MFJJ x Tim Connor "Arrow Weight and Vane Test Hot Takes"

[@DrakeValleyOutdoors]

"Cougars actually really good" - "Which version?" We all know the question Tim was really asking, and his face the whole time Josh is answering just confirms that 😂

[@ericjb80]

Classic Tim

[@AAXOG]

Josh said "cougar sausage" to be specific🫢🤭

[@keppin4242]

Also "You gotta take care of your meat" 😆

[@radecal5580]

Just listened to this and thought that anything that needs further clarification or apologies and refinement should be called "Refletching" just for this podcast. Keep it up guys

[@radecal5580]

Thanks for the like! As an archer from Zimbabwe this podcast and the rest of the KZbin archery world has been a great resource.

[@harrisonharding]

Thank you for putting numbers to the heavy arrow talk and explaining why that matters and to just adjust your broadhead if you're concerned, that's exactly what i needed to hear! Thank you guys!

[@robertwilliamson6958]

That deer drop calculator thing is incredible. I’d love to see that chart. Incredibly intriguing.

[@woodson159]

Love this podcast please keep educating us on the hardest things to learn when it comes to bow hunting

[@thenameiwantedwastaken]

Was scrolling through Tims channel and noticed the cheap vs expensive bow vid has over 100k views! Massive congratulations

[@JoshandTim]

Thanks dude! - tc

[@T-Mak-s7x]

Many of the times up here in northern Michigan 20 miles from any town and noise, we can’t even get to full draw with our recurves or the deer are gone, wearing quiet fleece! Especially when it’s zero degrees.

[@shanetrudell4061]

This is possibly my favorite podcast to wind down the day to.

[@YoureSoVane]

If you want to talk vanes and vane testing, I'd love to do a cameo. I test all kinds of vanes with and without my LabRadar, and have a few observations that would make a great discussion. Wind drift, retained velocity, and a little bit on control and matching vane stiffness to broadhead style and shooting conditions.

[@JoshandTim]

Send us a link to your content

[@RossTomazin]

As a big Origin (Jocko's clothing company) wearer, I can assure you that the Delta 68 jeans are INSANELY stretchy. They advertise that you can do jiu-jitsu in them. Origin's original product was jiu-jitsu gis, and they still make quite a bit of jiu-jitsu gear.

[@jessegillenwater]

The answer to your MeatEater podcast is the Housekeeping portion of the show! This portion of the show is where corrections are made from previous epidsodes.

[@ultragunnervb]

I saw that test that MFJJ mentioned and replayed the video and also noticed the DCA vein wasnt used. They did show DCA was better at stabilizing quickest in like the first test and then started omitting it, strange.

[@theruggedarts2751]

I look forward to hearing these every week. Good work!

[@JoshandTim]

Thanks for listening

[@SEPA.1973]

T-Bone did a great video about bow tuning. He focused on arrow speed (not too fast). I think he preferred 280 fps as an end goal. Lots of guys talk about slowing arrows down. Check it out!

[@nathanwade8143]

Dudley is all about 265-285 if I remember correctly. I think that’s kind of a happy medium goal speed. Not super light, not crazy heavy.

[@stick__shooter]

If you watch the tests that John Lusk puts out you'd probably be surprised. The aluminum ferrule Swhackers (especially the 1.75 version) held up much better than the Slicktrick Raptor Trick. Also, with the Swhackers you still get a 1" cut on entrance, which won't be great for blood trail, but is better than nothing. They also make a hybrid version that would give you a 1"x1" entrance. Also, Swhacker is now Made in USA and Slicktrick is made in China.

[@HuntFishShootChannel]

You’ll get a bigger than 1 inch hole on entrance. It’s comparable to any other 2 inch cut. Whether the design is to open after the rib cage or not, it cuts a 2 inch hole going in

[@ViCtOrZ803]

I agree with Tim’s statement at (45:40)where he stated that he wishes the click was louder on the ONNEX C, It’s a great release, but that would’ve been my only critique as well.

[@jrhunt414]

A 300 lb deer was shot behind my house about 15 years ago. Shot out of a swamp that nobody hunts and is almost inaccessible. I saw it and it was just over 300. The neck on it was like a tree trunk. The taxidermist had to order a special foam for it. Amazing buck. Shot in Death Valley, Minot, Maine.

[@JoshandTim]

Words!!

[@johnsmith1812]

Shout out to the my East Coast Hunters! I’m from MA and my local shop used to carry Athens and Elite. Can you guess which one they don’t carry anymore?

[@brettwelch8368]

I have 2 pair of the Delta jeans and they have a pretty good stretch, I have 0 issues doing deep squats in their jeans. Highly recommend, gonna try out their camo next year.

[@buckallison7279]

Knowing this wasn't the best choice or best choice. This years Bull I shot was a 71 yrd frontal. 444 grain arrow sevr 1.75. 80lbs limbs arrow was moving at 287 ft per sec. I practiced this shot last target on range every evening at 90 yrds just in case. Bull made it 100+ yards giant blood trail and died. This Bull was #1 on my scouting hit list day 7 of 9 day hunt. I had luck, I am also a killer. I am an ok target guy. I will also be taking my arrow lower weight this year because I want 300fps. So I will be going to something around 410 grains. Want to thank both of you for your opinions and real reviews. Also, spokane archery for taking care of my 22 year old daughter with her archery needs. She is single and newer and spokane archery treated her with great respect and help with her setup.

[@mlwalters73]

I have the same boot problem. 15 4E. The only boots I have found are Lathrop and Sons or Lowa Renegades.

[@steammaker48]

Josh you guy's are on top of it. I've ordered several things over the last couple days and they are all arriving within 2 or 3 days of ordering (I'm in Ohio so its not like im close). Keep up the great work!

[@johnheitkamp4792]

Hey so idk if would be able to sell enogh but I'm still a fan of 246 arrows, i would by titanium inserts for them if you got some!

[@johnsand8495]

63 year old guy here, I've shot light arrows and heavy arrows. My comfort zone on arrow weight is 440-460.

[@therealdilloutdoors616]

Shwacker works great on deer with thin skin and hide. On pigs and I would imagine elk they really slow down trying to pry open in thick rib/hide

[@billyatwell8659]

You have to define "forgiveness." Tuning forgiveness? Hunting shot forgiveness? A crazy fast arrow will get to the target faster than a higher weight arrow (out of the same bow). But it won't tune as well, by and large. It will be more susceptible to errors in shooting form. Add a fixed blade broadhead, and the forgiveness gets even worse--much worse. I like a fast arrow, but it takes more tuning and better form to work out well. I've found that for adult men specs(55+lb dw, and 27+" draw)...a 440-500gr arrow with a reputable mechanical is the sweet spot of speed, tuning forgiveness, hunting forgiveness, etc. The lower the dw and dl, the more you should consider a fixed head. But if you're shooting 60lb or more and have a 28" dl or longer, a mechanical will fly better and tune better.

[@DrMadMax]

This is not necessarily true especially if by heavy arrow you mean high FOC. High FOC can create it’s own host of problems with arrow flight. A heavy arrow with low FOC isn’t the same as a heavy arrow with high FOC. A heavy arrow may be a solution for someone with low draw wt. or length but it shouldn’t be the norm for everyone. People don’t understand the concept of arrow flight, the purpose of your traditional vanes, and aerodynamics. 1) why people have poor arrow flight at high speeds is because majority of arrows aren’t spine index correctly/oriented in their proper bend. 2) use too big of a profile broadhead which supersedes what the vanes can do. You essential just put bigger vanes on the front of the arrow. 3) anything over 280fps and aerodynamics becomes super important and regular vanes such as blazer, aae, ect. do a poor job of stabilizing an arrow because they can no longer work on the drag principle and start to flutter. Instead of building arrows correctly people will essentially make arrows heavier which will drop arrow speeds down to 260-80fps and they all say this is their sweet spot. Reason being they slowed an arrow down enough we’re aerodynamic is not a huge factor and regular vanes can start working on the principle of drag. Of course it’s easier to control a car at 40mph vs 80mph. I would rather build a proper arrow, use proper vanes, use a proper fixed broad head rather than making it slower by making it heavier. You will see these concepts quite evident in crossbow world where you have fps as high as 500+ now.

[@madman432000]

There is no shortage of 100yd shots in Western WA if that's what you want to do, in the timber or clear-cuts. You can also hunt brush with 15yd visibility.

[@rocksaltoutdoors]

I've been shooting x impacts for a couple of years now floating around the 500-515gr mark. Haven't had anything get out of the way of them yet, but also longest shot on a deer has been 56yds

[@goldxpeak3842]

I’m at 530gr total weight and shooting the focos with 150gr heads, tuffhead evo 2.0 broadheads are what I’ve been working on tuning and I think none of my issues have anything to do with the setup but I’ve found with my Hoyt nitrum 30 27.5” dl 66dw, if I don’t get a solid push, pull, release my broadheads don’t come off the bow good and the margin of arrow at 20yds is about 4” off center.

[@joshkraut3901]

Love this dialogue. I shot an elk and a mule deer this year with a 450gr. Rip tko with a rage nc. (Controversial head for sure) elk ran 75 yards crashed in 20secs. Deer shot thru front shoulder both lungs out the other side into a tree at 35 yards. Understandably I shoot a 29.5 draw and 75lbs. But I truly believe speed has increased my confidence in guessing range and knowing that arrow is going to hit hard.

[@Orr_s]

Cant agree more on the whole extreme FOC thing! Especially with draw lengths and poundage that is less than ideal for even a slightly heavy arrow. Im at 29.5” and 75# and i still wouldnt do the whole ranch fairy thing because a flat trajectory and middle of the road total arrow weight with decent FOC is literally such a sweet spot.

[@jacobwilliams4979]

What spine arrow do you shoot with those specs?

[@Orr_s]

@@jacobwilliams4979 dropped to 72# currently with a 100 grain head. 60 grain total ethics insert and collar. VAP SS cut as short as i can 3 Tac driver 2.25” vanes and 15 grain halo nocks. Perfect paper tear with 300 spine. But im probably pushing it. Although MFJJ usually shoots 300 spine as well to stay as light gpi as he can.

[@Orr_s]

@@jacobwilliams4979 dropped to 72# currently with a 100 grain head. 60 grain total ethics insert and collar. VAP SS cut as short as i can 3 Tac driver 2.25” vanes and 15 grain halo nocks. Perfect paper tear with 300 spine. But im probably pushing it. Although MFJJ usually shoots 300 spine as well to stay as light gpi as he can. Im right around 15.8% foc i believe

[@DavidBowCrazyBabyak86]

Them slick trucks work well and I didn't bend any on two out of 3 I found after using lol

[@gordonm.3729]

Athens started in Indiana originally.

[@CJay2987]

Shot an athens flagship at a shop next to a prime and pse. Didnt dislike it. Didnt love it. Liked the prime revex and pse fortis better.

[@JohnNeedham-zk5ms]

It kicks off in ga in September

[@jacobnikolaisen4538]

Sioux falls has a costco and sams club within 2 miles of eachother

[@nicholaswarwick9580]

Love my SVA hoodie haha it’s the season, definitely need more colors brother

[@chuckcapps7325]

Man I laughed when MFJJ said Piggly Wiggly. My hometown had 2000 people in SE Arkansas and we have a Piggly Wiggly. The only grocery store by the way.

[@JoshandTim]

Lol same here - tc

[@Cparchery...]

The owners of athens are incredible only companies I've called and talked to the owner

[@Codyhunts]

Tac vanes put the DCA footage up through the biscuit. It’s on their channel.

[@cseckel62]

before i watch this fireside , i swear by my v3x 29 at 73# With VAP TKO's with heat vanes at 428gn it gets the job done without any issues. Id like to get a new bow this fall but its a bullet proof setup.

[@joeyborawa3806]

I live in upstate NY and absolutely love your podcast 😁

[@DavidBowCrazyBabyak86]

Believe it or not American eagle or aeri jean pants and shorts got a good bit of stretch not sure on sizes though

[@kylerbowers180]

Want to pick your brain a bit. Field points and broadheads both aren’t flying consistent. Last I checked, bow was shooting bullet holes through paper (very recently). Do I need the shop to check the tune again or what do I do?

[@JoshandTim]

watch one of our broadhead tuning vids!

[@kylerbowers180]

@@JoshandTim even when the field points are flying consistent with each other?

[@frankspataro9714]

Tim seen your shooting that hoyt it looks awesome but I'm proud of you brother glad you started doing things differently trigger release and hoyt still might not be you but shoot the dang strings off it you will be better off all the way around you do you congrats

[@joevandivner9704]

500 to 550 is my sweet spot keeps me around 265-285 and it pounds. Never seen an animal move completely out the way but I have seen them move and the arrow not hit exactly where u wanted and that’s when you want something with a little weight. Always love hearing guys talk about needing faster arrows because they gotta shoot 50-89 yards and yet video after video I see Elk getting shot at 15 to 25 yards. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want to shoot the heaviest arrow you could to stay at a decent velocity

[@joshvanarman7089]

Are you going to test bowmars new broadheads?

[@josephbrindisi7822]

Would have been nice to see an Athens peak 38 up against the Mathew’s atlas and the Hoyt highline for the long draw guys.

[@takuroshinji2445]

Where can we find the link to the deer drop speed website please.

[@MrCruz9996]

When you are Texas hog hunting in the thick bush where you’ll be lucky to get a shot beyond 20, five 50-600 grain “ meet missile “ works very well

[@sinepari9160]

I like the josh and tim channel

[@georgefrisch7606]

This maybe a dumb question but 425-475 is with full set up correct. Broadhead & everything, correct?

[@JoshandTim]

Yessir

[@georgefrisch7606]

@@JoshandTim appreciate yall! Keep up the great podcasts.

[@DavidBowCrazyBabyak86]

Great episode again

[@justinyoung8234]

You talk about arrow weight ranges a lot. Is there a speed range? I’ve heard above 300 fps makes broadheads hard to tune. For those of us with high energy setups should we add weight? 509 gr at 312 fps. If I were to take it down some to say 475 that would increase my speed but at what point is that a bad thing? Could be an interesting discussion with MFJJ.

[@jasonard7227]

the soda can has been done by chris bee I think

[@Graygoatoutdoors111]

Really enjoy the videos wondering your thoughts on expedition xlight Bows

[@caseyk6625]

There's really no reason not to shoot as heavy arrow as you're comfortable with shooting. When I shot compound, I was shooting 70 lbs at 30" draw and I was using an FMJ 340 and my total arrow weight was around 485 grains. I felt that was perfect for what I was looking for. Now that I'm shooting Trad gear I'm up in the 525 to 580 grains and I don't like going heavier because trajectory really suffers. But I have no problem with someone shooting something heavier if that's what they want to do. People who are uping their arrow weights are killing what they are shooting and seeing first hand the benefits of having a heavier arrow.

[@eliaspuebla9015]

Love the videos learned a lot from y’all

[@tomradke1121]

Look at Crimson Talon broad heads

[@andysmith8295]

i also watched the schwacker test with a well known pro archer, i was thinking they are biasing everything in their favor..was not fooled.

[@Clipped.hunting]

Nap makes a titanium version of that broadhead, truglo also makes a titanium version as well.

[@50magz]

They bought out truglo

[@Clipped.hunting]

@@50magz when you say “they” do you mean Nap bought truglo?

[@spodyr6]

Athens makes a great bow. I'm sure if SVA brought in 5 new Athens they would sell in no time once people shot it. I totally understand MFJJ's position on the matter though.

[@patrickdoan1291]

Used code Tim C on a Ez green press😎

[@l.i.archer5379]

I shot a buck yesterday with my Bowtech Destroyer 350 at 65#, 26.5" DL using a 390 grain .300 spine Victory RIP XV Gamer arrow with 15% FOC, and going 280 fps. The arrow blew right through the buck and kept going (I completely lost the arrow in really thick stuff), and it flew like a laser beam (watching the lighted nock leave my bow). The buck ran 10 yards and dropped like a stone. It was a slight quartering-away shot and I aimed for the opposite shoulder. The arrow entered right in the middle of his ribcage and came out right in front of his opposite shoulder.

[@Sparky513]

I'm at 70#s with 26.5"DL and a 436grain 18% foc arrow and it's 281fps 😆 I'm looking forward to putting an arrow into an animal.

[@alexgarete1521]

I’m shooting low 280s with 525 grains 29.5 inch draw. Looking forward to shooting one as well

[@alexgarete1521]

70lbs

[@Sparky513]

@alexgarete1521 yea us short draw guys ain't blessed with that lol. If I used a 525gr arrow my speed would drop down to 225ish if I was lucky. When I was using a 475gr my speeds were around 240ish. Now I got a new set of bloodline strings and lighter arrow with titanium insert and titanium broadheadand a stiffer spine these things are lasers beams. Those bloodline strings added close to 10fps not are if its because there thinner strings or what

[@alexgarete1521]

@@Sparky513 ya that’s unfortunate and can be tough because that extra draw length really helps you push some of these heavier arrows the same speeds these big elk deer hunters swear by shooting the 280 range

[@Aaronrohn]

Origin jeans have a good amount of stretch

[@garymiller4715]

The origin delta 68 jeans are stretchy

[@eliaspuebla9015]

Imagine working in a industry for a decade and then having to find a whole other industry to work in

[@DavidBowCrazyBabyak86]

There aren't many Costco here in west pa or a Piggly wiggly never heard of that ha

[@jasonard7227]

great podcast gents time for the next one thx...

[@raider9170]

Crazy to hear you guys talk about Menards like it’s in a far off land. Here in Michigan they are everywhere. The one you did forget is Blains Farm and Fleet. If you have that and a Buc-ees you need nothing else. The arrow chat was fantastic. Just this weekend a handful of us were having this conversation. I like “light” arrows (400-425gr) that go fast for white tail where a couple friends SWEAR you’re better off with 550-600gr and are totally happy with 260fps because of “knock drown power”. I’m pretty sure their justifications and “logic” gave me herpes

[@bigz5262]

Menards is a Wisconsin based company so it’s not that crazy that you have them in Michigan. The whole arrow mass topic is retarded. There’s reasons for both. There’s downsides to both ends of the spectrum and both have their positives. Just make sure you’re arrow flight is perfect, your broadhead is sharp, you know where to aim, and have the ability to hit where you’re aiming

[@jimlacek6847]

I still like shooting 4 inch feather vanes. White for hunting. And esston Whiteout arrows. Just easier for me to follow the flight and shows more on the arrow after the hit. What is the biggest difference between feather and plastic vanes for you? And I know bows are lighter and better build with today's machinery and computers they should be. How do we justify buying bows today though, in that, 1200 for bow. say mathews lift, but then to add accessories especially if they are mathews accessories, you could be looking at another 1500.00. so 2700.00 to 3000.00 for a bow. But in a year or 2 that sane set up is worth half that. I have so many friends that hunt but they shake their head at that. Tree stand light weight 6 lb 400 to 700. Do you think these companies are going yo price themselves out some day? camo cost 250 to 400. same for pants. I get up an a tree with blue jeans or brown cathart play the wind don't get busted on movement or draw and you can kill. Speeds for out west okay I get it. longer shots but here on the east 20 to 30 yards. To many small limbs in the way. What are the quietest vanes to shoot. I don't think animals jump the string, I think they hear the arrow flight coming. Like ducks breaking the wind with their wings. or even a flock of song birds. So a quiet arrow is key?

[@brandonneff3432]

Blue collar Outdoors has a test video of that raptor trick Broadhead and the blades bent just shooting it through gelatin block, I don’t think in my personal opinion shooting it through an animal is a good idea. I personally do not like any of the broad heads that fold over the top of themselves because they take so much energy to open up. However, I do like the fact that it it is, and I’ll steal Broadhead.

[@jasonard7227]

growing deer tv did a video about deer dropping on the shot with some contraption it was cool and it dont matter the speed the deer can beat it unless your 5-10 yards

[@longshotdiedtired1582]

Are you sure about that ? I feel like all the deer I’ve killed within 25yds the arrow went exactly where I was aiming

[@jasonard7227]

@@longshotdiedtired1582 im not sure of anything thats what they show and I have had a deer drop under a very fast and light arrow at 18 yards she looked like the matrix

[@tenaciousD_enis]

Brown or green hoodie..

[@goldxpeak3842]

The most disgusting beef I have ever ate was from a cow who went down giving birth to a still born calf. We figured we would turn her into burger. Tacos from the burger were inedible.

[@karlackerman7810]

Nope nope, Tim gets to retract/redact next week JJ! Menards is not on the level with Home Depot haha. Menards is to a lumber store what Harbor Freight is to tool stores.

[@wesmurer6884]

Yes, do some tan Carhartt

[@79travisdee]

Not what he meant when he said which version of cougar😂

[@wesmurer6884]

Now your talking. A man only need some Wranglers. You usually have 3 different stacks, 1 that’s your old basically wore out ones for those dirty nasty jobs, 1 stack for everyday, 1 stack for you nice go to town/ church, wedding!

[@christian_U81]

TIM struggled to hold it from the point MFJJ said he had all kinds of cougars, the mic stand is like a bad string. shoot a fire arrow :)

[@JoshandTim]

Glad someone noticed!

[@jetjohnson1106]

Fellas this is my favorite podcast but the first 20min had no value whatsoever for the viewers. Cool that Josh was willing to correct his statements but get on with it! 😂

[@Fite234]

Books need to be wider! My Bigfoot feet need more boots made in 4E or wider. I can never find any that last and fit.

[@kylegreenwood469]

Hard to take any man over 30 with a Mohawk seriously😂!

[@tomradke1121]

Try Keen shoes

[@chrismacomber9727]

MFJJ I know your probably herd this before bus sevr makes a bad ass Titanium 1.75 you should look at...and no they won't sell it to your shop , my understanding is you have to bye from them but I shot a deer this year and wow!!! But they are cheaper due to the fact that there is not mark up for the store or shop ....( I know that the shops have to to make a living) nothing rong with that..

[@EngineeringDude42]

500 grains all day.

[@kylehardin936]

Curious about your comment on in-person interviews only with regard to your podcasts. It seems like every other notable archery podcast includes others who can link in for a discussion. I think you are really hamstringing yourself with that limitation.

[@JoshandTim]

A risk we’re willing to take.. in person conversations are the most powerful

[@lawrencefranck9417]

Retract to take back, redacted is to blackout/cover up.

[@InvestorAcademyPodca]

Give me a break, you’ll never shoot over 1.5 except you will shoot 2”? Just be honest.

[@Silbar89]

Can I just say, and I'm not trying to be mean here, that one of the last if not absolute last things I want on this planet is a taste of MFJJ's feet?

[@briandewitt3306]

I like em heavy ... except for women

[@Thedudeabides803]

Well I definitely won’t ever shoot an Athens bow 😂

[@sarcazmo]

I have two Athens bows. They’re great

[@jasonard7227]

yes how a animal is killed has a lot to do with it. I like to dog hunt but stopped just cause the meat has to be made into burger or sausage cause all the adrenaline being pumped in while the deer is being chased imo..

[@Lovenlife139]

A mean mowhawk but sits like a women 🤣

[@jasonard7227]

for sure am not with yall on speed and light arrows I use 550 grains going 291 fps 79 pounds 29 inch draw with iron will single bevel. I used to use 400ish grain arrows and if that hit bone it never passed through with a mech. head and a few times with a thunder head. since going up ive never not got a pass through even sent one through the length of the body from the rooter to the tooter. oh black eagle rampage and victory ss arrows. shoot what you want but i will never go back down to 400ihs grains. im gonna try 500 next year or when the arrows I have now are junk. I think 291 fps is plenty fast

[@JoshandTim]

That’s a smoking setup

[@jasonard7227]

oct. 21st where im at

[@tenaciousD_enis]

You would think if she took the time to call you about your show...she would send you a demo to prove what her product could do..I also live in PA..used to live on new york state line. In athens, pa..never seen an athens in real life..I do know that @theaveragejack stocks/reps them based on his youtube videos.

[@giolyfts]

Love these, keep them coming🤙