38C3 - We've not been trained for this: life after the Newag DRM disclosure

[@awindowskrill2060]

"delay deflect derail" peak moment

[@Matthew-lm3zl]

19:45

[@fraenkiboii]

yep that was absolute GOLD

[@gFamWeb]

"in other news, the Polish hackers are now sued for death threats" (I wouldn't be surprised if this happens)

[@ABa-os6wm]

Shame on Neuwag.

[@enricofischer1330]

Lawsuits are temorary, glory is forever.

[@stratos2]

"We regret nothing" Awesome work guys, thank you for your persistence on this!

[@karottenbunker]

go public sooner

[@revenevan11]

I wonder if UTK might take up the case now that this talk brought to attention that, in fact, some of the trains were turning off *while moving* in that one area with the misplaced gps lock. Sure, they can argue that locks keeping trains off aren't *really* a passenger safety issue... but how about now that there's evidence of cases in which it happened with passengers on board?

[@uis246]

Good point. Abrupt stop could have injured someone.

[@LostieTrekieTechie]

​@@uis246even if it comes to a gentle stop, stranding people is a safety issue.

[@CauseOfBSOD]

And blocked an operational line or whatever the local law calls it (extra charge that could be thrown on with monopolistic/anticompetitive behaviour, wilful sabotage, reckless endangerment of human life, miscellaneous damages to railway infrastructure (if sudden stops were at emergency levels) etc)

[@agehall]

Not only mentioned on the front page - also above the fold which is a big thing in the newspaper industry!

[@RinoaL]

I'm glad this was finally uploaded, couldn't watch it on your website past 20 minutes when I tried a while ago.

[@_xch12i5_6]

Also my personal experience. If you have evidence and go public it is very likely that things might get rolling. Go public, because your pockets as a single person will never be as deep as their pockets. Whoever they are.

[@grimfistgaming7694]

True hacker ethics at work here. You guys just earned your hacker knighthood! Press F!

[@georgH]

Public money - public code I've been saying this for years, but governments are ignorant, corrupt, or both

[@chilversc]

That's difficult though as the company might give a lower rate as a loss leader expecting to make their profit back from maintenance contracts. Thus if the code is public the company will charge a lot more for it. The government then have to justify to the people why they're spending five times as much on purchasing the trains when there are cheaper options available.

[@LostieTrekieTechie]

​@@chilversc does the government own the train it bought or not?

[@chilversc]

@@LostieTrekieTechie that would depend on the contract. But not always, as some come with service agreements. Likewise, may own a license for Windows, but that doesn't mean I get the source code. If the government want source code, they'll have to request that when purchasing the trains. Though it's likely that many manufacturers won't want to hand that over, so it will limit their choices. The ones that will hand it over would probably want them to pay to write the software as bespoke for the government, which tends to have a higher price tag. It's not that it can't be done, but there would be implications, those likely being a higher cost. That said, if the service contract had a fixed end date I don't think it should be lawful for the software to brick itself. Even for closed source software.

[@chilversc]

There is an alternative option that may be available for certain large organizations and governments. That would be the right to inspect the source code without actually having any rights to modify the source. That might be a cheaper option, but wouldn't make the source code publicly available.

[@overdev1993]

what a bunch of legends, fearless until the end

[@commander-tomalak]

You are doing an amazing job, both at finding and fixing such stupid locks and at presenting your case to the public. Hats off to you, Gentlemen!

[@Luzgar]

Thank you, it felt really good seeing some people fighting against the appalling state of the world and having some success.

[@1BergerVongSchlauigkeitHer]

Newag's stock price has been doing incredibly well this year for some reason.

[@jupa7166]

Well the trains are quite good, just a shitty management.

[@mateuszczop2363]

Well, they won a ~$1B contract on 35 new trains for PKP Intercity

[@devparapalli]

Thanks for the follow up! Much appreciated

[@frankhaugen]

The EU should be coming down on the manufacturer with all its might. It would have, if it was a French or Spanish manufacturer, but Poland and other Eastern European members, don't matter to the leadership. But how could a sub-contractor be sued? 15th will be interesting to follow

[@Tonatsi]

My guess is that it can't go to the european court until the situation is "resolved" or enough to start a lawsuit is gathered and the affected parties actually register a complaint, as that's how it'd happen for cases in the richer countries too.

[@frankhaugen]

@Tonatsi ah, good point. Yes, this probably is an internal matter until it's either brought before the EU courts or something. Probably, the workshop would be the one that would have to make an anti-competitive behavior compliant and say that national organizations are not doing their job or something. But it's looks like it's very much covered by EU regulations like: Article 101 TFEU: Prohibits cartels and anti-competitive agreements. Article 102 TFEU: Prohibits abuse of a dominant position. So there's probably a good amount of litigation before all is said and done

[@MetalheadAndNerd]

The Polish government always fought tooth and nail against anything from the EU that would interfere with corruption.

[@Misophist]

This might depend on a parliamentary initiative, or pressure by Polish EU representatives in Brussels. Else, it might depend on judicial escalation. Only if all possibilities to escalate/appeal a decision in a member country are exhausted, an EU court may be invoked to arbitrate.

[@musiqtee]

11:49 Oh yes, I saw this… My lifelong train enthusiasm, mediocre -programming- scripting skills, and post 2008 political-economical radicalisation all collided, there and then. On behalf of us all (99 of 100 I guess…) - Humble thanks to the whole team!

[@mbarrio]

Amazing work, this is insane and it happens in all closed software.

[@DerekMartell]

Delay, deflect, derail oh my god 😂😂😂

[@piercebros]

Oh gosh, this is marvellously impressive work. Well done, chaps. Greetz from London

[@alexhope212009]

Public money, public code. That is going to stick with me, thank you.

[@yoyoyonono]

next time I'm on a train that stops I will go right to the toilet and press the SOS button

[@theprstc]

don't forget to open the door

[@Luzgar]

That's the kind of stunt a company shouldn't be able to survive.

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

as an occasional glider pilot I'm delighted one of the FLARM devs is one of the NEWAG jailbreakers

[@nullvoid3545]

This brings me so much joy.

[@Luzgar]

We need more people like you 3.

[@Schadowofmorning]

The sequel we all waited for

[@pete3897]

Big thumbs-up for FLARM! :)

[@CrowdKraut]

Newag should have called VW. VW knows all about defeat device denial.

[@adavies6696]

you dont need defence costs; the manufacturer should pay costs

[@codures]

Please,what was the company name again, NewGag?

[@Tony_Polony]

Newag

[@codures]

@Tony_Polony pls, check "gag" definition in Shakespeare's language.

[@Tony_Polony]

@@codures goad is the gag.

[@piercebros]

😂

[@serkandevel7828]

*HELLO NEWAG, PUT ME IN THE COURT DOCUMENT TOO*

[@malwareartist]

Stand-up comedy at the expense of the Polish taxpayer

[@maciejhaj5789]

Awesome work guys!!!

[@douglascodes]

Wake up honey! A follow up to last year's train hacking video just dropped!!

[@kensaiix]

34:05 chapeau. they fell for it.

[@glytchd]

Oh I get it! When you 'over IN' the Cold food but you 'Ov OUT the Hot'! Lol. Yeah like wouldn't it be the other way around???

[@aLeft95]

Is the live stream of the parliamentary hearing somewhere available in English? I'd really love to laugh along the amount of stupid Newag put up there.

[@MarimeGui]

I'd like to see that too

[@jus4795]

They are on Paulina Matysiak youtube page, but I'm not sure if there are English subtitles

[@aLeft95]

Yeah, unfortunately there are not. Not even the automated polish subtitles seem to work there, so the automated translation also does not do anything. Unlucky.

[@overdev1993]

@@aLeft95 yeah but there is a 9 minute highlight cut on her channel on that the subtitles + translation are working

[@themonkeyz]

I have noticed the XD change. Lol.

[@skella2416]

Tomorrows the court date 😂

[@sidremus]

epic win of the first order

[@interests3279]

Trains is hard job.

[@Katchi_]

First video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jqPPo5WcfL-iaM0

[@hammerth1421]

Right, some people might be missing the critical context here.

[@BHBalast]

Thanks

[@PRAR1966]

❣

DragonBall team derailed enterprise, lol theirs names 😆

[@funkyvogelfutter3147]

crazy

[@simeruk]

"jump, jump, left, right" - I fell of the chair ... :)

[@YourFavoriteHacker8666]

We out chyea

[@BHBalast]

I love how much Newag "arguments" are out of context, it's so funny xD

[@LeonDerczynski]

not been "trained" ha ha

[@Thomas.Hacker]

... Because, you can find the protocol in the head...😊 Some things, we can not show, it's the key 2 win the Game....

[@Thomas.Hacker]

Ich versteh euch ja, aber ihr müsst hier echt mit KZbin sprechen, hier brauchts andere Sprachen als Audiotrack - Nicht jeder kann das und ich frage mich warum das 2025 immer noch so ist, die Frage stelle ich mir seit Jahren! I understand you, but you really have to talk to KZbin here, you need languages other than audio tracks - not everyone can do that and I wonder why it's still like this in 2025, I've been asking myself that question for years!

[@L1m3r]

Are you a ChatGPT spam-bot account? Why are you spamming the comment section with nonsense?

[@mediacccde]

Die übersetzten Talks gibt's hier: kzbin.info/aero/PL_IxoDz1Nq2YICxl-KtTHOjEwxIOIsPrs

[@heldt952]

Hacker Thomas commented as if it was a live stream. Unfortunately, we are missing time stamps. Next level.

[@5Hydroxytryptophan]

​@@mediacccdeKZbin bietet doch inzwischen die Möglichkeit, weitere Tonspuren hochzuladen. Ließe sich das nicht in den Workflow integrieren/automatisieren?

[@SimonVaIe]

​@@5Hydroxytryptophan ist noch nicht für die Massen ausgerollt. Nächstes mal vielleicht.

[@Thomas.Hacker]

Not just trains, cars & planes/drones... Humans, peaoples & and loveley friends - We are the case!

[@Thomas.Hacker]

So is it...

[@Thomas.Hacker]

A paper 😂😂😂

[@Thomas.Hacker]

4 me is the answer clear...

[@Thomas.Hacker]

Error

[@AlfredoDutti]

Who cares about poland

[@MaxReiAT]

What are we supposed to do with your comment?

[@supersonictumbleweed]

Found an American

[@AlfredoDutti]

@@supersonictumbleweed you found Peruvian?

[@vene]

Smart people who understand that this is an abusive pattern that will happen in their own country unless they fight against it.

[@AlfredoDutti]

@vene it's just some polish. Who cares about them?