"Master Tier Is Trash" & Smurfing Problems | Broken by Concept 199 | League Of Legends Podcast

[@theunwanted37]

Curtis looking up player ranks during loading screen tsk tsk. End of review.

[@zemptai]

Lmao 😂

[@butterflyfx57]

The best part about Nathan reading my post is him trying to say "y'all"

[@stinker6784]

that shit had me giggling like an idiot

[@ethandowler4669]

as a proud southerner, that was amazing to listen to. I saw your comment before I heard it, and I was waiting with great anticipation. did not disappoint haha

[@ELGUAPOIV]

Smurfing should be bannable, especially for content creators.

[@Special_Places]

I agree 100%. But it's too late. Riot had their chance to ban smurfs. Now it's too late, because everyone smurfs and the non-smurfs were chased out. Riot knows that banning smurf accounts instantly reduces their active accounts by at least 65%. Their community is nearly all smurfing at this point.

[@dumpsterplayer2700]

Imagine Cristiano Ronaldo saying that like the german football league was pisslo, or semi professionals are just terrible at football. It would rightly be looked down upon as if the person saying that an absolute melon. Now imagine Cristiano Ronaldo was turning up to Sunday football games at the local park and blasting his team mates for their poor decision making..This is Challengers talking down lower elos

[@autokrft]

idk man, I'm master and it actually blows my mind how bad everyone is in here. Really disappointed me. I'm talking about myself as well by the way, I'll win games I have no business winning and it feels like everyone is just an imposter roleplaying as a good player

[@atomicchicken4453]

​@@autokrft Mf didn't watch the pod 🤡

[@143tg]

@@atomicchicken4453 I mean he isnt entirely wrong, plus comparing ranks to income like the guy in the twitter post did is pretty dumb. People do winstreak to masters and just camp rank there. Even karsamai himself said the players arent exactly bad themselves and they could get GM if they wanted to. just because a rank is

[@EnErGetYxArts]

good point but taking bundesliga as example is crazy foolishness lol

[@ImKioto97]

​@@autokrftthat happens in every elo. 30-30-40 rule. I just think you guys underestimate how much you actually know and how good you actually are. Of course you're nowhere near a Challenger but that doesn't mean you're bad. Is like calling poor a guy who makes 1 million a year. Sure, there are people out there making 1 Billion, but that doesn't take away the fact that 1M is a lot of fucking money

[@smappa849]

My most hated word in all of league discussion is "pisslow" (and all the synonymous expressions talking down a rank). It just always rubbed me the wrong way when I hear that a rank, especially ones above 1% playerbase, is deemed pisslow and laughed at. And like you guys said, it trickles down to lower ranks, when everyone makes fun of the ranks above, below and the one they are at. Worst part of that for me is that by belittling those achievements, you hurt yourself the most. When inevitably the plateau happens at any rank, then uh oh, you are now losing to the "trash dogwater diamonds" and so on.

[@MIKAEL212345]

One of the best episodes you've had. I'm gonna use that Alois smurf example next time I'm talking with someone about why watching people smurf isn't really that helpful for improving.

[@bigzhopel1608]

Dunno every time I see this "educational" smurf content all I see being explained is like ultra basic stuff (shove lane > reset/roam or choosing 1st jg buff to start based on the matchup) but like when it comes to something more complicated like e.g. invading it goes like oh ye this champ is like weaker than mine and they will probably be there because they are full clear jungler but not really breaking into details a lot of other factors like lane wave states, angles to have vision on abilities, how to approach invade - through terrain scaling ability or simply walking in, why this hecking invade is needed in the first place (to open dive top e.g.). All of this stuff is just engaved into the person's mind and like even if they try it would last like half an hour+ to explain every smallest bit of the decision they've made based on a lot of variables which exist in the game

[@garagavia]

Yeah it was a really good example. I used to watch a lot of content like this, but Curtis has really made me realize all the invisible things that cause things to play out the way they do. As a viewer it's really hard to understand what is actually going on, and we get tricked into thinking "aha just walk up and E, it's easy" That's not to say this kind of content is completely without value, there's just all these hidden layers of things that make it really hard to replicate

[@NumberOneBlitz]

He has challenger mechanics then uses them to build an advantage then tells you rhw correct thing to do after abusing your challenger mechanics. So it looks easy. I'm a master player albeit on the older side and I understand all the concepts he'd preach but I wouldn't be good enough mechanically to build the micro adv before being able to exploit their macro

[@WorldKeepsSpinnin]

​@garagavia its not hard to recognize if you actually watch properly. But having it explained is beneficial.

[@WorldKeepsSpinnin]

Watching smurfing helps ALOT, theres a reason you do much better in game after watching someone smurf. Just like they sub consciously do advanced things, you also sub consciously pick this up and replicate it. On top of all the fundamentals you learn. If you cannot learn from educational smurfing content, then 1. you are not trying to learn and still letting your ego get in the way or 2. Theres no hope for you.

[@garagavia]

It was just mentioned briefly by Curtis, but he said that even they as challenger players are still exploring the basics of the game. This is something to really keep in mind, because I think this game is extremely deep, much deeper than anyone knows. We are nowhere even remotely close, the top players of today are garbage compared to what you could be at the game. It's fascinating really. Some times I hear challenger players talking like they know everything and I think to myself "that's like someone who has gone to the moon and thinks they understand everything about the universe" GG as always lads

[@tylerr472]

I had tried going to the gym 3 times before in ny life but it never stuck with me until i came across the concept of exercise science and really learned about all what that meant. This past May, I just passed my two-year mark of going to the gym consistently. I feel better, people tell me i look better, and everyday i notice how much stronger i am now then i was two years ago and it really boggles my mind how much more fun it is when i can explain how i got to where i am and what i am doing that works for me. I am a VERY new league player and what is really motivating me to play despite all the negative stigma around the game are podcasts like this one that takes this huge, complex, and deep game and makes it digestible for those that wanna dog in. You guys are dead on with that metaphor 💪🏾

[@biglittleboy9827]

Believe me, it's not worth it. There is no competition anymore in league. Too much problems with the game for it to be competitive. Matchmaking being absolutely TERRIBLE, autofill making games borderline unfair, smurfs being everywhere, 80% of games having someone who just run it down and die on cd making games unwinnable or unlosable, many champs being borderline broken compared to others, damage creep is out of control. Legitimately, YOU make the difference in like 20% of games, all the others games will be decided by something else than your own performance.. like someone who int, someone who smurf, someone being autofill and doing very bad, just having a team of bad champs against broken champs, your botlane just dying on cd.. something like that. Of course it's not true if you are turbo smurfing yourself, but then you are part of the problem that is ruining the game. Once you will realize that, you will understand how pointless this game have become to grind. It's such a waste of time, for real. And believe me, it's a master player otp kayle who played this game for 10+ years that is telling you all that. Just focus on another TRULY competitive game if you want to compete. But league of legends isn't competitive anymore, it's a fake competition.

[@0__Vector]

​@biglittleboy9827 you 100% have some mindset issues if that's your takeaway on the game right now. League is extremely competitive as solo queue relies a lot on your individual performance. You influence way more than 20% of the games. You can be the sole reason your team loses as well as the sole reason you win. Other times you have to be the facilitator to the win condition on the team, and that in itself often requires you to do that well. Also, "80% of games having someone run it down?" Really? Even as an exaggeration that is ridiculous and just not true. You just perceive it that way because the games when someone actually does do that leaves a big impact on you.

[@Black3142]

Where's the MOTIVATIONAL intro?!

[@satoiify]

Curtis always butchering intro x)

[@BobFudgee]

it's dead😥

[@peyches00majickmanshin2]

This training someone like a "dog" is heavily used in fighting games. Love that we are talking about laning phase in that way. There's a lot of value in looking at league in some ways like a fighting game. Unlocks a new level like what was said.

[@craigmartin1426]

The stuff Curtis is talking about at 14 mins is like fighting games 101 once I got good at a fighting game and came back to league my mind games carried over its pretty awesome really

[@amumoon1268]

8:39 When Stanley came to a set of two open doors, he entered the door on his left.

[@garagavia]

I like what Curtis was saying around 44:55 about how if you have a different perspective than people they exile you from the community. So true about off-meta picks as well smh

[@jonathanwynne6925]

the amount of negativity you get for picking something strange is amazing and so few people are willing to take it back when you do well

[@garagavia]

@@jonathanwynne6925 yeah it's tragic. I think this podcast does well in emphasizing the importance of fun and curiosity, perhaps the two most fundamental attributes of a growth mindset and a good relationship with the game. But I think even this community has a long way to go to overcome the negativity around off-meta picks, and just new ideas in general. It's human nature to feel uneasy about having your beliefs challenged, but I think we can overcome this together

[@PecoMid]

Hey just wanted to let you know like mental stack you should check out the concept of "conditioning" in fighting games. Its essentially exactly what Curtis was describing when he was talking about playing galio and just walking right up to his opponent after he conditioned him to not expect it. Its so cool how many overlaps you guys find with fighting games in league and how much we can learn from league to fighting games and vice versa!!!!!

[@kitbishop5139]

Recently went through the role regret portion in my journey! After 2 years in top lane I've swapped to support and as said, it puts a vastly different understanding of how the role works due to having developed separate preconceptions on the fundamentals.

[@DerpSerpi]

that last mailbag question was great, what a guy. I'm glad I got to hear that story, perfect timing before the 200th episode as well as you guys said

[@rustone9829]

I love how you guys just see everything so positive! And love your mindset. Eventhough I think that karasmais post was very unreflective and not motivating, just toxic and non empathic. All in all great episode and much love ❤

[@garagavia]

So sad to see his post, what a weak role-model

[@jacobkahn97]

Talking about training people in the game makes so much sense to me. I teach martial arts and I bring that up all the time. I'll do the same thing 2 or 3 times now they "know" I'm doing that thing only to switch it up and land the new strike. Trying to teach that concept to even the highest level students is hard. They can understand it conceptually, but applying it in live sparring is another thing entirely.

[@gregorsmirnow6337]

I quit playing League a while back when work got really busy, and I decided to commit more time to it. Coming back to this channel and hearing that challenger talking down on master players was a shock. When I was head deep in solo queue culture, I would've heard that take and thought he's just out of touch. Having taken a break and hearing his rant about how shit top 1%ers are when I was considering getting back into the game (playing in plat) is sickening. No body who isn't already deep into the climb would look in on the LoL community, see people like him shit talk 99% of everyone who plays and supports the game he loves, and think to themselves: "I want to strive to be him." Players like him are poison to LoL's growth. I used to look back fondly on my ranked experience, and think, "I aughta get back into that. It could be a fun challenge!" Now I hear stuff like this and realize I'm glad I escaped. I love your guys' attitude, and I hope it really does prevail, but 1 diamond in the giant pile of shit doesn't stop the pile of shit from smelling like a pile of shit. GL :/

[@biglittleboy9827]

Who care anyway, it's the new generation culture.. talking down on EVERYTHING but yourself. Don't even pay attention. Gold players talk down on bronze.. emerald on gold.. diamond on emerald .. master on diamond.. chall on master.. pro on chall .. faker on pro .. well actually faker don't he is a nice guy lol, but you get the point.. there will always be an insecure little rat talking down on you to filled this insecurity hole he have irl.. ignore him and move on, those people don't deserve any human attention at all.

[@Special_Places]

​@@biglittleboy9827Nah. Instead of saying "just ignore them", just don't play. Why would people want to play with moron kids who are so self-entitled and arrogant that they shit talk random people because they press QWER better than another person? The game is trash, Riot is trash, amd the environment has destroyed the community. Don't go back to League, let it burn to the ground.

[@Reeeeder]

I think pekinwoof would be the perfect guest for this podcast as a long time high elo player that was former coach and pro player

[@DoubleZetaTK]

Woohoo got my question answered! Glad to know it was a tough problem to solve even for the old Nathan and curtis

[@daniellockwood7061]

This is a very common issue with people who are exceptional at something. Not everyone, but a lot of these people in the top

[@DD-uq4sw]

i think the patern setting/breaking would be a really cool perspective breakdown of a good yasuo vs a bad yasuo. The way some yasuos can E ontop of you and others just fly around the wave a bit. I think it would really show how effective the concept can be.

[@PierreLuk]

I wanna make a few points here. About master being trash. I don't think it is trash but the deeper reason that people think master isn't that good is because getting top 1% at league is significantly easier than getting top 1% at most other fields. Let's take income for example. They said top 1% income was 800k a year. That's an ocean of a difference in the difficulty. Getting top 1% in league is like high diamond if I remember correctly. That's really easy compared to earning 800k a year. In the emerald video they talked about how emerald players are really good. They also said that in emerald is where people start taking the game seriously. That really pisses me off. In any other craft there's no way you can beat 85% of the competition without already taking the thing seriously. That shows that people are not taking the game seriously, which is fine, but that just shows that league players in most rank don't really count as competition, they're not even trying. Considering this, top 1% of the ranked ladder is not actually top 1% of the people who are actually trying, since most people playing ranked barely put in any productive effort to improve. Speaking from experience I have spent about 1800 or so hours in league and about 1300-1400 hours in smash Bros melee. Sligjtly less, but I can guarantee you I put 3x-4x the effort I did for league. In melee I'm barely above average, in LoL I was (in split 1, I don't play anymore) vastly above average, I was platinum 1 playing garen top only. Platinum is about top 15% - 20% if I remember properly. And in melee I would say I'm at best top 30%. I don't know the rank distribution for that game (I'm high gold) and the ranked ladder doesn't matter too much, in fighting games it's tournament results that matter, ranked is just the dojo. In melee I'm way worse compared to the average player than in LoL despite putting a shit ton more effort in melee. In melee I was actually trying to go pro and really had a good methodical approach to the game and trained with intensity. Comparatively a lot of league has been swapping roles and champions and mindlessly playing with friends. I'd say I was on 90% effort for melee and 40% effort for LoL (to be fair my 40 is probably most people's 60% because my brain is wired to figure out games). There's something one of my friend said once. He played both league and smash bros ultimate semi seriously. He said that the average fighting game player is very good at fighting games, but the average league player isn't very good at league, something I totally agree with. Fighting games attract pretty hardcore gamers. I've pretty much never seen a guy playing melee and not take the game seriously. If you go to a tournament, the average tournament player in melee by default already does so many of the things these guys talk about in the podcast. Limited pool of characters (which in melee just means 1 only, one tricking is basically the norm for fighting games), being curious, open minded, taking responsibility, getting into the details etc. Then think about the average league player: plays mindlessly, complains about teammates, doesn't review, doesn't take responsibility, etc. Now for the subject of watching smurfs. I really have no idea why you guys say it's not helpful it is SO helpful. Let's think about it with a phrase they often use. "What's the alternative" the alternative of watching smurfs is watch a high level player (master or above) versus another high level player. Or a lower level player (below diamond) versus another lower level player. You can learn from both of course but here's the problem. If you're gold, you need to learn how to punish gold player. If you watch a challenger vs challenger, they're playing on such a high level, a lot of it is not applicable to your games. It makes no sense to me why they say that high Elo vods can teach you but not smurf games. Think about it, you need to learn how to punish a gold. Challenger #1 will not make the mistakes of a gold player, therefore you will never see challenger #2 punish them. Thus you have no idea how to punish your gold opponents for the things you're currently letting them away with. Similarly if you watch a gold player vs a gold player. Gold player #1 WILL make the mistake (let's say going for a trade with a level down) but gold player #2 will not punish them for it. On the other hand, if you watch Alois play in gold, his gold opponent will make a mistake and Alois will show you "hey you can't let your opponent get away with this, you need to punish them. This is how to do it." Then with the Darius exemple from Alois. As someone who's played a very movement heavy game (melee) the movement to bait out Jayce didn't feel like an utterly otherworldly hard thing to do. It just makes sense and I think if people turn their brains on they can learn that. But the thing is the problem is they're like "you have to do this to beat the platinum Darius" and the general consensus from people that say smurf videos are bad is that they're too good and it's not applicable. I can guarantee you, you don't need to do that crazy movement thing to win against a platinum Jayce, there's 30 different ways to win in that situation. Similarly you don't need to do EVERYTHING that Alois does to win in platinum. If you do everything that Alois does in platinum, you won't just win in platinum YOU'LL DEMOLISH PLATINUM. Therefore if you can just learn 1 or 2 things from the smurf vod you will drastically improve. People also talk too much about execution. Look maybe I'm wrong but from my observation the reason people are silver and gold in lol is not because they know what they want but can't execute it, they're fucking clueless as to what they want, so no shit they can't execute on it. Step 1. Know what you want (this is where the smurf vids come into play) and Step 2 is to execute on it. No amount of execution is going to make you climb if you roam 24/7 with Malzahar, that's a decision making problem, not an execution problem. Back to why smurf is good: let's talk about melee. In melee if I watch hungrybox (former triple world champion) play versus a lower skilled opponent I can't replicate what he can do in terms of execution, but I still gain so much learning. The usual habits of people of my skill level, how does he punish them? The main thing I usually learn from those is that it really simplifies the game, you can see that he's mostly centering on a few critical openings and winning conditions. That helps me simplify my game and remind me of what is crucial to succeed in a matchup. Another example would be TAS in speedrunning. The TAS is a computer playing a preprogrammed set of inputs to show what the perfect speedrun would be. This is basically the equivalent of smurfing, aka an unreachable level of play (at least for now 😏). This is really useful for speedrunners because it gives them a north star, where and how can I gain time. And of course there's certain things that are impossible to do, but it's fine, you don't NEED to do everything the TAS does, just take a few things and apply then and that will make you improve.

[@pocketblue]

jesus christ. league players are so desperate for validation after wasting thousands of hours didn't read. just impressive how many essay comments there are on these videos

[@PierreLuk]

@@pocketblue don't really understand your point I don't need validation lol

[@Zevrael]

You can't compare Melee to League. Melee is a much simpler (not easier) game. Much fewer characters with much simpler abilities, no teammates, no minimap, no minions, no objectives, just an isolated 1v1. It is obvious that Melee players are "better" than League players. With so many fewer skills to learn, mastery of these skills will generally be higher. Also, realize that execution is easy *for you*, because you play such an execution-heavy game. When it comes to smurf content, I don't think it can be half as helpful as high elo content. It is much better to know how to beat a champion than how to beat a specific player. And if you want to learn how to beat a champion, you need to see a player get beaten on it who has mastered that champion.

[@MichaelJohnson-wd1le]

@@Zevrael As he said though, if you're watching challenger they're going to be vastly better. In fact it's going to be even harder to execute because they're going to have to do so much more to shit on their opponent. If you watch Alois play darius vs some gold players it shows multiple ways of winning pretty easily. People in low elo just straight up do not know what they think they know. "Oh I know the back timers and stuff." No you don't. The movement thing isn't even high level. But if that were the case you could instead just sit in the bush and it already screws jayce over. Jayce at some point will overextend and since you're darius he should die for it or have to recall. You have taken one large step to winning lane now. It's extremely simple and you don't need to do anything fancy, you're against gold players not challengers. As was said in the essay if you did everything Alois did you'd absolutely destroy anybody in that elo. But, you really don't need to.

[@Zevrael]

@@MichaelJohnson-wd1le I feel like learning how to abuse [insert rank] players is not the healthiest way to climb. That only sets you up to hit all the more sturdy walls once those tricks don't work any more. I find it much more conducive to improvement to practice the fundamentals and eliminate mistakes from your own gameplay instead of copy-pasting what some smurf did.

[@CosmicRadiationMusic]

If you guys want a super interesting perspective on almost everything you've talked about on many of your episodes, I recommend looking into the higher level scene of Super Smash Bros. Melee. That game and its players are filled to the brim with philosophy, individuality, an infinite skill ceiling, and pure passion to not only become the best player you can be but to make sure you're also making everyone you play with the best they can be for true competition and validation. You'll inevitably learn so much if you take the time to look into it.

[@nexarr]

Unpopular opinion, would love to hear what you think: Elo hell does not exist for most of cases. But it does exist if you play a champion that requires decent team play to work. I am Sivir main, reached Emerald last split, which is a huge achievement for me. But what I recognized is, it was more difficult to get out of Gold than it was to get out of Platinum, because in Platinum my teammates more often knew that they need to protect me, they did not gank when I had 3 waves of enemy minions crushing my tower and so on, they were just better. If the game becomes easier the higher I climb the ladder, it means there is something wrong with the system. I was confused with how easy the games were in high platinum so I decided to make an experiment, I started playing on my alt account (I haven't played on it for years) that is placed in Silver. The same champion, build, runes, everything. And guess what? 50% win rate, I can't climb. I'm ahead every game but I can't 1v5 as Sivir. It would be possible with Yone but it's not possible with a team dependent ADC. So every game is a coinflip for me. I will make it clear - I managed to get Emerald with 54% win rate, 5.5 KDA, but I'm not able to climb out of Silver. Obviously, I would made it if I had kept playing for long enough, but the game is actually more difficult in lower ELO. It's insane. And Sivir is not the worst champion for carrying the games. I can only imagine how bad it would be if I was a Sona or Nami main. If the game becomes easier the higher you get, there will be people who could be playing in a higher rank with decent results, but they are not able to make it out of lower ranks. I have heard a lot of opinions like that, for a lot of people it's actually more difficult in lower ranks. Another thought: Create a custom game with 8 bots and 2 real players. So the teams are: - Team 1: 4 bots + Emerald Sona player - Team 2: 4 bots + Silver Yone player Both players play they mains. The Team 2 is going to have 100% win rate against the Team 1, that's it.

[@evan8895]

As a support player I've wondered about how valid this could be as well, id be interested to hear what they have to say as well.

[@kkdj20]

Those players in the lower ranks could simply adapt their gameplay to fit their rank and take advantage of the bad habits of the players in that rank, then climb. I guaranfuckintee I could pick sivir and win 90+% of games in silver, because I'd just pick her midlane and get several solo kills + 5 tower plates every game by abusing the fact that silvers cannot deal with auto attack harass in lane phase.

[@Elimbi1]

What you just described is the defintion of elo hell lmao!

[@purplekrakenyut]

This just happened. Hardstuck bronze and silver. For some reason this season I placed high silver. I kept going and going, got gold, and all of a sudden I was actually playing league 5v5, not 3v7. It got so much easier than I hit platinum and I am now on my way to emerald.

[@nexarr]

@@kkdj20 the problem is that you look at it from a high elo player perspective. the skill gap is so huge that nothing matters anymore. But the things I described still work, you are just so good that it does not even matter. But what if its a Platinum Sona main trying to climb out of Bronze? they will have a diffucult time.

[@ricosnake3591]

I just wish riot would ban people who are smurfing, especially content creators as they set such a bad example and give people an excuse to do it. Completely destroys the games integrity for the majority of the playerbase. Between smurfs inters trolls it wastes so much time not having good games. Hate the game not the player but i dont respect anyone who does it and obviously only riot can stop it

[@Roygasm]

I'll be honest here. I honestly think a league player should pick up a game where you have to improve on an individual basis like a fighting game. Going from fighting games to league allowed me to improve a lot. Especially since you can run into anyone at a tournament. Back in the day I was matched against one of the best guilty gear xrd players multiple times. You can't avoid the best players because you have to be required to face them potentially in a tournament setting.

[@TLee-wu2fq]

Thank you, I am the guy who was emerald but stuck in gold (Mr. L). I am now still playing and I do now see that why I am stuck here or there doesn't really matter. To be honest, the grub and removal of mythics were probably the things that cause my downfall, in hindsight. anyways, enjoyed the content, nice video as always

[@assassinsfriend]

Curtis you should interview shok. His midlane educational content is top tier and he doesnt enjoy the smurf stuff too. Be interesting to here you guys chat

[@LISA.WANG.]

1:00:54 From my pov you two are _already_ those people for my League experience 😅 It might not be exactly what you mean or what view yourselves as, but the depth you go to is already beyond what I'd probably consider and it fascinates me

[@jaschlit]

The one narrative I see is the ff at 15, bc people will watch a very high elo game and that’s all they see. Then in lower elos people want to quit just bc the opposing team is up a couple kills…. This is very frustrating and it’s a top down thing.

[@everything-has-a-handle-now]

The goat of CS:GO made a course. Everybody checked it out because who wouldn't listen when the GOAT has something to say. Well the course is really bad because he simply doesn't know how to teach and didn't put in a lot of effort (seemingly).

[@Freakattaker]

Teaching is absolutely a skill and ppl get ego checked trying to do it all the time honestly. Especially worse if the teacher is a genius at their craft and learned it with relatively less effort than the average joe since they will have a harder time understanding what issues a student is going through and how to address said issues.

[@lordgrimm2905]

When playing league i never focus on the player rank, i rather focus on winrate and individual champ stats (using porofessor) its a much better tell if a player is god or not, also treath assesment and weakside/strongside i predict correctly 80% of my games on loading screen (i dont predict game results just lane results)

[@ArcaneDime]

I peaked at silver 4 like 4 years ago then i left the game and came back to this year split 1 and fully ranked im a bronze player it doesnt matter but i had a bad row of games and ended on iron 2 and i faced an iron player and the difference with me a bronze 2 player against an iron is like day and night it is astonishing the diference on mentality and mechanics

[@Vall3y]

Based Anthony, that intro is a banger

[@JimnyThePython]

I eat most Katarina's I face for lunch as Lux, because I know how most Katarina's work and they just E into my Q for most of early lane. No disrespect to Kat mains, but a lot of them play the exact same way, so I just ask them to go in on me and win early trades, because they do, when I want them to. The same happens vs a lot of Yone players, they are scary when they have Q3 and E up, but I also know they really want to go in when they do, so very often I get them to dash into my Q. When I say "walk into it" of course they don't literally grief, but I throw the ability out at the exact right time, so it'll be where they are.

[@kreeperkiller4423]

I find that in top lane pretty much every Aatrox and Fiora beyond mastery 5 uses their abilities in trades the same way too

[@wendellflowersmusic]

I find myself sometimes not knowing what to do when opponents minimize mistakes. I play Katarina and my high Elo friends have all told me my biggest strength is punishing mistakes but I get very lost when mistakes are not readily being made. With Lux I respect the matchup well. If they hold their Q the onus then becomes on me to force a mistake. I find that Very difficult to do; Forcing a move from an opponent

[@omarabdillah4722]

​@@wendellflowersmusiccurtis said many times, when it comes to really good players its not about what you do, but more what you dont do, he even gave the galio example vs a sol this episode, despite being challenger vs emerald he didnt force and solo kill lane, even tho he prob couldve why take a low % play

[@deni4l164]

I understand that if you want to climb, your #1 priority is managing tilt and so it is better to react positively to every change made to the game regardless of how you feel about them. I wonder, do they actually never get angry with the state of the game or is it just a persona.

[@Freakattaker]

They've mentioned in the past that they absolutely do get tilted and emotional in game at times, but have simply learned coping mechanisms or "tool kits" to deal with it and faster than the average person. Say for example Coach Curtis pings his JG off an invade because he's in a losing match up and getting shoved in, but the JG still goes for the invade and gives his laner a kill. He might get tilted, but then remind himself of things like "What do I need to do next to win this game, maybe I should have pinged more aggressively to back off, well I played my best and that's fine; let's keep on trucking on and the game is winnable, etc." Stuff to distract you from the tilting things happening in game and focusing on what you can do to win the game, improve, and see the bigger picture of your journey past +/- 25 LP

[@bryceamas]

The fact they don't think others have the capacity to think at a higher level than their actually execution level astounds me. And sure there are outliers but they are meaning what they are saying you can tell.

[@braintrust02]

I love that Smurf breakdown thank you

[@drewferguson8324]

This is why fighting games are still more interesting than league to me. It’s all about training opponents to conditioned responses then changing to score a hit leading to a big combo. And in league there just isn’t nearly as much of that even in mid/top.

[@adamdecoder1]

Most League players are rank-myopic. They suffer from elo nearsightedness. Just as Karasmai as a High Challenger player struggles to perceive the difference between Emerald and Master Tier, I as a low-Diamond player struggle to perceive the difference in skill between Silver and Gold, or sometimes even Gold and Platinum. Yet I can SHARPLY perceive the difference between Low Emerald and Low Diamond, and ABSOLUTELY a low-Diamond player vs a Masters smurf. You can literally feel how much better a Masters player is when you're vs them in a D4 lobby and they're try-harding on their main role. It's a tangible pressure that permeates the lane matchup and eventually the entire game. It's like comparing the size of an ant to a beetle. Sure, one is ostensibly a bigger bug, but to a human they're still just insects, and a rolled-up newspaper or a shoe deals with them both the same way. Not to mention there's an emotional factor to it as well. When you're the highest skill in your lobby, you tend to have unreasonable expectations of your teammates. So when they fail to meet those expectations, your opinion of their skill level is swiftly impacted. If high elo matchmaking was more healthy and challenger players never had to play with masters players on their main climbs, I doubt they would be so disrespectful of their peers. Then again, maybe it's just human nature to disparage others, regardless of their individual skills or accomplishments. Hence why Challenger players are harder on Masters players than I am on Gold players. I never have to queue with them or interact with them, so there's no emotional baggage attached to my objective statements about their skill level.

[@Pyrrha_Nikos]

I think the Karasmai "Masters is trash" tweet is way more simple to explain: $800k a year for a bartender is a lot, but for a billionaire it's nothing. Masters for a silver player is incredibly good, but for a challenger player it's awful. It's all about the perspective of who's viewing the point Edit because I just thought of this: I'm a d4 jungler. Last night I had an awful block where I lost all my games, but 2 of them I felt I didn't get a chance to play, so I queued up for another one. The enemy jungler was a low Master player smurfing (I added him and chatted after the game) and he rolled me super hard. If the gap between him and me is big, it's even bigger against low Emerald players

[@autokrft]

i don't get how this analogy could be used for a game that involves skill. it's not some objective thing like salaries

[@Pyrrha_Nikos]

@@autokrftsalaries aren't objective. For someone that makes a crap ton of money, my salary seems low, but it's not low to someone that makes less money than me

[@autokrft]

@@Pyrrha_Nikos league has so many variables in the game that play a factor in winning. You can't possibly compare it to something like a salary. The thing is, you can be the top 1% of something and still be bad at it. You're only relatively good. If I make a video game and 10 people play it but I beat everyone, what does that mean? I can probably be the most awful player but because I'm beating people who are worse than me, it only means I'm relatively good. There's a good blog post that talks about this subject-- google "95%-ile isn't that good".

[@Zolti14]

If we look to similar competitive activities, this is just not true. The best 2600elo super GM chess players have more respect for 2100elo club players than challenger players have for masters. This is despite the fact that a 2600elo player would win/draw 95% (actual math based on elo) of games played against a 2100elo player. The elo difference between master and challenger is less than the distance between these two chess brackets.

[@Zolti14]

​@Pyrrha_Nikos Rating and salary are representations of ojectivity by definition. Your perspective does not change the number.

[@alleman0378]

CONGRATS ON 20K SUBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@BrokenByConcept]

Thanks Allen! - Nathan

[@Riokaii]

you shatter the galio because you know what the galio is noticing and what he isnt, and you've been the galio before, capable of noticing patterns, but not yet capable of knowing when those patterns will stop being predictive and be broken in the future, and been on the receiving end of being surprised and caught off guard. Your emotions are your internal coach, anytime i feel surprised in game, i pay attention to that, because it will lead to be becoming a better player. Next time i wont get surprised the same way, and i can "monkey see, monkey do" copy it and surprise other people the same way as I was.

[@AsielDimas]

i love mike mentzer. I love the solving of games and the theory behind it and mike mentzer even though not all of his theories were correct he pushed for more scientists and intellectuals to put their brains into figuring out the optimal way to reach peak body building. I love the idea of optimizing learning and i think the future of esports in general is having high value intellectuals analyzing the game to figure out what we can do differently and better to push us into the next generation. faker might be our bill russel or our wilt chamberlain but i think we have yet to see our jordan

[@kiresie]

@Nathan Could you please send the video link for the ad from the Tarantino film? 😊

[@BrokenByConcept]

It's in the description - Nathan

[@DeMafiaGirl]

I wish I could have stuck with ADC instead of playing mid and jungle the past few seasons because I was so frustrated with the lack of agency. If I stuck with ADC I could have been a really good adc player where agency wouldn't even be a problem and I'd be able to carry my games. But trying to pick up where I left off, its a struggle. I'm in higher MMR getting team diffed and destroyed in draft trying to learn ;-;

[@Freakattaker]

Make a new account! Learn ADC on there once you hit lv30 (don't do it in norms cuz your MMR will get way too skewed upwards; play ARAMs to lv30 if u want to have normal ranked MMR)

[@The_Scouts_Code]

I'm a Teemo OTP with 3.5 Million mastery and I'm still not sick of him.

[@Kizinky]

analogy of the reddit post is kinda bad because you can train to be top1% in a game, you cant train to be 6'4.

[@wowitsfrostygames155]

I think you didn’t understand the analogy

[@Azzzoth]

I need riot to fix this replay corrupting bug so I can get back to reviewing!

[@multicrogamer]

What if you have a call in segment where people tell their stories and expreiences in short calls 5-10 minutes, 3 guests or something like that. Would be interesting to enage with community/callers and to see their viewpoint or what they disagree with. It will stir up discussion and maybe all of us can get better perspective of what each one of us goes trough. I get that's already been done with mailbag but real time discussion would be ineteresting where you can ask direct questions.

[@thelanternexpress9371]

Karasmai proves that league players =/ smart. If you start saying "but yea im masters/Gm/Chall and masters sucks!" youre straight up not even understanding the argument. The argument is NOT that masters+ players think its this amazing elo. Its that masters is OBJECTIVELY VERY HIGH ELO COMPARED TO THE GENERAL/AVERAGE PLAYER. If masters wasn't good, then far more than .67% of players would be there. This is just basic mathematics holy. I am blown away how hard something so simple is for people.

[@MrLuckyy007]

Mike Mentzer was a snails oil salesman that founded his training style on a 1-man study to better sell his gym equipment btw.

[@tristan6773]

his one man study is a mr olympia . he just told what he did to get there. + meth

[@NokeNoke15]

People on the internet don't do research and are not versed in the area, what do you expect. Ignorance is a bliss after all. Ironic from Nathan to apply something it does not know, just like an emerald talking about advanced league concepts

[@JoshDoes]

14:01 I can see it because I'm that good in fortnite and can instantly tell a players skill level the moment I see them.

[@spartanbegginner909]

1:09:50 did Nathan just sneak in a “broken by concept” lol?

[@videnz2664]

the thing is if you want to improve you gotta held yourself to a higher standard than u actually are so if you are grandmaster it's just naturally for you to call master trash just like for master players it's should be normal for them to call dia trash like thats just the nature of it just like for a plat player everything in plat and below is trash and usually this players are the one that actually improve thats just the nature of improving you are not content with the rank you are so you start improving and climbing

[@MIKAEL212345]

3:00 I wonder if that is why streamers love playing on smurfs. Really hard to be an engaging entertaining streamer when you are playing at your actual rank cause at your actual rank your whole mental stack is needed

[@orbitronsorbitrons]

I can absolutely see that being the case. In fact, one of the league content creators I watch whose main account is GM, does his educational commentary in post (ie edited in) when playing on his main, and live commentary when on an alt in low masters or whatnot. He explicitly said that he can provide better commentary on the alt or in post since on his main he is tryharding a lot more

[@michikapunkt56]

the revenge of low elo,we need more high elo acc buyers to give smurfs back what they do to us. permaban TFBlade and all those feel good smurfs destroying the game for new players

[@Noremak_Notrap]

smurfs ruined league and it will never be fixed no matter how much they say they're working on it

[@litrokxxd8629]

When i was master and i played normal games it was like i was famous. People were nervous playing against me. The chall streamers are just delulu

[@jaschlit]

When I play normals, I hope I get a higher elo player so I can learn something new and see how I stack up.

[@Chyiu]

wish theyd show the gameplay hes talking about in the beginning.

[@SandStone88]

Always gotta be those mother smurfin' smurfs.

[@WGasmss]

Worst parenting decision is making your child play league of legends at age 10..

[@ScoutlolLPL]

My goat caps mentioned

[@handlmycck]

that training the enemy like an animal is so relatable as an ex miss fortune otp. i literally had to train my supports to pressure the enemy as im an early game bully by positioning badly like im about to get caught. so funny and cool this idea came up again

[@leebader6396]

What is a mental stack? Sounds obscure.

[@lalosamu]

Mentality

[@Another0mask]

yeah that tendency of talking about these ranks being low it's so dumb.. its the same with gym culture in terms of hypertrophy... I ve been in the gym consistently for 5-6 years .. I started at 155 lbs 15% bf and now i am at 200lbs at the same bodyfat.. thats 45lbs of muscle built.. i look so good... but many people(many with less progress) talk about my physique like its nothing and they compare it with ppl online that are using steroids and are proffessional... normal everyday ppl think im a god and many gym bros think my level is laughable ot be proud of allthough most of them havent reached it... just ignore it..

[@younggod5230]

A 2 hour banger

[@sevincit]

Agurin catching strays

[@LuxiBelle]

Gargamelgang out in full force, I hate smurfs.

[@Snake_1v9]

i think i have to sorta disagree with the skool post response from you 2. where you reply to the guy wanting ryze shield back on combos and you guys use examples like kassadin silence and what not and how broken it would be if that existed in todays games and how overloaded the kits were back then. if anything i think kits from newer champions are a lot more overloaded in todays releases and reworks than anything from back then. so them bringing back something like the ryze shield wouldnt break the game i think if anything it would make the champion good and a solid pick. i think if something like kassadin Q silenced it would make his counter pick fantasy a lot better. its single target too so i dont really see the problem with this as he already struggles 1v1ing most champions through out the entirety off the game until he gets a lead or enemy gets picked off by his team with him around. Malzahar has an AOE silence from the beginning of the game. but i guess u could say that he doesnt get a magic shield but then again malzahar has a passive and kassadin has one of the most boring uninteractive , non noticable if not useless passives in the game forcing his base defensive stats to be on the lower end from an old design. if u havent noticed yet by now im a kassadin main haha but i also am a massive ryze fan and champions that are outdated and need midscope reworks are champions like kassadin and ryze maybe not their silence and shield but even if they would get them back i think they'd be really fine in todays games. maybe last split around the end where kassadin was doing exceptionally well could be considered a place where you can nerf him if he had the silence in his kit. just because a champion happens to be okay in a meta does not make it a champion thats well designed. nostalgia is a big factor of these things where people want shield and silence on ryze and kassadin as examples. but the way they feel is not inherently wrong, because simply something like Syndra, Ahri and even Orianna and Leblanc are a lot more fun to play after the changes they've gotten over the past few years. Where they would be considered out dated, bad, niche, weak or what ever else. now they're fun, engaging, up to date and something like Ahri and Syndra are the go to midlaners in todays games that are almost always good and extremely fun to play as pick rates show now compared to previously. doesnt mean something like Syndra is unbalanced or broken. something like Ahri is always said how broken and overloaded she is nowadays and its true she is overloaded but a champion like kassadin that cant do anything in early that cant 1v1 anyone at any stage unless he has a lead. fully relies on stats he has so basically is a walking stat, no CC nothing. where the Q shield only value is in lane which makes him a counter pick + his passive is suppose to be counted into the counter pick anti mage fantasy that does nothing at all stages off the game. adding his Q silence back will not make him broken will not break the game. I'm sure if ryze got his shield back on combos with proper balancing can be one way to bring a "dead" champion back. or at least in some way do something similar that they did to ahri and syndra. i didnt write this wall off text to get pity or something for my champion as i completely accept kassadin's position but i do have to be realistic and give out my opinion as i think you guys are a bit over-exaggerating with how broken ryze shield woud be or kassadin silence etc.

[@xulip4]

I really like your content and watch a lot of your videos/podcasts, but I must say I feel like you misrepresented what Karasmai said.

[@dumpsterplayer2700]

I'm pretty sure you guys have said that the game league of legends doesnt even start till masters so isn't that the same thing as these downplayers?

[@IchigoKurosaki3119]

real talk though if you're from NA ur never winning worlds

[@jacksonhester6747]

IWDominate is a 30+ challenger

[@angel1buffy]

Smurfing is the cancer to league no matter why you are doing it

[@Special_Places]

Couldn't agree more. Smurfing absolutely ruined the game for me. It's like a cancer, because smurfing makes me not care at all about winning. It's random whether you win or lose because of it. Rank means nothing. And, my attitude spreads from game to game because of it. People want to talk about how deep the game is, and that's great. But people are ignoring the depth of the problems of the game as well. Riot allowing smurfing has absolutely isolated a massive part of the playerbase and chased them out. What's left is a community of smurfs who are both in diamond and silver. It's really sad how badly Riot managed smurfing.

[@colinbuhler3860]

Who are they? How can i know if they dont introduce themselfes? 😁

[@juptsup6908]

That Aurelion in your game was gold 3 by the way

[@evenask]

Not that it matters, but he is Gold 3 now after rank reset with only 2 wins.

[@iDraqo]

Do yall take a smoke break with please stand by? Lol

[@willorgama]

You nerver play gold EUW for win game = just perma 4 - 6 smurf by game

[@EverestGaming99]

BBC Mondays 🎉

[@yGKeKe]

I can't speak for Masters rank, but...as someone who is in the "Top 1.5%" in the IQ department. I can't even fathom what it must be like for anyone above me, and on the other end...I constantly encounter people below me who are consistently confident about their level of understanding of things that they are absolutely clueless about. I imagine league is the same shit. People below Masters just have no god damn idea how much they don't know, they can't understand the difference between them and the other person. A lot of them just don't have the capacity to fathom it. Then when you're in Challenger looking at a Masters player...it's like looking down on someone from the top of a mountain. They blend in with everyone else and are equally as small in comparison. I would speculate, the reason the majority of the population thinks Masters players are bad, is because they watch Challenger streamers, who consistently say that Masters players are bad. These guys are looking at something through a reflection and seeing it in a different angle than they would be if they looked directly at the object. Karasmai's response simply illustrates what I'm talking about. The guy is completely clueless and has lost all perspective because he's forgotten what it looks like from the other side. I say this because I was in Karasmai's shoes...at least when it comes to people with lower IQs. If there weren't so many people above me to show me how dumb I actually am in the big picture I'd have completely lost perspective. Curtis is spot on with his analysis of this entire thing imo.

[@yushkovyaroslav]

Respect the dedication but, there are some levels of delusion from these 2 as well. XD

[@BobFudgee]

I think Karasamai's point was that Master's players only try to mechanics max and never actively try to make good macro decisions, most likely because they just cba, masters games are a high enough elo to where you don't get random timmy14 going 0/14 because he doesn't know the game and you can start to genuinely get good competitive games occasionally, but it's so muddled by mechanics maxers just spamming 800 games and eventually reaching Masters just from spamming games and peaking out at lower masters. It's the fact that these players don't care to learn the fundamentals of the game they just care about getting as many kills as possible.

[@WidgetWagyu47292]

I LOVE BBC!

[@overpoweredjelly3513]

Masters is trash only when you compare to what masters once used to be some years ago. Otherwise masters is not bad. It is not good either of course, it is just ok

[@VOIDEDs]

But skill for skill the ceiling is way higher now right? Compared to before surely its not as exceptional to be master right now but I feel like the play has evolved so much that master players 10 years ago would be emerald right now if they just timeskipped 10 years without the time spent on adjusting on new tactics and stuff, only knowledge of the champs and the meta/jungle

[@VOIDEDs]

Im assuming it goes without saying but also I was recently watching some NA pro players that were like challenger/master back in s3-s4 and honest to god I couldnt believe how robotic and basic their decision making was almost silver-like both in pro play and soloq. Im a d1 player on euw and Ik its absolutely pisslow compared to the actual good players in the game but I was also d2 back in s3 when I was 13 years old and I could 1v9 games with ease in anything below d3 although my skill level was way worse than now. (i did stop playing for a few years) but as an adult now I feel like im 10 times better than before macro wise, yet in todays league of legends I struggle so much and randomly against random plat/emerald even gold players sometimes, it feels like if u arent playing 100% all the time u just get diffed by anyone

[@acezinoo]

that reddit post is a moronic false equivalency anyway?XD top 1% in those things is genetic and or otherwise assisted by your enviroment, i.e you won't randomly fall into a job that makes 800k unless it's through a connection or you are the best in your field, whereas 80% of the playerbase of league could be masters with coaching and a little more attention to the game. complete reject mentality to consider someone who is top 1% in league of legends to be anything more than a lowelo subhuman

[@griffen1k]

"I'm not introducing you, they know who we are." 💀

[@Kizinky]

First