Undertale's Timeline Misconceptions | Fandom Mandela Effect

[@Dorked]

Thanks for watching! My latest Kingdom Hearts video is underperforming and being penalized for it, so please check it out if you can: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iIG1qWyJpM95iac I also recently uploaded an animated music video of Checkmate from the Inverted Fate OST: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hF7LZ5p_f6eahdk Visualization by Aiden Lucente. My patreon: patreon.com/dorked Other Fandom Mandela Effect videos: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJK1fJ5qededi9E My Undertale webcomic: invertedfate.com/chapters Other Undertale/Deltarune Analysis: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gabIeZp3j8iJZpI kzbin.info/www/bejne/aofJeZt4nZaWbsU

[@Dorked]

@Warnerus Yeah, I think we can assume it's not quite the same as a human's due to Dogamy and Dogaressa, but that still raises a ton of questions about their biology and lifespans.

[@tetradekagon]

Does anybody know why it says this comment was posted 12 hours ago (when I made this comment the video was 2 hours old)

[@marsgreekgod]

youtube didn't even show me the video. ... so yeah thats hash

[@Dorked]

@@tetradekagon Unlisted at the time of upload.

[@Dorked]

@Warnerus I think it has to, given that Chara fell in the 2010's and monsters by the time UT takes place don't remember what humans look like. xD

[@pros_0143]

Common misconception is that Papyrus hates jokes. Papyrus is seen in-game making jokes, so he isn't mad at the jokes, he's mad at Sans for slacking.

[@Dorked]

Oh yeah, I actually covered that in my Papyrus analysis a few years ago. :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/aofJeZt4nZaWbsU

[@mjdxp5688]

Either that, or he just really hates Sans' sense of humor.

[@PhantomGato-v-]

@@mjdxp5688 He does. Who in their logical mind doesn't?

[@FireyDeath4]

@@PhantomGato-v- Me. They're alright

[@sheogorath6834]

@@mjdxp5688 Sans points out that Papyrus smiles after one of his jokes at the start of Snowdin, and he points to him again after a joke from Toriel (which are on the same level as Sans's) after the fight against Asriel. Papyrus even makes some jokes like this in phone calls.

[@qzimyion]

One of the strongest piece of evidence as to why frisk fell in the far future and not in 2010s is from the flavor text for the toy knife found the ruins: "Made of plastic. A rarity nowadays." This implies that whatever time period Frisk fell down in is so far off into the future that plastic is considered an irrelevant piece of technology from the past that is pretty rare to find in Frisk's times. Compared this to modern day where plastics are a big part of our modern technology. Kinda surprised that people often miss this.

[@Dorked]

Ooh, that's actually a really good observation, too! I can't believe I overlooked that for this video.

[@EP1CxEMAN08]

I interpreted that as Toy Knifes are a rarity, not that plastic is.

[@MareMayo56]

i thought it was established that chara was the narrator tho?

[@Dorked]

@@MareMayo56 Chara as the narrator is a very well grounded theory and simplifies things a lot by having a single narrator across routes, but not everyone buys into it.

[@MareMayo56]

@@Dorked with the assumption that Chara IS the narrator at all times, i do wonder what could explain why they would say that?

[@Quinhala11]

Sans describes the way Toriel laughed at his joke for the first time "as if it was the funniest thing she's heard in a hundred years", and Sans is known to be very perceptive so it could mean Toriel did go off to the Ruins a hundred years before they met, which wasn't long before Frisk fell.

[@Dorked]

Yeah, it really depends on if you take the 100 years comment as literal or hyperbole. It's certainly a viable reading!

[@fernoagent8581]

@@Dorked if im not wrong but aren't boss Monster immortal if they don't have alive children ? Or atleats long living

[@naolucillerandom5280]

@@Dorked or Sans meant it as hyperbole, not knowing it was literally true 😂

[@itap8880]

An alien murderer arrival and six children abductions in a hundred years? That would not go unnoticed. Unless, of course, everybody decided it sounds to bizzare to further investigate.

[@Nai-qk4vp]

@@fernoagent8581 Gerson States :Right. ASGORE. He’s a real interesting type of monster. The strongest type of all. We call ‘em Boss Monsters When they have an offspring, the SOUL power of the parents flows into the child... Causing the child to grow as the parents age. But ASGORE doesn’t have a child. So he’s been stuck at the same age... And probably will be forever. Huh? What if the child is a human...? What? Nah. That wouldn’t work. So if ASGORE’s your father, he’ll definitely outlive you.

[@FestiveAngel06]

Part of it might be people being in denial that Undertale takes place *way* in the future, and thus try to make the Asriel and Chara backstory stuff take place in the past. It's probably to make the story seem more "relatable" by having Frisk's adventure take place in modern times. I see monster tech being a mix of slavaged human tech and their own inventions. Anyway, great work, as usual! Keep it up!

[@Dorked]

Yeah, it's definitely easier to understand a relatively recent time frame than it is to imagine a far off future of 50 - 100 years. It's just so hard to imagine where things will be. xD

[@41052]

Yeah I don’t understand either, ever since the beginning I knew 201X must be now and that frisk is in the future. We just don’t know how far in the future.

[@mjdxp5688]

It makes more sense for monsters to have modern tech 100 years after 201X than to have it right as it was being invented, considering all of the underground tech is garbage flowing in from the human world.

[@SketchHusk]

My crisis is realizing that we probably would not even know at what exact point in time when Undertale actually take place. I figure it sounded like the same time range when Mega Man X should happen.

[@enderborn017]

When I see 201X I think "Oh, it's supposed to take place at the same time it released! But that's a little on the nose so the date is displayed a little vaguely"

[@TheAdvertisement]

If Chara and Asriel died in ancient times then how does Chara have an at least wool, very manufactured looking striped shirt huh? Checkmate theorists.

[@Dorked]

THAT IS ALSO A GOOD POINT. xD Though I think the existence of VHS is more damning.

[@TheAdvertisement]

@@Dorked Well yeah that's the obvious point lol. I do like the art of Asriel being riddled with arrows though, it's very tragic and cool-looking, but definitely contributed to this Mandela effect- -He did get killed by arrows it was just by the town weirdo who though Asriel was a mutated bear and hunts with a crossbow.-

[@TheAlterEgo_Ark]

@@TheAdvertisement Like Gaster fanonically being a turtleneck sweater model (when he isn't a blob)

[@0zymandias_666]

@@TheAlterEgo_Ark Gaster isn't anything, we don't know what he looks like.

[@NRobbi42]

The most obvious plot point is Toriel having VHS tapes before Asriel was born.

[@cobalttheprotogen312]

I'm aware of a massive Mandela effect in the community. This would be the existence of the void. So many people reference the void as being the place gaster currently resides, but there is actually no mention of this said void in undertale or Deltarune

[@Dorked]

Oh yeah, I actually address that in my Gaster video, which was the first one in this series. :) You can find that here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJK1fJ5qededi9E

[@victoroliveira3577]

Maybe they refer to the place where misteryman is found

[@TheSkyGuy77]

He fell into his creation and was "scattered across time and space" (whatever that means). Most people don't understand what that even means, nor is it explained. So of course they'll think its a separate dimension instead. (Especially after "mysteryman" was discovered via FUN value 66).

[@ElizeniasFunkinArtNVA]

And also orange bones. They aren't in the original game at all

[@kauanjos3199]

Gaster is kai'sa confirmed

[@autumnwolverton4154]

One interesting question that arrises from all this timeline theorizing is, *why* was Chara, in 201X, the first human to fall? What I mean is, after the Barrier is broken, Catty and Bratty mention "millennia of imprisonment" being over, meaning that monsters had been trapped underground for at least 2000 years. So either no humans at all fell for around 1900 years before eight suddenly fell within a single century, or Frisk fell way, *way* further in the future than any of us are assuming. Both have their own bizarre implications. If the former is true, perhaps Asriel's emergence caused urban legends that attracted more tourists to the mountain, which led to a much higher rate of fallen children?

[@Dorked]

I think it's entirely possible that Asriel's whole appearance led to more humans approaching outta curiosity, yeah. xD Seems logical to me.

[@MariaNicolae]

Maybe whatever hole the eight humans fell into had only recently formed (late 20th century) by the time Chara fell in?

[@oof5740]

Monsters probably were considered only myths, thats why nobody dared to go so far just to check out (and those who did might have died) Asriel says that Chara fell for a not so good reason. Meaning that they didnt accidentally get into mountain, but went looking for something. Maybe they wanted to prove that monsters existed (after all, a kid believing in monsters while no one else does make sense) And then the other humans might have gone there for different reasons Maybe they wanted to know what really happened (specially Bravery and Justice) Or got curious

[@Missingno_Miner]

I mean, maybe Chara *isn't* the first human to fall. It's more than possible that other humans fell into parts of the underground inaccessible from the main cavern, and died alone there, unable to escape. It's worth noting that Mt. Ebott had legends about people disappearing before Chara fell, since Asriel is aware of those legends and could only have learned of them through Chara(Who wouldn't know if they were the first person those legends were about.)

[@greenamber9827]

@@MariaNicolae I agree with the erosion theory.

[@newbiegamelover4767]

I believe there's a misconception about when and where each human died. There seems to be a common belief that the other humans were killed in the locations where we find their armors and weapons. For example, it's believed that the human that possessed Patience somehow died in the Ruins. However, I'm almost positive that I found something else that they left behind: some writing that reads "I cannot run, I cannot fight. But with PATIENCE, I will find my way." This message was found in the Core, and it stands out to me because all the other messages give directions on where to go to find what. There's no doubt that those other messages were written by the monsters. However, I believe that particular message was written by a human. It's likely that this human was passing through while the Core was being built, and whoever was in charge (likely Gaster) allowed them to leave their mark. Also, there's a Tweet from Toby Fox saying that the humans were unable to get *past* Asgore, not *to* him (not sure how to get the source). This implies that at least one made it all the way through the Underground and fought him, but failed to defeat him.

[@Mr.Knightman912]

I'm guessing that all the weapons/items they left in those locations is probably by accident/or they found a better item to replace it. (PATIENCE probably dropped the Toy Knife in that room because (I think) they didn't need it, BRAVERY probably sold their Manly Bandana and Tough Glove to the Shopkeeper in Snowdin because they found something better than the items they were using.) [Note: All of these things I said in this reply ISN'T CANON TO UNDERTALE, it's just a theory I thought of.]

[@kokimotosan]

@@Mr.Knightman912 Bravery probably dint sell his items to the shopkeeper... Since the shopkeeper in snowdin does not buy items.

[@indie_gamer7]

@@kokimotosan Maybe she did in the past, maybe it was another person, maybe they noticed that giving money for trash is not smart.

[@Estra_Estra]

Asgore loves taking walks across the kingdom in the free time ue has so it's possible he could've fought the humans in other places. Toby did confirm Asgore killed them all. After their first deaths though (assuming he didn't delay it like Frisk, which he probably would, or at least later on he'd adapt that), the humans could probably use their save capabilities to avoid engaging with him until later. I mean maybe like, Bravery wouldn't, but y'know.

[@gabrote42]

Yeah! I would link but YT disallows it. "Rip 6 times" was the quote

[@ValueNetwork]

I think the problem comes from the fact that the use of the term village isn’t one with modern connotations in American culture. Even though villages exist the pop culture medieval village is what comes to most people’s minds when they think about a village, Unlike other areas of the world like Europe and Asia where villages are just descriptors for small settlements. If Toby just called the settlement a town it would’ve cleared up alot of confusion.

[@Dorked]

Yeah, I think the use of the word village was deliberate misdirection- since you don't find out that the human in the intro is Chara until the end of Pacifist and don't find out Asriel was born after VHS tapes existed until True Lab. I think he *wanted* people to think this was in ancient times so he could surprise people later.

[@mintw4241]

Yeah i was definitely like “this is an American cultural assumptions thing” when it was brought up.

[@Nai-qk4vp]

@@Dorked Ah, Toby and his wordplay and ambiguous interpretations. Wouldn't surprise me to find out the guy was a linguistics major before being a video game developer.

[@Smitology]

Yeah it's the same thing in Australia. Even the most rural and small settlements are referred to as "towns".

[@P4BL0_C4L10]

@@Dorked problem being, most of us didn't actually found out that

[@psychopomp4135]

Great video! Here’s some of my thoughts: 1.) One piece of evidence that further suggest that UNDERTALE takes place around 100 years after 201X is that when Sans tells the story about how he met Toriel, he states that she laughed at one of his jokes “like it’s the best joke she’s heard in a hundred years.” While initially this may seem like mere hyperbole, when combined with the rest of the evidence you presented, as well as Sans’ general perceptiveness, it lends credence to the notion that UNDERTALE takes place some time in 211X. 2.) Considering that the Waterfall statue resembles a boss monster and plays Memory when you give it an umbrella, I think it’s likely that it-like the Royal Memorial Fountain-is meant to commemorate the death of Asriel and Chara. The statue could simply be an unofficial and independently constructed memorial, made by an anonymous resident of Waterfall. Overall, good research, and I look forward to the next video that you put out.

[@Dorked]

Yeah, I probably coulda included the Sans line you mentioned, and Under Lore mentioned some dialogue from Undyne about the statue stating that nobody knows where it came from or how long it's been there. Oops!

[@robertthepotato6266]

I feel like it probably was hyperbole, since I doubt sans could pick up any specific number other than it just being a long time since sans can’t keep track of your deaths past 11

[@starscream8388]

@@robertthepotato6266 Even as a hyperbole, it would still have to be a long time to them to be such a large number

[@legendarysunshine802]

​@@Dorkedin toby fox interview fangamer he said "in the 211x" when referring to when frisk fell

[@dataexpunged4784]

I wonder if it maybe could've been Gerson who built the Waterfall memorial? He used to be very close with the royal family, is the only monster we know of besides the royal family themselves who would've personally known Asriel and Chara, seeing as they died very long ago, and of course, he lives in Waterfall itself.

[@KurobaroNoMajoAki]

I know for the backstory of a long going RP I had with my friends we made it so that the year Chara fell was the year Undertale released 2015. We then had another human fall roughly every 17 years ending with Frisk's fall in the year 2134. So for our AU/timeline Asriel's death was 119 years ago.

[@Dorked]

Oh, that's an interesting way to calculate it all. :O

[@mjdxp5688]

The only problem with that is it's quite clear there's a gap in time between Frisk falling and the yellow soul falling. Most of the current characters seem to have been born during that gap in time, leading to few knowing what a human is.

[@KurobaroNoMajoAki]

@@mjdxp5688 You raise a good point.

[@arlo9754]

@@mjdxp5688 why do you mention the yellow soul specifically? was it ever stated that they were the last human to fall?

[@mjdxp5688]

@@arlo9754 I guess there's no real confirmed order, but it's generally accepted they were the last to fall based on the fact they made it the furthest, and their soul is the last in the Photoshop Flowey fight.

[@HEHEHE_I_AM_A_SUPAHSTAR_WARRIA]

Speaking of the memorial fountain in Hotland, something I find interesting is that Mettaton only changed it a week ago, which means that those coming through would have likely seen it in its prior form. Granted we're never told what the memorial looked like before, so maybe it wasn't actually a statue built in Asriel and Chara's image, as those like Catty and Bratty who likely have been through the MTT Resort a lot would have likely seen the fountain in its original state and they still don't recognize humans on sight. If it was built in their likenesses, perhaps it fell into a state of disrepair and became unrecognizable as the years went by? Lots of room for interpretations there.

[@TheMastermind7259]

Hope this notifies you, Perhaps the statue haven't ever looked human. Could have only been in it's shape, or more like Asriel rather than human.

[@S0m3B0z0OnTheInternet]

Thank you for making this video! There’s A LOT of Mandela effects in the undertale community such as the supposed void that Gaster is trapped in never being mentioned AT ALL in both undertale and deltarune. I also like how you mentioned that all the other human souls could save and reset just like the player and frisk but simply gave up as a lot of fans seem to forget that Frisk/the player/Flowey aren’t the only ones with that power. Overall you did great explaining the misconceptions in the undertale fandom and I think this’ll help clear up a lot of confusion!

[@Dorked]

Thanks! Funnily the Gaster stuff was the first fandom mandela effect video I did. xD

[@drawingdragon]

I'm pretty late to the fandom, but I just think "void" is the best way to describe Gaster's predicament, since it describes literal nothingness (erasure from time and space) but also has heavy connotations with darkness ("dark, darker, yet darker" "photon readings negative") It's not literal canon, just like Sans being psychic isn't literal canon, it's just the best way to describe the concept to other people I think

[@S0m3B0z0OnTheInternet]

@@drawingdragon Oh yeah no, I very much understand why the fandom came up with this “void” because it makes the most sense as like you described it, means literal nothingness.

[@fernan.valdes]

Great video! I also think its relevant the fact that no monster besides Asgore or Gerson even knew who Toriel was. Only Sans after meeting her through the ruins door. Also, during the date with Sans, he tells that when he first told a joke to Toriel, she laughed so hard, as it was the first joke she heard in 100 years.

[@Dorked]

YEAH, that's true. Undyne was able to deduce that Toriel is Asgore's ex, but otherwise, most monsters just... totally forgot about Toriel. xD

[@felipe_drawmania1604]

@@Dorked They would have known that there was a queen at some point at least. Alphys specifically has seen the tapes so she would at least be able to eventually piece stuff together.

[@midnightpingu7551]

I say for AUs, the timeline of events can be modified as long as everything still makes sense and feels coherent. Now this is the game’s canon however and I don’t blame anybody who got roped into the timeline misconceptions. After all and as Dorked mentioned here, the crucial details to piece somewhat of a timeline together with, exist in optional phone calls, individual object lines or even misdirecting, intended or not.

[@Dorked]

Yeah, fanworks have the freedom to just... do whatever feels cool. xD I'm not judging and I tried to make clear the Asriel + arrows art is still really pretty. It's more that it's so widespread that it muddies the water in a similar way to other fan content and people often forget what was in the base game.

[@chuckeroo777]

Honestly, one of the most confusing things to me is that Imprisonment to Chara seems like several centuries or millennia, while Chara to Frisk is a somewhat shorter timespan. This would suggest a long period of no humans falling, followed by relatively frequent falling humans. I dunno.

[@soluna4784]

y'know, now that i think about it, why was it known on the Surface that people disappeared if they climbed Mt. Ebbott BEFORE Chara fell? aren't they the /first/ fallen human?

[@deniktfa]

@@soluna4784 i thik it was like a story to tell while you sitting near a campfire, JusT to scare kids and all of that, like "oooooh, there is a underground with monsters under the mountain, dont go there little timmy, you will die funkin dumbass"

[@itap8880]

@@soluna4784 I guess some people had "dreams" of someone falling in and not returning.

[@SoməøneXD]

@@soluna4784 it was probably just a rumor planted after the barrier was sealed by the humans that ended up just becoming an old legend they still think that monsters are "evil" so they discouraged people from going by using misdirection (i mean, the monsters never came back after climbing mt. ebbott, so it's not even a lie)

[@soluna4784]

@@SoməøneXD yeah, that works really well Thanks!

[@Solesteam]

3:06 Considering how superstitious people can be, it makes sense that hundreds of years would have had to pass before anyone even gets near the mountain willingly...

[@myownmeadow1320]

Plus, it could also be that the mountain was chosen because of its remoteness, and that there simply wasn't any settlements near it until much later. I think this is also why all the children fell during the same century. The next question is why only children?

[@Solesteam]

@@myownmeadow1320 Because the uh the because if the uh the thing that yeah....

[@Solesteam]

@@myownmeadow1320 I don't have an answer for that.

[@just_an_internet_explorer8038]

@@Solesteam is it even confirmed that they were all children? All I remember is them being labeled as human souls in game.

[@Solesteam]

@@just_an_internet_explorer8038 Did some quick research and it was confirmed, but not ingame, Toby said they were children in an interview.

[@iamtwoawesomes]

I tend to remember the gap between Chara’s 201X fall and Frisk’s, but it often slips my mind that the pacifist credits show a somewhat contemporary looking human city. It’s not a cyberpunk techno-city or post-apocalyptic, but my brain keeps going that direction.

[@BanTskTvaoan]

Maybe that's just the far future's version of a historical district then.

[@SpeedyCheetahCub]

I mean if you saw a picture of New York 100 years ago and compared it to a picture of New York today, it's not as crazy of a difference as you might expect.

[@BanTskTvaoan]

@@SpeedyCheetahCub Another good point on how the city in Undertale could look so modern as opposed to something futuristic.

[@10yearsinthejointguyreal]

​@@SpeedyCheetahCubbut there are still modern cars and bikes on the surface which are things that would be upgraded or even phased out by 50 to 1000 years a head of time. And New York looks ALOT different than it did 100 years ago. Even if this weren't true, take a look at cities like Los Angeles, Sydney, Beijing, Seoul, and Tokyo 100 years ago. They all look VASTLY different in 1924 compared to 2024.

[@myownmeadow1320]

@@10yearsinthejointguyreal Counter point: this could be a relatively old-fashioned and/or remote city, or that stuff like those things simply went back in style. Plus, I don't think Toby would make a full future-esk setting for just end credits - introducing an entire future society in the literal epilog of the game would also distract from the main point of the credits.

[@TotalWhackjob]

You know, I never really thought about each human soul having a single save file before, but that does explain the numbered save files in the Flowey fight. Makes me wonder if there's some meaning to the way we have access to *three* in Deltarune. (Of course, it could just be different "physics" in that world or even... non-subversive game design)

[@poky4669]

For an Undertale Mandela Effect, I'm not sure it qualifies but it certainly makes me think about how KR standing for Karmic Retribution is an entirely fanmade idea, not one based in canon at all. Yet it seems to have become so widespread that people would talk about it like it's completely true. I'm still not sure we have a definitive answer on KR, only that it's possibly short for just the word KARMA based on battle text.

[@bubbleslovely129]

It's probably just karma, like how LV is just level (or love).

[@FroststormFrenzy]

@@bubbleslovely129 LV/LOVE doesn't stand for just "Level", it stands for "Level Of Violence", but yeah, KR likely just stands for Karma.

[@jackmoseley4959]

@@FroststormFrenzy which itself might be an acronym for all we knows. LV being shortened LOVE being shortened Level Of ViolencE

[@RaphielShiraha64]

KR is confirmed to be karma, there is a very rare instance on the game where if you get enough KR on sans fight (the purple thing) the game will say: * Doomed to death by KARMA. There is also early concept art Toby Fox posted on twitter, where it says KARMA.

[@taelim6599]

They even act like it's confirmed fact that KR only affects people with high LOVE

[@PrivateDaisy]

You wouldn't believe how shocked I was, when I realized that the intro cutscene gave a specific date. I forgot about it the moment I saw it and just assumed that Chara lived in some medieval ages or something and Frisk fell to the Underground in modern times. I imagined that monsters were so ahead with technology, they had VHS and phones long before humans and that's why they had something like Mettaton in the game. I actually thought it was cool concept xd Also, I wrote that above before watching. You guessed 50-100 years. I always thought that the amount of time that was needed for 8 different humans to fall to the Underground has to be Gigantic. I mean, how could a thing like that occur in a relatively short amount of time? What is the chance? Humans' police would surely remember those accidents and would try to investigate the mountain, connect the dots. That's why I always thought each human could fall down the mountain in a different century at least. Now I get why so many people are confused about this timeline, it's really nice you made this video

[@TheYeetedMeat]

What if the yellow soul was a policeman?

[@PrivateDaisy]

@@TheYeetedMeat That could be the case. No one said all the souls were kids, but Toriel say she couldn't save a single one. That doesn't say anything clearly, but I believe all of the souls were kids, just diffetent age gaps. Yellow one could be 17-18.

[@delta_0d]

most of the humans who fell down wanted to suicide imo

[@ele_abnormal]

One thing about the timeline that always confused me is whether or not Asgore and Toriel were alive during the human and monster war. Part of me thinks that they weren't, because in the Winter Alarm Clock dialogue, Asgore mentions that he met Rudy at "Hotland University," and naturally I would assume that he was relatively young when he attended university. And, it's obvious that it was in the Underground, after the war, because it's in Hotland. One thing that might be possible is that Asgore was really young during the war. Either that, or he wasn't alive yet. I also would doubt that hundreds of years passed since Asriel's death, because Asgore also says that "Rudy's daughters get to grow up in the sunlight," meaning that they are still young. I don't know how canon the alarm clock dialogue is, but I just thought that it was worth mentioning, lol. Anyone have any opinions on this?

[@Dorked]

See, I interpret the University comment as like... Asgore visited the university, if that makes sense? In Undertale, Monster Kid mentions Asgore visiting their school, so it's possible Asgore made other school appearances. He's always been very social with his people. I see Rudy's death in the UT timeline as him succumbing to his illness because the medical tech wasn't as advanced in UT compared to DR, since all they had to work with was human garbage and they went a LONG TIME without a royal scientist between Alphys and Gaster. Plenty of time for Rudy to kick the proverbial bucket while his children are still young.

[@ele_abnormal]

@@Dorked that makes sense, actually. Thanks for replying :)

[@AiginSongbird426]

I’m certain that they were: in the opening animation depicting the war, Asgore is shown leading the fight for monsters. I can’t recall the exact dialogue at the moment, but there’s something that Toriel said that made me believe that she was queen at the time of the war as well

[@sheogorath6834]

The intro shows Asgore, the storybooks imply he's the one who named Home, and Gerson even mentions he's the one who named the Kingdom. "That's the Delta Rune, the emblem of our kingdom. The Kingdom... Of Monsters. Wahaha! Great name, huh? It's as I always say... Ol' King Fluffybuns can't name for beans!" (Fluffybuns is Asgore) Asgore probably meet Rudy when he was visiting the University of Hotland. We know he visits schools thanks to MK. Regarding Rudy's daughters, who said they were the same age as Asriel...? I'll give an example: Susie (her name is Suzy) is known to exist in UT and is the same age as Frisk. Logically Noelle (or whatever she's called in UT) should also be the same age.

[@sheogorath6834]

@tori "and i dont think the dialogue clock stuff is fully canon. " It is.

[@starbutter2730]

Ik you probably get this alot but I wanted to tell you that I really love listening to your thoughts on these games (KH included). The amount of story and lore throughout all of these series is just awesome and I love how much the creators can get our imaginations racing with their worlds.

[@Dorked]

Eyy, thanks! It's something I have a vested interest in because I do fanfic and fancomics a lot. xD

[@starbutter2730]

@@Dorked Oh that's cool! I love to hear about others getting inspired by these kind of things. Anyway, thanks for clearing up these lore bits for us all😅

[@OctoYT]

I would recommand maybe checking the missconception of the community about Chara, Frisk and the player in Undertale, what are their seperate roles especially in the genocide timeline To this day I'm not sure on what's canon or fanon anymore because of all the fan stuff convering this subject Just an idea ! Very good video keep going Dorked :) Also I still believe humans could have killed Asriel with very rusty weapons after all, all countries don't have lethal weapons like guns allowed so in a little village people like farmers could protect themselves with this kind of weapon, just what they have

[@Dorked]

Yeah, it does depend on a) where Mt. Ebott is, b) what the humans actually had on hand at the time. Though given all the references to American measurement systems and even US currency at points in both Undertale and Deltarune, I feel like Toby might've intended something vaguely American or an anachronistic sorta setting. xD

[@brolytriplethreat]

@@Dorked where is Toby from, actually?

[@benjaminfricke4791]

@@brolytriplethreat New Hampshire, as far as I know.

[@somdudewillson]

Rural areas have guns fairly frequently, on account of how a random rusty weapon won't really protect you against a large wild animal attack.

[@was-here]

​@@Dorked as much as i whould want to agree with you about the US thing its impossible that ebott is in america for many reasons like, the humans in the intro are way to far off from american natives or even 1800 century americans and that whould also be to far in the future for when monster where sealed because we see medival wepons, in my opinion ebott is somewhere in the highlads of the uk and the monster where sealed around 55 b.c shortly after the gaules invaded brittain, they where freaked out by the monsters because they never saw them and decided to kill them along with the natives of anciet brittian, also they may have taken some monster magic to seal them explainig why they have wizards and why magic among humans disapeard, it never was theirs, as for the american refrences it could be bacause of US influence over the uk i whouldn't be surprused if some american things fell in the underground and the monsters just liked them, one last thing, the Monsters being sealed in the past also gives time for them to learn english with the things that fell during their stay as i doubt they just spoke it, english probably killed whatever old language they had.

[@Aurum_impling]

Even if some of them did spawn some neat fan-art over the years, Its good to see someone get around to clearing up some of the timeline misconceptions! This is overall, a very helpful video!- Though, my reasons for finding it as such, may be diferent than someone else's. Thank you for this video, Dorked! ^^ Hopefully this comment is long enough to help ya with that pesky algorithm!

[@waluigiisthebest2802]

Another reason people see Undertale as taking place in modern times is the surface in the credits sequence not looking too different from modern times, to the point where matpat infamously claimed it was the world of earthbound. While obviously not the case, it’s possible it was inspired by earthbound, to an extent. Granted, we don’t know exactly how much technology would improve in 50-100 years from now, and it’s not implausible for it to improve in more subtle ways.

[@thegingerheed]

Gonna just leave a little comment for the Algorithmic purposes. Good to see more misconceptions and non canon interpretations being cleared up! Great video as usual Looking forward to seeing both the Ven and Asgore analysis. When it releases!

[@Dorked]

Eyyy, thanks for the kind words! :)

[@Persona_Random_]

A very informative video! It's always been fun for me to imagine that undertale takes place in the future, with a surface with various technological advances (not too futuristic, since I don't like the idea of ​​monsters encountering a world full of flying cars and holograms xD ).I still think humans would be stunned by alphys dimensional boxes tho. Also, bratty and catty say that it's been thousands of years since the monsters were locked, which could be an exaggeration on their part or that, in fact, that's the accurate time. In that case, poor Asgore and Toriel, they had to wait so long to settle down and have their child...

[@Dorked]

Honestly, I don't think flying cars will ever exist. It'd be way too much of a safety and environmental hazard. Crashes would be devastating in a way that's even worse than on the road, and the exhaust would create so much air pollution. xD So I think a 100 year time jump wouldn't necessarily warrant the kinda futurism you see in the Jetsons, for instance.

[@birb2330]

@@Dorked Cars of the future do not need to be powered by fuel. And Flying is generally the safest form of transport, Because the more people are afraid, the more cautious they are , Same reason for safety in Aircraft Agents, except that Humanity will probably be at Kardashev level 1 in 100 years, so Bruh

[@Dorked]

@@birb2330 The thing is, even with alternative fuel sources, if an accident were to happen in the air, and that vehicle were to fall, it could damage buildings, crush people, harm trees, etc. There are just way too many factors to take into account in a three-dimensional space.

[@birb2330]

@@Dorked Air Vehicles already exist, and probably before vehicles became popular or Possible to purchase for ordinary inhabitants of our planet , It is probably the authorities of Cities or Regions that would prepare for the Possible Problem that will occur in the future, Let's look at the development of Ground Vehicles, and the development took over 30 Years, and used the already available Infrastructure, Not to mention accessibility and the Movement Law then , It's a long-term process, but not impossible, If Flying Cars gained popularity in e.g. 2040 , To 211X it is rather certain that the world would already be prepared for such problems ( This of course doesn't mean there wouldn't be a crash, but it wouldn't be more damaging than today, and the development of AI could solve the problem of human "error's" ) Such a curiosity, Flying Cars have already been created , And several versions of them have been created by various companies, as prototypes, it's just that no one will want to buy them because of the price and how complicated it is to use so far, And Today, alternative power sources for cars have also been created, I'm not talking about electric cars here, but about water cars .

[@HEHEHE_I_AM_A_SUPAHSTAR_WARRIA]

@@birb2330 the thing is flying cars even if they became a thing, would still be very rare as it would require a pilot license to operate those vehicles, and I'm pretty sure those are way harder to obtain than a license for ground based vehicles. In a way helicopters are already flying cars anyway as well

[@GodChaos333]

This was very informative for Undertale. I know a lot more about deltarune as I primarily became a big fan with that game. So it’s good to learn more about Undertale. The timeline is very hard to pin down due to the minimal info we are given and the Chara, Frisk twist.

[@Dorked]

Yeah, I think Toby leaves a lot to the imagination and hides a lot of lore in really obscure places that people have to go out of their way to find at times. xD

[@stormy1303]

Another really great video! Personally when I first got into the Undertale fandom, and saw all this content with Asriel being shot with arrows at some point in the old times, I first regarded it as canon. But eventually, I started thinking about it more and more and realized that him dying during this time genuinely makes no sense. The Dreemurr family recorded videos on a camera during Asriel and Chara's childhood together, as you talked about, and that was what finally caused me to think about if this piece of fanon even makes sense. I didn't even know about the calendar in genocide, but just the pure fact that the Dreemurr family tapes exist made me reconsider the idea that Asriel died so long ago and not somewhere in the 2010's.

[@RossOriginals]

I live in a village, it's weird to me that people think they're just a thing of the past.

[@shawn1541]

Honestly in my fanfics I wrote that Asriel and Chara died in the past (maybe roughly in the 1920s) bc I had a harder time imagining Human civilization lasting another century without imploding than the concept of magical creatures lol.

[@ashethedestroyer5114]

Prohibition chara

[@was-here]

​@@ashethedestroyer5114 Nazi clover

[@ender691]

2:24 this is funny because I litterally live in a village (or at least it was a village when my family moved here in 2016. Since then it's grown substantially, but the last time the population was recorded was in 2016, so I'm not sure if it's still a village or not)

[@para9938]

One thing to remember too is that when backtracking in true pacifist, Gerson mention that Asgore (and Toriel) as boss monsters only age as long as they have a child, and since then he have been stuck at the same age and would outlive any adoptive child. Between this and the "first time in a hundreds years" comment from Sans, and the winter alarm clock where Asgore comment having lived through Rudy getting a wife then children, and that on his death-bed Rudy was commenting about now being older than Asgore, it lengthen a lot of the timeline and we can really wonder if Asgore was already king during the war. Not to mention the construction of New Home, who is a crowded Capital, started after the first fallen's fall (since it's outright said in Asriel's story taled by monsters that they fell in the ruins).

[@Nai-qk4vp]

That last part is an interesting hypothesis that I have never seen anyone explore. Remember, the monsters telling the tale of Asriel-due to factors attestted by Dorked here- most likely did not live through those events. They refer to the place Chara fell as the "Ruins"-the old capital of Home- but it could be that it was still inhabited back then. Because if it wasn't and the Dreemurrs had already relocated to New Home when this happened, one has to wonder why Asriel would be so far away from his domicile, alone when Chara fell. Interesting to think that maybe Chara's fall and all that came with it "the Undergound filled with hope" that's when the monsters no longer feared human attacks and populated the parts of the Underground we see during the game itself.

[@mill2712]

@tori This comment thread now has me more interested in the ruins than I already was.

[@Sophie-eg8rq]

I also think that bows and arrows are much more "romantic" than guns. It's also easier to represent arrows than bullet wounds, in a visual/fanart sense.

[@Spino-hx2mr]

Pretty easy to depict gunshot wounds, they're also brutal enough to be seen. Also exaggerated.

[@Erimgard13]

When Sans talks about meeting Toriel and telling her jokes, he remarks that she laughed "like it's the best joke she's heard in a hundred years." Not definitive of course, but Sans tends to be quite perceptive, and it lines up with the Papyrus date.

[@S1eth]

The description for the toy knife is: "Made of plastic. A rarity nowadays." which seems to suggest humanity has or is running out of oil.

[@Dorked]

Yeah, that or monsters don't have a lot of plastic due to having to pull from garbage, but either way it's interesting!

[@ashethedestroyer5114]

@@Dorkedwell it could imply the knife is a rarity rather than the plastic with the omission of a comma and instead the use of a period, but Toby isn’t perfect

[@mill2712]

There's also the chance that plastic was simply obsolete by the time of Frisk's arrival. We are trying to move away from plastic and carbons after all. And we made some pretty good strides today.

[@madethisjusttocomment]

I put the 201X date up to the underground using a different calendar/dating system. Bear in mind the Julian one used in the west is timed off the position of the sun through the year, hence why stuff like the solstices fall at (roughly) the same time year to year. It's _possible_ they could continue using it; but keeping accuracy'd require much calculation + record keeping over significant timescales, not to mention that many reasons for keeping it (like planting crops in the right season) kinda become irrelevant when you're trapped under a mountain. Personally I think 201X might be measured from the creation of the barrier (feels like it's the best "year 0" candidate). but with how invariant the underground is (same king, seemingly no seasonal variation, etc) I suspect timekeeping itself might've become an irrelevant practice.

[@Dorked]

I've seen the other calendar system argument a few times. The main reason I don't buy into it personally is because the games that inspired Toby's work used vague dates. Mega Man, for instance, uses the exact same date format of X being a variable to represent a number- e.g. 200X, 20XX, 21XX. That and with VHS predating Asriel's birth and Chara falling in the 2010's, it's reasonable enough to date things back to the 90's/early 2000's even before Asriel was born, since human trash is the basis of monster technology, if that makes sense. But it is true that measuring time might differ- then again, the barrier does let the sunlight reach the throne room, at least, and the ruins also gets sunlight.

[@waluigiisthebest2802]

One thing about Deltarune is that, with a few odd exceptions like Asriel and Snowdrake, Deltarune seems to have been deliberately set up as looking like a sequel to Undertale that takes place several years after the true pacifist route. With monster kid being older, and Kris resembling an older frisk and all. Granted this is done as a deliberate red herring until we realize the subtle differences between Undertale, like Alphys liking mew mew kissy 2, lack of magic use in the light world, and sans not recognizing us. But I wonder if this is done for more than just a red herring, as characters from Deltarune are implied to exist in the Undertale universe as well, like Suzy (assuming it’s supposed to be Susie), and Noelle. So there’s definitely a connection between the universes, we just don’t have enough information to tell exactly how. Also, the Manuel is unused, and it’s from a rather early stage of development, given it references cut mechanics. But Toby mentioned he’s not sure if it’s still canon or not, although a similar drawing to the Manuel cover is seen if you brutally cut open a Ralsei plush. And it’s possible Ralsei got the date wrong, or made the Manuel a while ago.

[@erikcat2.036]

Deltarune is probably undertale if the human monster war never happened

[@Fungo4]

Speaking of timelines, what do people think of the idea that the events of Undertale take place over one day? The time spent at Home is indeterminate, but you get to spend lunch with Sans, go on an afternoon TV show, spend "dinner" with Sans, see twilight shining through the barrier, and then finally leave the underground at sunrise. Dunno if this is a common idea or not, I thought it up but never asked others about it.

[@countjoelcula]

For a while, I was unsure of the time period where Chara died. The word "village" did bring to mind a medieval time period, but that was already called into question by the existence of the vhs tapes. Guess I just didn't think too deeply into it. But this vid is very insightful. Very analytical.

[@sandwich2473]

New Dorked video!! I remember people getting furious at me because I believed that the whole chara events probably happened less than maybe 20 years ago, max

[@Dorked]

Yeah, in terms of the Undertale timeline, Chara fell in the 2010's. xD Undertale itself likely talks place in our *future*, comparatively.

[@Quackervoltz]

Yeah I feel like UT takes place in the 2040's at most. 2100s is just a bit too long for me

[@soluna4784]

@@Quackervoltz fair enough, but also if that was the case, how do you explain seemingly no action taken by human authorities to investigate and/or seal off in some way the entrance to the Underground? eight kids disappearing from around the mountain, average 2 or so years in between? someone must've done something

[@Quackervoltz]

@@soluna4784 I think that in some cases, it might not be known they actually were around the mountain. Missing children cases are weird man.

[@deadlyadder2330]

that doesn't make sense though, barely any one knows what a human looks like in under tale

[@Hawbitten]

I'd picked up on a lot of these things. It just seems weird that the game apparently takes place 100 years in the the future for no reason. It would have to because if the game's setting was the same as its release date in late 2015 all the drama from Chara falling down to the date of the game's start would have happened in less than six year, with one human falling down a year, which can't be the case for the reasons you mentioned. I think another reason why Asriel's death is often assumed to be in the long past is the humans are described as landing blows on him, like they're using, swords, farm tools or even their own fists. No mention of guns or shooting. It's worded to sound like it happened in the far distant past. One also has to wonder if this would mean there was camera phone footage of a monster holding a dead child all over the internet. That would rather sour the monsters return the surface. Even knowing the true timeline. I like the idea of a timeline where Asriel and Chara lived in the 1910s and Undertale takes place in 2015 more. It fits the fairy tale tone better.

[@Dorked]

I think Toby was deliberately pulling a bait and switch with the vague wording since Chara being the human who fell in 201X is a late game plot twist, so I do feel that. I just feel like with VHS tapes predating Asriel, the olden times vibe just doesn't add up. xD

[@marcelinepink]

I genuinely had to stop watching this video because I almost started crying just by thinking about undertale with the music sounding on the background. I don't know what it is about this game that hits me so hard, I haven't been able to play it for a long time because I know I'll just cry again. I feel like undertale hits a very special spot in my heart, and many others, because it manages to make me feel melancholic even though there is no reason for me to, but I guess that's the power of a soundtrack. I can only hope that Deltarune manages to do something similar, but honestly I think it's impossible to fight against something as simple and yet melancholic as Undertale.

[@RaphielShiraha64]

Talking about popular fandom mandela effect, will you do one about how people say sans remember resets, can time stop and that papyrus like eating spaghetti?

[@Nakia11798]

Papyrus definitely likes spaghetti. Idk about eating it, but during the date with him, he seems pretty impressed if you can make spaghetti.

[@RaphielShiraha64]

@@Nakia11798 I never said he don't like spaghetti, i'm saying he don't eat it, in fact in a official FAQ papyrus state he never have eat spaghetti before, he just like cooking it to other people, which is probably the reason he never noticed his spaghetti taste bad.

[@prismaux5168]

Really good video! Love seeing discussion about more obscure parts of the story like this

[@oranjaglad8648]

Very interesting! I kinda wish we knew more about what Undertale’s surface was like, even if we’re given glimpses in the Pacifist credits.

[@WonderSealYT]

Fun Fact: The year that Earthbound/Mother 2 is set in is “199X”, which means that Toby added the year that Chara fell as 201X as an Earthbound reference.

[@kovexplay]

Yes, I have been waiting for this video since you first started talking about it on twitter :) I don't really have much to say other than that I was also mixed on the timeline. Why is the world so much into the future, yet doesn't really feel like it? Thanks for clearing things up!

[@Dorked]

I think we see so little of the surface by design, tbh. All we get are some distant skyscrapers, a beach, and Toriel's school. The rest is left up to the imagination.

[@alphaamoeba]

Also the plot twist of the intro being about chara and not frisk wouldnt work if the game made it clear 201X was a long time ago

[@KinokoFry]

Great video, thanks! I tend to think the nose nuzzling trophy isn’t just establishing when A/T we’re together and happy, but that they were probably crazy affectionate at that time, and probably quite eager to have a baby, so I think it’s a strong hint that Asriel was probably born soon after.

[@TheRealSuperKirby]

Monsters use a mixes of medieval, modern, and futuristic stuff, so there's no reason to assume humans in undertale don't do the same, or that they have to be accurate to reality, of course nothing too crazy as frisk comments on alphys' "history collection" being inaccurate.

[@drawingdragon]

That's my favorite interpretation - just an eclectic otherworldy fantasy world with traits of all time periods

[@darklink7850]

Good video! For the longest time (about two or three years), much to my regret, I've always believed that 201X was when Undertale took place, and that monster technology aged much quicker than humanity's. But when I eventually deduced that 201X was Chara and Asriel's time, I felt like a big dummy lmao. I now personally believe in headcanon that it's been a full century since 201X in Undertale, respectably. With that being said, I do hope your video especially helps others like me clear out the misunderstandings and misconceptions of Undertale's timeline!

[@Dorked]

I feel like one year is a bit too short, though. Six humans had to fall and monsters also had to forget what humans look like, y'know? That's why I think decades at minimum makes the most sense with what we know. Thanks, btw!

[@darklink7850]

OH I DIDN'T MEAN TO SAY YEAR I MEANT CENTURY. OOPS.

[@bionicboxes]

Joke Theory to resolve people's problem of how the surface looks in the pacifist ending: time in the underground flows differently than it does on the surface. Hundreds of years in the underground amount to only a few decades at most on the surface. If you wanna get real crazy with it, who's to say the order of the humans falling in the underground had to have actually happened on the surface linearly? Maybe some of the humans did fall down 'before' Chara but didn't arrive until 'after' them because of time-space nonsense. I mean, time-space is already weird in the Underground due to human's ability to reset in it, and you can see it breaking down in a way with in the true lab. So why not push that further?

[@diegolopesme]

i think the surface and the underground are 2 different places with different rules that is why the game doesnt suddenly end because some random achived lV 20 and ended everything

[@randombutter9703]

One Mandela effect I didn’t realize until recently is how most people depict Asriel as wearing khaki or blue pants, but I rarely seem to find him with black pants like his sprite. This applies to sans’ slippers being known by the fandom as pink, despite no sign of pink on sans’ sprite. But we knew that one already.

[@trappedcosmos]

Pink sans slippers are canon

[@randombutter9703]

@@trappedcosmos not to his original sprite design, it does show him with slippers but the color is white. The super smash bros and official merchandise does have pink slippers so it could have been that it would be hard to add but it seems more like the idea was way more popular than the white slippers they made the slippers pink in later depictions.

[@trappedcosmos]

@@randombutter9703 sans slippers only appear in battled which are black and white

[@randombutter9703]

@@trappedcosmos exactly, and his overworld sprite shows no pink at all Edit: a good example of this working for other characters is on papyrus’ over world sprite he’s wearing red boots, the color is clearly red or orange depending on how you see it. It matches up with his black and white battle sprite. Toriels sprite shows white where shoes should be which leads to assume she’s either wearing white shoes or no shoes, this lines up with her battle sprite showing that she isn’t wearing shoes.

[@trappedcosmos]

@@randombutter9703 Or he just isn't wearing shush slippers on his overlord sprite

[@luizzeroxis]

I never thought about the fact that those are VHS tape recordings in 201X, so it has to be at least the 80's in our timeline.

[@mill2712]

Though you have to remember, the monsters got our second hand technology from the trash. A VHS tape may be more state of the art to them while being outdated to us. (However you can very well still find and use them today if you preserved them well enough or looked at a electronics store.) Also it might have just have been Asgore and Toriel using them. They are old monsters after all so they probably aren't as tech savvy as other monsters. (Or they just like using older things. Think of your grandparents.)

[@mill2712]

Though you do have a point. 201X could be a date in their calendar. Not ours. When you think about it, it isn't too far fetched. There are multiple calendars even across cultures and religions here so the monsters having their own calendar and year measurement would seem likely especially when they were isolated in Mt. Ebott for who knows how long.

[@ShadowFox_fr]

Also when checking the toy knife,frisk says:”made of plastic,a rarity now a days”,wich means that the world has evolved enough to even have eliminated plastic.

[@W.d_Gaster]

A small headcanon I have, Frisk fell on September 15th 2115 as it would be Undertale's 100th anniversary

[@JokieJesterE]

havnt watched the full video yet so idk if you covered this, but if you inspect the plastic knife. it refers to how plastic is 'rare nowadays'

[@ashethedestroyer5114]

Well, not necessarily

[@mmiov]

This is the best video that I've seen done on the matter, well done! Too bad that it debunks some of my ideas but hey, there's always AUs for that! lol. (Side note: I wonder if you can do a video on Chara, probably the most misunderstood character in the fandom.)

[@HEHEHE_I_AM_A_SUPAHSTAR_WARRIA]

Imagine Flowey on the surface, excited to visit this cool city Chara told him about, only to discover that city is now half buried below the sea...

[@HEHEHE_I_AM_A_SUPAHSTAR_WARRIA]

@tori no I mean a different city

[@FPLester]

here's another thing to add about dogamy and dogaressa being #2 nuzzle champs 98, it is very much possible that the "98" could be referring to an entirely different century (such as 2098, 2198, etc) after toriel and asgore won back in 1998

[@natkaye2776]

I made a post on my tumblr recently about how weird it is that the fandom thinks Chara's personality is a sassy little shit who swears and screams a lot and calls everyone 'idiot' like Flowey, when No Mercy narration paints them as being more cold, distant, and direct. If you have any further thoughts on that or things I missed, I'd be very interested to see a video on that subject

[@FireglobeProductions]

I think it depends. If you take narrator theory into account, then Chara can be sassy and snarky, and their coldness in the geno run is simply a result of that run and the growing distance/coldness that naturally comes from high LV (Sans even says that the more you kill, the easier it becomes to distance yourself).

[@Nai-qk4vp]

I like to think that in a world where Chara got to live and address whatever was the source of their misanthropy, they grew up to be a formal, stern and seemingly distant person, not hostile very matter-of-fact person that when you get to know beyond the surface, actually cares a lot. And also still is uncomfortable showing vulnerability and especially crying to all but those closest to them.

[@Lysuko]

i think Undertale takes place far FAR into the future like 2100 maybe even 201X was obvious misdirection by invoking a date close to US but not necessarily to the characters

[@dededeletethis9940]

I think i might have a topic for a future episode of Fandom Mandela Effect: Chara. Just how much are they involved in your Undertale playthrough? Fancontent will tell you that Chara takes over Frisk’s body and forces them to do the genocide run, but is that really what’s happening? Fans will tell tales about Chara’s relationship with Asriel and how it was either extremely toxic or extremely wholesome, but what was it actually like? How did Chara actually feel about their monster family? And what exactly happens at the end of a soulless pacifist run? Does Chara take over and kill everyone, or is there something more here that the Fandom has missed or ignored? Chara is one of the more mysterious characters in Undertale, so there are a lot of misconceptions here that i hope you tackle eventually

[@paradoxicaloutcome1007]

There seems to be this misconception in the fandom that Asriel in the Pacifist ending hates Chara and everything they stood for and warns Frisk to be nothing like them. The problem is, Asriel himself only says that Chara "wasn't the greatest person", admits that his choices also weren't perfect, and ends up settling into a philosophy that seems like it's meant to be middle ground. He tells us "Don't kill, and don't be killed" and says that not everything can be resolved by being nice. That would be nice for a Mandela Effect episode.

[@NeiroYT]

6:19 hearing umineko ost in random places makes my day better

[@Scolipendra]

Sans says something that might hint it's been over a century since the last human fell. Something to the effect of Toriel laughing so hard at his joke that "it was like it's the funniest joke she's heard in a hundred years." Then again I could be reading too much into it, but a century does sound about right, since only a few monsters recognize Frisk as a human.

[@My_gatt_is_ballin]

Yes it’s 2024 > 201X but the first human it could’ve been but at earliest somewhere around 1926~ because that was when was colored sweaters were made I’m pretty sure

[@S0me_Ind1vidual]

It was always a one-striped shirt. People just didn't take a closer look.

[@GreyVictory1510]

Thank you for reminding me! I never saw the Yen Sid video in my abo box or just overlooked it when it released. Adding this to my watchlist now. Have been looking forward to it after that excellent Terra video.

[@ExoticCritter]

Chara is in the intro which happened in 201X, so Frisk’s journey takes place in the future. That said, while the bow thing likely stems from a misconception about how far back Asriel’s death was, bows ARE still used today (just this week I had someone try to convince me hunting with bows was superior to gun based hunting- longer season, they have a higher success rate, etc.) So while guns are more likely, a bow headcanon for Asriel would still be feasible even if technology progressed at the same rate as real life. I’d also like to add that even today some towns officially refer to themselves as “villages.”

[@FireglobeProductions]

It's definitely not that archery doesn't exist today- more that the imagery associated with pictures like that often place his death in a more medieval time. It's just uncommon to have 'em readily on hand, if anything.

[@ExoticCritter]

That’s why I specifically said that it likely STEMS from the misconception it takes place further past. I fully acknowledged the reason the headcanon exists is because of that misconception. However, that doesn’t mean the headcanon is wrong- we DO still use bows very frequently today (I know people who do casually have them on hand- mostly deer hunters).

[@FireglobeProductions]

@@ExoticCritter Ah, fair enough! It would probably depend on the region and the community.

[@bradigan]

Very cool video! I never really thought much about the timeline before.

[@damiondraws8538]

My personal head cannon is that pre-barrier, the monsters were sealed by native Americans before America was “discovered”. Doing some pixel measurements shows that the sword held in the cutscene by the human is technically short enough to be the sort of long knife/short sword that did technically exist in that era

[@DreamersOfReality]

But why does it have to take place in America at all? It's most likely that it's an alternate fantasy world, if I'm being honest.

[@retroaspectgaming]

I'm glad at least you know that the story takes place in more modern times

[@Missingno_Miner]

One thing I don't see enough people mention when talking about Undertale's timeline compared to Deltarune's is Rudy. In Deltarune, Rudy is the same age as Toriel and Asgore, as they were friends in college. In Undertale, however, we learn from the alarm clock dialogue that Asgore met Rudy at Hotland University. Since Asgore was already a war veteran and king by the time Hotland university could have been founded, this means that the Dreemurr parents were born much later in Deltarune(despite presumably being physically older based on Asriel's age). We can push this further: In Deltarune, Asriel and Kris grew up with Dess and Noelle, yet in Undertale, there's no indication that Toriel ever met Rudy, and it is likely that Asriel and Chara died well before Asgore and Rudy met, let alone before Rudy had kids. In Undertale, Asgore fought in a war that seemingly never happened in the Deltarune timeline, and lived anywhere from decades to millennia prior to Rudy's birth, yet in Deltarune they're the same age. In Deltarune, Asriel is implied to be roughly the same age as Rudy's older daughter, yet in Undertale, it's very likely that Asriel would have been similar in age to Rudy had he lived, if not considerably older. All of this, ignoring the monsters who are older than Asriel in Deltarune despite having been born at least decades after his death in Undertale. We know for a fact that the two timelines don't align, and the discrepancies date back anywhere between decades ago to all the way back in the BCE years, depending on when the war was. Even ignoring all the other inconsistencies, if we assume that the 202X date is actually canon and that Deltarune is set in 202X(which is reasonable, perhaps Asriel's birth year is one of the ones that remain consistent between the two universes.), this still obviously wouldn't be applicable to Undertale. Even if we use the most extreme dates of 2010 for 201X and 2029 for 202X, this still gives less than 18 years between Chara and Frisk, since Chara fell in late 201X and so assuming they died any earlier than late 2011 would be unrealistic, as they needed time to bond with Asriel. 18 years simply isn't long enough for the average monster to be unaware of what humans look like, especially with six humans falling in that relatively short time span, meaning most monsters would be old enough to remember at least four or five of them, and Undyne would have personally fought several, and it's definitely not long enough for Chara's name to seemingly be completely forgotten by the general populace. Combined with the mountain of evidence supporting that Frisk arrived sometime around 211X or 212X, and all the other inconsistencies, there is literally no reason to try to compare the timelines of the two universes to each other.

[@PsychicGnome]

This is one of those things that's hard to figure out even when paying attention.

[@maxtube1952]

I've spent so long flabbergasted at the possibility Chara was born 1700's. I guess I looked at the fact the Justice Soul belonged to supposedly a cowboy? Like...with a gun. That makes me think they were from the wild west, which'd be the 1800's, and I'm pretty sure the Souls all fell in opposite order you discover them so it checks out. But now I'm even more flabbergasted that UNDERTALE MAY TAKE PLACE AT THE SAME TIME AS FALLOUT.

[@Dorked]

xD I think people forget that cowboy hats are still commonly worn today. A lot of farmers wear them, for instance, and people in desert regions. And your country western singers and all that.

[@maxtube1952]

@@Dorked As I mentioned, the gun was really what confused me, not the hat. I mean, I assume all the fallen humans are children, or at least young, right? Why would someone young have a gun if not living in the 1800's? But I mean, I suppose we don't know *how* young, or if they're even close to "child," so...

[@RaphielShiraha64]

@@maxtube1952 You're forgetting the fact, it's not a actual gun and is instead a TOY gun, a kid that is a child of a farmer or something, wearing a cowboy hat and playing with a toy gun is not something weird.

[@maxtube1952]

@@RaphielShiraha64 Is it? I don't remember it being explicitly stated to be one in-game.

[@RaphielShiraha64]

@@maxtube1952 Yeah sorry about it, i confused it with toy knife, i thought it was called toy gun for some reason.

[@gabrote42]

I didn't know these misconceptions still existed. I must have read too much of your blog and Determinator's ^^

[@Dorked]

Yeah, the wider fandom often isn't aware of these things as much as the deep lore brainrot side of things. xD

[@gabrote42]

@@Dorked Word. GL on your project and hoping the /vg/ dudes dodge the fandom fast.

[@bluequacker]

Okay, Chara fell in 201x, but what about the other humans? The other 6 souls? Chara was only the first human to fall, so maybe the events of Undertale take place even more far into the future than we thought lmao

[@Dorked]

Yeah, that's why 100 years later is my estimate for UT. And I've seen others go with even longer timespans to account for the other humans.

[@ashethedestroyer5114]

Frisk’s life takes place in 281X

[@TeamGalactic-Cyrus]

Nice video! I just found your channel and you're seriously underrated. That should be an AU. Underrated. WAIT YOU OWN INVERTED FATE? I LOVE THAT!

[@ClonedGamer001]

My only question is that if the actual gameplay of Undertale takes place in the future, why does the city at the end look exactly like a modern city you'd see today? I'm not expecting weird helix-shaped glass towers or anything but if it's somewhere between 2060 and 2100 there should be some amount of noticeably different architecture on at least some of the buildings, right?

[@Dorked]

I feel like the buildings are distant enough and stylized enough that it doesn't completely break the logic, at least. xD We don't see enough of the human civilization to really know for sure, I'd say.

[@ClonedGamer001]

@@Dorked Fair enough

[@plasticballs]

@@Dorked you do see a bridge in the true pacifist epilogue and papyrus has a muscle car

[@okEanra]

ive been trying to find a video clearing this up for so long tysm

[@Dorked]

Ah, no prob! Happy to help. :)

[@violetnocte]

I always thought of Chara falling in modern times, but before that, they lived in a place that still looks like the past (i.e. they don't have a lot of modern technology, strict gender roles, etc.) hence "village" despite being a kid who, if they were real, would've died only a few years ago.

[@wordart_guian]

villages just describes any small settlement outside the US, i live in a village for example (about 2k inhabitants, a church, a school and a few shops, a few kilometers away from a large metropolis but i'd never describe it as a "town" it's a village)

[@mysticeeye]

I've been on a binge watching your content, and have been loving the quality of the videos and admiring the amount of research you've put into each video! I was wondering though if you'd be interested in talking about the world-building of undertale and (possible?) unintentional world-building implications using jokes- For instance the description on the spider cider, while a joke implying cannibalism, was still thought out in it's implication with Muffet making references to it. Or, how we know some monsters like Toriel and Asgore eat snails, with snail farms that exist, and how the snails, _that are for consumption_ , *are also sentient.* You have no clue how much these snails have been driving me insane, with the several possible disturbing implications, that I'm 99% sure, are all unintentional results from a joke Toby wanted to make with talking snails.

[@vogonp4287]

Monsters may just use the term "village" to describe small settlements in general.

[@MagentaSnail]

my headcanon is that dogamy and dogeressa, and I guess the rest of the dogs, age 1 year for every 7 human years (the opposite to regular dog years) or that they got 2nd place at 2098 while asgore and toriel won in 1998, but that's less fun

[@owengonzalez6819]

My own theory was that Frisk fell down in 2015, Undertale’s release, and that 201X was the few years before. However, monsters not recognizing humans does make a big plot hole. I do have to question how Sans knows Frisk is a human giving he probably never saw a human. Fantastic video, though! I wanted to see a video discussing Undertale’s timeline.

[@sludgeskin]

sans knows alot more about timelines than the average monster, he is similar to flowey in that way. he also has his lab that indicates that he's informed scientifically just like alphys is

[@blank_home1229]

@@sludgeskin i think it's more because he promised toriel to protect a human if they left the ruins. sans probably just connected the dots that frisk was a human.

[@rafsandomierz5313]

@@blank_home1229 Sans actually is fascinated with sience his "joke" book is actually a book about physics/quantum physics as the description states. He also has the ability to make void from his room even if he's not there and is one of the monsters that can teleport.

[@blank_home1229]

@@rafsandomierz5313 i know about the science thing. i wasn't saying that he wasn't knowledgeable, i was saying that toriel told him about the human. also, making a void from his room? i think that's just called turning the lights off.

[@rafsandomierz5313]

@@blank_home1229 What about trash tornado?

[@damiondraws8538]

The fact that no other humans are shown to exist on the surface makes it feel like some weird apocalypse. No other cars on the road, no one else on the beach. Only the freed monsters. It’s so weird to me.

[@DreamersOfReality]

The monsters built their own civilization, maybe? But it is weird...

[@forkalamari6093]

I’m kiiiinda shocked that people don’t believe that 201X was when Chara fell?? There’s a calendar in the game that STATES 201X, and it is stated to be OLD. Also quick question: when do you think Frisk fell? How much of a gap is there between Chara’s (implied) suicide attempt and Frisk’s fall? Also another Mandela effect is that Mystery Man is confirmed to be Gaster. We KNOW he was shattered across time and space, so Mystery Man is only a PART of him, if he even IS him. I do believe that the Mystery Man is part of Gaster, but many people also forget about Redacted and the Gaster follower with “a piece of him.”

[@Dorked]

FUNNY STORY. The Gaster stuff was the first Fandom Mandela Effect video I did. xD There I did touch upon the Mystery Man subject. And personally, I go with ~100 years, but I think anywhere from 50 - 100+ is reasonable enough.

[@forkalamari6093]

@@Dorked yeah lol, I forgot about that- I do believe it could be anywhere from 75-150 years apart. Especially since Papyrus, who ISN’T immortal and should be dead if he was born in the 90s, has his name as COOLSKELETON95, dating his birth to (presumably) 2095.

[@Dorked]

@@forkalamari6093 It really depends on monster lifespans, mind you. We don't know a lot about that other than Dogamy and Dogaressa were around before Chara and Asriel's birth and the canine unit's parents only recently "fell down".

[@forkalamari6093]

@@Dorked also ANOTHER question: why does Flowey not know about the other humans saving? He CLEARLY remembers saves, unless… he only seems to retain SOME memory??

[@Dorked]

@@forkalamari6093 Simple: he never met the other humans. He was made after the six souls were collected. xD

[@internetidiot9877]

honestly the idea that Asriel just got shot with a gun is really funny to me

[@stoplookingatthisyougleepy]

Unrelated but I didn't know the ruins dummy was a character and thought there were only three ghosts.

[@Dorked]

The Ruins Dummy is technically a character but a very understated one. We only know it's its own character because it tires of your aimless shenanigans and because Mad Dummy/Mew Mew mentions them.

[@stoplookingatthisyougleepy]

@@Dorked I thought that she was only mentioning Napstablook, and the "aimless shenanigans" thing was a joke.

[@Dorked]

@@stoplookingatthisyougleepy Nah, Blooky acts like they never met you when you first encounter them in the Ruins. I think the Ruins Dummy is just another unseen ghost who is quieter and... that's really all we know, since later releases focused more on her relationship to Blooky instead.

[@yukimura4574]

I'm pretty skeptical about it being SO far in the future, it just seems to me like an effort to cryptically hide something that... doesn't add or mean much to the story, to be completely honest. Like, if they wanted to make it clear, it'd be as simple as giving a dialogue to some characters like Sans or Toriel, something on the lines of "No human has fallen here in at least 100 years" or something like that. Or at least, they could've made the surface backgrounds in the credits look more futuristic. Like, sure, you can argue that "maybe the future of a 100+ years doesn't look so different from our present time" if you want. But from an artistic design perspective, it doesn't make sense. If you want people to feel in a fictional futuristic story, the natural thing is to make a fictional futuristic environment. They don't even mention stuff like this or even hint in it other sources like the art book. You could argue they're just being secretive about it like a lot of things like Chara or Gaster, which are still unclear. But why do that with *this*? Practically, it doesn't change anything. Whether the distant future theory was true or not, the story's main structure would remain the same, so what'd be the point of hiding something like that? And yes, monsters have technology like the CORE and stuff, but this is a world where magic exists. The Underground society has always used magic for their daily life, so I don't see why they couldn't have used that in their favor and just be more technologically advanced than humans. IDK, I'm just not convinced. I feel like too many inconsistencies pop up if we interpret Undertale as if it takes place in the distant future. It makes more sense to me with just a 20-50 year gap.

[@gonerdenji]

this makes the asgore situation even worse Spend more than 50 years without being able to overcome his suffering and knowing that technically he kills souls several times (since he is not surprised because you tell him that you died) That without adding the suffering of Toriel for knowing that children died for letting them go

[@Dorked]

Yeah, both Toriel and Asgore are deeply tragic characters in their own way and the whole situation is a hot mess. I plan to discuss this a bit more in my Asgore analysis whenever that comes out.

[@gonerdenji]

@@Dorked That sounds great Hopefully one day they will release a plush of Asgore

[@CooISkeleton96]

A common misconception is that papyrus loves and is OBSESSED with spaghetti, when it’s shown he likes all types of pastas and other foods Update: also he hasn’t even tried spaghetti and just makes it cause everyone else likes it, his favorite food is oatmeal with Dino marshmallows in it!

[@kau_for_thee_8567]

In my opinion,Undertale takes place 10 years,so around 202X.As such,if we were to take Papyrus's and Undyne's usernames's numbers(CoolSkeleton95 and StrongFish91),Paps and Undyne would be born in 209X,which would make them around his early twenties,which makes me wonder if that would help in solving the actual timeframe somehow.

[@Dorked]

See, my issue is that 10 years feels way too brief considering nearly all of the adult monsters cannot recognize humans, and many also say that Chara and Asriel died a long time ago. That plus six humans having to fall and for Ebott to gain such a dangerous reputation.

[@ashethedestroyer5114]

Monsters live for hundreds of years

[@eneaganh6319]

4:50 There are some monsters we know die by old age or desease like Gerson in deltarune and Noelle's father in both ut and dr

[@eldricshadowchaser5454]

Hmm, how about one on Sans and his lack of actual ability to remember the resets?

[@Dorked]

I think that's definitely a topic worth discussing at some point!

[@Persona_Random_]

That would be neat! It's such a frequent misconception in our fandom...

[@jackmoseley4959]

It’s especially silly when he or anyone is able to remember a true reset or when anyone who isn’t the fallen child remembers a successful genocide run

[@An_Account1]

The thing that bothers me the most about Undertale timeline misconceptions is people trying to fit Deltarune into the timeline even though it's a different timeline. The presence of Asriel/most other characters are used to argue that Deltarune takes place before/after Undertale, even though Asriel can't exist alongside the other characters.

[@srfrancium9728]

Fanon: Frisk is gen Z Canon: Chara is gen Z

[@fruitloops2058]

Oh so that's why they hated humanity

[@gristen]

5:14 im not so sure the other fallen humans had the ability to reload save files or if they could i dont think its something that was inherent to all humans. we know that only the being with the most determination has the save ability so not all humans would be capable of it despite having significantly more determination than monsters. my theory on how saving works is that its something that only a souless being that has gained access to determination is capable of doing. flowey becomes capable of saving after the flower that absorbed his essence is injected with determination, likewise i believe chara (who's soul disappeared along with asriel's and who the save file is named after) is able to save after attaching themself to a human soul that contains determination when frisk falls on top of their grave. frisk and chara share a soul color, as hinted by the coffin in new home, which may be why chara was able to attach themself to frisk. we can assume chara is attached to frisk even in neutral and pacifist routes because not only does the save file and battle UI bear their name, we're also able to experience flashbacks from their point of view at the beginning, in waterfall, and during the last battle. im also of the personal opinion that during the last battle the "someone else" that we save is chara because this is what triggers chara's flashback, only afterwards is the option to save asriel presented to us. but going back to my main point, if chara is only capable of saving while attached to another human with the same soul color then i think its very unlikely that the other humans had the ability to save. even if chara was able to attach to the other humans despite the different soul colors, we know they obviously didnt have enough determination due to the fact that they eventually died and didnt continue their saves, which brings to question if they even had the ability in the first place. its been my assumption for awhile now that chara only woke up when frisk fell, or sometime after flowey woke up and started calling for them as hinted by his genocide dialog, but now that i think about it we dont quite have a clear answer on this. the only thing that chara themself says about this is that they were confused when they first woke up and couldnt figure out why they had been reincarnated until we taught them the meaning of their existence. they dont mention exactly when they woke up or if they only woke up after being attached to frisk or if they had ever attached to any other humans, although the term "reincarnated" sort of implies that chara had been with frisk from even before they fell, with their consciousness (and the ability to save) only waking when exposed to their old home. if chara being attached to frisk is infact a true reincarnation then its even more doubtful that the other humans could save since chara seems instrumental in the ability to save. if chara is only merely possessing frisk than it becomes more likely that they could do the same with the other humans, but i cant imagine chara would have been awake before flowey was considering flowey's dialog. toriel's dialog here does raise more questions than answers i'll admit, but i havent been able to find another theory on saving that explains as much loose ends as mine. i thinks its worth mentioning that toriel only says this after a reset so that deja vu feeling is very much inflicted by us in this case. since mount ebott is known as a place where you can "disappear" it might be possible that all the fallen humans remind toriel of chara since they've all come there for the same sad reasons, which might have prompted her to say this

[@Dorked]

The being with the most determination in the Underground has access to the power specifically. There are multiple places that suggest the other humans had the power. Namely, Toriel has reset-only dialogue where she mentions every time she meets humanS (plural), it's like meeting an old friend. Asgore isn't surprised when you say he's killed you before, suggesting that he's experienced this situation. Flowey mentions that if you tire of trying and give up, he'll regain his lost power, and Sans' goal is to make you quit. Personally, I just don't see any reason to assume soullessness is what grants the ability when Flowey's dialogue mentions specifically his determination being the cause and that by being more determined than him, we/Frisk took the power away. Personally, I figure the ability to save and load is something that is granted due to the barrier being such a hugely powerful thing made by advanced magic, so it's probably got something going on that taps into determination. Flowey got his DT not from Chara's SOUL but from the other six souls via injections. But I think with quitting being such a recurring reason to lose the power plus Flowey saying as long as he had the will to keep going, he'd g o back to his save point, it's fair enough that the other humans could do it too. Not to say there isn't interesting stuff to explore with Frisk and Chara's connection, mind you.

[@gristen]

@@Dorked the reason i believe soulessness to be a requirement is simply because chara who is souless is the one with the ability to save not frisk. frisk's name is not on the save files, the stats menu, or in battles. the ability to save comes from chara who most likely did not have this ability while they still had a soul or they almost certainly would have made use of it in some way. the only other being we know for sure has the ability to save is flowey who is also souless. of course theres a lot of aspects that remained unexplained regarding saving, but i think the coincidence of the only two confirmed owners of the save ability both being souless is too much to overlook

[@gristen]

i just realized theres another hint about soulessness having some importance. in entry number 8 in the true lab alphys says "i wonder... what happens when something without a soul gains the will to live?" this phrasing of this question feels pretty significant to me. she could of asked what happens when an inanimate object gains the will to live but she specifically mentions "something without a soul".