Medium VS Large Mountain Bikes! Is Bigger Always Better?

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MGM ALTERNATIVE is made up of Miranda (M)iller, Remi (G)auvin and Jesse (M)elamed.
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[@rstrakovsky]

Shout out to all the 5'10" people out there forever stuck between sizes.

[@barrysidings615]

Thanks brother 🤘

[@MGMAlternative]

Not forever! Bike sizes keep getting bigger so soon enough we will be in the right zone!

[@bigmac1613]

Can I get an amen?!!!!

[@GeorgeLoch]

5'10" then add short legs and a long torso. Nothing ever fits; pants, shorts, or bikes.

[@nickwilson4584]

Which is a bit bizarre considering tha 5'10 is bang on the most common height for a caucasian male...you'd think manufacturers would have us 5'10ers bang in the middle of a size range! Great video once again Remy!

[@skipdoyle6774]

5'9" and purchased a L as a novice. Handled well, but seat tube was too long -- okay in the store, but not the trail. All subsequent bike purchases have been M: more responsive, less weight. Important since I ride gnarly, knurly, undulating trails and not smooth downhills. Recently went from 27.5 to 29 with a similar experience: does seem to glide over obstacles better but feels a bit sluggish in tight turns.

[@Aaronime]

I appreciate his comments on the ride, It helps being similar height and build as him!

[@MGMAlternative]

We are here to do the hard testing for you!

[@timecost]

I am 5'11" and i have a large bike with a top length 645mm and the reach = 571mm. My reach is 550 therefore i felt stretched out on the L which is close to extra large territory. I shorten the stem from 45mm to 35 and move the saddle forward and its a little better its now 559mm reach. I bought a medium and right out the box it felt perfect. It has 620mm top tube and the reach is about 550mm without adjustments. I ride them back to back and could not notice any difference even though the M feels a bit easier to maneuver.

[@ridermtb]

Been having the same debate for two seasons, I echo the extra effort or takes to weight the front on a large. Less forward /rewarded movement seems to help maintain more consistent traction and might help keep you less fatigued over long runs and long days. Keep doing more vids like this

[@blakelynton7072]

how tall are you

[@ridermtb]

176cm

[@khai6101]

Love it! I suspect that on a long/fast track like the Top of the World to base at the Whistler EWS the large would be a better choice - but for really tight twisty tracks it makes sense that the med is more maneuverable, and thus quicker. For those of us with *slightly* less skill - and particularly because I don't race, I'll skew towards the "comfy/safe/relaxed" sizing option and give up a bit on the overall speed/quickness in the corners.

[@MGMAlternative]

We would agree. Is all out speed isnt the goal the bike that makes you feel safe is important! For us speed is top priority!

[@bryndrew]

I might not be giving MG enough credit, but the level of science in this video smells of Jesse.... Nice work!

[@MGMAlternative]

haha just wait for future videos, this isn't even the worst of it.

[@markgeard2145]

Loving the videos !! keep em coming ! I'm the same height and could ride a large, and agree they are more roomy and comfy , but 99% on a Medium.

[@bikedude019]

As mentionned, bike sizes should be determined in regards of trails and terrains. Obviously, the picked course for this test was for a medium. Repeat the same test in A-Line. I’m curious to see the results. For most riders its about comfort, for racers its about milliseconds.

[@BrettSampson]

Is this channel providing the best mtb content on KZbin? There’s an argument for sure!

[@MGMAlternative]

We're doing our best!

[@erinb4919]

Cool video. As you said, maybe a straighter, steeper track would favour the large. Need a bike quiver ;). I am reminded of the Enduro mag test/ review of bikes last year, they had similar findings of speed on the medium vs large yeti sb150.

[@sryforpartiing]

Pretty impressive that your fastest run ended up being the one with a small hickup. Good idea for a video !

[@MGMAlternative]

Small hiccup on a short track. Though for sure it was slower!

[@andyfromthetrailside9496]

Very interesting. In 2018 I went from a Size Large Norco Range to a Size XL RM Slayer. Ok, the bikes changed quite a bit in those three years. But you summed up quite nicely in words what I felt when swapping bikes. I couldn´t have described it that way. I might just bookmark this video and send it to friends when we discuss bike sizes and what different sizes do. A friend of mine is thinking of getting a new bike and he also is inbetween sizes. This might make it easier for him to make a decision.

[@pedroamorim892]

Can we have a coil vs air shock?! Maybe mullet vs full 29 as well

[@MGMAlternative]

Ohh keep your eyes on this space...

[@redlancer7263]

Doing my first enduro race on a HT!!! So pumped

[@MGMAlternative]

Pick the smooth lines!

[@stevemcfate1961]

5'9 170 lbs and always have preferred a Large, i'm 62 now and still prefer a Large

[@TFritz82]

This is where I puzzle myself...at 5'10'' with a normal-ish 31" inseam, I'm in that zone where I could stay large or size down to medium. I'm planning my next frame build for later this season or so and am tempted to move to a M...many of the trails and races here locally seem like they'd lend themselves to it. I also make it to the park 10 times or so a year so there's that. It's my main ONE bike to do it all - enduro, park, trails/fun riding so I have to make the purchase $$ count!

[@slimthungc]

I'm 5'10" 32" inseam.. I prefer M for flickability.

[@thomasshaffer5901]

Interesting video, entertaining as always. Any reason you're using a steel spring vs the Fox SLS?

[@MGMAlternative]

I just didnt have the proper rate in an SLS at the time

[@Soso64bit]

I have a large Slayer (29er) at 5'10, and I feel like it's a bit roomy for sure. More cumbersome in general, but feels planted and composed on rougher, more straight tracks. I came from a size large 2017 Patrol 27.5 bike and it's substantially longer than that bike (both reach and wheelbase), but I felt really comfortable on the Patrol. I wonder if the medium Slayer would be better for me...

[@remithesemi]

The Altitude is just a touch bigger than the large Slayer. I think that you would find the medium Slayer just a bit small! You are bang on with that Large!

[@alang253]

Did you experiment with chainstay length? I'm 5'11" tall, 6'3.5" reach, 36" inseam, TINY torso. I demo'ed a new Large instinct with very similar geo and same travel numbers and the major difference was 1° steeper HA (ride 9 was in steep mode), and 436 CS vs 445 on my current bike. Night and day difference- the shorter chain stay felt so much more balanced and controllable for me- though the quicker steering probably helped.

[@MGMAlternative]

Interesting. I prefer the longer chainstays myself!

[@bschmu]

I bought a size Large altitude last year. Now I know why I’m so slow. And I thought it was just skill level.

[@MGMAlternative]

Could be due to tire pressure...or maybe volume spacers.

[@SourCrouter]

yeah it might not be the size :P

[@behroozcharmchi6941]

Probably wouldn’t have slid out in the last run if you did the cornering video properly😂

[@MGMAlternative]

oohhhhh burn!

[@hpjbean5312]

Great video, very interesting. I'm wondering, what are the settings on your Ride9? Do you have the same Slayer chip as Jesse? I'm just interested to see shat setting you use for al the climbing and descending.

[@MGMAlternative]

Position 3 generally.

[@rossymcg_mtb_and_ski]

a question you tried the large mullet style? if not why not?

[@matteomasini1599]

which stem length are u using, same length for both frames ?

[@tdfh1]

Interesting video! It sounded like the main finding was that the medium is marginally better than the large (~2% faster) on the test track with some sampling error. For pros like you guys I understand how that 2% difference matters, but I'm curious what you think the takeaway is for the recreational rider. I know some people (myself included) agonize about sizing, but it sounds like the actual difference in performance is going to be small compared to the gains I would get from just getting better at cornering. Are we worrying too much about our gear? I'm going to do a bit of speculation: With mountain biking there are so many parameters to optimize, but I wonder how many of them actually result in an across the board improvement in performance. Wheel base seems like a big one, and so does center of gravity and having suspension settings in the right ballpark, but I wonder about some of the smaller stuff (BB height, bar width, etc.). With motorsports like moto GP or motocross, the weight of the rider makes up a smaller portion of the total system mass, so suspension and geometry have a greater effect on the overall performance. But with mountain biking the position and behaviour of the rider has a bigger effect, such that differences in frame geometry and suspension characteristics can be compensated for by the rider. All this complexity must make it really difficult to have firm opinions on what actually makes a mountain bike faster.

[@MGMAlternative]

I would say a lot of what makes biking fun is being able to nerd out and have so much tech to mess around with! Bikes are so good these days you could pick almost any one and have an absolute blast on it. But a lot of the people we know love going into the finer details of setup just as much as we do.

[@JesseMelamedMTB]

I would also argue that motors in those other sports can compensate for poor geo and things like that. That's why timing is important, to test what is actually faster rather than what feels better.

[@hobmarg]

What's the test trail? Looks dope.

[@patryka11]

Really depend on body. I am between sizes but I have very long legs and short torso and for me bigger is better. Especially in the corners I feel like I have bars near my hipps and no room. I think it is all very personal. And also depending on brand. XL reach of Rocky Mauntain Altitude is 505, and for example Nukeproof is 515 and Kona Process X is 525 and Nicolai is 535. Also I think about one more factor - maybe I could be faster on smaller bike on short track but I find it more tiring me so chose bigger if I want to ride all day.

[@MGMAlternative]

Mountain biking has a TON of factors involved. Where you ride, how you ride and your personal preference. This definitely isnt a definitive test. Just the beginning really!

[@tjb8841]

How does the front center length compare? Does the slacker HA on the M bring the front wheel to the same spot as the L? The reach will be much shorter though, standard reach on M is already shorter, then angle adjust headset brings it even further back. My guess is that even with the 10mm longer stem, the bars are still a fair bit closer on the M?

[@MGMAlternative]

I think front center will be a bit longer on the large still but the angle set was intended to increase the front center (with the bi product of shortening the reach. hence the 50mm stem) The angleset decreases the reach by about 5mm so with the 50mm stem you are still net 5mm longer reach than with the 40mm stem and no angleset. But yes. still closer on the M with all the changes than the L

[@prithvikanchan9781]

I am getting a used xl bike at a good price shall i go for it In 5'10"

[@chimps4gimps]

Couldn’t believe the timing here! I’m looking at buying the Altitude A70 and can’t get a demo. At 5’9” one place has said a large would be correct, but I wasn’t sure. I’d be interested to know which felt more fun please? Some more comparison vids on different trail types would also be amazing 😁👊🏼

[@MGMAlternative]

Yo Chimps Remi here. I think unless you k ow you really love a bigger bike the medium would be the way to go. You are a bit shorter than me but also in between sizes a bit. But there is also availability to consider. If only large is available I say go for it!

[@chimps4gimps]

@@MGMAlternative Cheers Remi, I’m not wanting an out and out race machine (although I’ll be doing a few enduro’s), fun factor is the main thing I’m looking for. I’m happy to wait. Everyone does seems to have large though 🤷🏼‍♂️ I’ve got a really nice hardtail to keep me going.

[@remithesemi]

@@chimps4gimps The hard tail won't cut it in those enduro! Buy the sick bike!

[@dannygarcia4573]

great video dude i'm the same heigth as you. I just bought a jeffsy size L and although the bike has not arrived I kind of hoped I went for a medium. However at the least the L is going to stop riding too fast and breaking bones

[@MrCayer12]

Sick video! I am right between sizes too and went for the medium Altitude for a more playful feel. What size dropper post are you using on the Medium build?

[@MGMAlternative]

Remi has been able to fit a 200mm dropper post in! Big reason why he likes the medium too.

[@tanvichet760]

I'm 5'11, Can I go for a Medium size frame?

[@DavidFoundCo]

No

[@miguelfragoso7023]

Yeah

[@pitzoable]

Would be great to see the numbers of the two bikes. wheelbase, trail, reach, etc. to compare it.

[@MGMAlternative]

its all on bikes.com

[@scvkurt03]

Unrelated to the topic of the video, what are your considerations for deciding between air and coil?

[@MGMAlternative]

For the shock, it's whatever you feel works better for you. What works better is faster, and inspires more confidence, which then helps you to push faster again. For your terrain, you might need a shock that can generate speed more than a shock that gives you braking and traction control.

[@Alfie.Goalkeeping]

Wait how tall is he? I'm having same problem I'm 5.11 and don't know whether to go medium or large I had a evil Wreckoning large last and felt was slightly too big.

[@bartieshaw]

I didn't realize how small you were Remi ;)

[@MGMAlternative]

still taller than Miranda if anyone asks

[@dougr550]

@@MGMAlternative No one asked but it made me laugh anyway

[@stamy1]

What is that green helmet that you have? It looks comfortable.

[@MGMAlternative]

That is the SMITH Mainline. It is!

[@StrapedWitMyGloc44]

Which size climbs better?

[@MGMAlternative]

Remi will have to chime in on that one!

[@filipvaclavovsky7405]

Good news, medium is faster 😀 Did the same to my slightly smaller bike. Works angleset - 1.5 deg and 50mm Nukeproof riser stem with 38mm rise bars. My friend has the same bike, but stock and it feels small when we swap them.

[@cheapskatemtb2555]

I'm 6-4 so I'm sized down on pretty much every bike. What's this "stretched out" feeling you mention? Also, guessing a medium will be easier to handle at the end of a big EWS day when you're tired.

[@MGMAlternative]

thats the theory but we will see!!!

[@vin9976]

Yo Remi, this was sweet. Fwiw Lee McCormick's reach calculation is your height in CM * 2.5 (which is 445mm). Perhaps its no coincidence that you fit better on the medium which with the angleset is almost EXACTLY that number. In the end, which one of those bikes is the most fun for you when not racing (or on full blown DH terrain)? Also...what is the best coffee maker when camping? (I know you are the coffee pro) :)

[@MGMAlternative]

Interesting. Ive never heard of that formula but it checks out! 😆

[@caderidenour642]

Cool test. Would have been more insightful-for the general population at least-if you would have tested both bikes with the same HA and stem length. Additionally it would have been telling to run the medium with a 438mm CS and the large with a 448 CS. This would give the two bikes almost identical front/rear center ratios and allow the rider to have the same weight distribution on both bikes. With this in mind, front tire weighting by the rider would be almost the same, and a more accurate assessment could be made between a longer or shorter bike.

[@MGMAlternative]

This wasn’t really meant to be a test that was applicable to anyone but myself. I was trying to learn about 2 bikes that I would potentially take to the races. That said I think you can still take away info from what I learned!

[@gabrielsegura1530]

Big coincidence that you and brendog post the same video!!! Looking forward to this I’m like 3 cm taller than Jesse so yeah can’t wait to find out

[@vovomtb]

I guess everybody is experimenting before the race season starts.

[@JesseMelamedMTB]

I'd say you're a solid medium then!

[@gabrielsegura1530]

@@JesseMelamedMTB yeah what happened is that I just saw the videos miniature quickly because I was in class and I was like oh its Jesse but then when I finished classes and starting to watch the video and I saw Remi I was like damn, my comment doesn’t makes to much sense

[@JesseMelamedMTB]

@@gabrielsegura1530 Haha all good! Pay attention in class. I still agree with what I said though. If you're slightly taller than me then I'd say the medium is perfect. I'm happy on my medium.

[@gabrielsegura1530]

@@JesseMelamedMTB Yeah! Specially looking forward to change bike maybe in november to a modern 29 enduro bike because the difference between my actual bike and the one I want is 25 mm of reach about 455 and 29er bang on, Jesse how much sag do you use front and back?

[@akosyjonathan]

How tall are you

[@mikedamisch]

I sized down (XL to L, I'm 6'2'') for the fun factor. I'm sure I'm faster on a long bike but I just like the agility and playfulness on a smaller bike.

[@MGMAlternative]

All that matters is what you want the bike for and whether you're having fun!

[@mikedamisch]

@@MGMAlternative for sure. Just adding to the conversation about size. In my case for a normal riders that are not hunting for tenth of seconds 😊 but ride bikes purely for fun. And for me I've tried both long and short and short bikes are just a lot more fun. Thanks for amazing content BTW!

[@KingVita-mf6xu]

How you time your runs?

[@MGMAlternative]

We had a Freelap timing system, it's usually used for ski racing.

[@KingVita-mf6xu]

@@MGMAlternative to bad that it's so expensive 😪

[@SpencerBaum]

You should do some statistical analysis on this data and see if there is an actual statistically significant difference between the two bike time wise

[@MGMAlternative]

Sounds like alot of testing

[@SpencerBaum]

@@MGMAlternative na, just some math

[@everywherelocal]

great video 🔥

[@MGMAlternative]

thank you!

[@jasonpatrickdeleon4701]

Im only 5'5 so i prefer small maybe also medium

[@NextLevelRiding]

maybe just for fun test a Small and an XL

[@MGMAlternative]

haha if we had access that would actually be quite fun.

[@NextLevelRiding]

@@MGMAlternative would make for good viewing too! ;-) Off to walmart you go! 😁

[@eugene44569]

Why am I watching this in 5 foot 6 and stuck between a small and a medium

[@lucaspbertoli2709]

Would love to see like,10,15 laps with each one, in diferent days, so we could have a better statistic!

[@lucaspbertoli2709]

but loved this video!!!! You guys are amazing!

[@MGMAlternative]

That sounds time consuming...

[@ChunkyCheeseBurglar]

I just bought an altitude in large. Im 5’8. My friends say i went to big but i rode it around for 25 mins and it felt really good. Hope i didn’t make a bad decision.

[@MGMAlternative]

The best bike is the bike you have! Shred it!

[@montyjcm]

Medium for a single espresso morning and large for double espresso. Did I do that right?

[@MGMAlternative]

Doubles all day!

[@mtbjon3587]

Who would have thought that medium would beat large black and blue

[@MGMAlternative]

This time...

[@barrakingbeatz7794]

I’m 182cm and I’m in the middle of sizes. Coming from bmx I tent to like a shorter bike even though ever sales person tries to get you on a bigger bike these days

[@Corona16X]

How tall are you?

[@MGMAlternative]

Remi is 5'10''

[@johncoons1666]

6 foot on a large 2021 RM Altitude.

[@hillarym4550]

If it takes you 4 laps to figure it out, it probably isn't that big of a deal!

[@Jockey04X]

1.75 seconds is kinda a big deal in a race!

[@jacobrichard8932]

two watches? look at this millionaire ;)

[@dvrgntminds]

Next thing we know he’ll be driving an 04 Jetta like Jesse!

[@whatthehellareyoustarinat8569]

But with a shorter stem, the top tube length difference is about an inch or so. I guess only pros can really notice the difference, or maybe I'm just trying to justify why I ended up buying an XL hahahaha

[@MGMAlternative]

An inch is alot in our books!

[@Windband1]

I watched the vid twice and looked in the comments....how tall are you Remi??

[@MGMAlternative]

Remi is 5'10''

[@Windband1]

@@MGMAlternative Thank you! :)

[@camilomolina219]

The real question is: are you a large or a medium jersey. I have insider info and I know the answer, but I think the group should make a video about that too. BTW, I have the same issue as everyone one else that’s 5’10”, on a medium but sometimes feel like o need it to be a bit longer.

[@MGMAlternative]

Finally the tough questions are asked. Depends if we are talking about race fit vs casual fit. Large T shirt, Medium Casual Bike Jersey, Small Race Jersey!

[@ApostolosK06]

The fact that im sitting here interested to see if a 2.5cm longer bike makes you faster is kinda interesting

[@MGMAlternative]

2.5cm is a lot!

[@ApostolosK06]

I know but it seems like a very small difference 🤏

[@ApostolosK06]

@@ark8tct idk if I understood either lol

[@isaacscott8480]

5'11" on an xl👌

[@MGMAlternative]

Big one!

[@DrJGang]

High five if you sighed after he said "...maybe not get a definitive answer..."

[@MGMAlternative]

Sadly definitive answers are hard to come by...

[@rickyzuela7569]

If you're 5'10 definitely go with a large, I'm a muscular 5'4 body frame and I have a medium Pivot 429 and I love it... the bike shop dude wanted me to go with a small( I would have hated it).... I might even get a large, I feel like I'm in complete control when the bike is longer. My bike is carbon fiber so it's very light so weight is no problem. Just some input for other shorter riders.

[@jeffgomzalez5597]

A New Life

[@parkinkevin]

Does seem that you were getting faster for every run regardless of the bike

[@mackedwards303]

How tall is Remi?

[@MGMAlternative]

5'10 or 177cm

[@Paganiproductions84]

I own a Size medium XC Hardtail and Just Brougt a new xc Hardtail in Size Large Both botg are 29er's i am 178 cm tall

[@JesseMelamedMTB]

Wait...but I'm on a medium!

[@benuglow8976]

how tall are you ?

[@nickwilson4584]

Time for your small/medium testing video now Jesse! :D

[@MGMAlternative]

Couple medium boys...

[@NuriB91]

Such great content, you should have started YT way earlier! :D

[@MGMAlternative]

Only so much time in the year!

[@MrSupermugen]

man look at the chain sag on the medium... typical shimano driveline crap

[@Yoda-em5mt]

My not wife aggrees bigger is not always better ha ha

[@jonathanbailey2021]

kind of meaningless without knowing how tall he is.

[@ffbikes]

way to go making a medium a large and the large a medium

[@paulodeoliveira6849]

I wonder what the result would be if he tested the L with 50mm stem. He'd probably stay more centered but the extra lenght would lead us to another discussion. The effective reach debate.

[@crunchycrispybacon]

They should call them what they really are: medium is a small, large is a medium and extra large is just large. They moved all the measurements to the right because no guy likes to be called ‘small’ anything 😂

[@tjb8841]

Enduro Magazine tested several race bikes, and they came to a similar conclusion. The smaller bikes allowed them to exit corners faster, and that was the overal determining factor in the lap times. enduro-mtb.com/en/enduro-race-bike-mtb-review/

[@blakelynton7072]

How tall are you?