Michael Jackson Thriller MoFi 1Step: Is it from the Original Master Tapes? I Have Some Questions

[@StuntrockConfusion]

Ok, so yes, I do press records myself, and deal with all the supply chain, apart from the recording and mixing. After that I deal with a multitude of situations, which actually means a multitude of lacks of knowledge. But one thing is for sure, when a client orders a one step stamper, he has to cross his fingers that nothing unfortunate happens during production, as we’ll then all need to go back to the cutting phase. Are there ways to optimize the numbers of lacquers you can simultaneously create in one session, ie running the tape/file/source? Sure, but those are very complicated processes, that also generate their own issues, potentially Sonic ones. Outside of that, the one rule is that when a stamper is produced for a one step process, the lacquer is destroyed in the process. And even in the multi step processes. If one believes they are losing audio quality through stamper cloning, we’ll , yes, it is possible, but I believe that the original one step process has simply been retooled into a hype word, quite remote from the realties of its purpose. I must admit that through my knowledge and practice of the craft, I’ve encountered lots of misconceptions in the audiophile world, many beliefs placed in the repetition of buzz e we it’s thrown by authority figures. For me, music is the ultimate judge, as I don’t care about great sounding records, if I don’t find the music relevant. That might be different discussion, but I often find connections between the two, as so many technical words are used to make the process sound more esoteric than it actually is, and thus creating “myths”, if we are to remain polite.

[@NickP333]

Thanks for the fantastic information, Stunty. Also, the content and the music comes first for me as well, and a great sounding record is just an added bonus.

[@rudolphguarnacci197]

Man, you hit the nail on the head. I can listen to an original, psychedelic Capitol 45rpm and enjoy I Want to Hold Your Hand on a Close-n-Play and enjoy it as much as anything else. Don't be polite.

[@deadquietvinyl]

Fully agree with Stunty here. Especially because we are music lovers first and then we appreciate the respect given to an album by its cover and mastering. BUT 😅 we have two problems here: 1. The Crypto-anything people who keeps telling we need financial education and invest in what gives us a financial stability and growth (that is the main reason people are hunting good vinyl nowadays - to make money!) 2. We still have the room problem. For US guys is not big of a deal, but in EU people adapted in such ways to live in all sorts of small places (again, because others keep speculating everything). For me that’s the main reason I look for the better version, therefore there pricy pressing (less artificially hyped becuase many of them are notorious enough as being very good ones) As for Michael’s thoughts, yes, this AAA in such high numbers maybe a sign. But how have they done it in the past? They were selling more than 40k of a record. There was no digital to question the source… 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@StuntrockConfusion]

@Charles Vonderheid yes : you look at the way some companies will describe a technical edge or innovation to their product, ie the record, when that one they hype as their own has become the industry standard, or worse, can’t be proven to create an actual advantage.

[@JardinagemOrg]

"I don’t care about great sounding records, if I don’t find the music relevant" And I agree with you, but the other way around is just sad. Since I'm one with an awful experience with the Miles Davis UHQR, I also can agree from experience - I did ordered this one thought. In the other side of the Atlantic they're experts in hype - but we must be fair, they also have stunning releases. Regarding everything else, I like to hear different opinions and I like to learn with more than one person. Reputation is important too and difficult to achieve in this crowded world. You don't know everything, not so long ago you thought deep groove was the dept of the grooves and you went in a rant regarding 140g vs 180g and what you call all the audiophille bullshit - I could say myths, but I guess I'm not as polite as you :) .

[@DrOz-007]

My recommendation, if you don't have a copy already, would be to buy a near mint 1982 original of Thriller. 10-20 euros /dollars/pounds should easily do it. Lots of copies around.

[@chrisnyc3641]

They must be making a DSD copy of the master and then using that DSD master to source the 1-step over and over. I don't have a problem with that conceptually, but I agree that mofi should be transparent about it if they want the community to trust them.

[@Masticator93]

Hit the nail on the head with this one.

[@dconsmack]

If they’re selling a digital product as all-analogue, then they should be sued. It’s fraudulent, and they charged a premium for something that wasn’t true. It’s NOT about the best possible sound quality, it’s about the best ANALOGUE can do. MoFi got super greedy. They should be punished for deceiving their customers.

[@benprice7666]

Nothing on Michael Jacksons Estate.They put out an album after he died called Michael and a few of the songs were not MJ singing!!

[@leonsam12]

Yeah, but the digital is from the original analogue tapes, so they are selling what they advertise, because yes, in a way, they are from analogue, everybody already saying it sounds better than OG anyway🤔🤔

[@joetaylor7952]

Thanks so much for bringing up this important question. From MoFi's web-site: "First and foremost, we only utilize first generation original master recordings as source material for our releases." Intervention is very forthcoming about their sources, so is Analogue Productions. When Blue Note cut the 75th anniversary releases from digital, they told us.

[@pierreduchesne0001]

Touché! This video will age admirably well.

[@analoguecity3454]

Thriller was put on a 1/2 inch master at 30ips! Which should be more sturdy than a 1/4 tape! And don't forget about the "safety copies" , those sound amazing as well! You can cut from the "safety/ backup" and only use the original again to make another "saftey/backup"! I'm not sure, but I think that's how they do it (well, in the old days that's how they did it)!

[@SPAZZOID100]

Analog Safety copies are 2nd or 3rd generation. A DSD 256 transfer of the ORIGINAL master is the way to go.

[@haimsheffer5066]

I just have read in MOfi website that the source for one step Thriller is: 1/2" / 30 IPS analog master to DSD 256. That can explain the question about 40000 copies …

[@SPAZZOID100]

Love it!!!!

[@grahaminkpen5436]

I think they have used the “original master recording” tape to produce a digital file and used the “one step” process from there. Or they have developed a robust stamper that can press more than a 1000 copies, my opinion is digital is involved and the wording of their trademark vinyl series being open to interpretation.

[@awrogers3013]

What I like is that you appear genuinely at having no other interest other than the truth. It comes through. Some people freak when you figure out something uncomfortable to their myth or game…bravo..great questions!!!

[@awrogers3013]

NO SHELL GAMES

[@sidvicious3129]

Michael, you have raised an outstanding point, no record company will let you destroy their master tape. Michael from the thengroove, who has a record store is flying out next week to Mofi to get this question answered because he raised this point on Friday and Mofi got back to him and told him to come on down and his questions will be answered. Thank you for being the first to raise the issue. I felt something was funny when I heard 40,000 copies myself.

[@BlueSky...]

This momentous video provides food for thought!! Many are now experiencing MoFi trauma, given how events have unfolded since this aired.

[@papabear1417]

transparency of the process is vital so the purchaser knows exactly what they are buying.

[@christi186]

Especially when it's over $100

[@rudolphguarnacci197]

Couldn't have said it any simpler or better.

[@hifipi3.14]

This was great to watch already knowing the answer and seeing you sniff it out. Great instincts!

[@jimbullington2862]

MOFI just needs to come out and let people know. They know about questions, but they keep dragging their feet. I asked them in an email about the source a while back, but they never responded...

[@AimsWorld17]

I have to be honest, I put zero thought into buying Thriller in MoFi 1 Step. Within minutes of seeing the email announcing it, I simply bought it. Thriller is just one of those albums I can remember buying new as a teenager and I have the old school copy, bought a nice reissue later and now have bought the MoFi as well. Your words gave methought for sure. Normally I do put thought into what I purchase in particular when it is on the pricier side, but when it came to this particular record and what it represented in my teenage years, I just flat out trusted this company would stand by giving me the best product no question. Maybe I should have questioned it. These original masters are so special and I too don't have a clue in what it would do to a original master to be used repeatedly to do this type of release. I hope you do get the answers. I'm still excited to have this upcoming copy for many reasons, but what you just said gave me food for thought and I thank you for that.

[@toddhealy5548]

I had often wondered why Analogue Production's UQHRs didn't include one step pressings. They did everything else that was possible to make the best possible records. Now it makes sense. Of course Chad doesn't do one steps if you are forced to put digital in the chain to get more than 500-1000 copies.

[@specializedmastering4083]

I think you're right to ask this question. At those 40k quantities, I'd speculated the lacquers would be cut from a digital source. For the one-step process, many many stampers will be needed. I'd further speculate the mastering will be from the original tape and captured to the highest possible sample rate for production. Whether it sounds worse for it, hard to know? It'll probably be killer anyway.

[@EvanZamir]

You were right!

[@specializedmastering4083]

@@EvanZamir So it seems... Lol

[@awrogers3013]

Don’t be hesitant to tackle these tough issues.I am completely on your side. Don’t worry if someone else feels to make a fool of themselves in response. It’s a sign that you hit an uncomfortable truth nerve… Keep it up Michael……you’ve a great service to us all..thanks

[@rudolphguarnacci197]

That's the best comment i've read so far that doesn't deal with the technicality of the recording. There was alteady comments accusing Mike of not mentioning other companies and singling out mofi. I've watched enough videos to deduce he's not the type. As you point out he's asking the questions we all want the answers to. If he hurt someone's feelings ts.

[@michaellourie4252]

Touchee. Fantastic video. Thank you for bringing this up to the world. I hope this will initiate some change. Wow....well done!!

[@johnloper5740]

Thank you michael for your dedication to our hobby i really appreciate your questions and helping all of us with trying to gather knowledge. I think Chad kassem and gary are also awesome and are very transparent! When we audiophile consumers purchase records at a premium price i dont think it is out of line at all to ask questions. THANK YOU MICHAEL KEEP UP THE GREAT VIDEOS MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@ericfshook]

Digital being the source for vinyl is way more common than you would believe.

[@nyquist5190]

To my knowledge that was often the case even before cds. Digital u-matic video tape copies of the analog master tapes were often used when cutting the lacquers - not to mention the digital delay lines in the cutters themselves.

[@duilawyr]

That had to occur. Compare cost of transporting the analogue tape master, to buying a (used) SACD on Amazon? I’ll sit home and wait for driver to deliver my “master”. The hilarity ensues when “music LOVERS” than buy these LPs swearing they sound better than digital, and I bust a gut laughing when audiophile play those LPs on their $10,000 turntable and record it to digital. Back to square one but with running noise added!! At a huge price! Oh oh, the king seems to be naked!

[@jlo8775]

At this point how does anyone trust anything that MoFi has done? If I were an analog collector I’d avoid them completely.

[@thomaslytle5519]

I have a mint condition original pressing of Thriller. It sounds absolutely amazing. I don’t need this 1 Step cash grab release. There’s no way this Mofi could possibly be improved enough to justify spending a hundred bucks! There are more than enough mint originals floating around out there

[@austinhunt4260]

Yeah but, not everyone has one of those.

[@thomaslytle5519]

@@austinhunt4260 Yes Of course, Obviously! but they are still very Easy to find and a hell of alot cheaper than this Mofi. I didn’t think I’d have to explain that, or I would’ve said it. And! The originals are All Analog. Not everyone has Any records 😆

[@astrozoo]

Recently, I came across a 25 anniversary CD reissue of Thiller. Hearing it, could immediately tell it was re-mastered, because it did not sound as good as the original. The bass and drums were low and thin, the vocals were placed in front of the music, with overall too much high end. Sounded quite bad actually.

[@benprice7666]

@@astrozoo bad 25 was just as bad. No punn intended.haha Watch michael fremer talk about being an expert witness in the estate vs quincy Jones trial a few years ago 👍

[@SPAZZOID100]

@@astrozoo remastered yes. Not re-mixed.

[@fab208athome]

We will have to wait for 'the announcement' but my guess is the master tape was transferred to a digital disc then mastered for vinyl. If it sounds amazing and vinylish then fine - but the price should reflect that. I saw a documentary about Bohemian Rhapsody and Brian May explained that the master tape will never be run again - they transferred to a digital disc which holds everything as a multitrack as the tape would, but now they can use that instead. Makes perfect sense to me.

[@jazzydog5635]

Excellent video Michael - will it affect my possible purchases of MOFI One Step albums in the future? It might - depends on MOFI's response or non-response on this. I have bought the Eagles 'Desperado' One Step album. A bit pricey when you include shipping and import taxes to the UK but I see it as a 'grail' record and was happy to pay the price for it. There's no doubting the sound quality but what did I buy? I thought I had bought a 'cut from the original master tapes', One Step (as described - nothing less and importantly nothing more) vinyl record. But if, and it's only speculation at this stage, there is something more in the process, eg some previously unrevealed digital processing, it changes my view somewhat. It's not the digital part per se, I have a good collection of CDs and digital tracks on my laptop. Even though this album sounds great, it is possible I have been sold something that isn't exactly as described. Well that really matters with premium products and brands and it matters to me. I have ordered a Eagles One Step Hotel California album. I won't cancel the order and will be happy to get it. But in the future when I am considering going the extra mile, will I hesitate more than before? Yes I will.

[@tiborosz1825]

I got Thrillah on order. Planning on transfering the vinyl to a CD so I can listen to it on my sony discman.

[@davidadamW]

Great thoughtful video once again. Looking forward to your Tommy Half Speed reissue.

[@juliensullerot1111]

Just another thought : millions of Thriller records have been manufactured in the 80's, even before digital spreads into music business widely. Just imagine the number of ''tape production copies'' that were dubbed to achieved manufacturing this record all around the world ? Many in US, many in Europe, many in Asia... AMong those, there might be some available somewhere, it'is mostly a 'right issue'. Just think how ERC is cutting their jazz records, at the same period when for instance Craft or AP are cutting their release of the same records. They use different existing 'mastertapes'. You never know... but nevertheless, a clear explanation of the process from MOFI would be great to know about.

[@gootsy]

Well, not an expert here but I completely understand things as you do and you raise good questions. To me, it seemed perfectly clear that the one-step process produced small batches by design and you paid the price accordingly. But 40,000 units ? They have to clear that question.

[@mikepokorny2835]

The masters of Jackson or by any other artist are preserved DIGITALLY. I own a west-german first pressing of the record. I also have the 2009 reissue by Music on Vinyl. They both sound identical to my ear. If you convert the analog master to digital without any loss of detail (this is possible) I don't see a point of conflict here. It still is the master, now preserved.

[@512bb]

In the end it all comes down to confidence. As you so rightly pointed out Michael, if Chad did it you could bet the farm on it. I've been buying Mofi's since the beginning & I'm never really sure what I will get with them, I doubt we'll ever really know the truth.

[@sjakovics]

The bigger issue could be that, if there is another step involved whether it be digital, a secondary tape source or whatever, MOFI has misled its consumer with the full gloss insert clearly indicating there IS NOT another step. That would be a huge class action suit relative to the size of their company. I can't imagine they would take that chance.

[@zackamania6534]

That’s not grounds for a class action lawsuit. Where did you go to law school?

[@emilspec1227]

One step proces only explains the process steps taken from the lacquer to stamper which is explained in detail all over MoFi website and on their packaging, it differs from the usual three step process that produces a mother that can be used to create more stampers. You are just misunderstanding what one step stands for.

[@sjakovics]

@@emilspec1227 thanks Capt. Obvious!

[@emilspec1227]

@@sjakovics well it was clear that you didn't quite get it and needed an explanation of what it is all about so you're welcome!

[@sjakovics]

@@zackamania6534 never said I did. You don't think this high gloss several page insert explicitly showing how your record is made is misleading when it doesn't include whatever the other step is? Pretty sure it visually shows Original Master Recording to Laquer to Stamper to Record. Oh yeah between that OMR and the Laquer there is this "Little Digital Box of Sorts". We didn't think that mattered to the consumer??? Lol I don't care a ton as I have only a couple One Steps but if I was a "completist" and had a shelf of them or a shelf of 2 each, I would be pretty pissed. The surprise everyone is experiencing is the mismarketing or "absence" of accurate marketing by MOFI. Sort of like the diesel Volkswagen class action suit several years ago. A diesel car with small emissions! Oh yeah! We forgot to tell you about this little digital step in the process where we adjust the computer chip to "show" less emissions. That was good for about a $12,000 refund check to each purchaser of the vehicle.

[@damiankirkwood7924]

i use to buy every copy of thriller i saw while digging for records, i had about at least a dozen and then i sold them to a friend, so now i have no copies and am looking forward to the new version

[@ernesttricarico6402]

Seems like you are right about mofi's use of possibly digital sources. I kinda had that suspicion but nothing to back it up

[@leon9021]

And remember, wasnt there rumors that they would do a 45RPM version afterwards as well. So that means even more plays of the tape if that is the case and I doubt they would license the tape twice, probably just making all the lacquers now.

[@faithnolife]

I would love to know more about something you only briefly touched on in this video -- the idea of smaller batch records (300-500 copies) being cheaper to produce via the "One Step" process and possibly providing the same higher quality results as companies like Mofi advertise. I think that this could be a huge deal for smaller bands and labels who only press records in smaller quantities to begin with.

[@duringthemeanwhilst]

The original was, to my ear, one of the best sounding records ever. There's a Brian May interview somewhere where he spoke about how the Bohemian Rhapsody master tape was preserved. completely unrelated, I bought a new copy of Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds today. the physical records, booklet and gatefold are beautiful. I'll be listening tomorrow :-)

[@miss80smoviesandmusic]

Very interesting. I have no insight to share. But was considering buying this for my daughter for Christmas. If you get any clarification on your queries please update us!

[@MrGIJuu]

Hi Beth. One steps are fantastic. This will be the definitive version of Thriller. You can take that to the bank. Get it while you can.

[@miss80smoviesandmusic]

@@MrGIJuu hey Daniel! Good to hear from you..thanks for chiming in.

[@davidkipperman5218]

If I understand what you are saying- I think you are confused on how the One-Step process works. From the master tape they make a lacquer (positive) and plate it (your metal work), then make a convert (negative), then press the finished records from that. The convert gets replaced every 1,000 copies. You don't go back to the master tape ever again.

[@andysmusicden]

Indeed. I’m afraid the video is based on a misunderstanding of the process.

[@andysmusicden]

Having read everything I could find about the process, I’m not so sure anymore that Michael has misunderstood the process. How is it possible to create additional converts without cutting new lacquers?

[@davidkipperman5218]

@@andysmusicden You have one lacquer that you plate, your metal work. You make 40 converts off of that laquer and you can now make your 40,000 copies only pressing the master 40 times and using the master tape once.

[@andysmusicden]

@@davidkipperman5218 do you have a source for this? I believe the lacquer is consumed after the creation of one convert.

[@nielsoe8970]

@@davidkipperman5218 but isn't the point of the One Step technic to skip the metal work?

[@yanni5848]

That was the biggest question probably in the last five years in the Vinyl community 👍👍👍

[@InfectiousGroovePodcast]

I keep going back and forth on this pressing. I may buy it just to buy it, then just use it as my go-to copy.

[@danejohnson750]

Wonderful video, Michael. Very thought provoking. Considering you would have to go back to the original tape so many times risking damage to such a precious recording, would really be done? Would be great to see all records be stamped or have a hype sticker providing the source. Transparency is needed. Thank you Neil Young for the work done providing us with all of this information.

[@twangersturntable]

Great vid once again Michael. I recenty watched a video over on Rockin Ronnie - Ron Beaudrys channel in regards to this disclosure/transparency where in fact the recent Steely Dan - Two Against One, was mislabeled as analog, when in fact it's a digital pressing. To be fair though a Quality records rep commented immediately and clarified it was indeed a mistake. Altgough I have an early pressing, I'm looking forward to the Thriller release. Cheers! 🤘🎶🤘

[@AM_9924]

Incredible album from the great Michael Jackson. Looking forward to hearing the unreleased tracks/demos on disc 2.

[@SPAZZOID100]

What disc?? The mofi is just the original album.

[@AM_9924]

@@SPAZZOID100 Yes but the Thriller 40th album will be 2 discs featuring unreleased tracks.

[@viridius]

The Thriller 40 CD will come with a second disc containing unreleased tracks. I’m not sure that’s true for the MoFi album. My impression was that it would only contain the original tracks.

[@AM_9924]

@@viridius Yes that’s correct. The Mofi will be the original album only.

[@ghn5ue336]

One thing to consider is that the multi track tapes are the true master, and they are mixed down to 2 track as the final mix. This usually involved a tremendous amount of work by a number of people to make decisions and control levels and effects. In the time Thriller was recorded, the mixing consoles were becoming automated with computers, so a mix could be easily replicated over and over, which means there may be several 2 track master copies that are all still one generation away from the multitrack master tape. As well, most major studios had several 2 track mixdown recorders, and a mix could be fed to several machines simultaneously, again creating several first generation 2 track masters. The multi track masters do exist, but not sure if a console running the same automation software is still in existence to recreate the 2 track mixdown. If so, a new 2 track master could conceivably be made just for this release that mimics the original. If the same console, effects and procedure are used it would probably not be considered a 'remix'. Another thing to consider is how many times can a tape be played without significant degradation. On a well maintained professional tape deck, oxide loss and magnetic erasure would be very minimal with repeated plays. You have heard stories about Fleetwood Mac and Queen wearing out their 2 inch 24 track masters while doing tremendous amounts of overdubs, but 2 inch tape is much harder to handle and pull through a machine than quarter or half inch tape (which is used for 2 channel mixdowns), so mechanical handling of the tape would lead to more oxide loss and stretching. I have reference alignment tapes used to calibrate professional recorders, and after many years and countless plays, they measure about 1 db down at 20khz compared to a brand new tape. It is easy to compensate for this with some equalization, and of course all proper master tapes have alignment tones recorded on them so whatever machine they will be played back on can be properly adjusted for them.

[@rudolphguarnacci197]

I am suspicious of any Beatles remasters. I carefully read your professional treatise. Since their early years were mix downs to two track masters is there any point to remix? And what a "half-speed master?" What others are there?

[@Brian-qg8dg]

@@rudolphguarnacci197 The sound of my Beatles Mono box set records is beyond amazing!

[@emilspec1227]

There is no such thing as a multi-track master tape in sound engineering. You mix it down to two track and then you master a stereo tape to get a master tape.

[@SPAZZOID100]

Most reissues are not remixes, just remasters.

[@charlesgund4812]

‘Oooh what are you doing asking questions and trying to ruin everything’….it makes me laugh some of the responses on here 🤣

[@marklabee2545]

I've heard about the "Supersense Mastercut Editions" from Universal Music Group. I believe they have an all-analog cutting chain and six lathes so they can cut 6 lacquers simultaneously. Maybe MoFi does something similar for these large releases?

[@theheepster]

This would be a logical explanation for me

[@CatDadChris]

That would be my guess.

[@michaeltrochalakis6526]

Tim De Paravicini, who designed MoFi’s current mastering chain, one with a single cutting lathe, passed away a few years ago.

[@Dbriskit]

Yep, “slave lathes” would be my thinking.

[@michaeltrochalakis6526]

@@Dbriskit Mobile Fidelity does not have slave lathes. They have one heavily modified Neumann. It is wishful thinking to assume the master was played 60-80 times for all the lacquers needed with one lathe. And then repeat that for the 45rpm box set? They either used a tape copy or a high resolution digital file.

[@austinhunt4260]

Transparency is always critical because it sets the market value we’re willing to pay for something special. It would be deceitful if there was a digital step. That said, if you do a blind test of anything and can’t tell the difference, then you’re just wrapped around an idea. I’m wrapped around that idea of AAA, too, and maybe I shouldn’t be. Maybe there’s digital method that rivals AAA? I think that was more or less Esposito’s suggestion with DDS. It’s definitely challenging some ironclad preconceived notions. Right? I mean if the best you ever heard Abraxas is MoFi’s digitized One Step, well that’s still the best you’ve ever heard Abraxas.

[@SPAZZOID100]

Even if they used an analog tape, it would not be the 1st generation master they’d be getting.

[@ergloo6660]

Looks like you were right, Looks like MOFI have been less than honest, Digital 1 steps!!! I thought they sounded bad on my system and to ears so I only ever bought 1 and returned to buying UK 1st pressings as to me they sounded better. Why would I buy from a manufacturer who is less than honest?

[@OrganTheGrinder]

Oh Michael, what have done!? Lol. Very interesting to see where this all goes. Things are blowing up today!

[@MidFiMan]

I listened to the album last Saturday at Audio Advice Live and I was so impressed I'm going to order the 45 when it's released.

[@Jackgrahamphotograph]

So well said----I'm still wondering why my 1961 pressing of ART PEPPER PLUS 11 sounds a but better than the recent reissue. ( I have a great clean copy of the 1961 pressing). Any thoughts?-Thanks JG PS---I wonder if MOFI will number the copies--I doubt it!

[@JeffersonDD]

Probably because the tape was much fresher on your OG pressing and not whatever the recent remaster used. I'm just speculating though.

[@georgeholoubek6600]

These are great questions, Michael. And you raise some interesting points that should be answered. Everyone pretty much proclaims MoFi One Steps as often the best records out there on the vinyl market. Now if they use a digital step in Its One Step process, is "all analogue" and its constant mantra, "that's got to be all analogue to be the best" any longer valid? Is all analogue really that important for making the best recordings? That doesn't appear to be the case if - and that's still a big if - MoFi is using a digital step. That's been a somewhat heretical question until now in the VC and something the digital community has been saying all along. Of course, it may turn out that MoFi is using an original master tape to make the One Steps and so it may still be "all analogue recordings" when all this is said and done. But the questions need to be settled on this topic once and for all.

[@SPAZZOID100]

I wish this one step was at 45 rpm on 2 discs.

[@JOcasio1977]

You won a fan here my friend...you had it first..i can see the pain in your face when doing this video..i salute you

[@costume5922]

Interesting. Thank you for the video.

[@SynthpoploverbyJohnOrie]

The baking process can only be done once otherwise you have to make a new master of the multi track again. Then it seems more logical to me to use digital master.

[@richardfitzpatrick5748]

Have you got the abbey road half speed master of Tommy. Be interested to hear what you think of it…

[@AeroModule]

I agree that running the tape 40 more times seems excessive and unlikely. But they're not going to reveal the exact method. If they did, you might not buy it.

[@mmuzzwell3654]

I think you are missing what is meant by a master tape. In analogue broadcast they worked with source and master tapes. There were different types of Masters such as CH1/2 instr CH3/4 vocals. Often the word master just meant a copy of the final Dub/Mix. There would have been multiple masters knocking around, some for different markets. some for security, some for tape production, some for vinyl, even some for Radio outlets, some for editors to use for music videos etc... Most actual Masters and source tapes (some 2 inch) as you are referring too are locked away deep in a mountain somewhere like Blue Mountain. So for example EMI in the UK might have a 2nd generation master, Polydor in Germany might have the same 2nd generation copy, Japan etc. I also miss the story of Lacquers in your explanation.

[@dieselbrodeur]

Another KZbinr just posted that’s from DSD. Sony partly invented DSD for achieving of the analog masters. So it kind of makes sense that the master actually is a DSD file.

[@gordocooper9199]

Transparency is the problem, as Charles mentioned with CDs, who didn't look at the label on them to see if it was AAD, ADD or DDD ? The only MFSL album that we know for sure has a digital source is Brothers in Arms. Brothers In Arms, was conceived as a CD from the start and produced completely digitally (DDD). To demonstrate the longer running time of a CD, the CD version was about seven minutes longer than the LP released at the same time. So what do we want ? , the very best every sounding version regardless of the source or the album, the way the artists created it on the equipment of its time with all its idiosyncrasies. One step and 40,000 copies, not sure that I'd want my Master tape going through that torture. Paying 90 plus Euros for a Mofi ,I'd like to know how it was sourced mixed pressed etc. beforehand. Great channel Michael thanks

[@Viniland]

Brothers in Arms has an analogue step in the mixing process. Source: Miller, Greg. Sound and Perfection. New York, 2015

[@SaschaAlmoneit]

In my Opinion Michael is totally right. This is the description of the One Step Plating by Guy Sternberg, Owner of Lowswing Records: „Plating usually is a three step process whereby a lacquer is cut and then plated to produce a ridged metal disc called a „father“. The „father is then plated again to produce a grooved „mother“. The mother is then plated again to produce a stamper that actually presses records. To accomplish one step plating, records are pressed directly from the „father“, which eliminates two of the three steps. As you can only press a limited number from one father, several lacquer-cuts had to be produced. In my opinion, a very interesting discussion with regard to the desired quantities of records.

[@DorianPaige00]

I think it's a compact disc and I think none would be the wiser. I have a single version of Michael's "Human Nature" with different instrumentation in the bridge. Nobody talks about the alternate mixes that Quincy issued as singles and then either replaced the original album version or the single mix has been turned to ether. "Rock with you", "Bad", "The way you make me feel", "Dirty Diana", "Smooth Criminal", "I just can't stop loving you", and the aforementioned "Human nature" have different mixes and many of them did appear on different incarnations of Michael's albums. I'd be more worried about getting what I heard back in the day and maybe some alternates as opposed to debating and worrying about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. We know Miles' "Kind of blue" master tapes are done. We know about the Universal Fire, Atlantic fire in the 70's when alternates burned up, and the salad dressing incident at Polygram east coast. How are all of your cassettes doing? To quote Michael, "this is it" and you should be thankful as I've seen a lot of what I like go into the ether.

[@neilparnell2089]

You are correct about small electronic music runs of vinyl...but remember most electronic music...there is no tape....it's all digital till the metal plates are made

[@Andygoodvibes]

Thanks

[@ianfarber7966]

I've been wondering this as well since the announcement of Thriller. Is it possible they play the tape once and simultaneously cut 40+ lacquers? Granted that would need a lot of equipment and dealing with splitting the signal would be a challenge, but it doesn't seem impossible.

[@ianfarber7966]

@SpamMullet Not saying it's realistic, just a though on how it could be possible. The cutting lathes could be computer synchronized. Of course we know that's not what MoFi is doing.

[@dajmasta94]

I don’t know if this is the case with MoFi but I think another company has a way of cutting around 6 lacquers at a time. That company sells those lacquers, I can’t remember their name right now...But my point is that if another company can do this it means two things: that it’s actually possible to do one steps at a higher volume and not use the tape as much. It also means that if that company is making 500 or even just 100 lacquers to sell, using the tape to cut a minimum of 20 times and probably more than that, that means it must be alright to use it that much? Or at least there’s a precedent for that type of thing.

[@leeherbert1525]

Great video and serious questions. I look forward to seeing if mofi explains the true process.

[@leonhardtart7163]

To my mind one further question is: How CAN ca 40.000 copies can be made in the "ONE STEP" from the original (analog) tape? Did they produce all the needed "laquers" in a PARALLEL process un order to use the original tape ONLY ONE TIME? Or did they do it in another way? Or even it is NOT the ONE STEP manufacturing process? Did the process change since 2015(?) OR when did it change OR did it change at all and how?

[@stereo8893]

I like the way you think Michael. I hope we get some answers for this. How can it be?

[@ed_lackenbucher]

Great video Michael, very interesting talking points here. Is this maybe where the definition of “Mastered from the Original Master tapes” and “Cut from the Original Master tapes” is different? Maybe Stunty can give some clarification here. What would Kevin Grey say here?

[@SublimMedia]

Maybe you answered this but did you contact MoFi and asked the question? This is a great topic M! For 100euro we should have 100% transparency. Thanks for bringing it up.

[@AndrewDixonMusic]

very interesting questions you raise, I hope some answers are forthcoming! I ordered this a few weeks ago and very much looking forward to it, but would definitely be nice to know for sure what we are getting!

[@EvanZamir]

Turns out your question was great timing. They use digital!

[@fitzy155]

MASTERED FROM THE ORIGINAL ANALOG MASTER TAPES FOR SUPERIOR SOUND AND LIMITED TO 40,000 NUMBERED COPIES OK question, this is the blurb at the start of the Michael Jackson Thriller one step release. Does this mean it's all analogue or the can be a digital step be in there somewhere?

[@ceejaydeesoozaa]

this video is a must see for me. i have 10 copies of thriller and just ordered the ud1s

[@johnvillano3024]

Great video. Another one that I thinks started the talking points was the Eric Clapton Unplugged One Step. There is so much info out there saying that was a 100% digital master. So, yeah………. I have been disappointed in the latest Mofi pressings, which is so upsetting and disappointing, especially in todays economics times, money is super tight and people need to be careful on their discretionary spending. You are expecting the best of the best. I am starting to lean more and more to AP as you get some of the best sounding products and their QC is impeccable. Not to mention you can call and talk to someone at AP and they are the happiest, friendliest people and so willing to help you out. I have had a hard time getting a hold of people at MOFI. Sometimes the people at Music Direct are able to help me, but sometimes no. I am going this is a little bump in the road and they will work through it and be back to the company we know and love… As far as analog vs digital mastering, I am on the fence about it. I think there is pros and cons to both and again, like you said, it is how it is done and how good is the original and how they handle the entire process that makes the difference between good and bad sounding pressings. We all have great sound analog pressings and we all have really bad sounding analog pressings, and vise- versa with digital. I think analog is more real life, warm, smooth and has more depth, but some great digital is so clean and precise, with details up the wazoo… extremely articulate. Depending on the type of music you like and system you have, that is an absolute great thing Again, opinions are like a$$holes. Everyone has one and they all stink!!!! Have a great weekend

[@Elvis-wu6et]

This is really interesting. Great question! This is first MoFi I ever ordered. For me is very important that this is the best sounding version of this album. I ordered it for 139€ in one shop from Netherlands. I really hope it will be great and maybe we get the truth about the source from MoFi. Cheers Michael!

[@rudolphguarnacci197]

That's an awful lot of cash for an album. But more power to ya if that makes you happy.

[@Elvis-wu6et]

@@rudolphguarnacci197 like i said. It’s the first time for me to order MoFi record. It’s extremely expensive in Germany and that’s a big problem. Normally I buy 25-30€ records. This time I was just courteous is it really so good 😊 like everybody claims. Cheers

[@rudolphguarnacci197]

@@Elvis-wu6et Sounds like all systems are go!

[@harrysmusicroom]

excellent points, something I never considered. So would lower the first 1,000 have better audio than the last 1,000 after the tape has been run 40 or 50 times?

[@mikepapas9395]

EMI Records Australia pressed 28,000 records from one set of stampers while Festival Records in Australia pressed 27,000 copies from one set of stampers. Last year, Celebrate Records in Germany pressed 13,000 7” records from one set of stampers. For some reason, this is not possible today.

[@mcgjohn22]

There are several types of master tapes. There is the session master, which has all the takes and mistakes on it. That would likely have been a 2 inch multitrack; and as you noted if it were Ampex would likely have the sticky shed problem. Then there are mix down masters where the session tracks are mixed down to stereo. This is usually the tape that record companies used to run production master copies off of. I would really doubt Sony would let anyone have access to the session master let alone play it so many times. Would guess MOFI was able to get a copy of the mix down master. Regardless completely agree with your thoughts on transparency. As one person noted, the master could be a hi rez digital copy from the 2 track mix down tape. Bernie Grundman cut the lacquers for the original release back in the day. Would guess Sony gave him a 2 track mixdown tape to use. But a guess on my part. If you want to hear what Thriller can sound like, hunt down a CBS/Sony Japan pressing. The bass is rolled off but the rest of the music is there.

[@emilspec1227]

Session masters were done prior to multi-track days, think RVG, when engineers would record, mix and master all in one go and you would end up with a stereo session master tape. Once multi-track recording started you would do a final mix down to two track and then that would be mastered to get a stereo master tape. This is the only master tape. From there you would have production copies and so on...

[@DC-xx4kv]

Michael, what I’m curious about is this. Did you find the missing disc from your Paul Simon One Step? Seriously. I hope so. 😉

[@Michael45RPM]

YES!!!!!!!!

[@DC-xx4kv]

@@Michael45RPM excellent. When you mentioned it back in the day I couldn’t believe it. Nice.

[@mark.harding]

First question to answer - is this a digital master? If so, then the issue goes away as perfect copies can be made. Clapton was digital and is labelled “Original Master Recording”, so that label does not imply strictly analogue…

[@TooBuz]

Maybe I haven’t been playing close enough attention, but where did you see confirmation that Clapton was digital?

[@mark.harding]

@@TooBuz MoFi confirmed it to me when I asked them. Plus there are details on Internet about how it was recorded.

[@andyj2120]

@@TooBuz widely known that the original recording was in digital format

[@mark.harding]

According to Steve Hoffman forums, Thriller was an analogue recording...

[@TooBuz]

@@mark.harding I suppose the source is digital, given the era it was recorded. Thanks for following up!

[@Derfunkmeister]

I ordered it when it was announced however I would rather see Off The Wall released as a One Step.

[@xentakis]

I cancelled my preorder (not because of your video). Considering the quantity and the deadline, I simply don’t think MOFI can pull this off without lots of screwups and defects. I don’t need that stress. I’ll just buy the SACD for a fraction of the price.

[@Groover71]

Another Nostradamus!

[@xentakis]

@@Groover71 was that sarcasm? I just don’t want to spend $100 and be stressed about the product. I’d rather pay $30 and not worry about it.

[@angusvanhalen2886]

Analog Productions for the win!

[@miguelbarrio]

All releases have "safety copies" created from the final master. I don't think the one final master tape (if it even exists) is ever used. There are probably hundreds of safety copies of thriller.

[@miguelbarrio]

@SpamMullet Do you know FOR A FACT of records (important records) where the “true final master tape”, NOT a safety copy, was used to cut the lacquer? I would like to know.

[@colinconnors9147]

I’m curious to know if the primaries at MOFI addressed the topic and offered any clarity to the question at hand?

[@ktchoo1098]

if i am not mistaken, Bernie Grudman said he cut more than 100 lacquer on this album. Did Bernie use the same master tape to cut it ?

[@ceejaydeesoozaa]

from the interviews i have seen, yes he used the master tape to cut all those lacquers in the 80s

[@derosa1989]

For certain, MOFI chose to do this at 33 rpm so it's a single disc, due to the volume. Don't forget - you need 1 stamper for each side. even at 1,000 copies pressed per set of stampers, they still have to cut 80 lacquers, 40 for side A, 40 for side B. As the usual 2x45, that would be 160 lacquers! All have to be cut and plated to perfection without any defects.

[@SPAZZOID100]

They chose 33 rpm for this one mostly because people were complaining about having to flip the 45 rpm pressings too much. I personally don’t mind doing that. 45 rpm is amazing.

[@robburnett841]

Good video Michael. It seems to me all you are asking for is transparency. If as others are saying MOFI have been using digital sources for years then they are misleading the public with the Original Master Recording title. Also, no one would deny they many of their recent releases sound great so maybe the digital v analogue sounds best argument is not over 🙈

[@tomaso1]

Can mofi (or another record company) press multiple stampers in one time when they use the origional tape once?

[@patriceraymond1655]

It is Sony, so it’s DSD somewhere in the process. No doubt, even if used as a backup tape…

[@birsansilviu-lucian892]

I asked mofi when I placed my order and they told me that there’s no digitalization involved!

[@DJDanceClassic]

I think they just ised the regular thriller cd as the sourc!

[@matzeflamingos]

Thx Michael, that’s an audiophile question ❤. Maybe I did over read it in the many answers (AWESOME VC!!!) , but how often can you play a master tape till that point that this tape is „broken“??? In my opinion „Thriller“ is one the best sounding records of the 80s

[@BattManion1979]

I knew how to boogie long before 'Thriller' Michael, baby.🤩

[@micheled.4545]

Mofi should call it a DIGITAL ONE-STEP, now that just sounds better ! I think that was the original name but they omitted the digital.