Jody Jazz DV Saxophone Mouthpiece Test and Review

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Sax School Online

Sax School Online

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 112
@jodyespina9452
@jodyespina9452 4 жыл бұрын
Nigel, You sound great. Thank you very much for allowing me to do the session with your sax school and for this great demo/review of the mouthpieces. You sound perfect but I think you need either a 7* or 8* on the tenor.
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Cheers Jody. I do normally play an 8. It would be interesting to see the difference.
@StackThePlanet
@StackThePlanet 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the opportunity, Nigel!
@guydelorme417
@guydelorme417 4 жыл бұрын
Hello Nigel, You are so right about playing a professional mouthpiece too soon. By experience, I bought a Jody Jazz metal I sold it because I was not ready. Now would be a difference except that now I cannot afford such a jewel. Both of these mouthpieces sound great classical or jazz. Great video, Always something new to present. I like it more when you have a ''GIVE AWAY''
@donearnhardt6336
@donearnhardt6336 4 жыл бұрын
I have a DV for alto and it plays very well, but I do find it a little too bright for some situations. Projection is terrific.
@Spellrbound
@Spellrbound 4 жыл бұрын
Hi Nigel and saxpals, been playing tenor 3 yrs, 1.5 hrs a day, upgraded from a Yani metal 6 to JJ dv 7* 6 months ago but have found it hard going, I can get a nice sound from it but I dont really think I,m up to it yet, soon get tired chops so it,s been put away for a while in the hope my chops get a lot stronger in the future. Must say looks like a piece of jewellry.
@perboysen
@perboysen 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for another highly interesting and educational upload! - I have a JJ SuperJet 8* for my tenor. I like it although it isn't exactly versatile. But it is nice in the way that it combines both fat and "modern" bright top-end tone in its sound and because the wide tip opening lets you do wider gliding on notes (I play a lot of guitar too, so glissando is dear to me. Bending strings, lap steel etc). The SuperJet has more lower mid-range compared to the Durga IV 8 and Shiva III 8 that I have tried, meaning the SuperJet 8* gives me a bit "warmer" sound (but rather flat and boring low notes). My tenor is a Conn 10M from 1936, a model that has a naturally darker tone and I think it sounds good with these bright MPCs. But none of these MPCs is so easy to play as my first MPC, an old Otto Link STM 9* made in the mid-seventies. Judy tried it once, at a workshop, and said "this is a great MPC, don't ever sell it". Well, the Link plays exceptionally well, for me, but the sound is so dark in the upper register that it doesn't always work well in certain types of recordings. I thought that it was the bigger tip opening (9*) that makes my Link so playable and ordered a JJ DV Chi 9*, but unfortunately, I could hardly play the Chi at all. Apparently, JJ DV pieces need smaller tip openings to match Otto Link metal (?) and I'm now selling my JJ DV Chi. My dream is to find a bright baffled MPC that is as easy to play as my old Otto Link STM 9*. I'm still searching... - For Soprano sax my fav mpc is a JJ HR* 6* and I prefer its sound to the sound of a JJ DV 8*. But with the more open DV I can do wider glides, so I use that one when long note glides are required for a melody recording - but the JJ HR* really is my favorite.
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Cheers Per, great to hear about your mouthpiece journey there. I’d like to try the HR on soprano too.
@perboysen
@perboysen 4 жыл бұрын
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool Ask JJ to lend you a test MPC and make a video! In this DV video, it was really great to hear you talking about how you experience the gear, and a HR* soprano shot-out of this kind would be wonderful.
@henkjonkman6143
@henkjonkman6143 4 жыл бұрын
Sound is clear and full round, i would try this mouthpiece
@jogorse758
@jogorse758 4 жыл бұрын
Great review Nigel thanks! Love the new McGill Theme tune! I missed the Jody Jazz masterclass, this has reminded me to go watch it.
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Cheers Jo, definitely watch the Jody Masterclass replay in Sax School - loads of great info there.
@ScaerieTale
@ScaerieTale 4 жыл бұрын
Every player I've ever heard playing a DV has gotten the sound I want to get out of my sax. Definitely going to enter, but one way or another, someday it will be mine 😍 Love that combination of smooth and brassy potential especially on the alto. Thanks SO MUCH for providing this chance to win one of these amazing mouthpieces
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
My pleasure! Sounds like you need to try one of these.
@ScaerieTale
@ScaerieTale 4 жыл бұрын
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool Haha yeah, I almost picked up a cheap Chinese knockoff once, but I'd rather wait 'till I can afford the real deal and see how it compares to my Vandoren MP
@hassebarrefors1612
@hassebarrefors1612 2 жыл бұрын
I love this. Lately I’ve played a Yamaha 6C with various synthetic reeds from Légère, and love all three, but I’m going to go for the DV 7 now. Big adventure, so I make a fool of myself, but I’ll learn a lot and have a lot of fun in the process. ❤️🎷
@philtaska4258
@philtaska4258 4 жыл бұрын
Great video, Mr. McGill. Thumbs up. I play a Jody Jazz HR* 5M with a Legere American Cut 2.0 on my Conn CAS280RC. Great projection, centered sound, and so versatile. Started playing again in July 2020 after not touching a sax since 1978. P.s. Love Legere reeds, and they are GOOD to their customers, too. :)) Jody Jazz and Legere make wonderful music together. Thanks again.
@rogerrennardsilverfox
@rogerrennardsilverfox 4 жыл бұрын
This is great Nigel. What a versatile mouthpiece. Great projection if you want to blast something out like Clarence Clemons and subtle enough for quiet notes in some kinds of Jazz ballad. Love it.
@AaronTMartin
@AaronTMartin 4 жыл бұрын
Great video, Nigel (as usual), and thanks for the opportunity with the giveaway! I play the HR* (6* tip opening) on tenor and love it. It is very reed-friendly and free-blowing. In my opinion, the HR* is probably the most versatile of the Jody Jazz pieces. It could be played equally well in a wind ensemble, a big band, small group settings, and maybe even in groups playing more contemporary music. To me, the DV is a mouthpiece suited to semi-pro players and above, since its price point is above the cost of a budget tenor sax (unless of course one has the disposable income and the desire to spend that kind of money on a mouthpiece). Thanks again!
@Paulou62
@Paulou62 4 жыл бұрын
Very informative, thanks Nigel!
@ronlang7236
@ronlang7236 4 жыл бұрын
I purchased a tenor DV CHI 7* about 2 months ago. I love the sound, although it took me a few weeks to adjust. One day I decided to use the Legere American Cut 2.5 reed. To my surprise, my upper lip began to bleed. Being a retired engineer, I was certainly curious as to why. I noticed that the reed was slightly wider than the Legere Signature version and my cane reeds. And it's slightly wider than the rails of the mouthpiece. Apparently, the vibrating reed buzz-sawed the left side of my upper lip. I did not blame the mouthpiece or the reed, rather, I tried to determine if my embouchure was the culprit and how to adjust. I reached out to Nigel after he interviewed Jody Espina in a previous video. Nigel was so cordial and helpful to me in my search for a solution. He reached out to Jody. There were a few exchanges of email among the three of us. Jody identified my problem. I needed more uptake of the mouthpiece into my mouth due to the relatively narrower tip to avoid the larger tip opening (7* compared to my previous mouthpiece openings of 5) acting like a buzz saw on my lip.
@fg87fgd
@fg87fgd 4 жыл бұрын
I play a Jody Jazz DV NY alto, and it's my absolut favourite. Never played this nice sounding DV, though.
@benstevensMTB
@benstevensMTB 4 жыл бұрын
Looks awesome 🎷🎷🎷!!! Sounds awesome as well!
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Cheers Ben
@TCNHC
@TCNHC 2 жыл бұрын
I play the DV 7 on my tenor. The best mouthpiece I have tried by far. But for alto I'm using the Jody Jazz HR custom dark 6 that produces a gorgeous sound. Both are fantastic mouthpieces.
@jschleher83
@jschleher83 4 жыл бұрын
Your videos have been extremely helpful! My son wanted to learn how to play "You Belong To The City", and came across your video on KZbin. He's learned so much from your videos. ❤️
@ScotlandDroneImaging
@ScotlandDroneImaging 4 жыл бұрын
The sound is clear ! compared to my Yamaha 4C. Does sound great for commercial songs.
@garyreid6165
@garyreid6165 4 жыл бұрын
I have always been curious about switching from the traditional hard rubber mouthpiece to a metal mouthpiece. JodyJazz makes a wide selection of mouthpieces to suit every need for every player. Sadly, I have never played a JodyJazz mouthpiece but I am interested in owning a metal and a hard rubber from JodyJazz...someday. The DV model sounds like a go-to mouthpiece for the pros who know many of the techniques of sound and projection. Nigel, I love the new beginning. It is upbeat, peppy, snappy, funky and to the point. Bravo!
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Cheers Gary!
@donnicholson3200
@donnicholson3200 4 жыл бұрын
Your new intro clip sounds great - crisp and punchy. I have a JJ HR* 6 for my alto and it's my main mouthpiece - very responsive and versatile, precision made.
@fionadawkins6023
@fionadawkins6023 4 жыл бұрын
Sound is very clear
@mahendrawardhana3189
@mahendrawardhana3189 4 жыл бұрын
I love Jody Jazz mouthpieces. I play Jody Jazz Giant 7* for Tenor and Jets 6* for more projection. I also have the HR 6* and Jets 6* Alto.
@oldfieldosteopathicclinic5099
@oldfieldosteopathicclinic5099 4 жыл бұрын
Hi Nigel. I upgraded my mouthpiece 5 weeks ago, from an Otto Link Supertone Master 7* to a Jody Jazz DV NY 7* and am really loving it. I think the NY version is closer in sound to a more traditional Jazz mouthpiece, but is so much easier to blow. I use Boston Sax shop reads (3) and play an Andy Sheppard Autograph Tenor.
@Samuel-ge7im
@Samuel-ge7im 4 жыл бұрын
Great video Nigel
@craigfindlay1835
@craigfindlay1835 4 жыл бұрын
Another great video! I've been playing for 14 months now and am looking to upgrade my Yamaha 4C. Tough times to be play testing mouthpieces.. But you've made a strong case with this for my alto!! Thanks Nigel ✌&💚
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Glad it was helpful Craig. I think Jody offers a testing option.
@adysaxman77
@adysaxman77 2 жыл бұрын
Nice review, does the DV Tenor mouthpiece come with it's own ligature, or are you using your own on the demo?
@geoffparker6332
@geoffparker6332 2 жыл бұрын
I use a DV NY mouthpiece on my alto and am looking for a new mouthpiece for my soprano (both Yanagisawa WO1s).
@WOLF-xo2xg
@WOLF-xo2xg 4 жыл бұрын
I just bought a Jodyjazz jet alto 7.
@daveshirley9461
@daveshirley9461 2 жыл бұрын
Another great video Nigel! I'm investigating the minefield of mouthpieces, ligatures and appropriate reeds before I invest, but not sure if my Trevor Horn Revolution 2 sax would make this purchase sensible?
@KaySax67
@KaySax67 4 жыл бұрын
Waiting for a Star to fall ..... brings back memories .. great sound Nigel
@geoffcsax
@geoffcsax 4 жыл бұрын
Nigel could make a kazoo sound great. On tenor I was impressed with "Tears in Heaven" the other two not so much. I thought it was lacking on the Jazz standard.
@davidhayes4432
@davidhayes4432 4 жыл бұрын
Great video and loads of good information. I play on a JJ DV Bass saxophone mouthpiece on my Martin Eb Baritone sax. It sounds amazing and makes the vintage bari play in tune.
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Wow, that sounds like an interesting combo!
@davidhayes4432
@davidhayes4432 4 жыл бұрын
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool Its an idea not too many people think of. Most vintage horns are picky about mouthpieces but vintage bari’s are even more picky. This combo works on my horn and might work for others.
@annaperera4166
@annaperera4166 4 жыл бұрын
I have a Jody Jazz HRa 5 opening and a Vandoran Java 2.5 reed (and other Vandoran reeds) Love the warm sound of this mouthpiece
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Nice one Anna.
@jamesc1698
@jamesc1698 4 жыл бұрын
Hi Nigel... I absolutely love the Jody Jazz DV. I use Them on both Tenor & Alto.
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Cool! Do you use the same size on alto as tenor?
@jamesc1698
@jamesc1698 4 жыл бұрын
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool I use the 7 * on the Tenor and the 5 on the Alto.
@jamesc1698
@jamesc1698 4 жыл бұрын
If you get time go to my channel and you can hear both DV’s As I play different songs with the DV’s on Tenor and Alto. The Fifth Video I’m using the Alto and the rest are Tenor. I’m not saying listen to the whole song, just a few seconds. Here is the link if you want to check it out... ( KZbin.com/channel/UCpnRNh8VLEzAE8Nxi9EMwHg )
@jamesc1698
@jamesc1698 4 жыл бұрын
Sorry Nigel, on the Channel The Alto is the 1st one.
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing the link James. I’ll check it out.
@timtuthill4915
@timtuthill4915 4 жыл бұрын
Very nice on alto
@F15774137842
@F15774137842 3 жыл бұрын
YES! I liked the intro music 😀
@johno.2748
@johno.2748 4 жыл бұрын
Sound great, well designed!
@nhr27
@nhr27 4 жыл бұрын
Great review - If you want darker get the DV NY. I personally play an HR* 6 and I love it. I also own a Jet for fun :-)
@derekakien7379
@derekakien7379 4 жыл бұрын
Nice! They have a full, round sound. Beautifully engineered.
@DolphScreamingSax
@DolphScreamingSax 4 жыл бұрын
The big question to Nigel is: ''Is it going to replace your Theo Wanne Durga IV as your main mouthpiece on Tenor?''
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Not sure Dolph. I have been using the Theo Wanne Slant Sig a lot but lately I’ve been exploring those more commercial sounds. Also I really do like the DV on my alto.
@zaxophne
@zaxophne 3 жыл бұрын
Still playing the Dave Guardala tenor?
@gamingorrtech8763
@gamingorrtech8763 4 жыл бұрын
Have you tried Claude lakey? If so what's your opinion?
@diegobalux4092
@diegobalux4092 4 жыл бұрын
Sorry, which brand of reed do you use for the JodyJazz DV Alto Saxophone Mouthpiece Model 9 (.100 tip)
@robertdedios8693
@robertdedios8693 4 жыл бұрын
Man you always sound great...on anything. While my main piece is a OttoLink ToneMaster, I use the JJ Chi as my electric band piece. I found it was easier to warm up than the DV and the DV NY didnt really get me the edge I was looking for. I did need to get a more open piece and a stiffer reed.
@dazzab4244
@dazzab4244 4 жыл бұрын
Love the review. Have been considering upgrading myself and have been interested in the Drake ‘Son of Slant’. Any thoughts Nigel?
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Good question Dazza. I haven’t tried any of the Drake pieces. Let me know what you decide on.
@vincentgaglio5106
@vincentgaglio5106 4 жыл бұрын
Awesome sound
@orlaspring363
@orlaspring363 4 жыл бұрын
The new intro sounds nice. I liked your DV sound best on the alto. Maybe the 8 would give you more on the tenor. Still it had good body. I don't have a JJ mpc yet. Santa's coming soon, so maybe?
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Cheers Orla. I’m still getting used to them.
@larrietiernan9601
@larrietiernan9601 4 жыл бұрын
Great to have a competition give away. #JodyJazz mouth pieces are quality!
@paulhillman8299
@paulhillman8299 4 жыл бұрын
Hi I use the DV NY version 7* on my tenor. It is really responsive, with a lovely deep sound but also nice resonant upper register. Really please with it.
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Cool, great to hear that Paul.
@maryc6173
@maryc6173 3 жыл бұрын
Very nice, warm sound. I play mostly classical on a very old C* and Big Band on a Meyer 5. I've been playing on the Legere 2.5 Signature Series (US) having moved from a VanDoren 3 for years. I play Pit on both and Meyer on my soprano. At the end of your video, you say the DV "could" work for Big Band. I'm looking specifically for a Big Band mouthpiece. The Meyer 5 is just a bit too thin sounding. I actually end up playing on the C* which works, but would like a more commercial sound. I've been playing for 60 yrs. Would you still recommend the DV? Thanks for much.
@maryc6173
@maryc6173 3 жыл бұрын
PS My alto is a Selmer Mark IV. I'm the original owner.
@okeomaczuma-chuzumara603
@okeomaczuma-chuzumara603 4 жыл бұрын
I need help. I learn better when I do live. I need somewhere in or around Elyria Ohio to take live sax lessons. What do you suggest?
@richardolson8651
@richardolson8651 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks very nice. One thing I was wondering about is the chamber and air support. When I find a mpc that I really like it will always have a large chamber. If its a 7* or larger I can't keep the horn up and running. I get great sound but can't hold low notes with out huffing and puffing. I'm 77 years old and have some lung issues so I no I have to adapt to what works. I'm currently playing a 6* with soft reed but it has large chamber. I'm beginning to think the chamber is as important as tip opening. Do you think these new chamber and baffling take more air. Some resistance is good for me. This would be a great subject for video. It's very expensive to try new things on the market. Thanks Dick
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Interesting question Dick. I don’t find the DV takes more air, in fact it probably takes less air than my hard rubber Theo Wanne Slant Sig. Also finding the right reed combo is super important.
@richardolson8651
@richardolson8651 4 жыл бұрын
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool Thanks for ur response. I look foward to ur videos. Not only are u a great player you no what you're talking about. Dick
@yonilopez100
@yonilopez100 2 жыл бұрын
Muy interesante, me gustó más el sonido con el saxo tenor, no tanto con el alto
@mylesbetter8978
@mylesbetter8978 4 жыл бұрын
I play on JJ DV on alto and tenor 🎷
@Mrfixit1099
@Mrfixit1099 3 жыл бұрын
Sounds great on Alto!
@calvinherman448
@calvinherman448 4 жыл бұрын
I do play DV jody Jazz on both alto and tenor. I really love them! Calvin Herman
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Cool. What size do you play Calvin?
@calvinherman448
@calvinherman448 4 жыл бұрын
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool I play #6 on both and use #3 fiberreed.
@LuisPabloGasparotto
@LuisPabloGasparotto 4 жыл бұрын
You sound great on everything, even on a Yamaha 4C. Excellent review, clear and honest. I have an alto DV NY but I find it too dark so I don't play it too often, I play a Meyer 6 or Beechler Diamond Inlay S6M instead. Maybe I'd fell more comfortable with a DV or maybe I need to spend more time with the DV NY for getting the best of it.
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Luis! Well it is important to find what works for you. Perhaps the Beecher or Meyer suits you better.
@LuisPabloGasparotto
@LuisPabloGasparotto 4 жыл бұрын
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool Thank you for your reply, you're very kind. I gave the DVNY a new chance and I liked it better than before, I guess I'll use it more often on rehearsals and gigs when COVID19 allows us to do it. Best regards!
@Gaz77a
@Gaz77a Жыл бұрын
I am finding the American cut Legere reeds are slightly wide on the the DV and cut my lip. Do you find this?
@Gaz77a
@Gaz77a Жыл бұрын
I am finding the new Legere French Cut reeds are really working with my alto DV size 6.
@AGC828
@AGC828 3 жыл бұрын
I would think the DV actually WOULD benefit some one new because it is a "do everything" mouthpiece. The mouthpieces a new player I think should avoid are the ones known for being dark or "loud". Like the Ambika and the Shiva. Or Jody Jazz's DV NY and Super Jet. Get a mouthpiece that's considered neutral...in the middle...Once the player determines what kind of sound they're looking for or prefer...dark, are they then in a band doing live performances? THEN get a mouthpiece that helps them project "cut through"...play "louder"...that's after picking the "right sax" HEH...do they know if they want a "focused" sound or a "spread out" sound? Do they know what that sounds like?
@thereispowerinthenameofjes7742
@thereispowerinthenameofjes7742 4 жыл бұрын
What kind of ligature you use? And what do you think is best for beginners alto sax?
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Good question. With my Jody jazz pieces I’m using their ligature - it’s kind of like a Rovner style with a single screw on top. If you are just starting out on sax I would actually go for something like a Yamaha 4c until to you get your skills together. Check out my video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/on-cd3xtlNJmhpo
@thereispowerinthenameofjes7742
@thereispowerinthenameofjes7742 4 жыл бұрын
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool Thank you
@thereispowerinthenameofjes7742
@thereispowerinthenameofjes7742 4 жыл бұрын
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool I’m trying to get the Yamaha 4c if I can get it thank you
@rn5193
@rn5193 4 жыл бұрын
Very nice sound, but too expensive for me. You played on the alto with a Légère with Signature american cut and a standard on the tenor. Could you explain the differences you found between american and standard cut. My music vendor could not explain me the advantages of the american cut. I saw only a increased price.
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Good question. Actually I was only playing an Signature Cut on my tenor because I don’t have an American Cut in the right strength for the DV. I normally play 2.5 but 2.75 seemed to work better for me. I really like the Signature and have played them exclusively for the past few years, but since the American Cut came out I’m using them all the time. For me the American Cut has more body and just responds better than the Signature. I really like them.
@jimmyb1133
@jimmyb1133 4 жыл бұрын
I use a Jody Jazz Jet 7 on tenor and alto sax ....
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Cool!
@MrSzymisiu
@MrSzymisiu 4 жыл бұрын
I live it
@vincentgaglio5106
@vincentgaglio5106 4 жыл бұрын
Awesome
@Alexysax
@Alexysax 3 жыл бұрын
I play dv 😇😇😇
@1977BEE
@1977BEE 4 жыл бұрын
Sounds great...but cannot justify the cost.
@madmadrigal66
@madmadrigal66 4 жыл бұрын
Maybe because it has goold?
@derekakien7379
@derekakien7379 4 жыл бұрын
"The quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten".
@GilesMcNeil
@GilesMcNeil 4 жыл бұрын
I can't figure out how to enter the competition. Can anyone give me some clues?
@McGillMusicSaxSchool
@McGillMusicSaxSchool 4 жыл бұрын
Sure Giles. Enter from our website here: www.mcgillmusic.com/jody-jazz-giveaway/
@GilesMcNeil
@GilesMcNeil 4 жыл бұрын
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool Thanks very much.
@joseceraia
@joseceraia Жыл бұрын
the tenor sounds like alto
@mambojazz1
@mambojazz1 4 жыл бұрын
Who is the one sole person to dislike this video?! lol
@pushpapush3984
@pushpapush3984 4 жыл бұрын
👌👍🤘
@timtuthill4915
@timtuthill4915 4 жыл бұрын
Altisamo,,, scratchy up high. Others OK
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