Measuring Power Output with the TinySA Ultra

In this video, I will show how to measure the power output of an HT Ham Radio in both dBm and Watts using the Tiny SA Ultra.
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Links to products in the video:
TinySA Ultra AURSINC: www.amazon.com/dp/B0BMPSSFTK/...
TinySA: amz.run/5gpR
10w 40dB Attenuator: amz.run/5h5J
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[@nateitkin8279]

Great video. Thanks for posting it. It's just amazing what we can now buy for around $100. When I worked in aerospace, it wasn't uncommon to spend $50k on a spectrum analyzer. Admittedly, those units were more capable but not 500 times more capable.

[@TheSmokinApe]

Hey Nate, I'd agree... these small affordable components are game changers for hobbyists 👍

[@roberthopkins8089]

U get insertion loss with an attenuator... Glad we got that bit right

[@K5QBF]

As always thanks for the lesson Professor.

[@TheSmokinApe]

Thanks Shane!

[@Tump2010]

Great video Ape

[@TheSmokinApe]

Howdy Thump! I'm always impressed with these things...

[@microflite]

Nicely explained!

[@TheSmokinApe]

Thanks Micro 👍

[@vasilatosianis4208]

thank you great to know !

[@TheSmokinApe]

Thanks for watching 👍

[@KS0JD]

I like you videos on driving the Nano VNA and the Tiny SA. Both instruments provide a lot more information for the ham with a very low cost of entry to the information. 73

[@TheSmokinApe]

Agreed, they are fantastic resources for hams. I'm glad you like the videos Jeff 👍

[@wushock92]

Nicely done, Professor. Even I understood it. 😆

[@TheSmokinApe]

Thanks! 😃

[@MikeN2MAK]

Thanks, I didn’t know that could be done with the Tiny SA.

[@TheSmokinApe]

It's the Swiss army knife of RF 👍

[@electronicatutorial]

Also before you connect it to the port is good to check with a multimeter if there is any DC present as most RF analyzers donot tolerate any DC, then you can use a DC block.

[@TheSmokinApe]

Great point, thanks!

[@KK6USYHamRadioAdventures]

The professor strikes again , explained for everyone to understand thanks

[@TheSmokinApe]

Thanks for checking it out Chuck 👍

[@crackerwood661]

cool!

[@TheSmokinApe]

Thanks CW

[@DonzLockz]

Thanks Mr Tech Ape. Db? does my head in with different types etc. I'll need to checkout that site.🍻👍

[@TheSmokinApe]

Haha, thanks for watching Don!

[@FEPLabsRadio]

Good job, son!

[@TheSmokinApe]

Thanks Bubba 👍

[@Rafael_Reali]

Ohhhhh Thanks :) :) :)

[@TheSmokinApe]

Thanks for watching Rafael 👍

[@don_n5skt]

Oh cool, I can measure the output of the Mercury IIIs ;) Seriously though, I do have a tap on the Mercury that attenuates the signal by 60dbm for input into the radio's receiver

[@TheSmokinApe]

You need to sweep that thang, you might be riding dirty...

[@don_n5skt]

@@TheSmokinApe Nah, I am running more Pure Signal on the Mercury. No IMDs at all.

[@richardphillips2405]

Great video. I was wondering if you could use the Tiny SA Ultra to measure rf exposure in the shack.

[@TheSmokinApe]

You can use it to measure RF with the supplied antenna 👍

[@johnbauman4005]

Hi Ape! Ok, have the Tiny SA ultra and attenuators in my cart. What other accessories do you recommend for the SA Ultra, not just for this project, but in general? Any coax adaptors, tools or short cables, etc? Does the PC software come with it or do I have to order separately? Is the combination of the 40 + 10 attenuators enough to allow hook up to a 100W transceiver or should I get a 20 - 30 db attenuator instead of the 10? Appreciate the teaching as always! ATB! John

[@TheSmokinApe]

The TinySA comes with two short coax cables so you should be good there, you might want to look at adapters for SMA to BNC / PL-259 depending on what you use. Also, for 100w I would get a 100w 50db attenuator for that, they often have N-Type connectors for you might need additional adapters. Remember that attenuators have a power rating, to a 10w 50db attenuator won't work with 100w output. Also, if you are pushing 100w I would use the 50db and a second 10 or 20db attenuator just to be safe 👍

[@johnbauman4005]

@@TheSmokinApe Got it! Software for pc? Thanks, j

[@jcvee15]

Thanks for a great video. Since the 5 watts is approximately 37 dBm, if those 5 watts are attenuated with the 40 dB attenuator, is the input of the Tiny SA being presented with -3 dBm, or about a half mW (37-40=-3)? I'm just trying to wrap my head around dBs and dBm and how they work together. Thanks again and 73.

[@TheSmokinApe]

100% correct 👍

[@anxanywhere]

I'm sure you have heard this before, but it's never too much to say it again: thank you for the content you been producing, they are very helpful to so many people including myself. Question... somehow related with this vide: In maybe 1 or 2 video where you collaborate with other YT'bers on TinySA matter, you recommend drawing a line at -16.02 dB(?). I believe this is related with second requirement for non-fundamental harmonics and spurious, that is an absolute level that should not be crossed. Where the -16.02 dB comes from?

[@TheSmokinApe]

Thanks, I’m glad the videos are helpful. Here is a link to the FCC rule: www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/97.307 -16.02 dBm is equal to the 25uW requirement 👍

[@anxanywhere]

@@TheSmokinApe Thank you so much, greetings from Portugal.

[@acestudioscouk-Ace-G0ACE]

A very well timed video for me Ape, thank-you. I'm just about to use my TSA Ultra for power tests for the first time. Do you have any brand recommendations or suppliers for attenuators please? I'm in the UK.

[@acestudioscouk-Ace-G0ACE]

@iowahank Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. I'm just about to run tests on the UV-K5 too! I think the world and his wife got sent a couple of samples. 🤣

[@TheSmokinApe]

Hank is correct, I'm using BCEN, I think that is the brand 👍

[@acestudioscouk-Ace-G0ACE]

@@TheSmokinApe Thanks for the info!

[@handyman7147]

Nice explanation. Are you using a usb isolator between the PC and TinySA.

[@TheSmokinApe]

I was not.

[@tzm1843]

If you already own a dummy load, could you use a Tee inline coupler to extract some RF for your power measurement?

[@TheSmokinApe]

👍

[@mcgrath16511]

DAD GUMIT!! now i have to have one of these! LOL! as always informative and easy for even an old guy like me gets it! 73 KD2ICI.

[@TheSmokinApe]

Thanks for watching McGrath 👍

[@mcgrath16511]

@@TheSmokinApe my tinysa came in the mail today.. LET THE MADNESS BEGIN!! I am sure I will be referring back to your videos more than once!

[@TheSmokinApe]

@@mcgrath16511 awesome man 👍

[@cyberyogicowindler2448]

Which safety distance is enough to prevent damage to a TinySA Ultra, when I measure with a small (likely directional) antenna? I don't own high power transmitters (professional HAM radio etc.), but pointing at an internal DECT or wifi antenna of home electronics (router, laptop etc.) to verify for Bio-EMC that it stays off (or at which frequency range it transmits) will be important. Possibly I may buy a small CB radio walkie-talkie. I also occasionally adjust TV modulators in old game consoles etc. The strongest emitting things I own is likely a plasma globe and a violet ray (mini tesla coil, may be among 1 and worst case 10W? RF) those I certainly should not approach too close with the antenna. Which distance is safe and will I strictly need attenuators?

[@TheSmokinApe]

The TinySA can't take a signal stronger than 6dBm

[@AccelHeight]

If I keep getting a lower watt reading than expected on multiple HT’s, does that mean my attenuator is off? Setting Ext again to -42 gets me to 5w. Seems odd to me.

[@TheSmokinApe]

What level is your attenuator?

[@NeurologiaFuncional]

Could you help me measure a TMS device output with the tinySA?

[@TheSmokinApe]

I have no idea what a TMS device is?

[@olegfir745]

Hello, can you tell me if the attenuator has an input port and an output port? How to properly connect an attenuator? Is there a difference?

[@TheSmokinApe]

Some say they do and some say they don’t, most come marked with an in and out 👍

[@batfalcononyoutube]

What is the max power that the TinySA can handle without damaging it, in W?

[@TheSmokinApe]

I believe it’s .0039811w

[@ploegmma]

You could use an RF Power Snitch if your not sure about your attenuation.

[@TheSmokinApe]

Yep, that would work 👍

[@tomyeast3438]

Thank you for the good tip. But why are you saying 2w for a 10w attenuator among the things you're saying at 1:56 ??

[@TheSmokinApe]

Hey TE, I was saying if you need to use attenuators of different values put the highest power rated one closer to the radio 👍

[@tomyeast3438]

@@TheSmokinApe ​ Aha! Thank you for pointing that out exactly as well! But I was going to ask you what you mean because you POINTED to a 10W attenuator in the video and said it was rated to 2W. Are you saying that if we use a 10W 40dB attenuator on the front end, we can hook a 2W 10dB attenuator on the back end?? I'm sorry I didn't understand you well..🥲

[@flyingskull]

On 20dbm 25mW transmitter show in pW always. What im doing wrong? Using 30db 2W attenuator

[@TheSmokinApe]

Hey FS, I think I need so more context 👍

[@TheSmokinApe]

Maybe check the “UNIT” setting in the menu 👍

[@mrtechie6810]

I have a 6GHz dummy load. How can I get a proportional sample into the TinySA from the transmission line to get an accurate power measurement?

[@TheSmokinApe]

Your going to need an RF Tap or Directional Coupler. I have a video on how to make the RF Tap 👍

[@mrtechie6810]

@@TheSmokinApe thanks. Till what frequency is your design good?

[@TheSmokinApe]

It’s for HF, I don’t think I tested past 30MHz

[@buzzsah]

Not knowing if I were going to jump back into ham, when I sold my comms store I let my Marconi. spectrum analyzer go with it. But, this tiny for the price looks like a good get me by unit.

[@TheSmokinApe]

Yeah, these are pretty useful and affordable. Thanks for watching Buzz 👍

[@brownj2]

can handle 6dB of what in? dBm, dBw, dBn?

[@TheSmokinApe]

dBm, but I would be careful with that.

[@LeeMcc_KI5YPR]

Count on me to knitpick. 😁 Power output is "dBm", an absolute number. 0 dBm = 1 mW (milli Watt) "dB" is relative. Sometimes you said dB when you meant dBm. Precision, son, precision! I know you can handle math better than @FEPLabs Radio!

[@TheSmokinApe]

C'mon Lee, I always count on you to knitpick. But you make a good point, thanks for the feedback, bro 👍

[@beboba2498]

I don't understand why do we see 37dbm instead of 40dbm ? Your radio produces 40dbm - 40dbm of attenuation + 40dbm for leveling = 40dbm

[@TheSmokinApe]

40dBm is 10w, this radio is 5w which is 37dBm. Hope that helps...

[@beboba2498]

@@TheSmokinApe My bad, thanks

[@TheSmokinApe]

@@beboba2498 no worries

[@JAKOB1977]

Hmm grrr.

[@TheSmokinApe]

Exactly.