Michael Bay: Deep Or Dumb?

[@AresWasTaken]

I would argue in Transformers 2007, Megan Fox's character does a hell of a lot more, and is generally presented to be more competent, than Shia Lebeouf's character.

[@Turok1134]

There's also the computer hacker character who ends up being the one who actually discovers the Air Force One hack. Also, in Bad Boys 2, Marcus' sister is a DEA agent and holds her own throughout the film. And in 6 Underground, the two women on the team tended to be more competent and level-headed than most of the guys.

[@onemouthymerc]

She would've been a way better main character in a movie about sentient car-shaped robot aliens.

[@nope5657]

No but she's hot and the film knows it so therefore BAD.

[@nope5657]

@@NathanVdubs That's such a bad faith fucking take. Holy shit. Nothing in the film and how Fox's character is presented is "coy" in that way. You just protect that onto the film due to your bias.

[@KZ-xt4hl]

​@@nope5657you either do not understand what objectification means or you are wilfully ignoring a very basic concept because you prefer your personal eye candy over the well being of an entire gender

[@iyona2305]

I watched Ambulance without knowing Bay directed it and when I saw “DIRECTED BY MICHAEL BAY” at the end it made so much sense. The explosions, the super warm color grading, and the excessive shots of exotic cars. The message was as barebones as “man can’t afford medical bills, so man robs bank” that we’ve seen in media plenty of times. I still enjoyed the movie for the action and the acting wasn’t bad but this video perfectly encapsulates what I realized during the end credits of Ambulance.

[@bundieF]

Was it good?

[@bundieF]

@Ben Solo I watched it the other day. It wasn't bad but it was VERY predictable

[@ChineduOpara]

This premise is uniquely dUSA. Most other developed countries have some form of socialized healthcare. Even "s#!thole countries" like Ghana, Rwanda, and Cuba 😂😂

[@daneg]

I haven't seen it BECAUSE it's a Bay movie, but it looked like one of the least Bay-ish movies by the previews. I actually liked the Bad Boys movies...as buddy cop movies. But even Brett Ratner couldn't screw up a buddy cop movie. I'm certainly not opposed to over the top, absurd action fare. Anyway...I wanted to chime in that The Island, while derivative, is probably the least Michael Bay-ish movie he's ever made. Will be interesting to compare with Ambulance.

[@kingoflebanon1986]

@@ChineduOpara yes and those suck balls

[@ayanabeads1614]

The first 20 minutes of the first Transformers movie is basically a US Air Force recruitment video, and I say that as a USAF vet.

[@alastorcorvus]

Same with Captain Marvel

[@Bolts_Films]

the films themselves are pretty obviously dumb and I dont think any Bay fan would disagree, and I do thoroughly believe Micheal Bay is also completely unaware of the aspects of political ideology in his films, but they are definitely worth examining with consideration of their context and dozens of other things that really have nothing to do with the movie, but provide a good lense through which to observe the spread of American Hegemony.

[@NovaGN]

Best take

[@captainkiwi77]

Any film that uses that much army surplus equipment has received DoD funding and is constrained in the ways they talk about the military, the scripts have to be approved. Bay is fully aware how political his work is when he has to send it in for the propaganda check

[@avppr3451]

The filmento guy here on youtube loves the older Michael Bay and hates its new movies

[@rockinRrr]

And to say they’re smart bc they’re dumb is a stretch

[@NissanSkyline901]

@@captainkiwi77 I was just about to bring this up, as it is especially relevant to Michael Bay films since almost all of his movies use said surplus equipment and are so US military/police heavy. With how much he uses them, there is almost no way that he could be unaware of the political ideology and propaganda in his films.

[@MrBonified66]

I think the exchange "But wouldn't it be easier to train astronauts to be drillers?" - "Shut the fuck up Ben" answers this one.

[@moorjammin]

They weren’t training to be astronauts, they were training them to just ride in the rocket

[@emoryogglethorp8180]

To be fair a properly run oil drilling platform of any kind of depends on a lot of technical skill and a tremendous amount of hard science

[@kendallmoore4826]

Also teeing off of a Greenpeace protest is just a great scene.

[@rahulgunwal3097]

the answer was in the movie drilling is art not everyone can put the same amount of pressure on different stone layers that's why they went for the best and there a few scenes in the movie that shows the skills of the team its like you can't be tiger woods 'golf' in a month or even your entire life.So I Michael don't want to lecture ben so he said the best thing to him.

[@gojiplusone]

Technically speaking, I'm very curious how Michael Bay designs the explosion in his movies. Like... I can't describe it clearly, but there seems to be elements of "sparks" when things explode. I don't think I've ever only seen it in his movies.

[@edbangor9163]

Zirconium in API (armor-piercing incendiary) ammunition throws sparks as a way to ignite the target. It's a real thing in military munitions.

[@reanetsemoleleki8219]

It's literally just fireworks. Like the kind used in New Years celebrations. Most filmmakers don't use those because they aren't considered realistic.

[@AlwaysSomeone]

I remember absolutely despising Bay and all he stood for when I was a teenager obsessed with deep messages Now that I’m older, calmer, and simpler, I can accept that mindless action blockbusters have their place in entertainment Not everything needs to be Schindler’s List

[@jeremyengleman]

Sure, but not everything has to be getting bashed in the head with a bag of doorknobs for 3 hours either.

[@AlwaysSomeone]

@@jeremyengleman Sure, that's why we have both. We can have Schindler's List AND Transformers

[@LegendzPlushStudios]

They are all peak fiction

[@onyourleft5648]

Not to mention Michael Bay inspired Lindsey Ellis to pioneer the video essay genre on KZbin linking the old media to the new even as they are in complete contrast

[@realnowheregirl]

Whoa. She's great. You have a specific link for this one?

[@Robin-eq7uz]

@@realnowheregirl kzbin.info/aero/PLJGOq3JclTH8J73o2Z4VMaSYZDNG3xeZ7

[@onyourleft5648]

Back when channel awesome was a thing in 2008 she was ‘Nostalgia Chick’ and she left around 2014 as she wanted to make more long form stuff which is when she started the Michael bay transformer stuff. Although she definitely did not invent it solo and in isolation (a video essay is after all just a meandering spoken essay with stylized performance). She is definitely one of the earliest people doing video essays on KZbin as far as I can tell (tho many would argue the genre did not solidify until a few years later as phenomenons such as breadtube happened)

[@TheOneTrueAnthemis]

RIP Lindsey's channel. The only Good KZbinr.

[@MRCKify]

Does Bay work that much in hand with editors or just force their hands with the shots he hand in? This action comedy essay comes to mind: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGKzdKd_lrKSfbM

[@Rapscallion2871]

I miss Michael Bay's warm color grading in blockbusters it's neat to watch.

[@sam-y7e]

me too

[@methos1999]

Michael Bay movies are indeed a vibe. Like so many other things my enjoyment of them depends on my mood. Sometimes I'm in the mood for mindless action, sometimes I'm not. Some have mentioned Lindsay Ellis as having a great series around the Transformers movies, I would also recommend Patrick Willems.

[@PoIarisPrime]

I’m genuinely sad at how you fail to see the greatness of these stories

[@onemouthymerc]

I loved Lindsay's analysis and will def have to check out Patrick's now.

[@fergardla]

I always saw bay movies as expensive propaganda that its overly appreciated, it's never about what it really going on or how far fetch it seem the main character can always overcome the problem and deliver red withe and blue justices

[@realnowheregirl]

*overrated (there I fify)

[@TheDSasterX]

Ooh rah military industrial complex ads for 2 hours that you'll pay to watch... smh (also luxury fetishism)

[@SniperDog5]

Overly appreciated? Transformers movies always get shit on. I have yet to meet in real life a Transformers fan who like the movies.

[@KZ-xt4hl]

​@@SniperDog5his movies being in public discourse at all is over appreciation of him and his movies

[@SuperCozzmic]

Deep or dumb doesn’t necessarily matter for his films, most of the time. They’re like fireworks! Just fun and loud, they don’t necessarily need to be anything else.

[@notarealperson1481]

The lack of cohesive meaning and purpose of Bay's cinematic decisions kind of make his work post-structuralist. Maybe he's as deep as a large casm of pure nothing. His films are just mindless meaningless piles of aesthetic images incoherently strung together, almost to a possibly meta-ironic satirical level. Bay's movies can spark a deep conversation about modern American aesthetic ideals, but he himself seems to lack the self awareness of where his films are placed in the political landscape. But perhaps theres beauty in chasing the aesthetic for the sake of the aesthetic in of itself. Maybe there's a beauty to the naivety of the rollercoaster ride like sublime experience his movies are chasing

[@amandagiovini4109]

Personally I SAW A MOVIE OF HIS ONCE AND THE MOMENT I EXIT OUT THE TEATRE I WAS LIKE “SORRY,WHAT WAS THE MOVIE ABOUT?”

[@Mecharnie_Dobbs]

4:18 "The people pouring money in [to filmmaking] have certain ideological expectations" but they arn't going to be watching the films, they just want a financial return on their investments.

[@WolfoftheAurora]

17:41 Go for both. Just because something was meant to be "mindless entertainment" does not exclude it from having its details analyzed.

[@jasonblalock4429]

Moreover, anything as widely-seen as popular as Bay's movies SHOULD be analyzed, to better understand their impact.

[@RodFoka]

06:09 - these observations about objetifications were SO INTELLIGENT that made Theodor Adorno smile!

[@pytle]

I feel like this man's goal was to make me love the old animated cartoon more than anything else possible

[@dippy_1999]

Personally, I love Micheal Bay’s movies. They really balance out with some of the more deep films (The Northman, anyone?).

[@Osiris064]

Wisecrack: Michael Bay, deep or dumb? Me: dumb but entertaining Michael Bay: money!

[@novustalks7525]

His movies up until transformers the last knight and ambulance have all been pretty good in what they set out to do and what their purpose is. Though his style sometimes clashes with the demands of the narratives

[@ArkCiD_Z3r0]

To Bay's "movies are supposed to be fun", I would argue that there's a difference between fun and stimulating. Michael Bay's movies are far more "stimulating" than "fun". He's the visual equivalent of a drug maker.

[@mi39471]

@azaabazha ArkCID is right -- Bay films are pure sugar.

[@noah_pedersen]

Yeah I agree. I haven't seen all his movies but I never really understood the whole "dumb fun" appeal of his movies bc to me they're not really that fun. Like most of the transformer movies are just boring. The whole point is their action but the actions so forgettable. I'm not "feeling" any of it. If I wanted to watch an action film I'd watch John Wick lol.

[@_thebigsteve]

Analyzing his films is genuinely worth it. While Bay himself may not even seem to fully grasp his ideology he has confessed he is a very political person and his technical achievements much to the chagrin of media wonks continue to push the technical boundaries out of the box and make interesting experiments in turning the blockbuster into strange experiments of sorts. Not all succeed or fail, but I truly think that to not try to understand the impact of his film making on the industry is to miss a genuine landmark in film making that helps bridge the gap to questions like "why is our collective attention span decreasing," "if cinema is dying, what comes next," and "Do consumers understand a visceral truth that the educated class in its orthodoxy are unable to process attached to an outdated status quo?" People may be quick to dismiss him but to understand American cinema for better or worse includes his contributions.

[@Original_Syn]

Michael Bay’s Directing style is like salt a bit sprinkled on top of your food improves the dish but just a big bowl of salt by itself is completely unappetizing

[@OmarBhoo]

I love Bay movies. They may not be deep but he has a gift with making a gorgeous movie.

[@iyhuyu7]

I don’t like any of the Transformers movies but I really do like “The Island” though with Ewan McGregor and Scarlett Johansson. He’s like Quentin Tarantino; Bay with his excess action sequences and Tarantino with his excess violence sequences.

[@ciarandolan7695]

Don't know how involved he was in Black Sails, but it could get pretty deep. I know he was a producer on that series, but that's all I know about his involvement.

[@daneg]

I desperately want to (wise)crack a joke about how deep the water has to be for Black Sails to get pretty deep, but I ultimately decided it was too shallow of me to pursue. 😜

[@ciarandolan7695]

If they can tell us a superhero movie is deep, they can tell us how a historical piece meant to be a prequel to a classic novel is. Did you watch the entire series or are you just shit posting which if you are, you're not unique.

[@TheKillingJoke123]

His most overlooked and profound work is absolutely Pain & Gain, shit is a masterpiece

[@akhilnair1137]

He literally turned a legit tragedy into a comedy.

[@UncleHyena]

Honestly, I’m so surprised to hear somebody have this take. I thought the film was incredibly tasteless and lacked humanity

[@UncleHyena]

@@akhilnair1137 fr

[@TheKillingJoke123]

@@UncleHyena that’s how I felt the first time I watched it, but I recently watched it again after watching the Transformers series and idk brodie I see some real meaning in it, it’s like his Wolf of Wallstreet ya know but that’s just me

[@UncleHyena]

@@TheKillingJoke123 Idk guess I’m happy you got a better experience out of it for me, I don’t think you could convince me of that but that’s ok

[@Leo99929]

It's the sound levels that cause issues for me with Bay's movies: the dialogue is a whisper when the action is at a non filling rattling level. It's not possible to both not get hearing damage AND hear what they're saying. I ain't got time for that. Then there's not being able to make sense of what's going on in the action scenes. What's the point. It's like Peppa Pig or Bob The Builder, but for adults: vapid and nonsensical.

[@grapeshot]

I don't know but I know he often times cast black characters as if they are some nineteenth-century racial stereotype.

[@Spongebrain97]

I remember years ago scrolling through my tv channels and stopping on Transformers 2 which I hadn't seen before and immediately cringed when I saw those two short autobots talking and acting like black stereotypes from the 1930s

[@danielland3767]

@@Spongebrain97 honestly the twins didn't offend me at all.. When Optimus said "we learned your language through the World Wide Web". Basically each Autobot took the appropriate seen personality that they have on Cybertron, soooo if we don't want to see that representation then we stop doing it

[@Peecamarke]

Couldn’t agree more, be making black people like movies did in the 90s (Looking at YOU Tyrese, Bumble Bee..) smh 🙄🤦‍♀️

[@TheDSasterX]

@@danielland3767 Then where were the droves of latin, indian, and chinese transformers? Are all transformers explicitly parallelized with Americans for some arbitrary reason or what? Also, if they're 19th century/1930's black stereotypes how are they relevant to the rest of the modern transformers and who exactly is still pushing this representation a century or two later?

[@92HazelMocha]

@@TheDSasterX that's actually hilarious when you think about it; most humans are Asian so their mannerisms should be a mix of Indian and Chinese and they should be wildly confused when interacting with Americans.

[@tokiomutex4148]

I found this video more entertaining than all Michael Bay films I have seen.

[@mekman4]

You know, (finally) acknowledging Michael Bay’s work as art, opens the flood gates for all manner of (cool and fun) expression. You’re a Maverick. And in the same vein, like Tom Cruise said in the Maverick trailer, _”you think up there, and you’re dead.”_ I couldn’t agree more… Great Stuff.

[@CamSiv996]

That last part about the entertainment. I got bored from liking Michael Bay films a long time ago, so I think it's way better to analyze the his work than to be brain dead, feel, or act like his movies are "legendary." It's like a Love at first sight, an illusion of love the person you've just met. His movies were like that to me, specifically Transformers films. When reality comes, it's something more than just like. It's something to like and dislike with the scale of good and bad. Watch the movie, rewatching out of curiosity or interest, see how many ups and downs the film gets, and let the truth out. It's easy to point out someone's work of art or ideals. Edit: didn't meant to put "or"

[@danielzapata9600]

Michael Bay is honestly one of my favorite filmmakers ever, I grew up with Transformers movies and I still love them, even when I aknowledge all their filth and excess, in fact, that makes them even better cause they're never boring. We really don't appreciate how complete his filmography is: when I need to cheer up, I watch Armageddon, when I wanna make fun of the American Dream, I watch Pain & Gain, when I wanna see the government failing, I watch 13 Hours, when I wanna see a pure action thriller, I go with The Rock. He really is the whole package and has provided us with endless entertainment for the ages. One thing's for sure: the more the world turns upside down the more sense Bay's movies make.

[@press_pause2236]

We need this with Roland Emerich please.

[@danrono9725]

There's no need man just wants to blow up the world in increasingly creative ways

[@danrono9725]

There's no need man just wants to blow up the world in increasingly creative ways

[@kloakovalimonada]

Wow, I wouldn't expect Kristin Thompson and Immanuel Kant in a mainstream KZbin essay. This is a very well-written work.

[@alastorcorvus]

If it's unexpected, maybe you're watching the wrong essayists most of the time

[@daneg]

they cite Kant pretty often.

[@BlakeTheDrake]

"Micheal Bay movies are the opiate of the People" - Karl Marx, probably, if he'd ever seen one

[@hamishcampbell3337]

You guys HAVE to do Under The Silver Lake!!!

[@thomaskuzma4360]

I appreciate what Michael Bay has done for the transformers franchise, in bringing it back to the world. It disappoints me that when people think of transformers, they think of Bay's capitalist money grabbing advertisement with a lack of substance, chosing to treat the titular species as a bland killing machines instead of three dimensional aliens

[@phantomkrieger2744]

To be fair, the orignal series had stuff like the episode where they had a Libya parody Carbombya where the decepticons stole Fort Knox and the Eiffel Tower and (protected the country from western imperialism) for a dictator in exchange for oil.

[@alexschott2092]

@@phantomkrieger2744 Welcome to Carbombya City! Population: 4,000 People 10,000 Camels

[@daneg]

the backstory for each transformer on the toy packaging literally had more plot to them than any of Bay's movies. which is to say, more back story than the original 1980s series as well, but still...those movies were really difficult to watch, both as a human being and as a kid from the 1980s who loved transformers.

[@robertliggett3870]

I love how the ad placement was right in the middle of taking about American pride at around 5:20. My ad ended up being dominoes lol

[@jerrellmackall4653]

I met him years ago during the the filming of the first Transformers. He is a nice person the brief time I talked to him. He a big kid that loves smashing action figures together.

[@lexman7179]

I quite like some of the stuff he did earlier on in his career, the Rock and Armageddon are watchable. But, I just find his stuff gets boring as time goes on. Transformers and Pearl Harbour are just boring, yeah the special effects are great but that's not enough for nearly three hour movie.

[@daneg]

hmm. I thought Armageddon was pretty terrible. but as a general rule, I do think his earlier movies were less...calcified? not as bombastic? iunno. I enjoyed The Rock and Bad Boys. The Island was decent. Even Bad Boys 2. I haven't been able to stomach most of the other stuff.

[@warriorscholar41]

To quote from ERB's Steven Spielberg vs Alfred Hitchcock, "If I've learned one thing, it's that this game is about m----- f---in money. I make that dollar y'all. Even made Mark Wahlberg make some m------ f---in money."

[@kendallmoore4826]

Takes his checks to the bank indeed.

[@kaobunn]

It's really funny how much I love the Transformers movies despite the fact I know they are kinda... problematic movies Dark of the Moon is definitely my favorite of the TF saga tho, it slaps

[@daneg]

really? I thought Bay's TF movies got appreciably dumber with each sequel. although they did put more fighting robots on the screen. The lack of actual fighting robots screen time in the first movie (as opposed to hot girls and annoying shia shouting "go! go!") was an improvement.

[@cvm6854]

The only movie I’ve ever fallen asleep to in a theatre was the dinosaur transformers movie. Went with a group of friends and at least half were also sleep. Never watched another after that. I loved them when I was like an 8th grader though.

[@riverofpower5659]

Shit, same here! I couldn’t believe that somehow a movie about giant robots fighting robot dinosaurs could be so ridiculously boring! Like how is that possible? Then I watched some video essays about it years later and finally understood.

[@Gornemant]

Calling a Michael Bay movie as deep as a tea spoon is a highly exaggerated overstatement.

[@sammyfreeman8494]

"Transformers scented Axe. It makes you smell like a Michal Bay movie." "Oh, loud and confusing."

[@UncleHyena]

Right off the bat, I’m gonna say ‘Dumb’ but you have my attention Wisecrack

[@kaneaquino8295]

Next: Zach Snyder. Deep or Dumb

[@LuvzToLol21]

There's a scene in the 4th movie when the big bad evil guy reveals his master plan: with the help of the Decepticons, he's learned to harness this smart metal made of nanobots which can be effortlessly reformed into whatever he wants. You'd expect him to demonstrate by reshaping the metal into, maybe, a piece of hospital equipment, or body armor, or a gun. Instead he creates a Beats by Dre speaker. If you don't see any problem with this scene (which is supposed to be a huge story reveal), then we need to talk.

[@jasonblalock4429]

What gets me about Bay is the level of his success. There are plenty of other "big dumb" action movie directors who are doing basically the same schtick (Zack Snyder and Roland Emmerich, for example) yet they rarely find half as much financial success as Bay. Does he know something they all don't? Or are his films popular *because* they don't have messaging? I sometimes think that's the difference. Perhaps Bay's studied lack of any overt subtext or messaging gains him a wider audience, hence the higher profits. And looking at Snyder and Emmerich, they're both more overtly ideological, but come off as being on opposite sides of the spectrum. Snyder's authoritarian/objectivist tendencies rub liberals the wrong way, while conservatives don't want to see movies about global warming. So that cuts their potential audiences in half right there. For better or worse, Bay's vapidity is pretty much universal.

[@kingcobra2858]

Say what you will, Bay just works. His work is not my fav and probably not the best modern cinema has to offer but it just works or atleast to his regular audience.

[@benstarbuck2425]

I think both sides could be right, and wrong, at the same time. Critics these days, in my opinion, don't hold much weight when it comes to recommending a movie or telling us a movie is supposed to be bad or good. Some of the biggest movies of our entire generation were considered to be bad movies by the critics of their day. Star Wars: The empire strikes back, was considered a "bad" movie by critics when it first came out. Like Michael Bay himself says, the purpose of movies is to tell us a good story, make money, and maybe leave us feeling some emotions of some variety. Personally, I base it on the versatility of the director to make any kind of movie, from comedy to tragedy to action, whether or not he's a good movie maker. So, yes, he does make some good movies and heck, some movies are great for a movie night and to just enjoy with friends, family, and the kids. Not to mention that sometimes, watching things blow up is just fun. Don't believe me? Then go watch a couple of Mythbusters episodes or even just go watch a fireworks show. As the simpsons once said: "celebrate the independance of your country by blowing up a very tiny chunk of it". However, Michael Bay just seems to rehash a very tired formula to all of his movies. Namely, Base it around something vaguely patriotically American, add a helping of positive military support, throw in some explosions, jokes or silliness, make sure to include hot cars and beautiful women, and then write your story from there. Actors, sets, plots, product placements and even special effects are secondary in some of his movies. You could easily replace some actors with anyone and still have the same movie. I'm pretty certain that if you cut the man, he would bleed red, white, and blue. It's so excessively American and pro-military, that I wouldn't be surprised if he had some subtle monetary support from the military or government for some of them. So while he does have a distinctive style to his movies, I do think though that sometimes, he could cut back on it a bit in some movies, which would make them better in some ways. He could become an even greater director if he just challenged himself to go without his tried and true tropes that are his style of directing and see what he makes. One can only watch so many explosions and hear so many pro-military messages before they want something better. My verdict is that he does make some good entertaining films, he just doesn't try to leave any last messages to his movies. He is not excessively deep to the point of leaving the audience scratching their heads and leaving them wondering what they just watched. He knows what the audience wants, and is very good at making it. Are they good films? sure. But they're about as deep as a puddle.

[@JCUDOS]

Your videos need a "Sources and further readings:" followed by a link to something like a google doc. It won't clutter the description and it will raise the quality of content in my opinion. I try to support information outlets that provide sources. :)

[@edumazieri]

I agree with you but in this particular video, and most of wisecrack ones, they kind of mention their sources by name quite clearly whenever they quote anything, it's fairly easy to dig deeper if you want because they spell it out, not sure if it needs actual links in this case. Oh, and why a google doc? Not sure why a reference to a google doc would make sense.

[@JCUDOS]

@@edumazieri Doesn't have to be a google doc, it's just the method employed by Kurzgesagt and they are among the best sources on KZbin to my knowledge. Digging out their sources is quite easy but we shouldn't have to do it. I believe well documented, easy to access sources automatically raises content quality. Scientific sources all have to do it to maximise the chances of accuracy and to make it harder to say whatever you want because the fact is most people don't check sources. I trust any source more when its sources are organized, public and as easy to access as possible, even a source that names all its sources like Wisecrack. I'd love to see philosophers do the same as scientists but I won't stop following if they don't. :)

[@MinecraftRealm713]

No entertainment is without meaning. The creation of work can always be warped by others.

[@aaz0104]

I just feel funny that Michael Bay, the most successful America-freedom-chest-thumping director, made the most China sycophantic movie - Transformers 4. His first directorial doctrine for box office return is publicly on exhibit in this case.

[@qtar1984]

Interestingly enough Bay played a parody fratboy character in Mystery Men. It's as though he were making fun of the very sort of mentality that his own movies would reflect.

[@aquilux-vids]

I'd like to see a discussion of the impulse (and the contributors to it) for mindless experience, and the impact that may have on our personal morals due to being flooded with imagery while in a non-critical state.

[@macher001]

I like his movies (from time to time). Not because of good stories or mindblowing characters or some deeper meaning. It's just fun to watch, simple. When you just want to turn off your brain and enjoy the visuals and yes, over-the-top action :)

[@FoxMacLeod2501]

@5:43 I see what you did there... "... Bay leaves..." Very funny.

[@litterbox2010]

I don't think he sucks, like so many people like to claim. His movies obviously succeed in the way he wants them to. I just personally do not enjoy his work, and that's fine. I doubt he'd even be insulted by that. Not everything is for everyone. I can acknowledge that someone is very talented at a thing that I personally don't enjoy. Just becomes you don't like something does not mean it sucks and just because you do like something does not mean it's amazing.

[@guillermogonzales8294]

Not one mention of Pain & Gain which is an encapsulation of attempting to achieve the American dream through any means possible, a missed opportunity but still a good video

[@rdp16rulez]

I hate that I had to scroll this far down to get a comment about the movie I feel is objectively Michael Bay's best movie. Yes, the Bad Boys movies are great, but Pain and Gain is everything this video mentions, but somehow elevated. The movie is about the American Dream, but it's twisted by the main characters and their greed. The three male leads are constantly objectified the same way Megan Fox was in the Transformers series. He films the seedy warehouses and crappy apartments with the same level of care as he does the beautiful mansions and sports cars. Both Rebel Wilson and the European girlfriend character have lots of agency, nearly the same amount as the men. Most importantly, although the audience is supposed to like and root for the three main leads, the movie is not shy about how absolutely idiotic they were and why they were caught. Wisecrack should really do a deep dive into this film as a follow up video to this video.

[@MichaelDodge27]

5:05 Hawk sound effect? Where's the awkward seagull sound of our majestic Bald eagle?

[@jlupus8804]

Michael Bay is DEEP in his approach to writing DUMB fun

[@pesky716]

An honest conversation about Michael Bay can’t take place without discussing The Rock. Not only his best film from an action standpoint, but also with actually great acting and a plot that was about something. It was the opus of his career, and should have been included in the discussion.

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

It's unlike anything he's made for decades so it's not really that useful a point of reference. You can trace the influences but given he has damn near total free reign to do whatever he wants and has not chosen to do this, it's fair to not really worry about it in proposing his current style.

[@chilliinsanity6898]

Honestly the thing I hate the most is the over the top use of bright sun shots, glare and intentional lens flare.. so ridiculous.

[@geogeo7230]

Wisecrack sucks without Jerrad and Jerrad sucks without wisecrack.

[@Gantaipao]

I used to watch Transformer just for Big Robot fighting each other that's all. Especially, my childhood cartoon memories into big screen.

[@msmilesftw]

The track playing throughout this video is hilariously Bay 😄😄😄😄 🥁💥🎸🔥🎸🎸🔥🎸🥁💥🎸🔥🥁

[@pblaze100]

Every Frame a Painting has a great breakdown of "Bayhem", or Michael Bay's visual style.

[@screwballprotagonist4381]

Bad Boys 2 is so dumb that it's deep.

[@Xaa25]

Why don’t montion : No Pain No Gain, a full conscience movie of what Bay style and « philosphie » is

[@gamer6654]

Bay's movies are eye candy and I love them

[@joecamps1119]

I’d love to see Bay tackle something genuinely out of his wheelhouse. Like imagine a Michael Bay period drama lmao imagine Portrait of a Lady on Fire but with Bayhem 😂 No no lemme not put that evil out into the universe.

[@silverstarlightproductions1292]

He kinda already did that with Pearl Harbor.

[@liamnehren1054]

Southpark made a joke about that in the imagination land trilogy of episodes.

[@OfAngelsAndAnarchist]

Why, though…? You don’t go to McDonald’s for sushi

[@Latinkon]

A part of me wanted Bay to direct the West Side Story remake given that the 1961 movie is supposedly one of his favorites.

[@justaguy9625]

If it weren't for Directors like Bay, I wouldn't ever go to the cinema.

[@teenkitsune]

I'm not gonna lie, I am inspired by Bay's action sequences and would love to incorporate such stylistic action into my work, but simultaneously I'm all for thoughtful storytelling beyond just entertainment. How would I incorporate stylish action sequences without undoing any of the thoughtful parts I'm also interested in? In other words how do I create synergy between both style and substance without one cannibalizing the other?

[@agrophile2095]

Study the MCU. For that matter, MCU and DCEU are striving for that same blend, I would say.

[@teenkitsune]

@@agrophile2095 The comics this franchise is based on have been doing that since the early 20th century.

[@KW-vy1rf]

If anyone finds this video thought-provoking, I definitely recommend Lindsay Ellis's analysis of the Transformers films and Patrick Willems two part series on why Michael Bay is an American auteur.

[@marvellousib7710]

DEEP!!! Michael Bay is deep. Period.😤

[@karloz2722]

I see it this way, Michael Bay is a very smart director and businessman who does dumb movies, because he understands the market and the audience and because that's what he likes doing. Now, for the record, making a dumb movie doesn't have to mean he thinks the audience is dumb, just like it was pointed out in the video, he sees that as entertainment and entertainment can be dumb, like watching "fails" compilations and someone doing something dumb that you can't believe they could come up with that; so Michael Bay in a way is like the person making the compilation because he knows people will watch it. In conclusion, Michael Bay's movies are smartly made dumb movies.

[@gnvtwhp1218]

I didn't go into watching Top Gun Maverick and told myself to TURN OFF MY BRAIN. The last michael Bay movie I watched was that transformers 3 movie I think, the one that had all of the michael bay's signatures and tropes ON STERIOD. - American Flag. Slow motion. Fast motion. Waving motion. - Women's underwear up the stairs - women's underwear stepping out if cars - American geek (sam) screaming - AMERICAN CARS - Nascar. Why. How. I'm not in bay's head how transformers used Nascar cars as their disguise. - Triple the product placement - American garbage trucks. Of course the decepticons gets trash vehicles as their disguise. All decepticons got TRASH vehicles while the cool autobots got all the primary bright color vehicles - Optimus Prime murdering his mentor sentinel by shooting his mentor in the head - American army. I don't think one American soldier died in that movie. That jet blew up. Who cares. No AMERICAN PILOT WAS IN THERE. - the characters name is OPTIMUS aka being optimistic BUT NO, OPTIMUS IN THE 3RD TRANSFORMERS MOVIE IS A MURDERER at the end of the movie. - because Michael Bay's OPTIMUS prime is an AMERICAN republican gun loving American tough TEXAS big rig truck 🤣🤣🤣 - for some reason, Megatron has a SHOTGUN. An advance technology alien race 90 billion light-years from earth and Megatron has a SHOTGUN, OPTIMUS used to kill murder blow Sentinel's head off

[@batbite_]

We ought to consider the connection between Bay and Dragon Ball Z: You cannot analyse or comprehend what is happening in the fight scenes, it's just pure excitation. This is very different from a Bruce Lee movie.

[@agrophile2095]

Pre-endgame MCU shows so much influence of Michael Bay's action, more so on Iron Man. Russo brothers should be covered next.

[@JadedJassy21]

Do they need to be deeper? We have other directors for that

[@psyberdelicxp6042]

Bay is a trained professional.i 100% believe he is trolling on such an epic and meta level, and giving so few fucks, that he will do it as long as it's profitable and tolerated.

[@Alice_Haukea]

I have extremely mixed feelings on Bay's movies. I ultimately want to say his films are "bad", but that isn't quite true. Nor is it that simple to judge I suppose. I'm mostly only familiar with his Transformer films, and I will 100% say those films are bad from a writing perspective. The 1st one was cool, it was fresh, it was exciting. But as the others came out, there was just too much objectifying and product placement and cheap cringe jokes. Then it got really bad when the films started retconing each other. The Fast and the Furious franchise is infinitely better than what Michael Bay does in my opinion. You watch both for the same reasons; to be entertained. But at least the Fast franchise has more consistent messages and tones. The action sequences are just as incredible as giant robots fighting it out, but its also easier to keep track of whats going on. Perhaps you're right, perhaps Bay's films capture American desires and consumerism ETC, but I find it kinda cringe to boil down human- no, male desire to the point of objectifying women as merely eye candy. The forced product placement is super obvious, to the point that its there as a commercial, rather than a reasonable background detail. Bay's Transformer franchise is the cinematic embodiment of "Murica! F-yeah!", but not in the good ways. Maybe his other films are better, but Transformers was a total mess. Too much going on, too much "eye candy", too much extra noise. Hot take; I'd even consider "Battleship" infinitely better than Transformers. And that movie has issues of its own i'm well aware.

[@PuffPuff903]

Great comment, though idk how you think Battleship is better than Transformers

[@Alice_Haukea]

@@PuffPuff903 Again, I realize Battleship has its problems, but I have a huge interest in naval ships and so the movie was just really cool for me. I suppose the more correct statement should have been; "I enjoyed battleship more than transformers".

[@PoIarisPrime]

Nah Transformers infinite negative difs fast and furious in every way possible.

[@barendnaude4950]

Why not both? We can enjoy AND analyse his movies, after all that is what we just did (I say we because you analysed them and I enjoyed both your video and the snippets of his movies 😜). Thanks for all the great content.

[@raiderlove5923]

I thought Michael Bay's movies were cool and I enjoyed going to see what his latest film at the time is. Then came the first Transformers movie in 2007 he filmed. Honestly, I did like it and thought it was cool. Then came "Revenge of the Fallen" in 2009. I couldn't make sense of it. Then, in my opinion, each sequel that followed got progressively worse.

[@Fenglang1]

The Transformers sequels are very much designed to cater to an international audience (China specifically). Personally, I think that helps a lot in understanding the increasing style of "substance" approach.

[@JordnD]

He does action scenes very well I'll give him that, his camera work is also pretty good. The dialog, plot and characters are usually pretty basic tho.

[@steamtasticvagabond474]

Michael bays films are dumb, but everyone loves a good explosion

[@trevorwilliams6362]

Wisecrack giving Bay a pseudo-deep stamp is a prime example of the current state of the channel. The hell is going on here? It's deep or dumb, right? This is dumb.

[@anthonyiandoli1111]

Always enjoyed 90% of Michael Bay movies. Can't wait to watch and or buy the next movie he makes. One of the best directors out nowadays in my eyes. If people don't like the movies he has made that is fine. I love most.

[@ilikenothingtoo]

Best thing he ever directed was the Aaron Burr Milk commercial. It told a story and was visually interesting. It's been down hill since.

[@FoxFireNaruto]

Him coming from advertising basically explains everything about him as a director. Like case solved as far as I'm concerned.

[@Loremastrful]

A little disappointing. I thought you might tackle his co-opting of other directors' scenes as a rudimentary syntax. Like in Last Knight, how he stops everything to do a Suicide Squad riff. Or Revenge of the Fallen swings back and forth between an Indiana Jones scavenger hunt and a conspiracy nuts wet dream. How often Bay often cribs whatever he saw last night to shoehorn in what he's working on. He's counting on you seeing those movies for the stuff he's lifted to mean something. Like how The Rock only works if you've seen Die Hard, Under Siege and the contemporary Tom Clancy films, but on its own its a mess. You can often find his imitations from the longer takes and lack of lens flare or golden hour shots.

[@WikiSorcerer]

I'm surprised he hasn't tried making a Ghostbusters movie. It's a nostalgic 80's property with toys, a cartoon a lot of Gen-Xers grew up on and is Right-leaning politically (Libertarians specifically).

[@Fenglang1]

Please elaborate on how the IP is in itself poltically right-leaning?

[@WikiSorcerer]

@@Fenglang1 The Ghostbusters are a group of intelligent, middle class men who are outed by elitist college academia for their non-conforming area of science and decide to take out a loan and start their own business in Reagan-era New York. While they hunt ghosts and other supernatural phenomena (who are _foreign_ entities) and lock them away like frontier militia, the closest they have to consistent enemies are government officials - an EPA officer who rightly lambast them for using unlicensed nuclear equipment in the middle of a crowded city, a mayor who only helps them if it helps him personally (and because a Christian official tells him to) , and a judge who takes time out of a court proceeding just to verbally abuse them after they unlawfully impersonated a construction crew to dig into the street - and well as a fruity, vaguely-European Art Museum owner. Not to mention that Gozer, the thing that’s supposedly being that would end the end of civilization as we know it, is a campy, gender nonconforming individual who looks like it belongs on Drag Race. Don’t get me wrong, I _like_ Ghostbusters. It’s just something I can’t help but notice.

[@EvripidouM]

Not all movies need to be deep. Sometimes we need A "dump" pop corn movie

[@ethanarnold4441]

I think that Michael Bay's films are for people who just want a mindless, adrenaline-packed joy-ride full of explosions. I also think that Michael Bay himself is ugly.

[@ruffshots]

This breakdown of Bay's appeal to the macho American psyche pairs well with the recent 3 part Behind the Bastards (look it up if you don't know) with Robert Evans, talking about.... John Wayne.

[@MRCKify]

Surprised there's little reference to Every Frame's a Painting's classic dissection of Bayhem: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aIWrh6mpndukZrM. Half-summary: Bay has the bombastic style that means the same technique is used for both plotheavy and light dialogue, action scenes either add new layers to objects, explosions, or exploding objects, and the lavish playsets can clash spectacularly with any more down-to-earth message.

[@amandagiovini4109]

Most of the time we spend so much time insulting “mediocre” female directors that make ROM COMS and so little insulting man directors that make THEME PARKS OVERALL,I insult mechael bay (as a director) mostly as a revenge for how MALE CODED movies are considered superior to FAMELE CODED movies

[@senseihEnRY16]

If there is ever gonna be a movie based on GTA V or the Modern Warfare trilogy, Bay would be perfect to direct it.