Michael Servetus and the Polish Brethren (Intro to Trinitarian Theology)

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This part of our exploration of Trinitarian heresies discusses Michael Servetus and the Polish Brethren.

[@rfv14]

Hi, a Polish lutheran here. The Council of Pińczów simply refers to one of synods of Pińczów, that were organised in this town by calvinists in the sixteenth century (there were synods organised in other towns as well). These synods were meetings of calvinist nobility and theologians from different parts of Poland. Many of the attendees from Lesser Poland supported arianism, which eventually led to the split within the church. Too bad I don't know any resources in English to recommend.

[@DrJordanBCooper]

Thank you! That's very helpful.

[@PeterMartyrVermigli_is_cool]

Heretical prayer: O Mother of Perpetual Help, thou art the dispenser of all the gifts which God grants to us miserable sinners; and for this end He has made thee so powerful, so rich, and so bountiful, in order that thou mayest help us in our misery. Thou art the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners who have recourse to thee: come to my aid, for I recommend myself to thee. In thy hands I place my eternal salvation, and to thee I entrust my soul. Count me among thy most devoted servants; take me under thy protection, and it is enough for me. For, if thou protect me, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art more powerful than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee He will be appeased. But one thing I fear: that in the hour of temptation I may through negligence fail to have recourse to thee and thus perish miserably. Obtain for me, therefore, the pardon of my sins, love for Jesus, final perseverance, and the grace ever to have recourse to thee, O Mother of Perpetual Help. This is a legit Catholic prayer, look up "O Mother of Perpetual Help" if you want to know if it’s legit. This is super heretical. This doctrine of invoking departed saints doesn’t seem just like "hey it’s like praying to a friend.". . : ) . .

[@PeterMartyrVermigli_is_cool]

And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out. - Acts 3:19 . .

[@kerryweinholz1731]

Trinity Doctrine is mental gymnastics ... and dependent on changing the plain meaning of words. Scripture is so simple with a Father- Son relationship rather than the mysterious, illogical, and metaphysical philosophy.

[@kylewest9415]

Dr. Cooper, would you consider doing a podcast that offered an overall critique of the Hellenization thesis? I know it doesn’t have tremendous credibility among mainstream theologians today, but I still find it cropping up in unexpected places and wish I had a more fully articulated response. Being able to answer the “What has Athens to do with Jerusalem” critique also seems fundamental to the pro-scholastic mission of J & S.

[@litigioussociety4249]

I really enjoy this series. You are very correct in saying heresy helps form good theology, because these videos make me notice I take for granted a lot of the core, mainstream beliefs today without questioning their origin or codification like The Word of God meaning God's spoken words, Jesus, and the bible.

[@Dilley_G45]

Enjoying this series. Greetings from New Zealand

[@solafidedeum]

🕆 2 Corinthians 12:9-10 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.🕆 Let the Holy Spirit guide you this day according to these verses from the bible. Let God’s Peace and Grace be with you (To The Reader). Praise God always. Amen,.,. 🕆🙏🙌

[@rangerswampyclay]

Am currently trying explain Quakerism in a simple way to my students. Would love to hear a talk from you on Quakerism.

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

Thank you, very educational.

[@scottcarter1689]

Dr Cooper... I've always characterized the Servetus incident as... "Servetus burning himself" because Calvin warned him sternly but also with a hint of a humane plea (I've heard of multiple correspondences where the tone got more aggressive by Calvin-which is to be expected. To publicly disregard the orders and request of Geneva and Calvin is the same as Saddam Hussein or some other world challenger subjugating America). In this case it was even worse, He specifically chased after his own destruction... And when someone does that, then pity and mercy on Servatus would only serve to bring scoffing upon Calvin and Geneva. And from your description of Servetus' demeanor, it brings to mind something of David Bentley Hart's demure humility. But apparently even Hart doesn't "hold a candle" to Servetus.

[@Dilley_G45]

Off topic BUT could you break down where your subscribers come from? By country? I know you're busy but...I'm keen to know, outside US. I also wonder if you would be interested in subtitles, I could do German, I think most guys in Germany wouldn't be fluent enough to follow. Also I have friends in Philippines where we desperately need more Lutheran resources. Cheers

[@natalieamberger2432]

Regardless of what the 'times' were like, they had the Spirit same as we do today...the Spirit does not lead people to murder. Proverbs 17:15 "He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD."

[@jamestandy8594]

31:00 Your discussion of Servetus's beliefs (both Arian and Sabellian) reminds me of Swedenborgianism or early Mormonism. Some people read the Book of Mormon as teaching a type of modalism where Jesus is a separate body that the Father took on at the Incarnation ("And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son"). It differs from Sabellian modalism in that Christ's body exists permanently after the Incarnation, separately from the Father's body, even though both are manifestations of a single person (so Joseph Smith described the Father and Son as two "personages" that could appear at the same time, even though the BOM portrayal of Christ refers to himself as both the Father and the Son). Ronald Huggins has an article online making the case that Joseph got this view from Swedenborg, before Joseph/the LDS's later move to polytheism. I hope you have time to talk about Swedenborgianism and the various eras of Mormonism in this series - I'm more familiar with the latter, but I know much less about Swedenborg.

[@alexanderh2345]

Servetus was not an Arian, and he denounced Sabellius (though Sabellian beliefs are hard to nail down bc none of his writings survived the torch). That Servetus is not an Arian is clear in the first 5 minutes if you were to read any of his stuff. Guess that’s too hard for some….though they call themselves “academics.” Ha

[@ric_gatewood]

Are you ok with Servatus being burned at the stake?

[@alexanderh2345]

He’ll say no, but then he’ll say that was the culture of Christendom back then. Because ya know murder has always been ok in God’s eyes….

[@larrythrasher9713]

I love how they always try to paint Servetus as bad as they can and make excuses for Calvin's murder of this godly saint. Seemingly, they can not help themselves.

[@vngelicath1580]

It would be fun to draw correlations between Reformation heretics/Anabaptists and later revolutionary (Marxist and proto-Marxist/French) movements. I sense we're largely dealing with the same ideas -- Marx seemed to want to emphasize a connection to the peasant wars. The influence of Yoder on Hippie thought, etc

[@vngelicath1580]

@@rullion451 Anabaptist thought was cited as a foundational influence on Marx, by himself. He didn't shy away from taking pride in that.

[@andrewrackliff8223]

Do you have a source for this?

[@Lobopandilla]

[@PeterMartyrVermigli_is_cool]

And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. - John 3:16 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out. - Acts 3:19 .

[@tonyb408]

Calvin was not in an untenable political situation. Calvin, if he was half the exegete that many in the reformed camp claim that he was, he would have known what the scriptural punishment for heresy was.

[@lorgaraurelian4076]

For those of us who just becoming with the faith, would the punishment be condemnation?

[@tonyb408]

@@lorgaraurelian4076 Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

[@trailsailor]

Servetus reminds me of J. N. Darby, a stubborn know it all misinformed schismatic.

[@johnnywatson4914]

Servetus was condemned and rejected everywhere he went for his unorthodox theologies on the Trinity. Its easy for someone to type stuff like this from the end of the history of the situation from an armchair with no influence, about his lack of exegesis. I'm not a Calvinist, but this is an extremely unfair observation.

[@tonyb408]

@@johnnywatson4914 under what circumstances is it "fair" for a Christian to kill anyone for their beliefs, heretical or otherwise?

[@samuellundin5328]

Servetus was right and Calvin was wrong.

[@kerryweinholz1731]

Typical of Trinitarians, Dr Cooper misses the point of worship: worship is dependent upon the motive and reason for worship.

[@LXX-Mercedes]

Calvin must be in hell for the murder of Servetus

[@YourBoyJohnny94]

Calvin didn’t murder him and told him not to come, Servetus on the other hand was calling for Calvin’s head.

[@alexanderh2345]

It’s always bothered me how flippantly reformed trinitarians speak about Michael Servetus, a man far superior in genius than any of them. I notice how you demean Servetus’ character calling him arrogant and abrasive, so as to tear down any of his beliefs. That he learned the truth about the nature of God in just a year is a testament to what Jesus said: that this is a mystery which has not been revealed to the wise and prudent but to babes. So it seems you are the arrogant one who knows better than Christ, that a man must be well learned and educated in order to grasp a truth Jesus said a small child could understand. However, reading “On the Errors of the Trinity” will show you just how educated Servetus was. It’s a brilliant theological work, unmatched in the 16th century. You snicker at him having to flee for his life from city to city. Jesus had no home when he was born nor in his ministry. Would you snicker at him? Servetus had the courage of his convictions and was burned alive over them. You call that stubbornness. And as much as you may not want it to be, he is still very much relevant to today. Truth is always relevant.

[@alexanderh2345]

Sympathize with Calvin the murderer over the man that was murdered? 😂 Yeah ok.

[@kerryweinholz1731]

So Calvin chose to side and agree with the Spanish Inquisition. No excuses fir Calvin ... just as arrogant, and maybe more so, than Servetus.