Melee TAS: Mario is Viable

[@ZumaZoom07]

The first battle without audio kinda has this epic feel to it like Mario is taking down a beast and the audience is in awe watching s as he saves the world… flawlessly.

[@adrianthesnowkoopatroopa4810]

That and they're in space so everything's silent too. XD

[@Dusclone]

1:30 this is what I strive to become as a mario player

[@TralynThompson-h3m]

Same here

[@BeazerProductions]

Ok but Imagine if Mario's fair was a true spike in Melee. The character would move up a whole tier.

[@ShaunMoore]

If.jump Cancel didn't exist.

[@Hack3900]

I haven't been keeping up with the Melee TAS scene, this is very cool :)

[@brendanleong9715]

Dude I knew about the Mario wall jump under battlefield but did not know that he could survive going all the way under

[@smokedem]

imagine you get paired against a mario in a tournament and he hits a debug menu combo and teleports you to your death

[@chunk0354]

lol, that menu was just to control the cpu for a bit cause he wouldnt ledge attack, same with the last stock

[@MassiveMarioLuigi700MassiveKun]

2:57 mario pulled a fukin jigglypuff bair combo wtf AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@AspectCave]

saw some mario's using it, it's pretty common honestly

[@upy0ur5]

Eggz, Mango/Scorpion Master, Brown Mario, Shroomed, and Bob Money have used that just from memory. Still fun to see since we don't see Mario/Doc in tourneys much these days.

[@andrescube64]

The Big M Himself has always been viable

[@clipCommander101]

Being a Mario main is like being into some obscure fetish porn that no one else understands

[@DoodleNoodle26]

1:41 nahhhh bro put smash 4 mario in melee

[@fennerguyreloaded]

A Rookie should be watching this

[@ratiogiver]

Scorpion Master is back finally

[@AspectCave]

im glad this popped up :)

[@WillyMacShow]

Punish game in melee is all that matters. If it can be pushed hard enough m, who knows maybe he is viable

[@AspectCave]

he can prolly rival pika in a way

[@sutfolsemaj]

Neutral definitely matters too. It's harder to get punished in the first place if you have a better neutral.

[@ExperienceLOS7713]

It looks like when I play a level 9 CPU.

[@celestial_crash0]

Mario on a mission to save Peach after NNN

[@keitaowl]

I'm going to be that guy but is there anyway you could make the opponent implement some of the better defensive options so it looks like 2022 mid tiers going nuts vs good players?

[@chunk0354]

I could choreograph the entire thing, but that is far beyond my level of creativity and skill at this time. However, if you could point out spots in this vid where the issue is most prevalent, I can focus on those sorts of things in future TASes. I would like to say tho that I try to keep these as heavy on offense as possible on both sides. With Mario barely evading a lot of hits rather than shielding or spot dodging. Often I try to make sure that a combo starts in the endlag of an opponent's move or in a situation where the opponent could not have avoided the hit. I believe I can set the CPUs to be more defensive, but it becomes imo a lot less interesting when they just aren't goin for ya. Funnily enough the CPUs play so poorly that a large part of making these TASes is trying to manipulate them to do something actually decent

[@AspectCave]

@@chunk0354 I've been tasing 20xx a bit and I agree, like they just sd and even with the highest level all you can do is throw them off stage lmao

[@tommcthornberry1064]

Moves like aMSa lol

[@vMart1n]

Underrated videos moment

[@Slatanata22]

nice dude do on with ness. just remember shield stop is your best friend

[@alstoyle]

Mario in the lore:

[@CronoBJS]

If only I can achieve 1% of their power 😢

[@ShaunMoore]

What Tier do yaw think Mario should be in?

[@chunk0354]

C+

[@ShaunMoore]

@@chunk0354 I think 13th.

[@heyliktyou9866]

@@ShaunMoore yo even this dude tases better, had my minds blown than your's

[@ShaunMoore]

@@heyliktyou9866 Cool.

[@dante224real1]

TOOL

[@defibillytor6639]

Doc next please! UpB cancel really makes a difference.

[@chunk0354]

It really do. Might do doc next, but I've had gannon started for almost 2 months lol

[@defibillytor6639]

@@chunk0354 My heart is ready for both, keep up the great content!

[@ssbVanilla]

mewtwo was able to escape most of those hits in game 1 rip mario

[@chunk0354]

In most cases, I try to set up the situation such that the opponent is hit/grabbed in during an attack, roll, or in a situation where they have already chosen a punishable option such as shielding. But in some cases, ya gotta kinda fudge things to show off somethin cool lol, like in the fox game.

[@helow8714]

ye but is TAS viable?

[@joshuasmith1157]

I dont really understand what im watching. so TAS means AI tool assisted right? so, idk. are you still playing but like, AI is guessing what you want and making you 10x better or something? i dont get it.

[@chunk0354]

So here's the thing A TAS stand for Tool-Assisted-Speedrun/Superplay which basically means someone made the gameplay using some extra tool. In the case of this vid (and most TASes), frame advance (playing the game one frame at a time) and savestates were used, as well as input recording. Basically, I redid sections over and over until it was exactly the way I wanted it. Pretty much just played it in super slow motion In the VAST majority of cases, no AI is used. There have only ever been a few experiments in which AI has been used across all of TASing of every game. Occasionally some games make use of brute force scripts, which rapidly redo a short section until the desired value is hit. Of course, this is a common misconception so it's all good ese. I think the misconception can come from the fact that real-time speedruns (runs that aren't TASes) have been commonly called "human". I personally think this implies TASes are made by computers when they are almost always not. Humans put a lot of work into making TASes. So I don't personally use the term human to describe stuff done in real-time (RTA) because I think it's confusing and dismisses the work done by TASers. I don't impose this opinion on anyone else, anyone can call real-time whatever they want, I just don't personally call it that. Hope that didn't come across as rude or condescending, I'm passionate about TASin and hope to get more people into it since there ain't many people to talk about TASes with :(. Please let me know if there was a better way I could have phrased that since this confusion is very common :)

[@joshuasmith1157]

@@chunk0354 no man I was genuinely asking and that was a great answer, thank you. I really didn't know what TAS was other than Tool assisted. I mean that was literally all I knew. So thank you for the understanding that was very informative! I think my personal confusion came from Rocket League. I remember not long ago, I was seeing something about AI TAS assisted rocket league bot someone was making for freestyling so, since I heard AI involved once, and it was one of the very few times I heard about TAS in general, I kinda of just coupled AI and TAS together without any real understanding. TAS sound painstakingly meticulous but, I can see the intrigue. I think it's similar to how I played the genichiro fight likely over 300 times in sekiro in the pursuit of perfection. Take 0 damage, dodge nothing, don't miss a single parry, time everything perfectly and have no waisted movements. But instead of practicing for hours upon hours you are meticulously experimenting for hours upon hours in order to see what that perfection is like in an even more dynamic and variable ridden situation like melee. Cool stuff.

[@lordtraxroy]

No thats just smash ultimate mario or smash 4 mario

[@ReavenM1911A1]

I'd love to see YL one day, his projectiles would look so cool in TAS