MECHANICAL FILTERS: A German Engineer explains ONI

[@BierTier]

Find all my EXPLAINED videos right here: kzbin.info/aero/PL4O-dC6ogdu_4sdMUXl_dgpntfQgoGDQ8 Find my current Let's Play series right here: kzbin.info/aero/PL4O-dC6ogdu9sm_U0GC6tNy0JSAxIosBj

[@jonumine6250]

My only thing with the mechanical pump is the overflow, which would've loved to see here. >If the filtered line gets backed up, you could find the gas/liquid that you wanted filtered now going through the rest of the line, and not just small packages. >If the line itself is backed up, now both are backed up.

[@brockormond4131]

I put a value on the main line right before the sorting and set it to 90% max to prevent the packets from being too big and backing up the pipes as they reach the filters. That value is also useful to stop the flow when you are preparing a mech filter for a new element.

[@RothAnim]

​@@brockormond4131 Another option is to loop the section of pipe connected to the filters, then bridge the inputs onto that loop. Any leftover packets will loop around and get picked up on subsequent passes.

[@brockormond4131]

@@RothAnim I do use that when sorting the various forms of water for treatment to clean water. Still find that it can still backup and or clog without a release vent

[@RothAnim]

​@@brockormond4131 Yeah, priorities and use cases need to be taken into account for sure. If the pipe is 99% oxygen, and I want to make sure the Atmo suits get 100% oxygen, then clogged pipes are usually temporary and rarely affect either output noticeably. If I'm trying to clear out a geyser so it won't overpressure, then any clog means wasted resources. For mixed gas/mixed liquid sorting, I'll bridge the input onto a loop, then attach the filters to that loop, dumping the filtered matter into storage/infinite storage. That way any leftover packets get cycled around until fully processed without clogging the loop, and the pump stops if the loop is full.

[@burtjackson5261]

Nice. I saved this one for my oni Playlist for reference.

[@BierTier]

Cool, thanks!

[@roweboy1974]

Recently found your channel and instantly subscribed after the first video! I have learned so much about this game from watching and rewatching your videos! You definitely deserve a ton more subs and I hope you get them! I truly enjoy your play throughs and "explains" videos! I can't wait for more content!

[@BierTier]

I truly appreciate the kind words, thank you very much! I'm always happy when my videos help out a player, that's what it is about :) Unfortunately, there might not be much more content in 2023, since I'm in a bit of a difficult situation. But I'm planning on returning latest with the new year to deliver more content!

[@Coffeepotion]

Man so nice that you show how to prime the system! This was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the valve loop

[@BierTier]

Priming it is definitely the hardest part, had to be shown :)

[@gabrielneves6602]

Bier, where new video amn? Love to see your keys play series.

[@BierTier]

I'm in a bit of a difficult situation right now that prevents me from investing time in KZbin, which truly sucks. But I'm planning on having the time again beginning of January 2024, latest then new content will arrive!

[@gabrielneves6602]

@@BierTier take ur time my guy, we will be patiently and anxiously waiting for more. All strength from Brazil and the best regards. Hope it gets better for u my man, and know u brighten our days whenever u post. Stay strong!

[@BierTier]

Thank you so much for the kind words, I truly appreciate that! That is what keeps me going for sure :)

[@leonidmolochnikov4147]

Regarding the sensor driven filter - what if the automation is connected directly to the vent? You have them submerged anyhow, so they cannot overpressure, and you save on the energy cost of the shutoff

[@Tomeroche]

I'm pretty sure that'd break it since it'd be activating for the gas packet behind the one that'd be sent out then the one you'd want to to go in.

[@jonumine6250]

It could also be done with a mechanical filter.

[@zargon7222]

It works perfectly with only the vent

[@strings1984]

You can if the vent is open it goes out it if it's not the right element the vent is closed so the packet continues on the line, if your havening an issue with it running one packet behind throw a 1 second or less automation filter on and it will fix it. Also a not gate will make it open for anything that is not the element you want and keep only that element in the pipe.

[@desolationjones954]

Very helpful mod in general and esp. for mechanical filter building/debuging: Pipe Flow Overlay by SnackJunkie This mod will help you troubleshoot all your pipe flow problems! Upon opening the overlays for either liquid pipes, gas pipes, or conveyer rails, all of the pipes/rails will show a green arrow indicating the direction of flow. If no flow is possible, they'll instead have a red cross, making it easy to see where your problems are.

[@merendell]

one thing to be careful with mechanical filters, dont let your lines back up. If your filtered line backs up you will have the overflow continuing down the origonal unfiltered line. A second thing is when your useing 2 bridges and a loop for your filtering it relies on there being an occasional non full packet or a packet of another gas. because the output can only send out 999g packets (with 1 g devoted to the loop) you build up a bit of a buffer with consecutive packets of 1kg. If there's a gap in the packets that buffer dumps into the output, if you send 1000 full packets your buffer runs out of space and sends the overflow down the unfiltered line.

[@j.n.-fr5uh]

The way I did it was with a gas element sensor and a shutoff valve which admittedly is not entirely free but works exactly the same as the 120w filter, for 12x cheaper

[@j.n.-fr5uh]

i didnt expect you to cover that literally a minute after making the comment you truly are thorough

[@BierTier]

That’s great, I’m glad you found the section 😊 I try to cover everything, makes the video a bit longer but I provide chapters so people can find what they need! Glad you enjoy the tutorial!

[@j.n.-fr5uh]

I'll be honest, I only use chapters to skip backwards when I need to take a closer look at something I didnt get, never to look forward. I should probably start doing that lol

[@blavena]

It's best to have 2 filters per pipe to avoid overflow. While the 2 bridges solve the issue for a long time (about 999 packages) if for whatever reason the source pipe gets 1k packages of the material to be filered in a row there will be overflow and whatever is in the valve will pass, then more and more for every subsequent package of the same thing. One filter works great if you're sure the pipe is varied, but for extremely random stuf I'd be safe with 2, either that or play with sensors and stuff to stop the pipe at it's origin if the composition is to homogenous Also with 2 you can do some nice designs with a bridge to each side, 500g on the valve and an extra bridge to mix the output, it look quite neat with filter rolling different directions

[@deatho0ne587]

8:30 - you are correct in most cases, but what if two packets of O2 have 1kg? This is more likely to happen in liquids to be fair at 10kg. You showed a way to solve it but it does slow down you air or liquid per second. 21:11 - For what you are using the gas shutoff for, you do not need it. Just connect the automation wire to the vent and run the pipe from sensor to the vent. Requires 0 power and does the same thing. Also works for liquid.

[@BierTier]

On the first one: Even if you have 1000 packets of O2 in a row it would still work. The first package deposits 999.9g in the first pipe(full 1kg in the loop now) and 0.1g in the second(0.2g in the loop now). The second package then deposits 999.8g in the first pipe on top of the existing 0.2g in the loop and 0.2g in the second pipe, so it comes out to 0.3g. This repeats over and over. Everytime an extra 0.1g are being sent to the second pipe. So after 100 packages you are still only at 10g in the second pipe. This means that after 10.000 packages of 1kg in a row this system would let 0.1g through(999.9g will be absorbed by the second pipe). A single packet in that row of 10.000 packages which has less mass than itself combined with whatever is in the loop already will reset the system and it can take another 10.000 before breaking. The same goes if there is a gap of a single package in the supply. 10.000 packages at 1 package per second would take 16.66 cycles ingame at 1x speed or 166.66minutes(almost 3h) in real life. Even with my 10x speed mod it still takes 16 minutes at full blast.(I have not let it run for that long, I just did some basic math here. While I made the video I let it run up to about 150g in the second pipe at 10x speed to make sure I'm correct). With liquids it's a much bigger issue, since you are filling the pipe with a pump every single time until the pump breaks or you run out of power/liquid. That's why I showed that specifically! To your second point: Does that work? To be very honest, I have never tried that. I don't use systems like that very often at all(see my Let's Play series). Definitely something I need to try! Thank you!

[@TeracomConsulting]

@@BierTierYep automating the vent works :) Easiest way to filter CO2 from a rocket while keeping O2 in (O2 gets vented back to rocket).

[@BierTier]

@@TeracomConsulting That’s crazy, I never even considered that, lmao 😂 For rockets I just put a vent for O2 on the very bottom. It deletes the CO2, no filtering or anything needed. Is it a bit of an exploit? Yes, so it’s up to personal preference if anyone wants to do that or not :)

[@TeracomConsulting]

@@BierTierFrancis John was using the overwrite method for a while. That means that you are replacing < 1 kg co2 with 1kg O2. It ended up overpressurizing his ship over time. I also had overpressurization issues, so I run a mini gas pump (with co2 sensor) that runs past a vent dumping O2 back in, remaining CO2 goes to the rocket output port. If it works for you go for it. I'm just sharing an option and the reasoning behind it.

[@BierTier]

@TeracomConsulting I see… I didn’t know he used it and I never noticed any overpressure issues. But thinking about it, that does make sense. I guess it would take a good while, but eventually it will happen. I need to take a closer look at my rockets and see what the pressure is in there. I appreciate any and all tips and tricks. Just because I make YT videos doesn’t mean I can’t miss or mess up stuff 😊

[@rafanagorski392]

You tell us in 11 min that we don't need a dup to connect the wire. We need one dup on the asteroid. If there is none we can only cut. I know it for sure. I learned about it the hard way 😂

[@BierTier]

Well, ok 😂 You do need a dupe on the planetoid, otherwise the option to build will be greyed out 😂 What I meant is that no dupe needs to be there to build it, haha 🙈😂😂

[@brockormond4131]

love your explain videos, could you explain the temperature cloning glitch? I've found videos about it's basic structure and can duplicate it, but then I saw a Luma Plays short that expands on it, but doesn't explain it well. I tried a horizontal version and it didn't work as expected. I had the thermal regulator on the left with the intended 'cold source' on the right, but the glitch started cloning left to right (i.e. got warmer rather than cooler; which is in contrast to Luma's). All videos I found so far just glosses over the mechanics of it.

[@zaftnotameni]

mechanical filters are the best

[@BierTier]

They are awesome, there is no question!

[@-Cassiopeya-]

Hey thank you again for that wonderful tutorial ;)

[@BierTier]

Thank you, glad you enjoy it!! 😊

[@Bazorki]

so what is the requirement does it have to run from left to right or can i build it in reverse or even upside down as long as the incoming pipe has the same direction as the filter pipe ?

[@BierTier]

That is correct, you can build it in any direction you wish/need as long as the incoming pipe has the same direction as the filter pipe! I just used left to right as an example in the video

[@strings1984]

The last one you can do an element sensor to a not gate and then to a vent, it will vent anything that is not what the sensor is set to... ;-)

[@MichaelSayer-sf7gu]

I always do the smart shutoff valves from the end of the video. I’ve never even seen a mechanical one. cool I’m about to replace a bunch filters in my base and save some power. Great filter! Is there a zero power filtering system for solids? Curious. I know the rails behave differently than gases/liquids and I don’t think there’s a solid valve. They have the solid valve reset, which requires the selected input to be received every so often..

[@BierTier]

Awesome, I'm glad my tutorial helps you out in your base! Honestly, I don't know about solids. I never had to filter them before so I didn't really try around or look it up. No matter what it is, it always goes into a infinite storage for me :)

[@EdwardDowner]

@@BierTier Though you might want to separate out offgassers or refrigerables to somewhere else.

[@weltraumvogel2]

but what happens to all of the filters if the filtered-out connection backs up?

[@rafanagorski392]

How can we solve problems with game slowing down over time? I need to restart the game every hour to have decent fps.

[@BierTier]

It gets better when you restart the game? That sounds like a local issue. Potentially a memory leak or something like that. In general though, the brunt of the load is caused by pathfinding of dupes/critters/etc. and heat exchange calculations. Infinite storages(having all solid debris in 1 tile reduced the calculations required by a lot for example) help, reducing possible paths for dupes and critters as well. Having as much vacuum as possible is also helpful. That’s the best I’ve got for FPS increases :)

[@rafanagorski392]

​@@BierTierIt's happening only in the late game. 1k cycles, 25 dups, 6 asteroids, some piping ...

[@weaselclz]

Helpful :)

[@BierTier]

I'm glad you think so :)

[@pierrotdeanau1848]

For the late game… does it take more resources for the pc to run a mecanical filter than a natural one? Bcz 1 of the problem of oni is when it start to slow down from ALL the simulation 😅

[@BierTier]

I honestly don’t know. I don’t think that it takes much. The brunt of the load comes from pathfinding and heat exchanges. Since the gas always goes in the same direction and the main calculation for each package is addition(0.1g + whatever is added to that) and subtraction(whatever is in the loop - 0.1g) I’d think it shouldn’t be too hard on your PC 😊

[@zaftnotameni]

late game the best solution for FPS is the filtered pump mod I haven't tested it but would guess the normal filter is better for performance than the mechanical one, each bridge/valve with a fallback creates a fork where gas can go either way depending on conditions and each of of those should be an extra calculation per tick... so... very very very likely that the powered "intended" filters are more performant

[@zaftnotameni]

my preferred late game solution though is just to vaccum and blockfill as much as possible if you are not opposed to mods, besides the "filtered pump" there is also a "piped outputs" mod that saves a looooooot of processing power since a lot of blocks are prevented from emitting gas/fluid out instead just sending it straight to a pipe

[@arkansasorigami83]

White side of gas valve towards faces where liquid or gas comes from. And 0.1 grams on valve

[@Scott_Burton]

Personally, when I'm using a mechanical filter, for simplicity i use 2 bridges into th filter, with a pipe running across the outputs then looping into th valve set for 1 gram. Then when I want to prime it when i have, say 3 gases to start with, I Just put a valve aftrr the pump and set it to 100 grams. When thr pump starts, the valve only allowes 100 grams of the gas through at one time so a single pump will cteate 5 packets of 100 grams out of the 500 it started with (if I am in no rush, i can set the initial valve lower, say 50 grams, the first bridge it reaches, the entire "mini-packet" will jump into the first filter, and the filter's valve only lets 1 gram pass in the filter. If the output is already hooked up, the e,cess will continue on ita way, but several mini-packets of the same gas will fill the filter out. The pump initial valve can be opened up for larger packets to allow filling faster, when there's stability in which filters are primed and the gases around the pump. I do the 2 bridge version jus in case i need to push 1kg of gas into the pipeline later. Once its primed, no modification is needed to go to 1kg. Its a little more work to build, but also not as sensitive to pause and snipping

[@bugsglitchesexploits1750]

this algorithm begins and ends here

[@WiseMack718]

For the algorithm!

[@BierTier]

I highly appreciate that, thank you!

[@zaftnotameni]

just a cautionary tale with those... if the valves overheat, it all can break in a catastrophic way 🙈

[@BierTier]

Failure is always an option ;)

[@pierrotdeanau1848]

Im not sure if it’s my game or what, but i had my filter all broken by overheating and it was working like the broken stairs( like normal)…

[@zaftnotameni]

might depend on HOW you build them... what happens is, if the valve overheats and breaks, gas shouldn't go across anymore, so essentially your filter loop empties out, once the filter loop empties, it starts accepting everything i'd be curious to understand HOW yours didn't, because I can't even think of a way to build these where it wouldn't cause this issue

[@pierrotdeanau1848]

@@zaftnotameni i would like to know myself. What you said is true 100%, it should just empty my gas line and thats it… mysteriously, it was functioning just fine… and it was not so long ago but i repaired my gas filter since… i should have make a video on it…. 😅

[@zaftnotameni]

the only scenario I can think of that would be safe with a broken valve is: if the output of the filter is full and backlogged, the output and the filter loop both stay full (pre filled with the correct content) regardless 🤔 guess it will remain a mystery

[@GloryOfNight]

Fun fact: In germany you need a degree to get your gamer license, otherwise it's illegal to be a gamer. Don't forget you also need to renew gamer license yearly.

[@oktafianst]

I think better use " not gate "

[@MM-er6mr]

!