Meet the Helio Courier H-800 - and a TMCX Turbine Conversion into the Helio Beast

[@jhaedtler]

Those are so much fun to fly! You can dance the leading edges in and out!

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

Maybe someone will become skilled enough to create a "drum beat" of interceptors banging in and out on time and make a Tic Tok vid.

[@stub454]

Many years back when I was a little kid, my backyard had a view of the swamp over which the original Helio aircraft were tested (Norwood/Canton MA). If there was a little breeze they would almost seem to come to a stop in the air, before dropping the nose and heading back to the Canton airport to prepare for the next test. Amazing then, still amazing now.

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

Thank you for sharing that memory. We are hoping that this powerplant/prop combo will produce enough thrust to literally hover even more often.

[@rodcollier1175]

When I was in A&P school we rebuilt one of these for Wycliffe Bible Translators. They brought pilots to pick it up and they put on an air show for us before taking it back to their base in Carolina It was amazing to watch what that plane was capable of doing

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

Thank you for sharing the memory. We are looking for this aircraft to become competitive in STOL contests.

[@nadyamullen6098]

fantastic plane to begin with, can only get better

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

That's what we think too!

[@marc.wrutgers6704]

Love it !~!!!!!

[@anstrengende]

Outstanding looking conversion! Thank you for featuring the fabrication work in this video. Great airshow with the airplane too.

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

Thank you for your comment. You will get to see plenty of upcoming "airshow" after the conversion as well.

[@rmshivo]

Can't wait for the flight testing video

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

Us either!

[@davidnjennieprice]

Very Soon! Likely next week.

[@franzstraumann2373]

Funny to see the automatic slats going in and out independently even within the sections on one wings side… seems that also asymmetric deployment does not adversely influence flying.

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

It's true! It's wild to be inside and watch/hear that "clunk" and like you said, seemingly random with each independent slat position not affecting the felt flight characteristics.

[@trappedinkalifornee]

Back in my day the couriers and stallions were THE WORK HORSE PLANES and could do just about ANYTHING.👍🏼👍🏼

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

That's the idea with this conversion - give a regular Courier nearly the power/thrust of the Stallion to allow it do just about anything and MORE.

[@benwierenga8313]

So cool!!!!!!!

[@skyepilotte11]

Gonna be great !

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

This one will eventually go on floats. The beauty of the turbine power is that the aircraft will achieve dramatically better climb and be able to cruise at top speed all day long without breaking a sweat.

[@DeereX748]

Incredible airplane, if I was a pilot and financially able, I'd own one of these. I got to fly in a JAARS Courier many years ago and the pilot showed what it was capable of; it's been my dream plane ever since. Will the turbine conversion be similar in performance to the H550 Stallion used by the military during Vietnam? What is the cost of conversion as shown in the video, and about what would one sell for after conversion?

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

You will want to call Ken @ TMCX @TurbineMoose #TurbineMoose about pricing [phone]. The turbine conversion of a regular Helio will never be as fast as a Stallion or carry as much cargo/people, but it will have the capability to fly CONSIDERABLY slower than a Stallion making it much more suitable for STOL and back country flying on or off the water while achieving reasonable cruise speed ~140mph for an aircraft of its class.

[@paulhowes5094]

what? wow! 😮

[@samueljohnclark]

Great progress. Is the pt6 your installing similar to that in The stallion?

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

Similar - yes. It's the same or very similar turbine case size. However, the PT6A-20 that is going into this Helio Courier is rated at 550 SHP at the prop whereas the Stallion uses a750 SHP PT6A-34. The Stallion is rated at almost 50% more gross weight, so the extra power makes sense. We have greatly simplified the firewall-forward installation of the turbine on the Courier compared to the quite complex installation on the Stallion for easier maintenance, less weight, etc.

[@jhaedtler]

Didn't they have the GIO-480's originally?

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

Yes, the majority of the H-295 variants had the GIO-480 engine. This particular H-800 was a "late model" early 80s production produced with the 400hp IO-720 flat eight.

[@kchof8817]

Flew the U10B in the Mekong Delta 1969. Would have loved the extra HP

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

Thank you for the memory. Like many machine-based endeavors, it's always nice to have more power. It's fantastic to achieve it while lowering weight and increasing reliability.

[@samueljohnclark]

Will need to be careful on take-offs with that big prop!

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

The wheels on this particular example will be replaced by larger tundra tires for testing - the turbine can easily overcome any additional drag - and then eventually amphibious floats. If a customer were to stay with smaller tires, then a much smaller 4 or 5 blade prop would be the ticket. The Courier does have forward placed main landing gear, so is very difficult to impossible to nose over and becomes airborne on take-offs with the tail only a couple of inches off of the ground.

[@samueljohnclark]

@@cascadeaircraftconversionsthanks for the reply- such a great aircraft

[@lukebelvin4900]

holy sh*t

[@joesutherland225]

Dont think im familiar with this aircraft .where do i find more info on them im curious.

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

One good place to start is www.helioak.com/history - the Helio Alaska company intends to reproduce experimental versions of these aircraft starting in 2025. There is more info at Wiki. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helio_Courier

[@marcinna8553]

Does the new engine move the center of gravity? And if so, how do you compensate?

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

That's a great question. Yes, taking over 200# off of the front end does/will affect the CG if nothing else changes. The turbine does get that average weight out front a bit further than the IO-720 it replaces, so that helps a bit. The biggest impact on keeping the CG is the large Hartzell 3-blade prop out front - the heavier prop/hub puts the counter-balancing weight out as far as possible to help with the CG. These items alone keep the aircraft within reasonable CG and we will likely eventually perform some other tweaks (e.g. moving battery(s) forward) to better optimize the CG. We will soon start work on a Helio Courier H-700 and eventually an H-295 which may require a slight adjustment in strategy. For now, it appears that #TMCX Helio Courier conversions will only be offered with a durable, heavier aluminum prop up front.

[@marcinna8553]

@@cascadeaircraftconversions Thanks, I had assumed the new engine was heavier, plus moved further aft.

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

@@marcinna8553 Although it is the opposite challenge for the Helio Couriers, a lot of bush planes we will work on will be challenged with the long turbine pushing weight too far forward. For the #TurbineMoose Murphy Moose conversion, swinging a "heavy" Avia 3-blade aluminum prop way out front with that long PT6A-20 turbine set up an aft cargo/passenger requirement (or water in the float rear compartment) even though no extra weight was added after replacing the M-14 9-cylinder radial with a "tiny" 2-blade prop. For that aircraft, switching to an MT 4-blade composite prop and deleting 40# plus from the nose of the T-Moose dramatically improved the CG equation.

[@marcinna8553]

@@cascadeaircraftconversions Thanks

[@rickpearce4653]

How much of a HP upgrade? Extra lbs ?

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

205 lbs LESS (diet) so far and a 150 extra shaft horse power but the PT6A-20 probably has 2-3 times the torque of the Lycoming IO-720 so can run a lot more propeller. Without lab testing, double the static thrust would be a good guess.

[@JaguarKwikE]

Lycoming has a better engine the AEIO-540-iE2 of 375hp that can be improved on and there is no 4th row of cylinders running too hot and it can be taken to over 400hp. PT6s I have 12,000 hours on and they are 1950s technology. Go with the GE Catalyst!!!! Light years better: IMPROVED. The future now.

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

True the PT6A-20 is old tech but good reliable examples can be sourced for Experimental projects like this that won't push the budget out of reality. TMCX would love to incorporate all types of newer engines and we at CAC could certainly accommodate, but newer engines are usually multiple $100Ks too much (for experimental.) Under the current FAA, STCs of this nature to allow a working aircraft would be $1M-$2M or more, so unless TMCX gets multiple deposits on such a project, it's not going to happen.

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

The only problem with GE and anything turboprop is that they dropped hundreds if not thousands of invested customers on their heads by all but abandoning real support for the 601E and H80 engines. There are many Ag Aircraft with these engines AOG or otherwise unsellable. I'm pretty sure that neither Thrush or Air Tractor would dare take a risk on them regardless of how great their turbine is.

[@JaguarKwikE]

@@cascadeaircraftconversions There are bulletproof Allison turboprops that you’re not using

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

@@JaguarKwikE Great engines but - TMCX, LLC considered those but at the time was unable to find one for a reasonable price - but still open to opportunities that make sense. TMCX knows a potential customer with one of those Allisons that was quoted $500K to overhaul - probably fine for a certified end result. TMCX and CAC can do anything a customer is willing to pay for, however. TMCX has looked at many great engine deals that turned out to be engines without log books - worthless for Experimental resale.

[@SC7driver]

Put some larger tires on it or you will wreck it.

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

Despite the forward gear preventing nose over on smooth surfaces, we would agree that the small tires aren't suitable for back country rough runways. These just happen to be the wheels/tires this came in with - it will get larger ones even for testing and this particular aircraft will eventually pick up amphibious floats.

[@cascadeaircraftconversions]

Update: If you wander over to our page on FB facebook.com/share/p/YfNkqMP2YLugzerp/ you can see the Helio with the tundra tires. These will be for initial testing only, however. This particular Helio will get outfitted with some Wipline amphibious floats. The next Helio conversion, a Helio Courier H-700, will start conversion this fall and remain on a tundra tire.

[@mel63613]

That engine is too big! Put an IO-580 IN it.

[@mel63613]

And streamline that landing light 'speed brake'!