Max & RWBY (Doubleca5t RWBY Podcast) - Volume 4

[@Plasmathedeathjester]

Cinders big plan is hoping that the maiden powers are stackable effects

[@jackmccarthy2738]

*looks in the mirror* “Is..... is this the face... the face of a doubleca5t simp...?”

[@TheThunderbirdRising]

Re: volume 4 taking the time to make sure everyone grieves @~ 40:00 ish That's basically what the entire thematic thrust of RWBY is. The main character is defined by her ability to successfully deal with her grief about her mother before the show even starts, and two of her friends after v3. The main villain's entire motivation kicks off because she can't cope with the death of her loved one. The gods of the entire universe say to Salem's face: "we won't undo death and you are cursed forever until you understand why that is important" It makes so much sense that a show whose creator died two seasons in has become a show about healthy and unhealthy ways to cope with loss and death. There is a super clear thematic through line that is one of the reasons why this show is so good.

[@xRaiofSunshine]

Oh. T_T

[@shingshongshamalama]

This volume is the beginning of my Raven Is Ruby's Real Dad theory graduating from shitpost to thing I actually take seriously.

[@megan_tensei]

Im here to defend jaunes outfit: it sells him as a clueless dork if hes just wearing streetclothes and armor kinda haphazardly as opposed to having a stylish huntsman outfit

[@docmartian6938]

I’m not a Doubleca5t simp, I just like RWBY a lot. Also I’ve definitley seen the Nuckelavee get called the “Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm-Flailing Tube Grimm” before by other people, you’re not the only one.

[@agorriazfan3238]

I listen to this because it helps me when i do homework.

[@mynameismyname4713]

Still in denial I see

[@raabaddler5802]

The Punching is something Tai made sure team Stark knew how to do in a pinch, all Tais bedmates know how to punch

[@xRaiofSunshine]

Bedmates 😂

[@raabaddler5802]

@@xRaiofSunshine they all sleep together so yeah bedmates

[@paulollarsabaiii9824]

Can confirm: I am a hardcore Doubleca5t simp. I watch these through. As for my thoughts on this volume, I like it in binging. It's a nice cooldown after the sheer wtfery that is Volume 3. This was the first volume I ever saw from RWBY and I still like it! Also, this volume has probably the best soundtrack in the show.

[@TurtleOfAngst]

Pyrrha not being able to peg: The age old "Too Canadian To Be A Dom" problem.

[@willanrac]

In vol 4 knucklevee's defense. There has been established smart grim. Maybe it figured out it could get closer to human settlements if it looked like a rider before humans sounded the alarm...

[@TheThunderbirdRising]

The eyepatch Ruby headcanons started pretty much with the beginning of the show. Ozpin highlighted Ruby's eyes in the first episode and everyone just sort of picked up on the significance from there. I've seen fanfics with eyepatch Ruby from well before volume 4.

[@XONIXSM]

I didn't see anyone else answer yet but when you were questioning if anyone asked Qrow to go after Ruby you're likely referring to when Yang tells Raven in V5 that Qrow told Yang that he would look out for Ruby on her way to Mistral. No one specifically asked him but Yang was aware he was with her, Qrow presumably told her that to try and help take some responsibility off her shoulders. For a time at least.

[@disasteruwu]

We do be simping for doubleca5t

[@shingshongshamalama]

AKA "the volume where the entirety of Ruby and Weiss' character growth is thematically tied to their relationship"

[@MrRemicas]

Not really?

[@animanya394]

You got me into rwby so now i have this ritual there i listen to an episode of your podcast and then go watch a season of rwby

[@animanya394]

Some people have very different singing voices, ecpecially if they have conditions affecting their voices

[@XONIXSM]

There really wasn't much of anything in need of correction this episode, so good job on that I guess. I have two last things I want to add. It seems unlikely that train infrastructure would be able to make it all the way from the City of Mistral to Anima's Southern coast. RNJR was looking for an airship in chapters 1 and 2 only to find that Shion was obliterated along with its airship. Maybe they could have tried to find a car but I highly doubt any of them know how to drive. Also the Geist was originally going to be in the initiation fight from Volume 1. Miles mentioned in the V4 commentary that the original plan for that fight was a Geist, Giant Nevermore, Deathstalker, and a Giant Boarbatusk all at once.

[@chaps_2543]

Love this podcast, it’s really nice to listen to when I’m working! I like volume four, the engine shift was much needed, I was hardcore invested in Weiss’s arc (and honestly, to this day the Schnee family drama is what I’m most invested in). It was interesting to separate the girls, but I feel like it was a little all over the place because some girls were doing personal growth, others were further the plot. The most damning thing is that it was the follow up for season three, which in my opinion was the best season of RWBY.

[@willanrac]

I remember there being a shit ton of theories around Tyrian this season based just on the two episodes where he fights RNJR and Qrow. Things like he was blind like a real scorpion which explains why when Qrow dropped his weapon he could start to land hits against Tyrian, to Tyrian and Jaune were finally our first M/M potential cannon ship. I'm still supporting that Qrow spreads his unluck to others whne he touches them so he starts luck break combo'ing Tyirian.

[@SamWinters]

The Qrow x Tyrian fight: Tyrian responds to everything by sound. Scorpions are almost blind. The weapons all make noise. Everything in that fight that doesn't make noises (i.e. fists) catches him off guard.

[@willanrac]

Yeah. About monty and poser. He did not want to upgrade poser because it changed short cuts. It added an extra key stroke to a few ahort cuts he used. I remember that from an old drunk tank podcast.

[@raabaddler5802]

Blake and Yang have Sun on speed dial for freaky Fridays and if either wants to to have kids the old way, this could totes be a polycule if the writers wanted to go that way Solar Eclipse (Full Eclipse,Sunny Bees)

[@noisykrickett7758]

I don’t think any of us want to have to wade through the quagmire that is RoseGarden discourse...

[@CenterLion]

Pugoata makes the absolute best Bee fics

[@Zlypi]

• I've been watching the show live since the trailers, since I was a fan of Haloid and Dead Fantasy. I know a LOT of people who noped out after Vol 3 due to the whiplash that was the extreme tone shift. Like, this just wasn't what they had signed up for. And Vol 4 just doubled down super hard. I personally didn't mind it, but it left a big fracture in the fandom amongst my friendgroup. • While I'm borderline okay with the characters being split up for at least a few episodes, I am not okay with them being split up for something like a volume and 2/3rds. Some of the main characters, to this day, still have little to no character development or chemistry with each other. Those characters still need more time together to really show some chemistry, so a lot of people felt like their time got wasted for two volumes. • I was part of the group that watched the show as it came out. Volume 4 and about 2/3rds of Volume 5 feel like one extra long season and the other 1/3rd of V5 feels like a super short season. But that year-long split in-between was a bitch and a half. And I think that's where a lot of the pacing issues come from as well. Due to everyone being split for so long, so many lore dumps, and jumping narratives all the time, the pacing of Volume 4 and most of 5 is suuuuuch a slog to get through, while at the same time, blink and you'll forget what's going on. The pacing just sucks. I honestly want to see a re-cut of these two seasons where you get each character's story in one go instead of being so chopped up. Just to see if that's any better or easier to follow. • Also, for a show called RWBY, it does a shit job of making RWBY or even Ruby the main character. The first two volumes were overly Jaune'd. This volume, they need to establish Oscar, so he's suddenly the main character. • I also feel like this was the beginning of: 'Nora is a very consistent character. She never stops fitting the show. The show stops fitting her.' which only gets worse as the show goes on. It leans *really* hard into edgelord levels of drama now, so she just feels super out of place. • Speaking of out of place. Despite how much I love the new visuals. A friend of mine pointed out that Tyrion's character design is *so* out of place when compared to every other character that they just couldn't even • I'm glad Weiss gets more character development and her dad is made her Big Boss that is tied to her character development this volume. ... But there's basically no cathartic payoff for it in Vol 7. Shit just kind of happens without her really reacting. • And with all of the fanart of Sun and Blake's mom, I kind of have to wonder if she and Ghira swing... • Best ship in any series is literally just 'panpoly orgy'. Makes things simpler and more complicated all at once. #Bakarina_Goals

[@axxelblade]

Really enjoyed this episode. Great work. I'm paraphrasing but, in the volume 4 commentary, Miles & Kerry felt/said that Qrow had probably been in a enough bar fights so that's why him punching Tyrian fits (?). I don't know if this adds anything but yeah. Edit: Rewatched the episode and listened to the commentary. Kerry wrote the Qrow vs. Triyan fight & he said that Qrow had most likely been in a enough bar fights so that's why he punched him.

[@LaNoLaCola]

Something to hold me over during first day of the semester. At least i have online classes

[@madpod5]

>Only the most hardcore Doubleca5t simps watch all the way through I feel called out

[@MultiNicoleG]

I'm just getting into RWBY (pretty late!) and want to say I really love this pod and watching the volumes along with you all! It's a cool window into the fandom, what people love about it, and the 'discourse'/controversies for somebody very new to it all. Just started this episode but wanted to jump in and say that if you're wondering who your audience is besides "people falling asleep to Max's voice" apparently. :D

[@meganintenbro]

1:52:25 The DC Comics RWBY series was able to give us some kinda canon missing volume 4 scenes. Would totally recommend giving it a read! While I wish Volume 4 was longer I'm glad it as able to be fleshed out there

[@Sam-on5jf]

why listen to your "history teacher" when you can listen to some nerds talk about a show you don't watch yes I am a hardcore doubleca5t simp

[@punkitt]

same I have never watched a full ep of RWBY but these folk are just entertaining

[@quinnie_here]

V4-6 Blake has very big pirate vibes tbh

[@raabaddler5802]

MAX was right about the grimm bits in cinder, but it's not a bad line Salem doesn't want Cinder to understand she is also making her more controllable(the more her grimm grows the sooner Cinder is just Salem's puppet like any other Grimm) and will never let her be her equal, so she leaves the reason for the weakness vague

[@nerdorama009]

"We foreshadowed and we didn't even know it." Ah yes. The Andrew Hussie school of writing.

[@thurina6973]

Tyrian finding Jaune "interesting" made me think he might have been partly inspired by a real life serial killer named Gilles de Rais, who also happened to be a commander in the French army who fought alongside Joan of Arc. I've seen other stories involving Rais (or Bluebeard, the character he inspired) that make it so there's some kind of important connection between him and Joan because of this, even though there's no historical evidence for anything like that. Like in Fate/Zero, the Bluebeard character has an obsession with her. So I thought Tyrian addressing Jaune that way was some kind of nod to their historical parallels. But outside of being a murderer, Tyrian doesn't show any specific similarities to Rais or Bluebeard that I could find and he's mostly based on the Scorpion from the Scorpion and the Frog, so I'm thinking the idea that he could sense Jaune's aura is more likely after listening to this podcast. That's what went through my head at the time though.

[@RosileeJe]

I didn't expect the question "Does Sun get pegged?" to be what compelled me to comment, but since it sounds like you haven't read Before the Dawn I HAVE to make sure you know that a verbatim quote from it is "Plus, Sun liked being bossed around by strong women," if you haven't already seen that around Tumblr. So like Also I think I've called the Nuckelavee "wacky waving inflatable arm-flailing tube-grimm" more than I've called it by it's real name. I don't remember where I first heard it, but that name has definitely been around. Love these podcasts, 12/10, I refuse to claim the title "doubtca5t simp"

[@ryenguy]

i know a few other users have posted this already but this podcast sparked my interest in rwby again, i just finished watching the volumes and it has some interesting concepts even if the execution of it is really, really messy at times lol.

[@mikamekaze]

I remember from the beginning I felt SOMETHING bad was going to happen to Yang. I SPECIFICALLY remember thinking "Either she's gonna die, or she's gonna lose a limb." Like you said, for most of the series Yang had been built up as this invincible, cocky character, and it was just setting her up to fall, to learn.

[@taylorobrien6722]

I honestly think the info dumping is more than just info dumping. They way Qrow tells the story of the brothers sets us so well for V6 ep 2 and the betrayals we see there, plus it helps when get to V9 and we get the actual true story of the them. Its not info dumping its storytelling in universe and that is important for them in and out of universe especially with all the allusions to Brothers grimm, fairy tales, etc. Storytelling is shows how they relate to the world and their own conception of thier role in the universe.

[@goldfishoevil]

i'm not a hardcore doubleca5t simp, i just watched rwby and have literally no one to talk to about it so at least i can listen to OTHER people talk about it

[@GoneRampant]

I'm probably too late for you to see this for the Volume 5 podcast, but part of the reason BMBLB blew up and caused a shipping war was because Jeff and Casey tried hard deconfirming that the song was proof that the ship was gonna happen alongside the crew insisting repeatedly "It's just a song, it's not proof of anything, songs aren't canon." (Casey went on repeat the last part after Volume 5 when people were reacting to All That Matters)

[@gwacie98]

"there is not bts here" as a very tired been-stanning-since-predebut army GOOD tbh

[@AAABatts]

As the resident Oscar stan I feel obligated to say I feel like the issue with his writing in this volume is that all of his character development happens offscreen--he goes from outright refusing to leave home to packing his bags in a few episodes without a word about WHY he actually wants to do it. If all that screen time he had was spent fleshing out his character/motives and letting him grow in parallel w/ the rest of the cast's arcs this volume before deciding to leave home he might have been a lot more compelling beyond "this is a character that exists" 😔

[@GoneRampant]

Well it's a good thing they don't do that for Oscar again, right? Right? *laughs in Volume 6*

[@yannaranegre6480]

OMG! Max is the one from the "What your favorite ship says about you. They're a legend!"

[@stuarthutzler6670]

So uh... anyone got any fanart of Jaune in the tiara?

[@perro692]

My headcanon for the "Blake doesn't like sugar on her tea anymore" is because in all the years she was on the run with the white fang they didn't allways have sugar so she got used to drinking it like that

[@sofer2230]

Getting called a simp for wanting a podcast in the background while I work isn't how I intended to start my day but here we are >_>

[@mickiew45]

listen..... i may be a simp.... but i'm also just extremely invested in the hardcore analysis of rwby at any given point, okay?

[@carnivalbears]

Glad I’m being called out for simping less than a minute into this episode

[@thrownstair]

I like consuming content for fandoms I'm not really in because I like seeing people enjoy things they like? I guess that makes me a tourist.

[@silgon8705]

Yeah a lot of the character's attacks in this volume don't have a bunch of weight to them, except for Nora, because Nora is perfect and the best character in RWBY

[@paulollarsabaiii9824]

I remember seeing Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man in a RWBY Crack video. I can't remember if it was from Hammertime, Blasian Domo, or Mercury Black

[@siko_pomp]

yes oscar is my favorite character yes i have absolutely no justification for this we exist

[@LuckyStar1Fan]

I remember seeing Ruby Eyepatch art from waaaaay back even before Vol 4. Thats why when Tyrian said that line I was like O.O and I had flashbacks to seeing the fanart lol. I think when I first saw the art it was around when volume 2 came out? Or maybe even earlier? Idk?? xD

[@taylorobrien6722]

LMAO AT 37 minutes in" I wonder if we are gonna get phyrra in future volumes, looks at how they traumatized ruby with her memory in V9

[@seanmurphy3430]

I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure Ozpin was lying about having given the maidens a portion of his power. In the flashback in season 6, we see that Ozpin had 4 daughters, capable of using magic, and their designs heavily imply that they were the original maidens.

[@xRaiofSunshine]

I thought it wasn't confirmed whether they were the original maidens or not :0

[@ArloMathis]

I don't know if it could be considered an outright lie, but I did figure the maidens were his daughters and they also took a portion of his power since the world didn't work that way anymore after the 'reset'.

[@maeldaniels2971]

I have the theory that the four daughters died that night and later Ozma gave the four women powers as a way to honor his daughters. That way the four daughters are the inspiration for the four maidens and Ozma drained his powers creating the maidens.

[@your_dar_ling]

1:02:00 no Max is right it's been called that. So many memes

[@viviansventures]

im not a doubleca5st simp this is just the only good rwby discussion content in the entirety of youtube aside from like 4 other rwby critique videos about like the black fang being racistly written

[@shadowwwwwwwwwww]

i'm an oscar apologist and i never realized i was/had to be.

[@smuu1996]

1:53:51 Well, I am listening to this(for some reason that I have yet to determine).

[@taylorobrien6722]

lol we do get a beach ep in v9 kinda lol

[@silgon8705]

The entire section on pegging is very funny to me, because I got into an entire tirade last week with a friend about whether Lie Ren gets pegged (which he absolutely does)

[@perro692]

Doubleca5ts simp nation, rise up

[@shacklesburst]

Gonna be honest, I've listened until the intro (because it's good) and then I go do something else. Every. Single. Time.

[@yannaranegre6480]

I think Blake hitting Sun is more problematic.

[@aweckzs]

even during blacksun hours we get spammed with "they're just friends" smh can't catch a break

[@Mystery__Otaku]

Love Live podcast 0 w 0

[@nickdelacruz3362]

How sure are you that the eyepatch Ruby thing isn't just because she looks kinda like Megumin from Konosuba?

[@N0t-Luciifer]

can we get some timestamps please, my peanut brain can only handle so much

[@fraenguardian1226]

I would like volume 4 If I remembered any of it.

[@Lillia38]

this was the volume where i dropped rwby years ago but this podcast definitely reignited my interest and i'm looking forward to rewatching and catching up to the latest season! (and also because i got spoiled some spicy Penny things and she was my second favorite character so instead of disappointed about getting spoiled im just super excited about getting to see how we get to that point lol)

[@raabaddler5802]

Klein means small or Dwarf

[@mtann3275]

What would it legitimately take for you to consider a remnant D&D game

[@Mystery__Otaku]

Woohoo!

[@D0cSwiss]

For the early talk about play blasts and cost and stuff, I'm 90% sure money wasn't the issue, it was time. Most episodes were getting finished a day or even sometimes a few hours before the episodes were getting released to the public. Also, real talk, this podcast made me feel a lot more positive about the season, showing me things I didn't think of when I saw it week to week.

[@notlurking2128]

I'm truly a double ca5t simp ;-;

[@XONIXSM]

Something to note before y'all get into Volume 5. It's important to acknowledge that the prevailing theory(it hasn't been explicitly confirmed but it seems most likely) that one of the main sources of the issues in that volume is that they blew a lot of the budget on 3 character shorts that were released several months before the premier date. This results in a lot of hasty rewrites to make things cost less money to animate. This is corroborated by the dates on a lot of storyboards being very close to the air dates when compared to later volumes and comments from the writers about stuff that was supposed to be in V5 being pushed to V6. Maria, for instance, was originally going to be in V5 to address the silver eye questions everyone had at that point.(and she was gonna have cat.)

[@MrRemicas]

Eh, I think Maria would just have made a cameo at most.

[@shingshongshamalama]

If the show did a better job of establishing that Oscar _already lived in Mistral_ and that he walked like several days to the next town over just to catch a train to The City, I think it'd be less of a problem.

[@AvalancheTRA]

i don't even watch rwby i just ship bumbleby

[@sampew1605]

I didn't like that they melted down Pyra's weapons either. It was jarring when I watched the episode. It's not a popular opinion, but the Jaun Pyra romance seemed a little too much like a high school crush to play up this way. I get Jaun romanticizing it especially with how guilty he feels. I just never got over my dislike for Jaun to want him to carry on this way.

[@randomim42]

Qrow and Raven were definitely named that before they came to Beacon. Qrow mentions he was named after his semblance, because they're omens of bad luck. I get the impression that members of the branwen tribe arent given names at birth, but only after they've done something to earn one Qrow punches people, I think it's just part of his fighting style because you see him do it in all his v7 fights too Oscar might have been coming from a different direction because Anima is a big place. I don't know where Oscar lived. Remember that most of the towns in the east half of the continent RNJR passes through are ruined by the Grimm. Major transportation networks on that part of the continent might have been ruined. The Salem line IS confusing and I've had so many discussions with people confused about it Ruby laughing way too hard and long and having that rediculous exaggerated reaction to the pumpkin Pete hoodie I took away as being totally intentional. It's not THAT funny, it's sad. It's sad because that was probably the first thing that made her laugh since the fall of beacon I thought Oscar was boring as crap until v7, so yeah I agree. I think Sun following Blake is only acceptable because he totally thought she was running a revenge rampage against the white fang and didn't want her to get killed but knew Blake wouldn't agree to him coming with her if he just asked. If he was just stalking her to stalk her that'd be really creepy

[@Donovaneagle2098]

The main issues I have with Vol. 4 are that as someone who's done volunteer work with differently abled people for years, Yang's arc bugs me for a few reasons, starting with Taiyang. He is not the best dad. He tries to be for sure, but his overlooking or dismissal of major elements of Yang's trauma, along with it being implied he left Ruby's childcare to Yang shows him to be an ok dad trying to be a good one, which I really would have liked, if that was the intended message. This really shows one of RWBYs bigger issues. Its using major issues as set dressing more than actual points of character development. Yang's trauma was barely talked about, then seemingly dissapeared, but her learning to fight better, which is a minor plot point by comparison, is given the focus instead, when it could have just been shown that she was learning from her mistakes by showing it in her actual fights. She lost an arm, then just gets a new one with no need for maintenance or any physical downside. As one differently abled person I used to work with put it when talking about limb loss tropes, "if you cut off a characters leg and just give them a magic robot one with no downside, whats the point?" Also Sun in general didnt need to be in Menagerie, and he definitely should not have been the person to teach Blake about not running when her parents,who she ran from in the past, were right there.

[@NektisNoir]

I believe when Salem said "it is because of the maiden's power", she wasn't actually referring to the maiden power but rather Cinder herself and her Grimm abilities (considering Cinder did fuse with the spider Grimm to get the power drain ability). It's just phrased REALLY weird and should've been fixed in script revisions 😅

[@MrRemicas]

It also doesn't help that they've been fighting SEW, and they're surprisedit does what it's supposed to? The whole séquence is just bad.

[@NektisNoir]

@@MrRemicas I just assumed no one besides Salem, Emerald, and Mercury knew Cinders "power" was Grimm implants. Salem was pretty vague about it after all.

[@Radioactiveafikomen]

I actually didn't mind the walk cycles in the first 3 seasons, but for some reason I really dislike how Weiss walks in season 4. She walks like she just shit her own underpants. (Made worse by her new outfit, which really shows how her legs are moving.)

[@smuu1996]

I don't ship Yang and Blake for the same reason that I wasn't happy with the ending of Legend of Korra. I like to think of these characters as like "really close friends"(basically like brothers or sisters) so I don't wanna destroy their friendship by romance. Yeah btw I am a rosegarden shipper and I know this is kind of hypocritical but I don't care

[@Rosa-he6xb]

While I have never seen Korra(but I know about the ship at the end), I can understand and see what you mean by that. Sometimes there’s characters I ship and sometimes there’s characters that I think are best friends forever. If I had to say a ship that I wish was platonic instead would probably be Starco from SVTFOE (I never hated that ship, but I felt like it was done in a way where it felt force or too much of a awkward past).

[@son0fgrim]

the big problem with this chapter is that the passing of Monty hurled 50 million plot threads in the air and instead of them picking which were the best ones and running with them they decided to DO EVERYTHING! lowering the over all quality of the show. which was already really low. But hey their still digging and i'm still shitting on the people in that hole.