Medigap Plan G vs Plan N Two Years Later

[@JohnsDeb]

Good info! I’m on Plan G. I do see a doctor more that 2 times a month. Medicare is so darn confusing & frustrating!

[@rickski3769]

hey ...y'all like me....i'm watching all these vids also.....so da*n confusing....hard to trust anyone, any company, or any agent !!

[@lizzy-wx4rx]

@@rickski3769 Please look for a SHIP counselor in your area. SHIP = Senior Health Insurance Program. It's a FREE service offered in every state. I'm training to be one right now. Most SHIP counselors are volunteers (that go through extensive training) and have NO financial incentive to recommend any plan. They just explain how it all works. (They can also help you choose or switch your Part D drug plan every fall, based on the prescription drugs you're currently taking.)

[@FoggyStillness]

Truly EXCELLENT information. I've been weighing Plans G and N for some time. These future price estimations are EXTREMELY helpful, including the information on historical premium increases for G vs. N. Thank you for taking the time to put this together and sharing it with us!

[@IwasRetired]

Glad it was helpful!

[@judymiller8206]

Can you recommend a medicare broker?That has the qualifications that you enumerated.In order to choose the right company to to switch from the medicare advantage to plan N?

[@shall5867]

Be careful with where you live as regards accepting this analysis as one size fits all, and for only 2 years of analysis. In most states, you choose your Plan G and the company for life. There are a few states where it is easier to change from say G to N without underwriting for pre-existing conditions, but not many. Right now in PA, I can get a Plan G vs Plan N for a premium differential of only $40 - that's 2 copays right there. And as he says, for him his copays don't equal the premium difference and it makes sense now. But if you cannot leave your plan N ever in your state, you could start needing to see a doctor more later. This is some good info, but there is no one size fits all.

[@IwasRetired]

@shall5867 but keep in mind that is twice a month. I’m not seeing dr that much!

[@AmethystWoman]

​@@IwasRetired not getting younger. What about MRI copays? When we retired chances are 99.9% that our health will go downhill and we could leave a mess for our spouse.

[@michaelellis6847]

Excellent, very thorough. My spread sheet is an old electric bill with a torn corner and some spaghetti sauce stain in the lower corner, but our numbers are the same. Thank you.

[@kathryncashner3294]

Your numbers worked great for you and the analysis is spot on. I went with G (could have chosen F) due to lower premiums that more than offset the deductible. I was the once a year doctor visit person ....until I was diagnosed with an advanced cancer about 18 months later. I honestly can't even answer what would have counted as a "doctor visit." I know that the doc came in during each chemo appointment and charged a visit. There were weekly doc visits during radiology as well as extra visits when complications popped up, so no doubt I used well more than my share of doc visits during treatment. Now, with an official status of "no evidence of disease," I'm still seeing at least a surgical oncologist and a medical oncologist every 3-6 months (depending on lab and imaging results), as well as any odd things that come up--that silly lesion that sent me to a dermatologist, the orthopedic visit when I injured my wrist.....Like you I'm a numbers nerd. In my case, the "break even point" between G and N is slightly less than 5 years. For that 4.8 years G was cheaper. Yes going forward, the higher premium increase with G bothers me. On the other hand, I don't know what my health status will look like in the future, and one serious diagnosis could totally change the analysis. I can't change it now, so it is all a "numbers game." Bottom line though--I retired earlier than some, so had to buy private insurance. Thanks to the "Unaffordable Care Act," my premiums went from $236 when I retired to $984 the year I qualified for Medicare, and I had increased the deductible to keep the cost lower. Plan G with supplement and drug plan is still far less than private insurance. Again, I've wondered long term as we have all paid into Medicare all those many high earning years, but those are gone now. I'd delighted to be paying less for Medicare than any sort of private coverage. Ultimately, you make your best guess and take your chances,

[@stevemaggs6781]

Absolutely! You illustrate the case for Plan N, as long as one doesn't need much medical care. However, as one ages, many can encounter a serious and prolonged illness, from which Plan G is better. Spreadsheet results are based on data points and assumptions, both of which are best guestimates.

[@Dbb277-2]

That Unaffordable Care Act gave my husband insurance when he wouldn’t have gotten it anyway else. Thank heavens for it. Your original policy didn’t meet the qualifications for you to keep it.

[@TomokoAbe_]

My Obamacare for 2025 is $875 a month PREMIUM with a maximum out-of-pocket of $6,500. My hospital bills alone are $6,500 in addition to maintaining $875 a month premiums. I'm looking forward to my Plan G. But my medical bills would be close to a million dollars over one year if I did not have Obamacare and saved me from certain bankruptcy though the medical bills still wiped out my 401K

[@kathryncashner3294]

@@TomokoAbe_ My Obamacare went to more than $1K per month in the year before I qualified for Medicare, and literally I used it for one doc visit per year and a mammogram. Medicare with a supplement is cheaper and the coverage is a lot better!

[@Dbb277-2]

@@TomokoAbe_ The great thing from what I understand is the first year you get on medigap you can get on any policy. Sorry you have had such struggles. Unfortunately your story is one of many.

[@TC-yi3ue]

ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS THAT SENIORS SHOULD BE SUBJECTED TO GOING THROUGH ALL THIS IN ORDER TO FIGURE OUT WHICH PLAN IS BEST

[@IwasRetired]

While I recommend doing your own due diligence, I close with "and seek out a professional, if you need one." You will likely be steered to Plan G or an Advantage plan. Consider the choices.

[@ThomasMackay-i8h]

@@TC-yi3ue Damn right it’s ridiculous.

[@joniboulware1436]

@TC-yi3ue What is the alternative? No choices? Highest priced plan for everyone or biggest deductible for everyone. You know it is coming. Spend a day educating yourself. How hard is that?

[@sallyhu5028]

​@joniboulware1436 How self-righteous. Maybe you should spend just 30 minutes and read up on how it's done ... say like in Canada. Standardized, streamlined, no gotchas with the myriads of alphabets and codes. The government uses its power to negotiate terms and pricing that benefit and protect its citizens. Medicare IS unnecessarily complicated and convoluted. It certainly is not using its power and numbers to go against big pharma and insurers to protect those who have worked hard and PAID into the system. The government is not doing senior Americans a favor. It's their money. Same goes for social security, which Republicans refer to as "entitlement" and regularly threaten to take it away. It's entitlement only to the extent the money belongs to those who have paid into it and they're entitled to get it back.

[@joniboulware1436]

@sallyhu5028 Again, a 65 year old, unless they are mentally incapacitated can read up on Medicare or seem the many sources of free help. Choices are worth it.

[@ssa8479]

Excellent analysis, thank you! Turning 65 this year but plan tpo keep working several years more. Don't plan to sign up for Medicare till I retire, but this is excellent information.

[@IwasRetired]

Thank you for watching!

[@ThomasMackay-i8h]

@@ssa8479 You have to sign up for Medicare now at age 65. Do it put it off.

[@chasa4347]

I went "n" as well, as my broker predicted the sicker (more costly) patients would choose plan 'g', raising its costs a little more. Also, from personal experience, if you go to the ER and are admitted inpatient, the $50 co-pay is waived. (I'd have rather paid the $50 than having dealt with pancreatitis.)

[@IwasRetired]

That's right. And hopefully, hospitalization is all behind you now! Enjoy your retirement!

[@Joyinmyheart66]

I was diagnosed with pancreatitis and discovered my weekly osteoporosis medication caused it. I quit taking and no more episodes. I have had 2 medical assistant tell me it has been none to create attacks

[@PLC808]

You had me with the spreadsheets. I love spreadsheets. Makes everything clearer to see. Great video. Thanks

[@IwasRetired]

Glad it was helpful!

[@RG-hf4et]

​@@IwasRetiredIt was VERY HELPFUL!! Thanks so much!

[@IsaacCheng8]

Good analysis! For OOP estimate, we should take health decline into account though because a typical cancer patient sees doctors more than twice a month, and cannot pass the medical underwriting for switching from Plan N to Plan G. Although a better insurance plan may cost more on average, it provides better protection when something really bad happens.

[@seagypsy2762]

Excellent point

[@Nancy-xb6wh]

It's not always about saving money

[@brin3m]

agree. we were surprised last year when both my husband and i were diagnosed with different cancers. so glad we are with plan G now. always plan for the worst and hope for the best

[@Dbb277-2]

This was awesome. I am on plan F for five years. It’s now $300 a month. I’m switching to G or N and I will most likely do N as I have been to a doctor only twice in five years. THANK YOU!

[@IwasRetired]

I wish you all the best in your transition!

[@BuzzRetirementGarage]

Very good info. Graphs and charts are excellent! We went N too. I think many on G were prodded by their agents.

[@IwasRetired]

Thanks, Buzz! Love your channel!

[@hopespringseternal2624]

Thank you! I appreciate all the work you put into this. I would make a small correction to your presentation: Some of us (not many, comparatively speaking) live in states where we can switch plans around our birthday and not have to go through medical underwriting. Living in California, I am one of those blessed ones and I plan to switch when my next birthday rolls around because my horrible medigap orovider (AARP, United Healthcare) raised my premiums by 11% this month!

[@MikeD_]

I believe that's the same in NY. I'm not eligible for Medicare until later this year so I'm currently in research mode, but I believe there are four states that allow customers to move between MA and Medigap plans without going through an underwriter. On the flip side, I suspect we pay significantly higher premiums for that capability.

[@hopespringseternal2624]

@@MikeD_ I was on MA at first. But then I started researching and I would NEVER choose MA now. Fortunately I was in my 6 month window where I could switch back to original Medicare. Please be careful. With MA you DO have to go through medical underwriting and have to get pre-authorization for many services. They often to not cover for cancer treatments, etc. You may save in the beginning, but that savings could cost you your life.When I wrote the above I was only writing about switching Medicare plans, not MA. Medicare Advantage plans are not Medicare. They have nothing to do with the government. Please let me know if you have any questions.

[@TC-yi3ue]

@@hopespringseternal2624 wow good to know! I am 65 and just getting ready to enroll in UHC through AARP!

[@californiadreamer5968]

Very helpful to hear from someone who’s tried it. I may switch in May, we have the birthday rule here in CA.

[@barrydraper]

Excellent statistical comparison! I did a lot of research & went with a broker as I turned 65 this year, and chose Plan N. Your video helps to validate that decision.

[@p.d.waltman9451]

I'm recent to Medicare Plan N - and I have found that not all doctors charge a co-pay. Two of the three doctors I have seen didn't even ask for one. So they can charge up to $20, but they don't always do so.

[@J_Neighbor]

I just started on N and was wondering about this. Are you sure you just haven’t seen a bill yet for the copay? I’ve seen videos talk about you being billed the copay after Medicare and your supplement pay the doctor, and then the doc bills the co-pay amount. Just curious…thanks!

[@Nancy-xb6wh]

It's not only doctors who can charge excess charges.

[@J_Neighbor]

@@Nancy-xb6wh - You’re right, but we were talking about doctor co-pays, not excess charges. Thanks for your input, though. I should be able to effectively avoid excess charges since all providers - doctors and facilities - can be looked up on Medicare.gov to see who will likely charge excess charges. I did this before I decided to go with N, and of all the doctors and facilities in my area, I only found ONE chiropractor in my area who can charge excess charges. Ironically, it is the chiropractor I have used for years - although very infrequently. I figure I’ll go to him once and see if he bills excess charges. I figure it’s worth the $10-$15 once to find out. If he does, lesson learned and I’ll move on to our secondary chiropractor (who does not charge excess charges.)

[@TacoTomtheBomb]

I just got billed for copays going back 15 months. They said they can bill up to 4 years later.

[@rgruenhaus]

Where?

[@billlock77]

Good video ! I been on plan N for 2 and a half years !! No price increase ! I live in Ohio and me and my wife pay $165 with the family discount. I know people that got plan G and got a 6% per year the last 2 years !

[@ziva1]

We moved to Ohio last year, keeping our plan N. No excess charges in Ohio!

[@rickski3769]

which company.... and are you happy

[@billlock77]

@@rickski3769 Continental Life ( Aetna ). Very happy !! I Had colon cancer and spent a month in the hospital !Had a lot of chomo too! Very little out of pocket .

[@billlock77]

@@rickski3769 Continental life ! Which is owned by (Aetna ) Very happy ! I had cancer and paid very little out of my pocket !

[@rgruenhaus]

My Florida Blue was $195 last year on Plan G and it went up to $215/month this year.

[@landctrain]

Excellent analysis. Also important to remember that there are a number of states like mine (Massachusetts) that under law are not allowed to charge excess charges so you don't have to worry about those in plan N. I think there are probably 10 or 12 states that are not allowed to charge excess charges.

[@door2416]

There are 8 states.

[@harrymyhero]

@@door2416 which are?

[@door2416]

@@harrymyhero Connecticut ,Massachusetts, Minnesota, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rode Island, Vermont.

[@robinwoodbury2563]

Thanks for sharing this informative video and brilliant analysis. Much appreciated!

[@IwasRetired]

Glad it was helpful!

[@robertmontgomery3892]

Bottom line: If you are really healthy and you lose your coverage under plan N then you will probably be okay. But if you ever develop any condition that puts you at higher risk then you will face underwrighting under plan N. On the other hand ... if you are covered under plan G and you lose your insurance you will be able to get insurance from another carrier w/o underwriting. So even if you are on your death bed you will still be able to get coverage while you will be w/o coverage if you decided to save a few bucks under plan N. So...bottom line...if you expect to remain healthy until your last day on this earth then go with plan N and save $40 a month, but if you are like most people and will encounter health challenges later then you just might be better off pay a little more per month for plan G.

[@loveyf853]

I NEVER had to be elevated with my N plan which I had 6 yrs already. So if I got a catastrophic illness plan N can drop me when it comes enrollment time? Say it ain’t so….I didn’t know that. Please clarify that.

[@emmelia-6068]

I'm not Robert and am not sure what he meant... I am new to this medicare stuff... but no, as long as you pay the premiums, your supplemental plan cannot drop you for health reasons. Only if the insurer discontinues th​e plan for everyone. @@loveyf853

[@shelly8361]

No. They can't drop you alone. The plan N would go out of business.

[@IwasRetired]

Once you have a Medigap policy, it remains in force as long as you pay the premium. It can never be cancelled on you for medical reasons. People joining the plan after their initial open enrollment can be asked medical questions but there is no underwriting during the initial enrollment run the six months after joining Medicare. People telling to buy G instead of N for this reason are trying to get you to enroll for the more expensive plan.

[@Dbb277-2]

@@IwasRetired. My understanding too is if one insurer closes down you can go to another without penalty?

[@johnscott2746]

Appreciate the confirmation of my decision. I started on Medicare two months ago and signed up for plan n due to the cost difference. I pay $141 for plan n, plan g was $210. I live in Florida and I get most of my medical care from the Indian health service at no cost to me.

[@futureaceone3971]

A couple points to add to your presentation. On plan N the $50.00 charge for an ER visit is waived if you are then admitted to the hospital. Also, the $20.00 charge for physician office visits is the maximum you will have to pay for routine care office visits. The average charge nationally for these visits is about $14.00. Note that if you need follow up office visits after a surgery or procedure there is no charge for those.

[@IwasRetired]

Clearing Up Some Questions about Medigap Plan N kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5auhJJ3hJh3ppI. Yes I cover these points here.

[@brin3m]

i like that you estimated higher for your possible year costs. my mom taught me to do that when i got married and was pregnant. she said always plan for the worst and hope for the best.

[@softwarephil1709]

You have much greater flexibility to choose a provider and facility with Medicare and medigap than with an Advantage plan.

[@WakeUpAmerican000s]

@softwarephil1709 -- I should hope you get greater flexibility in provider, facility, and location of where you have coverage given the very high cost of the Original Medicare plus Medigap Plan G or N, plus Part D insurance plus private dental insurance plus private vision-care insurance, not to mention the complexity of dealing with FIVE different "insurance" sources each and every year. I dislike trusting my healthcare entirely to any insurance company, but after eight years on an Advantage plan, I've paid $0 in premiums, and $3600 in copays / coinsurance instead of over $45,000 in premiums for the five different coverages purchased separately as I'd have to do with a Medigap Plan N approach.

[@kathleenweiss7777]

Thank you for sharing w/I trying to sell a service. You are a blessing.

[@jorasparents]

WOW. This is great. We'll be retiring in four years. I selfishly hope this video is updated annually to reflect potential changes. It's just so packed with helpful info that is UNDERSTANDABLE. THANK YOU!

[@IwasRetired]

Glad it was helpful!

[@charliehargrave7458]

My wife fought cancer 3 times before she died, never play Russian roulette with your Medicare to save 100 dollars a month. Mother nature has a lot of dirty tricks ahead.

[@gordonallen9095]

This was a very comprehensive and informative video that was easy to follow and understand unlike those done by so many underwriters and salesmen on KZbin that confuse me with too many technicalities.

[@IwasRetired]

Thanks for watching! Yep, I'm not selling, just sharing my own lessons learned. Glad you liked it.

[@SkySkier]

I'm turning 65 next month. I found that I can get Plan G cheaper than Plan N at least for the first year. In Calif we can change at our birthday without going though underwriting if you stay at the same plan level or lower. So it seem to make sense to get Plan G for me, at least for now.

[@kristentheologus-KTechnogal]

Similar experience, also in California. It does vary greatly by state. As he said, the provider matters greatly too. The insurer I had for my Plan G started raising premiums way more than the average in his chart so I was able to save almost 23% by switching insurers.

[@mimi1o8]

@@kristentheologus-KTechnogalI’m in California, I’m waiting my birthday to switch providers, the present one after my first year, has raised so much the price that I need to get a new one.

[@checkpointcharlie1788]

I thought we had only a six-month window - our initial enrollment period - to choose our supplemental plan, and that after that, the insurers could deny us due to possible health conditions or charge us way more. Do you mean that we can switch insurers of a Plan G or a Plan N, or whichever supplemental plan we have, and still be able to get the same rate we would have during our 'initial enrollment period'? (I'm in California also)

[@SkySkier]

@@checkpointcharlie1788 Research California Medigap Birthday Rule.

[@lyndayoung8761]

Rates go up with age and inflation so no you can't get a policy price guarantee, you will pay the rate the carrier quotes. A different carrier MAY have a lower premium. In CA up to 60 days after your birthday you can shop for a plan with the Same or Fewer benefits without underwriting. So if you have G you can go to N. But if you have N you can't go to G without underwriting. If you have no serious medical conditions you can change Anytime but your application will be underwritten.

[@susank.4778]

Your presentation was very thorough and informative. $12,000 is a lot to "save", but at the same time, $12,000 will not go very far when it comes to medical costs and expenses. I'm just entering Medicare and learning a lot and still feel things are quite murky because of so many possible outcomes we don't know about our future health. Everyone has a lot of different life situations and circumstances to work with and figure things out!

[@IwasRetired]

Thank you for watching. Absolutely it is a personal financial question. I view it as risk management. Because Plan N and Plan G are so close, I am calculating how much “savings” I’m comfortable in taking.

[@RG-hf4et]

You confirmed everything I thought I knew on G vs. N without me doing the math. THANK YOU!❤

[@ronedee]

Present state of health, and a Crystal Ball helps in decision making!

[@KMarik]

The crystal ball being the important one.

[@IwasRetired]

Depending on the state, you would need to go through underwriting even to change plans with the same carrier.

[@todddunn945]

That result is really dependent on your overall health situation. I have two chronic conditions that require a lot of doctor's visits (58 last year). The difference in 2024 between plan G and plan N where I live is a bit over $500, so I am ahead going with plan G. But each person's situation varies. My wife is similar, she has two issues and she sees her doctors 2-3 times a month. In her case, in a good year she would be $50 or so ahead with an N plan, but in a year on the other end of her typical spectrum she would be down by $250 or so with N instead of G. Also we both like not having to even think about copays. Also consider that your use of the healthcare system will likely be much less when you are young (65) and healthy than when you are older (75+) and less healthy.

[@debralamont1780]

What about hospital costs?????????????

[@IwasRetired]

@debralamont1780 Both Plan G and Plan N have equal Part A coverage, after the Part A deductible, Medigap pays the other 20% of hospital costs.

[@todddunn945]

@@debralamont1780 I am 100% covered with my plan G.

[@earlspiece9403]

Nice walkthrough. We are facing going on Medicare end of this year.

[@IwasRetired]

Thanks for watching! Be sure to watch the whole "Getting Ready for Medicare" playlist, which I did when I turned 65.

[@DC10418]

Outstanding analysis!! I was wondering if my Plan N choice back in 2022 was still the best choice and could not readily seem to find that information. Thank you so very much. I am dissatisfied with the 11.7% increase with UHC for Plan N monthly premiums in 2024, and when my 60-day open enrollment period starts on my birthday in July (allowable in CA), I’m switching to Mutual of Omaha.

[@IwasRetired]

Thanks for watching!

[@sct4040]

I am looking to quit UHC as well, raise from $215 to $240 in 2025.

[@DaveCLL]

You will be worse off with Mutual of Omaha. I've had them for the past five years and the average annual rate increase has been 15.9%. And there's a reason for this. It is because Mutual of Omaha engages in a practice of 'closing the books' on a group of enrollees. This effectively disconnects them from the new (and healthier) enrollees. The result is that the closed book enrollees are now left to grow old and less healthy. And their premiums skyrocket. This is one of the dirty secrets of the Medigap business and Mutual of Omaha is one of the worst offenders.

[@ItsMe-rr9nh]

UHC has the highest yearly premium increases across all plans, bad choice. Also, I am not interested in being squeezed to join AARP as well.

[@ItsMe-rr9nh]

Plan N for me in 6 months. I am leaning more towards BCBC as that was my employers insurance that was provided to me my whole career and they have been good to me. BCBS never played the “closed book” game either with medigap plans. (State Farm is also on my radar and they never as of now played the “closed book” game either.)

[@laurie6332]

Very helpful. I am just very afraid of unforseen health down falls and being on Plan N. It would end up costing way more, and they probably would not renew it. Fear of the unknown is really difficult to deal with. You did a really good job at making it all understandable. even better than all the Medicare brokers that have You Tubes and get too deep to understand. Thank you so much.

[@IwasRetired]

Thanks for watching!

[@nnonotnow]

You did a great job analyzing all the numbers involved in this so that's pretty impressive. I've had my plan g for 6 years now. It does see the rate increases. A couple things about plan g that I'm so glad I did. It. Is peace of mind. Eliminate the variables. Plan n has the excessive cost that you mentioned but you said that most doctors are still participating in Medicare. But that's a variable that can change and that's out of your control. Another thing I would say about plan n you know when you're 65 you're probably in pretty good shape but when you're 75 maybe some things have happened. If you want to change plans you have to go through underwriting. So if you have plan n and are finding you having more visits those kinds of things and want to switch to a different plan, it'll have to be underwritten based on your current health. I just like the freedom to know that I can go anywhere to any doctor without pre-authorization at any time in the United States and everything is covered. I might be paying the cost of a Netflix or dinner out more than plan n but I'm willing to do that. I enjoyed your program.

[@IwasRetired]

Thanks for watching! Keep in mind that switching from one Plan G to another will also go through underwriting. Goal is to pick right the first time and stick with it. Plan N will be right for me and a little cheaper.

[@ronaldmcgivney3012]

Hey Pal. You are really good at making it simple. I have Plan G now but I am going to switch to N shortly. Cheers

[@guitajose]

Wow! So informative! I'll be 65 in Dec and I've been trying to understand this whole Medicare thing for the last couple of months. I had kind of decided on Plan N, but your video convinced me that was the right decision! Thank you SO much for sharing! I'm also in NJ by the way.

[@IwasRetired]

Glad you appreciated it!

[@kurtc6302]

I’ve been hunting for this video for months thank you for making. It is helping in my decision-making.

[@IwasRetired]

Thanks for watching!

[@tomcorridan5236]

Wow..what a great explanation of the 2 plans..ty

[@IwasRetired]

Glad it was helpful!

[@jilianfreund7606]

A very informative video! Thank you for this. I have been stressing between Plan N or G

[@IwasRetired]

Thanks!

[@davidshort9439]

I am retiring in a year and was leaning to the plan G, but I am in very good health so maybe the plan N might be the better choice.

[@andrewlongo6]

Maybe N is good, but aging and doctor visits go hand in hand (most on medicare are seniors). Just one severe ailment will trigger many doctor/therapy visits. If someone had a preexisting condition, plan N is for No. But if you're as healthy as a horse ...

[@mamalovesthebeach437]

I have had Plan G for three years. In three years, I’ve been to the doctor three times because of a knee injury. I did do physical therapy, two rounds. So if I’m understanding this correctly with PT, you would pay a co-pay every session. Your explanation and comparison are excellent. I have a broker and she suggested to save money. The advantage plan because I never go to the doctor. But I’m just not comfortable with that choice. Plan N is something that was not ever brought up. I will be asking my broker why not. Thank you!

[@IwasRetired]

Your broker should have been aware of the Plan N and its options for you. You are right to be wary of Advantage plans but to correct you on plan N there are no copays for PT, just certain doctors!

[@mamalovesthebeach437]

@ thank you for your reply. I agree with regard to my broker. I will be having a conversation with her asking why plan N was not presented as an alternative.

[@davepetrozzi3217]

Thanks Jim... Great information. As I look at options for signing up this video will definitely help.

[@IwasRetired]

Very welcome

[@tomwestbrook]

I’m still confused what Medicare calls a n office visit. Been to various drs several times this past year but only paid copay once (to my Gp). So I think the copay is even less of a concern? I’m on plan N, btw.

[@IwasRetired]

Yes, view my follow-up on questions about Plan N. There are only specific codes that get the office copays, and treatment visits don’t count.

[@IwasRetired]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5auhJJ3hJh3ppI

[@Rixdog01]

Appreciate the work. Hard to make predictions about one's health needs. Glad this worked out for you. Plenty of other blogs on this comparison, many going the other way. It's like when to take social security in the first place. If you know when you are going to die, easy. This choice is right up there with stock market predictions. Take your best estimate and cross your fingers.

[@ScottPeterson-hm6vq]

You are awesome! Thanks for sharing these valuable insights. My mom is getting ready to retire.....she could certainly use some great advice from someone who has already been through this stuff.

[@IwasRetired]

You are so welcome!

[@jtk4189]

Great video. As an engineer (retired at 68), I love the graphs and spreadsheets!

[@IwasRetired]

Thanks!

[@sherrierosnick3926]

Thank you! You just backed up my decision and I told my husband he has one smart wife!

[@IwasRetired]

I’m sure he does!

[@kcrahmann7539]

I read that if you work for a company that has 20 or fewer employees, you are required to sign up for Medicare at age 65. In this scenario when you work for a small employer and dont sign up at age 65, Medicare will charge you a late enrollment premium penalty for Part B of 10% of the standard Part B premium for each 12 months of delay. This penalty is permanent and escalates over time. If you work for a company that has 21 employees or more they don't require you to sign up at age 65 and there isn't a late enrollment penalty. I found that interesting, I didn't realize that. So many rules.

[@IwasRetired]

@@kcrahmann7539 That is my understanding as well. Those who continue to work past age 65 should be very careful to ensure they have coverage that Medicare will recognize. Otherwise, they should use IEP to get coverage!

[@ShellyWest-d8x]

This was very helpful and brought out some things I had not thought of. Still a ways off from Medicare but gathering info now. Charts usually make my head spin, but I could easily follow your clear and logical explanation and conclusion. Thanks!

[@IwasRetired]

Thanks for watching!

[@sueharris6616]

Hello! And thank you for all your research and clarifying.

[@barryrobison2073]

Thank you!! Outstanding info and video!

[@chanphoieng1650]

I am lucky to get medicare indemnity supplement plan through employer which costs me $ 87 per month currently with 15$ office visit, $50 ER visit and 0$ annual deductible.

[@sct4040]

Excellent price, just for comparison I pay $215 for Plan N in NYC.

[@seagypsy2762]

Please clarify, once you are enrolled in plan N, then do you have to go through underwriting each year to remain in Plan N? And Plan G you don’t? Or is it automatic renewal for both plans once you are enrolled in either plan? Arizona here with Plan G $117 mo. with Plan N at $82. If I have to enroll every year for Plan N, I will stay with PlanG, if not, Plan N is a worthy consideration. Do you have to pay Plan N’s copay if the deductible has not yet been met?

[@IwasRetired]

You do not need underwriting unless you are switching plans or carriers. Pick a good national carrier and stick with it.

[@karltraveldude7817]

Well done thank you , this is a maze of issues !

[@danbro1970]

You have outstanding excel skills! 😃

[@JoelBanner-vi7cu]

Thank you for your analysis. The copays max out at $20. Copays can be less based on the Medicare payment to the doctor and the 20% you are obligated to pay.

[@IwasRetired]

Clearing Up Some Questions about Medigap Plan N kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5auhJJ3hJh3ppI. I cover this in a more recent video.

[@romeksypko6568]

Thank you very much for sharing with us. Stay safe

[@IwasRetired]

Glad you found it helpful!

[@DaveCLL]

I have Mutual of Omaha and they screwed me! They routinely "close their book", thus isolating policy holders into a dead pool. In five years, my Plan G supplement premiums have doubled. The annual average rate increase has been 15.9%. And because of health conditions, I won't be able to pass underwriting with a different carrier.

[@IwasRetired]

I keep hoping this is MOO Plan G and that Plan N will be different. You should also talk to your state insurance regulator to end such pratices.

[@LJ-jq8og]

Very well done... Thank you ! I know this sounds crazy but the thought of no co-pays and dealing with the damn receptionists is quite inviting too..

[@cobaltbroker]

Are there excess charges for outpatient diagnostics like MRIs and echocardiograms? I have those every year and don't want to pay excess charges on those.

[@IwasRetired]

@@cobaltbroker Plan N does not cover excess charges, but you can be assured you won’t get them by using Medicare providers who have promised to accept Medicare assignment. Nearly all providers do not charge excess charges.

[@sharontabor7718]

I haven't seen a doctor in 5 years other than a dentist and opthomogist - neither covered by Medicare or Medicare supplements. But their fees are still less than gambling with Medicare Advantage that is being canceled faster than you can say Gotcha.

[@IwasRetired]

OM + Medigap is the way to go. BTW, opthomologist is covered by Medicare, just not refraction. Optician is not.

[@MiracleFound]

I am struggling to decide what I need to do. I will remain on my husband's private insurance for at least the next 7 years. It's very confusing.

[@BitsyBee]

As long as you're covered by group health (20+ employees), you cannot enroll in Medicare. The good news is you can retain all the benefits of a first-time enrollee to Medicare until employment or group health coverage ends, EVEN IF you're past the traditional enrollment period for Medicare (the three months before and the three months after the month you turn 65)! A lot can change in 7 years. I'd wait til then to analyze plans. A good broker can help you, as well as the govt website for Medicare. As for me, I'm getting off my husband's insurance when I turn 65 because Medicare is cheaper than dependent coverage.

[@IwasRetired]

Please clarify that is Part B. You can enroll in Part A and you should coordinate with your employer health plan on coordinating benefits.

[@jimhoward1655]

Where is it written that plan N is not a guaranteed issue plan? 15:31 . I know that all plans are guaranteed issue if your just starting medicare. I would like to see where it says that plan G is a guaranteed issue plan ,where plan N is not in writing.I understand that unless your state has a waiver or a birthday or anniversary rule you can be subject to underwriting and answering health questions after you have been in medicare and wanting to change something ,but what your saying of plan G being guaranteed issue whereas plan N is not is something i haven't heard . Please lead me to where i can see this written out i don't want to overlook this .

[@IwasRetired]

"After your Medigap Open Enrollment Period ends, insurance companies don’t have to sell you a Medigap policy, unless you have Medigap protections, called "guaranteed issue rights." You’ll need to give the company proof of your situation. Learn more about guaranteed issue rights." Two clicks away, you'll find this page: www.medicare.gov/health-drug-plans/medigap/ready-to-buy And look for "What are guaranteed issue rights?" It will open a window that clearly states which policies will be available under guaranteed issue rights. Plan N is not one of them.

[@jimhoward1655]

So your saying if you miss the boat and don't enroll in a medigap policy on time the insurance co doesn't have to offer you a Plan N but they do have to offer you a Plan G?You stated that Plan G is a guaranteed issue but plan N isn't at time mark 15:31please clarify

[@jimhoward1655]

Ok i went to the link and read. It does say that if say you started with a medigap Plan say plan N and your company went bankrupt (most likely scenario for me) that you are guaranteed to be able to buy a Plan G like you stated and there is no N just like you said. This is confusing in the fact that your not guaranteed to go to another company and just buy another Plan N that you started with. So what if say you start with Plan N and your state has an anniversary rule where you can change companies without underwriting if you think that rates on your company has gotten too high. With an N plan this isn't a Guaranteed possibility so in essence with a Plan N your stuck without undergoing underwriting or another company can turn you down making your states anniversary rule null with a Plan N?

[@rmichael3339]

I did the same analysis when I chose N in 2021. Cheaper unless going to the doctor twice a month, and probably slower rate increase. My wife got Plan N in 2022. Even with a lot of specialist visits last year after a hospital stay, we were still ahead.

[@Charlie9165]

Good study, however your comparison of costs between Plans N and G are very different from other areas of the country. In some areas, the monthly difference is half of what it is in your area. So in that case, the result would be different. Also, yes i agree most doctors accept, and plan to continue accepting Medicare assignment, however we have seen constant changes to Medicare and there is no guarantee that most will accept assignment 5 or 10 years from now and with the smaller difference in premiums between N and G in other areas, G can be a good choice also. Thanks for the video.

[@IwasRetired]

Thanks for watching and your comment. Absolutely, where you live matters! As far as Medicare assignment is concerned, yes, if Medicare were to change payments to doctors, there might be an uptick in percentage not taking assignment. But keep in mind, federal law only allows them to charge an additional 15% above the approved amount, which limits its impact to your wallet. And you'll always be able to avoid that by checking first. Plan G might be a good plan for some, but I think carrier matters more. Do your due diligence when first selecting your carrier and shop later with underwriting to ensure you get the best prices for as long as you can.

[@johnandsharon5785]

Besides the copays, the high number of healthier people keep the costs down. That can easily change in the future as Plan G becomes too costly and new members join Plan N at a higher rate.

[@rgruenhaus]

Plan F was going up $10-20 a month each year I had it. The Florida Blue agent said it kept going up because they were trying to ween people off Plan F, so he moved me to Plan G even though I am not guaranteed that the premium won't go up enough to make it cost as much as Plan F and I will still have to pay the $235 deductible each year. My Florida Blue premium on Plan G is $215/month

[@JackieALic]

Hello. Are you satisfied with Florida Blue? Do they provide good service to you? I’m deciding between UnitedHealthcare Medigap and Florida Blue. Thank you.

[@rgruenhaus]

@jackielic9161 as for coverage they covered all things my doctor prescribed and still needed them to pay what was over the 80%, but the Plan G doesn't cover my deductible, which right now is about $235/yr. The thing that bothers me is that they were $195/month last year and went up to $215 this year. I don't know where they think a person only living on Social Security can get $20 more to pay them. My doctor even changed from every 3 months to every 6 months so I'm not looked at as often for more money.

[@davidfolts5893]

Thanks, Jim. The decision will look better and better to your Future Self.

[@IwasRetired]

Thanks!

[@artimuscoffee8921]

I just went with N and have not seen a doctor yet

[@Trudysaccount]

I used a broker! He signed me up for Medicare and he got it wrong!! Thankfully I was still in the window to change it. It was so unnerving😮

[@moneymotivated7010]

Thank you for your advice 😊

[@IwasRetired]

You’re welcome 😊

[@susieclues]

Exactly what I was looking for. Excellent job!

[@IwasRetired]

Thanks for watching!

[@dougtrvl888]

Great analysis I also here that Primary care doctors prefer plan N patients ?

[@IwasRetired]

Thanks for watching!

[@yacaattwood2421]

I would appreciate a video that SPECIFICALLY discusses Plan N, Plan G and _______CANCER____ - Do monthly infusions of chemotherapy/immunotherapy count as office visits or are they subject to excess charges? - If you see an Oncology Physician Assistant or Oncology Nurse Practitioner, is that billed the same as seeing an oncologist? - Is there an extra charge for CT and PET Scans?

[@IwasRetired]

Thank you for watching. I would urge you to talk to your broker if you as the just starting Medicare. Plan G might be better. But also don’t be afraid of Plan N. Therapeutic sessions, infusions etc would likely not trigger the office copays. Only office visits for diagnosis. If Medicare covers medically required test, then Medigap will cover it.

[@craigkelley4301]

I think they maybe adding more copays over time. I just heard that tellidoc maybe be a copay in the future and also urgent care maybe a copay. The local Care One urgent care just started listing their doctors as primary care doctors on the website. Does not seem fair to ask people to pick a plan, then change fees once people are locked into a Supplement. Seems they should have another open enrollment period. But it is government.

[@IwasRetired]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5auhJJ3hJh3ppI I covered some of that in this recent video. It will still be same Medicare activities, but they are now letting televisits and urgent care to use some of the primary doctor codes. Still, you would need about two dozen copays a year to catch up to Plan G's higher premiums.

[@pompanobeachclub]

Great information. In my area, two good companies offering the lowest priced plan N are Mutual of Omaha for $84.44 and AARP for $86.68. Plan G is about $42.00 higher. I heard AARP has some of the lowest annual increases but does have a diminishing discount over time. Tough decision for me: Mutual of Omaha or AARP? Thank you.

[@IwasRetired]

I used Boomer Benefits broker advice to make the call for me. Also look at household discounts if married. Or talk to your state’s SHIP office. Do projected costs for next few years and go with a decision that looks good for you.

[@rosemarybedosky146]

Those rates are extremely good. Where do you live? In SWFL rates would be about 2x those rates.

[@stanley8574]

Mine was 86.something also for N at 65 but I sure it go up over time. I know Seniors that because of financial issues had to go from regular Medicare to advantage in later years. I hope the lower N cost will allow me to stay with traditional Medicare even if I live to a 100.

[@cpn6464]

Maybe I missed it, but I did not hear you say that there are no co-pays until you have reached the deductible, and the ER co-pay is waived if you are admitted into the hospital. I am 73 and have been on Plan F with UHC since 2016. 2024 premium is going up to $275/month from $261.75. I just passed medical underwriting and was issued a policy for Plan N with Cigna for $169/month (preferred rate) starting in 2024. That's a savings of $106/month, subtract $20/month to cover the deductible and another $20/month for a possible 12 office visits (won't reach that) and I will save $66/month or $792 per year. I'm not factoring in ER visits. I did a quick search for past rates for Plan N with Cigna and found that according to my state's website the premium hasn't change since 2021 (that's as far back as I could go). The switch was a no brainer for me.

[@IwasRetired]

Congratulations on shopping for your best option! Yeah there are no copays while you pay the deductible. Nice of them, no?

[@Cali-Girl]

The thing to understand is as people get older, even healthy people, have increasing medical problems and require more doctor and ER visits per year so Plan N co-pays may equalize the annual costs with premiums.

[@IwasRetired]

Depending on the state, the difference between Plan G and Plan N is large enough to allow up to 24 visits to doctors a year and still come out ahead. That plus the potential for more modest rate hikes for a healthier risk pool over time. Those insured by Plan G and Plan N will both see premiums increase with age and inflation, but the copays will never be the cause for concern when comparing Plan G and Plan N, unless you are see a lot of doctors!

[@shirleychan1102]

​pm

[@anthonymedeck7081]

Just because you don’t use ER visits, skews the data. Wife had 4 ER visits last year for extreme headaches, getting CAT and MRI scans each time. As ya get older ER visiting definitely increases.

[@IwasRetired]

Yes, that many ER visits will tilt toward Plan G. But in NJ I use urgent care and avoid ER and the two hour wait for care.

[@tomrobertson3236]

I year at HD g. Will give you the annual deductible Im in WA, a state with perpetual enrollment, so no problem switching to another plan

[@IwasRetired]

See my original G HD, G or N video. If you are very healthy, HD plans work. But I'm more comfortable with the modest copays of Plan N. Plus they are hard-coded. The G HD deductible goes up with inflation every year.

[@scottyboy60098]

Great video with lots of good information thank you

[@IwasRetired]

Thanks for watching!

[@kenpace3768]

About to sign up for Medicare this year. If i go with a specific carrier for Plan G and then I want to change carriers three years in… could they medically underwrite and deny me?

[@rubybanuelos3634]

I’ve had Advantage plan for more than 3yrs and, I realized I don’t like it. I have very limited choices for Dr.s.

[@IwasRetired]

One of the reasons I don't like Medicare Advantage. The limited network. I also don't like the low premium cost (sometimes near zero) but high cost sharing with deductibles and copays when you need to use medical care. You could consult a Medigap broker and see if you have any way of passing underwriting.

[@kizziah7777]

The good thing about copays on N is it pays 100% if you use a Jack n the box medical facility instead of your doctor and 100% ER visit, if you are admitted.

[@IwasRetired]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5auhJJ3hJh3ppI See this later video, where I explain that in some states and some Urgent Care chains, they are beginning to use the office codes that will require up to $20 copay. You are right that the ER copay is waived if you are admitted.

[@xlavahott4547]

It would seem to me that the rate increases for Plan G are a result of the number/size of claims being paid by the carrier, which means those with Plan G are using medical services more than those with Plan N and/or the services being used by Plan N participants are not being covered by their plan.

[@IwasRetired]

That’s the principle of risk pools.

[@nunyabeezwacks1408]

Yep, Plan N is great, if you're healthy, but not so much if you're seeing several specialists and have a lot more than 25 dr visits in one year.

[@MaryBethMcCoy]

@@nunyabeezwacks1408 That is why the recommendation is to go with Plan G if you expect to have many doctor visits throughout the year.

[@LouisLang-u8g]

In Florida 2025 part N starts at 181.00 part G is around 250 for the lowest . Alot of Floridians have no choice but a Advantage plan at least in my area Advantage plans r decent .

[@78cheerio]

Excellent, thank you

[@IwasRetired]

Thanks! Be sure to see my most recent video, updating Plan N after three years!

[@78cheerio]

@ thanks. I’m a first timer here. Going with N. I sign up tomorrow.

[@ambarpurohit8935]

thank you sir for your advice love you

[@wmf1595]

I'm 70 yrs old and on plan N. When I was looking at plans it turned out I was eligible for plan F even though it was phased out. While working with an agent/consultant I decided to go with plan N, as I wasn't seeing a doctor that often. Since then it turns out I'm seeing doctors more than I had thought I would and I probably would be better off with plan G - although it would be close. I haven't followed up since I originally signed up. Do you know if it's possible to change from a plan N to G without going through underwriting. (I live in Ohio - I mentioned that because I recall seeing that some states have different rules in regards to changing the supplement plans.)

[@IwasRetired]

I'd refer you to a broker, like Boomer Benefits. for the best read on what is possible in your state, in your health. Only a few states allow switching without underwriting. But I've read that underwriting is not a foregone conclusion of "uninsurable." I will say that you need to see a lot of doctors to make up the difference between Plan N and Plan G in most areas.

[@wmf1595]

@@IwasRetired Boomer benefits is the broker that I used when I originally signed up. I haven't done a in-depth calculation, but as I said I think plan G might be slightly better, but it would be close.

[@JohnnyK60]

When is the co-pay paid exactly? Does the office know the exact number at the visit, or billed later? I'd hate to pay $20 up front and have to chase down small refunds later if necessary. Nearly half of Excess Charge liability possibilities are mental health therapy situations.

[@IwasRetired]

It is usually billed after Medicare and Medigap have paid their portions.

[@MichaelC-u9k]

I'm 64 and trying to educate myself. I was all in on plan N until the end of the video when you said that the plan was not guaranteed re-enrollment and that you would have to go through medical underwriting. Of course, I'll check this out with broker, but my initial thought was: do I want to have the chance of being rejected in the back of my mind, each year as I get older and less healthy. Did I miss something? Your thought?

[@IwasRetired]

@@MichaelC-u9k it is guaranteed issue during your Initial Enrollment Period but if you try to join later, you would go through medical underwriting. Plan N is not a guaranteed right plan later, as Plan G is but those are exceptions that all people who lose their plans and have the right to select a new one. Theory is that those who cannot pass medical underwriting would go with Plan G and over time Plan N has a healthier risk pool. But rest assured. Once you select Plan N at the start, you cannot be cancelled or be required to go through medical underwriting in the future. Pay your premiums and it is guaranteed renewed

[@MichaelC-u9k]

@@IwasRetired Thanks for the clarification - there is a lot to consider!

[@susankovach8927]

Thank you for simplifying this for us. Hiw do you find a broker?

[@IwasRetired]

It depends. I chose Boomer Benefits, a national broker that represents many Medicare options. In case we move, I will look to them to help ensure smooth transition to the same insurer with new rates or shop for another option. If you are not planning to move, look at regional specialists as well. Note, many of the largest brokers have dedicated service centers with brokers who know their states. I would choose a regional broker that specializes in Medicare plans, not a multi-line insurer. Working directly with a Blue insurer is another option.

[@divermike8943]

15:26 If you choose plan N in the first 6 months you get guarantee issue. But will you be subject to underwriting every year after that? ???

[@IwasRetired]

No! Once you have a supplemental Medigap plan, it is guaranteed renewal each year. You would likely need to go through medical underwriting if you want to change Medigap plans. But if you select the right one, you keep it as long as you pay the premiums.

[@divermike8943]

@IwasRetired Thank you for that answer. I do worry about pre-existing conditions. I was once turned down in California in my 30s because of a heart arrhythmia I still have even though I was and am asymptomatic.

[@divermike8943]

@IwasRetired Two more questions. 1. If you change states or coverage areas and MUST change your plan N do you need to go through underwriting? 2. What if you just choose a different Plan N when you are not forced to?

[@IwasRetired]

I would talk to a national Medicare broker, like Boomer Benefits, and choose an insurance company that is in most states. That’s what I did. If you move, you keep the same plan and pay the premiums charged in the new state. There are guaranteed issue rights if your company cannot cover you. And the broker can assist with that.

[@constancecampbell4610]

Thank you.

[@IwasRetired]

Thank you for watching!

[@aliekatsmom]

When I became disabled and got my Medicare ABSOLUTELY NOTHING EXPLAINED TO ME. I git on Medicare Advantage and been on it for 9 years and having to go through underwriting with RA. Waiting for underwriting and Waiting for there decision. 😭

[@Colt-ii4qn]

Advantage plan if you will never get sick because your are superhuman or if you’re just a regular human that has problems as they get older Plan G . Nobody’s talking me out of my plan G 😡

[@sct4040]

I am on Plan N since Nov 2023, I find that it hardly pay for anything. So far, they paid my gynecologist 0.31 cents, I paid $19. My PCP and the bloodwork wasn’t paid at all by Medicare nor Plan N. Will be $1k out of pocket. I really don’t understand how Medicare expect my PCP to have clairvoyance. No bloodwork? Soon, I will be needing PT, I fear the bill.

[@IwasRetired]

Check to see if PCP coded bloodwork correctly. I have Boomer Benefits and that is their specialty. Also PT has no copay on Plan N.

[@stanley8574]

Yeah something is wrong here, after your deductible Medicare should pay their part. If Medicare does not pay then no supplement is going to pay either. Make sure you are on regular Medicare and not advantage. If on regular contact your doctors, either they are coding it right or maybe they stop taking medicare.

[@philesq]

Choosing between Plan G and N is a no-brainer when looking at co-pays. I'm disappointed that your video doesn't discuss the excess charges which I don't know anything about. It is because of my fear of excess charges that I chose Plan G. I don't know how you can get Plan G in New Jersey for $153 per month! In New York on Long Island I have Plan G through AARP for $308 per month and it's going to $328 per month next January. Additionally, it doesn't seem to be related to age because my stepmother's premium is the same and she is 15 years older than me.

[@IwasRetired]

I address excess charges at kzbin.info/www/bejne/fYOvmJauiap-qZYsi=cd4DR8aplnTWbJ8y&t=240. the 4-minute mark. New York will have much higher rates because of insurance regulations in that state vs. NJ. And if I remember right, AARP plans are community rated. Everyone will get the same rates, which will go up by inflation, and most plans are attained age, which means that premiums go up with age and inflation.

[@JandCJordan]

Great analysis and communication. What do you do about dental, vision, hearing, if anything?

[@IwasRetired]

@@JandCJordan thanks for watching! I self insure dental and vision. Don’t need hearing aids yet.

[@newengland8126]

Most doctors charge less than $20 and many charge nothing.

[@jenniferlee7167]

Where I live in the DC metro area, the co-pays are always $20.00 or the most they can get.

[@IwasRetired]

Near Philly in NJ and I do sometimes get billed $19.95.😒

[@anitablumhardt75]

Love your video! You do a great job explaining the plans.

[@IwasRetired]

Thanks for watching!