MEASURING PINION ANGLE EXPLAINED.

I hope this video helps and doesn't further confusion.
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INSTAGRAM @puddinsfabshop

[@dannywheeler7464]

This is the best explanation I’ve yet to see, thank you so much for making this video for the average guy to understand.

[@PuddinsFabShop]

Glad it helped! I struggled explaining it.

[@ThinBlueLineVideos]

This was by far the best explanation i've seen on KZbin. Thank you

[@PuddinsFabShop]

I’m glad it helped. I felt I stumbled.

[@ThinBlueLineVideos]

@@PuddinsFabShop nope you were great. I've been nothing but confused until your video. Good work

[@PuddinsFabShop]

Awesome!

[@kimmills4143]

Thanks for the explanation, I've never had it explained like that before. Makes a lot more sense now!

[@joell439]

👍👍👍 ...... I over think things all the time. Thanks for the lesson. Sweet drawing ✍️!

[@PuddinsFabShop]

Thank you 😂😂

[@lonniepitcock3440]

I’m glad you explained it with drawings and the tool. The good advise of only looking from 1 side is helpful as well.

[@peerplaut]

I hope you teach Algebra for your day job! A most excellent video. If my Algebra teacher used these diagrams I would have done much better in math. ;)

[@PuddinsFabShop]

I’m glad it helped.

[@Route5Garage_5.0tbrd88]

Puddin I’ve been really enjoying all of your videos. But I’ve had a driveline vibration in my fox body Tbird for YEARS. I have adjustable upper control arms and have tried measuring and adjusting them several times. I found this video of yours (searched pinion angle and thought “well heck there’s ole Puddin tang”) and it finally made sense! No vibration any more. Now I can haul butt and go a buck twenty if I wanted to!

[@tomsawyer5576]

Wow you made that a lot harder than it needs to be. When setting the u-joint working angle correctly all you need is the centerline of the crank and centerline of the pinion set at the same angle in reference to level i.e. the centerlines only need be parallel each other. Then install your driveshaft and check if the u-joint deflection is with the manufactures specs. Finally check u-joint phasing.

[@PuddinsFabShop]

You should make a video and upload it lol

[@pj3635]

What about a 2 piece shaft with a hanger bearing?

[@timdontwannasay5889]

Thank you good sir! I'm in the middle of setting my truck up now!

[@PuddinsFabShop]

Good timing!

[@terrykelley3913]

Thanks this clearly showed me the proper way to think about the angles.

[@PuddinsFabShop]

Glad it helped!

[@jeffj1324]

Great info. I'll be watching this video again and again. Cheers!

[@PuddinsFabShop]

Hope it helped!

[@Voongi]

👍 Very cool, nice lesson.

[@PuddinsFabShop]

👊🏻👊🏻

[@77supervan79]

Good explanation, really all you need to know to get by. Just a couple key points I wanna add as I did a bunch of research on this subject for my build and I just wanna share. I hope I'm not over stepping here. I don't wanna be a know it all because I certainly don't know it all. I tend to overthink things myself but to put it simply, the output shaft of the transmission should be at the same angle as the pinion (within a certain tolerance) this way they cancel each other out, otherwise you get a pulsation which can be quite violent depending. The other key point is that you always have a negative pinion to drive line working angle, you never want the rear end setup with positive pinion angle. This is when the yoke of the rear end is tilted upward more than the driveshaft (going back to front). Under load that positive angle will increase as the pinion nose raises under torque and could go far enough to bind and break components (especially with leaf springs, angle can change as much as 7 deg). The pinion is always going to lift under load so you want negative working angle so that when the pinion lifts it comes closer to a zero angle instead of increasing. This was likely more than you wanted to get into I just thought it might help someone who may not know these important factors. You may have seen it already but here is a link to a video that really demonstrates how the front and rear angles cancel each other out kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5XOZHWMebt7p5Y. Again, love the videos and I really hope I am not over stepping here.

[@PuddinsFabShop]

Not over stepping anything to help people out.

[@77supervan79]

@@PuddinsFabShop Right on man, glad you feel that way. Keep kickin' ass, we love the videos.

[@HeadFlowInc]

I agree with your logic for measuring. However it is very important to differentiate between a leaf spring vehicle and a 4 link type suspension due to the difference in Pinion Rise or Pinion Climbing under heavy load. Thanks for sharing please clarify the differences between the applications if anyone asks. JD

[@PuddinsFabShop]

Good rule for anything is figure out the range of travel your suspension will see and set it at half travel of the suspension.

[@Chevelle602]

Best explanation I've seen on KZbin and I've seen them all

[@killerwollf]

Let me see if I understand, you mean that in a 4links I have my transmission in 3 degree ok? and my axle/pinion should I put it at 1 or 1.5 degrees to compensate for the weight under load when it's loaded? Or should I leave the transmission at 3 degrees and the axle at 3 degrees too?

[@shanewright6958]

Great job and Another great video 👍👍👍👍🇨🇱

[@PuddinsFabShop]

Thanks shane

[@timadams1185]

Great explanation!

[@adamb8485]

Do you have a lesson for a 2 shaft? Lol love the lesson! Best explanation out there!

[@PuddinsFabShop]

I do not. Maybe one day

[@chirt1453]

Good job explaining!

[@leepascual9457]

Nicely put in plain English thanks

[@matthewparise5279]

Does the transmission and rear axle have to be within a half a degree or a degree of each other if I'm using a drive shaft with cardans at each end

[@87jstep]

Good with the drawings.

[@Camaro-1969]

Great video and easy to understand. I’m getting ready to set my pinion angle soon. My car is using a Ridetech 4 link. Ridetech instruction says to set the rear pinion to 3 degrees. That being said, do I go off your way and adjust my crank & driveshaft accordingly to work with a 3 degree rear pinion? Or it doesn’t matter on the rear degree as long as everything is in working angles by doing the math like in this video?

[@PuddinsFabShop]

If you’re on air ride you need to set the rear to half travel of the four link. At half travel you can set the working angles to whatever you desire like in this video.

[@jevans4379]

great explanation

[@Mark-ow6tw]

Thank you Professor Puddin'...the fog is gone.

[@PuddinsFabShop]

That’s being nice! Lol

[@JamesDavis-to1hn]

Thanks for sharing. I learned a lot.

[@PuddinsFabShop]

Glad it helped.

[@glenhynes3593]

Simple and straightforward

[@geriatricginger]

Great explanation, brother.

[@steveyackel4637]

Really informative

[@moisty254]

Thanks Mister this helped out heaps as I am completely new to the world of pinion angles. Do slightly bigger wheels cause pinion angles to go out?

[@PuddinsFabShop]

Thanks! Changing wheels shouldn’t change opinion assuming you’re not changing the suspension to accommodate the wheels.

[@JDWard-Jeepster]

It's down hill because the yoke is higher then the center of the rear axles axleshaft.

[@PuddinsFabShop]

When you’re dealing sometimes with 1degree and it’s under the vehicle it’s hard to tell. Especially if people are on grass etc. you’re correct sir.

[@ChauncyFatsack]

Your the Best Puddin!

[@rolfsandstrom8437]

I am from Sweden.Today I get this after many times at youtube 10 tumbs up

[@PuddinsFabShop]

Awesome!!

[@b00sted_SS]

@10:54 you say “half travel”, are you meaning ride height? Or are the two different things?

[@paullemon6542]

Thanks for your advice

[@chescabler2659]

Good work bud

[@scottmartin6955]

Thanks for that

[@PuddinsFabShop]

No problem!

[@ImpalamansGarage]

Just what I needed !

[@gtmotorsports937]

Great video as always. I’m guessing with a two piece shaft you don’t worry about the first shaft?

[@PuddinsFabShop]

No you still have to worry about it because they have working angles as well. The carrier bearing makes the second u joint in a fixed position like the first u joint in a normal drive shaft set up. So you want to try and get the working angles of the first two the same since they pretty well stay in the same spot and then try tow get the working angles of the 2nd and third u joint to match.

[@gtmotorsports937]

Puddin's Fab Shop thanks for the reply! It’s been forever since I built something with multiple drive shafts. Like you I over think things from time to time. I’m currently watching your 4 link video! Keep up the good work.

[@HFG]

Great info!

[@PuddinsFabShop]

👊🏻

[@Limeayy]

Really appreciate your explaination.

[@mynascarfan]

Great Video, I have an 95 Ram Ext cab. I installed a DJM 4/6 drop that has adjustable pinion at the rear end which is great but can't get the vibration out. I removed the factory 2 piece shaft and had a custom 1 piece made. I have the same problem as you on the transmission side with the angle but being a little worse at 5.5 degrees. How thick of a shim did you use to get it to 4 degrees and did the angle at 4 degrees work with your new driveshaft with any vibration?

[@PuddinsFabShop]

So after this video I ended up boxing the frame when I had the body off. During that I ended up raising it some if I remember right to 4 degrees. I believe I then shimmed it up to 3 degrees. I think it took about 3/8ths of an inch to get it from 4 to 3 but don’t quote me on that because I don’t remember for sure. The drive shaft is running down at 2 degrees. So set the rear at 3 also and we having working angles of 1 degree. It’s on the road now and no issues. She’s smmmoootttthhhhh. Remember the working angles matching and being under 3 is what’s really important.

[@mynascarfan]

@@PuddinsFabShop Thanks I appreciate the help.

[@mynascarfan]

@@PuddinsFabShop I took some measurements today and the transmission is at 5 degrees. The center of the driveshaft at 0 degrees. The rear end is at 3 degrees. I’m thinking I will have to first try to raise the transmission before I can do anything, correct?

[@Alfie289KCode]

Great info

[@PuddinsFabShop]

👊🏻👊🏻

[@JDWard-Jeepster]

Curious if your transmission points down hill 3 degrees and your rear axle pinion also is 3 degrees down hill what difference does it make what degrees your driveshaft is? The 3 degrees at both ends would cancel each other out and be in the same plane wouldn't they? According to spicer 3 degrees is recommended maximum operating angle.

[@PuddinsFabShop]

Correct. Operating angle is the difference between the transmission and drive shaft or rearend and drive shaft. So what your saying is right you can make your rearend match your transmission. And say they are both down hill at 3degree. If your drive shaft is down hill at 7 degree and you do the math you now have to operating angles of 4 degrees and you have to adjust accordingly because that’s not 3 degrees or less like recommend. I aim for 1-1.5 operating angles myself.

[@kwikslvr73]

mmmm....looks like I better recheck the shoebox! great video

[@PuddinsFabShop]

Hope it helps!

[@joshsbluecollarbuildsdesig7427]

What’s a good angle for my LS motor to be at in my 62 c10? Reason I ask, I order some LS motor mounts and there the weld in taps!! Lol. So what’s a good angle to start with, so everything lines up and runs good?

[@PuddinsFabShop]

Most people say as a rule of thumb 3 degrees down.

[@joshsbluecollarbuildsdesig7427]

Puddin's Fab Shop, thanks man. And follow that all the way to the rear axle?

[@PuddinsFabShop]

Set the rear at 3 as well to match the motor/ trans. If they are both matching you can install the driveshaft and measure it’s angle. Subtract them and you’ll know the working angle of each u joint. You want the working angle to be less then 3.

[@joshsbluecollarbuildsdesig7427]

Ok so, the motor degree is +\-? And the rear is +\- 3 degrees? And thanks for taking the time and telling me this because most people don’t even do this stuff so thanks Man.

[@wyatttourtillotte]

Next time think about the angle of your foot before you land on it. 😂. Rig is looking great! Very helpful!

[@PuddinsFabShop]

I need to make a video showing that.

[@wyatttourtillotte]

Puddin's Fab Shop lol might as well since people are going to ask what happened. Pain of others always makes for a good laugh. Might bump up your views too.

[@mechanicmike1236]

I was never good at geometry, so this makes it a little easier to understand. Would you do a frame swap or work with the original frame, I’m torn, want to make my 54 f250 more modern day but don’t know if putting it on my 03’ yukon chassis is the right move. I really like the idea but not sure I want to under take a project that big

[@PuddinsFabShop]

The first two things I’d consider is 1. Does it fit the chassis. Width, wheel base, and you want to look at where the rear of the Yukon frame sweeps up and see if there’s enough room for everything. These are things I worry about because I’m going low when I build stuff. Something that’s staying up in the air or more of a lifted look would still need to check these but they probably aren’t as critical. 2. Do you have the means to do it. What I mean by that it’s to be putting the body on and off to make it work. I can pull of doing a truck in my shop because the bed, cab, and front clip can be handled separate. The travelall was going to be two heavy and hard for me to control with what I have on hand which is why I went the way I did and didn’t even consider frame swapping it.

[@jeffjoyce1607]

Are the two yokes (trans and diff) ever anything other than the same number? I have always heard and read they should be equal for standard u-joints. Another way to say it is “on the same plane”. 0 and 0, 3 and 3, 5 and 5, etc. I’m not certain that the driveshaft angle really matters unless it’s so extreme it would bind the joint.

[@PuddinsFabShop]

They will be but a small number. The trans side is fixed with it being mounted and the rearend Travelalls up and down. Stuff like the suspension setup such as leaf springs or link bars will affect how much it rolls. Even further lengths of link bars affect how much it rolls. That’s we’re setting it at half travel comes into play. At half travel it’s perfect so if it ever goes below or above that it’s never an extreme amount because it’s perfect at half travel splitting the difference. The drive shaft angle don’t matter. It’s the working angles. The difference between a yoke angle and drive shaft angle. For example. My Travelall before shimming the trans up, the trans was running down hill 5 degrees. Well that means the drive shaft could be running down at 8 degrees and it would still be acceptable to most because it would still have a 3 degree working angle.

[@williamaguiar14]

Why have half the travel ? And not fully compressed

[@Recycledhooligan]

Seems like you really know your stuff.

[@59tower]

tha's what my daddy used to tell me, "sitting on your ass won't things done" ....I find your experience helpfull in my project, i'm working on my 1977 amc gremlin, but also have a 1965 nova SS, all need a lot of work, but are you going to rewire the travelall? that is a subject I want to do on my gremlin specially since i'll be running a 5.3 LS with it's factory stock engine control management.

[@PuddinsFabShop]

My friend is re working the factory harness. He wanted practice for his project. I’ll be doing all the other wiring.

[@robertmccartney8557]

Where did you get your 4 link? What did it cost? Thanks

[@PuddinsFabShop]

Switch suspension. $400 ish. I can’t remember right off top

[@Alfie289KCode]

Could you explain that again.......

[@PuddinsFabShop]

I could and better now probably!

[@paintgunexpress1949]

SMASH SMASH SMASH THAT THUMBS UP👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍WHOOOO.....😎👊

[@paintgunexpress1949]

Dang Good. Very well explanined..... Keep Busting ass.....Much respect....