Mechanical Keyboard Size Comparison: 60% vs 40%

[@BenVallack]

Subscribe to my new custom keyboards channel! www.youtube.com/@BenVallacksKeyboards

[@DuncanRiach]

Wow. I love the clarity of your exploration, thinking, and expression. Thank you, Ben, for slowing down and for considering these things so carefully. It's inspiring.

[@BenVallack]

Thanks for such a kind comment - it's very encouraging to read.

[@ruijiang6274]

I'm glad that I found this channel right after I pre-ordered the OLKB Planck by Drop. Your solution to the arrow keys seems quite intriguing and as a fellow vim user I'm super hyped to try it out once my Planck arrives!

[@PosiTionZz]

You deserve more views man, your videos are so well filmed and edited! Keep it up

[@BenVallack]

Thanks! Hopefully in time!

[@_solid__]

Great stuff, man. Always great to see new content creators offering something different, especially more analytical like your stuff. Keep it up!

[@BenVallack]

Thanks for you comments - really appreciate it.

[@acesthelamp]

I found this channel right as I was looking into custom keyboards a few days ago and its been great to hear what you have to say. Thank you.

[@BenVallack]

Full review of the Planck EZ should be ready over the next week. Which should conclude my little series on mechanical keyboards for now. At least until I fancy talking about changing to Workman layout!

[@DciMaluko]

Any phone nowdays uses a 40% layout, so it seems that not only we can all live with it (without even realizing it) but also are pretty used to it. Nice video again!

[@BenVallack]

Good point!

[@Gh3tt0Gam3r]

Not at all a valid comparison, phones swap out there entire keyboard at one click. Keyboards cannot swap out every key to display the necessary Keys

[@koob1413]

@@Gh3tt0Gam3r I think Flux Keyboard can make a smartphone like keyboard irl. their keyboard has a screen underneath the keys, and with the right software they can make a very good and very compact keyboard with all the F keys, symbols, numbers, etc. I would love to see them try it. it could create a whole new genre of useful keyboards.

[@koob1413]

I just saw their video, and it seems like they already made the idea. very cool.

[@xorlux]

Man you need a lot more subs , this is some high quality video right here !

[@oldmanyellsatkeyboards]

I like your thoughtful explanation on how/why you made your keymap decisions, always interesting to see how others set up their layouts. I really like your escape/enter palm hits, and the lighting on the hjkl when you activate the layer, that is really cool - EZ has really great lighting options. Personally I like keeping shift as a tap/hold function under my space/backspace keys on the thumbs!

[@BenVallack]

Thanks for your comments! Yeah layouts are fun aren’t they. Lighting options are definitely awesome on this.

[@jamesventura674]

Fantastic video and explanation (along with your others). Figured I'd leave a comment now before your subscriber count inevitably explodes due to the high production quality right off the bat. Thanks for taking the time to make this and keep up the great work.

[@BenVallack]

Thanks so much - really appreciated.

[@otann]

Thank you, Ben! This video finally swung me to buy the Plank and I am so happy with it now. I've set shift-on-hold to the spacebar and it works great for capital letters for plain text. I still have a dedicated key for shortcuts though, but I was surprised that the brain now prefers to use the spacebar when typing capitals.

[@BenVallack]

Very interesting, I might give that a try! Thanks!

[@wanzai567]

I'm in the same boat with the shift tap/hold behaviour. Also, glad to have found your videos, well done! Subbed.

[@maxxiong]

Or just use a semi-40% style layout on a 60%/75% with split space bar... 40% pushes a lot of programming keys to require two key presses which is arguable slower than leaving the home row. That being said I personally remapped the worst pinky keys on my 60% anyways (brackets and backslash, because I use dvorak) because I usually end up missing those keys.

[@FullAnarchyDotNet]

watching your videos, all your experiences are exactly what I had with my Planck keyboard. 100% the customization cant be understated, and the led customization lets you apply color coding to portions of layers, meaning that if you forgot where the numpad is on a layer while first learning it, looking down to help you adjust works wonderfully. Im sure that there are better ergonomic keyboards, however for simplicity and intuitive learning curve, this keyboard dominates IMO

[@BenVallack]

Exactly!

[@KamenMinkov]

I think a good alternative for HJKL as arrow keys is IJKL (also on a layer) - this way you both have them in a T shape and you don't have to move your index finger from the home position.

[@redemedy8602]

yeah but he is a Vi user so the layout is stuck for him. For example i am an emacs guy(so I think using vim is sacrelligious but i wouldnt changer a thing about the controls i get in emacs: (ctr+n=downkey, ctr+p=upkey, ctr+b=back, ctr+f=forward) while using the ALT key you can have another way of skipping through keywords while scrolling with other key combinations :). I hope this was a good intro to why both emacs and competing software VIM users will not change their setup whatsoever.

[@MAGAIVER]

@@redemedy8602 but vim uses the actual letters H J K L or the arrows, so the actual arrows can be mapped wherever you want.

[@RykerFreegeld]

Very detailed and thoughtful. Best video I've seen on this topic. I'm wondering whether you could perhaps do a video on how to program secondary layers, e.g. how to set a modifier on the bottom left row to access custom-set arrow keys somewhere on the right of the keyboard. I think if that were possible, I would 100% sold on these keyboards.

[@BenVallack]

Thanks! I have looked at layers in layouts in these videos, lots of other tips too. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXLCeIiPiJ2IgMk kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKecaX-GgqZqY68 kzbin.info/www/bejne/iWHFc6CZpLumo5o kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4TMd2p_rLSsfNk

[@RykerFreegeld]

@@BenVallack Wow! Thanks a lot! These companies should be paying you big $$. Keep it up. :)

[@BenVallack]

@@RykerFreegeld I wish! Thanks!

[@allanmaple4676]

Great comparison video.

[@Hirodal]

The idea is great, although it is not good for international keyboards like Hungarian. In my case ű, ú, ó is just one key press, no other key is needed. I do touch typing in Hungarian. Furthermore there is a rarely heard argument in this topic. What if you do not have a comfort to use your keyboard everywhere. There are cases when you just sit in front of a peers keyboard. This is already a pain for me with my Poker3. It makes working with regular keyboard harder (not enough that I am already using vim in an environment where nobody else use it). 60% keyboard boosted my productivity with a lot of cost.

[@BenVallack]

Extremely valid points, if you are sharing keyboards there is a very good argument to forget about this whole idea and get really good with standard boards. Re, native language characters, someone shared this idea with me, github.com/Pattrigue/qmk_firmware/blob/firmware20/keyboards/moonlander/keymaps/pattrigue/pattrigue_danish.c extremely interesting solution.

[@eakishway]

Yes. The downside is I have to bring my keyboard everywhere and the built-in keyboard of my laptop is much less useful for me.

[@yash1152]

2:18 full unhindered view of the 40% ortholinear board (12 x 4 = 48 keys)

[@tomato6102]

man needs more subs

[@ATM-Tech]

Great informative video! Gave me some ideas for my arrow keys on my ergodox.

[@BenVallack]

Awesome - glad it was useful!

[@SecretSecret-c7o]

Great review, thanks.

[@GirdEmUp]

Hey Ben, new subscriber here. Love your stuff so far. Have you looked into the advanced settings in Oryx? There are some settings that allow you to customize how those dual action keys work. There's a toggle that will change the behavior you complained about with key timeouts so that if a dual function modifier key is held, but no other key is pressed before the modifier is released, it will send the secondary value for that key instead of the modifier. There are a quite a few options in that advanced settings tab that give you pretty granular control over how your board works, and ZSA seems to be continually updating their tooling. I've got two Ergodox keyboards and just ordered a Planck for on the go coding. I use home row dual function modifiers and have had no issues whatsoever once getting my advanced settings right. I hope this helps!

[@BenVallack]

Thanks for your comments I have had a bit of a play with those settings. I will revisit them - that sounds very interesting about the toggle behaviours options. Fancy sharing your layout? Curious about your home row setup.

[@loganawilliams]

You throughly convinced me that I want to get a 40% Ortholinear. I definitely like heavier low-profile aluminum cases, so wondering how you feel about the plastic case of the EZ?

[@BenVallack]

Yeah totally. I love how light it is - definitely not too concerned about plastic build.

[@loganawilliams]

@@BenVallack Thanks for your thoughts. I wouldn't be using it for portability as much as just a faster interface, so I probably would still want it to feel tough like my Drop Alt. I wonder if I could mod an OG Planck case to fit . . .

[@loganawilliams]

Answer via Reddit: www.reddit.com/r/olkb/comments/ccrrq5/planck_ez_plates/ Looks like the PCB corners would hit, unless if they could be shaved down. (Updated with correct Reddit link)

[@BenVallack]

Ah gotcha. They are good at replying to questions so you could see what they say about dimensions etc.

[@MAGAIVER]

If you are still looking for a heavy 47key ortho, take a look at the KPRepublic BM40 with the PSD40 case.

[@xiroshimaa]

Good job mate

[@henriquecattini3681]

How you don’t have a mil yet? Keep It up.

[@BenVallack]

Thanks so much for your encouragement!

[@koob1413]

the fact you like this is weird. at this point why not go with 20%? why not 8 keys and use a complicated key combination to type any given letter or command? I understand TKL and 75%, any less and you’re losing functionality.

[@BenVallack]

I was on the way...! kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5C5pouMetd3bKc

[@koob1413]

@@BenVallack yeah I checked your videos after I made the comment, and it seems like you really are going with as few buttons as possible. good luck with that, although I still think it doesn’t make sense.

[@geht]

Really enjoying your videos. (Subbed.) Thanks and greetings from Germany! =)

[@BenVallack]

Many thanks! Awesome how global this platform is :)

[@AmsNl2BcnEs]

Would love to know what some of these keys are... There is a blank one on the left hand side, an OS, and a graphic like a box. I don't use ESC much so was surprised he gave it such prominence.

[@SubZeroGuitarPlayer]

would love a vim user's perspective on the 40% with a screencast if possible. Im a CS student who just ordered an MIT and use nvim on the regular. Feeling intimidated by the learning curve

[@BenVallack]

Yeah it’s perfect for vim - having the confidence of not loosing your finger orientation when reaching for the number/punctuation row is the game changer. Definitely will do a screen cast at some point. Still thinking about keeping development content on my software channel KZbin.com/SetSeed though. I’ll write a post on here if I do that though.

[@primarkbargainbin9847]

im sold. Getting my first otho.

[@delphijedi]

great video, I never thought about using the bottom corners of the plank with the edge of my wrist, i'm going to have to give it a try. I was wondering are you willing to share your layout?

[@BenVallack]

sure! configure.ergodox-ez.com/planck-ez/layouts/mlGOX/jLzOw/0 - does that link work?

[@delphijedi]

@@BenVallack Cheers dude, the link works fine.

[@yash1152]

2:03 what's that thingy in the top left corner of the video?

[@BenVallack]

The now (absurdly) discontinued Leatherman 4 keychain tool.

[@jammies701]

Great vid

[@qweryedu]

Too be honest the video is really good, but you kind of make up arguments just for the sake of convenience. The fact that you specific keycap set in the 60% is not a DSA, SA, etc. does not mean that you can't get another set so you can customise it the way you want. Other than that, keep it up.

[@BenVallack]

The point is valid - I have switched my key layouts all over the place many times since getting the 40%. Even if I could find a 60% set that matches what I’m doing now I wouldn’t want to have to buy a completely new set of keycaps just to change around a modifier from one row to another. Also I find keycap sets are extremely hard to find exactly what you want, expensive and limited supply. Let alone a full change like QWERTY to Workman. Having all DSA profiles makes that kind of thing extremely easy! Thanks for your comments though - appreciate the feedback but in this case I think it’s worth a small defence :)

[@qweryedu]

@@BenVallack You could mention then, that you can get a blank set, but learning the layout would be a hustle though

[@yash1152]

hey so, 2:18 where do the square braces go?

[@BenVallack]

On another layer :)

[@myra6490]

Isn’t the difference between a 40% and a 60% just the addition of the number keys à la Planck vs Preonic?

[@BenVallack]

Yeah pretty much I think!

[@danmusiceasy]

When using a 40% keyboard for programming, doesn't it slow you down to have the brackets on a separate layer? On a normal keyboard you do need a modifier key for { }, but for brackets and square brackets you don't.

[@BenVallack]

For me I find the fastest/least effort is to minimise moving more than one key's distance away from the home row. Hitting a layer switch with the thumb and hitting a key only one key away from how row is more reliable that having to reach over a few keys and find those individual keys. There's something really productive about feeling that minimal finger movement.

[@danmusiceasy]

@@BenVallack Yes I definitely see the huge advantage of this. I would also like to use such a keyboard for Plover stenography which is someting amazing I only recenly heard about.

[@TheTanadu]

What about splitted 40%? You said it's "not so convenient" - I mean... 47-key can be splitted evenly (so splitting this 2U space into 2x1U, making it 48-key, one space for each thumb), and usb-c cable don't have to be long... also you'll carry another cable anyway

[@BenVallack]

Check out some of my more recent videos :)

[@OSpr4567]

I don't need neither deserve. But hell I want one.

[@TheSightsome]

At this point, I'm really curious, what switches do you prefer? As a fellow long-term Mac user, who does not know how these varieties of keys feel, but who remembers with fondness the feel of the old clacky keyboards I learned to type on, I would really like to know.

[@BenVallack]

Kailh Silent Pink by a long way :) (I think they call them rose now) - but the game has changed now because I am trying a Gergoplex (photo in community tab) which has a very light shallow action but is a bit more clacky than the quieter mx type switches. I will do a big round up video soon with proper sound test.

[@alpacamale2909]

I don't understand why they don't make OEM row 3 keycap sets like these. They are gorgeous. I have watched this video of yours many times simply becvause of how good the Planck EZ looks. I wonder if you would go back to this keyboard with the current layout that you use now in the moonlander.

[@u1ti]

Love how well thought out your videos on 40% ortho keyboards are. Most ppl chalk it up to preference or discuss mostly the ability to have more keys on one small board. You've probably done the most to convince me to try out ortho. Do you have any thoughts on Boardwalk PCB keyboards?

[@BenVallack]

Thanks! Personnaly I find having keys on the thumb row that are not near the thumbs to be pretty frustrating. I’m also keen on avoiding needing to stretch fingers more than a single key away from thier home positions. So for me now I’m quite into columnar 36 key keyboards like this one kzbin.info/www/bejne/mojJgpirjal-ldE

[@u1ti]

@@BenVallack Oh if you see this, I believe I heard you say you use Vim on an iPad. What sort of development work do you do if I may ask? Great ergo video btw, I haven't heard of this one.

[@BenVallack]

@@u1ti Yep Vim on iPad for web design/CMS development − great set up!

[@marcello4258]

back again :D well i really love it and the idea.. but i also work on a laptop keyboard so i am wondering if i will have a really hard time to adapt forth and back.. have you any experience with that?

[@BenVallack]

Yeah I have jumped in 100%. If I have to use my laptop as a laptop I just use it with the Planck.

[@marcello4258]

@@BenVallack yea.. that is what i am afraid of that i will need to this. sometimes laying on the sofa or being really on the go in a cafe, park or whatsoever it is not really an option to use an external keyboard ;)

[@BenVallack]

How far off would you be from being able to use an iPad pro instead of the laptop for your sofa/cafe type working? iPad and the Planck for me is an amazing setup for this. I’ve done some videos on that combo on the channel if you havn’t seen them. My next Mac won’t be a laptop for this reason (Mac mini that can stay in my office permanently).

[@marcello4258]

@@BenVallack i wonder how you do to manage laying on your back typing on the planck ;) ..the planck requires a solid surface which, in fact, my laps / belly aren't ;)

[@BenVallack]

@@marcello4258 kzbin.info/www/bejne/gIqTl6eugMl-pdE this is as far as I go in sofa mode!

[@GabrielCsanalosi786]

Can this 40% keyboard be programmed (customized) on one computer and then have that customization carry other to other computers?

[@BenVallack]

Yep that’s exactly how they work. Even works nicely on iPad Pro!

[@TCArcticWolves]

Is hitting the bottom left for return and esc introducing any wrist problems? Very interesting idea to free up some of my momentary toggles as I also find dedicated keys tend to behave more reliably.

[@BenVallack]

Yeah, exactly why I set it up like this. Very comfortable to use as you're just bashing them with the base of your hands really.

[@res.publica]

Long live VI!

[@redemedy8602]

Hey Ben! I really beliebe you should at least try to work with emacs! I have been using it for sometime now and i mean nothing can compare to the feeling of speed you get with the workflow of coding :) Just so I am clear, if you use Vi over emacs i will unsub. Its just so good because you litterally can do anything inside this gnu masterpiece!

[@joshuamhardwick]

Ben, being a Britt, I can't help but notice you are using an ANSI layout vs ISO. Would be great to see a video on how you found making that shift. Also would be good to hear what you do for £.

[@BenVallack]

I hadn't really thought about that actually-just used what seemed fairly logical for the Mac. This is my current layout: configure.ergodox-ez.com/planck-ez/layouts/DZyRq/eBd0J/0 I'm a full stack web dev - here is the product I've built over the years: www.setseed.com

[@MajinHico]

Vim and plank user, this is something interesting.

[@vincentprivett]

Great videos. Very professional , clear and informative. Question, I can't see a right shift key. What are you using for the right shift key? Thanks,

[@BenVallack]

Thanks! I moved the up arrow keycap for my right shift. I’m on the search for a nice set of key caps with two shifts so I can get it all looking nice though!

[@vincentprivett]

@@BenVallack thanks for replying. I just saw that you discussed it at 5:20. Great job.

[@PhilipSchweitzer4]

These couple of Ortho videos are great! At ~$200 though, the Planck ez is outside my price range... Drop you know of any prebuilt reprogramable 40% that are closer to the $100 mark? I understand the vortex core has really bad layer functionality

[@BenVallack]

In my research I seemed to find big snags with everything I found except this one! I figured with all the open source stuff this would be a ‘forever keyboard’ plus the DIY switch changing means you can replace them if they fail too. It’s a lot of money but in the scheme of things given the anticipated lifespan I reckon it’s pretty good value if you work with computers.

[@PhilipSchweitzer4]

@@BenVallack You're probably right. I use spacemacs, so being able to stay close to the home-row is a huge bonus

[@BenVallack]

Spacemacs looks cool will have to try it one day!

[@marcello4258]

afaik you use the workman layout nowadays.. how did you come along with the hjkl in vim?

[@BenVallack]

I remapped that to yneo - there were a few other adjustments needed to deal with what those keys should have done - there are sample .vimrc tiles floating about to do this. Works well though!

[@BarefootOnTheMoon0]

I find myself very curious to know your average WPM

[@BenVallack]

I'll be doing a video on that covering my progress after switching to the Workman layout, stay tuned!

[@Rowsdow3r]

So are you using your thumbs for all the bottom row keys?

[@BenVallack]

Actually not quite - I'm using the palms of my hands for the bottom corners (esc and enter) then I tend to use my pinkies for the Control keys - the rest I use my thumbs.

[@zekeviews]

*shows 60%* : "BIG THICC" *shows 40%* (slightly smaller) : "SUPER SUPER THIN"

[@MarkusBurrer]

I use my left thumb for shift. When I tried this the first time it was amazing. I always hated to use my little fingers for shift. But it doesn't work with the Planck EZ with this 2x1 shift key

[@BenVallack]

Interesting, so where do you have the shift key? Next to space?

[@MarkusBurrer]

@@BenVallack exactly. I try to use the thumbs for modifiers as much as possible. I even use a layer for cursor, esc, tab and enter

[@razorgarf]

TKL all the way

[@mdtaylor2274]

I have a 0% keyboard because my wallet is empty. :(

[@BenVallack]

Yeah these things are pricey. But given they can easily outlast the life cycle of the computer you connect them to they can be fairly cost effective.

[@mdtaylor2274]

@@BenVallack so true mate. I've just ordered a second hand Tofu60 and really looking forward to getting it. But after watching a few of your videos, I'll probably be giving the 40% Ortho layout a go. It's just so practical and worth it's weight in gold.

[@BenVallack]

looks like a cool place to start - it's all a journey. have fun!