McDojo Breakdown: Is your school a McDojo?

[@McDojoLife]

Truly appreciate all of your support. We are super close to hitting 50K :) Become a member to get access to perks: kzbin.info/door/j0hSixOVSV4HvmbAQjk0WAjoin

[@ransakreject5221]

Simple. Find your school on tapology.com If there are no fighters. It’s a McDojo

[@tiocroc4814]

Hello. As you are someone really familiarized to indentify McDojos, I would like to ask you something. I once had a "muay thai" master that actually just had black belt for Taekondo. He said he teached how to kick, punch, use elbows, use knees; and that Muay Thai, Taekondo, Full Contact, Kung Fu are all "the same shit". He said he used to change the name of the martial art of his gym depending on which one was more in the media to attrack more students. He actually teached well how to box and to kick (I believe). We used to train sparring, on punching bags, boxing pads and those "mini shields" intructors hold (don't know the name in english lol). he claimed to have professional fights, although I could never find his record. Other instructors I trained with afterwards said I had a good base. Was that a McDojo?

[@ransakreject5221]

@@tiocroc4814 yes. I am an mma teacher with a Bjj Blackbelt. And a Kenpo blackbelt(cause I was a dumb kid once) I also teach kickboxing and won an amateur belt in kickboxing. I was 13-5 pro in mma & have had several students in the ufc. I call my striking class kickboxing. Not MT. Cause it’s NOT MT. Thai is a very specific thing and only a hack wouldn’t know that. I would not insult the local MT krus by suggesting that I am qualified to teach MT as I am not. I never fought under pro MT rules and my students don’t. We don’t do a wai kru we don’t circle the ropes in the cage we don’t wear the head thing. I teach striking mostly for mma. That’s very different than thai. Your instructor was w liar AND a fraud. I don’t care how well he taught a knee. Guys come to my bjj class all the time and say “I’m a brown belt in nogi” cause some local hole gyn said they are.’ I say “a brown belt in nogi bjj is called a white belt.” I ask who gave it to them and it’s unusually an mma type gym that doesn’t do gi and the instructors are not registered bjj blackbelts and cannot give belts in jack shit. Most had no idea. Some come in with a belt to gi class and I ask them who gave them it ans they are not real blackbelts and so I say they wear white. This is not me saying this. Not my opinion, it’s a fact. Brazilian jiu-jitsu is a specific thing. To get a blackbelt u need meet many criteria in addiction to be signed off on by registered Blackbelts. U must pass a background check, cpr course and etc etc. I must verify my students got belts certain dates snd send the IBJJF pictures of them and verify the competition record. I assure u John jones can tap me. It does not make him a bjj blackbelt. And I assure u he can beat most MT krus in a thai match but John is not qualified to teach MT. Lately I’ve watched many local karate schools and kung fu ones give their teen age students blacks belts in mma. I love sending these blackbelts in mma the info that their teacher never fought mma. They’ve never cornered mma. And mma is a SPORT. If I have never wrestled or coach wrestling I am not a wrestler if I know how to change level. A cardio boxing coach who’s never trained an actual boxer is not a boxing trainer. He is a cardio boxing trainer

[@tiocroc4814]

@@ransakreject5221 thank you 🙏🏻

[@McDojoLife]

@@ransakreject5221 we are going to disagree slightly with 2 things. 1) I don’t believe they have to be on tapology to be considered legit. 2) 10th planet blackbelts are blackbelts in No-Gi Jiujitsu. But this was just stating my opinion for conversation not argument

[@joejitsuway960]

"Cult like behavior" is a really tricky one. There's a very fine line between a "family atmosphere" which has extremely positive connotations and a cult which has extremely negative connotations. Things like gym loyalty and following arbitrary customs are aspects of both.

[@michaelberardo4614]

Family atmosphere would be like miyagi do type stuff. And cult would be like cobra Kai stuff. Sorry it’s a reference from a show but maybe it’s an idea

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

@@michaelberardo4614 Honestly? That's a good example!

[@Mr850man]

your family is a cult

[@sonic-bb]

​@michaelberardo4614 some would even call Miyagi do a cult like atmosphere lol

[@brokentreemusic9359]

One of them I saw (and still in business) is “secret techniques that you’re not allowed to discuss with anyone”. No deprivation or even a money grab…. But everything is either based off of KZbin or outright lying

[@GLASSGHOSTHUNTERS]

I was prohibited from training at other studios and even competing in open tournaments by my first instructor. At my own studio, I don't prevent anybody from cross training elsewhere or competing where they want. If there's a skillset they want that I can't teach them, I'll encourage them to learn it and even recommend other studios that offer it.

[@GLASSGHOSTHUNTERS]

@@thatoneguybones8036 That's the sad part of some martial arts studios and their head instructors. There's some weird attempt at ownership of their students and a need to assert control over their decisions. These tend to be the same instructors that don't let you ask questions and won't spar their students. It's an ego thing, I think. You should always be able to ask your instructor questions. They should also be open to sparring with their students. It's a good confidence builder for new students, allows the instructor to demonstrate their control and it keeps their skillset intact.

[@nicholasneyhart396]

Yep big red flag not letting people go elsewhere. If people want a skill they don't offer, bring it or let then learn it. My current gym is a big competition focused bjj and judo gym and since I am always at open mat on Thursday with a strong wrestling backround and my old wrestling coach is a student there. They gave us permission to run wrestling practice on Thursdays and it is the most popular class for the bjj competitors.

[@donotstalkme]

I believe you make a confusion between "McDojo" and "Bullshido". The origin of the term McDojo is definitely linked to the "making money" and "conveyor belt" of belts. I remember the old days of 2000s when both terms appeared on the interwebs, and McDojo is for sure a term that refers to "giving belts in exchange for money". Great channel btw, love your content.

[@venicex605]

can we say “mc dojo is a dojo that practice bullshido”

[@GLASSGHOSTHUNTERS]

I agree. We say McDojo to mean "1 billion black belts served." The idea of just getting new people in and rushing them through ranks without worrying about quality and consistency, while potentially opening multiple locations to keep expanding.

[@peterwang5660]

I think rob has taken that general concept but narrowed it down just so that he only targets evil and purely bad things with his definition.

[@GLASSGHOSTHUNTERS]

@@peterwang5660 I would agree with that.

[@brunoboettcher8921]

I second this, in m'y understanding a McDojo is a school where, like a fast food, you pay for bad instruction to get (fake or at least useless) belt diplomas, which is allready wrong enough! Without taking into account all the puking rest i associate with bullshido and other "arts" of mindfucking.....

[@nacktheslayer9882]

The dojang i went too for ten years slowly grew into something more like a mcdojo over the years. One of the more serious instructors left to start his own school, and the quality of learning went down and the placed turned into a glorified daycare by the time I stopped attending because going felt like a chore and I had just started college so I didn't have as much time.

[@LettersofVerax]

The specificity of the McDLife definition makes it far more helpful than the other popular definitions out there. But the equally important lesson that bears repeating is that when folks actively mislabel real dojos as 'McDojos' because they think their own style is best or whatever, these people are engaging in McDojo-like behaviour themselves. Do your MA thing; let others' do theirs.

[@NicolasdeFontenay]

God I hate people claiming "My kung-fu is better than your kung-fu"!

[@KenMikaze]

@@NicolasdeFontenay it's not that worse than saying, My Muay Thai is better than your Tae Kwon Do.

[@NicolasdeFontenay]

​@@KenMikaze any combination is dumb.Looks like we agree.

[@KenMikaze]

@@NicolasdeFontenay Though, there is this best martial art that is so underrated. It's called Sayonachi.

[@joshuaschultz4100]

Thank you so much for this video! I have been following your channel for some time and this video really hit me. I have been running my martial art schools for over 15 years and have been called a mcdojo. I am profiting from it and have lots of students. I definitely feel like I do my best to be honest and upfront about the service I offer and I sincerely want to better the lives of my students. Many videos online seem to criticize those who make money and work to get people to black belt. My fellow martial art school owners in my area even tell their potential clients that I am a mcdojo because of my fees and contracts (I do have 30 day notice clauses btw). It is hard not to have doubt because of all the things people may say online or locally. Thank you for pointing out that running a business and trying to make a good living doesn’t make you a mcdojo, but practices that are not in the best interests of students and only to gratify the instructor’s own selfish agenda are. This video was an inspiration to me and something I really needed to hear. Thank you 🙏

[@McDojoLife]

Glad it could made a positive impact

[@zakpodo]

That's awesome that it's called lissajous-do. I've never heard of the discipline but I'm a mathematician and I'm familiar with the curves I assume it's named after, appropriately.

[@McDojoLife]

Yes, it is. Very cool you caught that. Those same curves actually map out the bodies movement. All the way up to 2:3

[@nicolebaldock7394]

Having never done martial arts in my life and recently starting BJJ as a newbie white belt spazz, finding out about mcDojos blows my mind! We definitely have a few here in the U.K. but my SO calls it ‘pay to play’ which he means you pay for your grading so you get given the belt instead of actually earning it when you’re ready.

[@nicolebaldock7394]

PS: subscribing!!

[@foracho]

Totally agree with your comments. At our karate club we always try to improve ourselves and build up our students in a positive way. Me and the other instructors constantly research, question each other and welcome our students to question us with what we are teaching them. I believe I’m there to pass on my knowledge of the martial art I’m passionate about. It’s not about being the best, it’s about being better than you where yesterday, that goes for me as well as my students!

[@garf293]

A Mcdojo is any school that isn't mine.

[@athousandlives7231]

me: rewatches old ‚What makes a McDojo‘ for fun right now McDojoLife: uploads new McDojo video 👀👀👀

[@McDojoLife]

😂 that’s awesome

[@3Digga]

Just started watching ur vids and it took this vid to have me subscribe. This is because of you talking about ur background and being humble about it. I really like how you read the articles of what a McDojo is and then addressed your opposing views. Very insightful. Thank you.

[@McDojoLife]

Appreciate it

[@Lonovavir]

As Joe off the street who doesn't know much about martial arts I appreciate this list. It's good to know what dojos to avoid. My red flags are too many black belts, kids with adult black belts and talk about some "ultimate" or "forbidden unstoppable techniques" only available to "advanced" students.

[@peteragren7568]

I used to train in a small group where the lead guy was… quite bizarre. He had these ”codes” such as, he didn’t teach you things because he wanted to have an upper hand on you in sparring etc. And believed that the ”student” should never surpass the ”teacher”. Wierd stuff all together. Now he’s a LEO and a self defense intructor in 2-3 arts. Haha! I remember one time we were kickboxing and I was dominating him (I was training muay thai at the time) and he got so upset that he double legged me and took side control and started to arm bar me or something. Everyone just stood there with their mouths open in disbelief. That was the last time I trained in that group. 😄

[@matthewbaumann630]

What's a Leo?

[@peteragren7568]

@@matthewbaumann630 Law Enforcement Officer

[@matthewbaumann630]

@@peteragren7568 Nice. My Karate school has jumped the Shark. We haven't done sparring in over a year.

[@clifforddelacruz3806]

I agree with the points presented. Effectiveness of a martial art in a streetfight does not automatically decide which dojo is a mcdojo, unless it is wrongly marketed to attract students.

[@dwraptorgeezus097]

Glad I watched this vid Rob. I finally worked up the courage to go to a "Kickboxing class" and like you mentioned in the video it was much more of a cardio/stations type setup. You were just told to do whatever at each station with very little instruction on proper technique or anything to do with actual kickboxing. I always thought it seemed odd but I thought "maybe I'm just being a dick and expecting too much". Good to know I wasn't wrong and thatvI only went to a few sessions. Thanks! @mcdojolife

[@Mememulelife]

I feel like there are two types of "kickboxing" cardio and competitive. Cardio is more of a fitness class and Competitive is more competition kickboxing with live sparring and such. As long as the studio/gym is open as to which type it is there isn't a problem.

[@ashtar3876]

@@Mememulelife sparring is probably one of the easiest ways of knowing which type someone's doing yeah

[@guitargeek57]

This is fantastic. I’d love to learn more traditional Kung fu (I know some but not much) not for any self-defense or combat but because it’s beautiful and I’d just love to learn it.

[@radenadityaaufarino8452]

Everyone nowadays always associating martial arts = MMA. If you learn Martial Arts but cannot fight in MMA rule = McDojo/Bullshido.

[@peterwang5660]

@@radenadityaaufarino8452 literally not even what Rob says in the video

[@peterwang5660]

More traditional kung fu would actually be for combat, if you’re into the beautiful shit, do modern kung fu/wushu. Chinese martial arts as a community and thing has honestly given up on trying to revive itself as a combat practice. And you having to disclaimer your interest with “not for defense it just looks cool” is more unfortunate byproducts of that.

[@guitargeek57]

@@peterwang5660 fair enough - but you get my point. I don’t care about combat much at all. It’s just fun

[@peterwang5660]

@@guitargeek57 Yeah well go ahead, maybe I’ll see you pretending to fly ten meters from a tornado kick in a movie one day.

[@yourlure]

Thank you for everything you do Rob! Especially thank you for bringing attention to David Arnebeck.

[@SethMantia]

Thank you for you're videos! I have been practicing martial arts for about 10 years and have always had some doubts about the lineage I learned from(Shaolin-Do). I was fortunate to be part of the black sheep school that was very focused on what you were saying about reasons people join martial arts. The reasons of, social interactions, losing weight, etc. It's refreshing to hear your explanations and I hope more people watch your videos so they can learn and understand martial arts better.

[@wrybread]

Damn you're getting so good at this. A particularly good episode, thank you sir.

[@AllanWARREN-z7r]

I was really impressed with your explanation.

[@tracewell]

This was a really well-reasoned and articulate explanation. Thank you.

[@yestoadventure007]

Brilliant list! Thank you. I have been a part of Fu Jow Pai Kung Fu for over 27 years and feel very lucky to have had a Sifu of great integrity and skill but not business skill. He kept his school running because of his honesty and trustworthiness but struggled financially because he didn’t want to be seen as a Mcdojo. He sadly passed in 2017. This video makes me appreciate him more.

[@meekstud]

Waaay back in the day when I first heard the term McDojo, it was more along the lines of the last definition. It was a reference to “fast food” dojos where the instructor was greedy and teaching garbage and quickly handing out black belts to people who clearly didn’t deserve black belts. So it was just a term that meant that you studied at a place that should not have given you a black belt because you’re no good.

[@McDojoLife]

Issue with that is it’s a bit subjective and at the end of the day most gyms/instructors will have different versions of what good is. I tried to keep it to the important issues.

[@SaltLight7]

Awesome job Rob for not just jumping right to your rules for a McDojo. I totally agree that making money, quick belt progression, or the style/practicality itself don't make a McDojo. I think I separate a McDojo (the location and business) from Bullshido (an individual or that individual's style). So when I think of a McDojo I think mostly of rule 5 (shady business practices) l. To me the other rules call out, accurately, Bullshido. And as I stated in a previous comment, pedophilia is wrong no matter what. It doesn't matter what form or subcategory it takes. So for me it's not a McDojo rule but a rule in general.

[@spaceisalie5451]

I only train at mma gyms, and the immense contrast in quailty is astounding. I catergorize them first as "Hobbie gyms" and "Fighter gyms". If a hobbie gym, then idc I just stay away. If a fighter gym, then I look to see how the integrate different styles for mma and if they are a "rough me up" gym, which is a gym where the coaches usually allow people to hit each other alot. I stay away from gyms where the different styles (Kickboxing, boxing, jiu jitsu etc) are taught in a way that makes them impossible to integrate, and i stay away from "rough me up gyms" for my health, but shit, it's fun to go there once in a while.

[@LeonardTreman]

I went to the school of a student of George Dillman. That being said we sparred, grappled, did kata, and did technique a lot. We never really tried any of that chi crap. When Dillman came for a group of us blackbelt testing he tried pulling a line of like 40-50 of us. We were all lined up with about a foot between each person and the person in front of them. I was very skeptical and resisted getting pulled down. The person behind me was pulling on my shoulders and about 20 people behind him were pulling him. I'm 99% sure I was just physically pulled down by the dude behind me.

[@charles_pensamentocritico]

I am so glad you defended that profit is not bad. Already a huge fan. Cheers from Brazil.

[@bombdotcom2168]

I go to an ATA school (Which is highly labeled as a McDojo) but the school I go to doesn't fit ANY of the criteria I've seen online or talking to other people about what a McDojo is other than maybe the patches on the uniforms (which aren't required by my instructor at least) and the fact that music is played during class. Plus, my instructor openly encourages you to learn more, even if it's outside of what was taught at his school. It really just depends on the school in my opinion, and unfortunately there are a crap ton of McDojo's to get tricked by. I even was tricked by one when I was younger, and I've used my experiences with that school to make sure I wasn't tricked again looking for another school to train at

[@andrewhill586]

Damn, that Loren Copp one really ticks me off. That patch identifies him as part of the Shorin-Kan, a legitimate Shorin-Ryu system that can trace it's lineage hundreds of years through all the big name old-time masters - Chibana, Itosou, Matsumura, Sakugawa. I know, because I trained in this system for over 10 years and have a 2nd degree black belt in their karate and a 1st in their kobudo system. I never heard of this dude (different part of the country), but it really REALLY pisses me off that he'd not only abuse minors, but abuse a legit martial art in the process.

[@watcherworld5873]

I was definitely in more than one McDojos. But, they did teach me some basic moves. The moves are useful for flexibility and stability. And no, I cannot fight myself out of a wet paper bag.

[@Alkis05]

The Shaolin Temple itself would probably fit some of those criteria. I have in mind specially unsafe practicing conditions

[@deathspawn54]

My school is Im pretty sure run by volunteer work, we rent out a town center, they don't charge for testing or belts, and the fees are really good. I'm pretty happy about it

[@bassoskat]

Keep it up mate, your work is very important exposing these frauds, it’s abuse what they do and they should be exposed for taking advantage of ignorance.

[@penroc3]

i LOVE my TKD teacher and classes, i live in upstate NY and the place i go is Master Kim's Tae Kwan Do. from a smaller kid to a 37 year old man with a BIG break in between and i recently started again and i LOVE it. i would love for you to ck the studio out might be a good video for a good school, a non McDojo

[@ianrobertson432]

a big thing that gets me are empty promises. "will help improve grades" but they dont offer anything that to do so. such as an study program or anything. if they promise something they should have a tool in place to facilitate those ends

[@elizabethbrooks4472]

I love my martial art, there’s no actual fighting, and it leans heavily into the art side. Its called Iaido, and its just practicing kata with a katana. I love it, it teaches me focus, and I’m getting strong. I’m fully aware I could never use it to fight

[@JahBreed]

I watched mine rurn into a Mcdojo. We got a bunch of local TV personalities and their friends, kids in. It was too hard for them. Started pushing for this 'New' Taekwondo. Grandmaster addressed the issue, factions were built in the membership with the Karens(our newest members) pushing the hardest. Yeah. The school is closed. I watched a 'Master' cry after not breaking a board during her 5th Level exam. It sucks but people generally don't want to learn the Martial Arts, they want an experience that makes them feel important. Is what it is.

[@majordetractor]

Awesome channel, subbed. Thanks for letting us know bout #1 a lot of youtube won't allow that anymore. Only other tip: if your instructor's nose doesn't look like it's been broken 5x, move on.

[@gbounit]

I love your honesty about yourself and your resume... still pretty impressive my friend!!!!!

[@me2theextream]

I also think the practice of as you go up in rank the academy costs go up is a mcdojo practice. It makes it so they have an incentive to promote you without you actually being ready. My daughter attended a teakwondo school that did that. She studied and practiced hard to get her black belt and got it but the kids that got promoted with her couldn't even do the forms. They coached them through the whole test.

[@JaredUnashamed]

Thank you for this. I made a comment on Sensai Seth's latest video (his reaction to a show on fake black belts) and got roasted when I said I earned a black belt in a little over 2 years. They assume that my school is fraud, calling it a McDojo and it really caught me off guard because I'd never heard this term but I understood the implication and I know it's not true. I get it though some schools are more technical, some schools requirements are higher and it's harder to get to the level of black belt. Before I started I let my kids take martial arts classes for 6 months to be sure that one, they wanted to do it and liked and two, to see if the instructors and masters seemed legit. After six months of watching them the little kid in me wanted to step in and start the journey with my kids. We are a small school and small association within the greater Taekwondo community but we are not taking advantage of people or their time. We are middle American small town rural USA every day average folks. I love my martial arts family and I love that we have this and wish to keep it going and learn/teach as long as I'm able. Our founder is even still alive at 91 years old. He's teachings are rooted in martial arts and it's such an honor to have this community that he started. When I got my black belt, or any other person that I saw get their black belts there's one thing that ranking master said that I'll never forget, "this is just the beginning." I've just now scratched the surface of what I'm going to learn, all the while being a senior student in my school teaching those that want to learn, that alone is worth it. And just to add I'm not going around trying to compare myself to others, or other schools or teachings. That's not the point of getting into martial arts. As you said people quit martial arts every day and won't stick with it. I've known some that get their black and belt and that's all they want. Good on them. If you have good instructors and masters it makes it a little easier to stick with it. I love learning from my instructors and when I get a chance I love to go have class with my master because of the wealth of knowledge and detailed instructing they give because they've been doing it for so long. I like how you said that you are mediocre. I played soccer for years and played on some good teams and some really bad teams. I played at a mediocre DII school in every sense of the word, never had a winning season in the 4 years I played but it was still fun. You'll get out of it what you put in just like any other sport. I could talk about this for days:) Take care, God bless.

[@davidhewitt7315]

A brown belt in tkd (ata) in my town (4800 peeps) founded his own school and gave himself a black belt. Called his school (his name) Karate. His school lasted over a decade before he got outed as a brown belt. Ah, the eighties without internet.

[@derekmcnulty2559]

I think i was blessed with ALL the MA experiences i have endured. Not random beatings. No trash talk (of course some friendly stuff- nothing hard core. In fact- if it was say a professional tournament- my coach would try and send a team to compete. No discouraging. My master would bring in all sorts of instructors. All sorts of MA. Take what works. Discard those which do not.). Just respect for others and a drive to make myself better.

[@mickeysquintz9650]

PAI'S TKD ANYWHERE IN NY STATE! AT AGE 18 I FOUGHT A "SECOND DEGREE INSTRUCTOR" TWICE IN ONE NIGHT AND HE WAS SUPPOSEDLY "UNDEFEATED" AND WAS ALSO ABOUT FIFTEEN YEARS MY SENIOR.

[@awedwards08]

Been to several schools over the course of life. One of them it just felt like everything about the business was set up to nickel-and-dime me out of more money. Monthly fees, oh you need to buy special equipment from us, you need to get this patch sewn on your uniform and must do it through us, testing fee, tournament fee, special seminar fee, t shirt fee, etc. I think instructors have every right to get paid and be successful. But it can get to a point where students start to feel scammed. School I'm at now, I think I actually pay more total, but the costs are upfront and the instructor focuses on teaching instead of constantly hitting me up for money.

[@Jiu-Jitsu-Robot]

Man oh man McDojo life, including loyalty to an instructor as a hallmark of a mcdojo pushing it. The culture in Gracie jiu jitsu of a sharing one’s soul with students isn’t as much based on the instructor preventing training with someone else but the student refusing to do so because they care about their academy and their instructor and you are sure enough just a customer but if you have so little integrity that you run next door the first chance you get, honestly you can just train with them man. Most schools might not care but if you’re training at one that does and you like what you’re getting, I would recommend you ask your instructor if they mind and go about it the right way. What the heck is wrong with loyalty, respect, integrity?

[@Idiopathicnate]

Small world. I studied with Lee Barden for decades. He was like a (dysfunctional) father to me.

[@zachcowley4410]

When i was about 15-16 years old, i was apart of a school that was formed by george dillman (yes, THE george dillman), and i bought into all of his crap. Ex. He taught if you hit three points on the arm, you can shut off somebody's lungs. Im not saying there are points in the body, but to say that arm points can inflict the lungs is absolutely ridiculous. They even had those get ahead camps. So me, who spent years of work to get to the belt i was at (purple senior), then joe schmo, who been there for like two weeks is now a brown belt in a matter of hours (it was like a three hour camp that cost like 25 bucks), you immediately get the feeling of "that's not fair, here i am busting my butt to get this far, and now this guy is ahead of me. Hows that fair?" They did want me to join their elite squad, which meant i got to learn a new weapon out of sticks and sais, but it was a traveling team. I had to pay for everything from the hotel to gas. I ended up leaving because the payment plans were getting out of hand.

[@jagtaggart936]

I went to a Villari's school, and Fred Villari was the grandmaster who coined the term "McDojo" in the 70s in a blackbelt magazine issue, and he meant it as a GOOD thing. The sad thing is, after the school changed from Villari's to "United Studios of Self Defense" it became MORE of a mcdojo. When it was Villari's we were allowed light contact sparring, but when it became USSD it was "no contact" even though we were teenagers, and not small children. I swear this happened, and it sucked. I loved sparring but this ruined it.

[@7tree1outdoors]

The thing about getting a black belt in 2-3 years is simple. As a black belt in karate, I fully believe that the color of your belt has nothing to do with your skills as a fighter in the real world. It only indicates what you've learned in your style. So if it takes 2 years to get a black belt in taekwondo for example, fine. You put in the work to earn it in that style. On the flip side, if it takes you 10 years in BJJ, fine, again you've put in the work And just as a side note, it took me 7 years to get my black belt in karate

[@melvin7324]

The one dislike is a person who realized they were at a mcdojo

[@petewelsh9978]

I joined a mcdojo, and most definitely hit like! I quit immediately

[@juanaguirre3978]

" You can only wear affiliated apparel if you want to train at this gym" --- BJJ McDojo

[@thehastingsdojo2332]

Love this break down, thankyou for sharing and inspiring us all to train hard and smart

[@koreanKarate]

I got 5 belts into this one school called Hap Moo Do a couple years ago. The man told me it was a combination of tae kwon do and hapkido. At the time I had made it to a blue belt in tae kwon do so I was excited to relearn some that I’d forgotten. Well turns out the guy was full of shit and started his own martial art. And it was very evident he’d only studied TKD and maybe a little jiu jitsu. I showed my friend who was in bjj the grappling and tosses we did and he just said they’re all wrong. I couldn’t even throw him I guess we’d all been conditioned just to fall when we did the moves.

[@csyarid]

I think when the definition was speaking of working for profit in a bad way, it was referring to how you structure your lessons and operate your business. BJJ is a good example of that. The way if teaching BJJ is so very inefficient and unproductive to the point that I think it is done that way deliberately. The longer it takes to learn, the longer you will be there learning and therefore paying.

[@leodouskyron5671]

The cash for belts thing that I have seen at one place I knew (closed now because was about 20 years back) really classed it as a McDojo. While it was possible to learn only some “students” were really focused on or trained -and you could tell them with a picture. As long as you paid though you got your black belt. (Just my experience worth the paper it is written on)

[@psuedomonas1]

Prolonging promotion can also be a tactic for student retention and thus continouos income. Being a black belt imo is not the end of practicing martial arts or being the super practicioner.

[@de0509]

I once learnt silat at this school. It was the cheapest cocurricular activity of my life. The fees are basically just there to not make the school a nonprofit org. Instructors are mostly volunteers. It was a spiritual journey too. We were taught to strive, to hope for the best, and then to accept all outcomes as the decree of fate. Which is a good mindset that extrapolates outside martial arts. No mats tho. We train on some el cheapo grass as our padding. As for combat ability, its got great standup takedowns and defense, but lacking on ground fighting. Id say great as a first martial art style to pick up before learning another style. Would still go there in another lifetime if time reverses.

[@spaight711]

A red flag for me is attendance based ranking. I don’t have a problem with a minimum attendance before being eligible for a given rank, provided it’s reasonable. I mean schools that allow students to earn rank just by attending. Rank should be earned by demonstrating improved technique that correlates with a defined curriculum.

[@NickvonZ]

Very good video, as always!

[@Otaku155]

Just to give everyone a reality check; I have been a practitioner of Iaido since I was 16. It took me 5 years to reach 1st Dan; another 10 years to earn 2nd Dan. I became 3rd Dan when I was 38. I have never worn a 'belt.' Real mastery of martial arts takes a lifetime, and is never complete. It's not about wearing a belt or being cool; its about learning and bettering yourself.

[@ihatemilo]

Bros the ultimate otaku

[@DaitoryuBlog]

I'd suggest a sixth point: cultural/historical inaccuracies. Many martial arts training halls still heavily rely on foreign cultures as their backbone. For example, in the case of Japanese and Chinese arts, you'll find locations using the wrong language or words, or spewing a version of history that either is unverifiable or does not line up with the broader historical context they are referring to. It can be hard to debunk those on your own, but you can try to find someone with relevant background (university researcher, native speaker or linguist, etc.) to verify the claims. As you've mentioned, martial arts are not always, or only, about fighting and combat; one of the reasons to engage in them is as a cultural activity. As such, just as one is to expect the instructor's background to be accurate, so should be the language used and historical references. And thankfully, those can often be cross-checked with people outside of the martial arts field.

[@makenjikarate]

Great video, I do agree the term McDojo has been somewhat overused and it's horrible how instructors abuse their position and students

[@saiyankinggoji]

my dojang doesnt fall under these categories except for 1. The whole shady buisness practices, like they do charge for testing and sparring gear, they tell you about the sparring gear when you join like oh when you get to green belt you do need sparring gear, the only thing they didn't tell us about was testing payment. I joined and just bought the uniform and payed for the month but they didnt tell us we had to pay for testing, I didnt question it because I thought it made sense, since you're basically paying for a new belt and stuff. Other then that when it comes to gear n stuff they already got that squared away, its just the testing they didnt tell us about. And I mean I dont mind it honestly, I have friends there and I get alot out of going to class, I can afford it so I dont have a problem with it.

[@nrmkay]

I had chronic illness so I was unable to try martial arts, but I sort of figured there was something weird about small children I grew up with comparing belt colors to argue over who was "tougher"

[@Christiantkd]

Great video. Thanks for always keeping things real.

[@herculesmwp7983]

Glad my gym is very legit. And I love it there

[@kayd.1600]

When I was a kid I took TKD and there was this kid, I think his name was Louis. Louis had potential, but didn’t care and constantly goofed off. He was in the program way longer than me and he had failed several belt tests. Finally we were testing for our green belts and his mom threatened to pull him out of the school if he failed again, so the instructor just shut up and gave him the belt even though he didn’t earn it. Do I think that school was a McDojo? Absolutely not. I worked my butt off for a year and a half to get that green belt and so did the rest of the class. It was a tiny school struggling to stay open and they made a decision to promote ONE student who didn’t deserve it to keep the lights on. Like it or not, this stuff happens. Like Rob said, these are businesses who depend on people’s money, regardless of the customer’s actual work ethic. If these people don’t get promoted, then sooner or later they’ll quit, so the schools are sometimes in a position where they feel they have to promote a person who doesn’t deserve it. It’s unfortunate, but it’s the world we live in.

[@sergioestrada7459]

I use to train in a BJJ academy in Miami and they reproached me in a tournament for not wearing matching rash guard and pants in a tournament. Also, the receptionist had the audacity to tell me not to cross train and gave me a bad attitude one night, for not wearing a matching no gi set for a class.

[@saltyshellback]

I got my black belt in Tang Soo Do in 3?years because I trained 4-5 days a week and I also had previously taken TKD at a different school. People believe that there is a minimum time frame to get a black belt don't consider training duration or intensity and previous experience. I am also very mediocre. My goal of taking martial arts is more for fitness than self defense.

[@Floridamangaming729]

Honestly i didn’t even consider this when i was picking a dojo. Im still trying to find one but its hard in my area. Lakeland florida sucks. I want to do judo but theres only like 2 dojo’s that offer it. Guess ill just go with whats popular which is MMA.

[@andrewdennehy9458]

"Super mediocre" should be on a t-shirt next to "Worlds OK-est grappler!"

[@danielhounshell2526]

The only things I've seen sticks used for in martial arts training is either weapons training, demonstrations (where people actually do get hit, but not by anything resembling the logs in this video) and physical conditioning, with things like rolling a stick over the shins.

[@deuceph]

I started Shotokan Karate when I was six. My father was the part owner of our dojo, who is 3rd degree black belt. When I turned 12 back in 1996, I wanted to learn Judo because I thought striking is not enough to be a complete fighter. My father forbid me. LOL Too bad I didn't have my own money to pay for Judo training.

[@PopoMedic]

Love this haha

[@dwb6243]

Sup mr popo

[@KenMikaze]

There's a bit of wisdom as to why a lot of schools don't allow newbies to cross train with other schools. Schools like TKD follow a stringent pattern to follow, such as basic forms, self defense techniques and basic blocks, kicks and punches in order for you to advance to another coloured belt. It's only after you've reached your 2nd dan that you can cross train with another school. Even Bruce Lee acknowledged this in his statement: I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times. Now, I'm not saying cross-training is bad - it's highly recommendable, however, what I meant is that you have to master your basics first so that you'll have enough understanding towards your martial arts journey. After all, a punch is a punch, a kick is a kick, and a grapple is a grapple.

[@jacksecomb4916]

I think alot of mislabeling comes from people thinking an ineffective martial art equals a McDojo I've personally seen alot of Dojos that verbally make it clear that what they teach isn't that good for self defence or competition labelled as McDojos

[@tonyhenthorn3966]

3:20 Right on! I'm into submission wrestling bigtime, even though I'd rather lose a match than hurt the other guy. Nothing quite like the aggression and struggle of tying another dude up (and trying not to get tied up) without having to worry about getting injured, sued, or thrown in jail. I'm 46, so I know I'll never be the next Royce Gracie or Gordon Ryan. But I'm having fun, so I don't care!

[@Jakafe]

You self-proclaiming to be "mediocre" is, I think, the pinnacle of "Kekki no yuu o imashimuru koto" from the Dojo Kun.

[@johnmcintosh8673]

Some people here are non Japanese speakers, some don't even practise Japanese martial arts, quelle horror (how awful). How about providing a translation of non English phrases, I presume you are an English speaker judging from your post, so maybe in English?

[@Jakafe]

@@johnmcintosh8673 oh, of course. It's the ability to refrain. In my culture, the more educated a person is, the humbler he/she acts, which I think correlates to that particular oath/rule. We call it oath here for some reason, while it's commonly referred to as "rule" in general.

[@MrCmon113]

@@Jakafe So toddlers have to act extremely arrogant?

[@shinpaws1014]

This vid needs to be mandatory in schools everywhere

[@paintedbear]

I think an element that most makes me think of something as a McDojo is not making money but instead letting someone buy the rank. A guaranteed black belt by X date if you pay Y amount, for example. Or otherwise using something other than merit in the art to progress in ranks. I would argue that pedophiles don't make a McDojo, but instead would refer to that as something specific to what it is: an opportunity predators exploit to gain access to minors. Your definition, you do what you want with it, but I just think they need a more serious category than being lumped in with someone who makes up an art and declares themselves to be a grandmaster.

[@leonpeters-malone3054]

Coming to this late and reading some of the comments I'm reminded of a few lines from Musashi on the matter. Avoid schools that only have a single gimmick, single trick, single 'secret'. Over compliance, whatever you want to call it, pretty sure he would rail against it too. He was a crusty grumpy old man. Learning say military sabre and small sword in this case is not going to be practical, it's not going to be Olympic fencing, it's not going to be anything other than military sabre and small sword for my historical interest. It's all it needs to be. So..... no arguments there. Where I want to add something, some perspective is that let's say I start reading some English sabre manuals and I arrange a few people who regularly get together to do it and a formal club/dojo/school comes out of it. If it's all we need it to be, then it's all we need it to be. You can't just judge a school by it's teacher, you need to look at the students too. What the students are permitted, encouraged to be like on the matt. Is it a mutually supporting group that offer tips, tricks, time to learn, consideration and patience. Or is it rather the opposite? I'd consider a sixth rule to McDojo, something around bullying, overly enforced hierarchy. Something that values the belt colour, rank, pips ahead of the student itself. Once upon a time I was in a tournament/hard training class. Wearing protective kit, short sharp and fast bouts, faced everyone in the class. Adults class too. Right class for my age bracket/build. I scored a point on a black belt as a new blue belt. It was only one point, he did an axe kick, I moved in took the hit on the shoulder and scored a clean punch to the chest. It was a point in the rules of the class. Centre target was a point, helmet was a point, anything else wasn't. From memory. Black belts reaction was 'I should have disengaged.' Well, I saw an opening, it was high risk, but I got in fast enough and I got the punch in. I compare that to when I was first learning some long sword, I recall a time where I was disarmed. So I closed, palm strike thing to the fencing mask. Point was called in my favour and that aggression wasn't..... complained about. It was complimented. I might have lost my sword, but I didn't lose the aggression, I didn't let the fight get taken from me. I changed the tone and made sure the sword of my opponent was not a risk to me. To be clear, in the TKD case, I'm not saying I should have gone to some BJJ, something else, anything else. I'll be the first to say these were the rules, these were the conditions of the bouts, this is how it's fought. What I am saying is that the rules apply equally, to everyone. The colour of their belt, uniform, whatever, doesn't matter. If you score a point, it's on the board, if you score a touch, it's paid and not just because there's judges, instructors looking. I think back to the experience and I know which stands out as the better experience and which the worse. If you're not happy to try and lift your students up, help them learn and find out how they learn, I'm not sure you should be in the business of.

[@IvoryPagoda]

I hope my BJJ gym remains profitable to it's owner, otherwise I'm driving 90 minutes to the next closest BJJ gym - which would suck. Remaining profitable is a big deal to the students, too.

[@guts1224]

Unfortunately, the first martial arts school I attended was a mcdojo. I stayed for 2.5 years and was coordinator and head instructor there. I didn't what I could to be honest, have integrity, and make sure it wasn't so much of a mcdojo while I was working there. I stopped the fees for belt tests, the lies, implemented stronger class structures and curriculum, and made sure I gave every student and parent what they expected. I doubled the schools income within 6 months and all the students and parents made it known that the school was running better for it. Unfortunately for them and me, I was micromanaged and I was pressured to lie and make excuses for the lack of good business practices. I left the school in order to maintain my integrity. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done: leaving all the students. I started training under Kaensak sor Ploenjit in Muay Thai and have been ever since. The difference was clear in seeing some one that cares more about the students art as opposed to profit. Thanks for the video!

[@guts1224]

@@hardcaliber19 I found it good practice and good for retention to take a set percentage of the students' annual tuition fees and give it right back to the student in the form of various gifts, memory pieces, etc.. The belt test would be included in that. We would hold belt tests on Saturdays after class We never took a hit on profits for the month/year in including belts, boards, refreshments, and staff pay. This ended up helping our retention and growing the business since we allowed family's to bring guests and the families would recommend us. All of the students and parents knew that I cared most about the students and not the profits too.

[@cuylshepherdton7437]

Somebody gotta ask Eddie Bravo about this after watching Tony Ferguson put Kevin Lee's trapped arm on the wrong side when he triangle choked him. Add in his submission defense vs Oliveira and vs that heel hook most recently for bonus points.

[@McDojoLife]

Not sure how that fits here

[@itsamemikeg]

The Kama Jiujitsu guy just came out with a video about not allowing members to train at other schools. I thought that was weird as well.

[@WadeSmith-oe5xd]

If your brown and black belts do not circuit train at least 15 to 20 hours per week, and if you never spar full contact "as close to no rules as possible", then you are at a McDojo. If you points spar, you are definitely at a McDojo.

[@michaelfrazier3577]

Thank you brother for this one.

[@Grizz_Zilla]

Always pay attention to lineage at least that's what I know from bjj lineage means alot

[@robcubed9557]

About the "black belt in 2-3 years" thing.......It partly depends on the student's training schedule and background as well. For example someone whose wrestled through high school and college (8 years grappling experience) AND has a black belt in Judo AND trained no-gi BJJ for 3-4 years (no belts) might find themselves progressing through the ranks faster than a truly untrained individual. At my BJJ school there are also a handful of individuals that train twice per day (they compete and they're in their early-to-mid 20's) and do this 3-4 days per week. So they train as much in 3 months as I would in an entire year.

[@McDojoLife]

I discuss that in the video

[@robcubed9557]

@@McDojoLife Yes, you mention specific fighters but I wanted to clarify your point for the casual viewer who may not recognize those names.

[@yesbutactuallyno8305]

I saw Grandmaster Wolf on a scary compilation channel🤣😂 Great episode!

[@Jagunco]

I'm struggling with my own school at the moment, but its not a McDojo. I agree with the list though

[@LeadGRuaidri]

Damn... Its the Goob_u2 of martial arts. Respect.

[@McDojoLife]

I know him. Been doing this for a decade though. Maybe goob is the McDojoLife of weights? 🤔

[@LeadGRuaidri]

@@McDojoLife maybe he is, but you both GOATed for it. 🤝

[@McDojoLife]

@@LeadGRuaidri truly appreciate the support

[@rashiro]

Good list, really covers it.

[@devriestown]

Brazilian jiu jujitsu is very like that. Not allowed to train else where.

[@skeletonfilms3650]

I do kenpo and love your channel

[@McDojoLife]

Appreciate the support. Thank you

[@studbourbon798]

U could always get an Asian handyman to teach u.

[@saltyshellback]

I got my black belt in Tang Soo Do in 3?years because I trained 4-5 days a week and I also had previously taken TKD at a different school. People believe that there is a minimum time frame to get a black belt don't consider training duration or intensity and previous experience. I am also very mediocre. My goal of taking martial arts is more for fitness than self defense. I do believe many martial arts schools have been watered down due to the profit motive.

[@McDojoLife]

Profit typically happens off the mats not on the mats. It’s a common misconception for a lot of school owners and a lot don’t take the time to learn good business practices. It’s unfortunate

[@saltyshellback]

@@McDojoLife There's a good video from a school owner who said that he has to balance training people who come to just socialize or "build self esteem" with customers who really want to train in the art. When he has hardcore customers who ask why the socializing customers get promoted even when they are not as good as the hard core customers, he tells them because the socializing customers keep the doors open so hardcore customers have somewhere to train. Sounds like a good reason to me.

[@McDojoLife]

@@saltyshellback that is a poor business practice. 🤷🏻‍♂️ if you do your job correctly this won’t be a standard practice. Been doing martial arts business consulting for over a decade.

[@colt8282]

Yeah. People lie all the time. It’s one of the things I check before deciding on a dojo. I’ve trained under some really cool people. Which makes me look like a liar until I bring photos and proof. But I’m not nearly as impressive as some as my instructor. I currently train at Las Vegas shotokan karate. But used to train at red dragon karate.