Martyn Green as Jack Point

[@MrRuplenas]

Regardless of the historical incorrectness, it is wonderful to see Martyn Green, without doubt the greatest of the G&S leads. As I get older it's sad to realize that there are fewer and fewer that remember him. Ave, atque, vale.

[@karldelavigne8134]

I met people who saw both Martyn Green and Sir Henry Lytton, and most considered Lytton greater. His voice didn't record well, however.

[@karldelavigne8134]

@@VinDakota Bravo! I got to know these older singers by hunting for old 78rpm records. It is so much easier now to KZbin them 😊

[@VinDakota]

@@karldelavigne8134 Yeah it is! The music is just fantastic, i've been learning some of the arrangements on my piano recently!

[@robertwhittaker5477]

@@karldelavigne8134 Henry Lytton followed very much in the tradition of George Grossmith in that his greatest strengths were in his innate comedic skill and his almost imcomparable stage presence. One of the invaluable qualities which Martyn Green brought to the comic baritone roles as his successor was that he was able to infuse into them - in addition - a profound sympathy with the audience and, when required, a pathos which greatly increased the depth of the character. Prior to his engagement, for example, 'Tit Willow' in 'Mikado' was performed simply as a comic song and entirely for laughs, with "Oh Willow, Tit Willow, Tit Willow" at the close of each verse being sung in falsetto [as is the case in, if I remember correctly, the 1917 recording.] Martyn Green treated it as a serious, if self-interested, attempt by Koko to engage the affections of Katisha and in so doing added an element of poingnancy to the dilemma in which both characters find themselves.

[@karldelavigne8134]

@@robertwhittaker5477 That is a very interesting observation and a good illustration of the difference in performance style between the two of them. Another example that comes to mind is the end of Yeomen, with Green depicting Jack Point "collapsing lifeless" and presumably dead of a broken heart, whereas Lytton collapsed but apparently wiggled his toes. I am sure both approaches worked, and perhaps the lyrics of Tit Willow lend themselves more to comedic than real pathos, but Green's acting brilliantly balanced the two.

[@jensenbaron]

The wonderful Martyn Green. The greatest of all the D'Oyly Carte comedians, his portrayal of Jack Point is and remains unsurpassed.

[@dimetronome]

I like John Cartier too, but this is probably the best.

[@ajessm]

The inimitable Martyn Green. His was such a sublime and moving performance. I have watched this little clip so many times. Martyn Green was the consumate artist and his performances are entrancing. I only hope that the movie becomes available on DVD soon.

[@glenndabreo3581]

I too memorized every line. I too ahd the Decca recordings. Imagine when I came to America getting the chance to work with Kenneth Sandford, the Pooh Bah and all the other roles he played, it was a dream come true.

[@robertwhittaker5477]

I agree completely with jensenbaron's comment below that Martyn Green was the greatest of all those who have had the privilege to be the principal comic baritone in the D'Oyly Carte Opera Company, although, when he first auditioned for even the most minor connection to the canon at the Savoy Theatre he was greeted by an officer of the Company who looked at his C.V. and said: "Ah yes. You are the young man who is appearing in a, ahem, 'musical'! Oh well, don't worry; - at least, not too much!" In the first run of 'Yeomen' George Grossmith, sadly, couldn't resist the fact that he was essentially a comedian, and it is said that one of the reasons why he left the Company so abruptly thereafter was that, rather than staying 'in role' during the curtain calls, he insisted in wiggling his toes and winking at the audience while prone on the stage. This quickly led to a very 'charged' interview with Gilbert, and the fact that Charles Workman followed him as Jack Point shortly thereafter.

[@ErnestSDavis1]

This is marvellous! By far the best 2 minutes of "Yeomen of the Guard" I've seen. The other Martyn Green clips here are also extremely fine.

[@ivelosthewilltolive]

I had all the G&S D'Oyly Carte recordings on London (Decca) and pretty much memorized them by the time I was 5.

[@SarahB1863]

I was a late bloomer. I didn't discover them until I was 10. Our grade school put on a show of various musicals and one class did excerpts from HMS Pinafore. I was hooked! I was probably the only 10-year-old in Ohio who had Pinafore, The Mikado, Iolanthe AND the Gondoliers memorized! And, my vocabulary was AMAZING.

[@kennethwayne6857]

@@SarahB1863 For me, it was when I was 17, but then I made up for lost time!

[@lskarin]

The film should still be available. Both are pretty good. In terms of production cost, the 1953 version takes a package (the D'Oyly Carte company) and incorporates it into a film. The Mike Leigh version (to me, the superior one), has actors develop the characters individually. Shirley Henderson was wonderful as the soprano with "...a little weakness." When the company folded, principal soprano Valerie Masterson went onto a career in French opera that has been regarded as unsurpassed.

[@begs54]

Martyn Green often said that this was his favorite role in the G&S repertoire.. In fact he makes mention of this in his book " Here's A Howdy Do My Life in Gilbert and Sullivan. That in 1938 or 1939 a production company was formed to film the G&S operas using the D'Oyly Carte. Yeoman was chosen for the first film but they went with the 1939 "The Mikado". More than likely because it had a marketable name to sell to the public. A real pity, as I would have been interested to see who they would have used besides Green and also getting to see Green's take on Jack Point

[@janehoskins1366]

Brilliantly performed

[@mehitabel1290]

So moving!

[@stepheneinbinder2604]

Yeomen is the only G&S play with a death, unless you count The Sorcerer, when John Wellington Wells makes himself disappear.

[@trinitymplayers]

The way Yeomen is performed usually yes. But the stage directions read "Point falls insensible", and that was how Grossmith, the original stage Point played it, with him waggling his toes and winking at the audience as if to assure them he was still alive. It should be noted however, that Grossmith was a long established comedian who probably felt his fans would never accept him as anything other than funny. It is also on record that Gilbert the authr himself, when informed that Henry Lytton was playing Point's fall on tour as a death scene, commented, "That's just what I want. Point should die, and the end of the opera should be tragedy". Interestingly though, he never altered the direction and the main production in London never portrayed Point's fall as a death in Gilbert's lifetime.

[@karldelavigne8134]

Interesting observation, if you accept that Jack Point goes beyond the stage direction. I think, however, that the threat of death is made in every Savoy opera.

[@Rollin_L]

@@trinitymplayers As I was reading through the comments, I had decided someone needed to tell the history of Jack Point's ending. But then I came to your post, and you have already stated it exactly as I would have. Well done. Martyn Green was Henry Lytton's understudy for many years, while doing other roles in the company before Sir Henry's retirement. I wonder how much of Lytton's Jack Point influenced Green's, given Lytton was the first to play the ending as a death scene. Green was certainly very innovative, and would have put his own stamp on each character. It was Green who changed the whole character of Tit Willow in The Mikado as well. If you listen to early versions, such as C.H. Workman's recording, Tit Willow is heard as a purely comic song. Green added the Pathos to it, which is now the standard interpretation. I never got to meet Green, who died one year before I saw my first D'Oyly Carte performances. But I later studied with a tenor who had spent years with Green, touring in America, and knew him well. Wish I had asked for more stories!

[@EVITANDY]

Hugely sentimental scene. Grossmith had left the company after YeomEn had ended its initial run, never to appear in Gondoliers, Utopia, or Grand Duke. So if YeomEn had been revived on the night Sullivan died, the role of Jack Point would have been played by Walter Passmore. Good film, though

[@occupiefilling]

yes. another bit of ahistorical fun. Martyn Green playing George Grossmith playing Passmore playing Point...

[@jamessheridan4306]

I call for a full photochemical restoration (picture AND sound). And while you're at it; the 1966 film of The Mikado as well. NOW!

[@karldelavigne8134]

And the 1939 Mikado. And I hope someone finds the TV broadcast of the D'Oyly Carte Patience from the mid-60s.

[@jamessheridan4306]

@@karldelavigne8134 There was a VHS of it; I don't know whether it's been issued on DVD.

[@karldelavigne8134]

@@jamessheridan4306 To the best of my knowledge, no one has yet found a copy of it. Are you confusing it with something else?

[@jamessheridan4306]

@@karldelavigne8134 Shortly after I left that comment I did manage to track down a DVD copy. It's from a company in New England. I forget the name.

[@karldelavigne8134]

@@jamessheridan4306 If you can find it again, it would be of great interest to a lot of people. I have only managed to find that there is an audio recording of it, apparently recorded privately from the original broadcast.

[@SarahB1863]

Does anybody remember the 'Yeoman of the Guard' that was shown on I think PBS in the early 1980s? It was part of a series that had well--known people in prominent roles. In the version of 'Yeoman' I saw (and still have on tape), Joel Grey played Jack Point and actually did a very good job! It's a very tough part but he pulled it off.

[@stuartandrews4344]

This: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d4jKpJVnfK9pe8k

[@MrZviswerd]

You are thinking of the George Walker video series of the G&S comic operas (plus Cox and Box). I had most of them on video cassettes. Generally, they were excellent productions in general.

[@jasonhurd4379]

The only Savoy opera with a sad ending.

[@PooBah891]

Where might one find this film? I do believe I would prefer this to Topsy Turvy

[@Th0ughtf0rce]

And Grossmith never killed his Jack Point.

[@jasonhurd4379]

Though Gilbert confirmed Point does in fact die at the end of the opera.

[@drewbakka5265]

@@jasonhurd4379 really? I know it depends on the director but I always thought he colapsed in sheer dispair. Still always brought a tear to my eyes

[@Th0ughtf0rce]

​​@@drewbakka5265Gilbert said it is up to the audience. Grossmith, great comedian that he was, raised his feet in the air and waggle them as if having a tantrum. Later performers preferred the heart attack ending. To me it's equally tragic to live seeing the love of your life snatched away.

[@N3RDYG0GGLES]

Okay as someone who's never seen this thing all the way through, did he just DIE?!

[@JoeLibby]

Yes. Jack Point dies at the end of the opera.

[@trinitymplayers]

Yes. From a broken heart. And as Martyn Green, who was playing the jester Jack Point here interpreted it, from a fatal heart attack as well.

[@drewbakka5265]

I remember first timw I saw yeoman blind. Expected the usual happy ending walked out feeling like crap for jack point. Honestly the best of the pairs work

[@brianappleby5112]

I actually think it’s open to interpretation. I believe the stage direction says ‘Jack Point collapses senseless’, or something like that, it doesn’t say he falls dead. The point being that he hasn’t eaten or drunk since he found out that he had lost Elsie. The personification of their opening song, ‘A Merryman and his maid’. So he dies of a heart attack which is the way that Martyn Green plays it,or a dead faint due to lack of sustenance?

[@KTbugDaddy]

The script reads: “[FAIRFAX embraces ELSIE as POINT falls insensible at their feet. CURTAIN

[@janehoskins1366]

John Redd is very good but not as deep as Martyn Green. Martyn Green is the better actor. See the Why and Wherefore.

[@occupiefilling]

Martyn Green seemed to be willing and able to delve deeper into each of his character s than any of the other pattermen. They seemed content to simply play the patterman. And we're discussing someone here who was not only a fine singing actor, but an agile creative comic dancer with his unsurpassed impeccable diction.

[@christophersargeant615]

Also consider John Cartier. He was always the understudy in D'Oyly Carte, but later got the chance in another company to play Jack Point.

[@wolliveryoutube]

Very true. Green was also a far better Lord Chancellor in Iolanthe. I think Reed’s best roles are as Ko-Ko in the Mikado and Bunthorne in Patience.