Medieval Brigandine Armour: More Details & Testing Thoughts

[@ttneiltt1]

No offence Matt, I could really see you as a baddie in a Robin Hood film. Black brigandine, shaved head and English accent. As we all know, the goodies in English ‘historical’ films must have American accents!

[@knearhood8]

He is definitely Sheriff of Nottingham materiel

[@seanheath4492]

I think Australian is an acceptable substitute for American. :P

[@ttneiltt1]

Sean Heath Yep. That’ll do it. So long as it’s not actually English which has been well established as the accent of villains since the action flicks of the 80’s and it would be just too confusing to give a hero the same accent. How on earth could you tell the difference between hero and villain?!

[@seanheath4492]

@@ttneiltt1 That's one thing I always found amusing about Quigley Down Under. It's set in Australia, but the villain's British and the hero's American. There's an actual story reason for it (at least for the American hero), but it's still kinda amusing.

[@sullir9397]

@@knearhood8 with all his talk of good penetration, it's more like Sheriff of Naughtyham.

[@brandonwestfall3241]

Important to remember that the majority of surviving brigandines being tinned could very easily be a case of survivorship bias.

[@BeingFireRetardant]

You just spoke to my soul. Survival is an oft necessary and somewhat underrated aspect of combat, although I too speak from a 'keep breathing' bias myself... Which I hope doesn't conflate the issue at hand. While I do think that un-tinned, rusted rivet armor may be potentially inferior, I am however, an enormously big fan of being capable of nullifying the effects of a battlefield death rattle. Because something is better than nothing whence the horde of zombie Mongols abound. Hence my predilections towards the armor that therefore is most suited towards the outcome, post warfare, that lends itself most easily to the ability to eat dinner afterward, both fully alive, and in the least egregious wound category possible... Inasmuch as it is fitting, one must mention too, that all surviving examples are from human examples that did, in fact, not survive to tell the tale of how their survival was based on the merits of their armor alone, or as a direct result of their survivability bias. The world waits in anguish, for the trumpets to sound... _______

[@nonna_sof5889]

I was about to say the same thing. Untinned iron is more likely to have rusted away before anyone finds it and so it's reasonable we'd find less of them.

[@Noxeus1996]

Beat me to it.

[@ぬんぬんビム]

@@BeingFireRetardant I think he meant more that tinned brigandines are much more likely *themselves* to have survived to the present because they didn't rust away. Untinned ones are more prone to rusting, and thus not surviving.

[@BeingFireRetardant]

@@ぬんぬんビム I know. That's why it's funny. Humor is best served camouflaged...

[@sushanalone]

The Brigandine is in all likelihood the misunderstood progenitor of the Studded Armour myth of Hollywood and RPGs.

[@notsoprogaming9789]

I think that's already been somewhat established

[@mattjack3983]

Well brigandine is more than just studded. Brigandine is actually steel armor. It's steel plates that are riveted to fabric or leather, and the studs seen on the outside are the rivets holding the steel plates in place. It's alot like lamallar armor. Brigadine is my armor for Buhurt, and when we do stuff in armor at the HEMA club. Alot of the very early American colonists in the 1500s and 1600s wore various kinds of steel plated brigadine armor, as it had proven to be effective against the Native Americans' stone arrowheads and weapons.

[@robertmanson5922]

"Because it was the first thing to hand" says the man in front of a wall full of weapons

[@Dvergenlied]

It was probably his coffee table sidearm. 😏

[@IceniBrave]

Those are all just painted on

[@OnlyKaerius]

@@Dvergenlied Made me think of the literal coffee table weapon sets(turns into shield and bat). Example: www.jamesmcadam.co.uk/table_for_sale.html

[@NateMcCarrick-Morgan]

3d animated!​@@IceniBrave

[@metatronyt]

Probably One of my favourite videos from you. Also, you have basically described the brigandine I've ordered a few months ago, which Is going to be tinned steel, with brass Rivets, made by the same guy who made yours. As soon as I get It, we could make a video comparing our brigs and the choices we made.

[@pipebomber04]

All hail metal tron! Does your brigandine include components for the shoulders/ upper arm? Like that of shad's.

[@metatronyt]

@@pipebomber04 No, I Plan on using normal plate for that, I like the contrast.

[@pipebomber04]

@@metatronyt hmm dont know how to picture it on my mind. But im sure it would look cool. Hope you get it soon.

[@metatronyt]

@@pipebomber04 It does look really good, trust me. ;)

[@bapro1715]

Hey, it's Met at Matt!

[@lemminglobber1854]

I wonder if they had a system like our current armour classification system for ballistic armour. "This brigandine is class 3a, it can stop any bow up to a draw weight of..."

[@simontemplar6279]

Hahaha you know they had to have SOME type of general rating system. Armour was their very life after all and I think they were sophisticated enough at their level and for their time.

[@watchthe1369]

Layering like you do for the outdoors just might be what you are thinking. Just the back and breast and legs for watch standing and every day ,but a riot or battle would want the addition of spaulders fauld and so on.....

[@rubbers3]

Man, I love brigandines. It's functional enough, looks great, easier to put on and wear, easier to fix, it's frankly the best "historically accurate fantasy adventurer" type of armour (something like *Kingdom Come: Deliverance* type of thing), so I just can't help but love this video!

[@ThatsLeoYKnow]

What I'm really interested in (at the moment) is the decorations, colours and fabrics etc. I feel like even though "historically accurate" armour and weaponry etc seem to be more and more commonplace in movies and games, we're still not really getting the actual tones and aesthetic decorations that you see in manuscripts and art from the time. It feels like such a missed opportunity to make everything dark and drab. (not a jab at your choice of colour for your brigandine, Matt) Say what you want about fantasy and jrpgs etc. because even though they're a jumble of periods and eras and anachronistic gear, they very often at least get the philosophy of personal decorations and fancy colourways right. That people often wanted to show off their expensive gear or their heraldry.

[@rubbers3]

"people often wanted to show off their expensive gear or their heraldry" And their junk. As in - crotch. As in - a codpiece.

[@darthkek1953]

@@rubbers3 having seen the plate suits at the Tower of London either the Kings of England had horsecocks or they wanted someone to stash a mid-fight snack.

[@rubbers3]

@@darthkek1953 A mid-fight snack. In a codpiece. That's kind of gay. Also - women nowadays wear push-up bras, and men back then had a similar thing, but for their crotch. It's not as weird when you look at it this way.

[@darthkek1953]

@@rubbers3 it's only gay if you accept a mid-fight snack from one of your colleagues.

[@kellyweaver8422]

I wonder if those brigandines with brass or bronze rivets were more likely to be tinned. To reduce the galvanic corrosion from the dissimilar metals.

[@Matt_S104]

Kelly Weaver I was wondering about galvanic corrosion too when he started talking about bronze/brass rivets.... as a blacksmith it's something we tend to avoid in any exterior work.

[@knearhood8]

that was first thing that came to my mind. And while they did not understand why, medieval and even ancient people did understand the corrosion problem of dissimilar metals.

[@budahbaba7856]

Yes, as a repair plumber who often encounters galvanic corrosion on jobs, i was wondering the same thing. I am a bit skeptical of how much tinning would help with that though simply because the contact surface between the brass rivet and the steel plate may also be a wear point. In that case, i don't know how long the tinning would last at that contact point. All i can say is that brass corrodes a lot slower than copper, and lower temperatures slower than higher temperatures. I can imagine getting a lot of use from it either way.

[@firegiants1812]

@@budahbaba7856 Yeah when I read this comment my first thought was this is such a slow reaction outside a marine or electrically energized environment it really would matter. Sweat would be the big factor, thus keeping it off the metals might be the biggest difference. Besides, as armor, if you are often actually fighting in it those bits would likely be disassembled and damaged ones replaced more often than would allow the corrosion to have time to matter. Armor wasn't just made and then worn until it failed. It got maintained, damage repaired and cleaned like most equipment or tools.

[@budahbaba7856]

@@firegiants1812 I think you are likely right about the practicality in the armors life expectancy. I have to admit though, even in this age of scientifically hardened steel, that nothing encourages a spirit of excellence in me like the sight of tempered bronze. Yes, technology eventually surpassed bronze for many purposes, but it never fell out of our vocabulary. And nothing looks more beautiful as an armor, in my opinion! :)

[@nathanward4899]

A decently armored soldier seems like they’d very difficult to kill.

[@TheAmbientWarrior]

Yep. That's the goal.

[@tedhodge4830]

Rondel dagger

[@dwightehowell8179]

@@tedhodge4830 Pole axe, corvan, mace, Bill, etc.

[@j.f.fisher5318]

It is worth noting that a lot of the bodies at Visby were disabled by leg wounds severe enough to be visible on the skeleton before being dispatched.

[@Simtar123]

Yeah people weren't stabbed through the torso like in the movies, but im sure alot of blunt trauma was applied to the head and any other vulnerable parts.

[@Sk0lzky]

Brass rivets don't snap more easily, at least not enough for my hands to notice after an evening of "arts and crafts" x) Steel ones, on the other hand, do snap when they rust, one of my belts was a victim of such mishap. I'm pretty sure they knew about it and greased/waxed their gear unlike we do with modern clothes.

[@fjz4289]

Loose the mail shirt, get a dark saxon gambeson and some hunting gauntlets and you are ready to sneak and robb Czeck towns to your heart's content.

[@chilisaucebottle7240]

Careful, he might feel a bit hungry.

[@Asghaad]

or you could put full plate arm and leg armor on instead and go hunting filthy Cumans for a living ... xD

[@Exosfear13]

lol, seriously. his armor is similar to my sneaky henry

[@fungus2116]

I wish manufacturers would pay more attention to the shape of brigs, without that wasp waist they look rather goofy

[@gi1dor]

See this recent Matt's video about this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r3jPaImYpJ56ZtE

[@chin258456]

Chinese and indo-persian brigandine not have a wasp waist and look decent tho

[@badideagenerator2315]

​@@chin258456 i can see what you mean with chinese brigandines, they cover the shoulders and legs which means the shape of the waist doesn't make them look goofy the same way it can with the european style.

[@seamus6387]

I've always wondered how much armor was painted. I know the few times I being it up I tend to get yelled at but the same thing can be said about marble statues being brightly painted and not just the white stone. Some people just can't accept that people loved bright colors and armor being "white" was just not that fashionable. Yes, they covered it in fabric or wore something over it. But, I'm still curious about someone slapping some paint on it just for a nice splash of color that also helped protect it from rust. Guess I'll have the keep looking for info.

[@mnk9073]

Look up German armouries and museums, the Germans really loved to paint their armour and there are some beautiful painted sallets. Also I think the Wallace collection has one or two as well. The original "white" ones are almost always Italian as it was fashionable there and the "white washed" ones thend to be British because the Victorians had a thing for deep cleaning and over polishing every piece of armour they could get their grubby hands on.

[@knearhood8]

I agree, one of the problems being that pre-modern paints were not very good and did not last long.

[@positroll7870]

Armor Surface Decoration: An Introduction kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJWsZ4Olf72gkMk

[@SuperFunkmachine]

White an shiny mirror like armour was a fashion for a short while in england. A short while as it needed more work to polish them and keeping that way need work. Some places had laws about selling covered armour, think of it like buying a car that's been wrapped there could be any damage hideing there.

[@bo_392]

i think even a modern paint doesn't stick to steel well if you don't have the right formula. so it's an extra challenge. rain and sun = you have to repaint it as it starts chipping off... just thoughts from a guy who has spray-painted things.

[@markjohnson406]

I am currently making my own brigandine so your comments on material choices were very helpful!

[@ulysses7157]

I just want to say your brigandine is beautiful. I just love it.

[@theimaginarium]

Brigandine is a totally underrated armor, I think. So much more versatile, flexible, practical than a suit of full plate. Less protective, sure, but definitely not weak or "light" by any means. Plus it looks stupendous.

[@alexandermartinez1318]

Ahhh... So this is what the guards outside of the Imperial City were wearing in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion... It was classified as light armor, so I like that you touched on its actual weight in comparison to a cuirass. I also like that you mentioned its advantage of being able to put it on by yourself, that's huge for my story writing! Great video! Stay awesome!

[@jvin248]

Your inclusion of artwork images is very helpful, much more detail in those old paintings than I would have expected. The fabric brigandine coverings can be waxed like 'iron pants' where people rub wax on canvas trousers, jackets, and hats then use a heat gun/fire to melt the wax into the fabric providing very good water proofing -- after done waxing a garment this way it feels dry to the touch but will look somewhat darker. Greasing the metal plates inside would help with flexibility and rust prevention, animal fats were available. Generally, using different rivet and plate materials will cause galvanic corrosion (basically a battery with one electrode material being consumed in the process) so you need to be careful which mix of materials are used. Galvanic material corrosion charts are around the Internet for those interested -- if the rivets corrode faster than the plates there will be a problem with the armor falling to pieces.

[@Setnja92]

There is one big advantage of armor piece, like the brigandine, which you can put it on you and off you alone. Without help of someone. In case of injury, when spear head or blade of the dagger founds the way through mail etc., you can find a quiete place, take the armor off you and tend your wounds. When you cant take of you cuirass and stop the bleeding or clean you wound from the dirt soon, you are done for. You will bleed out or the infection will start soon.

[@aleccrombie7923]

Another great video. Did not realise it was covered by plates in the inside. Why not wear plates on the outside? What a great piece of armour.

[@not-a-theist8251]

Awesome outfit! I never thought that I would comment this under a youtube video

[@Matt_The_Hugenot]

Remarks on corrosion: Using copper alloy rivets would make the problem worse, not better. Once moisture gets into the gap between the rivet and the plate the differing metals will cause galvanic corrosion attacking the iron in preference to the copper alloy. The same thing will happen should the Tinning become damaged. Tinning may have been used because it was impossible to maintain the plates directly once they were covered in fabric. To protect the entire brigandine I suspect it was necessary to use liberal amounts of animal fat, fish oil, or vegetable oil. The smell of rancid fat of a C15th army must have been amazing.

[@seamus6387]

I thought if that as well but as a cook I'll say just cover the metal in fat and heat it up. Once the oil polymerised it is seriously hard to get off and the smell is greatly reduced.

[@Matt_The_Hugenot]

@@seamus6387 Seasoning it like a pan works though not if it's covered in fabric. Frying wool or silk is not recommended!

[@edi9892]

Fitting armor makes a huge difference. I was once able to test several helmets and a simple iron hat felt terribly heavy, but the full armed light despite the latter covering more than twice as much and not being much thinner.

[@philipped.r.6385]

Wonderful video about one of my favorite types of armor! I'm always amazed by how beautiful the brigandines are in medieval paintings and illustrations. They bring a lot of color. I definitively agree that they are under appreciated. I think that if brigandines were done with hardened steel plates, the difference in protection with a steel breastplate of the same quality must have been more a question of degrees than anything else. Sure, the breastplate doesn't have gaps, gains in rigidity and will probably tend to make weapons slide on it more than a brigandine would, but you still have very good protection with a brigandine. In games, the later is often significantly worse than a breastplate, but it's certainly not accurate. Another thing that fascinates me is its etymology. It comes from the French word brigand. Today, in modern French, it means a bandit, but in old French, it originally meant a soldier member of a brigade. So, a brigandine is the soldier's armor. During the 14th and 15th century, most French soldiers who fought the Hundred Years War were paid mercenaries, but the state often struggled to pay them or brusquely disbanded them when they weren't needed anymore. So, they often banded together in "compagnies d'aventure" and pillaged the land for a living. So, the meaning of the word "brigand" slowly shifted toward someone who commits acts of banditry.

[@tomekm1804]

I'm a simple man. I see context, I click "like".

[@taphorphicexonyct]

This set up of armor you’re wearing here is very aesthetically pleasing, love this armor, especially the sallet

[@chadherbert18]

Love it! I’m going to test the Rondel I bought from Tod’s Workshop on some pumpkins later this month! These episodes make me want to start collecting armour too! 😂

[@lachy1709]

Pumpkins are highly acidic and will likely stain and possibly cause rust on your fancy new knife, so it’s recommended that you wipe it down quickly immediately after each use, even with a bit of WD40 in between to help protect it

[@bapro1715]

@@lachy1709 WD40, the fluid to fix everything.😁

[@chadherbert18]

@@lachy1709 Yes, good advice! definitely part of our routine with existing swords... :)

[@kuesdav]

I have one from Tod that I have used on melons,didn't even slow it down with a light thrust, beets which were a bit deflective until I put some force behind and then tore through and split the beet a bit like a wedge in a chunk of wood, and butternut and acorn squash in which again, the thing just tore through with not a lot of effort. I too am stabbing pumpkins soon. I suspect they will also be ridiculously easy to punch through. A good rondel is sorta scary in it's effectiveness. And yes, wiped the blade off and oiled immediately after use. Planning on getting some steel plates of varying gauges( I do realize not an armor analogue, will just be for fun) which I strongly suspect will give me considerably more trouble and maybe some maille also. The sound it made going through the melons and the squash was a tad disconcerting.

[@LazyLifeIFreak]

From a manufacturing perspective I can see why a brigandine would be cheaper. The blacksmith could use a wider range of raw stock to produce each metal plate, perhaps if he was particularly greedy, fit in lower quality iron in between the steel.

[@vasiliss.2426]

Matt, I love your channel, I've been subscribed from when you've had like 30k subscribers. I love your work, and keep at it! I love your channel, and agree with pretty much anything you say, so thumbs up! Keep up the good work, coronavirus or not, you're awesome and I commend you for your work. I would support you on Patreon, but I can't, I don't get paid enough, I live in Greece.

[@scholagladiatoria]

Thanks for sticking with the channel - hopefully lots more years to come :-)

[@curranegan5512]

Great video! I'm working on an Agincourt-era archer impression and I'm always eager for more information about brigandines!

[@ChrissieBear]

Imagine how more beautiful fantasy armor would look if more plate armor was covered in velvet with gold thread patterns on it that is then riveted with gilded brass rivets. Instead of giant shoulder pads. xD

[@dukesofdevon]

I'd always just assumed that the plates were internal to try and stop a blade sliding across the face until it found a gap? Or simply to hide the joins, making it harder for an opponent to gauge the potential gaps?

[@badideagenerator2315]

Probably a whole number of reasons rather than just 1 definitive reason.

[@gareththompson2708]

So just looking at it, I would think that the entire core out to the sleeves would be pretty much immune to sword cuts and thrusts. The face and limbs beyond the mail sleeves would be vulnerable to thrusts. The core would likely be immune to low poundage crossbows, while the extremities and neck might be vulnerable to a 350lbs crossbow with a needle bodkin head. Impossible to say whether the core would be vulnerable to high poundage warbows without some serious testing, as you say some brigandines probably would provide protection against high poundage bows. Polearms (billhooks, certainly corseques) would pose a serious threat to the extremities and anything not directly covered by the brigandine. It would require testing to determine how much of a threat polearms posed to the brigandine covered core and the head with the helmet on (a slashing strike to the head with a polearm should provide enough percussive force to be pretty deadly even if it can't penetrate the helmet). Since I assume that your typical soldier is armed with either a polearm of some sort or a high poundage bow or crossbow then your typical soldier shouldn't have an absurd amount of difficulty killing another typical soldier. Overall pretty good protection. Not perfect by any means, and if I were a rich nobleman I would want more comprehensive protection. But if I was a commander I would feel pretty confident if my average soldier had about this level of protection.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

we have records from the kingdom of burgundy where heavy brigandines had to be tested and proof against windlass crossbows (~1500Ib crossbows given the period) edit: and lighter brigandines had to be proof against goat's foot leaver crossbows (~450-550Ib given the period)

[@LessAiredvanU]

If you have seen any Tod's Workshop videos, you will know that the heavier draw weights of crossbow does not mean faster projectiles - as steel bows do not move as fast as wood and do not have the length of travel. The simply can shoot heavier projectiles as the resistance of the weight of the projectile is less important. This is the major reason why the warbow was preferred in England, at the cost of greater requirement in practice.

[@mnk9073]

Amazing video as always. I once read that the marines of the italian thalassocracies had some sort of quick-release on their brigandines in case they find themselves going over board, is that true? Sadly I wasn't able to find the source again ever since... Also, wouldn't it make sense to additionally wax the fabric on the outside of the armour?

[@ambravirlebreton]

Really nice stuff. Sallet and brigandine are beautiful together ! I don't know if you also have a livery ?

[@bobrobinson1576]

You really look the part now. You're sure to give those froggies a good hiding when you get to Castillon.

[@earlyburg]

This was facinating. Thank you for making it.

[@evilwelshman]

I wonder how effective a brigandine would be without a full mail shirt; but instead just mail sleeves, for instance. As Matt rightly pointed out, wearing a brigandine AND a mail shirt can be quite heavy; and would be thus quite tiring when worn for long periods of time. Foregoing mail around the torso area could reduce that weight quite considerably; thereby allowing the soldier to potentially be lighter on their feet, and certainly be able to wear their armour for longer periods of time. Yes, it would offer less protection but fighting is not all that a soldier does. Does anyone know if such a thing (i.e. brigandine with only mail sleeves) was something that was done historically?

[@morriganmhor5078]

There is a nice video by Knyght Errand about mail sleeves/skirt and cuirass combination approx. 4 years old. Hopefully, it helps.

[@evilwelshman]

@@morriganmhor5078 Yeah. I saw that, and was wondering if anyone knows if soldiers did the same with brigandines as well, or were they just done by those wearing cuirasses.

[@shawn6860]

Also depends on the health and strength of the warrior and how long he wears it. If they were highly durable and in great shape it may not be as bad. That said it will b\affect them regardless. The addition of mail sleeves does make sense. though how protective they would be is what I would worry about.

[@dwaneanderson8039]

Another advantage would have been that if the plates were tinned, having mail under it might tend to wear off the tin. So eliminating the mail might enable the plates to last longer.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

we know that Burgundian brigandines came in 2 varieties (or rather there were 2 different minimum requirements), heavier brigandines had to be able to stop windlass crossbows [1500+Ib] and light brigandines had to stop leaver (presumably goat's foot leaver) crossbows [~550Ib]. and that makers had to leave a proof mark on the armour. so the heavier brigandines would likely protect a soldier from most blows to that area of their body (probably not against a charging lance blow, gunpowder weapon, or cranequin crossbows [2000+Ib])

[@Dleihs]

As far as rust protection goes. It is very easy to put a rust proof finish on metal plates during the forging process with any kind of oil, or bees wax. It is rubbed on while the metal is in the black heat(between 600 and 400 degrees Fahrenheit or 315 and 200 degrees Celsius) . It works the same as seasoning cast iron cookware. It is a surface protection and will wear off but will work very well for a long time.

[@morriganmhor5078]

Matt, could you make a brigandine - jack-of-plates comparison video?

[@gabem3251]

Now I wanna see Matt and some guys do reenactment battles.

[@Sk0lzky]

22:00 also less prone to rusting! This alone should make it the better choice for reenactors ;)

[@kleckerklotz9620]

The hardness of the material is not the only factor which helps to prevent penetration. Spacecraft, for example, are protected by so-called Whipple shields, as they are exposed to a constant bombardment of micrometeorites. A Whipple shield is nothing more than layers of metal sheets. There is always some air between the layers. This means that a micrometeorite gives off most of its energy to the top layer on impact and deforms it. In the second layer, the impact energy is drastically reduced. And with the third layer, it is almost zero. I guess all those layers of armour are compareable to this scenario. This means that more layers of armour allow for a lower quality of material. In addition, as you have already mentioned, softer materials can also provide good protection - especially against flat impact, like blunt weapons. They distribute the forces on the surface. The last important factor is shape. If the armour is designed to be rather curvy, the likelihood of a penetrating projectile or cut is drastically reduced. Which causes the impact to be deflected. In conclusion it's these factors: Amount of layers for reducing impact energy, hardness for pointy impact, softness for flat impact and shape for impact deflection.

[@edi9892]

Kingdom Come Deliverance has some wonderful examples of Brigandines and other armor and they actually stick to one time and area.

[@DCHZS]

Mordhau has both a brigandine and a corrazina

[@edi9892]

@@DCHZS Just that mordhau isn't very realistic. A lot of their armor is fantasy. I still like their brigandine though.

[@bloodypine22]

A really good chunk of the armour in KCD does not fit the period or area.

[@edi9892]

@@bloodypine22 could you please elaborate? The only thing I can think of right now are the import armors with their foreign names, which would be still historically plausible as armors were indeed exported.

[@bloodypine22]

@@edi9892 Many of the pieces are too old, too futuristic, out of place, or based on poorly made modern stuff. For example, the Aachen brigandine is completely out of place as its a later 15th century form of brigandine, and on the opposite side of the spectrum you have examples of Wisby coats of plates which were already outdated in the 1360s. Nevermind the early 15th century.

[@EldarKinSlayer]

Tinned steel wouldn't be heat treated. The tinning process would draw the temper back very near to non hardened. Your choice Hardened Steel or Rust Resistant?

[@positroll7870]

Agree with the loss of hardness problem. Though that could be acceptable in some less prominent places of the harness (like under your arms). But generally Id guess linseed oil was used quite often to avoid rusting. Much cheaper than beewax and widely available. Its still used in the present day for preserving wooden stocks of traditional firearms and in bicycle maintenance as a thread fixative, rust inhibitor and lubricant. "Linseed oil, also known as flaxseed oil or flax oil (in its edible form), is a colourless to yellowish oil obtained from the dried, ripened seeds of the flax plant (Linum usitatissimum). The oil is obtained by pressing, sometimes followed by solvent extraction. Linseed oil is a drying oil, meaning it can polymerize into a solid form. Owing to its polymer-forming properties, linseed oil can be used on its own or blended with combinations of other oils, resins or solvents as an impregnator, drying oil finish or varnish in wood finishing, as a pigment binder in oil paints, as a plasticizer and hardener in putty, and in the manufacture of linoleum." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linseed_oil

[@ChristianThePagan]

A brigandine with a full mail shirt is actually heavier than a breast & back plate and a light arm harness. Also, brigandines were often actually made from old breastplates. I remember reading about a surviving 15/16th century order from the Tower of London to send old obsolete breastplates to be cut up into brigs. Perhaps some of the round breasted ones were made from those 14th century bubble shaped breastplates?

[@valipunctro]

In my country we used to roof houses with tin plated mild steel and it lasted about 10 to 15 years until rust damaged it severely.

[@Zaeyrus]

In G.R.R. Martins 'A Song of Ice and Fire' (so not referencing TV show 'A Game of Thrones' :D ), Jamie Lannister, when he becomes the 'Lord Commander' of the Kingsguard travels to Riverlands to end remaining rebellions (this occurs in the 4th book, 'A Feast for Crows' so late, after the 'Red Wedding'). And GRRMartin specifically details that instead of using his typical 'shiny plate armour', he chooses to wear a plain, sturdy brigandine armour. Jamie Lannister's mission was to end last remaining rebellions and he, as a Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, has chosen appearance that will not 'offend' or better to say, not further provoke aggression. And he largely succeeds in this mission. Not saying that GRRMartin is an brigandine armour expert, but that is a very interesting perspective on how a nobleman would, or choose to, wear, in this case, a brigandine armour when his wealth, status and most importantly, his station demands that he wears 'the best of the best' for his protection.

[@boydgrandy5769]

Using bronze or brass rivets as fasteners for steel or iron plates will allow for galvanic corrosion to occur, most likely attacking the rivets themselves first. Galvanic corrosion is also the reason that "tinning" of iron and steel plates works so well; the tin or zinc plating becomes a sacrificial anode, and prevents the iron from reacting until the tinning cover has corroded away.

[@acebongboy]

Interesting video. I had a friend who made a brigandine back when we were in college in the late 80s. He later went on to get a Ph.D. and specialized in brigandine of all things.

[@aginorchuain77]

Nice video! I'd love to see more content about low to medium status soldiers of the 14th to 15th century. :)

[@subbss]

Matt looks really badass in that brigandine.

[@mattc4013]

Yay! Another video from Captain Context!

[@WolfKenneth]

Fun fact around 15 years ago in mid 00s in central Europe there was a move from plates to brigandines among historical reenactors simply because a lot of judges on tournaments judged also by hearing and with brigandines with thick padding you have almost no sound upon hit so this gave small advantage.

[@gwynbleidd1917]

this is such an awesome video, Matt! Great hema content as always! If I lived in London, I'd be dying to learn at your hema school.

[@aryafeydakin]

As soon as you go back to history, just forget about through temper, just think of case hardening and differential hardening. This treatment is often, if not always, lost to archeological records due to corrosion. We're talking about a few micrometer of material on the surface of the piece that was actually carburized or "steeled" by the mere process of forging it into a coal furnace and/or deliberately smearing some hardening compound like cow horn. Most agricultural tools until the 19th century had wrought iron body with a small mild-steel welded piece for the working edge/tip that would take both a through temper and a case-hardening temper. Little known fact, that wrought low carbon iron was rust resistant due to the high silica content that the low furnace iron making process imparted.

[@NoName-lo9ym]

Going to need some gauntlets next Matt!

[@roshee5573]

What is the comparison between brigandine and lamellar armours . I’d also like to see you do a review of lamellar as I don’t think you ever have . Thanks for all your hard work

[@l0rf]

From my purely amateur point of view, lamellar armor is connected to itself, each lamellar plate linking onto the others. Brigandines are connected to a cloth or leather "carrying system" and the plates are not connected to each other.

[@sawyere2496]

I love lamellar, it was quite effective armor but it had different downsides depending on design

[@camaradacomissario9641]

It's very good to know that in the West people like you still exist. I remember how once I was visiting the Hermitage with a group with different people, mostly from the West, our guides were a Russian couple. Every member suggested a room to visit and I suggested the Arms Room, full of full plate Italian and German Gothic armor, a true mastership! Russians did not say a word, some o' them got impressed even, but the German lady, who was a theater director got offended, since it's "too violent and there is no beauty in it". That was quite strange, specially from a German person.

[@Leifr57]

I really like that one,because short of money and deceived by all my trys on full plate,Ispent a lot to buy myself a late 15th brigandine 5 years ago,and still do battles and tournaments with it,of course just like you say,with chainmail underneath,lot of weight(certainly more than full plate)but such mobility!Full fights(except weapons are blunt)and no wound at all,I mean not even hematome(with chainmall,decent paded jacket etc!)was just worryed about the historical aspect of that,since YOU claim it was in use in the late 15th,I'm glad

[@heretyk_1337]

Regarding price of armor, and most people perspective- there are examples, that were surprising to some people, whose ideas come from video games, movies... In my country, at the beginning of history of our famous lancers(disregarding first phase, where there was no armor whatsoever)- Hungarians in service of our kings used mail shirt, with short sleeves, vambracers and turkish style helmet(open faced), and our noblemen emulated that. But after Battle of Seret, where Moldovan infantry really gave them what for with ranseurs, hussars started to use cuirasses... Yes, that mail shirt gave adequate defense against light arrows from composite bows, or slashing attacks, but any piercing attack was death to the rider But there was one more reason. Turned out that well made mail shirt cost at the time(mid XVIth century in my country) up to 9 florens. But sort of mid range cuirass was for about 1 floren... So cost effectivnes came into the play as well... I guess same thing happened with brigandine. There were really high end ones, which cost a lot and were really good at defending against certain types of attacks, but overall effectivness couldn't compare to cuirass... And i think after some time making one big sheet of steel was easier, than making a lot of small rings, or sticking a lot of small plates onto a piece of cloth. Not to even mention, that cuirass can be oiled or otherwise prevented from rusting after each use- brigandine, not so much... So, economy strikes again...

[@chrisball3778]

With Matt's comments about brigandines generally being more comfortable and easier to put on that plate cuirasses, its interesting that their use declined in favour of plate cuirasses in the 16th and 17th centuries. Even poorer soldiers tended to wear cheap, often mass-produced plate body armour, rather than mail or brigandine as time went on. Often this was 'munition armour' actually owned by the authorities and issued to soldiers when they were called up. This corresponded with the growing prevalence of firearms, and armour during this period increasingly tended to consist of smaller quantities, concentrated on the vital areas, and made thicker to better deflect bullets. Anyway, this leads to a few questions: 1) With poorer soldiers wearing plate cuirasses later, were there some designs that were more practical for the wearer to put on themselves? Or did poorer soldiers just have to help eachother get dressed? 2) How did brigandines fare against early firearms? Were they inherently more vulnerable to bullets than plate, or was it just that the construction methods more easily allowed plate cuirasses to be made thicker? (I suspect a bit of both). 3) With the difficulties involved in rust-proofing brigandines noted, how did this compare to plate harness? Was it easier or harder to rust-proof plate? This would be an important consideration on long campaigns. 4) How easy it was to repair brigandine compared to plate? On the one hand, a severely damaged component would be easier to remove and replace, on the other, its more complicated construction and reliance on a fabric superstructure would make it potentially more vulnerable to various types of damage. My suspicion is that in the long term, plate was more durable, which would have been seen as a plus by soldiers looking to make an expensive long-term investment.

[@Quozl11]

Being completely new to this whole area of arms and armour, and having only found you through Tod's Workshop, this is all totally fascinating. I'm loving the research and collaboration regarding seems and armour. As a question, related to the idea of steel and iron, when do we get the first references to steel rather than iron, and when was steel recognised as steel rather than iron? Coupled to that when is the first reference to tempered steel? How easy was it for the average blacksmith in the day to create a steel item, be it a weapon or armour? Maybe these are questions for Tod? However I'm truly fascinated everything you and Tod do and love the collaboration between you. Please keep it up. One day a few pints shall be bought by me for you both, lol.

[@LoriH2O]

The brig and mail looks awesome!

[@charlottewalnut3118]

You can add waterproofing to the wall that you’re wearing. I’m thinking of adding a waterproofing agent to the Leather on my armor, particularly snow seal as it works particularly well with Leather absorbing into it and making it much more resistant to water. I still wouldn’t exactly want to use it during the rain, but it would be much safer to do so at that point I would just want to dry it off afterwards.

[@kohinarec6580]

Brigandines are absolutely dashing!

[@IanSturrock]

Lovely brigandine! Surely there's another variable, too, of not wearing a mail hauberk between the foundation garment and the brigandine? Or perhaps bits of mail only -- sleeves plus skirt, or skirt plus the "crop top"/bolero style mail garment, that's basically sleeves connected across the upper back?

[@b.h.abbott-motley2427]

It seems odd that most 15th-century brigandines would be soft iron. *The Knight and the Blast Furnace* includes an example of a mid-14th-century coat-of-plates that's hardened to a considerable 390 VPH. Another one from a early 15th-century coat-of-plates was 276 VPH and thus 10% better than modern mild steel by Alan Williams's classification. Even the 15th-century mail he tested was better than wrought iron but somewhat worse than modern mild steel. If brigandines were made from slaggy wrought iron, Williams's * category, they would have to be rather thick and heavy to provide a lot of protection. I suspect they varied in quality, like other armor. It's worth noting that Humphrey Barwick didn't think much of brigandines at the end of the 16th century and gave an account of a lance piercing an equivalent armor front and back.

[@skepticalbadger]

@Ford It's the hardness that matters, whatever term Williams uses, look at his figures

[@humungus3]

Always appreciate the 'realness' of a man in full harness. Why did you decide to go with this style of armour Matt? Sorry if i missed a previous explanation.

[@medbyhi5114]

This brigandine is far more fansy than many others, where did you got this?

[@Lordstephen7813]

Yes very very useful, thanks, I feel ok now about getting copper rivet's for mine now. As you say there are over a thousand of them . Definitely using your vid. As reference material if that's ok ?

[@Bhartrampf]

You would think that they would have lacquered them, to prevent rust also, as well as tinning them to prevent rust. Nice video on this.

[@allenhilburn8686]

I realize this is a year old video, but I find it quite fascinating and informative. Would you consider doing a video on this set of kit from the ground up? By that I mean under garments out, including source information. If possible would you include options like play for arms and legs, helmet options, etc.

[@aliceakosota797]

In kingdom come i wear the brigandine and only wear mail around my neck with a gambeson i like to be as light weight as possible to outrun ambushes and not make lots of noise and be more blending in than a shiny Cuirass lol

[@ramiabiakar2391]

There's a noise and visibility advantage from that, but no weight advantage. If you want the most protection to go with the "light armor" perk you'll end up much heavier than in full plate armor.

[@CAepicreviews]

Hey matt, any chance we can get a video on one of my favorite medieval weapons; The "Goedendag" aka The Club Spear. I like your videos, keep up the good work.

[@joncrow3228]

With regard to sweat causing rust: it’s entirely possible to sweat through armor. I managed to sweat entirely through my body armor with plate nearly every day while serving in Iraq. It rusted the snaps on my ammo pouches and all other exposed metal rather quickly. During actual combat, the adrenaline rush left everything I was wearing thoroughly soaked in sweat in minutes. Even in the middle of a particularly cold winter. This is only a guess, but I suspect the cloth could have been oiled to protect the metal. It would have also shed rain water if the outer layer was oiled, so dual benefits.

[@mikewalrus4763]

Talking of rust and the mix of metals - steel, iron, brass, copper etc remember galvanic action- the flow of electrickery from those different metas. OK it may be small but over time it will happen. Especially on campaign day after day in rain and frequently sweating which you don't have the time or place to remove it all and dry it out frequently. Don't forget also that salt increases the flow of electrons fairly dramatically - OK maybe not as bad with a steel ship etc (brass propellor and shafts) but still over time it will happen

[@vladdrakul7851]

*I, the MSM, the fashion world and historical drama actors INSIST that Raphael (the 'Metatron') and Matt do a Renaissance armour 'Fashion Shoot'. Showing off their shiny, sharp brigandines. I can even see the music that the two of you could stride and rule the catwalk with. Play 'I'M TOO SEXY' by Right Said Fred. Matt already has the bald look for the mercenary professional while Raphael can give us the romantic Knight as his contrast in context. Who wins?? 'Beauty vs The Beast'! Imagine the drama! It would be fabulous!*

[@bambam-cm8we]

The point you made about the rivets being a copper/ bronze alloy makes sense to me. Do you think it also had something to do with maintenance? By That I mean, the removal and either reshape or replacement of individual plates. This to makes sense as the softer metal would allow this do be done more efficiently both in time and cost.

[@grantholmes5661]

I have a brigandine, and I really enjoy it. More flexible than a plate cuirass, as well as allow for bodyweight changes (fat/muscle). I think it looks nice as well.

[@artiomleoncenko2994]

The japanese used lacquer on there armor it protected the metal from rust is it possible that in medieval europe people used paint or something similar to protect there armor from rusting?

[@NikovK]

I wouldn't say you always require a servant to fasten up a brigandine with buckles in the back. You just require a fellow soldier with the same problem. Noblemen might consider it beneath themselves to help another into their armor (who goes first?) but two fellow campaigners likely don't have the same status questions among eachother.

[@pavise6333]

Shad has red, Skall has green, Metatron has blue, and you have black. A medieval power rangers in the making?

[@laurenceperkins7468]

In the case of maille armor modern mild still is probably a reasonable analogue for a top-quality, case-hardened original since the higher surface area to volume ratio means the added carbon will soak into more of the metal. What's hard to judge is the variation. Modern, machine-made rings or plates are far less likely to have random weak spots due to metal impurities or manufacturing error. And bronze rivets being weaker probably wouldn't be an issue since either metal is stronger than the cloth backing.

[@ericaugust1501]

Todd is soon to post a brigandine vs warbow level power arrows test. can't wait.

[@shawn6860]

Nice kit, Matt. I would think the variety of materials might also affect the coat. How protective would a Coat of Wood, stone or other odd materials be? Was there any historical use of non-steel plates? They had stone, wood and bone weaponry and armour too.

[@viabruxellensis8279]

Remark on Iron vs. Steel in medieval armors: Iron is softer, no question asked. But on the other hand, it is less brittle so it will "accompany" the incoming blow for a longer duration. Which in the end might result in a larger energy dissipation, hence a less dangerous blow to the wearer. I base this on experimental "crash test" that a French guy did on a historical mail. (sources below) To make a long story short: - he wanted a really high quality and high historicity mail from a craftman doing it with the full process as before (and with iron instead of steel) - the craftman was really slow at delivering so the guy looked at museums and collections auctions and found a historical one for "a fair price" - once purchased, he was "oh, great... wouldn't it be nice to test it against weapons?" - so he did, with a gambeson/aketon garment under it, attacked the whole with different sharp weapons, in thrusting: dagger, swords, spear and crossbow - he published the results, with observations, pics, etc. Conclusion: usually, the ring will distort but rarely snaps, providing a large kinetic energy dissipation, leading to a resulting piercing damage of a few millimeters through the mail+gambeson system (sometimes around 1cm if not a bit more), changing wounds the would go through a whole body into wounds that would be inconveniences, for sure, but mostly superficial ones The rings will be destroyed in the process but again, they did mail to improve survival rate during a war, not to be used again and again over 10 years of regular fights in reenactment, the requirements were not the same. Sources (in French, sorry): - Intro to the process and dagger test : www.guerriersma.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10334 - Swords test (an Albion and a Gael Fabre) : www.guerriersma.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10519 - Spear test : www.guerriersma.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10543 - Crossbow test : www.guerriersma.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10596 Hoping this will be useful to bring more insight for further testings with modern reconstructions of medieval protections

[@FraterMerovius]

I seem to recall Eric Schmid writing of much the same effects, noting the superiority of iron ringed mail, although I have long lost the link to the source material.

[@wargey3431]

Matt it’s interesting you talk about the flexibility of brigandine for defence being a bad thing against a lance I can understand this as it would likely buckle but against a weapon like a bill mace and maybe even an arrow that little bit of give in the armour can 1 prevent penetration (something very rigid is penetrated easier) and 2 and much more likely it would provide some cushioning to the blows due to the natural give in the armour without having so much give as to increase damage taken

[@wargey3431]

A further point to that Matt I suspect that Brigandine would have been waxed we have known for years that wax is waterproof I suspect a good soldier would wax and oil his plates and the wool in the same way you would oil a modern rifle As part of this Bronze would actually increase rusting Copper and iron react with each other and like other dissimilar metals it actually increases rusting at contact points

[@rcfokker1630]

Brass/copper rivets may not rust, but they will encourage corrosion on the steel/iron. This is owing to their being 'dissimilar' and facilitating a flow of electrons. Wrought iron has pretty decent corrosion-resistance. I believe that's because of the impurities which remain in the alloy. A modern mild steel has very few such impurities, and is more disposed to rust. AFAIK.

[@ColossalSwordFormAndTechnique]

I prefer splinted cuisses over plate cuisses. More flexibility in leg movements. And you should talk about tassets and faulds.

[@kensmith5694]

A pattern can also help for keeping track of who is who. You may also be able to mess with the enemy's perception a bit with the pattern

[@nickdougan394]

Matt, how easy would it have been to change the fabric when it got worn out? Would you have to have removed all the rivets and re-rivetted the plates to a new fabric? That must have taken almost as long as making new plates! Or were the rivets loose in the hole that went through the plates. If the latter, that might be another reason why bronze or brass was preferred - it'd have been easier to remove the heads and then melt them down again to reuse the metal.

[@TwinIonEngines]

So here's a question I can't find the answer for... If you had a knight or noble who wore a brigandine setup, would they wear a tabard/surcoat/waffenrock -over- the brigandine to showcase their Arms, have their Arms tailored directly on the brigandine, or simply showcase the main Arms tinctures via their arming doublet, chausses and brigandine but leave out any charges?

[@NephilBlade]

The armor's looking good!

[@NMMojavePoet]

Matt I've been meaning to ask you for some time, our friend Tobias Capwell years ago had a Brigandine plate combo. About a decade or longer (I know he sold it.) I'm working on a project of a placard plate combo with a Brigandine upper torso. Other than illuminated manuscripts do you have knowledge of this type of Armour arrangement. As an aside, many have opined it is leather covered plate with painted rivets. I personally don't.

[@oneshotme]

Enjoyed your video so I gave it a Thumbs Up

[@SuperFunkmachine]

The rivets are just there to hold the plates in place an spread the loads without tearing the fabric base.

[@MrMorgorth]

As for the rusting issue I believe they would have used a Wax on the material likely oil on the rivets as well kept the Plates oiled somewhat.

[@positroll7870]

Id guess linseed oil was used quite often. Much cheaper than beewax and widely available. Its still used in the present day for preserving wooden stocks of traditional firearms and in bicycle maintenance as a thread fixative, rust inhibitor and lubricant. "Linseed oil, also known as flaxseed oil or flax oil (in its edible form), is a colourless to yellowish oil obtained from the dried, ripened seeds of the flax plant (Linum usitatissimum). The oil is obtained by pressing, sometimes followed by solvent extraction. Linseed oil is a drying oil, meaning it can polymerize into a solid form. Owing to its polymer-forming properties, linseed oil can be used on its own or blended with combinations of other oils, resins or solvents as an impregnator, drying oil finish or varnish in wood finishing, as a pigment binder in oil paints, as a plasticizer and hardener in putty, and in the manufacture of linoleum." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linseed_oil

[@tiggytheimpaler5483]

About to start work on my own brig here in a few weeks and I got brass rivets (because I like the look over the steel rivets) and an armorer in my group said that he thinks that the reason brass and copper rivets were used was because they were sexy and because a copper rivets cost less than a hardened plate and he has had to replace plates So I think the small rivets were a mix of being garish and also just being a bit cheaper to repair and replace