Meet the Best $500 Pair of Speakers We've Ever Heard!

[@tested]

Check out ELAC's selection of speakers here: www.elac.com/product/ub5/

[@charlespurviskellyjr.7210]

I “THINK” I “MAY HAVE” built have built my next audio system. I already have a Technics SL-1210 M5G Turntable (awaiting a Phono Cartridge - a Nagaoka MP-110 or an MP-200), and a Pro-Ject Debut Esprit (with maybe an Ortofon 2M Bronze), a Schiit Mani Phono Preamplifier, NAD Amplification (either a vintage 3140 Integrated Amplifier, and either an equally vintage 2140 or 2200 Power Amplifier), or an NAD C-358 Preamplifier/Streamer/DAC with a companion C-268 Power Amplifier, a Marantz ND8006 CD Player/Streamer/DAC and these ELAC UniFi UB5 Speakers. And that is with the right cables, and stands. With a nice but affordable Subwoofer, this can be a killer kick ass rig around $5K. This DEFINITELY will form a rig that I don’t need to make any apologies for. 👍🏾👍🏾 -Charles-

[@jkitto2008]

I own ELAC, what wonderful sound. Crisp and clean. No wash out. They handle it all ❤️‍🔥❗️

[@russellwallace4837]

WOW, I have a new level of respect for Andrew Jones. This is the first interview that i have really heard from him, and the level of enthusiasm that he still has for his craft is really an awesome thing to see.

[@Deathrape2001]

Obviously it's a $ALE$ video, not an honest demo.

[@muppetpaster]

Come on...He is trying to sell these things!

[@theoriginalcraig]

If anybody feels that ANY of what these guys said, is merely snake oil, it is only because they haven't actually heard any of these ELAC speakers. They are every last bit as good as you've been told. Better amplification certainly helps, but regardless of power source, the ELAC bookshelf speakers are stunning. As in mouth-hanging-open, eyes-the-size-of-plates amazing. And that's before you even bother to factor in the ridiculously low prices. Get a pair and hear them in your house. You won't believe it.

[@andersforsgren3806]

@@theoriginalcraig I have heard them, I am a long time ELAC fan. But the company is not the same with the new owners. And Debut speakers don't cut it in this price range. If you absolutely want ELAC and need bookshelf speakers the BS263 is a little wonder - but cost more. Audiovector might be an alternative to look into.

[@86LukeM]

Every time I see Patrick, I feel like I'm traveling back in time and watching the screen savers

[@CUBEoneVX]

+Luke McGhee I miss techtv and the screen savers was the best show on that channel.

[@86LukeM]

Use to grow up watching screen saves, call for help and extended play.

[@oleesquivel875]

I remeber patrick smashing things with the sledge hammer and kilt hahaa.

[@86LukeM]

Ya I also remember a young, Morgan Webb. :o

[@techfreshness]

+Luke McGhee and kevin rose'd former gf

[@Genologic]

THAT GUY NEEDS TO FIX HIS BELT BUCKLE!!

[@Mekhanic1]

You can tell a lot about someone by how they align their belt buckle. heheh

[@Greenleaf_]

+Genologic I always have to put mine slightly to the side because it's too long :(

[@vcancer]

+Genologic That was Driving me Crazt too!

[@AngelLuisTrinidad]

+Genologic It looks like he took a shit, and pull his pants in a hurry, probably he was late for filming the video.

[@JuanDaMajikOne]

+Mekhanic1 you can also tell how young you are by how they speak about belt buckles.. = )

[@kronosbr]

I was... to the very end... waiting to hear the speakers... and then realized how dumb i am... xD

[@GM-cm3qc]

Pedro Ponciano lol

[@toddmitchell6362]

me too haha

[@bdsbckjdskl]

Seriously..I was waiting for that too these a$$holes are all talk ,no action like hillary..Hope they don't screw us over with crappy big talk and deception like bum-@$$. :D

[@hellraiser1951]

Well,actually,you would not hear the speakers but yours,in your room,therefore making the demo for nothing...just my thought

[@danm3188]

I know it can be satisfying, but it's also completely POINTLESS. You can't tell how they sound, listening to them through a recording played on different speakers.

[@rlwings]

Beethoven was deaf and created beautiful music... Andrew Jones doesn't listen to his own speakers until the day of the show and they sound amazing... Now that's talent!

[@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120]

Randy Levine Andrew Jones must have a good crew of people also the unseen I mean

[@Waltkat]

Excellent interview with Andrew Jones. It is great to be able to learn about his background and his thinking when designing speaker systems. He verbalized a lot of my own thinking on audio reproduction and the compromises that must be made. Thanks, Patrick.

[@scottsatren9796]

Andrew Jones is such a treasure to high end audio, one of the greatest speaker designers of all time !!!!

[@MrKenn1230]

Absolutely agree! It is always a good day when a talented speaker designer actually designs a high quality, affordable speaker!

[@paulsmith1981]

Introducing the manufactures designer after telling everybody how good they are, blows their objectivity instantly.

[@pressrolls]

ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY - WHAT A BULLSHIT PROMO

[@AustinPetDetective]

I agree well said.

[@lotharhercher]

pressrolls

[@jesot]

It's Andrew Jones... He's kind of a big deal. The point was he heard these great speakers and it turned out they were Andrew Jones speakers - and they were inexpensive at that.

[@scottsatren9796]

How right you are my friend.

[@EyeInSky2000]

The folks at ELAC definitely know what they're doing, and this particular line of speakers is hard to beat for the reasonable price tag of $500 a pair. No doubt the scope measurements don't lie, but I am quite curious to how they were able to achieve low distortion from a tweeter that's actually mounted to one of the mid-range drivers? Wouldn't there be more vibration (leading to distortion) on the tweeter if it's mounted to a cone that's moving as opposed to solidly fixed on a cabinet?

[@SUPERIMIAINI]

I almost feel like we were Yves dropping on a great conversation, you could tell Mr. Jones is passionate about Audio. Loved the video guys!

[@julienauger7905]

I'm actually doing a course in physics at university and I understand so much his passion of understanding more and more just to make the best he can about his products. That's what I want to do in the future. Thanks for the video!

[@JimmyKraktov]

I started selling consumer audio in 1970. It all started as a hobby back in the late '50s when I was 8 or 9 yrs old. Amps, tuners, tape recorders, phono cartridges or speakers, I knew ALL the specs and was happy to tell what I knew to anyone interested in hearing them. After a short while, a few years, I began to realize that when it came to speakers, specs actually meant little, to anyone. I could tell you all about a speaker system, from drivers to cross-overs to cabinet specs, power minimums/maximums, etc. and it all sounded impressive. Especially to people who knew nothing about any of it. But, I soon realized that after all I said was absorbed by the customer, few really understood what it all meant or why it was important, to them, the customer. They of course, were right. With speakers, what you can hear, with your ears, not mine, is all that really matters. Two speakers with identical specs, on paper, will sound different. You choose the one that sounds better, to you. You buy a shirt because you like the way it looks. A speaker's appearance will never determine its sound. Once you've taken size and price into the mix, with that out of the way, sound is what determines what's best, for you. A person's right and left ear perceives sound differently. So, no one can tell YOU what YOU perceive to be good sound. It's all yours and yours alone.

[@MrEdsTheRef]

Andrew Jones is The Main Man when it comes to speakers. Back in the 70's i spent a lot of money on top notch Mission speakers to go with Quad amp and Thorens deck. 45 years later im hearing better superb sound from my Brennan JB7 and Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2 combo. How this is possible im not sure but hearing stuff from uncompressed cds that ive never heard before and have not needed to use sub woofer. Just wow

[@jamesk1619]

Just love it when someone's passion for their work comes through the videos.. This interview was about as great as they come. I've been planning on getting a new pair of bookshelf's or floor speakers. Can't wait to take a look at these.

[@SharpblueCreative]

Don't mind the German approach to speakers, Elac do work well on electronic music. I currently run B&W CM-5 which are very good and I have seen reviews comparing Elac to B&W so they are a similar sounding beast I would imagine.

[@kargx-tal3626]

Andrew Jones A genius out and out,bringing wonderful accurate sound to the old and young. The Brits? Some of the most innovative engineers et al. Im in. Michael Doyle

[@rberg57]

I heard these speakers in a record/stereo shoppe in Rochester New York a few months ago. I have heard and owned many pairs of speakers, KEF, B&W, Advent, Energy, etc.. These were so musical and listenable. They just vanished and left the music. I find it funny in one of the comments below, someone was complaining about not HEARING them in the video. I guess they did not figure that you would be listening to the sound on your crappy laptop speakers!!! How could they sound good?!?! Seriously give these a listen The last time I was so impressed with a speaker was listening to a pair of Kef LS35A monitors 30 years ago. High praise indeed. Totally warranted though....

[@bryangl1]

Thank you. As well as encouraging me to go and hear the speakers, there is SO much to learn from this discussion and interesting to learn Andrew Jones' background and "philosophy" of speaker design. Being a classical musician, my aim at home is to hear something as close as possible (and, of necessity, affordable) to what I hear in the concert hall. A pity the video has generated some ridiculous comments.

[@ruchb1]

I really wish there were more in depth interviews with the reps like this. Not just a video of a guy walking around the room at CES going look look look and... video ends. Cheers for making this !

[@FrustratedBaboon]

Looking for welding video but around 2:46 I have urge to go to Amazon and order these exact speakers !!!!! I don't even have an amplifier. Maybe I can weld them or something.

[@jeffsloane8628]

I have the slim version of the Uni-Fi bookshelves and love them. Understand they are a 4 ohm speaker and like 150W+ per channel. If that is an issue, the ELAC debut speakers are also fantastic!

[@cqbninja3045]

I think everyone who likes audio should watch this video. Literally such a good video and I was smiling for a majority of that interview. Very well done and thanks for the good work! By the way, I do love the VR reviews as well and you guys are my #1 reliable source.

[@nachtgoblin24]

It would be amazing if you could make video with patrick discussing the basics of finding/pairing an amplifier for/with speakers with him explaining basics and the essential thoughts you have to put into the decision

[@wxlvandy]

Patrick, congrats on interviewing an audio legend! Can't wait to audition myself ... but I've heard a pretty good selection of Andrew's products. These are bound to be great!

[@antlerup]

Andrew Jones, the man, the myth, the legend. Great interview!

[@garyzielinski9682]

That guys enthusiasm is portrayed in his explanation, the electric guitar example is an insight to his genius,I would bet even Eric Clapton would be captivated to hear this man speak!!!!!

[@theshiftybloke4672]

I love Patrick giving him the time to ramble on. Good interview!

[@ryanjofre]

I just scored a new pair of Pioneer sp-bs22lr for $100 from a local guy. God bless Andrew Jones.

[@buttonman1831]

He hit it on the head! Most music is manufactured in the studio exactly! That is precisely why I build a system that is fun to listen to as opposed to super accurate. Andrew Jones gets it.

[@m.r.2183]

I applaud your enthusiasm. You may want to keep in mind that your listeners don’t unlimited time.

[@beethreeLIVE]

Can you guys do a build log of some relatively inexpensive bookshelf speakers? I really love these audiophile videos with Patrick geeking out! Keep em' coming!

[@Subparanon]

I'm really curious if TESTED has ever heard the JBL LSR305 studio monitors? They have the most holographic, 3 dimensional sound of any speaker I've ever heard. The waveguide they are using for the tweeter is directly taken from their $20,000 studio monitors.

[@JPBennett]

+Subparanon I have a pair of the LSR305s on my desk now, and absolutely love them. One of these days I'll pony up for the subwoofer as well.

[@Cheezus]

+Subparanon well a speaker and a monitor have different uses. A speaker is typically to listen to music where as a studio monitor is for accuracy when doing audio work.

[@Subparanon]

Cheezus The job of a monitor is to provide a reference sound so that your mixes are consistent. There is no fundamental difference in the sound they produce compared to another speaker. They try to reproduce sound with a flat response and without coloring the sound. Regular hifi speakers try to do the same thing but they often make compromises for cost.

[@Cheezus]

mostly true but consumer speakers are typically not flat or even attempted to be flat. Flat frequency responses aren't "fun" so a lot of them are colored in tasteful ways.

[@Captain__Obvious]

+Cheezus A reference studio monitor can always recreate the "fun color" (distortion) of your favourite hifi speaker using EQ/DSP. But if your speakers themselves aren't capable of accurately reproducing an audio signal without distortion, they are measurably inferior devices in engineering terms.

[@mzeeshanch]

Can you tell me which amplifiers (complete system - any other equipment) were ELAC using at this presentation??? ELAC also have stereo amps... Should one go with them or the other thing is if you could let me know what was their own setup...

[@sky_004]

What a guy. I'm honored to be selling his speakers to people.

[@1salakot]

what home receiver/amplifier best fits this pair of ELACS? Please advise, thanks

[@danex902]

Are these speakers passive or active? Do they require an external amp?

[@latourhighendaudio]

Nice interview. I wish Andrew Jones would have answered the one question asked about why there are so many different designs of speakers but he went off on how he designs speakers in a particular series. Would have been interesting to hear his take on electrostatics or planar magnetic's or simply his take on advantages and disadvantages of other speaker technologies. The one thing that is often over looked and was here is what is driving the speakers and quality of the source material. Speakers are important but the equipment and the quality of the source are equally and really more important. Speakers are only as good as the equipment driving them.

[@joetigani4545]

How do these compare to the Sonos One? I know different but sound quality? Thoughts..

[@PulledPurk]

"born in stereo" Greatest joke ever told and it went right over that guy's head

[@Bert-lc5xm]

I was wondering if it would be a good Idee to use 3sets of these in a atmos 7.2 or 7.1 configuration? 2 front left and right and 2 as surround sound and 2 as front from sealing left and right. Maybe even 1 more as center speaker, but then i would have 1 speaker left.. Or are these really not a good choice for the center front-top and surround speakers? I now have a 5.1 speakerset from infinity but am looking to buy a new receaver with 7.2 Atmos and thinking do I buy only the extra speakers I need or all new..

[@peterxyz3541]

I’m looking for a pair of studio reference monitor. I wonder if this can work for that

[@robertclarkguitar]

I am happy with my mediocre Behringer TRUTH B2030A's. I bought these and wound up saving 500 bucks. I write music and went to the music store in Atlanta listened to all the ones on display ....I was aiming for the Yamaha pair they had which I listened to all but the behringers and the salesman was like. "Dude these are actually pretty good" So He asked me to listen to 5 example sounds through each pair of sets they had without looking at which pair. I chose the behringers. I am now completely sold. I felt the clarity and the bass for the price was crazy ...If you ever get a chance to snag a pair you must hear these.They are the flattest, yet clearest of the bunch that I listened that were were pairs ranging from 1300 to 500. I am amazed. I will admit though they are heavy as all hell. But you can adjust so many levels and the built in amp in each which each are separate powered sourced...They make my moxf6 sound incredible. Then when using the recording I put the home stereo to the test and the range is so incredible. I cannot believe I am saying this but behringer is under rated. In my opinion. Keep in mind I understand subjective is surely the role here when purchasing however please give them a shot if you are on a budget or not.

[@jb2billion]

I own the truths and some yamaha HS7's. No comparison, the Yamaha's are for sale. The Beringers were a great surprise for how little I paid for them.

[@robertclarkguitar]

+Jim bryant Aha. So it's not just "My" ears?? I get it though. Yamaha has some sweet pairs of monitors too now. Back when I got mine I was happy with them. They are 5 years old now. I have yet to see the limit light but I do not crank mine either. Mainly mine for my Moxf6 Yamaha workstation output. Which do you own? How long and have they faired well?

[@mdd47]

What kind of power do you need to really get these going though? My amp is a Yamaha MX-630, 130 or 140 WPC depending on which spec sheet you believe. Is that enough? If he's getting that kind of bass out of a 5 inch woofer it's gotta be fairly hard to drive.

[@lipingzhu9365]

Hi, I sincerely invite you to come to my stereo shop. The following is the address of my shop hiendchina .com

[@davidwalker1590]

Monitor Audio RX2 are good mid range speakers for the money, at around £500. Kef R300 are also good high end speakers for £1,000. I know the latter is a lot of money but for the performance they are 5/5. If you don't have much to spend, find some Mordaunt Short 902i's on ebay for around £50-100, the sound quality is astonishing for the price. Extremely clear and detailed.

[@phantom498]

Loving the new audio focused videos Tested! Keep it up! 👍

[@RoraighPrice]

how would those Uni-Fi UB5 compare to the Debut line B5 that patrick picked up. also how would they actually compare to a set of kef Ls50 or even x300's

[@RoraighPrice]

+Roraigh “Roars” Price as well as the Yamaha HS series

[@PhilG999]

I REALLY need to upgrade my speaks. I have old Pioneer home speaks that the cones are falling apart. Pioneer in the car that is clean until the stock HU maxes out.I want a pair of these SO bad!;)

[@tomalcolm]

Many no ELAC link? Why no speaker test for video?

[@seanskimmer]

What's a recommended amplifier for these speakers?

[@AdamsBrew78]

I'm glad I caught this video ...I've been torn between blowing all the dough for the KEF LS50s or going midrange and settling for the KRK Rockits .. This seems like a perfect alternative.

[@DubMasterFish]

Really curious about how those speakers sound. Attended several demos by this guy with the TAD speakers and was blown away every time. Interesting to see how far he got with low budget speakers! (hard working sound engineer for the last 15 years)

[@brianw.359]

I appreciated the mic and speaker analogy; they are both transducers. I was hoping for more of this.

[@quanyhuang3178]

liping zhu 2 分钟前 Hi, I sincerely invite you to come to my stereo shop. The following is the address of my shop hiendchina .com

[@GaryTootle]

How do these compare to the Vanatoo Transparent One bookshelf speakers?

[@superjervis]

+Gary Tootle These aren't available yet,check out Z Reviews on KZbin..he did the Elac B5 and also the Vanatoo Transparent

[@1mykalfury]

Getting to interview Andrew must've been like winning the lottery for Patrick!

[@spunkmire2664]

Patrick, have you ever listened or tested out KRK monitors? I would put my money on them. Same price point, very nice sound quality. I have a pair of old wooden cabinet models, now they make a resin mold case, which are still nice.

[@asdfburnz9710]

What time do they test it?

[@AlexDemskie]

I really appreciate his honesty. That's a really good sign. I'll have to give these products a listen.

[@chaiTV]

+Alex Demskie "only $500, OMG, it's a miracle, you'd be crazy if you don't rush out and buy a pair" etc etc.. yeah, amazing display of honesty.

[@parvindamania1868]

My husband's Stereo system is old school assembled with no component costing more than $20 (everything bought from thrift stores, SPCA and Salvation. Sounds good enough for us.

[@mboiko]

Great to see Patrick Norton again...forward to the past....(Screen Savers) and very good interview.

[@deanmindock5020]

I enjoyed him and Leo, a great duo.

[@presterjohn71]

I enjoyed that interview as much as I would an interview with Tom Hanks or Tom Jones. It's strange how we value celebrity chat but not vaguely technical chat from knowledgeable types when really these people are no less interesting and in fact can be more so.

[@mahal1891]

All the talk about the LS50 leading to your liking these -- have you heard the KEF x300? Can get them for $600, and they're fully powered with amp/dac included.

[@julianayala03]

This is legit, I had his $200 Pioneer SB series speakers and they were boss. Andrew Jones knows how to design a kick-ass speaker while having constraints. :-)

[@Mr-yl1px]

"BORN IN STEREO" That's freaking Amazing!

[@getstew]

These vs Polk RTI A1's if I'm using a subwoofer. thoughts?

[@Justwantahover]

They sound good at that price cos they are point source. Most manufacturers simply ignore the fact that point source treble and med is essential for good sound. That's simply cos the tone and texture are from one point instead of a foot apart. The vowels and consonants come from one place like with only one mouth. Voice and piano stand out to be the most different with point source (and different for the better).

[@brentwalker8596]

Excellent interview. Intelligent questions and Andrew Jones was given the space to talk. Well done!!!

[@hmmob3956]

1:26: The LS50 never were 2200 or 2800 a pair. They have always been 1500 a pair and sometimes you get a deal on Kef-Direct where you can get them for 1300 or so. The MSRP is 1500. Please make sure that you do not provide misinformation like this. I own the LS50 and love them. I purchased them for the MSRP of 1500 directly from KEF and for that price they are a steal in my eyes. I would, however, be hesitant purchasing the pair if they would cost me 2800.

[@esaedvik]

Might have to go and give these a listen. A few christmases ago I bought myself a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 10.1's and have absolutely loved them. I live in an apartment building, so can't really crank anything up, and they still sound awesome. Too bad my Wharfedale Topaz SW-12 sub gave out a while back, can't get myself evicted with style :(

[@antoniohernandez6590]

If the KEF Q100 go on sale for $300 I have to go with those, but I wonder how these compare to the Sierra-1

[@talibe801]

Andrew is the man! was nice to see you this year in las vegas.

[@VinceM797]

What amp was used to drive these speakers at the show?

[@stovepipe6769]

i wonder what his thoughts would be on a pair of moniter11's from Paradigm series 7 i believe. Running of Yamaha 1095 receiver and power by Yamaha amp, not sure of power rating on amp but i think it's about 150 a channel. thanks

[@crazzylee]

Do they sound better then the Yamaha HS 80s or HS 50s?

[@MrJason9142002]

Are the ub5 2 the same speakers?

[@shirleeeyyy]

WOW !! That was the greatest nap i've had in a long time

[@Grevlain]

I'll be ordering the Debut B5's (for $220 pair) in the coming weeks. I believe these will be game changers in the $500 or under range.

[@rgee1810]

You guys should do a follow up to this - now I need to know what amplifier to buy (best bang for the buck)!

[@notinterested8452]

Listening to this on my phone speakers and I can't even tell what is so special about these drivers.

[@Somber.Killer]

Well no shit Sherlock

[@AudiophileTubes]

At this price point, you must check out the JBL Studio 530 or the Dali Zensor too. GREAT speakers!

[@christ510]

I have two pairs of bookshelves, KEF's KIT100s & Audio Engine5 they both sound great together.

[@pt020]

Will they be on sale in Europe?

[@davidsolomon3636]

Agreed. Been in the biz for 35 yrs. never heard anything like this for $500 PR.

[@stevecampbell7632]

Patrick - know what equipment the Uni-Fi UB5's were demoed with?

[@blade5658]

Anyone know what brand of stands those speakers are on?

[@donrutter6765]

Still after all these years , recording engineers will still tell you nothing beats the Yamaha NS-10's for reference sound.

[@deanmindock3680]

I enjoyed the interview very much. AJ is a very likeable, intelligent, and open guy. He is living a charmed life. It was good to see Patrick again. Where is Leo?

[@zork2001]

No recommendations on the best kind of amp to power the speakers?

[@wric01]

What is unique about the updated ub52 is the 3D like layering and soundstage i hear. Can't get it from any other speaker under 2k i encountered. Everything else just seem flat and in front , I got the airmotive B+ just to compare, the AMT tweeter does get better highs but everything else goes to ub52. Using a decent 1000$ dac + 1000$ amp thus like everything in audio it is subjective.

[@allstar930]

I don't get the hate, this interview is really informative.

[@Cyba_IT_NZ]

Ikr, to see an American actually listening and not trying to butt in all the time to an experienced and not (too) toffy audiophile was quite interesting.

[@NelsonBigGunP200Fan]

Never heard of ELAC. I'd like to hear them sometime in a Demo, though. I have a set of bose 901 Series VI and a set of Polk Rt15I. They both sound wonderful, but the RT15i has more highs than the 901s. I do use the EQ with901's because there is a BIG sound difference with them if you dont use it. Onkyo Tx-NR809 AVR is running them.

[@drgjs]

Christopher Ryan The 901's are an interesting design--i used to sell them over 20 years ago. They're basically a bi-polar cluster of 3 inch paper drivers--so they struggle with both the high and low end. With proper placement and if they're driven properly, they are a pretty interesting design... many people try to down play them--but for their time, they were a very out-of-the-box speaker system.

[@twochaudiomg2578]

Love the sales man. Selling speakers just learned who this guy is I bet.

[@twochaudiomg2578]

Talk about the TAD

[@boeingdriver29]

Agree with LS 50’s that why I own them. Planning to step up to Dali Epicon 2. Can’t wait.

[@vishalv6251]

which amplifier drives good music for the speaker

[@MarmiteTheDog]

As a pround owner of a pair of AJ speakers, I really enjoyed the interview. Good job.

[@anchorbait6662]

How do they compare to the a5+??

[@TF8ase]

For the record. I love your anecdotes.Your passion really is enlivening. Also I love knowledge .

[@DJ.DBD1]

can I use these as studio monitor speakers

[@tedbrookins]

I'd love to hear these ELAC. The Sony Core series are underrated, not so much with the bass response though. I was hoping to get to the teardown pic in the thumbnail.