Me vs Elitist Arch Linux fanboy.

[@RazvanDinculescu]

Wonderfull ... I really can't stop watching all your videos. I should have found you channel earlier! I think you have the soundest logic of them all. Keep up the good work!

[@bobpeters61]

Thank you. It's that toxic mentality within the Linux Community writ large that kept me from doing more than toying around with usually Ubuntu on a dual boot for several years before finally having accumulated enough knowledge to look up stuff for myself. Still it wasn't until I found some really intrusive Microsoft stuff that I decided that Windows had devolved into malware and took the plunge. By that point, I was able to look up for myself what I needed to learn and have since moved on to Arch. Still following a philosophy of learning just what I need to in order to do what I want to. So now even though I have a custom Arch install utilizing a separate high-capacity HDD for my home folder on my home build tower and a heavily customized Debian system on my emergency/roadtrip laptop, both humming along just the way I want them to, I still don't know how to dig up those precious log files the help forum folks want.

[@knoxduder]

Brother… you have an uncanny way of seeing things for how they really are. I wish the masses of nerds could get their heads out of their arses and see this.

[@Darryl_Frost]

he does have a really bad attitude, as an electronics and computer tech I cant imagine being able to do my job with his attitude. You can never presume they know or even care about the things you are expert in. I agree with you Kent, the Linux community has been this way forever too.

[@act.13.41]

How one responds to questions is a huge deal. I worked in I.T. and had to help users with their problems. If I made another employee feel uncomfortable, I would have been called to the boss's office and fired. Volunteers have to be held to the same standard. The Arch forums are there to help users. Some of the people coming to you with a problem are already experts. Some of them are newbies. All of them have to be treated fairly.

[@ArniesTech]

Yepp. Those who cannot contain their elitism, should not post answers in help threads. 🙏

[@jasonthirded]

Yea, Ignoring the question asked on a forum is much better than going in and bullying the person that asked it

[@theredspoon1763]

I just love the idea of how the whole Arch community will be getting bombarded by „stupid“ questions of SteamOS users in the near future. I am convinced that the day of the Linux gaming desktop will come and all those toxic, unhelpful mfers will be loosing their shit over the way their wet dream came true 😂

[@npaladin2000]

I keep telling people over and over that people don't have to learn to be sysadmins to use Linux, and most people don't WANT to learn to be sysadmins. But too many Linux people out there are so consumed with their own BTW-ness that they assume everyone wants to be like them and should be like them. They need to get over it.

[@bobpeters61]

Yeah. I've even seen it as a community thinking that only people who program computers at a professional level should be able to use computers. Which I'm quick to point out would rob computer technology of all purpose and reason to even exist because computers are most useful for jobs that other people are doing and that computer programmers generally don't know how to do.

[@McSquiddington]

Tech, in general, is a non-obvious field - for a lot of people. Add to that the fact that Linux is perceived as the "cheaper" OS you can use to revive Grandma's aging beige tower PC and, well, you end up with a chunk of the user base that rightfully demands patience and empathy. Like it or not, no matter if you're referring to Windows, MacOS, ChromeOS, Linux - any OS whatsoever - some people will encounter blocks or learning-related issues and are in situations where fostering self-help is a waste of time. I have a Windows-related saying that still works quite well with Linux: if your response, when Grandpa tells you that something is wrong with their PC, is to ask if they've defragmented their old plate drive or checked their Task Scheduler, then you're not entirely fit for working in IT. Some people need nothing more than a fix from you and will *never* have brainpower to spare in order to learn their OS of choice. It happens with cars, it happens with ready-made furniture, it happens with electrical networks - and it obviously happens with computers. And that's fine. Like I said in another comment, you know your OS is mature when anyone can complete basic maintenance tasks entirely within a GUI. And like it or not, the very nature of Linux stunts its growth. It's by design according to some, and others see it as a major flaw. I'm of the mind that it really wouldn't kill anyone to design a system-configuration workflow that does not, in fact, require you to open a document in Nano or Vim or what have you. It really wouldn't kill Linux as a project, if a distro pushed convenience even further than Linux Mint does. Most people barely touch PowerShell in Windows, and most Mac users flat-out ignore that they have their own Terminal emulator. So why does Linux have to rely on it so much?

[@MFTAQ]

All should be treated fairly no matter how many times the question is asked.

[@Chris-fx5sw]

It may be a little older here, but it has lost none of its topicality. What I don't understand is the following: I go to a forum or similar and read a question that annoys me or that I find too stupid, why do I answer it? If that's the case, I click on another topic and let someone else answer it or find another hobby. It doesn't make it any better if I then reply just to tell the user that he is an idiot. It also doesn't help either party in any way. It just doesn't make sense. I can't get my head around that.

[@stranded_mariner7695]

When somebody asks me a question about Linux, instead of saying something like "you dumb ass, don't you know anything about Linux", I'm very happy they're showing interest and try to answer any question I can, or help in anyway I can, I'm like a kid in a candy store when somebody shows interest and asks me about Linux.

[@knoxduder]

Helping people with our wanting a return is more rewarding than expecting a return. These concepts are being lost in our societies. The key to the treasure is the treasure.

[@cloakofshadow1]

This is partly why I have always been put off running vanilla Arch or even Endeavour. Because my first question would be "how do I maintain it? When do I update? How do I know if I SHOULD update?" and of course, that's the very last question people want to answer. VERY VERY FEW Distros put the user in charge of that. 95% of distros will let you know very clearly "you should probably update whenever there's a notification, we've checked it for you, it's okay." and of course, Arch/Gentoo don't do that. There MIGHT BE a forum post somewhere that says "hey, X package breaks Y, don't update it.", but there's no clear indication of that ANYWHERE in Arch. Endeavour might have tools for that, I don't know, but last time I checked I was a bit put off by the insulation of "wellllll we don't really like to do too overboad on handholding, you should probably know what you're doing. We have a forum." Okay, but am I supposed to check the forum EVERY TIME a package is flagged for updating? I could go on and on. I appreciate your take so m uch, because it's one of the main frustrations I have with this shit. An OS that thrives on personal learning, but ignores actually teaching the basics clearly or at all. An Arch Wiki page doesn't subsitute for normal, basic teaching.

[@KentsTechWorld]

I am working on a script that can be used to maintain arch in a more simple way, and do the things that is needed for having a good running system, so give me a few weeks, and you will see a video about it. I am a bit busy so have a look out for it.

[@cloakofshadow1]

@@KentsTechWorld great stuff man, appreciate it a lot.

[@EasyGameEh]

two times i asked for help (one on kde forum and one on fedora forum) the responces were underwhelming at best. for kde the only answer i got was how and why i should dance around the issue (the way it was obvious to me. not what i asked). for fedora it was alot of unnecessary and irrelevant back-and-forth about some nuances of my situation, when in fact it was obvious from the start that the thing i tried to do couldn't and wouldn't work and the proper way to solve my problem was once again much easier and once again obvious, though in the end i had to come up with it myself. so my take away from these two situations is people "out there" either are unwilling to help or can't do that, but will waste your and their time for some weird reason. that's ofcourse if you are lucky to not get berated for your stupidity right away.

[@nomisunrider7851]

I'm planning to start the FOTS Foundation. It seems there is a need for Free and Open Tech Support.

[@markcharter8198]

Your absolutely right !!! Great video. Brody doesn't even use arch, he uses Ubuntu that looks like arch .

[@johnrieley1404]

You are correct, but it takes maturity, and as you say, empathy, which Brodie is working on. As you say, there are some people who ask but really do not want to learn.

[@BlizzGMX]

I like linux a lot, but I can't stand a lot of linux users. I like your video haha. Well done.

[@KentsTechWorld]

thanks a lot.

[@somegeezer4058]

Thinking about the guy you're discussing in this video: I've never been able to watch his content due to his voice literally having no presence below 8khz.

[@Muriz26]

Kent's Tech World: I use to work in a very famous Supermarket here in Jacksonville. I was taking out grocery for people helping them. One day a dude with a Mercedes that bought lots of food that I helped out, didn't give me a tip or anything and he does not have to. The very same day I helped someone with an average Toyota and had 3 kids gave me 10 dollars for helping him. The point that I am making is that people that possess something feel that others should posses that as well. I met Physicians that have money and always had money will never greet anyone and I have met physicians that ask every day how everyone is doing. I talked to one of them and they told me that they came from poor background and they worked very hard to become someone in life. Those Physicians know what obstacles they had to overcome to be where they at today so therefore they know the value. Those are the people that will help others and wont give up. Our friend here is knowledgeable about Linux and feels that everyone else should know the answers because he probably understands clear on the first time that someone explains to him. Other words he cannot understand or comprehend that others do not have his knowledge. Windows knowledgeable people have know clue how to operate Linux because all their carrier they played with Windows not Linux.

[@CRYPTiCEXiLE]

its that old school attitude "RTFM" attitude and its ignorant .... only stupid answers, asking a question is never a bad idea its showing you that you do want to know the answer and willing to learn. a good teacher will teach no matter what... a wise person will teach and be humble and also happy that what you teach is making the other person gain that extra knowledge and that should be the rewarding part on both.

[@overclucker]

A lot of people would rather ask someone than dig through a manual and it's probably for the same reason people are there to answer questions.

[@riboiman4005]

Meanwhile me who turns to fucking Microsoft Copilot to manage my Linux system with terminal commands and it working perfectly, therefore dodging forums entirely and saving me an unbelievable amount of time I know using Copilot on Linux may be immoral to some but I don't care, at least a robot can tell me answers quicker 😂

[@CRYPTiCEXiLE]

very good video,,, i know a lot about linux and i love to teach everyone cause i want them to learn just like i did when i first started i didnt had the helping hand back in the late 90s etc and whatever i know i will help anybody as best that i can i also can learn new stuff cause we are all learning creatures and we learn from each other. like i said always spread the knowledge cause u want to ,... not cause u want rewards back or whatever it is... i agree with you and this guy making me angry too.

[@ArniesTech]

Oh I am so gonna make more Videos about elitist fanboys. Go, Kent. Expose them all 💪😎

[@MakeLinuxSimple]

Hands down oppose idiocracy and you are elitist now. I've been on arch forums people are strict but not rude. If you can't use google to make research why you even use linux in a first place. If googling something is to difficult for one then the linux is a sorcery. Act like spoil brat you will be treat as such. We live in the era of youtube forums and google. Yet is to hard for some to gather and comprehend a basic information's. Same group of people forge a umbrela term "Elitists". Elitists --> translation im a lazy ass who does nothing to explain or provide, any valuable info on what my problem is, but in that very moment i need help, Im also a person who can't read. So help me or else. In my language we say spierdalaj in those type of situations

[@KentsTechWorld]

Get your ass in my discord lol. i am cutting down on the time i spend on youtube comments, it's nothing but angry fanboys yelling like someone that got their candy stolen :D

[@Mr7263255]

I agree with you ! Been using linux about 4 years and this has been the biggest problem I have had.

[@user-db2uj9vc7s]

Just Quit and bully linux users together with US lol

[@5I6]

2:46 here's the problem, most people are not acting stupid they are for real want an actual answer for the actual problem that they are not able to solve and people don't take them seriously A T A L L.

[@Kwales66]

Well said.

[@tysonthompkins5277]

What grown man has doll collection?

[@joaomachado9105]

really like Brodie but I'm 100% with you on this one, I use arch btw ;)

[@39zack]

Word!

[@CRYPTiCEXiLE]

if you are knowledge of linux OS be a mentor and teach the good word and also always willing to help no matter how simple the answer is. Arch Linux "K.I.S.S." right keep it simple stupid .... meaning even if its a simple question keep it simple and answer it.

[@74Bagas]

Agreed, i love arch also.

[@SifatUllah-12]

This is when you're young, ignorant and elitist VS when you actually grow mature. Both have knowledge about linux, but one is immature and arrogant, and the other one has grown up and mature.

[@WindowsHelpGuy2015]

Thumbs up from me :Long Live Kent :)

[@AdalbertoMaggioJunior]

I respectfully disagree on some of your points. Every time you buy or use something there’s always a manual. Same with distributions or forum rules. There is even how to documentation written. To sign up to a forum of a distro you generally have to click that you have read the specific guidelines of how to interact with people there. This is true of Facebook groups too. Your analogy with mechanics is flawed because you are being paid. Voluntary distributions are not the same. A person must know how to use Google and conform to the forum or Facebook group rules. This is so that the same question doesn’t get asked ten thousand times losing everyone’s time because someone doesn’t use the search bar in a forum or Facebook group. You are entitled to answers with no prior research or manners and even remote fixing if you are paying for support. Like Red Hat, Windows or Mac.

[@kurokoshirai5402]

I don't think that's an excuse to be hostile to someone who is asking for help, just point them in the right direction by giving them a link to the arch wiki, how to look up things on google or just don't help them lol. Most people are not technical and if you work in IT it will surprise you how much people don't know about technology.

[@AdalbertoMaggioJunior]

@@kurokoshirai5402 I’m not saying people should be hostile. I’m clarifying that people get hostile not because of how stupid a question is, or how ignorant a person is, but because of a lack of due diligence and lack of manners. Take Debian for example. If you downloaded it, the link to the “how to” is right there next to the download link and there are various videos on KZbin teaching how to install, in the event that you bought a DVD or a flash drive. On the Facebook group or forum, there are pinned links to the “How to” and if you use the search bar there’s even two or three questions pointing to the pinned links and related explanations. To enter the Facebook group or Forum and post, you have to agree that you know that the pinned links are there and that you’ll use the search bar for questions. After all that, somebody asks: “I just downloaded Debian, how do I Install it?” This is not ignorance, this is laziness and lack of manners. They wanna save their time at everyone else’s expense and did not even took the time to read the forum or group rules. You can further see the entitlement by how the question was phrased. Posts with manners almost always get a positive response. Like: “Thanks for joining the group. I’m a Linux newbie and I read the “how to” but I cannot understand if it’s better to install LVM or not in my desktop because the explanation on this text is not clear for me (insert text). Any pointers, links or explanations would be appreciated. Thanks” See the difference? The first example was entitlement and rudeness. The second one is Ignorance. Almost nobody gets irritated because the person asking is ignorant. People get irritated because the person asking is impolite, entitled or lazy.

[@Perry....]

"Keep it simple stupid" it's their words bud. Don't change the fucking script when you didn't write it.

[@kurokoshirai5402]

@@AdalbertoMaggioJunior yeah I definitely get that certain people can be rude when asking questions in forums as well, but I think that the best course of action is just to not respond to them. Responding to them in a negative way will just make them complain about the forums being toxic.

[@AdalbertoMaggioJunior]

@@kurokoshirai5402 I get it, I never told someone to RTFM after all. Best not to spend energy replying if you think it’s not worth answering it seriously. You’re right. That is my personal policy BTW. Videos like this rub me the wrong way because I don’t think googling something, abiding by forum rules and being polite when asking are unreasonable requirements since Forums have been working like this since the 90’s….not just IT ones, it’s universal. It gives the impression that it is only the fault of the RTFM crowd. That elitist RTFM pricks go off on innocent ignorant questioners for no reason at all..just for the fun of it. While that’s rarely the case. Most of the time it’s because of basic netiquette…or the questioners being pricks themselves

[@jz2187]

Imagine googling 'gaming linux not working' to try to find a solution if you don't have experience with linux, lol

[@itsaperfectdork]

The title of the 10 commanments on how to be a good linux citizen. Titles like that make me want to say heck with linux cause of douces like that guy. Glad folks like kent exist.

[@fluca1978]

nah, you are getting it wrong, accotding to me. if your car has a problem, you need to know where to ask for help: a mechanic and not a plumber. if your glasses are not going up, you are at least reading the operating manual before going out to look for professional support. you cannot assume there is a mentor awaiting for every insane question, you have to do your homework. and in fact studwnts have books to study, not a 24x7 professor. most notably: people answering questions are doing in their free time. time they took away from hobbies, family and friends. they don't want to answer the same qiestion over and over, and it is for that reason there are tutorials, mamuals, videos and stuff like that. be polite if you want a polite answer: don't abise other people free time. or get a pay support and ask even how to tell left from right, they will answer you with a shiny smile.

[@KentsTechWorld]

you missing the point more then i am missing the healthy food when shopping

[@rockdie9522]

the arch forums are fine, what you call toxic is a way for users to evolve and ask better questions and not be help vampires. Especially about the arch/gentoo, a user went into the process of installing Arch, while it is mentioned on the home page that it's not user friendly, it's more advanced, etc. and you don't bother to read further? No, that doesn't make any sense, you're a Help Vampire who want to effortlessly use something that is considered "cool".

[@KentsTechWorld]

SURE!!!!!!

[@ricardosansone6483]

being a "help vampire" is a great way to learn the system tho

[@jasonthirded]

If you want some real help pay someone to do it. I don't get it why you would expect professional expert support for free in the forums. If you want someone to analyze your whole system and tell you where you fuck up go buy a redhat, suse or windows license. Question like why is my kde crashing can only be answered by someone who had the same problem, solved it himself and then took time out of his life to explain what went wrong on a forum which I guess is not that common. I've never gotten a good answer from forms but when I had a problem with prusa printer the support team of prusa managed to find it really easily while being nice and helpful as to what when wrong and even willingly answered all my questions about what will happen if I do this or that. The difference is I bought a prusa for that. Payed extra because it's my first 3d printer and want a payed professional to help me if I can't solve something on my own

[@KentsTechWorld]

no one expect everyone to drop anything and help them lol. They ask if someone have time or could help them, if you don't want to or feel it's to easy for you or you to smart, then don't help them and let others do it. It's the same as of a friend or a random person at work asked you to help them with something, you either do it or not. Has nothing to do with pro help :D Welcome as a toxic Linux user :D

[@alessandrodarcangeli9005]

@@KentsTechWorld i had the same answers in fedora forum some time ago: if you want help pay to red hat...linux community its really bad

[@DashieTM]

I also have to disagree here. The people over at arch made a distro for people who like to "rtfm". That's why they created the arch wiki. So if you are to use that distro, you need to realize that there is an expectation for you to read up on things on your own. This is made clear with that team. However, i do agree with you when it comes to distros that portray themselves as user friendly. Here I would expect to be able to ask even the simplest questions as that is what a someone might do, without the need to read up on it themselves. The only problem with that is the fact that people aren't paid to solve questions, and therefore it will not always be answered perfectly. In the end I have 2 points that I think we can all take away from this. 1. Always try to be respectful. This means when someone asks something that has nothing to do with your distro, or your app, or your whatever, don't insult them, just respectfully tell them that this is an issue with something else. Or for the arch example, respectfully direct them to the arch wiki. 2. Don't buy a sports car when you want to fit 6 people in it. Aka if you expect for things to just work, and to get help from people in a forum without needing to read manuals, use distros that are made for this. This doesn't mean you are dumb, or lazy or whatever. It also doesn't mean that "I am superior", there is no superiority in me liking to be nerdy, it's what I like to do. What it does mean is that a certain distro is made for you and some are not. I think it is fair to say that people should use software that suit their need.

[@Perry....]

"Keep it simple stupid" their words. Don't flip the script bud.

[@saumitit944]

Love that you deleted my comment :)

[@KentsTechWorld]

Nope i have not seen another comment from you, not even in the spam folder(been off reading comments for over a day), so either you said something youtube did not like, or i have to look at the spam folder again lol. But i love that you think i did

[@henryofskalitz2228]

Arch is good but nixos is better