Underground Manchester. The search for Lost waterways

[@roberthickman4092]

It's great that Murphy Surveys offered to help with this, I suspect that there is a huge amount of similar data that would be of historical interest which is just lost as never published.

[@francistheodorecatte]

Your lost waterways videos actually inspired me to investigate a lost waterway local to me here in Troy, NY. For my birthday last year, my sister got me a reprint of a map from 1852 of Troy. It showed a brook going right through my neighborhood... Turns out (after some research,) when my neighborhood was built in the 1870's (including my house,) there was a brook running through it that was covered with a brick culvert about 3' high, then backfilled mostly with iron slag from the Burden Ironworks. Given how if I dig more than a foot down in my back yard I pull up iron slag, and my section of the neighborhood floods rapidly during heavy rains, I think my house is built right over top of the brook! I think I know the general direction it goes in, since I could see air bubbles coming up out of the ground in a line during a flood this past summer. Topographically, it mostly lines up with the brook detailed in the map from 1852.

[@MartinZero]

Thats great. So pleased the video inspired you to uncover that history in your back yard. I bet not many people knew of that waterway ?

[@shaggyman5811]

Wow lol. Sounds like a job for a civil engineer. I'd be worried about sink holes and subsidence.

[@someotherdude]

The air bubbles during times of flooding convinces me. I think your hunch is right. I live near Bridgeport, CT and there are multiple covered brooks and rivers. I'm dying to check them out. Good, clean boy-style fun for this 56 year old. The environmental damage that is done when these brooks are covered over is huge, and it contributes to flooding downstream, because water flow is then unnaturally fast. Wildlife is cut off from the best (riverine) habitat. It's a shame.

[@katherinekinnaird4408]

How interesting. From Bakersfield California USA

[@patriciacollier128]

Wow, it is so interesting isn't it and interesting to hear your story too!

[@shiver_me_timbers]

Better than Star Wars, and unlike Star Wars I can't wait for the next episode. Excellent Martin!

[@MartinZero]

😀Thanks 😆👍

[@scottrowland7448]

Martin is the Last Mancunian?

[@MartinZero]

@@scottrowland7448 😆

[@scottrowland7448]

@@MartinZero but with a better story that doesn't break canon! Keep up the good, essential work

[@ronr.53400]

ahhh yessss Captain Kirk giving his analysis of the journeys day .. as Spock hides in a doorway pondering a mistress 😚 👍

[@ianjames1179]

Better than any Agatha Christie, I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. Brilliant film making Martin.

[@berndpetak]

Hello Martin. You ask about the "dam" near 30:00. That construction looks like a fairly standard "combined system" overflow point. Many cities including Vienna (very old) and Vancouver (very new) have combined sewage and storm drain systems. The intent is for each system to be separate, but to back the other up in the case of heavy flow in one. Dams like the one you have here are intended to allow fluid from one system to spill into the other when the level of fluid gets high enough on one side of the dam, and in reverse as well. The objective is obviously to not have to construct BOTH systems to handle extreme situations as long as the combined system can handle any expected load. It's penny pinching...smaller tunnels are cheaper. Any two systems can be "combined" like this, as long as the products they transport are compatible. This could include canal water and storm drain water, sewage and storm drain water, or any other combination of things that flow underground. Yes, you probably guessed it, "combined" systems are potential problems, which can result in normally harmless storm drains suddenly spewing sewer effluent, and any number of other interesting prospects.

[@holdfast7657]

You are correct. I believe that there would be a sewage system on the other side and as you say this would have an overflow outlet to this dam. I think that it is no longer in operation as nowadays we do not like our sewage poring into storm water / freshwater. More than likely sometime in the past it was blocked up.

[@blahfasel2000]

An alternative might be that it is an underground retention basin, as it is right at the point where the tunnel cross section reduces considerably. I'm no expert, however I know of an underground river in my home town where they have been renovating and replacing the tunnel over the last few years. It mostly runs along streets, so they could open up the whole thing and basically build a new tunnel on top of the old one, however there was one section where they decided not to use an open method as the street there is lined by hundred year old trees that they would have needed to remove completely, instead they chose a method where they put a fiberglass liner into the existing tunnel (I heard somewhere that this method was actually used here for the first time, can't really confirm that though). However, this meant that the cross section was reduced, and thus they had to construct two new underground basins to buffer peak flow during heavy rain. There were some pre-existing retention basins as well, and I found it quite interesting how you can completely hide such large structures in the middle of a city (one is for example beneath a multistorey car park, and I walked along there every day without ever noticing it until I read about it in some newspaper article about the tunnel renovation). The renovation was quite a feat, here is a short video (in German, but I think you can understand the animations without understanding the text) about it (it was produced during the planning stage, so unfortunately no pictures from the actual work being done): www.bielefeld.de/ftp/videos/luttersanierung/luttersanierung.mp4 What's neat is that they decided to partially open up the river in some stretches. While most of the water will still run in the underground tunnel, there will be a small open stream running along the streets. Other parts that were already opened up in a similar fashion a few years back can be seen in the video I linked. Another interesting thing is that they found remnants of the old medieval city walls when they were digging a new tunnel beneath a busy intersection.

[@rasungod0]

@@blahfasel2000 When I hear German, Dutch or the Nordic languages spoken aloud It is almost like I should understand it because it sounds similar to English. Cool video though.

[@katherinekinnaird4408]

This is quite intriguing I live in the United States and a town called Bakersfield in California and we have a lot of waterways that have been covered up and lost over the years this used to be a swamp hundred years ago I just love your videos keep them coming God bless you all

[@AlisonBryen]

I'm a complete river nerd! I'm so glad to have found this channel!!!!!

[@MartinZero]

That makes two of us and thank you 😃

[@grendelgrendelsson5493]

That was bloody fascinating mate. I don't know why seven people have given it a thumbs down. They probably have the attention span of a gnat.

[@MartinZero]

😆Thank you 👍

[@thrand6760]

Martin i am from Lees in Oldham, a part where the River Medlock runs past an old pub called the bridge, but is now a DIY store, ive done a few surveys on that part of the Medlock, and the water itself is almost crystal clear, and shockingly in that area within the valley between Salem and Alt , it has an almost neutral PH. would you be interested in meeting up some time and having a bit of an explore along the earlier stages of the medlock down from strinesdale through to alt, my Grandad, used to work as a builder on all the factories in that area, and has an extensive knowledge of lees as its where my family has always been, my grandad feels it very important to pass down his local knowledge Lees

[@jayh9529]

Shaun Dalton that looks like a no to me

[@thrand6760]

@@jayh9529 guess so :D the saying goes though dont ask you dont get

[@jayh9529]

Free R kelly beep boop

[@mattlay]

I'm also from Lees, I'd love to see a video of where the Medlock rises in Strinesdale and following it's course through Lees

[@AndrewFree]

@martin zero did you not reply to this.....

[@timstephenson4520]

Dukes tunnel, now there`s something to look forward to!!!! Martin watching these videos in reverse order. still excellent to watch.

[@MartinZero]

Thank you Tim

[@owenrawlinson6482]

Very cool video indeed......maybe the best yet!

[@MartinZero]

Cheers Owen

[@mpstrgc112]

Fascinating stuff. Every time I get into this channel I remain glued to the spot.

[@brianobrien202]

Someone please give this guy a TV show development deal , it would be a great show

[@FinlessBryan]

I showed my Mum this video and she lived in Elvis St, Newton Heath and said the cellars along the street used to flood to the top step. She also really enjoyed the film. 👍

[@MartinZero]

Great stuff thanks 👍

[@ianflint4610]

Fascinating journey. Has anyone mapped out a radius of 64 and 144m from the manhole in Sackville Gardens.?Heading off that distance in the indicated direction (if that's the way it goes) for the 600mm section will give some idea of the potential location of the second manhole and the point at which the newer drainage cuts across. If as it seems the 600mm pipe is more or less straight it would give some idea of the approximate location of both. The direction indicated is towards Sackville Street south of Whitworth Street and away from where Dukes Tunnel where emerges into the Medlock but the newer drainage channel then heads back NW towards Dukes Tunnel. The manhole at 64m isn't even as far as Bombay Street. That said, if it were that simply surely the two locations would have bee found by now.

[@jordandeasy5214]

Just brilliant mate. I'll be eyeing up all the Man-hole covers now everytime I walk round there!... What a fascinating job it must be working for the survey guys

[@MartinZero]

Thanks Jordan. Yeah they do have an interesting job, all underground stuff

[@Helen-sound]

In the late 70’s I was at Manchester poly . We went to Juicy street with station approach on the right and a building on the corner . Behind that building I sat for hours doing plate etchings of the lock gate to the canal . I presume what your saying is it’s been built over now . Later in 1983 I joined granada tv and at the back of studio 12 in the old building it’s still there .There is an entrance down to the canal with steps down which will still be accessible. I’m sure that’s Shuters brook . If you look from the gardens towards the old granada building , the left corner is the back of studio 12.. I hope this helps . If you need more info on how to get in just let me know.

[@garyfisher7366]

What a welcome discovery during lockdown 3.0! Fascinating stuff. I arrived here from researching my family in Manchester >then> Manchester areas and their names >then> the lost rivers. Thank you so much!

[@stewriley1183]

Yet another great video, only stumbled on your channel a few weeks ago but managed to watch about 50% of your films up to now and thoroughly enjoyed every one. 'Thumbs up' to Murphys and Andy for allowing the use of their knowledge and footage. That would have been an expensive job funded by others so its great that it has been allowed to be shared and not just archived. Good bit of well deserved publicity for them as well.

[@MartinZero]

Hi Stew yeah very pleased they shared the info it was very unique and valuable. Thanks for subbing and watching 👍

[@philbrennan3342]

Great vlog, detailed & informed. I am really surprised that the vitrified clay culvert - dated circa 30 yrs (ish) old - had an undocumented route. What were Manchester city council doing - 'I'm off to the Hacienda so don't bother with paperwork - laters'!

[@AndyBilham]

I have watched a great many of your videos Martin, and find them all equally fascinating. This one however takes your excellent video journalism to a whole new level, and I love the fact that the conclusions are left hanging in the air. I really hope that you will continue to pursue this topic more in the future.

[@WailuaMark]

I'm astonished that the newer, or reconstructed, section of the tunnel wasn't documented in the city's records. If it is as recent as 30 years old, why wasn't it documented? Someone, obviously, had knowledge of this river to do the repairs. This is very interesting. Awesome video! Thanks!

[@ianr]

An absolute tour de force Martin, and that's not an exaggeration! Brilliant video, as I have said before your efforts are greatly appreciated.☺👍

[@MartinZero]

Thank you very much Ian

[@bobmather8814]

A water powered mill was built at the confluence of Shooters Brook and the Medlock, in 1750, by Messrs Gartside and Thackery near Garrett Hall, the site of which is now a pub called the Garrett. Initially it was a silk mill using Dutch Looms. a very early use of mechanical weaving. It failed as a silk mill and was converted to cotton. Hope this helps.

[@whiskeycook3323]

I accidentally found your videos. Absolutely love them and the history you give us from the other side of the ocean

[@nomdeplume798]

I was born in Manchester 64 years ago and have lived in the area ever since. I first started work on King Street in 1973 and every time I go into Town l see little bits of its past. Sadly though much of it is hidden and I think it would be nice if the council could open up some of the views rather than hiding them when development takes place.

[@shawnnielsen6699]

I am from the US. I absolutely love your videos. I love how you take interest in your town. Keep the videos coming. And I wish you the best success in your adventures.

[@johndickson5095]

In 1980 I worked in an office in Dominion House, (now a hotel). This on the corner of Whitworth Street and Princess Street. The road was closed from that junction heading towards Oxford Road for a considerable time because of the road collapsing. There was nothing below the remnants of the road for 20+metres. The cavern was the width of the road and more than 2metres deep. Everything in that had been under the road had washed away. This would be roughly on the line that you investigated. Maybe Manchester Direct Works or similar were responsible and might have some records.

[@Troubledsham]

Its amazing how these places are relatively modern(in scope of humankind) and yet still their lost/unknown. Shows just how little we know about history. Keep up the awesome work brother!

[@user-oh7iv3ij5x]

Wow!! Excellent footage. I came back. for this ten out of ten

[@anthony2806]

Well you started the ball in motion I'm sure we can get the answers this summer I work at pin mills in Manchester if you need a hand with anything I will be happy to help. I have a RC boat maybe put go pro and torch we can see 20+ meters in.

[@MartinZero]

Good idea. I think the levels are up at the moment but that would be great

[@MrJoeblowe69]

Another great video Martin. I would have thought that the water authority would have responsibility for maintenance in such places. They ought to be inspected regularly or decay could cause subsidence above. The rc boat in a previous post sounds doable.

[@MartinZero]

Thank you very much

[@jomays7280]

Brilliant Martin!👍 Using chrome maps 61 metres takes you to the manhole on whitworth st. 81 metres then gets you to what would of been start of Leamington St, where shooters was culverted over. Maybe it’s a sharp right turn into Dukes or the Princess St Victorian sewer from there. Hence the dead bricked up end, which would be basement for 61 whitworth where leamington once travelled. Makes sense. Right outside my office. 👍😄

[@MartinZero]

Bloody hell you've been doing some research there. I could do with finding those Manholes

[@jomays7280]

Haha, thanks. Brick wall at 30:00 looks to be a storm overflow weir. All fascinating. 😄👍

[@brianrobertson1105]

Just started wathcing this, Martin, and at 2:50 you can see the modern Dob Lane chapel behind you. The pinky cream building at the extreme right is what was once the Bulls Head pub on Oldham Road. That suffered a fire and has now been converted to flats. The chapel is closed. Obviously it is a replacement for a much earlier building which may well have been on the waste ground there. If you go back in time on Google Street view along Oldham Road, you can still see some of the gravestones for the chapel. I wonder where they and the bodies have gone?

[@MartinZero]

Ahh cheers Brian, so I could have been stood in a graveyard ?

[@brianrobertson1105]

@@MartinZero The burial ground seems to have been on the Oldham Road side of the chapel.

[@sputumtube]

Absolutely enthralling video. Again. I reckon there will come a day when your work will be neccessary viewing in historical education. Thanks for posting.

[@MartinZero]

Thanks Paul 👍

[@TheUrbanCollectiveWeFilmIt]

Il 2nd that pal!

[@pattyfarghaly1821]

Very true comment.

[@davewebster6945]

What a gripping vid Martin, I couldnt look away at all, you even stopped me finishin off me biscuit 😳 !!! nothin stops me eatin a biscuit, this did 🤗. I hope you can find out where that bricked up archway is and solve the whole mystery 🙂.

[@MartinZero]

Ha cheers Dave. Biscuit stopper 😃

[@Paul-pb3vq]

OMG what a fantastic video I felt like fast forwarding the film but I didn't . You have got to work with Murphy's again just imagine what things they survey . Can't wait for the next one Martin . It's better than Time Team .

[@MartinZero]

Thanks Paul. I have asked to work with them again 👍

[@caahacky]

Great video Martin. It's baffling to think that no records exist for such recent constructions like the piped tunnel under Sackville gardens and the underground car park under India house - also that sculpture [glass manhole]. What is going on? Dis Murphy Surveys put dye down? I'm sure some potholers would relish exploring up that entrance at the Medlock. Keep us informed won't you. With all these subscribers somebody who has worked on these projects has to come forward. Cheers.

[@MartinZero]

Thank you. Stay tuned

[@alice215]

I love you channel. stumbled across one of your videos and got hooked. I have always found the waterways on old maps in my city interesting. sad that they got covered up by development. sometimes found by a sinkhole opening up and swallowing a car. Cheers from the USA

[@ianbigland4618]

Thanks, for that Martin,I now know more unanswered questions

[@MartinZero]

Cheers Ian

[@martinkavanagh196]

Fascinating stuff. You are a master of your craft .. and Murphy Surveys are valuable professionals eh.

[@MartinZero]

Thanks Martin. Yep it was great info they offered

[@Dwaine-ej7nm]

Great video couldn't you put an alarm on the buggy and set it off when it gets to the arch to see if they can here it at the other side 👍

[@Steve_Wardley_G6JEF]

Another fantastic social history video Martin and well done to Andy and Murphy's for sharing their information. I can see a trend developing here for your videos gaining the Q dos that people in authority are recognising. Bring it on.

[@MartinZero]

Hopefully Steve, nice to get opportunities 👍

[@paulgrimshaw6301]

Fascinating. Just the idea that there are manholes with no known record of what they access is intriguing. But it's also puzzling that the survey company had no way to locate their robot camera, especially when it is underneath a manhole where it must surely be possible to get a signal to the surface that could be located. As for locating where the stream enters the river, isn't the way of doing this to put a dye in the stream water? Also could it be when the river silted up that the original stream entrance was blocked and so they diverted it to the right into Duke's tunnel, hence the sudden direction change and blocked arch? As you say - so many questions left unanswered!

[@MrLargePig]

Couldn't stand it any more, had to subscribe! Never been to Manchester, hell, never been to the UK, though I feel I'll always recognize the accent, thanks to you, Martin. Fascinating video- now, all you need is a robot and a damn long coil of wire...

[@MartinZero]

Hello thank you very much for subscribing. Yep a Robot and some string 😀You should come and visit Manchester 👍

[@MrLargePig]

Someday, @@MartinZero.

[@helenferris575]

Greetings, Martin. Thank you for another of your always interesting videos. I've been bingeing on them. That round, inscribed non-manhole cover fascinates me. There's no way that poetic, whimsical verbiage was off the cuff. Plus, that thing would not have been cheap with or without the inscription. Someone, somewhere, knows the origins of it. (At the very least an invoice would have been issued, then paid.) Even if that sphere was meant to be a practical joke on people in the future, you know, which turned out to be the year when the geospatial experts came across it. ... Has GPS ever been useful to you and/or those devoted geospatial engineers? ... Keep well.

[@josedasilva8924]

Bloody fantastic video. This is the real Discovery channel !

[@CXensation]

Very interesting video I have to say. But sort of a cliff hanger also ... But ok, you warned us that this video wouldnt bring final answers to the whereabout of the lost tunnel and Shooters brook. Have I overlooked a part 2 on this video ... ? If not, it would defo be worth the effort going underground and shoot some more muddy footage for us. Thanks a lot for sharing this, keep up your valuable work ! I'd say your railway and water channel videos on the Manchester area are a highly valuable historic documentation contribution to the area. Some local authorities should try support you IMHO.

[@MartinZero]

Thank you very much. I never dis a part 2. We drew a blank

[@castlejunction1707]

Still playing catch up as I am a recent subscriber.....a fascinating and enthralling video.....lost for word really and having watched this twice still find wanting more.....thanks for posting......

[@MartinZero]

Thank you, very much appreciated, 👍

[@ahaveland]

06:19 Tempting to get a drysuit on and go in to Duke's Tunnel to explore, and also try to dig out the silt to make room and sift for artefacts.

[@xr2irs1800]

I loved the video there brilliant documentaries you need to become a TV presenter the way you put things across and the sound of your voice is just perfect and you leave us wanting more. Keep up the good work I'm really looking forward to the next one, thanks for sharing the videos much appreciated

[@MartinZero]

Thank you very much. 😀👍

[@Stop..carry-on]

Totally agree , I’ve been watching martins backlog of videos , one of my favourite KZbin channels

[@mattwestuk1]

Excellent video as always! I have to know, what piece of music is used in the opening? It's amazing.

[@andypeoples7636]

Amazing Martin. Didn't realise all this was beneath Manchester. Great videos and love your channel. 😀

[@MartinZero]

Cheers Andy, all that underground 👍

[@paulgriffiths8488]

Amazing and better than anything on TV!

[@MartinZero]

Thanks Paul

[@martinpiggins5772]

Well done Martin, great work fella. I’m almost inspired enough to start my own channel covering bygone Leicester. Really impressed with the old railway stuff as I do the same sort of snooping and exploration walking in a different time surrounded by nature taking over, what an industrious people we once were, also really loved the Lowry connections you did, I think we must see things very similarly as I can see the genuine excitement when you know you’re onto something and want to get the significance of it accross....... I do it all the time with the missus, I can’t help myself lol. Can’t wait for the next one, all the best👍

[@MartinZero]

Thanks very much Martin. If you go out doing similar you should youtube it, Surprising how much people are interested 👍

[@SD1fruitbat]

I took the quoted segment from the 'manhole' on London Road, and fed it into Google. That linked to page 93 of the book "Public Sculpture of Greater Manchester" by Terry Wyke with Harry Cocks. It turns out that your 'manhole' is actually part of a sculpture called 'Journey' which was commissioned by the Central Manchester Development Corporation (1988 - 1996) and produced by Partnership Art and pupils of Shena Simon College. Unfortunately nothing to do with Dukes Tunnel. Many thanks for the excellent video.

[@MartinZero]

Thank you, yes I did the same, its a great little poem

[@Themancs979]

Awesome again Martin. Every video is a snippet of times gone by, tinged with the sadness of modern progress “invading” the original structure of things. Another great video none the less.

[@MartinZero]

Thanks Steve, could not have put it better myself

[@andrewschmitz9707]

I would love to find out more about the story,we all are now familiar with Duke's Tunnel. Maybe by the time I reach Manchester this fall the big reveal !!

[@kennethainsworth1716]

Another success thanks to you and Murpheys Surveys. When you reach the brick wall at 140 mts from Sackville Gardens, isn't the remote operated vehicle fitted with GPS then you would know exactly where you are. Also how about some volunteers from Murpheys and attempt to make an exploratory start of Dukes Tunnel from the Medlock itself. Probably best done in Summer when water level in Medlock is low. Something to think about and make plans for. Could be feathers in yours and Murpheys caps. Take care. K.

[@difflockengage9228]

Too deep to send/receive radio signals. The robot is remotely controlled but with with a long cable, not radio control.

[@nbtmx1]

Wonder if you could have a half circle mounted on the rear of the robot directly under the cable with a camera mounted above it. Have the cable at the start be a dead centre of the arc meaning 90degrees as it is going along as the cable moves side to side you could then figure which direction you are going.

[@roberthickman4092]

could also do that with accelerometer and gyro.

[@danieltoth-nagy5097]

Finally I got time to watch this video all the way and I can't find words. And I can't express how much I'd like to go down deep or at least sending down a camera to find, explore and map it out. Other thing I'm wondering about is the construction of these tunnels. There are 150-200 years old tunnels with very few or completely no maintenance and they still there and working properly. This shows a lot of the power of Georgian and Victorian architecture. They built it for the eternity? But what happens if one collapses, could it cause a landslide up there or damage to a building?

[@MartinZero]

Yeah it is incredible how they have lasted

[@anneforster510]

Brilliant video Martin. You have surpassed yourself. Seriously interesting all this underground exploration. Great help from Murphy's 👍👍The round grid thing near the station..someone somewhere will have the answer or clues. Your following is increasing so you never know who is watching and they just might get in touch. The only downside is now having to wait for the next video 😢 Loved the music too ,very atmospheric. 💖💖

[@MartinZero]

Thanks Anne. It did mention Sheena Simon college on the round glass thing

[@geoffreykail9129]

Have you tried, on your city map casting an arc in the direction you think the tunnel goes and go into that area and look for the first man hole. Then cast two arcs from the end of two ends of the first arc in the estimated direction ( based on how sharp the angle was in the man hole) and look in the areas of those second set of arcs. The length of the radius of the arc is based on the measured distance the robot traveled. Granted this is rough but may be useful in your search for the two manholes. Getting more and more intrigued in your site, have subscribed. A friend in California.

[@MartinZero]

Hello Geoffrey, thanks for subscribing. No I havent tried any of that. Good thinking though my friend 👍

[@sharonstuebi8181]

Your KILLING me with suspense! I burnt my ham steak and sweet potato and my peas went cold. I was mezmerized. Omg ! Im truly addicted to your channel ! Breathlessly anticipating another, from a rainy night in Peru

[@WarHawk-]

A most fascinating exploration. It is a shame that money cannot be found to clean out the different canals and tunnels. Think what artifacts could be found.

[@haroldhorseposture9435]

Martin, Good morning, Sir! Just recently found your U-toob channel ,and it is absolutely top-class. I found it, strangely enough ,on the same day some pix were posted on a Facebook group I am in - "Manchester Victoria then and now"- had some images posted to it of Red Bank sidings. I had been wondering if the brick footbridge was still there,and was preparing to go and have a look. Then I saw your vids of the place. I was very pleased indeed,especially as you've explored the Cheetham Hill branch ,another I intended to investigate.Pleased,too , to see you found the base for the signal gantry ,that is very significant to me and a lot of my mates,for reasons various. I spent many happy days in that siding and shunter's cabin, on the Red Bank pilot ,and it was redolent with nostalgia for me. I have just retired after over 40 years as a train driver, and during my time I've been based at several sheds ,2 being Newton Heath and Vic. I REALLY get what you're about! Also ,back in the '80's ,Ihad the Ashworth book ,and did a very small amount of lost river malarkey ,nothing like the effort you've put in! It still fires me up now, as it does with "our kid". He's my twin and still works as a driver for Freightliner Intermodal at Crewe. I only retired to care for my missus ,who's had a bad run of luck with her health ,and she too, isvery impressed with your work, and she's not easily impressed, I can tell you! I recently watched your 45 minute Shooter's Brook vid,and if that is'nt a broadcast-ready bit of quality programming ,I don't know what is. Never apologise for inclusion of railway stuff ,although I'm biased! There's a lot of local interest in railways,and some of the tales I could tell....... most seemed to involve beer and/or skullduggery! Anyhoo ,keep on doing what you do ,my missus says you're due your own TV series, and I can't argue with that. All your work is superbly done. I particularly enjoy the drone footage. I have 5 of the damn things and dread losing any of 'em . Shame about your Mavic. Bet that smarts,eh? Woulda been nice to see a successful outcome to the magnet-fishing escapade, although it would likely never work again ,at least you'd have a memento ,and a reminder to engage brain before operating . As I often don't ,so who am I to comment!! Finally ,can I take slight issue with the gasometer in the "Mordor" vid? It has buggered up my Feng-Shuei something rotten ,I can not rid meself of the idea that the gasometer that was behind you ,the one still extant ,at the start ,is not the one in the aerial pic , as that one is ,or appears to be, on the North side of the Phillip's Park/Ashburys freight branch . I accept I could be mistaken ,if so ,I need to sort this out in my head for the sake of said "chop suey"! In conclusion,award yourself a beer or coffee ,for services to intelligent programming. Great stuff ,indeed. Nigel Hebblethwaite.

[@MartinZero]

NIgel thanks very much for your comment and kind words. please send my regards to your wife. The Gasometer in 'Mordor' is not the Gasometer from the drone footage. They are close together as you will see on google earth but the one I droned was at the bottom of Briscoe Lane. Hope that helps. thanks again

[@haroldhorseposture9435]

Hi, Martin! Thanx for the recent posts ,I admire your determination to get out in all weathers. Really enjoyed the Bloom street powerstation one, never even knew it was there. Had noticed the footbridge from Whitworth street many years ago , but never thought anything of it . Just have to say ,I've sorted out the perspective of the gasometers in the Mordor vid ,so I can sleep at night without cold sweats! I will have to go and have a peep at that powerstation, will combine it with a peruse of the central library , and a gawp in the Refuge Assurance building, assuming I can get Her Ladyship's wheelchair around these places. Top work again! Nigel the Heb.

[@MartinZero]

@@haroldhorseposture9435 Thanks mate enjoy your tour. Am sure you will get in the Refuge, have lunch in there

[@BLINDEXPLORERASIFMUHAMMAD]

Very amazing video well done and I love listening to your videos

[@MartinZero]

Thanks a lot mate

[@BLINDEXPLORERASIFMUHAMMAD]

@@MartinZero you are most welcome mate

[@johnharvey1985]

Great that one Martin. So surprising how there are no records for the works that have gone on, some maybe only 30 years ago, as ever someone somewhere knows, but finding them??

[@MartinZero]

All a bit of a mystery John

[@MsStevieWoo]

Oh my, noooo, more mystery.......... If urban exploring videos could do cliffhangers this would be the one to do it. Another excellent piece Martin - thank you ;)

[@MartinZero]

Thanks Stevie, so many questions 😀

[@MsStevieWoo]

This videos has really sparked a curiosity for using FPV tech to traverse that tunnel 😝👌

[@DavidWoods-rk8st]

Like what you said in the beginning that ppl were tipping their ashes into the Medlock as well as dukes tunnel plus silt

[@mikemarren4231]

Epic mate , so fascinating to see what lies bellow the streets

[@MartinZero]

Cheers Mike

[@GgZoo-iK3to]

Especially in UK

[@morethan4mph]

Not quite sure what brought me to your channel but it is riveting stuff! I will definitely be back for more. I have canoed around canals in Manchester and am always wondering about the bricked up openings and the links to other waterways.

[@MartinZero]

Hello thanks. I would love to get a canoe

[@patrickmccarthy5462]

​@@MartinZero Did you get one?

[@MartinZero]

No

[@patrickmccarthy5462]

@MartinZero Ask Santa for one and be good, because he knows.

[@clagfest]

You do realise you're keeping me up late, when I'm on early shift tomorrow 🤣 Another fantastic piece of work. Simply superb.

[@MartinZero]

Thanks very much. Sorry, get to bed 😆

[@laincathy]

hi martin a way you could look into the tunnels is a remote control boat with cam fix in place /just a thought

[@MartinZero]

Yeah be a good experiment that

[@NikEastwood161]

45mins went so quickly! awesome film and i reckon that a future mission in the vicinity wont be far off. amazing, and thanks.

[@MartinZero]

Cheers Nik. See what turns up eh 😃

[@markburns7641]

I used to work on Whitworth Street back in 1979 and remember the council digging a huge hole. As I remember there was clear running water at the bottom with pebbles in it. I would love to know what water course it was. It was very near to the Lamplight club as it was known as.

[@carolinebarnes6832]

This is really great, I'm enjoying these videos so much. I lived in Manchester in the mid '80s and remember reading a newspaper article back then about the aging infrastructure of Manchester and with so many of the plans and maps from Victorian times lost in the war no-one knows much about what is underground and roads were collapsing without warning and the resulting holes were measured in DDBs.....double decker bus. So a hole one DDB in size would swallow a double decker bus. Apparently holes of 2DDBs were not uncommon. Really this all sounds amazingly fanciful now, but I am sure I didn't dream it up.

[@titaniumman1493]

So close yet so far. Fascinating video. Thank you for sharing.

[@MartinZero]

Much appreciated 👍

[@mbaker335]

Those manhole access chambers are so massive they must be on a map somewhere. Possibly lost due to records going up in flames after bombing in the 1940s or maybe in a box file in a dusty, neglected corner of some archive. Everything had to be drawn so they must have existed at some stage with a good chance of being somewhere out there.

[@Raveneffect1989]

It's not impossible that some records still exist, however the building near the docks where records were stored as said above was bombed and then a separate fire in the 1950s destroyed even more of the records.

[@toyotadirtdevil]

If I was the survey company I would put a bright orange smoke grenade on the robot and set it off and see where the smoke comes out. They could station people in different areas and keep watch. They could send me down there. Build a creeper with 20" wheels that could ride on the sides of the tunnel in order to stay dry. Keep up with the great videos. Question, United or City?

[@MartinZero]

Thanks Michael, yeah I would love to go down there as well, be great to see Shooters brook. Am not really a football fan so the honest answer is, Niether

[@a40a40]

Great video. Surely if you draw an arc (140 metres?) from the manhole cover, onto a map, the manhole above that bricked up arch would be somewhere on the arc🤔

[@markwilliams6226]

Fantastic video Martin. I've only just discovered your channel and have spent any free time catching up with the rest. Being born and bred in Oldham I find your videos absolutely fascinating. Keep it up mate. Cheers

[@MartinZero]

Thanks very much Mark. I was born at the then Boundry Park hospital 😀

[@piratasdecordoba]

Never been to Manchester but that was damn interesting! Good job! :-)

[@MartinZero]

Thank you very much

[@craigrees3897]

You must come to Oxford and explore there are all sorts of tunnels and passages below the centre of the that have been forgotten about

[@craigrees3897]

I thought they had blocked that off with a grill at the Christchurch end of it

[@socklesslad]

This video was fascinating and frustrating in equal measure! Surely someone must be able to find out which direction the tunnel runs and where the manholes are.

[@MartinZero]

Thats the way I feel about it

[@paulanderson9072]

Bloody hell! What a brilliant video, thanks 👌🏻👍🏻

[@MartinZero]

Thanks Paul

[@Ali-7676]

I wonder if this may be of interest to you. There is a manhole cover at a slight angle to the street and to other manhole covers at the intersection of Witworth St and Sackville St. It says "City Centre Manchester" on it. There is another one, very similar to that one at the corner of Granby Row and Princess St. They line up pretty close to the route of Shooters Brook as shown on the Hidden Manchester Map, and the orientation of the covers line up toward Sackville Gardens. I wonder if 1. these are on the original route of Shooters Brook before it got diverted into Dukes Tunnel? and 2. If there is a similar manhole cover in the courtyard of the buildings hemmed in by Venice, Whitworth, and Ogden Streets? Thats what I could find by looking at Google Maps. Hopefully you can walk about and check it out someday.

[@smegitall1]

This has probably been answered already but the following is about the manhole public art installation in london road. “Journey”, for example, is a public art installation sited beneath the approach to Piccadilly Station on London Road in Manchester. Commissioned by the Manchester Central Development Corporation, the piece consists of three tall bronze relief panels and a pavement lighting feature. Diane Gorvin, Phil Bews, Terry Eaton and I worked with students from Shena Simon College to create the panels that were cast by Castle Fine Art Foundry. See the site Tracey Cartledge Artist at traceycartledge.wordpress.com/about-tracey-cartledge/

[@RustyWalker]

Additional: "Journey by Shena Simon College students near Piccadilly Station," "A street poetry tour of Manchester," Poetymology, Jul 13th, 2018. poetymology.com/2018/07/13/street-poetry-tour-manchester/

[@christopherescott6787]

These vids have become a fascinating source of history.The day I set foot your city, I'll be like a kid in a candy store. Thanks for your diligence and never ending creativity.

[@MartinZero]

Hello thanks very much. Don't leave it too long 😃👍

[@christopherescott6787]

Believe me, the sooner the better. Cheers mate.

[@chesterdrawers6414]

Another good job, I hope to meet you someday and tell you how much I appreciate your hard work.

[@MartinZero]

Thanks Chester. Depends if your in Manchester you could bump into me 👍

[@christopherjameslee3341]

Just one of an invaluable series of films relating to our industrial architectural heritage. Thank-you.

[@wideyxyz2271]

Scale map....scribe a circle (the distance the robot travelled to the first point of interest) from the manhole cover in the gardens to find the location of the blocked manhole cover then scribe another circle from here at the distance the robot travelled to the end of its run to find the location of the tee junction and the arch. You can work out the approximate direction of the brook and where the circle bisects this line you have the points of interest. Its worth a try. A good chance of finding the location of the blocked manhole/shaft! Just a thought....

[@MartinZero]

👍

[@Hvtesla]

I, and no doubt many others, have thought the same, you'd have to be lucky it's not built on though. I wonder if a radio sonde would have worked? - Quiet Sunday morning - two suspicious chaps with 120m odd of 3m fibre-glass drain rods with a sonde on the end - what could possibly go wrong (terrorist alert aside). But seriously, having done similar work locating Telecommunication ducts with sondes, almost certainly depth and the inevitable interference from overlying underground services, would be the enemy. OH and of course, usual quality video!

[@Lagrange_Point_6]

Great video. Great story. Loved it.

[@MartinZero]

Thanks Jim

[@paulwhittle4369]

Well, I came on You Tube looking for guitar tabs and one of your videos popped up! 2 hours later & 10 vids watched I’m hooked 😊 brilliant insight, excellent info and addictive. I’m now subbed!!!.........never found those tabs but hey who has time for that now? Cheers mate 😀😳😡😂

[@kohedunn]

Me too ! After months of British politics , this has been a welcome lifesaver back to sanity.... Someone out there watches over me , I'm convinced now...

[@andrewoconnor5108]

Brilliant and captivating video. Astonishing level of research and historical information. Thank you.

[@MartinZero]

Thank you Andrew

[@nedkelly4999]

Top vid, mate, loved it. You was only a few mins from my house at the beginning😁. I wondered what shooters brook looked like after one of your previous vids, crazy to think how old it it. I like to think that bricked up arch at the is where the kids used to swim under for coal. Would be cool to find out where those other manhole covers are along the way. Can see you worked hard on this. Good work, mate.

[@MartinZero]

Thanks Ned. Those other manholes will be there its that last one we want

[@nedkelly4999]

@@MartinZero would be nice if that robot thing had some sort of tracker on it. Maybe someone will watch this vid who does know where that last one is, i hope so.👍

[@barrycossins9027]

just facinating

[@MartinZero]

Thanks Barry

[@ExploringwithFighters]

Enjoyed this!

[@MartinZero]

Cheers guys 👍

[@paulstorer6937]

Really Fascinating Video wouldn’t it be good to break through that final wall. Is it me or do they look like Concrete Blocks that are blocking it off?

[@MartinZero]

Yes it would be good. Its only small I think its bricks

[@takethehighroad5027]

There are a couple of more direct canal interest, one that appears as a wharf just above lock 91 on the Rochdale which is actually an opened out tunnel that went from the Grocers Warehouse on the Bridgewater to their yard on Bridgewater Street, until the Rochdale was dug and cut through the tunnel. Another is Bank Top tunnel that was built to take water from the Ashton canal, to the River Medlock, before the Rochdale connected up to the Bridgewater. There were some claims at the time that it was built as a navigable sough but I doubt that. It was supposed to have been abandoned because it silted up but there is no evidence that that ever happened and it was rather unlikely that Egerton and his chief engineer Gilbert, would have allowed that to happen. The Bank Top tunnel was definitely built and used by the Bridgewater, again to serve a shaft up which coal boxes were lifted to a coal yard near what became London Road (PIccadilly) Station. A commemorative mug was produced illustrating the site, and there is also documentary evidence. There was a gate for boats in the Medlock weir above Castlefield. The tunnel subsequently may have become the route for water off the Ashton, though the canal's opening was tied in with the opening of the Rochdale locks in Manchester, which opened before the rest of the Lancashire section of that canal. In 1765, when the Duke of Bridgewater opened his canal from Worsley, the Manchester terminus was at Castlefields, almost a mile from the centre of the town. (It is important to remember that canals were built on cheaper land away from the centre of towns, and that this influenced the subsequent development of commercial operations) In order to bring coal closer to the town by boat, the River Medlock was made navigable up to a point near the junction of Princess and Whitworth Streets. (The passage in the weir above Castlefield is well documented and illustrated) From there a tunnel was dug in 1787 some 649 yards towards Piccadilly. At Shooters Brow, close to Piccadilly Station, there was a coal yard connected to the tunnel by a shaft. Coal was raised in baskets from boats by a winch. The tunnel closed around 1805 after the opening of the Rochdale Canal, the coal yard then being served by an arm from the canal. farm9.staticflickr.com/8191/8085469504_803b1ffbc1_z.jpg First of all, the coal yard that saw the termination of the Bank Top tunnel was not the Dukes yard, it was the wharf of Knowles and Son, colliery owners. It was situated in the Ashton Canal basin, the part later covered over by extensions to London Road (formerly Bank Top) station. It was not the yard served by the arm shown on your map, it would have been around that parcel of land numbered 297 (?) to the east of London Road. The Bridgewater terminated at Castlefield not because of the cheapness of the land (hardly a factor in those days) but because to have taken it further would have meant building locks and finding the water for those locks. The entrance to the tunnel to Bank Top can still be seen on the North bank of the Medlock at the rear of India House on Whitworth St. Only the top of the arch is above normal river level, which suggests that the river has silted up considerably in the last 200 years.I can't remember where I read about this tunnel but it was said that 2 boats of the "Starvationer" type were discovered just inside around 1880 when some civil engineering work , possibly for the construction of India House, was being carried out. As an aside, the aqueduct on the Ashton Canal at Store St was originally over the Shooter's brook, not a street. The brook is now below the street and still provides a conduit to take water from the Ashton Canal via the Meadow St trunk . This was used when the canal needed to be drained but also to prevent the Rochdale Canal Co receiving any surplus water from the Ashton. According to plans held by United Utilities it appears that the tunnel originally exited either under India House or under the not yet built Whitworth Street. The plans show an offset to the tunnel in the last fifteen or twenty yards before it enters the Medlock, the remainder of the tunnel being in a dead straight line. So yes, you could say that the present outlet is a rebuild but it was built to match the demands of the day rather than the original demands. There are now two tunnels on this line, and, historically, the confusion arises because Shooters Brook was covered shortly after the Duke built his tunnel, and subsequent discussions have often not differentiated between the two tunnels. There are several letters published in the press in the 1870s from which this confusion emerged. However, the Duke's estate records concerning the land purchased at Bank Top, state that: The Duke made an underground tunnel along the course of Shooters Brook in Manchester, to convey coal from his Canal at Manchester to Bank Top, Manchester. Contemporary maps show the coal yard as in existance prior to Shooters Brook being covered over. On the former, the Duke was short of miners as he did advertise outside of Lancashire for them, so perhaps did not employ that many building the tunnel, which was not the most important part of his canal development. On the latter, there was some suggestion that water from Shooters Brook was used to drive a water wheel for raising coal at Bank Top, though I have no definite archive material on this. If it did happen, or if the tunnel was used for water off the Ashton Canal, the flow would have been in the wrong direction to help loaded boats, so they relied instead upon legging. The coal wharf site circa 1785, before Shooters Brook had been covered over or the Rochdale or Ashton canals built. farm9.staticflickr.com/8464/8093668858_496d331988_c.jpg farm9.staticflickr.com/8050/8093669360_da42159d1a_c.jpg This shows Shooters Brook in 1854 after it had been covered over, with several 'eyes', or openings to the surface. Only one is shown on the Duke's tunnel, though there could be more, or it could be the only one besides the main shaft at the end of the tunnel. By this time, of course, the upper section of the tunnel could have been filled in or collapsed. Note that the Duke's tunnel level was below that of Shooters Brook. farm9.staticflickr.com/8465/8093689093_38d8d0c844_c.jpg The copies of the Duke's deeds for the Bank Top land show that this was purchased specifically as a terminus for the Duke's tunnel from the Medlock to Bank Top, and not for any other purpose. There are enough reports of boats being abandoned in the tunnel for them to be taken seriously, but that doesn't prove that the tunnel was built solely or even primarily for navigation. But that would have no effect on the tunnel, which was already in use for carrying coal. The Duke only had limited rights to water from the Medlock as there were existing water mills higher up the valley which would have needed taking into consideration. The Ashton would have used their water supply as a negotiating tool with the Duke, though they would need some way of loosing excess water coming down their canal into Manchester. The Duke's aim was to control all traffic between Manchester and Liverpool, so the narrow Ashton was not a problem as narrow boats could not work down the Mersey, so goods would have to be transhipped; a wide Rochdale Canal was. An agreement with the Duke could have been one reason for the second proposal for the Rochdale being for a narrow canal, though cost was another factor. The Rochdale looked at several different schemes in Manchester, including a link to the Mersey & Irwell, though the Bridgewater was in the way as an expensive tunnel would have been needed if the Bridgewater was to be avoided. They also had plans for a cheaper route to the south of Castlefield, but both they and the Duke must have realised that a junction was the logical solution. Permission was only granted by the Duke after it was agreed that he build and staff the final lock, no 92, on the Rochdale, and that a toll was paid by all boats passing, and that he had the right to all water off the Rochdale. When the waters of the Medlock became heavily polluted, a trunk was built from above lock 92 to beyond the stop lock at Hulme, providing clean water off the Rochdale for the main sector of the Bridgewater. Canal proprietors used a variety of stances during negotiations with other canals, often with detailed provisions required in their Acts. However, in general, they used the cheapest solution in practise, only using the provisions as a bargaining tool for future negotiations. Hence, the Ashton and Bridgewater may have used the use of the existing tunnel as a water route during negotiations with the Rochdale, but in practise surplus Ashton water would have passed onto the Rochdale and down to the Bridgewater that way. The Rochdale locks in Manchester were built with a smaller fall than other locks on the canal in order to reduce water usage in central Manchester. They realised that these locks would be heavily used, and made adjustments to meet the problem, without relying upon water from the Ashton. Bank Top was a proper tunnel, like Preston Brook etc. Very few have heard of Bank Top Tunnel, it extended the Bridgwater Canal from its junction with the Rochdale to a point near Piccadilly Gardens. Shooters Brook/Dukes Tunnel images imgur.com/a/f3iFGGJ

[@yankeeclipper4326]

Awesome info. Thanks for sharing

[@1dayfree]

Thanks so muckh for your incredibly fascinating post. I lived in Granby House on Granby row for many years in the 1990's - 2003 and was always fascinated by the medlock and the canal and tunnel systems around that area!

[@nohowfilms5905]

Fascinating video. With the distance travelled underground from Sackville Gardens, and the general direction known, could a radius not be drawn on Google Earth that might give hints to where the further manhole covers were?

[@MartinZero]

Yes possibly good idea