Metric VS Imperial // The REAL reason NASA lost a 327 Million Dollar Mission to Mars

[@alex_itto]

It's a pity they can't revert to vehicle assembly building

[@humorgep]

That created an alternate reality

[@ultimategotea]

When you revert on pad, there is another universe where they just wheel it back into the VAB and eat the cost

[@jase171973]

F9 24 hours prior to do that correction burn

[@LMixir]

Too bad they unchecked that option when picking difficulty settings.

[@alt8791]

or even just quickload

[@minifix]

14:53 "...they were denied because the concerns weren't filed correctly, and due to some misorganization of authority. Those that spoke up were seen as 'out of line'". As usual, someone's ego stood in the way of humanity's progress.

[@LMixir]

Whenever it pops up, there always seems to be a 50-50 chance of ego making great progress (see Apollo) or great setback.

[@WearyKirin]

Whenever some mechanic or programmer seems to do somethijg wrong its always their superiors that cause it to happen

[@donaldmoe3286]

minifix -- Another example is the launch of Space Shuttle Challenger in 1986 when the engineers were overruled by managers about the danger from the cold temperatures at launch time.

[@curtisquick1582]

@@donaldmoe3286 I think you mean 1986.

[@robertbackhaus8911]

The collective ego of a large group of people, a belief that together they can do anything, can achieve great things. The individual ego of one person can destroy everything.

[@Tea_N_Crumpets]

An everyday astronaut video that doesn’t take 4 months to come out? Impossible!

[@uoppsdnsu4266]

BlookyDerp 22, ya buts it’s always worth the wait, the longer the wait the better the video normally is

[@strykerace]

he has been working on this video since 1988?

[@ksevio]

When he rushes them we get spelling mistakes like "QUANITY", better wait for it to be polished

[@UncleKennysPlace]

@@ksevio You'd think that TITY would be easy to remember.

[@devonloerop]

My professor in college was on the team at JPL that screwed up this unit conversion. So to take out his frustration he would take off an immediate 10% on thermodynamics exams for every time we didn’t have units on a number.

[@jirkajavora5465]

To be honest, I feel as though he was trying to prevent a similar disaster from happening. Better a lower grade then a blown up mars satellite. Still must have sucked though.

[@BlueFrenzy]

I was forced to have the units, but in school. That's how it should be. Else, you will have to use 3.

[@StevenHaskett]

In my engineering classes a magnitude without units was not considered an answer. We also had to have the right number of significant digits. Good habits, though sometimes painful to acquire.

[@kreiseltower]

During my time at university, not having units or a incorrect one cost a lot of points. At the time it was very frustrating and seemed like harassment. But now after many years I think it was a good thing... because made me really aware of this stuff. And I still have to do a lot of conversations in my job as an engineer. Not imperial to metric.. but wiithin the metric system. Still can be a source of big mistakes especially things regarding torque and intertia related calculations that have units squared, cubed or ^4 (don't know the name for this in English)

[@joyfuflower]

Doing what has to be done

[@Adam-ip2bz]

This video will be in the history books: it's less than 30 minutes :O

[@DanielRut]

Placing my mark as proof I was here

[@jacobsmith4453]

Daniel Rutkowski me too

[@animationspace8550]

Noooo! The video goodness will end sooner!

[@scotty9173]

Adam what’s a minute? I only understand 1/4lber burgers consumed per yard of charging bison

[@prcvl]

Oh no

[@JesbaamSanchez]

So it's funny, I am a US citizen and student attending at a community college. In our STEM courses we use mainly and only the metric system, and I got to say it is a lot easier to know than the imperial system (even though I know pretty well what is a mile, an inch, and feet) but other than that I think the US should stop being so stubborn and use the metric system. Imo. Edit: wow I never get this many likes before thanks!

[@vincentguttmann2231]

Well actually the US uses metric, or at least the standards of the US are metric. They use a kilogram, and use all the other metric standards. They just use conversion factors

[@donjones4719]

In the medical field we also switched to metric, many years ago. It's not only easier, it's *much safer.*

[@BRUXXUS]

The *only* unit we use in the US that I think we should keep using is Fahrenheit for meteorology, just offers better granularity in whole numbers. Other than that, yeah, we should switch everything over to metric.

[@philb5593]

Inches, feet, and yards aren't going anywhere either. They are much more practical than metric equivalents.

[@ManOnTheRange]

@@philb5593 more practical??? that is very disputable...

[@auguslan1515]

4:47 why do they need a despin mechanism? Everyone knows that if you just timewarp a bit the spinning stops

[@discflame]

they have persistent rotation installed on their client as a part of realism overhaul

[@somerandomnification]

They were trying to avoid the Kraken.

[@altansukht.2877]

Well, you know, if spacecraft spins for too long the onboard computer will feel dizzy and cannot think straight anymore.

[@peterkotara]

It's all in the hips and the step to the left.

[@skyr8449]

@@discflame Actually, Principia now has a built in better version of persistent rotation, so they were probably using that ;P

[@Tsa12343]

I had a good chuckle when the subtitles "translated" "Mission Control" to "Michigan troll" 😄 Great video!

[@ddk]

There's a lot of errors like that in the subtitles - perhaps corrected from automatic captions? 🙂

[@ilmarinen79]

lol "Nah it's just some guy trolling from Michigan" "The Michigan Troll? Ok, let's keep going then!"

[@borisquince6302]

For those wondering, happens at 0:52

[@dinoschachten]

Hahah, that's fabulous!

[@lucasmccarthy9905]

Ha! That IS funny. In Michigan, people in the Upper Peninsula call people in the Southern Peninsula "trolls" who live under the Mackinac Bridge.

[@mj1653]

So according to banana for scale, and based on an Imperial conversion, I’m approx. 10 average bananas tall and weight approx. 720 average bananas and it is approx. 1.44x10^12 average size bananas to Mars....That’s bananas.

[@oradoughball]

Can the Standard Banana be used to measure time as well?

[@williamkorb]

@@oradoughball Of course! At Standard Temperature & Pressure (STP) a standard banana takes a standard amount of time to rot.

[@oradoughball]

@@williamkorb That's it, baby! I'm talking about- banana ripening to rotting. 'This self- isolating is coming up on 60 bananas..' '.. no, I won't go out this bana..I was out yesterbana.'

[@williamkorb]

@@oradoughball Do you realize what this means?!? This means that we can also measure specific impulse in Standard Banana Time Units! So perhaps the specific impulse of a Raptor engine is 0.0475 SBTU (Standard Banana Time Units). OK, we need a mod for KSP to change to this measurement system! :-)

[@williamkorb]

OK, I've done the math. At 20°C it takes 10 days for a standard banana to rot at sea level. Therefor, the Isp (vac.) of a Raptor is 0.00043981SBTU and Isp (SL) is 0.00038194 SBTU. :-)

[@teaser6089]

Everyday Astronaut: "It's a fun story to tell" Me: "It better be, it costed 327 million dollars"

[@teaser6089]

@@bigfoot1861 Go be annoying in Russia*

[@AlexanderBatyr]

US units vs rest of the world units. What can go wrong?

[@CatsClaws.]

Do you mean freedom units? From the only free country in the universe?

[@shh6545]

@@CatsClaws. Only.. free.. country...?

[@milanstevic8424]

@@CatsClaws. Oh right. Probably because they've enslaved everyone else in the universe. Makes sense.

[@VictorECaplon]

@shh I think it was a joke. Only very indoctrinated and stupid people would think it’s true. I mean, everyone knows imperials, were from the old systems when countries weren’t free, it’s in the name. While metric were recently created in free countries to help communicate and calculate complex measurements with everyone...except those who rather stay locked in past propaganda.

[@Galerak1]

Nope, I think he means dumb-asse pig-headed units xD

[@Cold_Leftovers]

I genuinely *LOVE* the fact that your videos are so dense, I’m forced to rewind the video every thirty seconds or so just to make sure I’m absorbing all the space info goodness! 👍 Your content is the most refined independently created educational content on KZbin. And I am such a HUGE fan. I gotta go pick up a shirt from your merch shop and finally give you some monetary support after the years of entertainment you’ve brought me. Love you, Daddy Dodd!!!

[@mridho4070]

Not using symmetry tool, sigh

[@Jamesterjim]

Those that spoke up were seen as out of line, but the only thing out of line was the Mars Climate Orbiter.

[@valentinmoeller]

I never swap units. It’s all metric. Weird US haha. Europe says hi!

[@TheConfius]

Hi from Europe (the moon)

[@superskullmaster]

Valentin Möller what units are your money in again? Pretty sure it ain’t metric. But the USD is 😁.

[@nukularpictures]

@@superskullmaster huh? The € is divided into cents. If you mean that by metric.

[@alekosb.8704]

@@superskullmaster the dollar is the base, but a euro is 1.1$, meaning that it values more

[@tankpenguin175]

@@superskullmaster ???

[@martinhughes2549]

The "Gimli" glider incident is another example of standards confusion. Use one system or another. Using 2 systems is a recipe for disaster.

[@ddk]

Gimli glider is an actual unit mixup gone bang 😀

[@christopherkozicki9597]

The airstrip where it landed was converted into a racetrack. My dad happened to be racing the day that the plane landed there. Apparently it was pretty cool.

[@martinhughes2549]

@@christopherkozicki9597 Didn't the plane nearly hit some kids on bikes?it was an amazing piece of flying by the crew.

[@dinoschachten]

I can't for the life of me understand how someone working on software for a spacecraft would decide on using non-metric units. I mean when you code, you face the decision of what units to use. It doesn't just happen. And did I get that right: The code was FROM NASA originally?

[@robinholmes9179]

Almost - using 2 systems or the Imperial system are recipes for disaster! :)

[@_mikolaj_]

Simple sollution: just use metric. Everyone use it, so everyone will understand.

[@Luke-hq1pu]

@Lee His suggestion was simpler

[@abriannaaguilera2123]

Sorry, I don't speak communism. Talk to me on AR-15 length per invasions.

[@nikolafrye8230]

I agree

[@eveve0585]

@@abriannaaguilera2123 so about 15 light seconds per kelvin?

[@williamswenson5315]

You might as well try to get 100% of my fellow Americans to wear masks. Metric? Nope, it's us against the world...as usual.

[@Onkfrog]

14:48 ignoring warnings, good old nasa-management tradition

[@philipeanthonybattung3860]

Yep. Same thing happened to the Challenger.

[@ParameterGrenze]

Ignoring warnings and going forward is a not vanishing part of what management is about.

[@cerebralm]

that's a human tradition bud

[@Mosern1977]

Well, most warnings can be ignored....

[@Kirovets7011]

Yep, that's what their good at...

[@superrdaan]

Hey Tim, mabye you dont read this mabye you do, but I want to say thank you for everything. All the videos. Especially the really in depth videos. Wow.. it just really helps me understand rocket science ALOT. Thanks to you and the other youtube guys ( marcus, spacexentric, felix, Scott etc.) I am really into this stuff and I like it so much that I convinced my friend's that didn't have anything with space and rockets to also like it. Usually we just talked-about random lifestyle stuff etc but now everytime I see them its about space. Most of the time SpaceX. They now all (including myself) are really monitoring the NASASpaceflight forums for new updates about starship etc 🤣. I have become a true space nerd thanks to you and the rest of the guys! I can't thank you enough and wishing you all the best and good luck with the video's. Keep up the great work!!! THANKS

[@SternLX]

Me: "Son, hand me a 1/2" box wrench." Son: Hands me a 13mm Me: "Smartass." Uses the wrench anyway.

[@RWBHere]

What is a wrench? Most people use spanners. lol

[@Jake-bt7ig]

RWBHere you must be across the pond?

[@SternLX]

@@RWBHere In North America we call it a wrench.

[@jackprier7727]

I did wince just a little at "9/16"--a 14 mm often fits-

[@SternLX]

@@jackprier7727 Heheh. A 14mm might fit if you file the 9/16th head down a little. Assuming it's a Hex head and not a 12 point.

[@s4dg]

maaaaan, lockheeds mars missions are ON FIRE! not in a good way though...

[@galnetdor]

that true, I was (in a tiny role) on the team for Mars Observer built at East Windsor Astro (depending on the year, RCA, GE, Martin Marrietta then Lockheed Martin) and we had our own oops moment when we lost MO. due mostly to changing the timing of when an explosive valve was fired.

[@tuhinmia1967]

It's a pity they can't revert to vehicle assembly building

[@s4dg]

@@tuhinmia1967 lol

[@michi386]

poundseconds...would rather use potato-blinks or sth for measurement instead

[@roadent217]

How about banana slices?

[@paulhaynes8045]

Only one solar panel? One of the golden rules of engineering - if it looks wrong, it almost certainly IS wrong.

[@Nphen]

Both art and common sense were left out of the mission planning. But look at the entire premise of the program; a cheap, lightweight space probe. Like a Geo Metro in space. Except not symmetrical. Turns out, aerodynamics are still present (just like people intuitively feel like they should be) even in space.

[@jackprier7727]

And had they simply followed the basic advice of inverting every-other spin, we would have a spacecraft, wrong signals or not-

[@timbermicka]

Mars Odyssey shares the exact same design and it worked fine

[@Sweet-Vermouth]

@@timbermicka the fact that it works does not mean it is a good design. That's like designing a slow car that guzzles fuel with no benefit over a normal car and saying that it's okay to do that because it work.

[@Kirovets7011]

It was made bij Lockheed. So, ofcourse it was wrong!

[@lodevermeulen9012]

Just making sure: everyone agrees that metric>>imperial, right?!

[@Nimelennar]

Of course. But banana-for-scale>>metric.

[@LiftPizzas]

No, I don't agree. It depends on context and I use both systems. If you need to split things into thirds, metric is crap. Base ten is a terrible number system. If you need to deal with time (meters/sec to km per hour) metric has no advantage at all. Metric also sucks for having not-very-relatable units. (Centimeter is too small, meter is too big, for example.) The gap between one and the next is 10x which is often far to big a leap. If you have any basic arithmetic skills beyond moving a decimal point back and forth then the metric system really isn't "better." And if you're doing something that requires a calculator then either system is just as easy to work with.

[@snuffeldjuret]

@@LiftPizzas but 10 is what we have for numbers, that is why metric is superior.

[@fabianogc]

@@LiftPizzas "Metric also sucks for having not-very-relatable units. (Centimeter is too small, meter is too big, for example.)" That's equivalent of me saying that "yards are too small, miles too big." or "milimeter is too small, inch is too big" or that your method of measuring peoples height is too imprecise. It is nonsense. You say that because you are used to that. Besides, you know we have another unit between centimeter and meter, right? And guess what? We don't use that because it's not necessary. Very few people can even name it. We who use metric solely have no problem with that gap at all. "The gap between one and the next is 10x which is often far to big a leap" You know the gap between inch and foot is 12x, right? So... wtf dude? Besides, in our day by day life (aka when you do not have/need a calculator) you never need to divide things by three with such precision. It's ok. Believe me. In regards to the speed problem you stated, the conversion is in fact crappy. But it lives in the "time" factor measured in s:m:h, which US (surprisingly) also uses. So that's a tie.

[@donadams5503]

@@snuffeldjuret I use hexidecimal alot.

[@Whataboutit]

Hey Tim! I want an explanation on what's a "QUANITY" right now! :D

[@milanstevic8424]

it's a little sisterhood of female ducks. for male brotherhood it would be quackety.

[@profpylons]

“Each and every one of us is capable of mistakes” ❤️

[@mervynleach1362]

I'm sure you put that in just to confirm we're all human.

[@paulmichaelfreedman8334]

Yeah, ME TOO! Looks like Tim doesn't read comments much.

[@theknave4415]

"Was that metric or imperial?" "Don't know. It'll be fine."

[@velocityaerospace8978]

I need that banana 4 scale! That commercial was so convincing!!🤣

[@williamswenson5315]

We really need an approved pesticide for things like these.

[@gallopinggoose6891]

It's a mod for the game kerbal space program.

[@unvergebeneid]

It's so versatile! Bananas are a unit of length, of volume, of curvature, of radiation... You'll never need anything else! 😄

[@arcaipekyun4232]

Penny Lane 1 banana= 1 microsievert We CAN use it as a radiation measurement Bananas are curved Yeah the superior measurement

[@marcusvojtus7444]

Superior mesurent 😂

[@SteveEhrmann]

Thanks for this shorter, and every illuminating, video. It's great to hear from you more often. The short form also makes it easier for me to decide, "Yes I'll watch it now" rather than "I'll wait until I have more time to watch."

[@trezapoioiuy]

I like his documentaries though.

[@messyhair42]

Does the 'Banana4Scale' go on RUD when they start to turn brown?

[@adolfodef]

You see, it is a misunderstanding... The "Device" (banana) is for measurement of radiation (as a "standard candle"). It is unrelated to spatial dimensions.

[@sirexilon]

Banana scale or imperial same thing.

[@oradoughball]

Yes, the 'banana standard unit' is used to measure time, radiation half life, distance, and mass.. probably energy, too.

[@JeffreyBue_imtxsmoke]

Great summary Tim. I worked at LM during this embarrassing incident. Like you stated... we're all human and capable of mistakes but this series of mistakes is really unforgivable considering the costs.

[@danielquill]

Imperial is just so clunky - use metric. Regardless, for engineers to make such an error in their calculations/assumptions is inexcusable.

[@clewis519]

Danny Quill the blame should be on QA... assuming that existed lol

[@mariueg]

All engineers makes mistakes during their career, but there should be safeguards in place to catch it

[@SirSpence99]

Ah, the sign of someone who hasn't actually made things, only done the math. Unless you are making something smaller than a hair or larger than you, Imperial is objectively better for manufacturing. It only seems clunky because you have software do the math for you and it only accepts that math in decimal. The Imperial system is designed around making it easy to do the math without a computer. Think of it this way, what is 1/4 of a meter? 1/3? 1/2? 1/6? Try that in feet. Funny how much easier it is. Interesting how all of those are common fractions in manufacturing too.

[@snuffeldjuret]

@@SirSpence99 oh yea, I wonder what a half a meter is. I wonder.

[@TheSanien]

Haha what are you talking about gees🤦🏻‍♂️ mmm I wonder what 1/3 of a meter is 🤦🏻‍♂️ clearly you talk the talk but you haven't make anything with precision... nor do you know math very well. It doesn't take Einstein to do simpel math 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@2nd3rd1st]

9:59 I bet NASA wished they had a quicksaving function at that time

[@paulhaynes8045]

I'm not sure that this is a mix up of units problem at heart. Those were early days of the switchover (which here in the UK, we STILL haven't managed - we drive cars built and fueled entirely metric, at MILES per hour!) and problems between systems, especially legacy ones, were bound to occur. And could have been spotted and corrected. The problem was more one of management - both during the mission (ignoring errors and advice) and during the design (having no one in the team who understood how exactly the probe was supposed to get to Mars - and, for instance, the problems produced by the spacecraft not being symmetrical). Same old NASA, I'm afraid. Let's hope by now they have finally learnt their lesson - and Space X, etc have also been paying attention.

[@lotophagi711]

Yes but all engineering and science is SI units. I'm an old bugger and think in imperial and measure in metric.

[@JoaoPedroTiago]

"Small video" welcome back :) its not like u ve been missed but it's good to have a smaller look every now and then

[@Thect]

12:07, in the midnight **New video** Yes!

[@RalphEllis]

Regards Imperial units, they are rather ancient. The came out of Egypt, many millennia ago, which is why the circumference of the Great Pyramid (GP) is 1,760 royal cubits, and the Imperial mile is 1,760 yards. The reason for this odd unit of length is that the Great Pyramid is based upon Pi. In fact it is a 40x copy of the Pi fractional 22/7. 40 x 22 = 880. But the design of the GP is actually based upon the formula for a circle, or 2 x Pi x r. And if we multiply the 2 x Pi bit by 40 we get 1,760 and doing the same to the r bit gives 280, which are the dimensions of the GP. So both the GP and the Imperial measures are based upon the 22/7 fractional of Pi. Hence the Imperial furlong is 220 yards, the chain is 22 yards, and the rod is 5.5 yards. Why such absurd units? Well, they are all based upon that Pi numerator of 22. So ancient Egyptian-Imperial measurements were flying to Mars -- I think Imhotep would have been proud...! Ralph

[@siddharthbutala6781]

the last time i was this early, we were measuring using Digits and cubits

[@roeldevries5411]

Awesome video once again! Great insight in a piece of spaceflight history. I like how you give each topic the time it deserves. 18m was great for this one, but 30 or 45 minutes for other topics is great as well. I wouldn’t go above that, though. Don’t be afraid to break up topics if needed, you will keep your unique position with above average vid length (and depth) with 2 30m vids as well. Keep it up!

[@CommanderCyanide]

YESSS FINALLY NEW EPISODE! Luv ya Tim, keep up the awesome work.

[@DroneDocs]

Good job sir! Also, I love the long format and these 15-20 minute ones in between are a perfect way to mix em up.

[@Thect]

So... What did we learn from this...? USE METRIC

[@giovannifoulmouth7205]

that's COMMUNISM! We use freedom units in 'Murika!

[@Szolrykor]

@@benistingray6097 There was only confusion after NASA started trying to phase in Metric despite knowing its contractors, the people who actually BUILD and DESIGN things, always used Imperial. The lesson learned is to ignore outsiders meddling in our business, trying to change things to suit them. International cooperation has been the worst enemy of America's space program. And Russia's as well. Absolutely not worth it in America's case just to save some money for the sake of worthless politicians.

[@costakeith9048]

No, what we learned was that you do your design in the same units as your manufacturing; whether it's SI, US Customary, Imperial, Roman, or Planck units, manufacturing dictates design.

[@someonespotatohmm9513]

@@Szolrykor About international collaboration. How is that human space flight program coming along that was dead the last decade...

[@Szolrykor]

​@@someonespotatohmm9513 Terribly, thank you for proving my point. When NASA wasn't able to just run to another country and ask them for a ride to space, it was actually forced to maintain its own human programs. We likely would have followed up on making newer versions of the Space Shuttle concept. Maybe we even could have had our own space stations again instead of pawning it out to Europe, Japan, and Russia.

[@joshgeiple5573]

This history matches what I was told when I was an intern at JPL in 2003. Great video.

[@MelancholyCrypto]

I hate Imperial, trying to learn all the arbitrary measurements against each other gives me a headache and I've grown up with them.

[@Nphen]

This stuff is easy. Ten stone 4 pounds could just be called a gross of pounds! 8 pints in a gallon. Unless it's an Imperial Pint. A tuppence is worth 4 times as much as a ha'penny. /s That was all I had!

[@martinsachs3837]

ask me not having grown up with it. 1000 fatoms make 1 nautical mile, that is the one thing that makes any kinda sense. the rest is vodoo, not sience.

[@farvque]

Excellent video as always. If memory serves me correctly, there are two other prime examples of space drama where metric vs imperial came into play: First Apollo 13 - I believe the spark which caused the explosion was based upon a metric vs imperial error, and Second - The Hubble Telescope debacle which gave blurry images prior to the fix was also a mirror curvature error relating to metric vs imperial measurement. I could be wrong but I seem to remember both of these had roots in the measurement problem.

[@CKalitin]

Can’t wait to see what Tim’s says about Banana for Scale on the Our Ludicrous Future Podcast.

[@panners125]

The first A 380 fuselage was being constructed in different countries and assembled in France. The measurement standard between France and Germany was different. So when the two parts were placed next to one another, they didn’t fit together. It’s was an expensive lesson learned there as well.

[@owenpatterson9355]

You know this all started with one engineer who thought the spacecraft looked way cooler with one solar panel

[@GeneralSeptem]

In my head, it's the one idea he ever had and every contribution he made to the project thereafter was to frame every issue that came up as yet another justification for it. Not like I have experience doing this or anything.

[@owenpatterson9355]

Johnny Steen Yeah as a new engineer in college I definitely experienced some design fixation in my work at school

[@johanwilmann1072]

I love your "documentary" length video's. So please keep doing those. Although I do understand that those are exhausting to make. Don't get burned out and keep doing awesome work :)

[@MarcoTedaldi]

Interestingly, the probably most successful program of NASA was all metric. The moon landings. For pilots convenience some displays were showing data in imperial units but internally, everything was metric...

[@Szolrykor]

Why do people actually believe this? Only a couple specific computer systems used Metric. The engineering and design and everything else was all Imperial. This was the 1960's United States. NASA didn't use your beloved international infrastructures, it relied on American manufacturing and communications.

[@arcaipekyun4232]

Saul Rikor that “couple specific computer systems” were the flight computers, the most important avionics.

[@takanara7]

It's funny how Tim is like "Saying those out loud like I was making half of them up, I probably should have tried to sneak in the 'specs on the n-line rotary girder'" after saying the probe had: "the Mars orbiter camera, the Mars orbiter laser altimeter, the thermal emissions spectrometer, a magnetometer, an electron reflectomiter, the ultrastable oscillator and a mars relay signal receiver." - I understood all that stuff and didn't think it was even hard to understand, lol.

[@CG-ln1le]

Metric? My car gets fourty rods to the hogshead and that's the way I like it.

[@williamswenson5315]

Is this a methane/biogas thing?

[@CG-ln1le]

Clearly you are not a StoneCutter.

[@corporaal1]

Hey Tim, be sure to not overwork yourself. I want to enjoy your vids for a long time to come :). It needs to stay fun for everyone, including you.

[@TheMotlias]

America actually is on the metric system. All of their measurements are officially defined by metric amounts.

[@ivantimofeev2233]

cause the metric system is modernly defined by universal constants length (light speed) time (fine structure constant) temperature (boltzmann) and recently mass too so, anything other than meter, second, kilogram, kelvin/Celsius (as increment) has to be defined by metric system

[@BEKippe]

@@ivantimofeev2233 I still think that when they changed the definition of a meter they should have just rounded it a bit to 1/300,000,000c.

[@absalomdraconis]

@@ivantimofeev2233 : No, the US Customary system is defined in terms of metric _because that was done in the 1800s._ If an attempt was done to define it today, then those units would likely be defined in terms of universal constants as well. Incidentally, there's no reason why metric being defined in terms of universal constants means everything else has to be defined in terms of metric. It actually makes it easier for everything _else_ to be defined in terms of the constants, since you can just make a conversion to metric, then convert from metric to the constants, maybe adjust the value a little if a nicer number is close enough, then set that _universal constant multiple_ be the reference instead of the metric system. Footnote: a recent astronomical survey suggests that the universal constants aren't actually constant, and in fact have at some point in the past varied on the basis of which direction we look at.

[@Markle2k]

@@ivantimofeev2233 Only since last year. The original definition of the meter was hideously flawed. Still flawed, but less so, was the definition of a Centigrade degree. Also, changing the units to fit the number system rather than the other way around was a huge mistake.

[@MrAlpacabreeder]

BEKippe I also thought that, but it can’t be done because the length is locked in as a fundamental basis for everything else. If you change it, then it adjusts what a Joule is etc... think of Potential Enery in Joules = mgh where h is in meters.

[@surfmonster2323]

@everydayastronaut I designed the double-dendrick philodendron input system on the laser scanner.

[@000scubasteve]

HEY TIM!!! You have to include Boeing's total facepalm for their demo 1 mission!!! You and I both know what happened with Boeing's demo 1 mission and I has to be the biggest facepalm mission as bad as the Mars boondoggle.

[@Danny_S.]

Thank you EA for taking the time to give us the information in this video. This video would have been horrible at 8 minutes long. SO much information would have been left out.

[@alicemoffat]

Petition for banana to scale to become the global measurement unit

[@xepa273]

Felix Moffat nice profile picture

[@MoseyingFan]

Original or modern farm-grown banana?

[@alicemoffat]

Xepa *Spider-man meme pointing at each other*

[@VinayPai]

Bananas for scale summarizes this video as "they were expecting the de-saturation burns to be reported in bananas, but the spacecraft reported it in plantains".

[@alverro5351]

Thanks Tim!

[@grogyan]

After the MPL, there was a universal memorandum to all parties and subcontractors that ALL spacecraft will use metric. Metric fasteners and metric units

[@matthewgoodwin8093]

FINALLY! Just make sure. All specs to contractors are metric. Also don't apply for funding from those idiots in Congress without putting everything in metric. Dollars per Kilo.

[@Len-eo2ln]

It still boggles my mind the US hasn't made the switch to the metric system yet.

[@Cornerback3141]

It sure would be nice but it would probably be very expensive for the US to do a complete switch.

[@Szolrykor]

Does it boggle your mind that there are still countries who speak languages that aren't English/Spanish/French?

[@mr.goddardsstemtutorials1944]

This video gets at the heart of "Bringing space down to Earth for everyday people" and I really appreciate it. I love the deep dive videos too, but videos like this are what made me initially subscribe.

[@pequalsnpsquared2852]

3:02 meters needs to be lowercase to mean much

[@someonespotatohmm9513]

Got to love the classic 2.0 Mega unitless. Also some weird perspective going on with the man besides and presumably far behind it, being half the height of the 1.6m tall craft.

[@georgf9279]

14:16 May I ask for clarification? Is this the movement the spacecraft did perform, or would that have been the better alternative? As far as I understand, turning 180° every now and then, (as shown in that sequence) would eliminate the need for desaturation burns completely. The sun would do that for you.

[@greggb557]

Metric is the ONLY true standard. Imperial is like doing maths thinking 1+1=3

[@giovannifoulmouth7205]

Imperial is best at confusing your enemies.

[@Brixxter]

@@giovannifoulmouth7205 and your own engineers

[@Szolrykor]

@@Brixxter Only after international idiots force a foreign system into your country. Notice there was no problem when it was just Imperial, only when NASA started trying to use Metric too.

[@Brixxter]

@@Szolrykor NASA used metric to land on the moon.

[@quisqueyanguy120]

@@Szolrykor NASA used metric system in the Apollo program.

[@teds8747]

I almost skipped over the commercial!.. then realized it wasn't.. glad I didn't!.. thanks Tim!

[@rimilmurmu10]

My instrument reports in SI and my computer interpreters in imperial, and mind you we are in charge of big heavy rockets.... Tf

[@davidscates3231]

I went to college to get my degree when the UK started to convert to the metric system (it still hasn't finished!). Our Dynamics lecturer had a particularly nasty habit of setting problems in weird systems of units to get us used to conversions. One I particularly remember was the Furlong/Firkin/Fortnight system. Not the easiest system (hint - the firkin part was the mass of a firkin of water).

[@simonwhite8474]

Love the subtitles.....'Mission Control' subtitled as 'Michigan Troll'. Units for everything should be SI, except beer, which should come in pints. Cheers.

[@jackfrost3963]

Traditionally, yeah, but I'd rather have a litre of beer than a pint.

[@matthewgoodwin8093]

People who do anything in imperial should be shot.

[@flechette3782]

Excellent synopsis. When I first saw that you did a video on this subject I was afraid that it would just be a watered-down "it was the units" show, but you went into great detail of the other issues. However, Metric units are not the better unit. Mars is 155M rods away and the spacecraft weighed 28.7 pood.

[@surferdude4487]

This mission failed due to management. 1) The decision to use outdated, imperial units or metric units was a top-down decision and should have been strictly enforced throughout the entire project. 2) The decision to exclude the navigation team from the design process is an example of siloing that ultimately caused the mission to fail. Communication is key to every success. 3) The decision of management to ignore trouble reports from people who knew that something was seriously wrong completely ended all hope of salvaging a mission that was already in trouble. I’ve seen these failures repeated in all kinds of big organizations. This is why the small guy, the smart guy can topple empires.

[@dan85lewis]

Great Video Tim! Thanks for all the hard work you put into your videos. They are always interesting. Sending love from Bristol UK. 18 mins? whats going on???

[@BobCat981]

It's a valuable lesson.... Oh hell yea! 327 million in value :D Thats why i frequently use quicksaves. You see, i've learned my lesson(s) too...

[@ddk]

KSP FTW

[@tylerouellette7453]

I clicked on this thinking it was your other new video but got a nice surprise. Keep up the good work!

[@BobCat981]

Take ANY decimal number of a kilometer - it literally takes 10 yo kid seconds to know how many meters or milimeters or centimeters are in it. Or decimeters :) No calculators, no pen and paper. Pick not just any smart kid but THE smartest kid in US and ask him how many inches are in, lets say, 57.396 miles.... See how long it takes him (or her). Same goes for EVERYTHING.. Liters, kilograms - you name it. Super easy, super simple - a bloody kid can do it. METRIC RULES!

[@ronfullerton3162]

Oh, now I understand. Metrics are for lazy or dumb people. Don't have brain seizure, I am only kidding. The metric system is easier to start using, and everything converts so much easier. But for someone who came up on imperial measurements and used them all the time, your brain is automatic in changing values back and forth. Everyone's brain becomes trained in the use of any system it uses continually. But when you go to something different, surprise, you have to start out and learn and become accustom to it. I love the blood and gut arguments about things like this subject. One is definitely easier for common use, but neither is wrong. The one definitely wrong thing is trying to mix them together in the same program such as this case. Which is a slip in management. And NASA did the right thing in specifying everything will be metric only after this. Understanding both systems is really a plus.

[@Szolrykor]

Hmmm, a system that's supposed to be best suited to the super complicated sciences. And yet the conversion is something a 10 year old can do. It almost seems like the conversion is so easy because it doesn't actually mean anything and you're just moving a decimal around for literally no reason.

[@BobCat981]

@@ronfullerton3162 Ridiculous. Noone is saying you can't do anything with imperial system - of course you can! And its not about being lazy nor its not about space and this particular case with Mars Climate Orbiter. Its about EVERYTHING else around you! I am least concerned how NASA will cope - thos they do have the smartest people working there and they made (surprise surprise!) a smart decision to stick with only metric from now on.... Can i ask you to define a gallon for me? Google says its 8 pints. And google also says a pint is 1/8th of a gallon.....!?!? You know what liter is? It's 1 cubic decimeter - 100*100*100 milimeters of volume and you have 1 liter! So simple - its not about being lazy - its about making life easier for yourself. Conveniently, 1 liter of water is also (about) 1 kilogram - tho now a kilogram is defined a bit more precisely... Of course it takes effort to make a switch, but the issue is - you aint taking NO effort. " your brain is automatic in changing values back and forth. " - please, convert 34.872 miles for me to inches and then back to lets say feet. Lets see how automatic you are about it. Then tell me how big of a tank you must have to store, lets say, 50 gallons of fuel in it.... 34.872 km = 34 872 meters = 34 872 000 mm. 50 liters = 5m * 0.1m * 0.1m = 0.05 m3 of volume - this only took me time it takes to type it. Didnt have to do ANY calculations. Almost 0% chances of making a mistake. Its not about being lazy. Its about making life easier for yourself! Sooner you accept that, sooner and easier the switch will be :p Look far into the future - what will future americans think of present day americans - same what we think about folks that didnt want to make a switch to gregorian calendar just because it came from "outside" and they had no issues with julian calendar at the time... Now we know better and gregorian was and still is the way to go....... Metric is the way to go also!

[@ronfullerton3162]

@@BobCat981 You really need to improve on your reading comprehension!

[@hvr1874]

Why specifications and specification oversight is so important. This was used as an example in my computer science program and detailed case study in my satellite systems course. And must give it to Tim, his explanation and presentation what happened is the best I've seen.

[@BorisFett]

Metric all the way. Although I do like to use the name "Freedom units"

[@jonasfrito2]

Consider that "Freedom units" are in fact "Imperial units" and Empires are quite the opposite of Freedom. All Hail the Queen!

[@snuffeldjuret]

@@jonasfrito2 at least french fries -> freedom fries have a proper connection :).

[@stuartrushton_]

Hi Tim , Great video at 3;03 Are the dimension annotations deliberately wrong? This is a video about measurements after all.I think the 1.6m dimension should be left to right in the photo going by the ratios and the height of clean room staff

[@fxw2k]

It's time to go Metric now.

[@LordFalconsword]

We tried in the 70s.

[@fxw2k]

@@LordFalconsword I know, try harder this time.

[@FrankCatanese]

Liked your explanation. I remember that and how bummed I was when it failed. I have a question for you. Can you explain why we spend 90 days getting to Mars rather than heading on a 30 day interception course.

[@gabrielhacecosas]

The metric system is not the best measurement system, it's the only one, the others are just cavernicolous systems like making marks on bones and things like that. 😉😉

[@emmata98]

if it is the only one, it is the best and the worst one at the same time

[@陳鵬-g5c]

I am a teacher, and I am going to show this to my students Thank you so much!

[@skvalen]

And the irony is that the imperial system is defined from the metric system these days.

[@trezapoioiuy]

Lol. Basically, it means they know they're wrong, but are too proud to admit it.

[@Szolrykor]

@@trezapoioiuy No, it means they care more about "integration". The definitions of Metric aren't any less arbitrary than what Imperial was.

[@colesauerberg1094]

@@Szolrykor Measuring the properties of the most common fluid on Earth doesn't seem arbitrary to me at all. And every time I look at my fingers I count ten.

[@trezapoioiuy]

Saul Rikor having 15 inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard and 1760 yards in a mile is arbitrary and inconsistent. If Italy insisted on using Roman numerals instead of Arabic, it would still be a way to count the same numbers, but we’d be a laughingstock to the rest of the world, and they’d be right to laugh.

[@bertblankenstein3738]

The best bet, is to go with the flow. If everything is in metric, stick with it. If everything is in freedom units, stick with it. That said, I can easily understand why mix-ups happen. Multiple groups, working independently. At some point however the code should have been checked and this error found.

[@MG-so8yf]

The reason for that loss is simple... It's just that almost the whole world uses one measuring unit and the US having to swim against the stream in the most retarded way possible.

[@aliteralpothole9205]

I’m not saying that metric isn’t bad, it’s much better than the imperial system. But I can see why the US uses it. Pretty much everyone in the US grew up with the imperial system and know the imperial system. It’s hard to get people to change from their native thoughts and ideas.

[@monkofdarktimes]

Look man don't shat on the US. The Canadian and Brits uses imperial

[@jdclayton868]

Great job, as usual! I remember seeing the mission report on TV and read about the cause months later in Aviation Week. You surpassed a professional periodical by far in detail and exposition, making it understandable for us "everyday people", and taught me the difference between Solar Wind and Solar Pressure. BONUS! Amazing work!

[@JoaoPedroTiago]

wanted to add 1more metric joke.... Imagina a country born from a revolt agsaist an empire that then chooses to use the "imperial" system oh nononono

[@jordirosa2263]

Hahahahahaha XD

[@costakeith9048]

But we don't use the imperial system, we use the US customary system and there are some notable differences.

[@mduckernz]

@@costakeith9048 True, although the vast majority are unchanged from their origins in the Roman Empire

[@longboardfella5306]

Nice video! My recollection is that this mission was part of a "Faster, cheaper, better" mantra ushered in by then NASA administrator David Goldinto in 1993 and that this mantra removed many "expensive" QA checks and balances at NASA - and that this philosophy resulted in several further mission losses until ultimately more traditional (and more expensive) engineering design approaches were once again adopted. I'm sure some nice person on this channel can correct or enlighten me on this. The joke was you could have only two of "faster, cheaper, better". Of course SpaceX has shown us you CAN have all three - if your engineers have a clear pathway to get concerns listened to - early. And if they are respected. And if you iterate, test often and learn fast.

[@Sc-tb2qu]

Metric is better

[@fxpy01]

13:19 Hi Tim!, Does this mean that the Mars Global Surveyor had the same problem but went unnoticed?

[@jakubmaszkowski2538]

Just use metric. They are easy and more logical, just try... worth it!

[@Szolrykor]

Are you Polish? They've got an awfully complicated language, no need to teach it in your schools anymore. You already learned English obviously, so just teach all your children that. It's much easier!

[@jakubmaszkowski2538]

Yeah haha I've always struggled with polish language at school even though it's my native language XD But in Poland at least we use ONLY metric system and Physics is beautiful and so coherent with SI 😉

[@Szolrykor]

​@@jakubmaszkowski2538 Far more of physics and the sciences are expressed through language rather than measurement units though. English is a much better choice, I think.

[@jakubmaszkowski2538]

@@Szolrykor I agree. English is international science launguage and if you add metric to this thing, it is even better

[@maxpelletier2237]

When things like that happens... Do they try again with a second mission? or they cancel the project completely?

[@kanva4]

11:09 Thank me later

[@kanva4]

I've got to say.. Joe really lightened up my mood

[@kanva4]

I just can't stop watching his screams

[@astrosix6926]

Great video Tim as always. You keep up the great work! Always looking forward to the next video.

[@kanva4]

Not first

[@MrDanthemaniam]

Another great episode Tim! One "minor" correction though. That system of units you refer to though is not actually called "Imperial." The Imperial system is what the Brits use. We use our own special brew called US Traditional Units. They are ever so slightly different in oh so many ways. It's not surprising you made this mistake though, as almost all of my engineering colleagues do it all the time.

[@CatsClaws.]

Stuff that only happens in the USA...

[@LMixir]

Honestly, the only reason I think metric is better than imperial is because most countries use it: There is no intrinsic benefit to something being 1 metre as opposed to (approximately) 3.3 feet, or vice versa. But having numerous redundant units is at best idiotic, and usually just asking for trouble (case in point). There will always be room for misinterpretation, misunderstanding and just plain old mistakes, what we need to do is reduce the number of oppourtunities for them to happen, try to catch them before they do any damage and/or reduce or negate their impact. Having several competing systems of units is doing nothing but creating more oppourtunities for error and confusion (again, case in point). All that being said, this is still my favourite story about spaceflight, because it is so relatable.

[@trezapoioiuy]

3.3ft vs 1m doesn't make a huge difference. The difference is scaling up and down. 100cm = 1m = 0.001km While 12inches make 1 ft, then 3ft in a yard, then 1760 yards in a mile. That's where the intrinsic value lays.

[@LMixir]

@@trezapoioiuy True, scaling in imperial is a nightmare compared to metric (admittedly speaking as a metric user here). So that is a way in wich metric is fundamentally superior to imperial. My main point remains that we, as in humanity in general, need to agree on a set of units, rather than having multiple, and that metric seems to be the most universally agreed upon standard (by a massive margin, no less), and therefore the best choice irregardless of its actual merit.

[@africsnail4985]

First

[@KerbalScott]

Woop!, More Tim, Hope you had a nice time working on a short video. love both forms of content