Miami Dice: Rise of Tribes

[@lexmartel]

Those reviews are the one I preffer. It's nice to see a divergence of opinion and also of how some people interacted with the game!

[@thediceodyssey4690]

This! This is why I love discussion reviews. I get to hear both sides of the coin and it was an awesome discussion.

[@jeremyslayton]

Great review guys! I think the difference in taste and perspective on this game added a lot of depth to the review. Sometimes, when everyone agrees on the review, the subtleties of the pro’s and con’s can be lost in conversation. It seems that many people will love this game and many people will really dislike this game. From a game design perspective, I think that is a really good place to be.

[@BreakingGamesVideo]

Awesome look at the game, great coverage of rules Sam. Thank you! To the "wish there was wooden fish and other components, etc" we did unlock a Deluxe edition upgrade set on KS, epic mammoth, sabertooth and more. Didn't have copies in yet when we sent this for Dice Tower Con, but happy to get to you - Sam, come see us at Gen Con! Booth #2329. Thanks Tom for the honest feedback. Hmm, the tribes will need Zee now to be the tie breaker it seems. :)

[@Sajatzsiraf]

if i show up in a Sam-costume, will you believe me and hand me a copy? :)

[@npckse8508]

Any consideration of one day selling the upgraded components on your webpage?

[@BreakingGamesVideo]

True MIkolaj, we're happy they looked at the standard version. It is great as is. Only gets better. :) We aren't restricting deluxe to only KS however, everyone can get!

[@BreakingGamesVideo]

Already a thing, pre-orders for August. :) Here's a link: breakinggames.com/products/rise-of-tribes-deluxe-upgrade

[@flamingpi6c73]

I got the deluxe edition in the kickstarter, and the wooden components are great! I also have to say that the insert being able to hold the "upgrade" box was AWESOME!

[@bushibayushi]

Love this review. I have no interest in this game, but it was really fun to listen to both sides of the argument.

[@Downloaded7]

“My biggest problem was the dice.” - actually Tom Vasel in 2018

[@VaultBoy13]

I'm with Sam on this one. It's a great, light-weight game that plays in under 60 minutes. Tom's issue with not being able to take advantage of suns is pretty uncommon. The player before you can only push 2 dice of of 12 dice off the board and that's for 2 different actions. Everyone needs to be rolling bad (for awhile) to create a situation where no where on the board gives you the strong (double-sun) action. Given there's a 55% chance of rolling at least one sun, there's a pretty good chance of suns being mixed in the different actions when it's your turn.

[@TeeHomer]

Without Zee :(

[@richardsaunders9214]

I find that I tend to agree more with Tom than Sam, but I like hearing both sides!

[@Ducky2317]

The way the game plays is the reason why I was a backer (Deluxe Version)! Such a fun quick game for me and my friends!! This is a review I was waiting to see from Dice Tower!! Thanks guys for it and Thank You to Breaking Games!!

[@matttinnell2912]

I think Sam defended this game well. Lol, it seemed like every negative thing Tom said Sam had a good rebuttal for.

[@notmyeyeballgames7798]

I love this game..... It is beautiful and easy to tech.

[@patcon314]

Doubles come up (statistically) 1/3 of the time. Events don't come out if there are already two events available. If you don't get a good roll, you can still decide which action to take to minimize your hurt and set up hurt for your opponent.

[@dfens1987]

I just ordered this game, and the review helped me decide to get it.

[@shady610]

I agree with sam. It was a solid game that was quick to teach and play. It felt tight because it was quick. I feel like the hobby is missing games that can scratch the civ and area control itch, in a light weight manner.

[@braderson4774]

This game is amazing!!!! I think the situation with the person in front with the dice, its all part of strategy IMO! so may strategic options and ways to play, which makes ability to replay many times.. I am blown away tom doesn't like this game, be he also has played a heck lot more than I ever have! great review!

[@Rock7MAN]

I think this and Starship Samurai are my favorite games of the year so far

[@biznesstime83]

I've only played it 2 player so far, but I loved it. And as to the dce, no one touched on the events that come up or trigger when the dice come up as doubles. I will admit that I have the deluxe edition with the wooden meeples which to me is a big plus over the punchout resources I'm tempted to record a "Tom is Wrong" video to send in regards, but for now I'll leave that sentiment for this comment.

[@samanrahemi2199]

I haven't played this game and my comment is solely based on the overview. Now…I have a feeling that Tom's problem with the previous player not rolling any suns is not what's happened in his plays of the game, maybe only once or twice, and as Sam said it shouldn't be as problematic as Tom thinks it can be. Here's why: In a 2 or 3 player game, it is absolutely impossible for one player to suffer from previous bad rolls AND for any other player to benefit from a good roll (in two consecutive turns). Say it's your turn and you can't benefit from a double sun action because either there are no suns in the dice set (for the action you want to take) or there is only one in the far right which is going to come out as you push one die in from the left. for other players to be able to benefit from a double sun, you have to enter a sun die (sun=* / no sun= 0). now the dice situation will be like this: * 0 0. The only scenario in which you're not going to be able to use a double sun is if no one rolls (or puts in) a sun die in that set while everyone used this action which means you're not the only one deprived of a double sun for that specific action in this turn. And even if you're not able to use a double sun in the following turn it will be due to your own bad roll! And even then this whole situation applies again (either no one benefits from a double sun or at least you will!) in a 4 player game though, there is a slight possibility for you to suffer from a bad roll simply because there are 4 players and only 3 dice in each set. Again, for you to not be able to use a double sun the dice set situation must be either 0 0 0 or 0 0 *. And you have to put in a sun die for other players to benefit from it. Assuming that the set would be like * 0 0 after you played, the only scenario in which someone could use a double sun this turn and you couldn't do so in your next turn too is if: 1- the player immediately next to you in turn order rolled a sun and put it in this set (so: * * 0) and 2- the other two players used this action without a sun (0 * * and then 0 0 *). This is a very rare situation and even exponentially rarer if it were to happen in multiple turns. So Sam is Right, this mechanism wouldn't affect a player in a bad way as much as Tom thinks it would.

[@noizeemama3697]

I would love for you to do videos on how you feel about these games now. Did they hold up? Did you end up liking them.

[@kv83]

I think the comment about the dice rolling by Tom is fair. I could see a version where there are two types of dies and you always roll two different dies, one with a higher chance of a good outcome and one with the current set of symbols.

[@scottduncan8775]

I usually like games Sam likes and this case is the same. But I agree it was nice to see divergent opinions and thoughts on a game.

[@patcon314]

Has they seen the deluxe components? They are awesome.

[@benlunches9062]

The dice tower usually requests or wants the retail version of games. That way they can provide a review that the standard game provides. But the deluxe components are B E A Utiful!

[@Feanimel]

Concerning the dice pushing mechanic being « gimmicky », I think it’s a great way to even out the luck across all players. Sure, it’s a bit frustrating having lots of moons on the board when rolling 2 suns, but in the end it’s not that disadvantageous. You can still pick any action you want/need to take, unlike some games that are dice-driven (War of the Ring, for example). Still, good point of views guys!

[@GamesOffTheShelf]

The collectors edition takes care of the resource problems. They are wooden pieces. Also I have won the game by taking the lesser of the actions by not rolling the double suns. You can use the bow for attacking and the walls for defending when built that makes conflict interesting. This is a good game.

[@marcelp.7907]

Is the deluxe Version available retail? If it is not, the point is quite significant. As Tom always said, he wont review Deluxe KS Exclusive parts. Because this review isnt meant to satisfy the crowd that bought the game through kickstarter but to inform potential buyers who cant get the KS exklusives.

[@VaultBoy13]

It's available at retail: breakinggames.com/collections/check-out-our-hottest-new-games/products/rise-of-tribes-deluxe-upgrade

[@VaultBoy13]

There were no KS exclusive components or gameplay for the campaign.

[@theblart4196]

Yes the deluxe components are available in retail and the best part is that the deluxe components box fits in a slot inside the main box!!!

[@melvinj.124]

i think zee would love this game because it kinda looks and plays like DEUS

[@d.aardent9382]

I read the thumbnail in my recomnd list as "Rise of Thebes" on the box. Lol. Weird it took me a minute til I saw the word correctly once I began watching.

[@CapriciousIntent]

I'm pretty care bear in games and I really enjoyed playing this game (admittedly, I only played once). I seized control of a small portion of the board, built armies as large as possible, and just exploited those areas like crazy. Maybe it was just the placement of our armies, but I had almost no interaction, which is great for my gaming style. (Meanwhile, two of the other players were laying waste to each other every other turn.) But omg, that downtime killed me. I assumed it was just the players, but it might actually be part of the game.

[@greginfla_1]

Love the pro and con debate

[@-Tristan-]

Looks really good this game. Is it good for two players?

[@queerchameleon]

This is a great game. I have to agree with Sam on this one. Would really have liked to hear Zee’s take on it.

[@SonoftheMustardTiger]

What is Jason up too. I haven't heard much about him lately...miss him

[@F4R207]

I understand your issues with it Tom, the "sorry you got a diminished action" while some one else can keep getting good action feels that it's setting up the play experience for disappointment, and I think you're on to a good idea with everyone picking a sun and a moon (though there has to be some random element along with it or everyone will stick to the same cue, unless you pushed the entire cue of all the actions and you could interject your die or something like that). Maybe also use the dice in the tribal conflicts as well?

[@samuelvimes7686]

I nearly missed this KS but my future wive told me about it. Glad that I've backed it

[@astrophe-cat]

Did you decide to marry her because of it? ;-)

[@samuelvimes7686]

No, but because of her enabling I've rebounded and started to backing loads of games on Kickstarter again since then ;-)

[@astrophe-cat]

There goes the college funds :-)

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Just tried it really wasn't a fan. The dice governed my chances of winning. I had turns where I could do nothing but lesser actions and it hurts you so bad. Going first gives you no advantage so I actively want to be last player. And we had a runaway leader who you can't catch. Big dud for me. Oh and the Dananu special powers are HORRIBLE! I'm with Tom on this.

[@craftecowgirl]

Who made your gaming table?

[@TheMrE]

I dislike the “all players remove tribe members” conflict resolution in this game. Doesn’t sound fun at all. On top of that, as Tom points out, the dice rolling seems more frustrating than fun also, which is a problem here because that’s the gimmick of the game. It feels like there’s room for a more satisfying set of dice placement rules but these ones don’t cut it for me.

[@jimlariviere1764]

I think this is another case of "Tom is wrong" and Sam is right! Received my copy of the game last week and played 5 games already with all player counts, 4 of which ended up with a really tight score! This game is great and the action selection based on dice results add a layer of depth as you can roll Moons and still perform good actions while setting up sub-optimal moves for your opponents. The dice are not a gimmick, but a tactical element of the game that constantly forces you to re-adapt your strategy. On the positive, I really enjoy the simplicity of the game, the nice artwork and the small extra modules increasing replayability value. On the negative, the Village strategy feels a little slow and the deck could use some more cards interacting with the Villages. Overall: great game that I recommend! Beware, the game is cutthroat though.

[@queparkerqp]

@ Jim Lariviere.. How is the player count with 2?

[@jimlariviere1764]

A 2-player game is very different: much more tactical as you can strongly influence your opponent's actions with proper dice placement. The game is not only about doing Sun-Sun moves, but also checking what your opponent needs and impairing his plans. The majority objectives are much harder to complete compared to a 4-player game as there are only 3 tiles for each type of terrain, which makes some clan skills like "Exogamy" extremely powerful. In addition, if one player takes the lead, there is no 3rd player to serve as a counterweight. While 3- and 4-player games are relatively similar, a 2-player game is a totally different experience, which is still quite pleasant in its own way!

[@Sajatzsiraf]

Sam is in your face!

[@Arctic_Cat423]

Just kinda deduced what care bear means...opposite of take that?

[@MrSelkies]

People who prefer not to attack or interact directly with others during the game.

[@todddonaldson885]

Sam looks like he lost some weight.. way to look good dude!!!

[@victorgonzalez2927]

#RiseofTribesGOTY I really like the game and the deluxe version is awesome! I believe they will expand on this game in the future.

[@sirjonsnow]

For the issue Tom cited, has anyone tried just not rolling the dice? I can see two ways to do this: 1 - on your turn you get your choice of symbols on the dice (moon/sun/blank) but they can't match. 2 - on your turn you can choose your two actions and then you can either take one at the low value and one at the high OR take both with the middle value. To account for Events you could agree to draw and reveal a new one every X turns.

[@GKnight786]

I think the dice rolling is fine as it is. People (Tom included) are missing the point of rolling the die. I like the randomness and force-to-adapt situations from non-optimum rolls. Bad rolls can be somewhat strategically passed on. Option 1 will not work since no one would ever choose a moon. Option 2 makes rolling kind of pointless, which makes using the die pointless.

[@theblart4196]

And yet, not one mention of how the game smells of delicious smoked bacon when you open it.... for shame

[@BreakingGamesVideo]

To be fair, they didn't have the deluxe, bacon edition.

[@theblart4196]

@@BreakingGamesVideo I heard that was a special edition for us Canadians :D

[@victorgonzalez2927]

I love the smell of laser cut meeples!

[@rogerx1258]

I can never understand why Tom likes or dislikes luck in certain games. What I can tell though is that he rarely focuses on the strategic part of games and how to manage that part. The only game that I can remember him being big on that is Ticket to Ride which is very very luck dependent and you really have to work hard, and know the game well, to have any meaningful strategies. On the other hand he goes cray cray for some games that have wild and swingy mechanics in them that they maybe shouldn´t have... IDK It seems to me he played it once, had bad luck with the dice of the person bevore him and was deprived of the "thrill" of an optimal action. Therefore he decided he doesn´t like it.

[@cfosburg]

Tom, respectfully I strongly disagree with you, on pretty much every aspect of your critic. It’s almost like we played different games. To me, this is like settlers with some grit. There are 4 options for you to choose, concerning the dice. Most of the time you should shoot for a basic action, not the suns. I took the most advantage of suns on the board, and my daughter still beat me. I see this getting a lot of plays with my family, right there with Grimm Forest. Easy to learn, teach, comprehend. The game doesn’t take very long. Both my kids really enjoyed this game. It was interesting to see my son, who pretty much had 1 or 2 tribes the whole game, keep up with my daughter and I. My daughter had a card strategy and I had a village strategy. Fun game, would love to see this on retailers shelves (Walmart, Target). This is not supposed be a combat game, more of an equalizer, and a way to cut someone down. The secret is to not attack and build large tribes, just large enough tribes to win. I see the tribes as more of a deterrent, like the Mechs in Scythe. Did you play with the Tribe Leader’s powers? You always talk about how Santorini shines with the powers (not base play of the game), you should have tried that out before making a judgement- adds a little variety. Note: Most games are tactical, very few are strategic. Chris

[@TorIverWilhelmsen]

Indeed: If what the person before you did does not affect you, then you are playing a multiplayer solitaire game. So complaining about interactivity via what dice you use where and predictable combat results seems more like complaining that the game is not carebear enough... Tom, have you turned into Richard Ham in disguise? :)

[@cfosburg]

Mikolaj Witkowski sorry, I should have clarified, I took the most advantage of the suns on the board. I had the most abundant actions throughout the game, and most of the time it was on the ‘Gather’ action. My daughter, on the other hand got mostly basic and took advantage of ‘Lead’. 😄

[@TheDarktater]

I was hoping this would be the Catan killer but it seems a bit too mean for that. I hardly ever play Settlers any more as the dice rolls make or break every game.

[@cfosburg]

TheDarktater it’s easier to play than Catan

[@Hynch]

Have you tried Concordia? It's Catan without dice rolling.

[@MrDaveydtd]

There will never be a Catan killer.

[@TheDarktater]

Huh, now you have me interested. I have always avoided it due to the atrocious box art. Watching a game play video it definitely seems like it might fit the bill. Thanks!

[@LookAtTheBacon]

Catan is garbage. A luckfest, resource gathering and trading. This game is tactic-based, the dice have strategic usage and the mechanisms are mainly dice placement, area control, variable player powers and deterministic combat. The resource part is very small and there is no trading. Tl;dr: Stop comparing everything to Catan just because it has hex tiles. Gosh.

[@MrSelkies]

As someone who loves this game, this review from Tom hurts! I have counterpoints for everything he brought up - it seems like he played this game once with some rules messed up, didn't think about it at all, and sat down for this video. Especially can't get over that he called the game so mean! Almost everyone I play with is what Tom calls a "carebear", we don't like mean games at all and I've played this 7 times - in none of the games did anything feel mean. Sometimes you gotta go after someone who's about to win, but that's it!

[@GamesOffTheShelf]

MrSelkies Agreed

[@mgk2020]

To many, that's enough to be mean.

[@thedicetower]

Maybe it's possible that since everyone you play is a "carebear", that's why the games aren't mean?

[@KissellMissile]

Every single review that Tom doesn't like someone makes a comment that he must have only played it once with some rules wrong and didn't think about it at all.

[@MrSelkies]

I'm not just assuming - he gets rules wrong and shows that he has a shallow understanding of the mechanics in the video itself. He called the dice pushing mechanic a gimmick because if you can roll no suns all game but still win, why is that mechanic in there? The mechanic isn't there for you to roll suns, it's there for you to use what you're given and make the best decisions based on what you need and what you have available to you at the time. The person who uses the mechanic the best will win - whether it's someone who rolled double suns all game or double moons all game. Growing when you should be gathering, leading when you should be moving... these are all decisions you make within the space of the game. I mean watch the video - the amount of times Tom says something, Sam clarifies it, and Tom goes "Well, yeah..." is just too much for a review. I'm grateful for all that Tom does and how much content he puts out. Just had to voice my opinion on a game I've played and taught to almost 15 people and had everyone love.

[@patrickolmstead1557]

Count me as 1 of the 6 who won’t like it. 1hr 45 minute slog after the rules. Conflict essentially negates a full turn (e.g., grow people, move people). The last turn, I actively coached another player so she would win and end the game, because I was aghast that someone else was trying to extend it. I would rather go to the dentist than play again.

[@eladzigler2579]

That's just mean! (For dentists ;))

[@TheDiceMatrix]

Tom, listen to Sam's most valuable point: "... they are focusing Less on what action they're doing rather than the power of the action they are doing." I've heard Tom's vapid argument many times murmured from the lips of unresourceful gamers who expect everything to be dropped into their laps. Mitigate, sir! I think what hurts game reviewers sometimes is their expectation of what they want that game to be or how it should be played, based upon what THEY want to do. For instance you can combatively pursue your opponents in Scythe because that's what you want to do. Unfortunately you will most likely not win Scythe if you do so.

[@TorIverWilhelmsen]

Unless you are the faction that can place multiple combat stars, of course.

[@dot818]

Huh ... it looks like a less deep Inis to me. And since I'm happy with Inis, I think I'm gonna pass.

[@hardbathsalts3143]

dot818 is innis decently playable at 3?

[@dot818]

Easily! I personally wouldn't recommend it with 2 players, but at 3 or 4 it's great. There is even an expansion announced which adds a 5th player.

[@hardbathsalts3143]

dot818 heck yea, thanks for the tips. My friends arent into games AT ALL (think im not showing them the right games maybe) so anytime there are five people over at my house there is always at least one that doesn't want to play. Three or four players are the very most I can ever get to the table. I would give almost anything to try kemet at five. Lol

[@VinegarAndSaltedFries]

Totally and completely with Tom on this one... Not a very good game,although beautiful and interesting in tribes. But still awfully average possibly slightly below. Am interested to see in Two years how many of the people in these comments realize this after the deluxe Kickstarter hype dies and individuals really start to dissect the mechanics and play. It took about 10 plays for me to start seeing all the flaws I had with rising sun( a game I still like, but rate about a 7 and a half because of all the bloat from backing) I don't even mind the high level interaction...the game just fell completely flat and overall not as much fun as I thought\hoped. Production isn't everything. I seriously wonder about how the state of a site like BGG will look with all these Kickstarter games getting so hyped and never truly be great or even good for that matter. Hope it averages out in the long run with people updating reviews on a consistent basis.

[@goyasolidar]

Pretty lackluster, all things considered. With the diverse wealth of better games out there, this is an easy pass.

[@lukassnakeman]

so far this just seems like catan with extra steps. boo