Mathematics in the Soviet Union | Edward Frenkel and Lex Fridman

Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Edward Frenkel: Realit...
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Edward Frenkel is a mathematician at UC Berkeley working on the interface of mathematics and quantum physics. He is the author of Love and Math: The Heart of Hidden Reality.
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[@LexClips]

Full podcast episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/haTLYWCAaLllpLs Lex Fridman podcast channel: kzbin.info Guest bio: Edward Frenkel is a mathematician at UC Berkeley working on the interface of mathematics and quantum physics. He is the author of Love and Math: The Heart of Hidden Reality.

[@Rasa_b]

I remember i had a geometry book written by I.F Sharygin. I really enjoyed solving its problems.kudos to all USSR mathematicians who contributed to math and provided such valuable textbooks

[@douglasstrother6584]

Studying Geometry showed me that I could "do math".

[@Rasa_b]

@@douglasstrother6584 it shows you you can solve problems,more than just math.plato had inscribed above his academy "Let no one ignorant of geometry enter here"

[@douglasstrother6584]

@@Rasa_b Very true.

[@medved3027]

Interesting thing that also happened to me - physics made me appreciate the beauty of mathematics. Except in my case it was the theory of electromagnetic field. Absolutely gorgeous math in that field - nothing to add or remove, everything is just perfectly clear. Surface integrals, curve integrals, gradients, fluxes, etc. Another sub-field of physics with beautiful mathematics is signal processing (digital and analog), which I also studied. I also grew up in the USSR, but this was already in Russia. So the professors were Soviet (and very good), but the country no longer was.

[@douglasstrother6584]

Classical electrodynamics is my favorite subject (and was generally the hardest course!).

[@rsnsteamroller]

i would argue that the generalized stoke’s theorem and differential forms are worth adding (all the main theorems of vector calculus are special cases of integral of a form over a boundary of domain = integral of exterior derivative of that form over the domain)

[@rsnsteamroller]

and then it’s easier to sprinkle in ideas of algebraic and differential topology

[@rsnsteamroller]

also “electromagnetic fields are just the relativistic effect of electrical fields” direction is very beautiful. agree fully the electromagnetism and vector calculus are very inspiring, there’s just so much more to it that doesn’t just add on to classical results, but further streamlines and makes them even more elegant

[@aw92978]

Physics with Mathematics is beauty in heaven

[@tankerd1847]

Being interested in physics is also what in turn made me interested in mathematics, especially the link between kinematics and calculus. The notion of being able to predict motion down to an instant in time just made something click in my mind. When I was taking calculus II (trigonometric calculus and infinite series) I had a professor who told another student something along the lines of "Everything in the universe can be explained by a series of differential equations, we just don't know the vast majority of them." and that really stuck in my mind. You know, I see God in a way as a great scientist and mathematician, who sits before a great book in heaven writing the mathematical rules underpinning reality.

[@JohnSmith-yt8di]

His English is really good, and I know that sounds kind of condescending but he is fluent in English, and that can't be understated. Many people pass themselves off as being fluent when in reality they are 95% there. He is 100% there. Besides the accent he speaks so well and is very expressive, I can only imagine how well spoken he is in Russian. Curious if he speaks any other language, maybe Hebrew (he has a Jewish father).

[@aziaev]

Приколько смотреть как 2 наших чувака на английском говорят. И очень хорошо друг друга понимают. Мне особенно понятна речь Эдуарда, т.к. это как русский английскими словами =)

[@nuznikas]

Da to me too

[@alexanderkuptsov6117]

Есть, кстати, реверсный блог: Обрусевшие, там где ведущий - англичанин, и его гости - английские нэйтивы, говорят по-русски. Тоже прикольно смотрится.

[@vl4918]

​@@alexanderkuptsov6117не можете дать ссылку, пожалуйста

[@user-zv6ux8ju3v]

Чувствуется акцент

[@user-ju9bv4sd2j]

Они там розетовский камень- то нашли или нет?

[@doesntmatter964]

Studied during the fall of communism in Eastern Europe. The school was so tough and the students so good due to desperation. When your only way out is school, you would do a lot of things. That’s why there are a lot of good students from that period

[@Rudra-991]

No one can understand mathematics more than someone who wants to use it for some bigger end

[@punksapien]

not necessarily. many mathematicians exist that just do it for the sake of solving problems

[@jonforhan9196]

@@punksapien so the unsolved problems are the bigger end

[@idiosinkrazijske.rutine]

The prof presented the smart kid with the challenge (with a hint of mystery) - that's how it is done.

[@idiosinkrazijske.rutine]

To teach is to systematically motivate students to make their own discoveries. (Paraphrased from an intro of a math problem book).

[@pedrocasella2315]

I followed a similar path. Before high school, I was a very good student, could always pass exams and so on, but I was not interested in the specific subjects taught there, but I searched the internet and KZbin videos about things of out universe, like stars, planets and particles, although I only knew it qualitatively. When I was 15, I found an introductory book about physics, and in the last section, it explained a bit about Einstein theory of relativity. When it showed that you could find out the formula for time dilation by only using Pythagoras theorem, I found out that I could know about really nice stuff just using what I already knew, and I soon found out that learning new stuff was not that hard neither. In the path, I started really enjoying the mathematical language used in the things I used to see, so I decided to become a mathematical physicist.

[@ricardomichelenafernandez9641]

Book name?

[@pedrocasella2315]

@@ricardomichelenafernandez9641 "Física - Sampaio e Calçada"; It is a high school book in Brazil, very basic stuff

[@Lesminster]

Great guy. Such a pleasure to listen to.

[@Archaeopteryx_lithographica]

В СССР было 10 летнее образование : 1-3 класс начальное, 4-8 класс среднее звено, 9-10 класс старшеклассники. Математика изучалась с 1 по 10 класс по принципу усложнения уровня. 1-5 класс математика, 6-8 класс алгебра+отдельным предметом геометрия(планиметрия), 9-10 класс алгебра и начала анализа +геометрия(стереометрия) . В курс алгебры входил большой блок тригонометрии, решение уравнений и систем уравнений, исследование функций, интегральное и логарифмическое исчисление. В курсе геометрии обязательным было знание теорем и их доказательств, а также умение применять теоремы и свойства для решения задач. Физика 6-10 классы, химия 7-10 классы отдельными предметами. Очень высокий уровень требований к знанию теоретической части и применению для решения задач. Требовалось не только получить правильный ответ, но и верно записать ход решения , а также устно или письменно пояснить ход решения, привести необходимые формулы. Помню, получила 4 за контрольную работу при абсолютно правильном решении только за то, что сделала грамматическую ошибку в слове парабола. Как объяснила учительница, грамматические ошибки в математических терминах приравниваются к ошибкам в решении. На экзаменах и контрольных работах не допускалось использование калькуляторов, справочных материалов, все формулы, теоремы, свойства нужно было знать на память.

[@svetlanaknight2183]

Что да, то да…

[@valentinagarciafernandez9031]

I remember quite well my Piskunov's book . MIR Editorial, Moscow. I still have it on my shelf. 👌👍🙋‍♀️

[@vl4918]

Ночь, а мой сын решает задачу по физике ...а я гоню его спать и смотрю это видео

[@bappyhasanjahid4985]

😂😂😂.amazing buddy

[@shirinbas]

This is what smart people look like. Thank you Lex for the interview. Agreed that there are not enough people like Edward and nor is there enough interviews such as this one on good subjects. Please do more of these.

[@billyconnelly3568]

"This is what smart people look like" That's what a stupid person thinks smart people *look* like. Wtf are you saying?

[@ThomasTJ900]

Ikr , dimwitts everywhere these days ​@@billyconnelly3568

[@schlirf]

And a serbian instructor while attending a math course in Hartford CT who tried to how the "Soviet" method of Algebra. Really, really wish I could remember that formula. It was simple and elegant.

[@benwyse]

An American with a Russian accent interviewed by a Russian with an American accent. Aren't you confused yet?

[@DamirAsanov]

May be they both are Russian.

[@TheAlexBell]

They both from the USSR

[@benwyse]

@@TheAlexBell ! OK! Thanks!

[@benwyse]

@@DamirAsanov ! Thanks

[@vickyg7377]

This interview should have been in Russian and sous-titres.

[@magician_aleks2726]

At least 10 minutes would have been a treat for us fans😂

[@chunliangzhang2506]

Dr. Frenkel is definitely a smart and intelligent man who thinks no dictator have forced the people to say 2+2=5, at least not yet. Unfortunately there was this dictator in 2000 years ago China who pointed at a deer and said that's a horse. Then many ministers surrounding him agreed "yes, your grace, you are right. That's a horse!". Of course, there were some disagreed, but they were quickly killed afterwards. That's the closest thing I know that is the real-life example of 2+2=5.

[@fabz2347]

In Soviet Union, Mathmatics do you.

[@Cahangir]

underrated comment

[@Old_Jack_Ketch]

In Soviet Union, can lead horse to water and make drink. Horse drink very good when KGB have horse wife and children.

[@georgefischer8446]

Hello Edward, you left the Soviet Union and listening to you now, I am sure you must miss many things from that distant past. How many college teachers in those many small provincial towns of the US would even have the knowledge of the existence of a book as the one you were shown in your teenage story?

[@sindibadau]

well, I wrote "a small provincial town" not "a small province". Russia is a big country and it is possible that people commute 150km. So my comment holds: just name me a town 150km from NY with that quality of education :)@@super_street_fighter

[@pedrocasella2315]

I believe that the best way to define mathematics is the study of relation between concepts, regardless of what those concepts are. That is why I believe that this subject is so universal and general: it does not matter where you come from, when you were born or what are your beliefs, the fact that the eigenvectors of different eingenvalues of a matrix are LI is universal, and that is it!!

[@valentin5403]

Here is a simple question for the lovely audience here: If there are different parallel universes out there, there could be, I read somewhere, different basic laws of physics and the fundamental constants could be different. However the mathematics will be the same. Thus Pi=3.14... could be the same from universe to universe and same for all math constants. Could this be true?

[@mattd6200]

This guy is 55? Looks great.

[@DrWizardMother]

I understand what Frenkel was saying about math not changing, but his example of Euclidean distance somewhat disproves that idea. As he said, Newton's gravity was "replaced" by Einstein. But in reality, Newton's theory is the limit of Einstein's theory as gravity and speed approach zero. By the same token, Euclidean distance is the limit of the more general concept of distance on a manifold as the curvature approaches zero.

[@SnakeEngine]

Nice talk. But I am not sure that pythagoras theorem etc. means the same thing to everyone. Some people attach religious properties to mathematical relationships, others do not. Some people see certain related things connected to one, while other people see other related things. In general, there is no way of telling "this is the purest correct view on that thing". We can see even the most basic things from completely different perspectives. Thus, even the most basic things don't necessarily mean the same thing to different people. This is a very important insight I've had that helps me to fight my own arrogance.

[@maimedlord6999]

wisdom!

[@trickLUster]

Эдуард у Евгения Евгеньевича тоже математике начинал учиться… про наш родной город помнит.

[@frednewman2162]

I get stuck on stupid little things in interviews like this; They have book stores in little towns in Russia, that have books on quantum mechanics and physics? Hell, you would be hard pressed to find that in the US!

[@vl4918]

Это было в СССР и непродолжительное время после....и дешево

[@ethiop_frum]

in the USSR and in Russia, it was not necessary for small towns to have bookstores nearby! but there are still small libraries at the school, and libraries work in small villages. It should also be mentioned that the "small town of Kolomna near Moscow" now has a population of 133 thousand people! Usually, settlements of several thousand people receive the status of a city, and in the USA you can find cities of two or three hundred people.

[@Joker-no1uh]

I live in a town of 3k people in Iowa. I was born in 1989, and there have always been books on physics. I don't think there would be a library that doesn't.

[@renatabubyakirov9427]

Kolomna has 150K population, so they just add a little bit of countryside Russia romantic - little boy, little town, field full of grain and just a tip of science

[@johnlaudenslager706]

As a physician assistant I learned that even doctors have virtually no use for math: they/we remember approximate drug doses for various conditions and, considering the variability of human physiology, it's as effective as calculating doses. It made me think virtually nobody has use for math beyond addition, subtraction and maybe division, and geometry for some builders. Engineers and scientists need math, but they can learn it when they need it. Basic public education could skip algebra and hurt nothing?

[@janklaas6885]

📍8:00 YES, to figure out OBJECTIVE REALETY.

[@PS-ic4bp]

My daughter was so good at maths in Europe. Even in the US her teachers admire her intuitive grasp of the subject. However US education has destroyed any interest in our love for maths 😢. Here Its cool to say Maths is boring.

[@Eizengoldt]

Teach her linear algebra

[@rfvtgbzhn]

It's not just an US thing, it wasn't different when I was in school in Austria, also I know it's not different in Germany. I thing the main problems are: - they stuff a lot into the curriculum, so there isn't much time to make it more interesting (for example by showing real-world use cases) instead of just stuffing it into the students' heads. - the pedagogical training for people who study at the university to become teachers is very basic and probably not enough to learn how to be a good teacher, if you don't have some natural intuition for that.

[@natepeace1737]

There’s something about Lex’s voice that is just naturally calming. Am I right? 👇🏾

[@DavidImpatief]

I worked Soviet steel. I think they do the calcs and move the decimal point one place to the right, sometimes two.

I knew the kid in my backyard who was excellent in math and physics but became a lawyer.. so disappointing.

[@user-ph8kg1uj8e]

Lower than what?

lower that his talents :)@@user-ph8kg1uj8e

[@MCKBURNHOUSE]

this is why I love maths

[@aw92978]

Russians are gem in Mathematics🎉🎉

[@TheAlexBell]

They both Jewish in fact

[@DDtch6669]

Jews to not have some kind of superpower that they become genius in stuff. They are people just like anyone you know

[@svetlanaknight2183]

We had excellent teachers in USSR.😊

[@subodhgautam649]

You think what they teach u at school is mathematics...😊...this is mathematics...:::::#### greatest dialogue of all time.

[@paulogalhardo]

Name here your favourite URSS math books:

[@qlee50]

He makes a great point, mathematics is global, I would suspect physics and chemistry as well… or rather universal, somewhere out in the universe some alien child is learning the same math theorems in an alien school or home

[@ronrontall6370]

It worth to mention that soviet education was based on the education system of Russian Empire, they even used some of the same textbook, especially in Math. There was an education reform being prepared in Russia in 1910s to make edication more accessible, so basically the soviets used a lot of what had been done before them.

[@andrei666]

Nothing was done back then. Only ideas and show off, like in modern Russia. USSR just took everything that was practical and used it, not only from RI, but from othef countries too

[@Notrusbot]

no, in the Russian Empire there were elementary schools where they taught only reading. after that the person was considered literate, but only 40% of children from 9-12 years old studied there. in-depth study of subjects took place in paid schools and gymnasiums. In the Soviet Union, education for children using the best textbooks previously available to only a few thousand people out of 153 million inhabitants became compulsory and free.

[@IrishIwasJewish]

Hey,.one christian conservative is arguing​ that the Russian empire was alrdy industrializing before the soviet union. I guess his implication is that the empire was going to do what the ussr did but without all the death and war, how accurate is this? Like even if that were true, the feudal system would likely still remain and peasants remain peasants. Unlike in the USSR where, as you said, they made access to all this knowledge widely accessible to the masses. What other points can I use? I am learning more about communism @@Notrusbot

[@ronrontall6370]

@@Notrusbot You should check the information better because there were more than 125 thousand free schools in Russian by 1910, moreover 5 thousand schoools opened every year. They taught not only reading, but other subjects as math, physics, chemistry. All soviet school system was based on the Russian Empire school system and textbooks.

[@ronrontall6370]

In Russian Empire in 1910s they opened 5000 new schools every year. It's like 15-20 new schools each day. The soviets simply used the results reform which was made before them.

[@mk-jl3zd]

Persians where great in Math throughout history!

[@andrewkamoha4666]

[Title] Mathematics in the Soviet Union You have 5 apples. An American stole 4. How many apples are left?

[@giovannamoro8564]

The superiority of russian minds is very evident . I respect these people a lot . Very nice interview with a very intelligent man .

[@100c0c]

The German mind is superior in maths and physics.

[@magician_aleks2726]

​@@100c0c cap 🧢

[@franciscopereira2993]

@@magician_aleks2726 Not really. German and jewish minds give no chance to Russians. Saying this there is still a lot of top Russian minas

[@jyly261]

Ye it seems like they still put a lot of value in culture and inscience even with Putin ruling. Something that seems to be lost in western countries compared to a couple of decades ago. Now everyone just wants to become an engineer/business major to make money and don't care about knowledge.

[@griffith500tvr]

That's the most stupid comment I have read in years, you obviously know nothing about international science today. Looking at the Ukrainian war, I don't see the superiority of the Russian mind.

[@ejdo9989]

Impressive. No matter what it may be, math is still remain as the same. Russia’s real base.

[@JerrySeriatos]

Edvard fenkel..what race is that..a smart one for sure

[@fountain9886]

Suv could his dream of becoming theoretical physicist but didn't happen.

[@vl4918]

О...Коломна....

[@DaniGrappler]

There are interesting people who are not Jews too, Lex.

[@johnsnow9887]

They would me more organic speaking their native language

[@fredztuhh]

nahh English is just fine

[@luigimario4772]

You’re probably right but they’re gonna have a strong interest in being accessible to as many ears as possible and half the planet who doesn’t speak English natively learns English secondarily.

[@magician_aleks2726]

Lex knows Russian like that???😮

[@lulube11e111]

@@magician_aleks2726 lex is native russian speaker. He lived in russia till he was 11 years old.

[@vl4918]

Мне, как носителю русского, немного обидно читать про ваши придирки к акценту. Язык лишь средство коммуникации, а главное же знания предмета? Вы бы могли выучить русский на их уровне?

[@stanleyconnor6898]

Nice click bait, man, but there's nothing special about math in Soviet Union in this episode. Just a short story about some gifted boy who loved physics and how he suddenly met some other dude who loved math. This could happen in any country on Earth, even North Korea. 😐

[@markarmage3776]

Excuse me, that's not mathematics in the Soviet Union. That's mathematics in elementary education everywhere, doesn't matter if it's the Soviet Union, China or the US. Had he stayed till the college level, things would've changed to a more "creative approach", because exploration of knowledge at that level is the same everywhere. Please show some respect.

[@mykhailos6]

He studied maths in the university, what do you mean?

[@markarmage3776]

@@mykhailos6 No, but the title is wrong. What he was describing is mathematics in elementary education

[@mykhailos6]

@@markarmage3776 which for him, bit in a specialized school was in fact quite trivial. I don't think the title really describes the video well, but not because of the things you mention, but rather because it tells more about mathematics itself.

[@markarmage3776]

@@mykhailos6 What do you mean not because of what I said? That's not how mathematics is taught in Soviet Universities, some of the world greatest mathematicians right now comes from that system, which teaches people way more than what he's describing. Please show some respect. The universal seeking of knowledge is bigger than your petty prejudice.

[@mykhailos6]

@@markarmage3776 he studied maths in a soviet university...

[@Mikisoq39]

In soviet russia, math learns YOU You+crops+me=u r dæd & crops4me

[@skp8748]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pHe4dGOLjMyXfbs

[@maskirovkarokossovska45]

😂

[@MahmudYuldashev]

2 Russians talking English sounds wierd.

[@lazarduke6596]

physics is the science. mathematics is a tool.

[@RUSTA5]

🇷🇺❤️

[@Jain-rg3gl]

do you shit to technonegy in walk in .

[@yuval1588]

What?

[@kleyyer]

You lower humanity's IQ with your existence.

[@harrypewpew901]

Didn't this guy lose a bet because his calculation was wrong ?

[@allenmoses110]

Math is boring. Physics is a little better.

[@tankerd1847]

I don't think you can truly find math interesting without physics to conceptualize it, and I don't think you can truly understand physics without a significant understanding of math. They just go hand in hand.

[@jyly261]

Give the book Fermat's last theorem a go. It'll change your perspective on math and the beauty behind math and the history of it.

[@cookiecrumbles2948]

Two most boring characters

[@vladturov3572]

Sure…and yet somehow they got your attention and even made you spend time to watch and even to write a comment…hmmm I thought people who think these two are boring just skip the video and move on without paying any attention to it 🤷🏻‍♂️ but you did the opposite. Maybe they are not that boring then?

[@ellomirza]

Benjeath LoL

[@LexStrat]

вот это рофл, уехать из развалившейся страны в разваливающуюся

[@vladturov3572]

Ну да, наверное вы правы, «рофл» самый настоящий как вы выразились …с середины 90-х Америка все разваливается и разваливается, вот вот ей уже кирдык придет, вот уже 30 лет прошло, а она все разваливается и кирдык не приходит, как была первой экономикой мира, так и осталась, так глядишь до ее полного развала еще лет 100 пройдёт.