Master Set & Rational Speaker Placement How To For GREAT SOUNDSTAGE

[@drp1036]

This video was the last piece to the puzzle for me regarding soundstage and imaging. I didn't think slight changes in speaker position could affect soundstage - especially imaging - so greatly. But they do! Thank you!

[@ChadAV69]

Hey man. I’ve been practicing this method for a few days now and your video really helped me. Mainly with convincing me that moving the speaker a millimeter will affect the sound. My first couple of tries I got it close but I couldn’t get it perfect. Then last night I watched this video and gave it another try. I got it close then I started moving the speaker literally as little as possible. And it worked! It’s still not perfect but it’s definitely closer than it was before! It’s actually not hard to set up now that I understand that literally half a millimeter makes all the difference. And my speakers are just $200 Polk xt20’s. Oh, and one is in a corner and one is out in the open :D. Thanks man!

[@raj6338]

Thank you for all your time you put in this video. You’re very easy to understand which I appreciate. Thank you again

[@Mrch33ky]

Great video. I've moved around a lot and learned a lot about speaker positioning because of it. In order to get the best sound over the years I've had to customize the speakers to the room. My initial hi-fi purchase of Revel Performa M22's (86 db sens) that sounded so amazing in the tall open dealer show room never sounded that great in my tiny 12 x14 listening room at home despite endless repositioning. One day I moved into a larger house with a large and tall vaulted ceiling and bingo they became those magic speakers again. A lot of people make the mistake of buying a speaker that will never sound its best in their listening room. And then they try to compensate with a different amp or DAC or cables. Now I live in a tall, thin weirdly shaped Colorado condo and I find that small high efficiency speakers (90 db and above) sound best, and placement is key. It also depends what you are trying to achieve; one sweet spot of bliss or filling the whole house with bliss. The Revels certainly fill the whole structure but the neighbors do not appreciate it one bit. So all my floor standers are in storage until I get The Big Room again. But in the meantime my Mark Audio Tozzi One full range single driver kit speakers are killing me with tone that no floor stander can match. So it's all good and there's no one size fits all solution. :)

[@SONOFMYPARENTS]

Great video. In my opinion this setup should be the fundament of every audiophile setup. Would you be so nice and tell me how exactly did you do the toe in at the finish? Which spike stays fixed when you rotate the speaker? I have troubles with this last step, it somehow "ruins" the perfect bass and details which i achived with "precise gate closing" .

[@russellparker4568]

The real key to the whole process like you said it that 1-2mm on the “closing the gate” part. I thought you were being a bit over the top at first if im completely honest until i returned to my setup and re worked that final 10mm. Like you said the bass guitar becomes more present and detailed. I can see now why this track is recommended. Thanks for this video, your advice has helped really lock the whole sound into place. 👍🏻

[@michaelviers6461]

When you’re doing this, do you unplug the other speaker or have them both playing?

[@kevmichael2064]

This is so true...I love music 🎶...and working with sounds...I moved my sound bar to a shelf...in another part of the front room....it sounds like it is all over... like a Porch... with movies... The sound is great....I agree with U 💯 percent... where U put the speakers..makes a difference....even my TV sounds better than it did.. when I moved it to another place in the front room... very cool 😎

[@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120]

I know exactly what your talking about , I call it center synergy , Your on the right track though , I been an Audiophile for 32 years started at age 13, Back then I started constantly using walls and corners to make as much bass as i could lol But along the ways I constantly was tweaking speaker postionings . To me when i look at a room I see accoustic geometry in my head Lol But it would be easier for you if you didn't have high ceilings , but whats getting you mostly is you have alot of drivers to time alighn .A KEF or Dirty weekend speaker with one or 2 drivers you could pull off Center Synergy in your room . Thanks for the video sorry for the book i wrote lol

[@ericharrelson2045]

Outstanding video, thanks for providing so much detail. I've been trying this placement technique for several days using the Sumiko information and all I got was frustrated. I then found Bob Robbins video from RMAF and bought his pdf. Reading through it initially I was disappointed, because it lacked the details I was hoping for. Ah, but alas your detailed explanation filled in gaps. I'll let you know how it turns out.

[@davidtull2388]

thanks for your time. Well done

[@pablolubbert9739]

Hello, thanks for this video; when you start the process with left speaker against the wall, is the right speaker turned on also?

[@COGuyStuff]

Yes, it is

[@the-en]

What??? Puppy!!! Is that the cutest or what. BTW thank you so much for a great vdo

[@subramoniams9850]

Great video. Thanks for the tips. So cannot expect my Klipsch Heresy IIIs to do the same magic?

[@kaybhee6]

skip to 38.00.... listen to him.... few mins,,, now start from beginning .. speaks many truths... good work,,, what we found too

[@verdeazul333]

Is someone obsessed with your cigar, sir?😊

[@mattgiunt]

fantastic--thanks for this. As a 707 owner I am stoked

[@bernhardmichaelfux308]

As the Puppy grabbed the cables, i was just about to shout: "Hey, dude! watch your dog, he`s eating your new cables lol...!"

[@Phil_f8andbethere]

Many thanks for putting this excellent video together. I only discovered this method after searching for and reading a lot of articles on acoustics. This one sounds like as you say - a simple but involved process. I'm gonna give it a go once wife is out for the day and see if I can get somewhere near. Kind Regards, Phil

[@kennethbolhuis7265]

When setting up the anchor speaker, (the first one). Should i listen to only that one? I can for instance set the balance completely to one side. Or unplug the other speaker.

[@musicforfun5350]

I'm not sure when or if you will see this but I was curious about what you said regarding tone controls. Do you mean that the bass & treble need to be dialed down to zero before starting the process? I don't recall bob Robbins mentioning that ( I will go back and watch him again) and the Sumiko website info doesn't mention that ether. Just wondering. Thanks. Great video.

[@ZERO-CAPACITANCE]

This video is excellent. Regarding its content, please shoot a video of the physical adjustments and re-post.

[@46wireboy]

Just subbed. Great vids and thank you. I'm about where you are with my sound using the same method, except I skipped most of it because I'm lazy. I'm lacking that last ability to walk around the room and get the same sound, but I have a huge sound stage. it's holographic and I hear the acoustics of the venues. It's as if every song has had reverb(much cleaner of course) added to the cut. I've gotta get off my butt and do it right. My speakers are tilted way back but I have not WAF to worry about, so it's cool. I saw the vid you mentioned but I knew nothing about the Master Set, so thank you for that.

[@pauls2099]

I know this is an old video and you may not see this but when you say the image will get like a center channel speaker and then get breathy when you change toe in which one is optimal?

[@TheRacingSlick]

Hello, thanks a lot for doing this, I'm struggling since months... Can you please clarify this: you move the speakers millimeters, you lock it in, but then when you start toeing in, you inadvertently have to move millimeters again, how do you compensate?

[@COGuyStuff]

I don’t have that issue. When I toe in I pivot just on the front inside foot.

[@TheRacingSlick]

@@COGuyStuff cool thanks, I can do the same as I have a 3 legged stand. By the way, if I start counting the bass notes from start, should all those be the same volume? For me 5-7-8 gets louder

[@TheRacingSlick]

To me notes 5-7-8 feel more like a punch than the others, for which I feel and hear the plucking

[@AdidaStripes]

A few things... Clover is the cutest thing ever. I thought that was a plate of nachos in the thumbnail Looking thin and trim my man!!

[@COGuyStuff]

Thanks!

[@massimoo1]

Hi and thanks for the great video. I’ve done the set up as instructed for couple of times, now got decent results. But I was blown away with the sound when I sat on the floor by coincidence and the stage and the depth grew double. How can I raise the stage from the floor to my normal listening position ?

[@COGuyStuff]

Stands or the rake

[@massimoo1]

@@COGuyStuff with B&W 803 Diamond stands are no go :). Tried to rake with coffee coasters sound became thin. Any suggestions?

[@COGuyStuff]

There are stands with adjustment for towers

[@LeonFleisherFan]

Great presentation and video. Those marks at the beginning for distance from the front wall, do you remember how far apart they were? I'd also be curious it there was a pattern to those distances.

[@thinkIndependent2024]

Done this multiple times now my speakers on 2 of my 3 systems the 3rd system is Polk Reference SDA with a DAC and modern equipment it produces a clean wide image with the speaker flat on the wall

[@RacingChampGamer]

What brand name are ur towers mine is soundstage tell me more

[@bobtheauditor08]

Another great video! The magic you describe, is there a certain headphone that has those characteristics, that you are trying to do with the speaker positioning? I ask for a reference point when setting up my room. Are you in the Tampa area?

[@COGuyStuff]

It has nothing to do with headphones. Yes in the area

[@jmax6614]

I did this with my wife in the room and she thinks I'm nuts 😂

[@Max-lk3pl]

1 mm steps....i thought i was weird; :) Thx for the advices

[@bernhardmichaelfux308]

Speaker positioning is sometimes such a complicated thing. I am so glad that I don`t need to do this lol. My listening room is so small, it`s just like I sit in an headphone lol. I am just laying 1.5 meter away from my speakers, and they are 1.5meter apart (Centerline to centerline) And my room is so stuffed with crap, I also don`t need Bass traps or diffusers. I have no flat surface nowhere near the Speakers...The only thing is that I am laying sidewise to the soundstage. So, if I want to listen really audiophile-pro-like to my favorite music, I have to sit up! But, believe it or not, I have a good soundstage even if I am laying! This is strange also to me, but it is so... Bytheway-my loudspeakers are huge 4341 JBL-Clones. They were my last masterpiece in DIY on my audio-gear and a true success! And one day, I have it on my bucket list, there will stand a piece of JBL Paragon in my listening room. After this a can die satisfied ;-)

[@brunorivademar5356]

I really hope you read this! I'm about to try the Master Set but I've got a problem. Right behind the left speaker is a staircase which wont allow me to place itless than 2 and a half feet from the front wall. I know it's going to be different distances depending on room and speaker but I was wondering how far away from the walls are yours??

[@COGuyStuff]

Every setup is different, it doesn’t matter at all what others are

[@brunorivademar5356]

CO Guy Stuff Allright then. Keeping my fingers crossed! I'll let you know if I pull it off and thank you for the response.

[@jqcbigdog]

I actually try to reposition the speakers just a hair buy Towing the towers in and they did make a difference good point and good catch on that suggestion

[@jqcbigdog]

Typos @_@

[@mattgiunt]

Got amazing results with a first attempt.(will do it again) Did you run YPAO after you did master set? My receiver dropped volume level on all 7 speakers down 7 and 8 points.Forces me to up my listening volume level from a -25 to about -18. I realize Master set is for music but it had this effect on 5.1.2 setup. Will watch a film tonight to see what its like with new settings.

[@COGuyStuff]

You did something wrong then. Ypao sets levels against the first speaker tested, which should always be 0 level in the results. Make sure you are placing your mic correctly, facing up, with no obstructions. Yes I run it, but set it to Front so there is no eq used and the other speakers are set to match my front.

[@COGuyStuff]

Or you have your sub way too low. Your gain must be set during testing so it ends up nearest 0 in the receiver. Then turn up to taste when done.

[@mattgiunt]

@@COGuyStuff I also set it to front with the Polks. Ill try it again. What your saying is what I usually get from YPAO but after setting my speakers to this Master set I got fronts at -7 . Ill try again. thanks for your help

[@mattgiunt]

@@COGuyStuff Thanks, my sub was set to low level I listen to it at in night viewing.

[@COGuyStuff]

The sub gain must always be reset during testing.

[@danmaclean1169]

Possibly dumb question.....When you start in on the first speaker, is there sound coming from both speakers or only one? It isn't mentioned so I'll pretend to be from Missouri! thx

[@COGuyStuff]

both

[@danmaclean1169]

@@COGuyStuff Thanks a lot appreciate your efforts 👍

[@db029936]

You have to do what I did.,comandeer the garage. They have perfect symmetry

[@ThatLoudF-150]

after a few hours I'm regretting buying 185 pound floor standers 😂

[@shadowmosesisland2255]

Where is the pivot point when you do the-toe in? And how do you not mess up your millimeter precision you worked on in de previous steps ?

[@COGuyStuff]

Front inner foot. Tilting on two feet doesn’t move them.

[@gregski4111]

One would assume that ihe center of the speaker drivers plane would be fixed and you would rotate the speaker around that point.

[@RogerBergqvist]

My speaker setup rule: If it sounds good from bass up to treble, it is job well done. Some "toe in" and a bit of forward and backward until i find the right place for the loudspeaker. Every room is different.

[@barneyjones5174]

Where possible, if setting up a new room, first work on room acoustics with absorption, diffusion, wool rugs, bass traps. Get the room right so you know what speakers are appropriate. You don't want to overload the room, it needs to be able to handle the speakers. For a furnished room with existing speakers, not a couple of hours but 2 or 3 days of careful listening and positioning of speakers. Take the time, it's worth it.

[@Waitaminutesilly]

When setting position of each speaker, are both speakers connected to amp? Or is the only one speaker, which is being positioned connected to the amp?

[@COGuyStuff]

Both are always playing

[@huachalomogamer7517]

Oh, man! I truly felt you when mentioning the wife factor at kzbin.info/www/bejne/oZu8hXqMZbGAmdU. That's probably the hardest barrier to reaching speaker placement perfection. 😅🤷‍♂

[@si1208]

... and adequate room treatment

[@jasonburns6411]

Looking lean BG!

[@thinkIndependent2024]

I've done it it can work

[@kellyj5389]

Looks great

[@COGuyStuff]

This will show you how to go through the Master Set speaker positioning system and the Art Of Rational Speaker Placement by Bob Robbins. Setting the placement of your speakers in a stereo setup is the most crucial thing you can possibly do, it effects everything else to a very large degree. The goal of this setup, when done in the right room with the right speakers, is to present a space-locked center stereo image no matter where you are in a room, regardless of the sweetspot. Bob says it's rare so don't expect it. But you CAN expect a phenomenal soundstage with greater clarity, texture and hopefully depth to your sound - when you are done. Bob offers a $50 PDF of detailed instructions that more importantly also comes with personal phone/email support on his website MySpeakerSetup.com which came in very handy during my time with it and was well worth it for answering specific questions along the way. Products List: www.amazon.com/shop/cigarobsession CO Fans Group: facebook.com/groups/cigarobsession Top 3 Best Cigar Starter Sets $50 $135 $240: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5LXdqxvn89qb5o CO Fans Group: facebook.com/groups/cigarobsession/ cigarobsession.com instagram.com/cigarobsession/ TwoWheelObsession.com My other channels: TwoWheelObsession: kzbin.info kzbin.info Don't forget to comment, rate me a thumbs up and subscribe! Some background music by www.ichillmusic.com #homerenovation #ikea #home #guystuff #coguystuff

[@alexanderrobinson7499]

I kinda wanna sneak over and move both speaker a half inch.

[@COGuyStuff]

son of a...

[@1byte4]

Starting over with volume up

[@GatesRapes]

Could you ever have too big of speakers for a room ?

[@johto]

Toe angle alone should not affect the bass, its mostly omni directional

[@COGuyStuff]

LOL a common myth from the likes of old BOSE commercials ;) Sound wraps around the back of every speaker and interacts with whatever is behind it. If you had experience you would know this.

[@jeffgrayson7639]

You say wide and narrow without giving measurements.

[@parabalateralus]

woulda thought thats what the dsp on your amp was for...

[@COGuyStuff]

Partially. DSP can correct for a lot of things, but when you get it right physically first, it takes it to another level. You can’t get a wider sweet spot from dsp, it will always get smaller.

[@cesarlopes9052]

Those units look huge in your room. That's not a clean look at all. Sorry, just my opinion. Keep up the great video.

[@COGuyStuff]

Lol that’s because you don’t see the whole room. It’s big.

[@thinkIndependent2024]

Sound beauty may not always = equipment room beauty

[@ChasingTone666]

Agreed. Looks like a couple of larger refrigerators and two small beer fridges in your living room. Horrible look.