Mercantile - Morrowind Mechanics

[@Avrysatos]

I think i understand mercantile less now. I'll watch it again.

[@LyleShnub]

Hahaha, I'm sorry. It can definitely be one of the tougher ones to wrap your head around since it's so thick in the formula department. This video actually ended up taking more work than the longer enchanting one because of it all. I linked time stamps in the description to a couple sections with key info to try and help with that.

[@VM-hl8ms]

@@LyleShnub imo, showing an in-game example for how npc merchants react in every situation could make things much clearer, even though it would also make video much longer... but i'm not complaining, it's a great video that youtube needed for a long time. :)

[@SydSquid856]

I just push the a button REALLY fast and decrease it slowly until they hate me but say yes :)

[@Avrysatos]

@@SydSquid856 Thanks. I figured that out 6 years ago. If you're just starting morrowind now, welcome! I hope you enjoy it!

[@ohiograssman1564]

Sell and buy one item at a time MAXIMUM MERC 😂

[@howdoilogin]

Small piece of useful info: Because Creeper and Mudcrab have no Mercantile skill, they seemingly cannot be haggled with and yet through testing I've found you can sell stuff to them with a _maximum_ of 1% more gold. So if you're gonna sell something like a 2000 gold 6th House Amulet you can set the sell price to 2020 and it will succeed 100% of the time. Set it to 2021 and your chance of success drops to zero.

[@whatstdiggn]

I always thought this was because the code writer had OCD and put it into the game outside of the formula so they and/or players/play testers wouldn't go insane buying and selling things trying to satisfy their tick.

[@ArniesTech]

You know its Morrowind when you understand something less after reading/watching a tutorial/guide on that 💪🙏

[@armandodechiara5612]

Ra'Virr is pretty much my own pusher

[@Rajin90]

I sold him, as a reward, some really fine clothing which he now wears. Ra'Virr, skooma sommelier extraordinare!

[@Krschkr]

In addition to the already mentioned vampirism there's some more cases in which NPCs refuse dealing with you: 1st) Their faction rank is more than 4 ranks above yours. These NPCs will of course not offer any services to people who aren't members of their faction. 2nd) Few NPCs will offer you services depending on quest stages - such as Nels Llendo, Berwen and the Blades. 3rd) During the quest 'The Shirt of His Back' the populace of Ald'ruhn will defy you. When selling stackable low value items such as low quality arrows hold down control and add one at a time to the trading window. This way you get at least 1 drake per item. If you sell the whole stack of let's say 50 chitin arrows the trader will treat it like a single item of 50 drakes value instead of 50 of 1 each so you'll end up with a worse initial offer than when you were adding them one at a time. Decreasing your skill is not the only way to affect trainers. You could aswell increase their skill so they can train you a bit more. Especially spear mastery trainers are seldom and bad, so you might want to help them a bit at training you. :D Without the Morrowind Code Patch traders will equip the highest value items in their inventory even when it's something you just sold them. Getting these items back requires you to either sell the merchant something more valuable or to kill him. If that item got a permanent enchantment with health loss you can just kill those poor traders. It's probably less vile to make them equip an item which reduces their haggle rating. If they offer training, too, this should affect their training abilities, too. But I didn't test that detail. And remember that using shift will allow you to sell a whole stack of items without being asked on how many items you want to sell - unless you got the Morrowind Code Patch which makes selling the whole stack the standard behaviour.

[@LyleShnub]

Krschkr These are some good additions, especially on merchants equipping better items you sell them. I can't believe I forgot to mention that one. I remember it happening all the time and even was looking at the change made in MCP, hahaha. Thanks, hearting your comment to signal boost it

[@sambennett5340]

I used to watch my cousins play this game when I would visit back in the day. It always blew my mind! Beautiful and mysterious game. Pulled the trigger and started playing last week. Thanks so much for helping to demystify this masterpiece!

[@trevorsharp460]

Your videos are tragically underviewed. Excellent work!

[@MrAbraham119]

People say the name but dont play the game

[@TheFilthyBunny]

One thing you didnt touch on is that creeper the scamp, when mentioning miscellaneous items he will buy, includes GOLD. So you can sell him gold for gold. With his replenishing stock of money over time, you can sell him your gold over and over. And eventually when you feel like you have reached millions or however much you want then if you feel like it you can kill him and take back ALL of the Gold you ever sold him!

[@user-qn2lx8tg6z]

I saw a mudcrab the other day... Great guy, amazing prices.

[@LyleShnub]

Mudcrabs. What's the point?

[@stringpuppet3626]

hahahaha, indeed, great guy.

[@alexfowler8770]

Let me begin by saying that I have absolutely loved your mechanics videos, ever since I recently dusted off my original Xbox and started playing that glitchy, massive, maddening, miraculous vanilla Morrowind again! One minor point I would mention, though, and only because you seem to be such a thorough and punctilious kind of guy, is that another condition under which merchants will not sell to you, which I believe you neglected to mention, is vampirism. This could be argued against somewhat by the fact that vampires still have access to Qorwynn for enchanting, smithing is available to all three bloodlines, and the Berne Clan sells thieves' tools, the Quarra Clan sells clothing, and the Aundae Clan has an alchemist, and of course the Mudcrab Merchant and Creeper will trade with you, in any case. Most merchants, however, will either refuse to trade with you outright or even attack you on sight, and spellcrafting is an impossibility, unless you have Bloodmoon. Just thought it was worth mentioning as a footnote to your masterful précis. Please do keep up your amazing work--Morrowind deserves it!

[@LyleShnub]

Oh yeah, that's definitely information worth having out there for folks. Especially the different services offered by each clan. Hahaha, it didn't even occur to me to bring vampires into the equation. Thanks for the kind words and for the addendum. Hearting your comment to signal boost it. I better jot this down somewhere so I don't forget it when I eventually get around to a vampirism video.

[@manthings4916]

Goty or the Original. I remember when you used to be able to cycle keening and sunder back and forth for permanent buffs to your stats and then they patched it out in GOTY. Talk about zero>god tier playthroughs.

[@JelloFluoride]

I cannot brag about the quality and usefulness of this channel enough. Very clear and concise information!

[@beefbroccoli5489]

If you born in the TES universe your race would be Breton

[@LyleShnub]

Lmao, I'm gonna take that as a compliment

[@andrejz8954]

I'd say Altmer, cause this series is pure magic! :P Sorry, couldn't resist. Though judging only by his/your voice, I'd pick the wood elf. Definitely! :)

[@dontspikemydrink9382]

Stealth- Boy 3000 is the series weak to frost fire, shock and magic too? ;)

[@TheDarkblue57]

By the nine! Akaviri obviously.

[@rokkfel4999]

Guess I’m a imperial then

[@darx205]

Thank you so much for this video and all the others like it. I'm playing Morrowind for the first time, and you've been my favorite source of information.

[@Kjamilex]

I was casually playing Morrowind, when I decided I should probably look up how is the sneaking and detection calculated. I found this series of guides and embarked on a magical adventure. Several hours later, I'm apparently an expert on everything that goes on behind the curtains in the entire game. Thanks Lyle!

[@isaackarr6576]

In the basement of fort Buckmoth bloat and netch leather are available

[@LyleShnub]

Is that source also from a vendor who restocks goods after 24 hours? Even so, I usually do prefer the location in Gnisis (as I mention in the alchemy video) because it's so easy to access via the silt strider. You can get there from level one.

[@kendo5862]

Wow didn’t know fatigue was a factor... which is a bit weird for travel... imagine a taxi driver hiking up the fee if you’re wiped out ... though probably realistic considering 3am post pub voyages home!

[@SeesSean]

best guides ever, hands down, undisputed champion! ive watched 3 hours of guides then i found you

[@operator8014]

As a kid, I thought it was absolutely ludicrous that the merchant markup was about 100%. And then I grew up and shopped at real stores... I wish real merchants were even half as legitimate as the Morrowind thieves guild

[@silverjohn6037]

In fairness real world merchants have to pay salaries, insurance, rents, taxes etc so it's a bit more complex than the wholesaler sells a can of beans for one dollar and the retailer sells it for two so they're greedy;).

[@augustgreig9420]

My first character was a female Breton with high personality,speech craft, mercantile, and alchemy. I was level 39 before I left Blamora lol. I was gaining so much experience buying and selling potions, that I had to remember to train in non-class skills just so I'd get a third attribute to increase when I gained a level. Obviously, as i traveled out from Balmora, I soon came across a person in the capital who sold two ingredients for Fortify Intelligence potions. I realized that potions stack after I drank a bunch of strength potions in order to steal and use a 500lb hammer. It didn't really click until upon realizing I couldn't hit a barn with this hammer, I drank a bunch of agility potions and got my chance tohit at 100%. So I tested to see if alchemy worked the same way. And then after about a week, the game was completely ruined for me. I love alchemy, I just wish they'd put some failsafe in there to prevent this. Of course if they did stuff like that, it wouldn't be Morrowind.

[@CaptScrotes]

These are great. Thanks for including your comments on the openmw engine mod.

[@Ryan_Dye-r]

As far as I can tell, how much one can successfully haggle while bartering in Morrowind (whether buying or selling) is a percentage difference of the initial offer. How large this percentage is, is based off of three variables: the disposition of the NPC, your Mercantile level, & how many times you make the same offer. Of course Luck has an effect on everything. Sometimes I have Haggled with the same offer over & over until the NPC's disposition was down to like 1 to 3 points before it was successful... & then sometimes there disposition goes down to 0 & they never accept that offer. There must be some formula that determines what the maximum percentage difference from the initial offer an NPC is willing to let you haggle (before you lower said NPC's disposition to zero from haggling too many times), at your character's given Mercantile skill level, luck level, & the NPCs given disposition towards you. I wish I knew what that formula was.

[@sammosaurusrex]

For me, exploits are part of the spirit of Morrowind. What good is Morrowind without weeklong levitation potions?

[@LyleShnub]

I totally agree! Though there's absolutely folks who aren't into using them or are fine with using some and not others.

[@AmyraCarter]

Yeah... As great as it is to see the formula on screen, much better in print to review time and again for those of us with lackluster short-term memory, lol (still, the presentation is spot-on)

[@LyleShnub]

Yeah, I try to make an emphasis on the important parts of a formula that are relevant when actually playing the game. I don't expect everyone to get the same value out of these guide videos being as people just have different learning patterns. At the very least, it was my goal to help explain and present information in a way for people to be able to parse a formula on their own and hopefully make some degree of sense of how the game works

[@jehovasabettor9080]

Fun part about mercantile in Morrowind, its chance-based. So what I did in Seyda Neen was buying a chainmail cuirass (trader respawned those indefinitely) for a one gold less than the base price. Then sold for one gold more. Then bought two for one or two gold less. Then sold two for one or two gold more. And repeated it until the merchant ran out of money. First transactions required multiple tries, but as the sum (and the skill) grew, you could rob any merchant of whatever he had. I wonder if they patched that.

[@dontspikemydrink9382]

I think they should just list how much the item is worth and then what you are actually paying for/getting when buying or selling in brackets on the right, so you can see how close you are to its true value and decide what is worth a small drawback right from the start.

[@LyleShnub]

That's actually a pretty good idea. Got me thinking that it could be cool if a dialog box or tooltip appeared with an explanation whenever you clicked on a skill/stat in your menus.

[@newnamesameperson397]

I gave up on trying to play this game right and became a burglar. Breaking into peoples homes in broad daylight and taking all their stuff while they stand downstairs doing nothing.

[@LyleShnub]

Sounds like a right enough way to play the game if you ask me ;)

[@towermonkey5563]

Why bother to steal anything? Mercantile is one of THE most broken skills. With just 15 or 20 pts of mercantile skill the merchants wil smile and hand ALL their gold to you. You can repeatedly buy and resell items from/to the vendors stock, haggling a bit each way to your benefit, till you walk away with all their gold for having bought a net sum of nothing. I don't run a lot of mods, so the stock game provides an interesting method to very easily bilk most vendors of all their cash. Most vendors have at least one item they restock. Buying that item and then asking to barter again restocks it. Selling what you bought to them adds that item to their total auto-restock amount. So, buy and sell arrows, herbs, common rings, whatever. Then you can do a single transaction buying enough till the haggle change is half of their total gold, sell it back and walk away. Mods that eliminate the instant restocking merely delay the game breakiness. Mostly though I don't bother with that. I just level purely untrained alchemy and hawk the potions to anyone that buys them. Going from 10 - 100 easily nets you around 75 - 100k septims. It does take a LOT of wickwheat and marshmerrow though. In that instance, I don't mind abusing the restock for leveling alchemy. I mean they are both quite commonly grown on farms and plantations for food stuffs. A little bit of alchemy just means the farmers get more cash for their crops.

[@peter1038]

@@towermonkey5563 yeah but many of those farmers use slave labour.. So you are just supporting rich ruling class citizens and not the people doing the farm work :)

[@sickbow8167]

You need more views.

[@LyleShnub]

In their defense, over a year ago when I first published this video it had about a tenth as many. I find that guide videos, if done well enough, are pretty evergreen. =P

[@88SLLS]

Emphasis on worst escort mission of all time. I created 2 rings to make the process easier (command creature and fortify speed both exquisite rings 😅), but ended up having to guide the mudcrab all the way to caldera manually, because it couldn't get up the stairs to the silt strider in suran. Should have learned water walk on touch so i could get him to vivec then balmora, but i didn't want to start over mid journey. I'll add that resting out in the open to recharge your rings can make him dissappear sometimes. Also, i think if he's not right by your side the fast travel leaves him behind. Silt strider stairs might be too small for him to go up; the ones in suran certainly were. He also gets stuck on the stairs in balmora mages guild so i took him to caldera to hang out with creeper.

[@manthings4916]

I have been to the mudcrab with an inventory full of ordinator gear. When you get to the point you remember the gold/unit weight of most items and have millions of gold.... you still need more.

[@SerathDarklands]

One notable merchant that's easy to find is Catia Sosia in the Great Bazaar of Mournhold. Just look for her in the Armory. She has a whopping 10,000 gold, and buys armor and weapons. Whenever I need to unload excess ebony or Daedric gear, she's my go-to.

[@silverjohn6037]

Potential cheat (depending on your views) below. Creeper can also be used for high value armor and weapons if you set things up correctly. As he also buys soul gems and will buy and sell all items at their face value if you sell him enough common soul gems filled with scamp souls (4000 each) you can use those as an alternative currency. As part of a trade of say a 60,000 item you can make a trade then take the trade in 15 filled soul gems which you can then sell back for cash over a number of days by resting 24 hours in place. A bit tedious but, if you want the money, an option.

[@SerathDarklands]

@@silverjohn6037 I find Catia for the simple reason that she's more easily accessible. Once you finish the Tribunal questline, you get Barilzar's Mazed Band, which can teleport you to the Mournhould Temple gates, from there, it's only a short walk to the Great Bazaar. This way, you don't have to waste your Mark/Recall spell to get back there quickly.

[@toastinat0r]

I Would really like a tutorial for those Sweet Mod/Texture packs your using!

[@Gakusangi]

Yeah, when I discovered the Creeper (Scamp merchant) in Caldera, he become my go-to. I never once found the Mudcrab Merchant.

[@adamgrzechnik3809]

Hey i have a question. If i go to merchant like smith and talk to him at level 1 he has different items than if i were to talk to him at level 10. Does it changes when i level up? or if i talked to merchant he is saved and wont change - upgrade stock ? On level 1 he smith will sell iron chitin steel and silver but on level 10 he has glass or even ebony items. I ask will he have those items even if when i first talked to him at level 1 he had none glass/ebony items. I would apreciate help with that question :) Thanks for great vids take care:)

[@LyleShnub]

Hmm, that's a good question. I don't believe they do upgrade their stock as you level up. I think they just always carry the same items. I could be wrong, but in my experience I don't believe their stock ever changes. Thank you for the kind words as well!

[@Jackaroo.]

I love your informative videos. Thanks so much :)

[@gm2407]

I always find that once the displayed cost is less than 10 gold the guild guides, silt strider drivers and boat captains still charge me 10 gold as that is what is removed from my inventory.

[@wiseandfunfox]

I really enjoy your vids, you have an interesting voice

[@LyleShnub]

Thank you! Hopefully interesting in a good way! =P

[@digilydave9923]

The most annoying thing about bartering: When the game lets you not hold down the "+" "-" money buttons but have to click every single time to increase/decrase prices...

[@LyleShnub]

Yeah, at a certain point I whenever I sell off items I just get the vendor's base offer to a little over half their total and then hit the seller max button. Mercantile and personality handles the rest

[@Danlovar]

Sometimes you have to wait half an hour with the option clicked until it starts moving.

[@TheZakanater]

Thanks for these, playing TES3MP right now and trying to figure stuff out

[@LyleShnub]

Glad to hear that TES3MP has breathed life into the game and given folks an opportunity to try it out!

[@david8157]

Hello Lyle, did you ever make a list of the mods you use? I like how your game looks.

[@LyleShnub]

I use the MSGO 3.0 mod pack, but it's in a bad state these days. If you want something along similar lines, I'd say look into the Morrowind Graphics Guide

[@david8157]

@@LyleShnub Thanks :)

[@sebl637]

Ok I am coming 5 years later but it seems to me that the real question is how much you can haggle for. with perfect skills can you sell items for 50% more than they are valued? 100% more? And actually what are perfect skills? You said there is no cap on skill influence to haggle so can you actually get your Personality to 1000 and haggle an iron dagger for millions?

[@bun_66]

Great videos

[@LyleShnub]

Thank you!

[@MrCh0o]

I don't really understand why in the final haggle chance the absolute value of the difference between player and merchant haggle rating is used. Is this a bug in Morrowind, or is there an error in the formula? Because as far as I can tell, with the presented formula you might get higher haggle chance if your character's Mercantile+Personality+merchant's disposition are absolute garbage than if these were average.

[@WillF-e1x]

Where do you find these formula's into the Construction Kit?

[@officedullard8722]

Oblivion footage? Dropping hints to maybe a video series on that?

[@LyleShnub]

Hahaha, it's definitely been on the mind lately. Debating on whether I should make edited cold-opens like I do with Morrowind Mondays and whether I should keep it at an average of 50+ mins per video or shorten it to like 20-30. I personally like longer ones from a viewing perspective, but on the other hand I'd have more time to make other videos like this one. It actually really surprised me when I booted up Oblivion again to see that Steam said I had a little over 200hrs logged and my character was level 36/37. I couldn't believe that I spent all that time playing it, but never got around to actually finishing a big story arc.

[@officedullard8722]

It's a touch call to make. Whichever you think will help make more videos in a shorter period of time. The long videos are nice but once a week is quite the distance. I understand that you might also don't want to hurt yourself pushing too many videos. As for your character, the Emperor entrusted one task to you...

[@Danlovar]

Hello, when you drop the price when buying something and he does not accept the offer, but you insist until he accepts but his disposition fell 20 points and then you cancel and press action on him do you get the old good disposition, is it or do you consider it dishonest? I really don't know how to play this game.

[@drizzyk6633]

Hey Ive been playing on the original Morrowind (for a couple years now) off of steam. Does this all relate to the original version? Also where can I find the remake that you show clips of with better graphics?

[@LyleShnub]

All of this information applies to the original PC version (most of which I believe also translates to the console versions). For these videos, I'm playing the PC version, just with a lot of mods installed.

[@christophrcr]

So the merchants haggle chance is influenced by their fatigue modifier? Is there a way to drain their fatigue without making them hostile?

[@jprec5174]

A charm+fatigue spell?

[@gm2407]

the creature merchants do not buy for base price you can always sell it for 1 percent more and buy for 1 percent minus 1 gold less than the given price. ALWAYS it is free money even if you have 5 mercentile, 30 personality and 5 speachcraft.

[@Grey_World1]

Fatigue multiplier affects your haggling. Why you ask? Dealing with unreasonable merchants is tiresome, which in effect makes your mind less sharp. Being tired affects your fatigue. (See where this is going?)

[@averageeldeneternalrevenga7503]

Yep iam subscribing

[@youruncle2]

How to get a shit load of cash 1. be imperial 2. go piss off dark brotherhood 3.sleep until you kill enough assassin's 4. go to creeper in caldera 5.cast Voice of the emperor 6.profit ????

[@spatrk6634]

charming him is unnecessary. he is a creature, he doesnt have disposition, he always buys items at full price

[@milosz204]

Will I be attacked if I use drain personality on a merchant?

[@huhusmremre]

9:16 wait, even if the item sold is a no-value item? like, for example, a skull?

[@DiathenEridani]

What graphics mod is that? Where can I get it?

[@pagansatyr5247]

Lyle- I love your shit- in even working my way through your Morrowind play through. But Lyle- buddy. What the fuck- you did so much math in this. I’m scared Lyle, I’m scared as fuck.

[@LyleShnub]

Hahaha, thankfully a lot of the initial legwork is already done when it comes to the math. I usually just try to verify it all for accuracy as best I can. Then just parse it myself to be able to display it in a way that's actually useful to people when playing. Nonetheless, this one was still pretty complicated. I think organizing the formulas here actually took almost as much time as the stuff in the enchanting video.

[@user-xg6zz8qs3q]

Morrowind's Mercantile skill is busted like Alchemy. Once you start actively using the skill you'll realize that you can empty the pockets of every merchant in town by buying and selling the same item repeatedly. Trust me, just buy low and sell high.

[@fesswood]

Brilliant content!!! More likes here!

[@LyleShnub]

Thank you, I'm glad it helped!

[@MrROTD]

You have moonsugar for Khajit?

[@LyleShnub]

Yes

[@christianfuller7828]

Plays imperial with all speak and merchant stats

[@JourneyFontenot]

Can you buy only one item when you click one that has many in stock? I haven't seen an option to

[@LyleShnub]

Hold down ctrl and left click. Should be what you want

[@JourneyFontenot]

@@LyleShnub Thank you! I just got the game a few days ago so I'm still learning haha

[@mvideos2845]

👏👏👏👏

[@512TheWolf512]

Man, is trading in morrowind is the best The console trash they implemented since oblivion is MADDENING

[@LyleShnub]

Hahaha, the one thing I'll say that I like more about Oblivion's trading is that you don't have to wait 24hrs for vendors to get their gold back

[@dontspikemydrink9382]

Eugene InLaw what do you mean

[@Ace2014Ace]

I use construction kit to give creeper 1 million so I can sell him golden saint souls for 80,000. So ya I say exploits are just rewards for understanding mechanics.

[@frauleinhohenzollern]

Make a video explaining how to get normies into Morrowind

[@AndroidFerret]

I was selling this grey guy creeper my stuff all the time and made millions. He had 5000 every 24 hours...

[@LyleShnub]

Yep! I cover bother of the secret merchants in this video!

[@AndroidFerret]

@@LyleShnub I know.. Have seen it

[@blackfistxu7953]

👍🏾👍🏾🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@rockbearpage1972]

Find Creeper he has 5k gold and buy almost anything

[@DB-rw5vu]

mercantile is overrated when I can just sell everything to the creeper for full price

[@LyleShnub]

True enough! In mid-late game, most items are worth way more than any vendor can afford anyway.

[@DB-rw5vu]

@@LyleShnub best way to make money in morrowind is to enchant an exquisite amulet with permanent summon golden saint, and kill the golden saint if it spawns with daedric items. If you're fast enough, you can get into the inventory of the golden saint before it despawns, and get the daedric weapons or shield. rinse, repeat and sell it to the creeper or the mudcrab. I usually go with the creeper because he's easier to get to. I farmed over 10 million septims that way.