Metric VS Imperial // The REAL reason NASA lost a 327 Million Dollar Mission to Mars

Have you ever accidentally used a tablespoon instead of a teaspoon? Or maybe grabbed a metric wrench when you were trying to loosen a 9/16ths bolt? Maybe you’ve heard someone say something weighs a tonne and have had to ask, an imperial ton or a metric tonne?
Luckily when you and I mix up units it likely only makes our food taste bad, or strips a bolt, or simply leads to an annoying argument between which is the right measurement system. But when NASA and Lockheed Martin mixed up units for the Mars Climate Orbiter, it led to the loss of a 327 million dollar mission to Mars.
Article version of this video - everydayastronaut.com/mars-cli...
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[@alex_itto]

It's a pity they can't revert to vehicle assembly building

[@humorgep]

That created an alternate reality

[@ultimategotea]

When you revert on pad, there is another universe where they just wheel it back into the VAB and eat the cost

[@jase171973]

F9 24 hours prior to do that correction burn

[@LMixir]

Too bad they unchecked that option when picking difficulty settings.

[@alt8791]

or even just quickload

[@Adam-ip2bz]

This video will be in the history books: it's less than 30 minutes :O

[@DanielRut]

Placing my mark as proof I was here

[@jacobsmith4453]

Daniel Rutkowski me too

[@animationspace8550]

Noooo! The video goodness will end sooner!

[@scotty9173]

Adam what’s a minute? I only understand 1/4lber burgers consumed per yard of charging bison

[@prcvl]

Oh no

[@devonloerop]

My professor in college was on the team at JPL that screwed up this unit conversion. So to take out his frustration he would take off an immediate 10% on thermodynamics exams for every time we didn’t have units on a number.

[@jirkajavora5465]

To be honest, I feel as though he was trying to prevent a similar disaster from happening. Better a lower grade then a blown up mars satellite. Still must have sucked though.

[@BlueFrenzy]

I was forced to have the units, but in school. That's how it should be. Else, you will have to use 3.

[@StevenHaskett]

In my engineering classes a magnitude without units was not considered an answer. We also had to have the right number of significant digits. Good habits, though sometimes painful to acquire.

[@kreiseltower]

During my time at university, not having units or a incorrect one cost a lot of points. At the time it was very frustrating and seemed like harassment. But now after many years I think it was a good thing... because made me really aware of this stuff. And I still have to do a lot of conversations in my job as an engineer. Not imperial to metric.. but wiithin the metric system. Still can be a source of big mistakes especially things regarding torque and intertia related calculations that have units squared, cubed or ^4 (don't know the name for this in English)

[@joyfuflower]

Doing what has to be done

[@minifix]

14:53 "...they were denied because the concerns weren't filed correctly, and due to some misorganization of authority. Those that spoke up were seen as 'out of line'". As usual, someone's ego stood in the way of humanity's progress.

[@LMixir]

Whenever it pops up, there always seems to be a 50-50 chance of ego making great progress (see Apollo) or great setback.

[@WearyKirin]

Whenever some mechanic or programmer seems to do somethijg wrong its always their superiors that cause it to happen

[@donaldmoe3286]

minifix -- Another example is the launch of Space Shuttle Challenger in 1986 when the engineers were overruled by managers about the danger from the cold temperatures at launch time.

[@curtisquick1582]

@@donaldmoe3286 I think you mean 1986.

[@robertbackhaus8911]

The collective ego of a large group of people, a belief that together they can do anything, can achieve great things. The individual ego of one person can destroy everything.

[@Tea_N_Crumpets]

An everyday astronaut video that doesn’t take 4 months to come out? Impossible!

[@uoppsdnsu4266]

BlookyDerp 22, ya buts it’s always worth the wait, the longer the wait the better the video normally is

[@strykerace]

he has been working on this video since 1988?

[@ksevio]

When he rushes them we get spelling mistakes like "QUANITY", better wait for it to be polished

[@UncleKennysPlace]

@@ksevio You'd think that TITY would be easy to remember.

[@JesbaamSanchez]

So it's funny, I am a US citizen and student attending at a community college. In our STEM courses we use mainly and only the metric system, and I got to say it is a lot easier to know than the imperial system (even though I know pretty well what is a mile, an inch, and feet) but other than that I think the US should stop being so stubborn and use the metric system. Imo. Edit: wow I never get this many likes before thanks!

[@vincentguttmann2231]

Well actually the US uses metric, or at least the standards of the US are metric. They use a kilogram, and use all the other metric standards. They just use conversion factors

[@donjones4719]

In the medical field we also switched to metric, many years ago. It's not only easier, it's *much safer.*

[@BRUXXUS]

The *only* unit we use in the US that I think we should keep using is Fahrenheit for meteorology, just offers better granularity in whole numbers. Other than that, yeah, we should switch everything over to metric.

[@philb5593]

Inches, feet, and yards aren't going anywhere either. They are much more practical than metric equivalents.

[@ManOnTheRange]

@@philb5593 more practical??? that is very disputable...

[@Tsa12343]

I had a good chuckle when the subtitles "translated" "Mission Control" to "Michigan troll" 😄 Great video!

[@ddk]

There's a lot of errors like that in the subtitles - perhaps corrected from automatic captions? 🙂

[@ilmarinen79]

lol "Nah it's just some guy trolling from Michigan" "The Michigan Troll? Ok, let's keep going then!"

[@borisquince6302]

For those wondering, happens at 0:52

[@dinoschachten]

Hahah, that's fabulous!

[@lucasmccarthy9905]

Ha! That IS funny. In Michigan, people in the Upper Peninsula call people in the Southern Peninsula "trolls" who live under the Mackinac Bridge.

[@mj1653]

So according to banana for scale, and based on an Imperial conversion, I’m approx. 10 average bananas tall and weight approx. 720 average bananas and it is approx. 1.44x10^12 average size bananas to Mars....That’s bananas.

[@oradoughball]

Can the Standard Banana be used to measure time as well?

[@williamkorb]

@@oradoughball Of course! At Standard Temperature & Pressure (STP) a standard banana takes a standard amount of time to rot.

[@oradoughball]

@@williamkorb That's it, baby! I'm talking about- banana ripening to rotting. 'This self- isolating is coming up on 60 bananas..' '.. no, I won't go out this bana..I was out yesterbana.'

[@williamkorb]

@@oradoughball Do you realize what this means?!? This means that we can also measure specific impulse in Standard Banana Time Units! So perhaps the specific impulse of a Raptor engine is 0.0475 SBTU (Standard Banana Time Units). OK, we need a mod for KSP to change to this measurement system! :-)

[@williamkorb]

OK, I've done the math. At 20°C it takes 10 days for a standard banana to rot at sea level. Therefor, the Isp (vac.) of a Raptor is 0.00043981SBTU and Isp (SL) is 0.00038194 SBTU. :-)

[@auguslan1515]

4:47 why do they need a despin mechanism? Everyone knows that if you just timewarp a bit the spinning stops

[@discflame]

they have persistent rotation installed on their client as a part of realism overhaul

[@somerandomnification]

They were trying to avoid the Kraken.

[@altansukht.2877]

Well, you know, if spacecraft spins for too long the onboard computer will feel dizzy and cannot think straight anymore.

[@peterkotara]

It's all in the hips and the step to the left.

[@skyr8449]

@@discflame Actually, Principia now has a built in better version of persistent rotation, so they were probably using that ;P

[@teaser6089]

Everyday Astronaut: "It's a fun story to tell" Me: "It better be, it costed 327 million dollars"

[@teaser6089]

@@bigfoot1861 Go be annoying in Russia*

[@mridho4070]

Not using symmetry tool, sigh

[@Onkfrog]

14:48 ignoring warnings, good old nasa-management tradition

[@philipeanthonybattung3860]

Yep. Same thing happened to the Challenger.

[@ParameterGrenze]

Ignoring warnings and going forward is a not vanishing part of what management is about.

[@cerebralm]

that's a human tradition bud

[@Mosern1977]

Well, most warnings can be ignored....

[@Kirovets7011]

Yep, that's what their good at...

[@AlexanderBatyr]

US units vs rest of the world units. What can go wrong?

[@CatsClaws.]

Do you mean freedom units? From the only free country in the universe?

[@shh6545]

@@CatsClaws. Only.. free.. country...?

[@milanstevic8424]

@@CatsClaws. Oh right. Probably because they've enslaved everyone else in the universe. Makes sense.

[@VictorECaplon]

@shh I think it was a joke. Only very indoctrinated and stupid people would think it’s true. I mean, everyone knows imperials, were from the old systems when countries weren’t free, it’s in the name. While metric were recently created in free countries to help communicate and calculate complex measurements with everyone...except those who rather stay locked in past propaganda.

[@Galerak1]

Nope, I think he means dumb-asse pig-headed units xD

[@Jamesterjim]

Those that spoke up were seen as out of line, but the only thing out of line was the Mars Climate Orbiter.

[@SternLX]

Me: "Son, hand me a 1/2" box wrench." Son: Hands me a 13mm Me: "Smartass." Uses the wrench anyway.

[@RWBHere]

What is a wrench? Most people use spanners. lol

[@Jake-bt7ig]

RWBHere you must be across the pond?

[@SternLX]

@@RWBHere In North America we call it a wrench.

[@jackprier7727]

I did wince just a little at "9/16"--a 14 mm often fits-

[@SternLX]

@@jackprier7727 Heheh. A 14mm might fit if you file the 9/16th head down a little. Assuming it's a Hex head and not a 12 point.

[@martinhughes2549]

The "Gimli" glider incident is another example of standards confusion. Use one system or another. Using 2 systems is a recipe for disaster.

[@ddk]

Gimli glider is an actual unit mixup gone bang 😀

[@christopherkozicki9597]

The airstrip where it landed was converted into a racetrack. My dad happened to be racing the day that the plane landed there. Apparently it was pretty cool.

[@martinhughes2549]

@@christopherkozicki9597 Didn't the plane nearly hit some kids on bikes?it was an amazing piece of flying by the crew.

[@dinoschachten]

I can't for the life of me understand how someone working on software for a spacecraft would decide on using non-metric units. I mean when you code, you face the decision of what units to use. It doesn't just happen. And did I get that right: The code was FROM NASA originally?

[@robinholmes9179]

Almost - using 2 systems or the Imperial system are recipes for disaster! :)

[@velocityaerospace8978]

I need that banana 4 scale! That commercial was so convincing!!🤣

[@williamswenson5315]

We really need an approved pesticide for things like these.

[@gallopinggoose6891]

It's a mod for the game kerbal space program.

[@unvergebeneid]

It's so versatile! Bananas are a unit of length, of volume, of curvature, of radiation... You'll never need anything else! 😄

[@arcaipekyun4232]

Penny Lane 1 banana= 1 microsievert We CAN use it as a radiation measurement Bananas are curved Yeah the superior measurement

[@marcusvojtus7444]

Superior mesurent 😂

[@s4dg]

maaaaan, lockheeds mars missions are ON FIRE! not in a good way though...

[@galnetdor]

that true, I was (in a tiny role) on the team for Mars Observer built at East Windsor Astro (depending on the year, RCA, GE, Martin Marrietta then Lockheed Martin) and we had our own oops moment when we lost MO. due mostly to changing the timing of when an explosive valve was fired.

[@tuhinmia1967]

It's a pity they can't revert to vehicle assembly building

[@s4dg]

@@tuhinmia1967 lol

[@consuminginternalorgans]

Everything science should use the metric system, and I'm saying this as an american.

[@averagejoe6031]

They do, in American high school science classes they use metric exclusively

[@consuminginternalorgans]

Joe H.S I know, that’s why I said what I said.

[@bennybooboobear3940]

@@consuminginternalorgans yeah. At least in medicine, everything is in metric.

[@michi386]

poundseconds...would rather use potato-blinks or sth for measurement instead

[@roadent217]

How about banana slices?

[@_mikolaj_]

Simple sollution: just use metric. Everyone use it, so everyone will understand.

[@Luke-hq1pu]

@Lee His suggestion was simpler

[@abriannaaguilera2123]

Sorry, I don't speak communism. Talk to me on AR-15 length per invasions.

[@nikolafrye8230]

I agree

[@eveve0585]

@@abriannaaguilera2123 so about 15 light seconds per kelvin?

[@williamswenson5315]

You might as well try to get 100% of my fellow Americans to wear masks. Metric? Nope, it's us against the world...as usual.

[@paulhaynes8045]

Only one solar panel? One of the golden rules of engineering - if it looks wrong, it almost certainly IS wrong.

[@Nphen]

Both art and common sense were left out of the mission planning. But look at the entire premise of the program; a cheap, lightweight space probe. Like a Geo Metro in space. Except not symmetrical. Turns out, aerodynamics are still present (just like people intuitively feel like they should be) even in space.

[@jackprier7727]

And had they simply followed the basic advice of inverting every-other spin, we would have a spacecraft, wrong signals or not-

[@timbermicka]

Mars Odyssey shares the exact same design and it worked fine

[@tanmayjaiswal5935]

@@timbermicka the fact that it works does not mean it is a good design. That's like designing a slow car that guzzles fuel with no benefit over a normal car and saying that it's okay to do that because it work.

[@Kirovets7011]

It was made bij Lockheed. So, ofcourse it was wrong!

[@Cold_Leftovers]

I genuinely *LOVE* the fact that your videos are so dense, I’m forced to rewind the video every thirty seconds or so just to make sure I’m absorbing all the space info goodness! 👍 Your content is the most refined independently created educational content on KZbin. And I am such a HUGE fan. I gotta go pick up a shirt from your merch shop and finally give you some monetary support after the years of entertainment you’ve brought me. Love you, Daddy Dodd!!!

[@superrdaan]

Hey Tim, mabye you dont read this mabye you do, but I want to say thank you for everything. All the videos. Especially the really in depth videos. Wow.. it just really helps me understand rocket science ALOT. Thanks to you and the other youtube guys ( marcus, spacexentric, felix, Scott etc.) I am really into this stuff and I like it so much that I convinced my friend's that didn't have anything with space and rockets to also like it. Usually we just talked-about random lifestyle stuff etc but now everytime I see them its about space. Most of the time SpaceX. They now all (including myself) are really monitoring the NASASpaceflight forums for new updates about starship etc 🤣. I have become a true space nerd thanks to you and the rest of the guys! I can't thank you enough and wishing you all the best and good luck with the video's. Keep up the great work!!! THANKS

[@theknave4415]

"Was that metric or imperial?" "Don't know. It'll be fine."

[@Astro_Ape]

The great and mighty Delta II! The first launch I ever saw in person was in September of 2005 on a AFJROTC school field trip from NC. We got to see a GPS sat launch at night time with the Delta II flying in 7925 9.5 configuration.... you talking about something awesome when you get to see 6 side boosters separate while 3 more light in-air, all at night... simply amazing!! I loved the Delta IIs, great rockets!!

[@roeldevries5411]

Awesome video once again! Great insight in a piece of spaceflight history. I like how you give each topic the time it deserves. 18m was great for this one, but 30 or 45 minutes for other topics is great as well. I wouldn’t go above that, though. Don’t be afraid to break up topics if needed, you will keep your unique position with above average vid length (and depth) with 2 30m vids as well. Keep it up!

[@2nd3rd1st]

9:59 I bet NASA wished they had a quicksaving function at that time

[@lodevermeulen9012]

Just making sure: everyone agrees that metric>>imperial, right?!

[@Nimelennar]

Of course. But banana-for-scale>>metric.

[@LiftPizzas]

No, I don't agree. It depends on context and I use both systems. If you need to split things into thirds, metric is crap. Base ten is a terrible number system. If you need to deal with time (meters/sec to km per hour) metric has no advantage at all. Metric also sucks for having not-very-relatable units. (Centimeter is too small, meter is too big, for example.) The gap between one and the next is 10x which is often far to big a leap. If you have any basic arithmetic skills beyond moving a decimal point back and forth then the metric system really isn't "better." And if you're doing something that requires a calculator then either system is just as easy to work with.

[@snuffeldjuret]

@@LiftPizzas but 10 is what we have for numbers, that is why metric is superior.

[@fabianogc]

@@LiftPizzas "Metric also sucks for having not-very-relatable units. (Centimeter is too small, meter is too big, for example.)" That's equivalent of me saying that "yards are too small, miles too big." or "milimeter is too small, inch is too big" or that your method of measuring peoples height is too imprecise. It is nonsense. You say that because you are used to that. Besides, you know we have another unit between centimeter and meter, right? And guess what? We don't use that because it's not necessary. Very few people can even name it. We who use metric solely have no problem with that gap at all. "The gap between one and the next is 10x which is often far to big a leap" You know the gap between inch and foot is 12x, right? So... wtf dude? Besides, in our day by day life (aka when you do not have/need a calculator) you never need to divide things by three with such precision. It's ok. Believe me. In regards to the speed problem you stated, the conversion is in fact crappy. But it lives in the "time" factor measured in s:m:h, which US (surprisingly) also uses. So that's a tie.

[@donadams5503]

@@snuffeldjuret I use hexidecimal alot.

[@Whataboutit]

Hey Tim! I want an explanation on what's a "QUANITY" right now! :D

[@milanstevic8424]

it's a little sisterhood of female ducks. for male brotherhood it would be quackety.

[@profpylons]

“Each and every one of us is capable of mistakes” ❤️

[@mervynleach1362]

I'm sure you put that in just to confirm we're all human.

[@paulmichaelfreedman8334]

Yeah, ME TOO! Looks like Tim doesn't read comments much.

[@DroneMee]

Good job sir! Also, I love the long format and these 15-20 minute ones in between are a perfect way to mix em up.

[@dan85lewis]

Great Video Tim! Thanks for all the hard work you put into your videos. They are always interesting. Sending love from Bristol UK. 18 mins? whats going on???

[@valentinmoeller]

I never swap units. It’s all metric. Weird US haha. Europe says hi!

[@TheConfius]

Hi from Europe (the moon)

[@superskullmaster]

Valentin Möller what units are your money in again? Pretty sure it ain’t metric. But the USD is 😁.

[@nukularpictures]

@@superskullmaster huh? The € is divided into cents. If you mean that by metric.

[@alekosb.8704]

@@superskullmaster the dollar is the base, but a euro is 1.1$, meaning that it values more

[@tankpenguin175]

@@superskullmaster ???

[@andie_pants]

I don't understand how anybody could possibly think that overly-complicated numbering systems like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... are somehow more intuitive and easier to read than 5/32, 3/16, 7/32, 1/4, 9/32, 5/16...

[@andie_pants]

Yes, I'm being a troll. :-P

[@chmeee9562]

I know,right?

[@corporaal1]

Hey Tim, be sure to not overwork yourself. I want to enjoy your vids for a long time to come :). It needs to stay fun for everyone, including you.

[@astrosix6926]

Great video Tim as always. You keep up the great work! Always looking forward to the next video.

[@CommanderCyanide]

YESSS FINALLY NEW EPISODE! Luv ya Tim, keep up the awesome work.

[@Thect]

12:07, in the midnight **New video** Yes!

[@JeffreyBue_imtxsmoke]

Great summary Tim. I worked at LM during this embarrassing incident. Like you stated... we're all human and capable of mistakes but this series of mistakes is really unforgivable considering the costs.

[@JoaoPedroTiago]

"Small video" welcome back :) its not like u ve been missed but it's good to have a smaller look every now and then

[@messyhair42]

Does the 'Banana4Scale' go on RUD when they start to turn brown?

[@adolfodef]

You see, it is a misunderstanding... The "Device" (banana) is for measurement of radiation (as a "standard candle"). It is unrelated to spatial dimensions.

[@sirexilon]

Banana scale or imperial same thing.

[@oradoughball]

Yes, the 'banana standard unit' is used to measure time, radiation half life, distance, and mass.. probably energy, too.

[@siddharthbutala6781]

the last time i was this early, we were measuring using Digits and cubits

[@johanwilmann1072]

I love your "documentary" length video's. So please keep doing those. Although I do understand that those are exhausting to make. Don't get burned out and keep doing awesome work :)

[@SteveEhrmann]

Thanks for this shorter, and every illuminating, video. It's great to hear from you more often. The short form also makes it easier for me to decide, "Yes I'll watch it now" rather than "I'll wait until I have more time to watch."

[@trezapoioiuy]

I like his documentaries though.

[@paulhaynes8045]

I'm not sure that this is a mix up of units problem at heart. Those were early days of the switchover (which here in the UK, we STILL haven't managed - we drive cars built and fueled entirely metric, at MILES per hour!) and problems between systems, especially legacy ones, were bound to occur. And could have been spotted and corrected. The problem was more one of management - both during the mission (ignoring errors and advice) and during the design (having no one in the team who understood how exactly the probe was supposed to get to Mars - and, for instance, the problems produced by the spacecraft not being symmetrical). Same old NASA, I'm afraid. Let's hope by now they have finally learnt their lesson - and Space X, etc have also been paying attention.

[@lotophagi711]

Yes but all engineering and science is SI units. I'm an old bugger and think in imperial and measure in metric.

[@matrick1356]

- This video was uploaded only a week after the most recent video - it's not 1 hour long this is making history

[@Grand58742]

Love your videos, Tim. Informative, creative and keeps your attention. Do you think you could do a future episode on planned commercial space stations and the potential future space tourism along those lines?

[@FelixCrunchy]

And again awesome work tim! thanks for explaining and showing up such things i would have probably missed!

[@Thect]

So... What did we learn from this...? USE METRIC

[@giovannifoulmouth7205]

that's COMMUNISM! We use freedom units in 'Murika!

[@Szolrykor]

@@benistingray6097 There was only confusion after NASA started trying to phase in Metric despite knowing its contractors, the people who actually BUILD and DESIGN things, always used Imperial. The lesson learned is to ignore outsiders meddling in our business, trying to change things to suit them. International cooperation has been the worst enemy of America's space program. And Russia's as well. Absolutely not worth it in America's case just to save some money for the sake of worthless politicians.

[@costakeith9048]

No, what we learned was that you do your design in the same units as your manufacturing; whether it's SI, US Customary, Imperial, Roman, or Planck units, manufacturing dictates design.

[@someonespotatohmm9513]

@@Szolrykor About international collaboration. How is that human space flight program coming along that was dead the last decade...

[@Szolrykor]

​@@someonespotatohmm9513 Terribly, thank you for proving my point. When NASA wasn't able to just run to another country and ask them for a ride to space, it was actually forced to maintain its own human programs. We likely would have followed up on making newer versions of the Space Shuttle concept. Maybe we even could have had our own space stations again instead of pawning it out to Europe, Japan, and Russia.

[@danielquill]

Imperial is just so clunky - use metric. Regardless, for engineers to make such an error in their calculations/assumptions is inexcusable.

[@clewis519]

Danny Quill the blame should be on QA... assuming that existed lol

[@mariueg]

All engineers makes mistakes during their career, but there should be safeguards in place to catch it

[@SirSpence99]

Ah, the sign of someone who hasn't actually made things, only done the math. Unless you are making something smaller than a hair or larger than you, Imperial is objectively better for manufacturing. It only seems clunky because you have software do the math for you and it only accepts that math in decimal. The Imperial system is designed around making it easy to do the math without a computer. Think of it this way, what is 1/4 of a meter? 1/3? 1/2? 1/6? Try that in feet. Funny how much easier it is. Interesting how all of those are common fractions in manufacturing too.

[@snuffeldjuret]

@@SirSpence99 oh yea, I wonder what a half a meter is. I wonder.

[@TheSanien]

Haha what are you talking about gees🤦🏻‍♂️ mmm I wonder what 1/3 of a meter is 🤦🏻‍♂️ clearly you talk the talk but you haven't make anything with precision... nor do you know math very well. It doesn't take Einstein to do simpel math 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@KerbalScott]

Woop!, More Tim, Hope you had a nice time working on a short video. love both forms of content

[@jdclayton868]

Great job, as usual! I remember seeing the mission report on TV and read about the cause months later in Aviation Week. You surpassed a professional periodical by far in detail and exposition, making it understandable for us "everyday people", and taught me the difference between Solar Wind and Solar Pressure. BONUS! Amazing work!

[@MelancholyCrypto]

I hate Imperial, trying to learn all the arbitrary measurements against each other gives me a headache and I've grown up with them.

[@Nphen]

This stuff is easy. Ten stone 4 pounds could just be called a gross of pounds! 8 pints in a gallon. Unless it's an Imperial Pint. A tuppence is worth 4 times as much as a ha'penny. /s That was all I had!

[@martinsachs3837]

ask me not having grown up with it. 1000 fatoms make 1 nautical mile, that is the one thing that makes any kinda sense. the rest is vodoo, not sience.

[@alverro5351]

Thanks Tim!

[@lucasdrever3127]

Your videos are awesome. Very informative but entertaining at the same time. Keep up the great work please 👍🏼

[@astronomical4763]

Yes!!! I've been waiting for this!! Thank you. Hope u are staying safe!

[@CKalitin]

Can’t wait to see what Tim’s says about Banana for Scale on the Our Ludicrous Future Podcast.

[@owenpatterson9355]

You know this all started with one engineer who thought the spacecraft looked way cooler with one solar panel

[@GeneralSeptem]

In my head, it's the one idea he ever had and every contribution he made to the project thereafter was to frame every issue that came up as yet another justification for it. Not like I have experience doing this or anything.

[@owenpatterson9355]

Johnny Steen Yeah as a new engineer in college I definitely experienced some design fixation in my work at school

[@tylerouellette7453]

I clicked on this thinking it was your other new video but got a nice surprise. Keep up the good work!

[@farvque]

Excellent video as always. If memory serves me correctly, there are two other prime examples of space drama where metric vs imperial came into play: First Apollo 13 - I believe the spark which caused the explosion was based upon a metric vs imperial error, and Second - The Hubble Telescope debacle which gave blurry images prior to the fix was also a mirror curvature error relating to metric vs imperial measurement. I could be wrong but I seem to remember both of these had roots in the measurement problem.

[@CG-ln1le]

Metric? My car gets fourty rods to the hogshead and that's the way I like it.

[@williamswenson5315]

Is this a methane/biogas thing?

[@CG-ln1le]

Clearly you are not a StoneCutter.

[@MarcoTedaldi]

Interestingly, the probably most successful program of NASA was all metric. The moon landings. For pilots convenience some displays were showing data in imperial units but internally, everything was metric...

[@Szolrykor]

Why do people actually believe this? Only a couple specific computer systems used Metric. The engineering and design and everything else was all Imperial. This was the 1960's United States. NASA didn't use your beloved international infrastructures, it relied on American manufacturing and communications.

[@arcaipekyun4232]

Saul Rikor that “couple specific computer systems” were the flight computers, the most important avionics.

[@mr.goddardsstemtutorials1944]

This video gets at the heart of "Bringing space down to Earth for everyday people" and I really appreciate it. I love the deep dive videos too, but videos like this are what made me initially subscribe.

[@joshgeiple5573]

This history matches what I was told when I was an intern at JPL in 2003. Great video.

[@000scubasteve]

HEY TIM!!! You have to include Boeing's total facepalm for their demo 1 mission!!! You and I both know what happened with Boeing's demo 1 mission and I has to be the biggest facepalm mission as bad as the Mars boondoggle.

[@TheMotlias]

America actually is on the metric system. All of their measurements are officially defined by metric amounts.

[@ivantimofeev2233]

cause the metric system is modernly defined by universal constants length (light speed) time (fine structure constant) temperature (boltzmann) and recently mass too so, anything other than meter, second, kilogram, kelvin/Celsius (as increment) has to be defined by metric system

[@BEKippe]

@@ivantimofeev2233 I still think that when they changed the definition of a meter they should have just rounded it a bit to 1/300,000,000c.

[@absalomdraconis]

@@ivantimofeev2233 : No, the US Customary system is defined in terms of metric _because that was done in the 1800s._ If an attempt was done to define it today, then those units would likely be defined in terms of universal constants as well. Incidentally, there's no reason why metric being defined in terms of universal constants means everything else has to be defined in terms of metric. It actually makes it easier for everything _else_ to be defined in terms of the constants, since you can just make a conversion to metric, then convert from metric to the constants, maybe adjust the value a little if a nicer number is close enough, then set that _universal constant multiple_ be the reference instead of the metric system. Footnote: a recent astronomical survey suggests that the universal constants aren't actually constant, and in fact have at some point in the past varied on the basis of which direction we look at.

[@Markle2k]

@@ivantimofeev2233 Only since last year. The original definition of the meter was hideously flawed. Still flawed, but less so, was the definition of a Centigrade degree. Also, changing the units to fit the number system rather than the other way around was a huge mistake.

[@MrAlpacabreeder]

BEKippe I also thought that, but it can’t be done because the length is locked in as a fundamental basis for everything else. If you change it, then it adjusts what a Joule is etc... think of Potential Enery in Joules = mgh where h is in meters.

[@surfmonster2323]

@everydayastronaut I designed the double-dendrick philodendron input system on the laser scanner.

[@andrewnorgrove6487]

So look forward to these topics like this My day has finish i settle down to my evening meal listening to and enjoying both things before me Thank You Tim ))

[@rimilmurmu10]

My instrument reports in SI and my computer interpreters in imperial, and mind you we are in charge of big heavy rockets.... Tf

[@alicemoffat]

Petition for banana to scale to become the global measurement unit

[@xepa273]

Felix Moffat nice profile picture

[@MoseyingFan]

Original or modern farm-grown banana?

[@alicemoffat]

Xepa *Spider-man meme pointing at each other*

[@tjnicholas]

Excellent video Tim. Nice to see discussions of errors in complex systems and how there isn’t a single cause!

[@TylerMcDonnell]

Love your content. Can you or have you done a video on the Galileo space probe and it’s problems? Thanks keep up the great videos.

[@BobCat981]

It's a valuable lesson.... Oh hell yea! 327 million in value :D Thats why i frequently use quicksaves. You see, i've learned my lesson(s) too...

[@ddk]

KSP FTW

[@Len-eo2ln]

It still boggles my mind the US hasn't made the switch to the metric system yet.

[@Cornerback3141]

It sure would be nice but it would probably be very expensive for the US to do a complete switch.

[@Szolrykor]

Does it boggle your mind that there are still countries who speak languages that aren't English/Spanish/French?

[@CeladonHairExtraordinaire]

Really love the shorter video format. A mix of both is sweet!

[@flechette3782]

Excellent synopsis. When I first saw that you did a video on this subject I was afraid that it would just be a watered-down "it was the units" show, but you went into great detail of the other issues. However, Metric units are not the better unit. Mars is 155M rods away and the spacecraft weighed 28.7 pood.

[@marc-antoinechayer5371]

less then 20 min congrats lol

[@fxw2k]

It's time to go Metric now.

[@LordFalconsword]

We tried in the 70s.

[@fxw2k]

@@LordFalconsword I know, try harder this time.

[@hvr1874]

Why specifications and specification oversight is so important. This was used as an example in my computer science program and detailed case study in my satellite systems course. And must give it to Tim, his explanation and presentation what happened is the best I've seen.

[@davidscates3231]

I went to college to get my degree when the UK started to convert to the metric system (it still hasn't finished!). Our Dynamics lecturer had a particularly nasty habit of setting problems in weird systems of units to get us used to conversions. One I particularly remember was the Furlong/Firkin/Fortnight system. Not the easiest system (hint - the firkin part was the mass of a firkin of water).

[@greggb557]

Metric is the ONLY true standard. Imperial is like doing maths thinking 1+1=3

[@giovannifoulmouth7205]

Imperial is best at confusing your enemies.

[@Brixxter]

@@giovannifoulmouth7205 and your own engineers

[@Szolrykor]

@@Brixxter Only after international idiots force a foreign system into your country. Notice there was no problem when it was just Imperial, only when NASA started trying to use Metric too.

[@Brixxter]

@@Szolrykor NASA used metric to land on the moon.

[@quisqueyanguy120]

@@Szolrykor NASA used metric system in the Apollo program.

[@simonwhite8474]

Love the subtitles.....'Mission Control' subtitled as 'Michigan Troll'. Units for everything should be SI, except beer, which should come in pints. Cheers.

[@jackfrost3963]

Traditionally, yeah, but I'd rather have a litre of beer than a pint.

[@matthewgoodwin8093]

People who do anything in imperial should be shot.

[@teds8747]

I almost skipped over the commercial!.. then realized it wasn't.. glad I didn't!.. thanks Tim!

[@krazybubbler]

Dude, you're creating amazing content. Initially I thought "oh, yet another video about this issue" and treated it as a bait, but I decided to check it out and I'm so NOT disappointed! I learned a lot of new stuff here (in less than 20 mins 😉). Thanks for all your hard work!

[@pequalsnpsquared2852]

3:02 meters needs to be lowercase to mean much

[@someonespotatohmm9513]

Got to love the classic 2.0 Mega unitless. Also some weird perspective going on with the man besides and presumably far behind it, being half the height of the 1.6m tall craft.

[@kanva4]

Not first

[@ChrisMichals]

Excellent video & yes, these shorter ones are great.

[@isaacplaysbass8568]

Great to get the in depth detail on this one, thank you yet again Tim :)

[@BobCat981]

Take ANY decimal number of a kilometer - it literally takes 10 yo kid seconds to know how many meters or milimeters or centimeters are in it. Or decimeters :) No calculators, no pen and paper. Pick not just any smart kid but THE smartest kid in US and ask him how many inches are in, lets say, 57.396 miles.... See how long it takes him (or her). Same goes for EVERYTHING.. Liters, kilograms - you name it. Super easy, super simple - a bloody kid can do it. METRIC RULES!

[@ronfullerton3162]

Oh, now I understand. Metrics are for lazy or dumb people. Don't have brain seizure, I am only kidding. The metric system is easier to start using, and everything converts so much easier. But for someone who came up on imperial measurements and used them all the time, your brain is automatic in changing values back and forth. Everyone's brain becomes trained in the use of any system it uses continually. But when you go to something different, surprise, you have to start out and learn and become accustom to it. I love the blood and gut arguments about things like this subject. One is definitely easier for common use, but neither is wrong. The one definitely wrong thing is trying to mix them together in the same program such as this case. Which is a slip in management. And NASA did the right thing in specifying everything will be metric only after this. Understanding both systems is really a plus.

[@Szolrykor]

Hmmm, a system that's supposed to be best suited to the super complicated sciences. And yet the conversion is something a 10 year old can do. It almost seems like the conversion is so easy because it doesn't actually mean anything and you're just moving a decimal around for literally no reason.

[@BobCat981]

@@ronfullerton3162 Ridiculous. Noone is saying you can't do anything with imperial system - of course you can! And its not about being lazy nor its not about space and this particular case with Mars Climate Orbiter. Its about EVERYTHING else around you! I am least concerned how NASA will cope - thos they do have the smartest people working there and they made (surprise surprise!) a smart decision to stick with only metric from now on.... Can i ask you to define a gallon for me? Google says its 8 pints. And google also says a pint is 1/8th of a gallon.....!?!? You know what liter is? It's 1 cubic decimeter - 100*100*100 milimeters of volume and you have 1 liter! So simple - its not about being lazy - its about making life easier for yourself. Conveniently, 1 liter of water is also (about) 1 kilogram - tho now a kilogram is defined a bit more precisely... Of course it takes effort to make a switch, but the issue is - you aint taking NO effort. " your brain is automatic in changing values back and forth. " - please, convert 34.872 miles for me to inches and then back to lets say feet. Lets see how automatic you are about it. Then tell me how big of a tank you must have to store, lets say, 50 gallons of fuel in it.... 34.872 km = 34 872 meters = 34 872 000 mm. 50 liters = 5m * 0.1m * 0.1m = 0.05 m3 of volume - this only took me time it takes to type it. Didnt have to do ANY calculations. Almost 0% chances of making a mistake. Its not about being lazy. Its about making life easier for yourself! Sooner you accept that, sooner and easier the switch will be :p Look far into the future - what will future americans think of present day americans - same what we think about folks that didnt want to make a switch to gregorian calendar just because it came from "outside" and they had no issues with julian calendar at the time... Now we know better and gregorian was and still is the way to go....... Metric is the way to go also!

[@ronfullerton3162]

@@BobCat981 You really need to improve on your reading comprehension!

[@JoaoPedroTiago]

wanted to add 1more metric joke.... Imagina a country born from a revolt agsaist an empire that then chooses to use the "imperial" system oh nononono

[@jordirosa2263]

Hahahahahaha XD

[@costakeith9048]

But we don't use the imperial system, we use the US customary system and there are some notable differences.

[@mduckernz]

@@costakeith9048 True, although the vast majority are unchanged from their origins in the Roman Empire

[@panners125]

The first A 380 fuselage was being constructed in different countries and assembled in France. The measurement standard between France and Germany was different. So when the two parts were placed next to one another, they didn’t fit together. It’s was an expensive lesson learned there as well.

[@davidbeal6925]

Yeah Tim *can* do a short video. Love the idea that you're going to continue doing long form, deep dive videos, while interspersing with fun short topics like this.. You do the long form/documentary style so we'll, discovery channel would be wise to ask you for content!

[@wholenutsanddonuts5741]

Lord when will the US and especially NASA finally get the point and join the rest of the world?! Metric is the only logical choice.

[@chmeee9562]

One of the countermeasures after the MCO failure was that ALL NASA contractors had to use metric going forward.

[@wp12mv]

Actually, 70% of US companies already uses metric. Its the consumers who are wilfully ignorant

[@rcoder01]

NASA has been using pretty much only metric since 1990

[@Makoto778]

@@chmeee9562 For the MCO, Nasa actually required Lockheed to use metric (as per software interface specification) but Lockheed used imperial units anyway and Nasa never noticed. Afterwards, Nasa was required to work more closely with contractors and make sure that things were done according to specification.

[@williamswenson5315]

The choir hears you.

[@goodyKoeln]

That’s why everything beside metric is just wrong. 🤪

[@chillfill6512]

Poor °C, Barrs, Hours, Litres and other world-wide used non SI units...

[@samuelfischman6949]

BaNaNaS

[@FoilHatGuy]

@@chillfill6512 celsius is just a kelvin but more convenient. Barrs are non SI but mostly used while inflating tires, so it's ok. Liters are 1 kg of water. any drink is in liters or ml. They may be non SI but made for a convenience. And they are bound to SI so it's easy to convert

[@donjones4719]

Did you just deny Bananas for Scale?

[@goodyKoeln]

@ChilL FilL Temperatur and time keeping is broken anyway. 🤭 Don’t know why liters is a thing.

[@Danny_S.]

Thank you EA for taking the time to give us the information in this video. This video would have been horrible at 8 minutes long. SO much information would have been left out.

[@colevanwyk3056]

YES!!! another EDA vid....already!!! what a surprise, thanks Tim!

[@gabrielhacecosas]

The metric system is not the best measurement system, it's the only one, the others are just cavernicolous systems like making marks on bones and things like that. 😉😉

[@patricktho6546]

if it is the only one, it is the best and the worst one at the same time

[@skvalen]

And the irony is that the imperial system is defined from the metric system these days.

[@trezapoioiuy]

Lol. Basically, it means they know they're wrong, but are too proud to admit it.

[@Szolrykor]

@@trezapoioiuy No, it means they care more about "integration". The definitions of Metric aren't any less arbitrary than what Imperial was.

[@colesauerberg1094]

@@Szolrykor Measuring the properties of the most common fluid on Earth doesn't seem arbitrary to me at all. And every time I look at my fingers I count ten.

[@trezapoioiuy]

Saul Rikor having 15 inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard and 1760 yards in a mile is arbitrary and inconsistent. If Italy insisted on using Roman numerals instead of Arabic, it would still be a way to count the same numbers, but we’d be a laughingstock to the rest of the world, and they’d be right to laugh.

[@AlexSchendel]

Oh man, I was afraid of another in-video ad when you said that 😂 Gosh, Amy was hilarious

[@b25mitchel]

Nice episode. You are working hard.