Melbourne's Forgotten Tram Lines - Part Two

In this video, we explore four old tram lines in Melbourne:
- St Kilda to Brighton Beach
- Sandringham to Black Rock and Beaumaris
- Elsternwick to Point Ormond
- Napier Street Siding
Episode One -
• Melbourne's Forgotten ...
Discord: discord.gg/WzeYw8kBNb
Instagram: metromanmelbourne
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:21 St Kilda to Brighton Beach - History
03:16 St Kilda to Brighton Beach - Post Closure and Remnants
04:16 Sandringham to Black Rock and Beaumaris - History
07:28 Sandringham to Black Rock and Beaumaris - Remnants
08:01 Elsternwick to Point Ormond - History
09:31 Elsternwick to Point Ormond - Remnants
09:49 Napier Street Siding - History
11:07 Napier Street Siding - Remnants
11:19 Outro
(Some) sources
www.trammuseum.org.au/papers/...
vicsig.net/index.php?page=tra...
prov.vic.gov.au/search_journe...
ehive.com/collections/9138/ob...
bcsv.org.au/vm/melbourne-geel...
bcsv.org.au/wp-content/upload...
trove.nla.gov.au/search/categ...
trove.nla.gov.au/search/categ...
www.flickr.com/photos/5122720...
/ 1143051250168225792
skhs.org.au/~SKHSflood/Trams_t...
prov.vic.gov.au/search_journe...
prov.vic.gov.au/search_journe...
classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legi...
classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legi...
classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legi...

[@devilpizza123]

Johnston St would be a great one for the cable tram discussion. I still firmly believe there should be tram line that runs along Johnston all the way to Kew Junction as it will connect several transit lines and activity hubs, namely Melb Uni, Lygon St, Nicholson St, Brunswick St, Smith St, Victoria Park Station , Abbotsford Convent and Kew Junction.

[@MetroManMelbourne]

My personal view is that Johnston Street would be better off as a frequent bus service, perhaps from Footscray via Newmarket Stn, Elliott Ave, Melbourne University and Victoria Park Stn to Kew, but perhaps long term a tram line could run down there. Probably might be sensible if higher-density development occurs (which it should).

[@potatoknishes]

@@MetroManMelbourne hi MMM, what is your preference over trams in this case? I'm trying to understand whereit is best to use trams vs busses vs other , an am really not understanding

[@MetroManMelbourne]

@@potatoknishes at the end of the day, building a tram line is expensive, and there are simply far more important areas to expand trams to (keilor east, reservoir, knox for example). One day perhaps a tram down Johnston st could be considered, but I would not put it high up my priority list.

[@mspally9542]

Agree about the rezza tram. The fact that at no point do the 11 tram & mernda train line cross is just insane, and the bus lines that join don’t run often enough to be viable. Should extend the 11 all the way down to the lake then along Edwards St to reservoir station.

[@alexjefremov7505]

My parents met as conductors on the St Kilda to Brighton tram in 1952.

[@phillipnoone8044]

Great video! I especially liked your discovery of the pole with the inscription "cars stop here"

[@MooTransit]

Very good video! It’s kinda funny how a line became unprofitable because of another line which would later become unprofitable and shut, would be cool to see part 3 of this series some time soon!

[@professornuke7562]

My Dad is in his mid 80's now and has bad dementia, but he still remembers riding "this funny little tram down to Point Ormond" as a boy growing up in Elsternwick.

[@JWMcLay]

My Dad and his parents lived in Elsternwick, in the 40s till the 2000s. Your comment makes me wanna quiz my Dad now, he's 72 this year

[@gregthompson3274]

On my walk from Esternwick to Mordialloc passed that tram shelter and was puzzled about, where the tramline once was thanks for clearing that up,interesting video about lesser known public transport routes,also no idea Pt Ormond had a tramline,gee these tramlines would be great today

[@ctwentysevenj6531]

With the Point Ormond tram, there are still the original tram poles next to Elsternwick park in Glenhuntly road. Those old steel poles. Plus there used to be a tram loop where McDonalds is in St Kilda. Before McDonalds, there was a cafe called the Green Knoll built by the Prahran Malvern Tram Trust in 1916. There was a tram loop also built in 1916, that completely surrounded the cafe. This loop was the terminus for trams coming from Carlisle Street. It was built so tram could easily turn around after ending its trip. When the Upper Esplanade trams was electrified in 1925, there was a tram connection with Carlisle street. I believe from then on, the loop wasn't used that much. Tram routes 69 and 79 just terminated in Esplanade where Bus route No 623 terminates today. A Ministerial order in 1959 was put before parliament to abolish the loop and it was finally removed June 1962. Also the MMTB built a milk bar next to the loop in the early 1920s , The Candy Corner a white building next to the Terrace houses which are still there today. The Candy Corner closed with the closure of the loop and became a part time police station in 1964, then the police sea and rescue unit moved in that area and built a two level building behind the ex Candy Corner. The Police were there until the early 2000s when they moved to another area and the government sold the land to developers, both the Candy Corner and the police building were demolished and now there are apartments.

[@regenmeister9646]

The Elsternwick Point Irmond Tram Line was actually pulled up in 1963 - remember watching the workmen doing this standing at the fence facing Glenhuntly Road during lunch whilst in first year at Elwood Primary School

[@smurftums]

Nice video. :) There was a tram line in Sorrento that ran across the peninsula. Though not technically in Melbourne, could be worth a video. :)

[@pakenman]

I agree!! Because it is not something a lot of Victorians know about!!

[@NicholassTrainChannel]

Nice video mate. Interesting history about these tram lines. I didn't know that any of them existed. I do appreciate the time and effort you put into your videos.

[@maddyg3208]

Minor points. The big apartment building shown at 3:56 is on what used to be a servo. The tram depot was where the smaller buildings were on the left of the image next to what was the servo. The tram depot became a bus depot, the old tram route became the No. 600 bus though it only went as far as Park St (nowhere in particular), not all the way to Brighton Beach station, which was dumb. In the 80s, it was running buses built for the 1956 olympics. The depot survived until about 1990. Re the Point Ormond tram, the silver metal poles found along most tram line are still located along that section of GH Rd. I note in your comments you said you weren't sure if they are tram poles but I'm pretty sure they are. Enjoyed the video, the fist three lines are from the part of Melb I grew up in. In the mid 80s, coming home on my bike from my girlfriend's house in the middle of the night, I took cover from a massive storm in the old tram stop near Dendy Beach, always wondered why there was a seemingly random old shelter there. Thanks.

[@MetroManMelbourne]

Thanks for the information!!

[@greenberyl]

Fantastically interesting dive into old Melbourne.❤

[@scana1979]

The MMTB Point Ormond line still has a number of steel poles used for tram overhead running along the route unlike the VR lines which did not use them.

[@MetroManMelbourne]

Yes, many of the old MMTB tram lines have ex-tram poles up. This time i wasn’t so sure which ones were ex-tram and which weren’t when filming - last time the Holden street line was much clearer.

[@scana1979]

@@MetroManMelbourne Wellington Street is another location leading to the St Kilda Junction. Before the Queens Way diversion built in 1968, Dandenong Road squeezed into Wellington Street with the trams at Chapel Street. Old steel poles still there today.

[@MetroManMelbourne]

@@scana1979 I almost put that in this video, but decided against it given it was not particularly interesting!

[@steveweatherly1965]

Excellently researched and produced video

[@sebastianliggieri8411]

Interesting stuff. I enjoyed it. Hoping there's a part 3

[@Holland41]

Very interesting and enlightening. Good work!

[@Jockuptown]

Clem Jones was lighting a fire that night to ensure the success of buses as they were a much more flexible transport option.

[@Alexander_Dunn]

as for the topic of sport-related sidings, there is one tram siding on wellington pde used when there are sport events at the MCG

[@paulmiller4566]

thankyou so much. I'm really enjoying these. I'm learning a lot too :)

[@letsseeif]

Thanks very much for your informative video. As a kid just after the war (WW2) I vaguely remember the Victorian Railways Tram parked between buildings in St Kilda. I think that was line was soon closed. Looking forward to more videos. thanks again.

[@wildwombat]

Very informative and so well voice over'd 👏.

[@RGC198]

Excellent video. Thanks for sharing. I was never able to see the VR trams, with me being born in 1952 and living in Sydney back then. However, my dad did manage to ride the VR trams during he late 1930's, while holidaying in Melbourne.

[@nickheffernan123]

Really enjoying these mate, and I would love to see something on the old cable car network as you mentioned at the end of the vid. I know the cable engines were housed opposite the royal exhibition centre but thats about the extent of what i know about the old cable network!

[@adammurphy6845]

Another awesome video!

[@thericesquad]

At 4:00 I was a tram buff when I was a kid. That tram stop sign was one of my favourite things in the world. It was still full colour in the early 70s. 1973 A yellow rubbish bin was attached to the pole at that time and was set on fire taking all the enamel paint off it. Broke my heart. I have wondered if it was still there.

[@darylkanofski9327]

ALl your videos are done with precision, well done

[@brianmiles780]

Great video, thank you!

[@pistolpete8539]

Another very well presented video on Melbourne's history. Keep up the good work. You will make a great historian one day.

[@maifantasia3650]

A brief history of the first two lines are covered by Rev. L. Marshall-Wood in his booklet "The Brighton Electric Line."

[@carrahulley8484]

Good work mate 👍 do well part 3 soon

[@peterhoz]

Love the vid and the work you put into them. The old depot cnr Head Street was also a servo for many years (where the newer white building is now).

[@robertmorris6529]

@Peter H the servo was Mobil , put there after Melbourne Brighton Bus Line was absorbed into Met bus division !

[@philipmallis]

Great video, very interesting

[@melbournebytransit]

Really well researched and interesting to watch all the way through. It took me back when I saw clips of people getting on and off whilst the carriage was still in motion. Just can't understand why that is not a thing anymore😉

[@judycooper9103]

My husband who was born in 1934 and his father before he died about his father and grandfather working on the trams. I forget the route but my husband lived in Caulfield with his parent and grandparents. He used to travel on the tram to and from school and often his dad and grandfather were working as driver and conductor on the same team. And he used to catch this. Isn’t that fantastic that three generations were on the same tram two working and one I might add as a free passenger or primary school age.

[@judycooper9103]

My apologies for the grammatical errors above

[@MrPaddywacker]

Great video

[@romemancer7905]

there was a tram line to Doncaster in the eastern suburbs...my dad who was a war veteran showed me some of the old routes out there...

[@joshrouch]

Very good video, I have used the Essendon tram stop many times but I had never heard of the siding, That stop really needs to be upgraded tho!

[@hollybolly1]

Fantastic research! Extremely interesting thank you. Didn’t realise Tramway Parade was a horse drawn one. What a pity. We always wondered why Black Rock and Beaumaris were so poorly accommodated by public transport!!

[@recycleyourcar]

If you wanted to do a part 3, you could always extend it to cover the former trams of Victoria's regional cities :) edit: just saw you do have a video on Ballarat trams!

[@MetroManMelbourne]

I'll probably make a video on potential for local rail (heavy and light) in regional cities at some point including some discussion on that, but as you said, I have already done Ballarat before :)

[@Lachtrain]

Very nice video Metro, Great work can’t wait to see more videos like this

[@Alexander_Dunn]

these old tram lines are quite cool, i've visited the old tram line to black rock before.

[@mattaustin2128]

A really well-done video, thank you. Don’t forget that the VR tramway came into being because Railway Commissioner and Premier Tommy Bent wanted to make his land south of St Kilda valuable for sale. Of course, the railways weren’t able to operate an electric tramway but they were able to operate a *cough* ‘Electric Street Railway! Suddenly, Tommy Bent’s land became far more valuable for property development!

[@Dico6]

Great video thank you. 3:56. These townhouses replaced a petrol station (I think Mobil).

[@maifantasia3650]

Yes, it was a Mobil. My dad told us a story about when they first introduced credit/debit cards on the pumps at that servo. He stopped his bike at the pump, swiped his card and filled his tanks. When he fired up the bike and was pulling out, a guy in a car pulled in front of him and started accusing him of stealing petrol. The card option on the pumps had only just been introduced and, as the driver never saw dad go inside to pay, he thought he was preventing a fuel thief.

[@GoldM4official]

Nice video! Why near docklands i ALWAYS see tracks that are abandoned

[@MetroManMelbourne]

There's quite a lot of old freight rail yards and lines around that area that just haven't been ripped up and redeveloped yet.

[@blueycarlton]

I remember seeing trams at Point Ormond, the rails are probably still imbedded in Glenhuntly Road. When they built the roundabout at the intersection of Broadway Elwood in the 70's the tracks were there, a few inches below the road surface, both standard and broad gauge where they crossed. Also recall the VR tram barn, near Head St.which burnt down. Those rails in St. Kilda St. to Brighton were still there in the late 60's. Probably still there under the tarmac. Not sure if they are still there, but there used to be tram sidings at the Lake Oval South Melbourne for football crowds before the club moved to Sydney. Holden Street tram in Fitzroy single track? There was a short section of it remaining near Nicholson St.? Tram Road Doncaster had the first electric tram in Melbourne. At Bourke St, or Collins, and Spencer St. there was a short section of the cable tram slot visible between the rails. Truganini Road from Glenhuntly Rd to the terminus at Koornang Rd Carnegie (about 400 meters) was single track and duplicated in the 1980's. I believe it was the last remaining single track in Melbourne.

[@EJP286CRSKW]

The Lake Oval tram sidings are all still there.

[@jhfearon1052]

@@EJP286CRSKW And are still actively used by Route 12 trams.

[@joelpackett7582]

Extremely lit video

[@Trainanatic]

These videos inspiered me to do my "history of" series

[@acesretroonline]

Thanks for this. I didn't know we ever had 1600mm gauge trams, just assumed it was too wide for the turning curves on the city streets.

[@MetroManMelbourne]

As far as I know they may have been the only 1600mm gauge trams in the world, though I stand to be corrected.

[@colinsimmons2913]

When i was young in Melbourne i was one of those feral street kids and lived in some scummy flats on Alma Rd and i remember a tram that went passed the flat looked on Google maps can't find it. It could be an age thing as I am 70 now.

[@Falkirion]

How did I never know about Napier st having a tram siding on it?? Grew up going to Moonee ponds to see my grandparents. I should ask my parents about that, I know they used to go Essendon games at Windy Hill

[@CowboyJojosAdventures]

Great video ❤ Live the history of trams 🚋

[@romemancer7905]

My dad also rode the cable cars as a kid...in the city...

[@kaylaryan8025]

Love these vids! You should check out the old railway on Lorimer Street in Port Melbourne, i used to be the Tasty truck chick for Port Melbourne and theres an old railway/tracks that havent been used in what looks like YEARS. Ive tried to search up some info but i cannot find anything on it? Not sure if you have come across it?

[@MetroManMelbourne]

I've walked the full line before, it's an old freight railway from the former Melbourne Yard (near Southern Cross today) through to Webb Dock. It's likely to be reopened some time in the future, but probably on a different alignment owing to the Fisherman's Bend redevelopment.

[@kaylaryan8025]

Thats right! My customers that work in Webb Dock had mentioned by 2025/2026, majority of Webb Dock will be redeveloped, theyve already started building. Thats so interesting! So awesome! Thank you! 😄

[@SP-xi4xd]

There was some great footage on here of the black tram but has been removed for some reason

[@frozenblazenon]

I love metro mab

[@sdd619]

So there is a track going towards Fisherman's Bend I have no idea on where it goes.

[@garyraymond8684]

My point would be why old trams in the pasted it would be great to see a half tram go past vic market for example as well as that such a trams is doing the rounds in Bendigo so not here have at leasted 3 trams doing the rounds in the city and see People enjoy the the passed, there fix steam trains up as well as some buses ?

[@boofheadgerry]

The construction of the VR tram from St Kilda railway station to Brighton Beach railway station was complicated matter which involved the 'Octopus' Act for rail expansion in Victoria, local property owners and developers in the St Kilda, Elwood and Brighton areas, and some local MPs including Sir Thomas Bent (Bent by name bent by nature). The Octopus Act permitted construction of rail lines in less populated parts of Melbourne and remote areas of Victoria that would never been paying propositions. Political influence was used particularly by MPs or their associates who owned land in these various areas. Sir Thomas Bent used his influence to have the Sandringham rail line built near his properties in Brighton. Because of a depression in Victoria, construction of rail lines to remote areas ceased curtailed but due to politics local councils were permitted to build tramways to railway standards which only two being built in the regional areas - the Koondrook tramway and the Dookie to Katamatite tramway. Both tramways were subsequently taken over by VR. To cloud the issue, William Ross who built the infamous Rosstown railway between Elsternwick to Oakleigh wanted to build an extension of this railway from Elsternwick to St Kilda through Elwood and up to the St Kilda rail line along the Esplanade called the Sea Beach extension. Ross had support from Thomas Bent who was an influential Member of Parliament - some may say 'dodgy'. Personally I think the VR tram from St Kilda to Elwood could have been taken over by the MMTB, gauge converted and operate as an extension of the No 96 tram route but of course the Government in power did not support trams and would not have provided the funds for gauge conversion and the purchase of new rolling stock. As for the Windy Hill siding. I was lucky enough to catch the tram from Windy Hill back to Melbourne. From memory passengers/spectators would alight at Mt Alexander Road and walk to Windy Hill Oval but at the end of the match, passengers would go to the tram that they wished to use in the siding, then ride the tram out. I believe that there was a direct tram service from the Windy Hill siding to Footscray along the existing tram track to the Moonee Ponds junction then along route 82 to Footscray station. I am not sure if this was just for when Footscray play Essendon at Windy Hill or for all matches at Windy Hill. Great video and I look forward to more to come.

[@asighdhGHIiogfds]

Brighton Beach 😍

[@taliew38]

Perhaps look at tram line 8. They promised they may consider bringing it back after the construction of the new tunnel and new domain interchange… what do you think?

[@MetroManMelbourne]

I looked at that last time in part one (link in the description!) My personal view is that the new route is fine, it has dedicated lanes and accessible stops which the other one didn't, so i'm not too fussed if the old route is closed for good.

[@taliew38]

@@MetroManMelbourne except that it makes the line overly long, forces passengers to wait for ages at “Domain” (this is not a comfortable place to be in the heat or the cold, nor does it feel exceptionally safe at night - you’d not understand that feeling)

[@handyandyaus]

Not a forgotten tram line, but a forgotten tram. t'd be great to see some info on the freight trams that ran between depots.

[@MetroManMelbourne]

That'd be interesting actually, I haven't thought of that, maybe I will do something on that!

[@handyandyaus]

@@MetroManMelbourne There probably isn't enough material on them to devote to a whole video, but perhaps as part of a video on rare and one off trams such as 980, 1041 & 2001/2002?

[@MetroManMelbourne]

@@handyandyaus That would be very interesting combining those actually, I'll put that in my list of ideas.

[@hawthornvalley]

@@MetroManMelbourne What about the track cleaning & rail grinding trams? It used to be fun watching the track cleaning trams go by with sparks flying everywhere because of the dirty tracks? Also watching the drivers changing the pole to the other end, because the cleaners were shorter in length than a normal tram and there was no room for 2 poles. The driver would lower the pole and walk alongside the cleaner as they swung the pole.

[@griffinrails]

Just remember them smh

[@MetroManMelbourne]

Please never run an aged care centre with dementia patients

[@christ5826]

as a former connie, thanks

[@Aussie_Transport5371]

We have tram 1013 at the tramway museum in SA do you know anything about this tram?

[@peterausfranken]

The last W Class trams (W7) where built 1955/1956 as a Part of the new tram tracks in Bourke Street to Brunswick and Fitzroy as a part of the transportation plan for the Olympic Games in Melbourne 1956. The where 60 W7 trams planed but as the Blote Goverment came 1955 they cut it to 40 W7 Class trams. There numbers where from 1000 to 1040. These trams where in service until the 1995. A few of the had been upgraded as W8 trams for the City Circle and a the other ones came to tram musuems or can bei seen today in service in Seealte USA.

[@TheLostProbe]

4:07 wouldn't extending that line mean it would have to go through the plaza?

[@garyraymond8684]

You have forgotten the Footscray lines outside the Gilmore girls school and just look at the poles

[@MetroManMelbourne]

watch part 1 :)

[@aspiewithattitude3213]

Just felt like I literally walked out of the thumbnail since that I just came out of Brighton beach

[@benjaminmcintosh857]

Hey you caught someone running a red at 9:45

[@davidbayley9588]

Still unsure if the Domain Road and Park Street lines will ever reopen too

[@jamesrebbechi5247]

A deadset travesty if they don’t ..

[@travelthetropics6190]

[3:44] I always wondered about these wired looking bus stops. Also I once saw an old map (~1880), showing a proposed railway connection between Sandringham line and Frankston line, could be the same one you are describing in the beginning of the video.

[@MetroManMelbourne]

Wouldn’t surprise me if there were plans in the 1880s to build a line from Sandringham to Cheltenham or Mentone. Instead obviously the tram got built as you said.

[@travelthetropics6190]

@@MetroManMelbourne Yeah, I will share the link to the map if I find it again. I found a small newspaper article from 1882 on the project though trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/11547211

[@Travel-with-Chris]

Cool video. I still don’t get why they don’t extend or add more lines. Even make the trams longer or just add. In Geneva ( so much smaller than Melbourne) we have a crazy amount. 36km of lines and 107 trams on the tracks with the biggest ones at 45m length. Always a head scratcher in Melbourne seeing one single tram at a small length getting around.

[@MetroManMelbourne]

Largely the issue is that our tram depots are often approaching capacity so we don’t have the space for extra trams and lines. In the near future two new depots are planned though so I’d like to think we will see further expansion soon.

[@rememberingthefuture9500]

There is a trade off between longer trams and frequency of service. On less busy routes a short tram every 10 mins is a better service than a long tram every half-hour. Long trams are useful on busy routes where the high capacity is fully utilised while still providing a frequent service.

[@MetroManMelbourne]

@@rememberingthefuture9500 Of course, but the current Z and A class trams in particular are entirely inadequate. They need to be replaced by trams 2-3x their length asap.

[@rememberingthefuture9500]

@@MetroManMelbourne 2-3 times their length? Why? Do you think route 82 be better off with a big tram every 15 - 20 mins or a smaller Z or A every 10 mins? Put the big trams on the busy routes where they are needed, and where there is already a frequent service. Putting big trams on quieter routes will only lead to a reduction in service. When route 96 to East Brunswick was W then Z then A it had a 6 minute daytime service to North Fitzroy - that was cut back to 12 mins when the B class was introduced because The Met said it was the same capacity. (The service has since been increased largely due to growth in patronage on the St Kilda end). Waiting time is one of the biggest deterrents to public transport use, especially if you have to use more than one service. That means more cars on the road. Cars will always have a faster journey time, even in heavy traffic, than PT if a big portion of your journey time is waiting. Putting big trams everywhere will inevitably result in, at worst, cuts in services or, at best, no improvement to services, because a big tram half empty is pointless. Busy lines with a 3 or 4 minute peak service, sure, put on a big tram, more efficient than running a small tram every 2 mins and the difference in waiting time is minimal so the passengers won't care. But on a quieter line with a peak service from 6 to 12 minutes is a different matter. If the trams are already full then run them more frequently; if they are not full then the same capacity can be catered for with big trams at a 12 - 24 minute headway. In off-peak times the situation is even worse - replacing an off-peak small tram running every 15 mins with a big tram will result in a half empty tram at the same frequency or a full tram at a 30 min frequency (assuming no loss of patronage due to reduced service). Consider the St Kilda Rd services. St Kilda Rd generates a lot of patronage so a high frequency is required to cater for it, so it should be run by big trams, right? Wrong! The individual routes to the south-eastern suburbs are not that busy, they don't need big trams. It is only along the common section of St Kilda Rd where it is busy. So consider this: three Z or A class trams have the same overall capacity as two B class or one E class. How frequently you can run trams down St Kilda Rd is governed by how many trams you can get through in a traffic light cycle along Swanston St and how many trams can load at a tram stop. Let us assume, to keep things simple for the sake of argument, that each traffic light cycle takes one minute, and each tram stop can hold 3 Z/A or 2 B or 1 E. As the overall capacity of 3 Z/A or 2 B or 1 E is the same, then for the common section of St Kilda Rd you will move the same amount of people. But it will have a vast impact on the service frequency of the individual routes beyond St Kilda Rd. With 7 tram routes along St Kilda Rd plus the South Beach route, the greatest potential frequency on those routes in this scenario for an E class is 8 minutes, for a B class is 4 minutes and a Z/A class is 2-3 minutes. These figures can be extrapolated to any amount for both traffic light cycles and tram stop capacity, but the principle remains the same. Big trams are very useful on busy routes, but on the less busy lines they will result in reduction of service or wasted excess capacity, especially in off-peak times. I understand the new G class will be smaller than the E class to partly address this reality, and while they will replace the Z and A class, capacity of the latter is not the driving issue; rather it is age and low-floor access that is making the desire for their replacement urgent. Yes, new trams should be bigger than the Z and A class as a 'future-proofing' for potential patronage growth, but they don't need to be twice as long for quiet routes, and certainly not three times as long, nor do they need to be replaced ASAP purely for capacity reasons. Tram services should be run at realistic headways with the most appropriate vehicles to cater for demand, not only for the benefit of the passengers but also for the overall good of the city in reducing traffic congestion and environmental impacts. Services should not be dictated solely by bean-counting bureaucrats.

[@MetroManMelbourne]

@@rememberingthefuture9500 no I believe there should be a tram 3 times the length of a Z class every 10+ minutes and writing a 15 chapter book won’t change that

[@JimmiAlli]

Don’t forget the Domain Road tram.

[@MetroManMelbourne]

I covered that in episode one - linked in the description :)

[@JimmiAlli]

@@MetroManMelbourne thank you, sorry I have missed that one. I was actually hoping they will reinstate that route and keep the Toorak Road West one too - like a 58a and 58b maybe?

[@liamstuffdoer]

guys i think metromanmelbourne from definitely not metmames went to get the milk

[@redhead3199]

I'm guessing that you not an Essendon football fan or you would know the name of the ground. (Windy Oval).

[@MetroManMelbourne]

I am not an expert on afl by any means (more into soccer), I do know that name but decided not to use it for clarity for those who don't

[@redhead3199]

@@MetroManMelbourne ok

[@hawthornvalley]

Windy Hill!!

[@redhead3199]

@@hawthornvalley oops, note to self, don't comment on anything when you are half asleep. Very bad errors happen then.

[@geoffb108]

We called it windy hill

[@QIKUGAMES-QIKU]

What happened to Melbourne to Knox City in Wantirna ?

[@MetroManMelbourne]

There's never been a tram route there - only plans to build one in the future.

[@JohnCitizenDU]

@@MetroManMelbourne It was originally promised in the 1999 Victorian State Election, under Steve Bracks. Apparently it was considered to be too expensive, so it was only built halfway, and a bus connection from Vermont South to Knox City.

[@MetroManMelbourne]

@@JohnCitizenDU hopefully some time soon it will be extended through!

[@JohnCitizenDU]

@@MetroManMelbourne Honestly, I highly doubt it will happen anytime soon, but it probably will happen sooner than the 19 getting extended to Campbellfield.

[@MetroManMelbourne]

@@JohnCitizenDU that route 19 extension is a complete dud. 75 would be useful.

[@geoffb108]

A very interesting and entertaining production. I feel that your commentry could be improved. This will improve with practice but you have the habit of not finishing your words and letting them flow into each other. Its almost like you are trying to speak too fast to keep up with your video clips. Keep up the good work

[@davidlang1125]

What a shame some of these old lines no longer run. Wish the return of some of them could be justified.

[@ldnwholesale8552]

Trams?? After watching these two clips we had the stupidity of different guages,, just like what has plagued rail for decades. A 100 years ago trams were a semi sensible system. In the traffic of this day and age they are an anochrism. I hate buses but they are far more viable than a tram. They can move in normal traffic and dont need slippery dangerous lines to travel on. Melbourne and their trams has been a joke for decades. Though a ex SA Premier had to have them which has made Adelaide No right turn city.

[@JohnCitizenDU]

Buses are even worse in Melbourne, mainly because of how they were generally operated. Buses were generally disparate small private operators, well into the 1980s. It's not like the consolidation you see these days, and those operators didn't always work with others, plus frequencies were generally not great, especially after the large 1991 timetable/route cuts (which some lines are still affected by, 32 years later). It's partly why a lot of people don't like buses in Melbourne (alongside indirect routes and odd variations). Trams are/were better, because they were operated in a much better fashion (either by the MMTB/MTA/PTC or VR), with a much better frequency for many years. It only became fractured when they split the train/tram system in two (which was a bad idea) in 1999. Although sadly it's suffered a lot of underinvestment, and requires a few extensions/frequency changes.

[@sextoncardew903]

Melbourne had one of the best public transport systems in the world, but our noble leaders have ruined it.

[@Mikey-hd7vw]

Only good thing to come out of Melbourne is the Hume hwy

[@tonnyyyyyyyyy]

First

[@michaelbenardo5695]

What a shame.

[@NoTaboos]

I wish they were all forgotten.