Michael Jackson Thriller MoFi 1Step: Is it from the Original Master Tapes? I Have Some Questions

[@StuntrockConfusion]

Ok, so yes, I do press records myself, and deal with all the supply chain, apart from the recording and mixing. After that I deal with a multitude of situations, which actually means a multitude of lacks of knowledge. But one thing is for sure, when a client orders a one step stamper, he has to cross his fingers that nothing unfortunate happens during production, as we’ll then all need to go back to the cutting phase. Are there ways to optimize the numbers of lacquers you can simultaneously create in one session, ie running the tape/file/source? Sure, but those are very complicated processes, that also generate their own issues, potentially Sonic ones. Outside of that, the one rule is that when a stamper is produced for a one step process, the lacquer is destroyed in the process. And even in the multi step processes. If one believes they are losing audio quality through stamper cloning, we’ll , yes, it is possible, but I believe that the original one step process has simply been retooled into a hype word, quite remote from the realties of its purpose. I must admit that through my knowledge and practice of the craft, I’ve encountered lots of misconceptions in the audiophile world, many beliefs placed in the repetition of buzz e we it’s thrown by authority figures. For me, music is the ultimate judge, as I don’t care about great sounding records, if I don’t find the music relevant. That might be different discussion, but I often find connections between the two, as so many technical words are used to make the process sound more esoteric than it actually is, and thus creating “myths”, if we are to remain polite.

[@NickP333]

Thanks for the fantastic information, Stunty. Also, the content and the music comes first for me as well, and a great sounding record is just an added bonus.

[@rudolphguarnacci197]

Man, you hit the nail on the head. I can listen to an original, psychedelic Capitol 45rpm and enjoy I Want to Hold Your Hand on a Close-n-Play and enjoy it as much as anything else. Don't be polite.

[@deadquietvinyl]

Fully agree with Stunty here. Especially because we are music lovers first and then we appreciate the respect given to an album by its cover and mastering. BUT 😅 we have two problems here: 1. The Crypto-anything people who keeps telling we need financial education and invest in what gives us a financial stability and growth (that is the main reason people are hunting good vinyl nowadays - to make money!) 2. We still have the room problem. For US guys is not big of a deal, but in EU people adapted in such ways to live in all sorts of small places (again, because others keep speculating everything). For me that’s the main reason I look for the better version, therefore there pricy pressing (less artificially hyped becuase many of them are notorious enough as being very good ones) As for Michael’s thoughts, yes, this AAA in such high numbers maybe a sign. But how have they done it in the past? They were selling more than 40k of a record. There was no digital to question the source… 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@StuntrockConfusion]

@Charles Vonderheid yes : you look at the way some companies will describe a technical edge or innovation to their product, ie the record, when that one they hype as their own has become the industry standard, or worse, can’t be proven to create an actual advantage.

[@JardinagemOrg]

"I don’t care about great sounding records, if I don’t find the music relevant" And I agree with you, but the other way around is just sad. Since I'm one with an awful experience with the Miles Davis UHQR, I also can agree from experience - I did ordered this one thought. In the other side of the Atlantic they're experts in hype - but we must be fair, they also have stunning releases. Regarding everything else, I like to hear different opinions and I like to learn with more than one person. Reputation is important too and difficult to achieve in this crowded world. You don't know everything, not so long ago you thought deep groove was the dept of the grooves and you went in a rant regarding 140g vs 180g and what you call all the audiophille bullshit - I could say myths, but I guess I'm not as polite as you :) .

[@dconsmack]

If they’re selling a digital product as all-analogue, then they should be sued. It’s fraudulent, and they charged a premium for something that wasn’t true. It’s NOT about the best possible sound quality, it’s about the best ANALOGUE can do. MoFi got super greedy. They should be punished for deceiving their customers.

[@benprice7666]

Nothing on Michael Jacksons Estate.They put out an album after he died called Michael and a few of the songs were not MJ singing!!

[@leonsam12]

Yeah, but the digital is from the original analogue tapes, so they are selling what they advertise, because yes, in a way, they are from analogue, everybody already saying it sounds better than OG anyway🤔🤔

[@chrisnyc3641]

They must be making a DSD copy of the master and then using that DSD master to source the 1-step over and over. I don't have a problem with that conceptually, but I agree that mofi should be transparent about it if they want the community to trust them.

[@Masticator93]

Hit the nail on the head with this one.

[@DrOz-007]

My recommendation, if you don't have a copy already, would be to buy a near mint 1982 original of Thriller. 10-20 euros /dollars/pounds should easily do it. Lots of copies around.

[@AimsWorld17]

I have to be honest, I put zero thought into buying Thriller in MoFi 1 Step. Within minutes of seeing the email announcing it, I simply bought it. Thriller is just one of those albums I can remember buying new as a teenager and I have the old school copy, bought a nice reissue later and now have bought the MoFi as well. Your words gave methought for sure. Normally I do put thought into what I purchase in particular when it is on the pricier side, but when it came to this particular record and what it represented in my teenage years, I just flat out trusted this company would stand by giving me the best product no question. Maybe I should have questioned it. These original masters are so special and I too don't have a clue in what it would do to a original master to be used repeatedly to do this type of release. I hope you do get the answers. I'm still excited to have this upcoming copy for many reasons, but what you just said gave me food for thought and I thank you for that.

[@jlo8775]

At this point how does anyone trust anything that MoFi has done? If I were an analog collector I’d avoid them completely.

[@fab208athome]

We will have to wait for 'the announcement' but my guess is the master tape was transferred to a digital disc then mastered for vinyl. If it sounds amazing and vinylish then fine - but the price should reflect that. I saw a documentary about Bohemian Rhapsody and Brian May explained that the master tape will never be run again - they transferred to a digital disc which holds everything as a multitrack as the tape would, but now they can use that instead. Makes perfect sense to me.

[@ghn5ue336]

One thing to consider is that the multi track tapes are the true master, and they are mixed down to 2 track as the final mix. This usually involved a tremendous amount of work by a number of people to make decisions and control levels and effects. In the time Thriller was recorded, the mixing consoles were becoming automated with computers, so a mix could be easily replicated over and over, which means there may be several 2 track master copies that are all still one generation away from the multitrack master tape. As well, most major studios had several 2 track mixdown recorders, and a mix could be fed to several machines simultaneously, again creating several first generation 2 track masters. The multi track masters do exist, but not sure if a console running the same automation software is still in existence to recreate the 2 track mixdown. If so, a new 2 track master could conceivably be made just for this release that mimics the original. If the same console, effects and procedure are used it would probably not be considered a 'remix'. Another thing to consider is how many times can a tape be played without significant degradation. On a well maintained professional tape deck, oxide loss and magnetic erasure would be very minimal with repeated plays. You have heard stories about Fleetwood Mac and Queen wearing out their 2 inch 24 track masters while doing tremendous amounts of overdubs, but 2 inch tape is much harder to handle and pull through a machine than quarter or half inch tape (which is used for 2 channel mixdowns), so mechanical handling of the tape would lead to more oxide loss and stretching. I have reference alignment tapes used to calibrate professional recorders, and after many years and countless plays, they measure about 1 db down at 20khz compared to a brand new tape. It is easy to compensate for this with some equalization, and of course all proper master tapes have alignment tones recorded on them so whatever machine they will be played back on can be properly adjusted for them.

[@rudolphguarnacci197]

I am suspicious of any Beatles remasters. I carefully read your professional treatise. Since their early years were mix downs to two track masters is there any point to remix? And what a "half-speed master?" What others are there?

[@Brian-qg8dg]

@@rudolphguarnacci197 The sound of my Beatles Mono box set records is beyond amazing!

[@emilspec1227]

There is no such thing as a multi-track master tape in sound engineering. You mix it down to two track and then you master a stereo tape to get a master tape.

[@SPAZZOID100]

Most reissues are not remixes, just remasters.

[@stevenburdick424]

You know the answer. There is no way you are getting what is promised.

[@pierreduchesne0001]

Touché! This video will age admirably well.

[@ericfshook]

Digital being the source for vinyl is way more common than you would believe.

[@nyquist5190]

To my knowledge that was often the case even before cds. Digital u-matic video tape copies of the analog master tapes were often used when cutting the lacquers - not to mention the digital delay lines in the cutters themselves.

[@duilawyr]

That had to occur. Compare cost of transporting the analogue tape master, to buying a (used) SACD on Amazon? I’ll sit home and wait for driver to deliver my “master”. The hilarity ensues when “music LOVERS” than buy these LPs swearing they sound better than digital, and I bust a gut laughing when audiophile play those LPs on their $10,000 turntable and record it to digital. Back to square one but with running noise added!! At a huge price! Oh oh, the king seems to be naked!

[@juliensullerot1111]

Just another thought : millions of Thriller records have been manufactured in the 80's, even before digital spreads into music business widely. Just imagine the number of ''tape production copies'' that were dubbed to achieved manufacturing this record all around the world ? Many in US, many in Europe, many in Asia... AMong those, there might be some available somewhere, it'is mostly a 'right issue'. Just think how ERC is cutting their jazz records, at the same period when for instance Craft or AP are cutting their release of the same records. They use different existing 'mastertapes'. You never know... but nevertheless, a clear explanation of the process from MOFI would be great to know about.

[@graemeking7336]

It took a while to get there.....

[@analoguecity3454]

Thriller was put on a 1/2 inch master at 30ips! Which should be more sturdy than a 1/4 tape! And don't forget about the "safety copies" , those sound amazing as well! You can cut from the "safety/ backup" and only use the original again to make another "saftey/backup"! I'm not sure, but I think that's how they do it (well, in the old days that's how they did it)!

[@SPAZZOID100]

Analog Safety copies are 2nd or 3rd generation. A DSD 256 transfer of the ORIGINAL master is the way to go.

[@jimbullington2862]

MOFI just needs to come out and let people know. They know about questions, but they keep dragging their feet. I asked them in an email about the source a while back, but they never responded...

[@davidkipperman5218]

If I understand what you are saying- I think you are confused on how the One-Step process works. From the master tape they make a lacquer (positive) and plate it (your metal work), then make a convert (negative), then press the finished records from that. The convert gets replaced every 1,000 copies. You don't go back to the master tape ever again.

[@andysmusicden]

Indeed. I’m afraid the video is based on a misunderstanding of the process.

[@andysmusicden]

Having read everything I could find about the process, I’m not so sure anymore that Michael has misunderstood the process. How is it possible to create additional converts without cutting new lacquers?

[@davidkipperman5218]

@@andysmusicden You have one lacquer that you plate, your metal work. You make 40 converts off of that laquer and you can now make your 40,000 copies only pressing the master 40 times and using the master tape once.

[@andysmusicden]

@@davidkipperman5218 do you have a source for this? I believe the lacquer is consumed after the creation of one convert.

[@nielsoe8970]

@@davidkipperman5218 but isn't the point of the One Step technic to skip the metal work?

[@haimsheffer5066]

I just have read in MOfi website that the source for one step Thriller is: 1/2" / 30 IPS analog master to DSD 256. That can explain the question about 40000 copies …

[@SPAZZOID100]

Love it!!!!

[@faithnolife]

I would love to know more about something you only briefly touched on in this video -- the idea of smaller batch records (300-500 copies) being cheaper to produce via the "One Step" process and possibly providing the same higher quality results as companies like Mofi advertise. I think that this could be a huge deal for smaller bands and labels who only press records in smaller quantities to begin with.

[@leeherbert1525]

Great video and serious questions. I look forward to seeing if mofi explains the true process.

[@DorianPaige00]

I think it's a compact disc and I think none would be the wiser. I have a single version of Michael's "Human Nature" with different instrumentation in the bridge. Nobody talks about the alternate mixes that Quincy issued as singles and then either replaced the original album version or the single mix has been turned to ether. "Rock with you", "Bad", "The way you make me feel", "Dirty Diana", "Smooth Criminal", "I just can't stop loving you", and the aforementioned "Human nature" have different mixes and many of them did appear on different incarnations of Michael's albums. I'd be more worried about getting what I heard back in the day and maybe some alternates as opposed to debating and worrying about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. We know Miles' "Kind of blue" master tapes are done. We know about the Universal Fire, Atlantic fire in the 70's when alternates burned up, and the salad dressing incident at Polygram east coast. How are all of your cassettes doing? To quote Michael, "this is it" and you should be thankful as I've seen a lot of what I like go into the ether.

[@grahaminkpen5436]

I think they have used the “original master recording” tape to produce a digital file and used the “one step” process from there. Or they have developed a robust stamper that can press more than a 1000 copies, my opinion is digital is involved and the wording of their trademark vinyl series being open to interpretation.

[@hifipi3.14]

This was great to watch already knowing the answer and seeing you sniff it out. Great instincts!

[@gordocooper9199]

Transparency is the problem, as Charles mentioned with CDs, who didn't look at the label on them to see if it was AAD, ADD or DDD ? The only MFSL album that we know for sure has a digital source is Brothers in Arms. Brothers In Arms, was conceived as a CD from the start and produced completely digitally (DDD). To demonstrate the longer running time of a CD, the CD version was about seven minutes longer than the LP released at the same time. So what do we want ? , the very best every sounding version regardless of the source or the album, the way the artists created it on the equipment of its time with all its idiosyncrasies. One step and 40,000 copies, not sure that I'd want my Master tape going through that torture. Paying 90 plus Euros for a Mofi ,I'd like to know how it was sourced mixed pressed etc. beforehand. Great channel Michael thanks

[@Viniland]

Brothers in Arms has an analogue step in the mixing process. Source: Miller, Greg. Sound and Perfection. New York, 2015

[@joetaylor7952]

Thanks so much for bringing up this important question. From MoFi's web-site: "First and foremost, we only utilize first generation original master recordings as source material for our releases." Intervention is very forthcoming about their sources, so is Analogue Productions. When Blue Note cut the 75th anniversary releases from digital, they told us.

[@thomaslytle5519]

I have a mint condition original pressing of Thriller. It sounds absolutely amazing. I don’t need this 1 Step cash grab release. There’s no way this Mofi could possibly be improved enough to justify spending a hundred bucks! There are more than enough mint originals floating around out there

[@austinhunt4260]

Yeah but, not everyone has one of those.

[@thomaslytle5519]

@@austinhunt4260 Yes Of course, Obviously! but they are still very Easy to find and a hell of alot cheaper than this Mofi. I didn’t think I’d have to explain that, or I would’ve said it. And! The originals are All Analog. Not everyone has Any records 😆

[@astrozoo]

Recently, I came across a 25 anniversary CD reissue of Thiller. Hearing it, could immediately tell it was re-mastered, because it did not sound as good as the original. The bass and drums were low and thin, the vocals were placed in front of the music, with overall too much high end. Sounded quite bad actually.

[@benprice7666]

@@astrozoo bad 25 was just as bad. No punn intended.haha Watch michael fremer talk about being an expert witness in the estate vs quincy Jones trial a few years ago 👍

[@SPAZZOID100]

@@astrozoo remastered yes. Not re-mixed.

[@micheled.4545]

Mofi should call it a DIGITAL ONE-STEP, now that just sounds better ! I think that was the original name but they omitted the digital.

[@mikepokorny2835]

The masters of Jackson or by any other artist are preserved DIGITALLY. I own a west-german first pressing of the record. I also have the 2009 reissue by Music on Vinyl. They both sound identical to my ear. If you convert the analog master to digital without any loss of detail (this is possible) I don't see a point of conflict here. It still is the master, now preserved.

[@toddhealy5548]

I had often wondered why Analogue Production's UQHRs didn't include one step pressings. They did everything else that was possible to make the best possible records. Now it makes sense. Of course Chad doesn't do one steps if you are forced to put digital in the chain to get more than 500-1000 copies.

[@SPAZZOID100]

I wish this one step was at 45 rpm on 2 discs.

[@angusvanhalen2886]

Analog Productions for the win!

[@AeroModule]

I agree that running the tape 40 more times seems excessive and unlikely. But they're not going to reveal the exact method. If they did, you might not buy it.

[@papabear1417]

transparency of the process is vital so the purchaser knows exactly what they are buying.

[@christi186]

Especially when it's over $100

[@rudolphguarnacci197]

Couldn't have said it any simpler or better.

[@janedoe6350]

It's bullshit. This means you need to cut a new lacquer from the master tape and silver plate it every time you want to make a new stamper. It's not the tape cycling that is the issue. There are only about 80 functioning lacquer cutting lathes on the planet. And even less cutting / mastering engineers. And there work is backed up with everyone who wants a reissue mastering.

[@metalcatz888]

Digital file, no way they can run master tape 50 to 60 times Too much wear and tear of the master.

[@booklover3959]

Michael Michael Michael....Don't you know it is a sin to ask question and be intelligent. 😒Soon they will be saying "Why do you take your music so seriously?" and "As long as it sounds good what is the difference?"

[@Michael45RPM]

Thats it!!! and i know this is coming.... and it makes me sick

[@tiborosz1825]

I got Thrillah on order. Planning on transfering the vinyl to a CD so I can listen to it on my sony discman.

[@EvanZamir]

Turns out your question was great timing. They use digital!

[@awrogers3013]

What I like is that you appear genuinely at having no other interest other than the truth. It comes through. Some people freak when you figure out something uncomfortable to their myth or game…bravo..great questions!!!

[@awrogers3013]

NO SHELL GAMES

[@TheOhamd]

Michael, du hast die Büchse der Pandora geöffnet. 😂

[@SynthpoploverbyJohnOrie]

The baking process can only be done once otherwise you have to make a new master of the multi track again. Then it seems more logical to me to use digital master.

[@Derfunkmeister]

I ordered it when it was announced however I would rather see Off The Wall released as a One Step.

[@OrganTheGrinder]

Oh Michael, what have done!? Lol. Very interesting to see where this all goes. Things are blowing up today!

[@specializedmastering4083]

I think you're right to ask this question. At those 40k quantities, I'd speculated the lacquers would be cut from a digital source. For the one-step process, many many stampers will be needed. I'd further speculate the mastering will be from the original tape and captured to the highest possible sample rate for production. Whether it sounds worse for it, hard to know? It'll probably be killer anyway.

[@EvanZamir]

You were right!

[@specializedmastering4083]

@@EvanZamir So it seems... Lol

[@richardfitzpatrick5748]

Have you got the abbey road half speed master of Tommy. Be interested to hear what you think of it…

[@austinhunt4260]

Transparency is always critical because it sets the market value we’re willing to pay for something special. It would be deceitful if there was a digital step. That said, if you do a blind test of anything and can’t tell the difference, then you’re just wrapped around an idea. I’m wrapped around that idea of AAA, too, and maybe I shouldn’t be. Maybe there’s digital method that rivals AAA? I think that was more or less Esposito’s suggestion with DDS. It’s definitely challenging some ironclad preconceived notions. Right? I mean if the best you ever heard Abraxas is MoFi’s digitized One Step, well that’s still the best you’ve ever heard Abraxas.

[@SPAZZOID100]

Even if they used an analog tape, it would not be the 1st generation master they’d be getting.

[@vladimirfrumin2960]

Michael, before you questioning publicly and create all thise controversy and confusion, you should ask privately leading people of the industry you know like Kevin Gray, Chad and the others, they should know the process well enough to explain, and then go publicly with this information, if not satisfy question it. At this point it looks like you have agenda against MoFi, first with covers and now this, there is bigger issues in industry than that, for example I routinely returning for exchanged about 15-20% of the records I receiving because of quality issues (clicking, skipping, dished, etc.). Obviously this particular issue is very important and need to be resolved but it's need to be approached ethically, logically using common scenes. After all MoFi is not the only company doing One Step, Impex and Craft, maybe more. Only believe in Logic, Common Scenes and Three Laws of Thermodynamics. NASA engineer and audiophile since 1997 with record collection over 5k. Best. V.

[@charlesgund4812]

‘Oooh what are you doing asking questions and trying to ruin everything’….it makes me laugh some of the responses on here 🤣

[@Andygoodvibes]

Thanks

[@rainbowheart2728]

When in doubt, get a dope-ass sounding US OG for around $25. Take advantage of that.

[@damiankirkwood7924]

i use to buy every copy of thriller i saw while digging for records, i had about at least a dozen and then i sold them to a friend, so now i have no copies and am looking forward to the new version

[@DJDanceClassic]

I think they just ised the regular thriller cd as the sourc!

[@sidvicious3129]

Michael, you have raised an outstanding point, no record company will let you destroy their master tape. Michael from the thengroove, who has a record store is flying out next week to Mofi to get this question answered because he raised this point on Friday and Mofi got back to him and told him to come on down and his questions will be answered. Thank you for being the first to raise the issue. I felt something was funny when I heard 40,000 copies myself.

[@lemmy8284]

Source: 1/2" / 30 IPS analog master to DSD 256

[@Michael45RPM]

not a big surprise :-)

[@fitzy155]

MASTERED FROM THE ORIGINAL ANALOG MASTER TAPES FOR SUPERIOR SOUND AND LIMITED TO 40,000 NUMBERED COPIES OK question, this is the blurb at the start of the Michael Jackson Thriller one step release. Does this mean it's all analogue or the can be a digital step be in there somewhere?

[@jazzydog5635]

Excellent video Michael - will it affect my possible purchases of MOFI One Step albums in the future? It might - depends on MOFI's response or non-response on this. I have bought the Eagles 'Desperado' One Step album. A bit pricey when you include shipping and import taxes to the UK but I see it as a 'grail' record and was happy to pay the price for it. There's no doubting the sound quality but what did I buy? I thought I had bought a 'cut from the original master tapes', One Step (as described - nothing less and importantly nothing more) vinyl record. But if, and it's only speculation at this stage, there is something more in the process, eg some previously unrevealed digital processing, it changes my view somewhat. It's not the digital part per se, I have a good collection of CDs and digital tracks on my laptop. Even though this album sounds great, it is possible I have been sold something that isn't exactly as described. Well that really matters with premium products and brands and it matters to me. I have ordered a Eagles One Step Hotel California album. I won't cancel the order and will be happy to get it. But in the future when I am considering going the extra mile, will I hesitate more than before? Yes I will.

[@leon9021]

And remember, wasnt there rumors that they would do a 45RPM version afterwards as well. So that means even more plays of the tape if that is the case and I doubt they would license the tape twice, probably just making all the lacquers now.

[@Big-J-8579]

Great questions and some great comments below. For me... I will let you all enjoy your Michael Jackson 1-steps, and I will save my money for good music.

[@Groover71]

😂😂 what an elitist ahole comment

[@dieselbrodeur]

Another KZbinr just posted that’s from DSD. Sony partly invented DSD for achieving of the analog masters. So it kind of makes sense that the master actually is a DSD file.

[@ktchoo1098]

if i am not mistaken, Bernie Grudman said he cut more than 100 lacquer on this album. Did Bernie use the same master tape to cut it ?

[@ceejaydeesoozaa]

from the interviews i have seen, yes he used the master tape to cut all those lacquers in the 80s

[@ChordataWax]

I can’t wait to buy the MoFo release of Thriller for $30 because that’s all it’s worth. LMFAO!

[@tomaso1]

Can mofi (or another record company) press multiple stampers in one time when they use the origional tape once?

[@matzeflamingos]

Thx Michael, that’s an audiophile question ❤. Maybe I did over read it in the many answers (AWESOME VC!!!) , but how often can you play a master tape till that point that this tape is „broken“??? In my opinion „Thriller“ is one the best sounding records of the 80s

[@miss80smoviesandmusic]

Very interesting. I have no insight to share. But was considering buying this for my daughter for Christmas. If you get any clarification on your queries please update us!

[@MrGIJuu]

Hi Beth. One steps are fantastic. This will be the definitive version of Thriller. You can take that to the bank. Get it while you can.

[@miss80smoviesandmusic]

@@MrGIJuu hey Daniel! Good to hear from you..thanks for chiming in.

[@DC-xx4kv]

Michael, what I’m curious about is this. Did you find the missing disc from your Paul Simon One Step? Seriously. I hope so. 😉

[@Michael45RPM]

YES!!!!!!!!

[@DC-xx4kv]

@@Michael45RPM excellent. When you mentioned it back in the day I couldn’t believe it. Nice.

[@christopherwillis964]

Thank you for asking the hard questions rather than publishing hackneyed "shoot out" videos which ultimately do nothing more than highlight the subjective opinion of one egocentric person. This takes nerve , integrity, and a deep love for vinyl. Thanks for watching out for the VC!

[@austinhunt4260]

So you’re not a fan of Esposito for whatever reason. Got it.

[@alanabentrod3963]

I have no doubt the other two mikes will chime in later this week.

[@miguelbarrio]

All releases have "safety copies" created from the final master. I don't think the one final master tape (if it even exists) is ever used. There are probably hundreds of safety copies of thriller.

[@miguelbarrio]

@SpamMullet Do you know FOR A FACT of records (important records) where the “true final master tape”, NOT a safety copy, was used to cut the lacquer? I would like to know.

[@BlueSky...]

This momentous video provides food for thought!! Many are now experiencing MoFi trauma, given how events have unfolded since this aired.

[@sjakovics]

The bigger issue could be that, if there is another step involved whether it be digital, a secondary tape source or whatever, MOFI has misled its consumer with the full gloss insert clearly indicating there IS NOT another step. That would be a huge class action suit relative to the size of their company. I can't imagine they would take that chance.

[@zackamania6534]

That’s not grounds for a class action lawsuit. Where did you go to law school?

[@emilspec1227]

One step proces only explains the process steps taken from the lacquer to stamper which is explained in detail all over MoFi website and on their packaging, it differs from the usual three step process that produces a mother that can be used to create more stampers. You are just misunderstanding what one step stands for.

[@sjakovics]

@@emilspec1227 thanks Capt. Obvious!

[@emilspec1227]

@@sjakovics well it was clear that you didn't quite get it and needed an explanation of what it is all about so you're welcome!

[@sjakovics]

@@zackamania6534 never said I did. You don't think this high gloss several page insert explicitly showing how your record is made is misleading when it doesn't include whatever the other step is? Pretty sure it visually shows Original Master Recording to Laquer to Stamper to Record. Oh yeah between that OMR and the Laquer there is this "Little Digital Box of Sorts". We didn't think that mattered to the consumer??? Lol I don't care a ton as I have only a couple One Steps but if I was a "completist" and had a shelf of them or a shelf of 2 each, I would be pretty pissed. The surprise everyone is experiencing is the mismarketing or "absence" of accurate marketing by MOFI. Sort of like the diesel Volkswagen class action suit several years ago. A diesel car with small emissions! Oh yeah! We forgot to tell you about this little digital step in the process where we adjust the computer chip to "show" less emissions. That was good for about a $12,000 refund check to each purchaser of the vehicle.

[@ergloo6660]

Looks like you were right, Looks like MOFI have been less than honest, Digital 1 steps!!! I thought they sounded bad on my system and to ears so I only ever bought 1 and returned to buying UK 1st pressings as to me they sounded better. Why would I buy from a manufacturer who is less than honest?

[@marklabee2545]

I've heard about the "Supersense Mastercut Editions" from Universal Music Group. I believe they have an all-analog cutting chain and six lathes so they can cut 6 lacquers simultaneously. Maybe MoFi does something similar for these large releases?

[@theheepster]

This would be a logical explanation for me

[@CatDadChris]

That would be my guess.

[@michaeltrochalakis6526]

Tim De Paravicini, who designed MoFi’s current mastering chain, one with a single cutting lathe, passed away a few years ago.

[@Dbriskit]

Yep, “slave lathes” would be my thinking.

[@michaeltrochalakis6526]

@@Dbriskit Mobile Fidelity does not have slave lathes. They have one heavily modified Neumann. It is wishful thinking to assume the master was played 60-80 times for all the lacquers needed with one lathe. And then repeat that for the 45rpm box set? They either used a tape copy or a high resolution digital file.

[@downtowndesign]

Hmm. Why not just ask MoFi how they do it? Speculating and putting theories out there leads to even more speculation and theories and won't bring any answers. I assume the most important information is written in the very first sentence: "Mastered from the original analog master tapes, pressed at ...". They master it from the master tapes. They put their secret sauce to the sound. This isn't happening while listening once to it. They run the tape several times till they agree that they mastered the MoFi sound. So running it 40 times doesn't sound much. If you treat the tape properly, degradation won't be audible between runs 1 and 100. But yes, of course, we all want tranpenracy. But do we get full transparency everywhere? For example, what about giving the author and source of the description text above credits and props? The text is used by so many people and nobody is giving credit to the source from which they copied it. It's all over the internet and everyone kinda pretends he wrote it by himself. This is the opposite of transparency. Just saying.

[@Groover71]

So much speculation and people just run with it.

[@johnloper5740]

Thank you michael for your dedication to our hobby i really appreciate your questions and helping all of us with trying to gather knowledge. I think Chad kassem and gary are also awesome and are very transparent! When we audiophile consumers purchase records at a premium price i dont think it is out of line at all to ask questions. THANK YOU MICHAEL KEEP UP THE GREAT VIDEOS MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@50jun]

Btw I can't wait for Mike from In_Groove's reply to this video 45rpm ...

[@uselessoldman7964]

Define what you mean by the original master tape? The process of creating an album takes three stages. Recording mixing mastering. What you call original master will not be the actual original analogue master tapes but just a copy, and knowing Mofi they also remaster before pressing. Anyone can buy a copy of those original analogue masters, there called reel 2 reel and can still be sources and I am sure there still made using 100% analogue recordings. BUt I bet they actually used digital copies of those original analogue masters. cos the originals will be past their sell by date.

[@theheepster]

Technically, I also have some question marks, but as the technical possibilities are today, many of us lack the knowledge. But maybe we get a quick answer from the "expert" Mike Esposito 😉

[@austinhunt4260]

Ludwig doing an Esposito on MoFi.

[@BlueSky...]

This video came out 3 days before Mike Esposito's video.

[@512bb]

In the end it all comes down to confidence. As you so rightly pointed out Michael, if Chad did it you could bet the farm on it. I've been buying Mofi's since the beginning & I'm never really sure what I will get with them, I doubt we'll ever really know the truth.

[@mmuzzwell3654]

I think you are missing what is meant by a master tape. In analogue broadcast they worked with source and master tapes. There were different types of Masters such as CH1/2 instr CH3/4 vocals. Often the word master just meant a copy of the final Dub/Mix. There would have been multiple masters knocking around, some for different markets. some for security, some for tape production, some for vinyl, even some for Radio outlets, some for editors to use for music videos etc... Most actual Masters and source tapes (some 2 inch) as you are referring too are locked away deep in a mountain somewhere like Blue Mountain. So for example EMI in the UK might have a 2nd generation master, Polydor in Germany might have the same 2nd generation copy, Japan etc. I also miss the story of Lacquers in your explanation.

[@awrogers3013]

Don’t be hesitant to tackle these tough issues.I am completely on your side. Don’t worry if someone else feels to make a fool of themselves in response. It’s a sign that you hit an uncomfortable truth nerve… Keep it up Michael……you’ve a great service to us all..thanks

[@rudolphguarnacci197]

That's the best comment i've read so far that doesn't deal with the technicality of the recording. There was alteady comments accusing Mike of not mentioning other companies and singling out mofi. I've watched enough videos to deduce he's not the type. As you point out he's asking the questions we all want the answers to. If he hurt someone's feelings ts.

[@InfectiousGroovePodcast]

I keep going back and forth on this pressing. I may buy it just to buy it, then just use it as my go-to copy.

[@Texacate]

I wondered this very thing. But it turns out the math wasn't so bad. Let's assume mofi can run 4 lacquer lathes in parallel off one pass of the orig-analog-master tape. Assume each lacquer can be used to make 5 copies of a "convert", (which are transformed into a stamper) and each stamper can make 500 vinyl pressings. 4x5x500=10,000 records per pass of the master tape. Only 4 passes of the original master tape would be enough for a 40K production run. Note: Nowhere does Mofi claim that a lacquer can only produce a single convert/stamper. But if it is true that making a "convert" destroys the lacquer, then I agree, what was just a handful of passes across the analog tape jumps up into the 20-50 ish range...

[@clumsiloe]

The electroplating to which the lacquer is subjected is a series of chemical baths and washes, followed by the plating itself. You can find videos of the process here on YT, but at the end of that process the lacquer is not destroyed exactly, but you really wouldn’t want to attempt to make another plate from it… especially not at this level… this is why the usual three step process exists because plating from the lacquer is a one-shot deal. And also why the one-step process costs a shed-load more to do.

[@audiophileman7047]

Since I've had bad experiences with them, I'm not a MoFi fan with the exception of older MoFi albums typically pressed in Japan with great QA/QC. It may be possible to produce a really excellent sounding digital recording. In the past the digital sampling rate for the sound curve was low. If you can sample more of the sound curve, you can produce a more faithful digital recording. I doubt it would surpass a quality all analogue pressing, but it could get close. This plus their digital manipulations of the audio spectrum may be why some recent MoFi albums sound so good. I'm open to being converted, but as of right now, I want all analogue vinyl records, and MoFi must be up front about how their vinyl is made. Unfortunately, it seems like MoFi is more interested in making money than producing true audiophile products. 👿

[@duringthemeanwhilst]

The original was, to my ear, one of the best sounding records ever. There's a Brian May interview somewhere where he spoke about how the Bohemian Rhapsody master tape was preserved. completely unrelated, I bought a new copy of Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds today. the physical records, booklet and gatefold are beautiful. I'll be listening tomorrow :-)

[@starlightgrecording559]

Gerard Stroh**** 45 RPM Audiophile**** Hi 45 RPM Audiophile I Know Alot About Analogue Tape and I know For A Fact that the Master Reel to Reel Tape and I Know that the Master tape Will not Hold up 4000 Copies and You Can Mess up the Master Tape and They Need to Have A Hype Sticker that tell How They Do the Process **** I think They Take or Make A Digital Master Copy of the Album**** MoFI needs to Tell The Truth of How They Do the Remastered Pocess*of the Album*** Bye From Gerard Stroh*****

[@costume5922]

Interesting. Thank you for the video.

[@patmeadows4759]

The truth is that MoFi will produce the 'stampers' from a DSD master. The same for Hotel California. There is realistically no other way with numbers 10k and 20k. (in todays economics) If you are 'duped' into paying for the OneStep premium then you have to live with that decision.

[@ernesttricarico6402]

Seems like you are right about mofi's use of possibly digital sources. I kinda had that suspicion but nothing to back it up

[@Jackgrahamphotograph]

So well said----I'm still wondering why my 1961 pressing of ART PEPPER PLUS 11 sounds a but better than the recent reissue. ( I have a great clean copy of the 1961 pressing). Any thoughts?-Thanks JG PS---I wonder if MOFI will number the copies--I doubt it!

[@JeffersonDD]

Probably because the tape was much fresher on your OG pressing and not whatever the recent remaster used. I'm just speculating though.

[@gootsy]

Well, not an expert here but I completely understand things as you do and you raise good questions. To me, it seemed perfectly clear that the one-step process produced small batches by design and you paid the price accordingly. But 40,000 units ? They have to clear that question.

[@mcintoshkid]

when i listen to the one step eagles desperado,i knew right away this has some how digital source, the trebles are to much to high,not to mention the bad pressing quality, I am done with mofi,they are only in for the money

[@ianfarber7966]

I've been wondering this as well since the announcement of Thriller. Is it possible they play the tape once and simultaneously cut 40+ lacquers? Granted that would need a lot of equipment and dealing with splitting the signal would be a challenge, but it doesn't seem impossible.

[@ianfarber7966]

@SpamMullet Not saying it's realistic, just a though on how it could be possible. The cutting lathes could be computer synchronized. Of course we know that's not what MoFi is doing.

[@Groucho3321]

You guys would rather to keep degrading original masters to create new stampers and keep the illusion that you can definitely hear the difference. You are out of touch with reality.

[@birsansilviu-lucian892]

I asked mofi when I placed my order and they told me that there’s no digitalization involved!

[@mikepapas9395]

EMI Records Australia pressed 28,000 records from one set of stampers while Festival Records in Australia pressed 27,000 copies from one set of stampers. Last year, Celebrate Records in Germany pressed 13,000 7” records from one set of stampers. For some reason, this is not possible today.

[@neilparnell2089]

You are correct about small electronic music runs of vinyl...but remember most electronic music...there is no tape....it's all digital till the metal plates are made

[@AM_9924]

Incredible album from the great Michael Jackson. Looking forward to hearing the unreleased tracks/demos on disc 2.

[@SPAZZOID100]

What disc?? The mofi is just the original album.

[@AM_9924]

@@SPAZZOID100 Yes but the Thriller 40th album will be 2 discs featuring unreleased tracks.

[@viridius]

The Thriller 40 CD will come with a second disc containing unreleased tracks. I’m not sure that’s true for the MoFi album. My impression was that it would only contain the original tracks.

[@AM_9924]

@@viridius Yes that’s correct. The Mofi will be the original album only.

[@leonhardtart7163]

To my mind one further question is: How CAN ca 40.000 copies can be made in the "ONE STEP" from the original (analog) tape? Did they produce all the needed "laquers" in a PARALLEL process un order to use the original tape ONLY ONE TIME? Or did they do it in another way? Or even it is NOT the ONE STEP manufacturing process? Did the process change since 2015(?) OR when did it change OR did it change at all and how?

[@gordocooper9199]

well its out there now Mikes interview with MFSL reveals 11k DSD copies of master tapes carry the Original Master Recording banner, only when they can't for sure say all the tracks are the original masters on an album do they use the MFSL banner on the album cover but still 11k DSD, they can do AAA but.... Mikes interview is long as the MFSL guys make hard work of answering his questions, nice work, but it is clear as mud for a premium price, at least my Brothers in Arms is all DDD anyway

[@socksumi]

MoFi digitized their library and cut vinyl from digital masters. Even pure analogue recordings have been digitized as they try to hide this from customers. But the edgy, cold sounds gives it away.