KINGDOM COME - Finding Humanity in the DC Comics Apocalypse

[@MattDraper]

Ending 2018 with the end(?) of the world. Enjoy!

[@daviddyster4145]

Matt Draper that was a great video essay to end on.

[@MattDraper]

Thank you!

[@АндрейЧмыхалов-ф8ц]

I'm thankful for this year, 'cuz i found your channel ;)

[@MattDraper]

Thank you! I really appreciate it.

[@Gemnist98]

Of all the DC stories I want to see become films, this is the top of the list.

[@bighuge1060]

I love the ending of this story. Just Diana, Clark and Bruce in the diner. It's the most human and warmest part of this great story.

[@ardenaudreyarji]

I thought it’s the part where Superman let Captain Marvel choose the fate of the world.

[@domgeek5632]

Also Bruce tricking Clark into thinking Lex sends him good wishes. Now that's a good joke.

[@randomknowledgeperson2872]

now, i have never cried to any story since i was 8 years old. i just don’t get emotional over stories. books, movies, comics, they can make me laugh and cheer and yell but for some reason never cry. But when I saw that one gram where superman put on the glasses for the first time in decades, well, i’ll admit that i got pretty misty there. Mark Waid said that when him and the artist and the person who was overseeing this whole comic were at dinner talking all for the first time this is what he was thinking: “Alex’s story we decided, was about the sin of the superheroes committed the day they divorced themselves from their own humanity, and the struggle they will encounter in trying to restore their human souls. We were all on the same page there at least. But Alex, Dan and Archie were off talking about the middle. And that’s not how I work. I’m not much of a “let’s see where this takes me” writer. I always have to have an end firmly in mind when I write-that one image, that one payoff but that brings the story home and moves not just the reader, but me as well. I need that one panel, that one moment, that shows me the triumph of the heroes were working towards. “ as dessert came and went, all the excruciating self generating noise about which Sandman we were going to use and who Robotman ought to be and whether green lanterns rang would work in a fight against Ray... all of that lost its significance as one crystal clear image nudged its way into my head. “An image of superman putting on a forgotten pair of glasses and becoming Clark Kent once more. “And in that moment, my mind wasn’t anywhere near the story. “But my heart was all over it “I was in.”

[@comicfanboy6937]

@@randomknowledgeperson2872 why doesn’t this beautiful well thought out comment get a heart

[@trhansen3244]

Dat fou

[@OwenLikesComics]

I love this comic. I love this video. I love this guy.

[@MattDraper]

Thank you, Owen! Here's to a great 2019 for both of us.

[@ThatOneGuy7550]

same

[@hiranom20]

Civil War before Civil War Civil-Warred. I've no idea why WB haven't done an animated movie on this as yet. And on Red Son.

[@FromeFmAjayD]

Sean Taylor good luck trying to animate a Kingdom Come film and doing it justice to the Alex Ross style.

[@hiranom20]

@@FromeFmAjayD It doesn't need to look exactly like Ross' work. There are many animation styles that would suffice. Look at how well they blended CGI traditional animation in Into the Spider-verse.

[@lewisaino]

@@hiranom20 I mean do it in the New Frontier Style.

[@Xehanort10]

Magog looks like and has a similar name to a minor Superman villain called Gog who in an alternate future was a kid called William who was saved by Superman after Kansas was destroyed by a nuclear weapon and formed a religion based on Superman. But when Superman saw William's church to him he told him he didn't want to be worshipped as a god. His hero not wanting to be a deity drove William insane and being given power and knowledge by the Quintessence made him worse and he became Gog and wanted to kill all versions of Superman across reality out of spite that Superman didn't like his obsessive fanboyism.

[@BoggarthVT]

Lobo was a villain, and a parody of the dark and gritty nature of the day and age.

[@MrSecretSentai]

Sucks that Alex Ross mostly does covers now wouldn't mind if he did some interiors again

[@MattDraper]

Yeah, I wish he did another full book. I bet it takes a really long time, so doing covers is a way to do consistent work and get that money. I can’t blame him.

[@MrSecretSentai]

@@MattDraper Hey ever gonna do a video about the best super hero team the X-Men?

[@MattDraper]

I have a story in mind and want to cover X-Men in the next few months 👍

[@johnathonhaney8291]

Another book Ross is active on is Astro City as character designer AND cover artist. He even made one cover on that recently wrapped series the first panels of the story inside. Can't recommend it enough.

[@khailart8858]

Takes a long time. I don’t think Marvel or DC has the patience. But they should invest in him. Pair him with a great writer and give him enough time, and he won’t disappoint.

[@agentofxehanort]

This and All-Star Superman were the books that made me realize why people look up to the Man of Steel.

[@MarkQuick0411]

agentofxehanort Kingdom Come and All Star Super Man are Quintessential DC story’s

[@ardenaudreyarji]

People don't understand Superman anymore.

[@bluelocimon]

Another story that i really recomend you is "Peace On Earth" is really a beautiful tale of Superman

[@YaMamasAss]

@@ardenaudreyarji For real. The edgelord take on him that so many writers have is painful to see.

[@twilightzoneseinfeld]

Ambi Dextrose Facts

[@legendbemyname1638]

Alex Ross art is beyond beautiful.

[@rcbmmines4579]

Kingdom Come is a masterpiece. I only wish that one day, they would faithfully adapt it into a film, animated or live action as long as they do their best to honor Alex Ross’ beautiful work. In many ways Kingdom Come is everything many modern comics try to do when they attempt to copy Watchmen by adding grey areas to the stories and characters for deconstruction. The difference is Kingdom Come reconstructs afterwards, it gives something as well as taking away. It respects what these heroes mean to people and that shows.

[@MarkQuick0411]

RCBM Mines In DCs current state they don’t have wht it takes unless there’s someone out there willing too with passion What if instead a critique on Comics at that time it’s a critique on the Way that DC has been struggling to make a good movie for a long time

[@nonamer29]

I always thought that if they were to make a film from this material, that the graphic novel should be used all the way through. No need for a rewrite of a scene, or any alterations because I felt like the book was perfect. With how Warner Bros. has handled its DC property, I hope they NEVER touch this story or even think that it should be made into a feature film. The disservice would be too great.

[@Jeyndow]

This would be a great film. I'd like it to be animated and make it like an Into The Spider-Verse level of animation

[@TheExecutioner21]

didn't bvs take inspiration?

[@mandalorianhunter1]

@@TheExecutioner21 No, it was Death of Superman and The Dark Knight Returns, which they both butchered.

[@7142320]

Kingdom Come is a legendary book. The picture of Superman and the Justice Society descending from the sky like graceful gods will never not give me goosebumps.

[@westmcgee9320]

Phillip C I think it’s what DC wanted in their movies but they blinked. Too bad.

[@wrestlinganime4life288]

@@westmcgee9320 OK we get it

[@panthergod]

@@westmcgee9320 .. they failed with a self loathing Superman and Old broken murderer Batman. Period.

[@jmgonzales7701]

i love the fact that it was justice society not jla.

[@moonknight4053]

Lol in marvel vs dc run, marvels heroes noted how dc heroes are places on a huge pedestal…. And that marvels heroes don’t have statues like dc do

[@WorgenGrrl]

Before there was "Injustice" there was "Kingdom Come"

[@GeneralKenobi75]

Except Kingdom Come is much better.

[@thecollector4332]

Injustice sucks ass compared to kingdom come.

[@xenoherder6491]

@@thecollector4332 I agree and I like injustice

[@lewisaino]

Kingdom Come is Superman still being the Hero people look up to, Injustice is revenge.

[@tanyaharmon6739]

@@lewisaino or just bad writing

[@AlejandroSilva-mr7yy]

God, I shed a tear every time I see that hug between Clark and Bruce, every single time.

[@MattDraper]

Such a great moment to cap off this story. A lot of healing in that hug.

[@mr.dccomics9018]

Understandable. It was a great moment.

[@AlejandroSilva-mr7yy]

@TonyDracon at the very end of the comic

[@kyriss12]

The part that always sticks out to me is the justice League confronting Magog in Kansas. They show up expecting a fight only to find Magog stressing himself out trying to build something for once. And within the span of a single page he goes through the whole spectrum of grief from false bluster blaming superman for abandoning the world, then starts trying to justify himself by claiming he was trying to be give people the justice they demanded, and finally breaking down in tears at superman's feet begging to be punished.

[@paulovargas3542]

@@kyriss12 that scene was everything, the amount of character development they pulled off in 2 pages was insane

[@jackalope2302]

Kingdom Come is quite possibly the greatest comic book story I have ever read.

[@joshuafogg6600]

Jack Alope I would tend to concur. And that is why I am sad with the direction that Mark Waid has recently gone down. A great writer, turned into a horrible person.

[@minggnim]

#2. Marvels #1.

[@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259]

@@joshuafogg6600 what happened to him

[@ProjektTaku]

eh, I think whatever happened to the man of tomorrow and what's so funny about truth, justice & the american way are better.

[@internetrambo1069]

Same bro, same.

[@DoctorInk20]

Nicely said, sir. *Kingdom Come* is the reason I strongly dislike *Watchmen* these days. Alan Moore deconstructed superheroes and concluded it in the *most bitter way possible.* Mark Waid took the whole genre in the aftermath of Watchmen and the Dark Knight Returns, then *reconstructed* it to remind us why we *love* these characters. May they never leave us.

[@Seasonal-Shadow_4674]

Imagine Phil Sheldon(Marvels) and Norman Mccay(from Kingdom Come) having a conversation about superheroes

[@MaggieCandy999]

@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 I’d read a whole series on just that alone.

[@Seasonal-Shadow_4674]

@@MaggieCandy999 imagine if Alan Moore wrote it 😂😂

[@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259]

Wow.

[@paulakroy2635]

Grant Morrison also does this

[@monitor-mindtheover-void6712]

This is exact condition superhero comics/movies are facing now. Good superheroes are considered boring, mass murderers are loved and licked by hipsters, stupid writers like BMB and Tom King are forcing unnecessary realism into great comics, to make movies more epic and visually catchy, entire characters of superheroes are changed just like in BvS and Ragnarok, and decades of history which made superheroes so popular are just getting erased to make garbage storylines relevant.

[@K1ng1995]

What was wrong with Ragnorock? Wisecrack makes some pretty good points on how it's secretly Marvel's smartest movie.

[@monitor-mindtheover-void6712]

@@K1ng1995 yes, its a great and possibly the most fun "Marvel" movie because its funny, but it will never be a great "Thor" movie, because when you have to change the very core of a main character to fit the plot rather than letting the character get absorbed and evolve according to the plot, you have done the biggest injustice to the character, that's why first Thor movie is considered so amazing, it does justice to Thor by letting him grow and by the end he has grown-up. Now look at Ragnakor, take away all the funny scenes and you will have a good plot but it will just be part 2 of the dark world, it will still be a better movie than part 2 but it will loose 3/4th of its significance just by removing all the unnecessary funny scenes (which Ragnarok is filled with), and the rest 1/4th good part will remain which is pretty solid plot with scenes like Thor becoming god of thunder etc, but no one will care about it, because most people don't cares about plot, they are just there for CGI fight sequences and unnecessary funny scenes. Even you and I will call it bad, trust me, only filling that movie with funny scenes in every other scene made it hit. That's why it will never be a great "Thor" movie.

[@kathleenhensley5951]

I was thinking the same thing... it's actually what we are facing in 2024. A generation that disdains morals and self-discipline... violent stories and characters,Mocking real heroism, lack of light, Superman fights a battle with Zod in the middle of Metropolis without attempting to move the fight somewhere else ? The 2020s are going to be a nightmare decade long remembered if it doesn't end with a nuclear war. I've not read comics in decades, but I'd be tempted to read this one.

[@GreenThingonTV]

Waid's thesis can be summarized from the following quote from the book: BATMAN (after hearing that the gulag inmates are rioting): You mean to tell me you never imagined it might come to this? Did you ever consider that a war might be for the best? That perhaps humanity's only chance is for the Super-humans to swallow each other? SUPERMAN: Don't give me that! The deliberate taking of human - even Super-human - life goes against every belief I have - and that you have. That's the one thing we've always had in common. It's what made us what we are. More than anyone in the world, when you scratch everything else away from Batman, you're left with someone who doesn't want to see anybody die. We can still intercede. Gather your forces. Together we can be the World's Finest team. Tell me you'll help me. BATMAN: I will tell you this one thing. There's a player you haven't counted on. Captain Marvel. SUPERMAN: Marvel...? BATMAN: He's been brainwashed... severely. Once, there was a good kid inside him, but he's been driven out - and I don't know how you'd ever find him again. I see what you did there Mark Waid.

[@joshuafogg6600]

Jeff Holloway Holy sh*t. Is that Mark referring to himself?

[@TheEndKing]

@@joshuafogg6600 Or it's about Marvel, the comic company.

[@thereviewersblock7459]

@@TheEndKing no, I think it’s referencing how the kids reading comics at the time (much like Captain Marvel) have lost their way. Moving away from ideals and humanity of superheroes and focusing more on the extremities of the characters. Like what Waid said at 10:58. You could put Marvel Comics in this lot as well since Mcfarlane and Liefeld were edging it up at Marvel (the Overkill character video comes to mind).

[@natereynolds2783]

That's batman in a nutshell

[@ProjektTaku]

@@thereviewersblock7459 and it makes even more sense when you consider that captain marvel was based upon superman, like how many kids were inspired by superman, but they lost their way, believing in harsher superheroes.

[@DJNLdabest]

My personal favorite comic book. This story made love the DC universe and Superman forever. The first time I read it, thought it was only a good story. But time passed and while thinking and really analyzing the story, I figured that Kingdom Come was a masterpiece of comic books. If the DC universe was to have an ending, this would be it.

[@MattDraper]

I had a similar experience! Probably read this for the first time 15 years ago and enjoyed it, but really unpacked it over several rereadings over the years.

[@Chessheromusic]

So what do you think of civil war? Which people are yelling at me , is a very very different story?!!?

[@nomnomgoblin8901]

I dunno if i'd consider Lobo among all the gritty edgy 90s antiheroes, as he always felt to me as a parody of such, mostly made to be edgy to the max for the sake of it.

[@nomnomgoblin8901]

@Revan Agree... that being said considering how hyper-edgy the DCEU is maybe they should just go whole hog with it in a Lobo movie.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

With the full knowledge that I may come off as an old fogie myself, I think that the message of superheroes as a concept losing its way that lies at the heart of Kingdom Come is even more relevant than ever. All I see in comics is a repeat of the same pointless fights by the same immature fans waged for the same reasons they were in the 1990s. What gets lost in the scuffle is how, like Kingdom Come's final battle, there can be no real winners, just varying states of losing. Times are once again changing and the combatants once again are ignoring the root causes. Would it be possible to see a review of Justice, the Ross-illustrated (with a heavy assist by Dougie Braithwaite), Jim Krueger-penned 12 part miniseries that a friend of mine once rightly called "the best Silver Age written in the modern era"?

[@MattDraper]

This is beautiful. I love it. "Justice" is great! I need to give it a reread and see if I have a perspective on it before I plan on doing a video, but I really enjoy it. Will probably do "Marvels" first, unless something changes.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@MattDraper "Marvels" is a solid second choice, my friend, my intro to the brilliance that is Ross and Kurt Busiek.

[@nivaldomonte5441]

Matt Draper by all means, do it. My personal take, from the top of my head, would focus on 2 aspects of the comic. These are mere suggestions and topics you can address individually, if you think they are worth it, and maybe insert on your video. 1-The heroes genuinely care about the villains. I think the most explicit case of it is in Wonder Woman trying to save Cheetah from herself. It's the kind of stuff that we see Batman and Superman successfully pull only once in a few years, and when it works, it's great. It allows for sympathy towards the "no-killing rule", which goes really well with Kingdom Come, as well as other stories that address this ethical issue and the lingering cynicism within comicbooks. In fact, this story might as well be a prequel to Kingdom Come, with it's heroes in their classic looks, seemingly in their prime, and old-fashioned but lasting sense of "morals over violence" being the core of heroism. The only reason to say it isn't is that Justice is meant to be timeless, in that the art of the comic, not too unlike Kingdom Come, avoids reflecting on technological limitations that could characterize the time period being presented. Probably an Alex Ross thing. 2-The villains are, in my honest opinion, an allegory to post-modern socialists - and yes, I am arguing it must have been intentional. Luthor and his partners claim to mean well, but ultimately, it's yet another power scheme. Last I read it, it's implied that the cities have centralized planning - the economic and administrative trademark of anticapitalist regimes. Some of the villains also seem to represent different aspects of the so-called "New Left" and it's social agendas. Observe how Black Manta, Aquaman's main villain, whose trademark is his hatred, focuses said hatred on ethnical conflict by the end of the story. It's likely that he represents the resentment in black americans towards the general concept of Western Civilization and capitalist society, effectively being an embodiment of cultural isolation and growing prejudice towards "the white man". If I recall correctly, Manta blames Aquaman and the likes of him for the misery of "his people", and he is rejected by black civilians in the same scene. It might even be a direct jab at the Black Panther movement, that claimed to protect black people from racial oppression, but has a history of violent anti-cop rhetoric and actual murder investigations, to say the least, that allow it's morality and intentions to be thoroughly questioned. In that same light, Poison Ivy is probably there to represent environmentalism, whilst Pamela is one of Batman's most inhumane villains, being a known misanthrope. I distinctly remember that G. K. Chesterton, a conservative and catholic writer of note, once argued that "wherever there is animal worship, there will be human sacrifice". Chesterton essentially foresaw that the constant worry about non-human issues, like environmentalism and animal rights, would prove to be hypocritical, because many of it's supposedly humane activists would be (and effectively are) pro-abortion as a "reproductive right". You may disagree with his argument (despite the results of the cultural change actually reflecting what he expected) or with the apparent goal of the comic, but Justice indeed seems to represent a different side to american politics than, say, the excellent New Frontier, that you already evaluated. While New Frontier shows McCarthyism as an issue that negatively affects superheroes and essentially exists as paranoia, one can interpret Justice as making a more subtle but still-existent argument that such a stance can be seen as necessary in a world where superpowers seek to scheme against against our heroes and lord over the people, under the lie that they'll take good care of the civilians that embrace the life in their cities. Albeit in different ways, just as New Frontier and Kingdom Come, it's a very 50's vision upon superheroes - and it's a part of why it works so well. I hope this comment will be seen as helpful in some manner. Best of wishes.

[@cordellsenior9935]

I think one thing that's been lost is something Jack Kirby said in one interview: (paraphrasing) "In my stories, the hero wins. He (or she) faces and goes through daunting adversities and in the end they overcome them." When I heard that, I realized that as a kid, that's one of the main draws to me; was to watch the heroes face their fights against unbelievable odds and in the end, win. The lines have become blurred. Villains are as popular as the heroes now (2 movies planned about The Joker; really?) Wolverine made it cool to be a homicidal maniac. Before that, heroes almost never did what The Punisher does on an daily basis; laying casual waste to humanity. In Shakespeare's tragedies, the protagonist heroes die. All else, is comedy. I'm glad Alex Ross recognizes the trashy absurdities of Rob Liefeld and all those in his orbit. (Yes, I mean McFarlane, and nearly all of those Image Comics dudes.) Excelsior!

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@cordellsenior9935 NEVER liked Mcfarlane.

[@FabledHeroes3351]

This really is DC’s greatest story hands down

[@ardenaudreyarji]

This is more relevant now more than ever. Look at what happened with the DC heroes in the films, especially Superman snapping Zod's neck. Batman killing a lot of people.

[@roquetolozajr3296]

Agreed

[@raycom201]

Ambi Dextrose What is so wrong with Superman killing Zod. He’s done it before and it made sense why he killed him.

[@thebigwagyu]

The New Frontier would like a word

[@buhnana6117]

@Darkgoon 2004 because the general public think this is how these heroes normally are. Superman isn’t a boring god and Batman isn’t an antihero with no regard for human life.

[@DzustComics]

You know what? I really like communicating on your videos, since they are always amazing and you respond regularly. So this time I'm just gonna wish you happy holidays. Better late than never!

[@MattDraper]

Thank you! I really appreciate that. Happy holidays to you, too!

[@KINGBADASS100]

It’s kind of sad to me how prescient this story is still, maybe even now more than in the 90’s with Zack Snyder’s movies. It’s like nobody learnt anything from this.

[@fulcrum6760]

LORDBADASS If the DC made an animated movie of this then Zack will feel called out.

[@mayotango1317]

I think Marvel comics is worst now.

[@joeyhuebner10]

In my opinion, a lot of people equate dark with mature. This comic and The New Frontier were vastly superior to most DC stories told on screen, yet all throughout was a theme of hope and the betterment of humanity. I have nothing against dark stories, but it gets so tiresome to read or watch characters be edgy without any of the impact.

[@djalexander7723]

Alex Ross should be considered a talented artist. The war at the end of Kingdom Come could be compared to paintings of Greek gods. People shouldn't overlook his artwork because they are "just comics". His work is just incredible to see.

[@theyakkoman]

Good video. One thing you didn't bring up (though I can't blame you, this is the kind of work you can look at through many different lenses and angles it's better to keep it focused) that I find interesting with this work is its sistership with Kurt Busieks and Alex Ross "Marvels". One focuses on the past, one on the future, both dissect their respective universe (DC and Marvel) and both are drawn by Ross. Also, both look at their universes from the POV of an everyman (Norman McCay for KC, Phil Sheldon for M). However, the profession of the everyman reflects what many people have said are the main different draw of the two universes. Sheldon is a photographer, and a newspaper one at that. Marvels approach was long put as "Superheroes in the real world". They hung out in a very real New York, no Gothams or Metropolises here, and often dealt with real and common day issues. Like Peter Parker struggling to pay rent or find time to study for an important test. While McCay in KC is a preacher, and DC's characters has long been called "gods" or godlike, and many writers have written up on that aspect (Dark Knight Returns having been called a Ragnarök for Batman, Superman as a Jesus-figure is almost a cliché by now, Wonder Woman comparing the Justice League to the Olympus in Justice League: War, I can go on). Or, as some has put it, Marvel has Characters, DC has Icons.

[@MattDraper]

This is great! Very good analysis. I didn’t want to add more to the video by talking about Marvels, but I feel similar to you about their similarities and differences. Maybe I’ll discuss more when I cover Marvels in a video.

[@iloathepeoplewhorestilltal2774]

theyakkoman my emotional depth for what a comic can make me understand has gotten a bit deeper, your statement rings true, thank you for that

[@ProjektTaku]

I see the appeal of dc as OP heroes who are regular people, and that's not a bad thing. While some people may say overpowered characters like superman are boring, the truth is that it just requires a better writer, and character's like superman who's ridiculously powerful, but he's also very relatable, as a farm boy who moved to the big city to become a reporter. Same for flash. Can literally run as fast as he needs to, but his humane family and life grounds him.

[@acereporter73]

I remember turning the page and seeing Capt. Marvel standing over Superman... it sent chills down my spine.

[@TheDJMysterE]

That smile was erie

[@pudlordtynan919]

Superman, Batman and all their Super Friends will always be relevant.

[@Cdr2002]

Well said.

[@p4rt_t1me_g0d]

I have to admit, though I like Marvel characters more, Kingdom Come is my favorite comic story of all time!

[@MaggieCandy999]

Same here.

[@andreadesmocedici]

"We live in society, where honor is a distant memory" "Isn't that right, Superman"

[@n2bfw884]

I was very fortunate to be able to meet Alex Ross, his parents Clark and Lynette Ross, Frank Kasy and Mark Waid at Chicago Comic Con. They were all very willing to talk with fans. It was a great experience!!

[@112steinway]

It's funny that the video talks about how Waid and Ross were reacting to the comics of their time when writing "Kingdom Come" and it reminds me of Alan Moore talking about how he was reacting to the comics of his time by making "Watchmen" deconstructionist and dark, thus paving the way for the grim and gritty comics of the 90's. I've heard some people say that "Kingdom Come" is the anti "Watchman" and I can't help but agree.

[@NEON-XMV]

Kingdom Come remains one of my all time favorite comics, definitely top 5 for me, Ross artwork is masterful and the story is one of DC's best

[@ilitardo160]

The message of this story is extremely ironic considering Waid's behavior now.

[@JBBGeek]

What’s interesting about Kingdom Come was that it was the future of the DC Universe back in 1996. However, when a sequel was being planned, Mark Waid and Alex Ross were clashing so much that Ross left the project, which became The Kingdom, which came out in 1999. It’s a very “meh” series, and there is somewhat of a narrative disconnect between The Kingdom and Kingdom Come. The main purpose of The Kingdom was to make it an alternate universe by introducing Hypertime. Now, Kingdom Come, as of 20 years ago, is an alternate continuity. Of course, the JSA Thy Kingdom Come arc is the true sequel in my eyes. That all being said, Kingdom Come is my favorite comic book of all time.

[@astrostar49]

Best comic book I ever read. This turned me into a Mark Waid fan, and he's remained my favorite comic writer ever since.

[@DSan-kl2yc]

I think it was Alex Ross' touch that helped waid and the story.

[@terribled]

Clark's line, "I'm not a god. . . " still gets me every time.

[@martinnicolasfasanelli9783]

May I ask you...How do you interpret that whole "judgment-upon-apocalypse" monologue? Because I do feel the text bubbles is Superman's statement. but, on the other hand, the squared-off voice belongs to McCay's rethoric. So...Does Clark really claim "I'm not a man...I'm not a God" simultanously? Or is it a shared mulling between McCay (human) and Superman (Godlike metahuman).

[@omegaink5635]

Your video was lovely. Alex Ross is in my top favorite artist of all time...

[@MattDraper]

Thank you!

[@MutantsInDisguise]

This miniseries is critical of the amoral and edgy heroes that were prominent during the 90's.

[@Dalamr]

look at present-day manga/anime and you'll see those kinds of "heroes" too.

[@SafeeLone]

Also see DC New 52/DCEU and current DC titles. Every hero is now edgy and dark.

[@joshuafogg6600]

Safee Lone Especially with the god-awful Heroes in Crisis event going on.

[@Dalamr]

@@TheKatanarama it just means those types of "heroes" are popular today. at the top of my head, Naruto series has the popular "hero" Sasuke who is the very embodiment of edginess. most if not all of the top ranking "heroes" of One Punch Man are in it for the ratings. and the villain Stain in My Hero Academia had a grudge against heroes because he believes they have strayed from the the path heroes should be taking and went to care only about popularity.

[@cakebear9534]

@Killraven so there should be a Kingdom Come for manga?

[@Chandasouk]

I'm out of work for the time being because of the government shutdown but a Matt Draper video makes it a bit better!

[@MattDraper]

That sucks, man. But I'm glad I could brighten up your day!

[@johnathonhaney8291]

May your job return soon, friend!

[@agentofxehanort]

I'm sorry that happened. I hope you return to work soon.

[@Chandasouk]

@@MattDraper Many thanks. I love all your videos and you are criminally underrated. I'm still waiting for your and NerdSync to collaborate one day!

[@Chandasouk]

@@johnathonhaney8291 Thanks! The only thing I can do is file for some unemployment and wait until this is resolved. This shutdown did light a fire under my ass to get a new job though xD

[@renegadedjinn5325]

It's great to see a review of one of Mark Waid's best works before... you know...he became such an asshole. Great vid by the way. Consider me subscribed.

[@julioacceus253]

Better than the Last Jedi. By far.

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

Not like surpassing the last Jedi is a hard task.

[@constantdoodle32]

It would've been nice if DC would've gotten thier act together and eventually made this movie after establishing a good cinematic universe.

[@kommissar.murphy]

I can't understand how this isn't the goal. That actors are all in place, snyders visuals are already influenced by this.

[@jtcob8486]

It would be better for a high-budget mini-series or a trilogy of films, I don't think it would work with only one film.

[@wrestlinganime4life288]

@@kommissar.murphy Snyder has nothing to do with this. Only Patty Jenkins get the DC lore so far.

[@myrnacaraig2681]

So basically it's a diss towards Rob Liefeld and Image?

[@fulcrum6760]

Beowulf Macbethson Yes.

[@panthergod]

Well, all of the overly edgy and badly done imitations of Alan Moore and Frank Miller.. they had the talent to do it well... even Alan Moore reslversed course when he saw the negative effect his influence had with the series 1963, Supreme, and Americas Best Comics. Snyder was trying to be Chris Nolan/Alan Moore/Frank Miller in tone, ,but he's really Michael Bay/Rob Liefeld in his hack worldview.

[@kommissar.murphy]

The artwork in this was just awe-inspiring. I've seen nothing since that produced the same sensation. It still is the sistine Chapel of comics.

[@nathandelacruz5639]

The only crime against humanity in this video, aside from the bomb and numerous other attacks, is Supermans ponytail

[@TuanNguyen-ko9wz]

The ending has several beats that brought me to tears of joy (the Sup vs. Capt. Marvel talk before the bomb, McCay's U.N. confrontation with Sup, how Sup talks about Capt. Marvel). Also, there's a small, fantastic moment when the Trinity order their drinks.

[@Jew_Gi_Oh]

Spicy Take: The best "evil" versions of Superman are Soviet Dictator Superman, Nazi Superman, and when Superman pretends to be evil at the end of Superman vs The Elite. Injustice Superman is a fuckin cartoon villain. Hell, Soviet Communist Superman and even Nazi Superman have better moral compasses and humanity than the Injustice one who was raised by the fuckin KENTS! Soviet Superman finds out about the gulags and purges then vaporizes Stalin with his heat vision. He then is horrified, guilt ridden, and starts crying because it was the first time he took a life. Soviet Superman then shuts down the gulags and becomes the next dictator of the Soviet Union. Nazi Superman after helping the Nazis and Germans invade and conquer the United States comes back to Europe years later to discover the Nazis death camps which disgusts and horrifies him because he realized the role he played in all of this. Nazi Superman then tears down the Nazis concentration camps. Even versions of Superman that were raised by Stalin and the Nazis grew up to be closer to the Superman we all know and love rather than the Injustice one that murders his own friends just for arguing with him! Fuck the shitty Injustice games and comics!

[@Qardo]

Who knew that comic books could play off the Bible so masterfully and does not thump the Bible but show it can show the liking of Anti-Hero. It is destructive.

[@LiveNiceness14]

Kingdom Come is a god damn masterpiece. I don’t even compare this to the Earth-X Series Marvel did. Even having Kingdom Come Superman join with the JSA in that crossover series was just golden.

[@omarrashid9588]

Finally! Someone made a video about Kingdom Come.

[@gregorblack5557]

TWILIGHT OF THE GODS by Moore

[@MattDraper]

A topic I’d love to do a video on some day

[@Jaebird88]

I would argue that Thy Kingdom Come is still worth reading as a companion piece to this story. It even adds on to the epilogue from Kingdom Come with new depictions of that timeline's future.

[@morganyoung3557]

The story sounds really interesting and the artwork is gorgeous, I want to try to read it.

[@GeneralKenobi75]

You should. It's a great showcase of the different generations of DC heroes and a commentary of how the Dark Age of Comics was ruining the industry.

[@jaredgarcia8638]

To me, Kingdom Come, The New Frontier, and Doomsday Clock have a lot to say about DC.

[@joeyhuebner10]

Absolutely! I honestly miss how a character like Batman was portrayed in these and the Animated Series by Bruce Timm. He was sympathetic without losing any of the mystique or charisma (or violence) that makes him so popular. The cinematic universe made batman the embodiment of cynicism instead of what he truly stands for. His cynicism is bred from being around and seeing good people turn wicked. But his faith in humanity, in these comics, is apparent all throughout and I think is what really should be elaborated upon in future movies.

[@jaredgarcia8638]

@@joeyhuebner10 that really sucks

[@shazamrjf]

There was only one true hero in that book..... Captain Marvel! How majestic was he?? And now we have new 52 shazam!! What a joke! Long live the original Captain Marvel! 🌩🌩🌩🌩🌩

[@LiveNiceness14]

Richard Frankland I thought New 52 was rebooted.

[@shazamrjf]

Niceness_of_Gemini new 52 shazam and characters are a shadow of the original Captain Marvel. A creation of DC and Captain Thunder combined. Everything is basically twisted or lost from the original. For me it’s not an improvement or a type of evolution of the character but DC has systematically dismantled the big red cheese to create their own version. There was nothing wrong with Captain Marvel apart from the fact that he wasn’t created by DC.... this is strictly just my opinion. 👍👍

[@humbleopinion43samurai19]

More than ever, Kingdom come is more than a comic. It's a symbolism of our infinite possibility. With powers or non, this Series shows our best in our worse and worse in our best. But at the end of Pandora box, there is Hope.

[@spencermalley10]

Anyone else agree this is pretty much Mark Waid's opus?.

[@MrRobot-0]

But infortunely he seems to dont lisent his how cautionary tale nowadys. I rey like this story trough.

[@AdamTheTiger]

If you are reading this, I hope you have or had an AWESOME day 😊 AdamTheTiger 🐯

[@drew6874]

I believe Kingdom Come marked the end of The Dark Age of Comics.

[@Xortopower]

An now is the oblivion of absolute despair and mediocrity.

[@kirbymarchbarcena]

I've been a DC Captain Marvel fan but it saddens me that he is usually the sacrificial lamb to a great plot like Kingdom Come, Injustice and many other despite that he was considered equal or better than Supes. DC has forgotten the attributes of Cap since he is poorly written. He has the Wisdom of Solomon yet they write him more as a kid; he has the strength of Hercules but he could not even remove the steel bars that pinned him when he faced Marvel's Thor, instead, he reverted back to Billy just to escape the debris; the power of Zeus-which makes him invulnerable to magic attacks yet he yielded to the lasso of truth and reverted back to Billy by Aquaman's trident; the stamina of Atlas should have been helpful for making Cap untiring and physically invulnerable but in the Justice League Unlimited series, Supes easily outmatched him to the point that he got bruises, heck, Supes even lobotomized him in Injustice despite numerous incidents wherein he was unaffected with Supe's heat vision; and, the speed of Mercury makes Cap faster than Supes but not enough to dodge Wonder Woman's attacks in Flashpoint and even has a large scar on his face.

[@shazamrjf]

kirby march barcena I believe in flashpoint that was actually captain thunder and not the actual captain marvel as we know. But you are spot on about absolutely everything else. 👍👍

[@SnapperChannel]

Great way to end off 2018 with one of DC’s best stories. It’s been a pretty fantastic year for your channel and I’ve been glad to comment on these amazing videos. Here’s to more great videos from you in the next year. P.S. Do you have any plans yet for 2019?

[@MattDraper]

Thank you for the kind words and thank you for all the support! I have plans for January and February so far, which will be more comic books. After that, probably back to movies, TV, and animation, but I don’t have those locked in just yet. We’ll see!

[@76hellspawn]

Kingdom come made superman my fav. The story means more to me then watchmen

[@anthonybranch4712]

I have always looked at Kingdom Come purely as a critique of the comics industry itself, and the glorification of mindless violence and morally ambiguous "heroes". When this book came out, in the context of the time, what it was referring to was OBVIOUS. The iconography and symbolism from Revelation was just window dressing. That said, the story and characters of this scathing rebuke were entirely compelling. "I'm not a god. Not a man. But you, Billy, you're both. Choose." So the guy who's been a mind-controlled dupe and VILLAIN for the whole story, remembers WHO HE IS, shakes free, and sacrifices himself to save the future. Comic book storytelling hardly EVER gets better than this. AND, hammers home the meta- theme of the superior value in superheroes with moral clarity. Mark Waid didn't drop the mic, he dropped the BOMB.

[@hazapez126]

if the dceu adapts this to perfection... it's game over. an "endgame" if you will, haha

[@mustafaamin9516]

They’ll find a way to fuck that up too. Trust me

[@Tehillim29]

Pity Mark Waid can't learn from Kingdom Come, Looking at this & Alex Ross input into this, Id pick it up for his influence

[@jaredgarcia8638]

Ironic that he couldn't learn from the story he wrote

[@Clay3613]

Is this thinking because you follow a certain toxic comic creator with a vendetta?

[@comicbookfan124]

I too remember when Mark Waid was a good writer, who then fell from grace and is now a joke among comic fans.

[@hairy_cornflake]

Still is one of the greatest DC comics ever written. You can put the Killing Joke, The Dark Knight Returns and All-Star Superman in that Top too.

[@BenderBendingRodrigue2]

I want to know how the child of Superman and Wonder Woman turned out...

[@ThePinkMan]

If I'm not mistaken, it's implied he turned out to be the Phantom Stranger.

[@BenderBendingRodrigue2]

@@ThePinkMan thanks for the reply, I'll have to check that out.

[@joshuafogg6600]

I just finished reading my copy again. And you know what? Mark Waid needs to learn that he's become this version of Wonder Woman - extremely bitter, militaristic, jaded, feels like they have something to prove, and most importantly justifies violence against those that won't agree with them. Though unfortunately, nowadays he'll probably just focus on the Statue of Liberty scene rather than find some healthy introspection.

[@FromeFmAjayD]

Joshua Fogg great point it’s scary when someone who’s writing shows so much thoughtful insight into humanity can later show so little regard for people. I guess you either die a hero or live long enough to become a villain.

[@darkroninmarvel]

Kingdom come is a beautiful tale of idealism and a love letter to classical DC mythology, despite it was more of a middle finger to the dark age of violent anti-heroes during the 90s. Shame Mark Waid fell into a really dark path, long story short, he started making controversial statements and very messed up actions, i wont go deep what he specifically said and did in order to avoid a heated argument.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

Then allow me to only add this statement: some arguments, there are no good guys. Some fights, there are no winners. And the people who lose the most are the ones who are the actual true believers. Watching what happened in the 1990s comic industry taught me that much. It seems certain lessons need to be repeated. May the industry survive!

[@joshuafogg6600]

Johnathon Haney I'd prefer that the stories survive.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@joshuafogg6600 Hmph...the stories can take care of themselves in the end if they've got the legs. It strikes me that if you want more such good stories from the same industry, you'll care more about the latter's survival.

[@joshuafogg6600]

Johnathon Haney Stories can only exist if they are accepted. Have you seen the health of the Comics industry lately? It's nothing short of diseased. The stories are not being accepted, the Creations abused. The worlds of our beloved heroes are dying, rotting from the inside out. Stories will live on; but only if the corruption is excised from the roots. And unfortunately, the caretakers have shown themselves to be woefully inadequate for the job.

[@joshuafogg6600]

Johnathon Haney In short, I don't give a rat's ass about the industry as it stands now. They don't care about stories. Blood runs fields fallow. So even if it has to be torn from the abusive Creators kicking and screaming, the fans will safeguard and nurture the spirit behind the stories. And from the ashes, stories will arise anew. No more gatekeeping, no more abuse, no more blatant disregard for ethics or civility. No more.

[@osiancoleman8447]

Think this is an overrated story tbh. I’ve read it as well so I ain’t saying it for the sake of it. My problem is that it’s more plot than character. The characters do things in the plot but the book never asks why there doing anything. Especially for the villains. Batman,the spectre,McKay and superman get fairly good treatment as characters. but u can’t understand things like why r superman and Wonder Woman in love, why is duck Grayson robin again, why does captain marvel do anything he does in this and why r these younger heroes like this. It’s beautiful looking though but would be much better if there was more emphasis on the characters. The story is rlly hard to get for someone who doesn’t know much about the bible like me. Should’ve directly parallel it in the story like watchmen.

[@GeneralKenobi75]

Except they do ask why they are doing anything in the comics. In fact, that's a major problem in the comic. They can't agree on the same thing. They all want to fix the world, but all have their own view on how it should be done. Superman and the heroes that follow him want to restore the world back to the way it was through simple police action, but don't have any long-term solution. Batman has a long-term plan, which involves bringing down Lex and his "Friends of Humanity Group" the real villains from the inside. But refuses to trust Superman or any of the other heroes not already working with him. Wonder Woman wants to bring an end to the violence brought about by the renegade anti-heroes. But she's willing to use more violent means to do so, becoming as bad as the people she opposes. And if you don't understand why Captain Marvel is evil I wonder if you really understood what was going on. He was shown to be brainwashed by Lex Luthor. You don't need to know anything about the Bible to understand what is going on and unlike Watchman it's not needed.

[@earthguardian2]

nice end for 2018 I hope transmetropolitan or usagi yojimbo for the future

[@grayscribe1342]

Seconded on both points.

[@legendbemyname1638]

Could you please discuss Jeff Smith's "Bone"

[@emmanuelperez808]

Still one of my favorite elseworld story lines that finally battle still gives me goosebumps today

[@ShinbrigTV]

Finally you do a video for Kingdom Come, THANKS MATT!!

[@MattDraper]

Kept you waiting, huh?

[@scottlowell493]

FFS DC...make this an animated feature NOW! Or it could be an EPIC live-action, far beyond the pathetic JLA movie we got.

[@ThatOneGuy7550]

Ending 2018 on a high note, Matt! Been waiting for this one!!! Kingdom Come reminded of me Ennis' the Boys and parts of Valiant's Invincible series with how the comic world in Kingdom Come takes place in a world where anti-heroes have overtaken an old-guard and the classical idealism of the DC heroes who have become cynical, darker and filled with excess doubt as their celebrity-like status had fell with the 'new brand of justice' I really like the Kingdom Come storyline, glad you covered it! Waid and Ross are some of my favourite writers/artists in comics.

[@MarkFilipAnthony]

one of the MAJOR source materials Zack Snyder drew from for BvS and his version of JL, I mean just look at the first poster, it screams homage Alex Ross. It just saddens me to see this Graphic novel add so much depth and thought and mythology to something and attempted to adapt to the big screen, but in stead regular fans wanted headless lensflares and bright photoshoped fights with artificial smiles, and jokes for 10 yr olds. Let's hope someone like Snyder gets the opportunity to make live action faithful adaption this graphic novel, because apparently bing inspired by it isn't enough for the public, too niche

[@johnathonhaney8291]

No disrespect...but let's not.

[@MarkFilipAnthony]

@@johnathonhaney8291 lets not what? I know people have different opinions of bvs and snyders jl cut, but if people like it or not I think one should at least applaude the effort into trying something different than the standard hollywood formula :)

[@MarkFilipAnthony]

@James Schultz I know he has the same problem in almost every single movie he makes. I didnt mind killing off jimmy olsen that way, he killed him off heroicly. Also it seems some people have settled bvs to be a good elseworld story, which I dont disagree with. It also seems like people like more the idea of superman than superman himself. People are stuck in a formular and tropes, and doesnt seem to like to question them. Mos and bvs are "what if.." stories. And what sadens me most is that we never got to see his superman fully formed. He was still in the process of becoming Superman. He got his physical form, but had not yet found his place in the world yet. The point of supes is that he is a beacon of hope when all seems lost, a symbol like the son rising to bring a new dawn. But he never got to rise again after the long night, he never got to be reborn again.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@MarkFilipAnthony In this case, Snyder gets nothing but crickets from me. His understanding of the material was childish at best and more than a bit tainted by his Randian ideals. His single biggest mistake was trying to turn the classic DC characters into Watchmen, which made as much sense as hiring Joss Whedon to finish Justice League. Kingdom Come is the LAST thing I want him near.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@James Schultz Don't put it all on WB. Snyder never got it in the first place and never seemed interested in learning how to improve. He was just a bad fit.

[@camerongodsey9847]

Kingdom Come may have predicted a future of heroes who are villains and villains who are heroes, but Matt Draper will always remain a hero to remind us of the masterpiece of the comic industry. Happy New Year, and may your future be far less bleak than that of Kingdom Come!

[@MattDraper]

Thank you and Happy New Year to you, too!

[@Tyler_W]

Mark Waid of today has clearly either forgotten the message of Kingdom Come outlined here, if he ever understood or came up with it in the first place. All of his recent work has been full of irrational vitriol and treating people exactly like ideological stand points to be conquered. It seems he has gone the way of many of the heroes in this book. Shame to see the burnt out shell of what he once was. Here's hoping he comes to his senses because if the last few years have proven anything, he has become a really nasty person and it's painful to say when arguably his greatest work is so powerful in its goodness.

[@patrickohara7117]

I'm trying to buy this comic but I'm seeing different covers online, one of the heroes floating and another of superman at the table looking at the viewer. Is there a difference? like is one a deluxe edition? I know there's four issues of the actual comic but im talking about the graphic novel that has all of the volumes.

[@JonathanJrNeal]

So in a way, DC's Kingdom Come is the Comic Book Industry's 1984?

[@johnathonhaney8291]

Nah, too hopeful at the end.

[@joshuafogg6600]

Jonathan Jr. Neal Huh. In a way, I guess. Thankfully more optimistic at the end, though.

[@BenGrimm1961]

Love this story! It has Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman at their best! Mark Waid wrote a wonderful story! Alex Ross's art is exceptionally beautiful, it captures the DC universe and characters to a tee!

[@hank1972]

It was a great story but the problem was that it always seems to be its the same story over and over again just viewed from another angle. All of these DC Major arcs always seem to revolve around how is the world going to stop Superman. And please correct me if I am wrong but this idea may have happened first in Marvel's Squadron Supreme classic Mini series. But yet over and over this happens.Superman: Red Son Injustice Superboy-Prime. I think it would have been a better story if Magog killed Supes at the beginning and Wonder Woman took the lead in the Story. Make her have to fight both the Anti-Heroes and Batmans team. Both Batman and Wonder Woman fighting to carry the mantle of Superman but each one using a different tactic. Yeah I know DC fanboys gona hate me and call me a Heretic. But Superman is too powerful to keep having original stories.

[@hank1972]

@James Schultz wow I wasn't lynched whew ty.

[@bboiblack1948]

so much death in this book, so much destruction, and superman wasn't fun and happy and smiling. This book sucked. -modern mark waid.

[@therussiancomicbookgeek]

Bravo my friend Bravo

[@greven1995]

Von Bach is just an omage to slovenian band Laibach. They also use cross in their logo but as a stand in for nazi symbol.

[@juliopinedo9402]

Oooof.. well to each their own beliefs

[@georgeelmerdenbrough6906]

I miss things not being edgey and dark . Everything has gotten so stark and cynical . I prefer my tales with hope , not resignation . I guess that means I am too old for popular media . Warning ! That came quickly to me . I am only 54. You might be younger whenever popular media drops you .

[@Revenant343]

Sadly what Kingdom come has warned us about is coming true, not just in superheroes but media in general, cynicism is now called realism while optimism is now called cliche and unrealistic, it's saddening to see.

[@MartialArtsTechniquesideas]

Super true. TV show like the Boyz, Invicible are a proof of that. I love them, it’s cool as a alternative view of superheros but if it became the norm, then it’s a problem. Where are my superheros ?

[@Revenant343]

@@MartialArtsTechniquesideas I feel like invincible in a sense is kinda a response/ reconstruction of the superhero genre like mark isn't like butcher or homelander but the issue is not the shows themselves it's how high demand they are compared to normal superhero media and optimistic media in general and how every writer is starting to take and adopt the writing and thinking they're better because of "maturity" which I wholly disagree.

[@Nassit-Gnuoy]

I read this book while I was on a study abroad trip. I really enjoyed it, but I didn’t get as much out of it as I wanted to. I may pick it up again after this. Good video man!

[@travispierce5258]

Hey Matt, hope you see this comment. I just wanted to say thank you so much for your videos. I always wait until I read the story first and then watch your videos before a re read. It's fun to see things that I caught as well as new things to look for. Your videos are amazing and truly enrich my reading experiences and I'm so grateful! You're awesome!

[@francispena2818]

My gawd that was beautiful A book meant for all And the narrative just fits

[@nicholaslin1630]

To me the Kingdom Come story will have the same lasting impact as Marvel's Infinity War. But the DC world is not ready for this story yet - but the movies now being released should build towards that Doom(fate).

[@TextosyGraficos]

Kingdom Come will always be a DC classic ❤ Great video

[@venus_envy]

There's a panel of Queen album art as an Easter egg in the comic. What a great book, I hav two copies, each with a different cover. I feel like it's silly to keep them both, but I can't bring myself to get rid of one!

[@joshuafogg6600]

Scribonius Thursday And Rorschach pops up a couple times, too.

[@dawolf4274]

STILL read this, from time to time. Remember FREAKING out the first time Bruce Wayne appeared in the story. Thought it so cool and unexpected. But remember thinking, "this makes so much sense.... "

[@randomknowledgeperson2872]

now, i have never cried to any story since i was 8 years old. i just don’t get emotional over stories. books, movies, comics, they can make me laugh and cheer and yell but for some reason never cry. But when I saw that one part where superman put on the glasses for the first time in decades, well, i’ll admit that i got pretty misty there. Mark Waid said that when him and the artist and the person who was overseeing this whole comic were at dinner talking all for the first time this is what he was thinking: “Alex’s story we decided, was about the sin of the superheroes committed the day they divorced themselves from their own humanity, and the struggle they will encounter in trying to restore their human souls. We were all on the same page there at least. But Alex, Dan and Archie were off talking about the middle. And that’s not how I work. I’m not much of a “let’s see where this takes me” writer. I always have to have an end firmly in mind when I write-that one image, that one payoff but that brings the story home and moves not just the reader, but me as well. I need that one panel, that one moment, that shows me the triumph of the heroes were working towards. “ as dessert came and went, all the excruciating self generating noise about which Sandman we were going to use and who Robotman ought to be and whether green lanterns rang would work in a fight against Ray... all of that lost its significance as one crystal clear image nudged its way into my head. “An image of superman putting on a forgotten pair of glasses and becoming Clark Kent once more. “And in that moment, my mind wasn’t anywhere near the story. “But my heart was all over it “I was in.”

[@DoctorInk20]

Kingdom Come is the reason I stopped liking Alan Moore's superhero work. He does nothing but break/deconstruct them into miserable bits with no intention of redemption or restoring faith in humanity.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

And do NOT get me started on what Moore did to Lovecraft with Neonomicon. You might be interested to know that Kurt Busiek's Astro City was a reaction to Moore and Frank Miller's deconstruction by going the other way.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@Greg Elchert That story's good early Moore. It was well before he got too indulgent and high on his own bullshit.

[@DoctorInk20]

@@johnathonhaney8291 I've been meaning to read Astro City, thanks for the recommendation. That's interesting, because you never see reconstructionist works advertised very much. I think that says more about certain strata of comic fans. XD

[@DoctorInk20]

@Greg Elchert I do quite like that story and was surprised to discover it was written by Moore. I find that it works because the struggle comes from Mongul forcing Superman to make a difficult emotional choice while his friends try to help him, as opposed to Clark just being a pathetic, compromised individual who's own inadequacies lead to his downfall (see Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow). It's also very tonally consistent with the rest of the then-lighter, funnier DCU, so much so you could, say, *make an episode of the Justice League cartoon out of it.* Contrast that with The Killing Joke, which to me is the reason why (even though I know he's disowned it and lot of people try to ignore that continuity now) Moore shouldn't do superhero stories, because he is incapable of expressing hope. He just... breaks things. Then people who liked that he broke the thing and proceed to follow suit without understanding *why he broke it* , e.g. Zack Snyder, Mark Millar, etc.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@DoctorInk20 Same strata that ran off to Image until it became obvious that their big revolution was stillborn. Honestly, Astro City's very existence is an anomaly, a book that unapologetically tackles its medium from a unique perspective.

[@Chessheromusic]

Feel like civil war and injustice are very derivative of this story

[@TheGreatDevlin]

Wow... Why am I just now discovering this channel?

[@brucew3693]

i was starting to become interested in the storyline but as soon as i hear the word bible i no longer wanna know more. the bible is like an alternate universe so ig it its in perfectly w this story