Michael Ward: Decoding CS Lewis, Narnia and The Abolition of Man

Dr Michael Ward is a literary critic, theologian, and renowned C.S. Lewis expert - teaching at both the University of Oxford and Houston Christian University, in Texas. He is the author of books including 'Planet Narnia: The Seven Heavens in the Imagination of C.S. Lewis' and 'After Humanity: A guide to C.S. Lewis’ The Abolition of Man'.
Justin and Belle talk to Michael about the inner workings of the Narnian universe, the nature of Lewis’ imagination, and one of his most difficult works - The Abolition of Man.
Michael Ward: michaelward.net
For Re-Enchanting: www.seenandunseen.com/podcast
There’s more to life than the world we can see. Re-Enchanting is a podcast from Seen & Unseen recorded at Lambeth Palace Library, the home of the Centre for Cultural Witness. Justin Brierley and Belle Tindall engage faith and spirituality with leading figures in science, history, politics, art and education. Can our culture be re-enchanted by the vision of Christianity?

[@MichaelMartinussen]

There's so many gems on this channel :) I'm glad I subscribed :)

[@goldengaming177]

I am a conservative Christian in the US and definitely hold more orthodox beliefs than many of the guests you have on, but I want to thank you for bringing these amazing discussions and bringing such enchantment and beauty to the table. It is sorely needed - especially in many Protestant Christian circles in the US. Thank you and God bless!

[@hapennysparrow]

I am loving these discussions. As a child I dived deep into fairy tales, discovered George McDonald as a fifth grader, and later delighted in The Narnia Chronicles. I'm now 75 and am still fascinated by the brilliance of them. I read his space trilogy, his novel " Untill We Have Faces," his other allagories, such as "The Screw tape Letters," " The Great Divorce," " Mere Christianity," and other works of Christian apologetics. I also loved Tolkein's works and find the symbolism found in both authors profoundly theological. What a beautiful way to illustrate the truth of the story of God's interaction with mankind and redemption of it. The love of God permeates these stories which mirrors the true character of the Great Creator and Savior we worship. I attend a weekly Bible study, and my approach to scripture reading is opposite to the way the leader approaches scripture. It is a bit frustrating; I don't have an analytical approach to understanding the Bible, but rather intuitive, using my imagination to picture what I'm reading. I guess my approach is not methodical or intellectual, but I feel it deeply. In our interactions at the Bible Study, I don't connect the dots the same way the leader does, and have felt innequate. I certainly caught the prophetic insights conveyed in both Lewis and Tolkien's worlds. Fascinating, riveting, and engaging. I always lamented I was not great at mathematics, but was delighted to learn Lewis was not adept at mathematics either. I find Science of great importance, but taking apart the natural world to its chemical composition and physics somehow demystifies the spiritual aspect of God's creation. Thus, my love for fairy tales, fantasies, and novels that show and not tell deep truths, that I can tease out using my imagination. The world needs both kinds of thinkers, but I'm glad the way I'm wired. Please continue these fascinating podcasts. I've listened to several and am inspired. Thank you.

[@lizardkingrocks26]

Buzzing for this!! Been waiting for this for agggeeesss

[@Tybourne1991]

Interesting that none of you mention that Fr Michael Ward is now a Roman Catholic priest!

[@otl_podcast_]

Thank you for doing this!

[@hglundahl]

48:27 My love for Latin may owe as much to That Hideous Strength as to Prince Caspian. THS was the first non-Narnia novel by CSL I tried, not sure I ever read it through prior to borrowing OSP and P in a library, but I owned my own copy of THS before that. Not sure whether I had already looked at SBJ before that, but it was an easier read.

[@johnaisthorpe6141]

Wow, brilliant

[@michaelyork4554]

Knowledge without Wisdom, is a death sentence. "The Needs of the Many outweigh the Needs of the Few, or, the One" Spock

[@daneumurian5466]

I've seen a mathematical analysis of a Beethoven sonata, and we know about the alphabetical Psalms. I think there can be an interplay and harmony between substance and style.

[@truincanada]

A little help humbly asked as that is first time hearing about the math of Psalms? Excited to learn more. Could you point me in the right direction to refer to this marvelous idea in Psslms compilation please 🙏

[@michaelyork4554]

“It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.” Solomon would have loved Narnia. I also think as Lewis grew older, he grew younger. “Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

[@watermelonmanied]

It's not the seven Ptolemaic planets is it?

[@hglundahl]

35:09 _"doesn't belong on one level"_ Tolkien is obviously thinking of Father Christmas and fauns as literary conceits. If he were thinking of them as "what if they were real?" he might have concluded sth different. If Susan Pevensie had been real, she would arguably have lived in England basically same period as (if real) The Famous Five.

[@hglundahl]

41:30 Didn't Tolkien hear lots of the Narnia books chapter by chapter among the Inklings? And, a related question, can The Hobbit plus the Six Books of LotR (which is three volumes, but six books) be analysed in a similar way? The Hobbit - Sol Book I - Mercury Book II - Luna Book III - Mars Book IV - Venus Book V - Saturn Book VI - Jove Does that make sense?

[@hglundahl]

39:42 _"when he became a Christian"_ Meaning, I suppose, the Whipsnade Zoo conversion, not the "most reluctant" merely Theist one ...

[@commonwunder]

Those fixated by a fairy tale find hidden meanings within other fairy tales - who would've believed it?

[@amexicanladyonthesoutherncross]

is Mr Ward a Catholic priest?

[@user-bf3pc2qd9s]

Doubt it. This is a Church of England broadcast so references to Holy Communion and parish priest etc are not the same as Roman Catholic Communion and priests. I think I read that Tolkien tried to persuade Lewis to convert but it was a step too far for him.

[@paulpenfold867]

He is a Roman Catholic priest, he serves in a parish in Oxford.

[@user-bf3pc2qd9s]

​@@paulpenfold867 So he is, he is in the Ordinariate I see.

[@paulpenfold867]

@@user-bf3pc2qd9s that would make sense.

[@NoMoreGrace]

???????!

[@Leningrad_Underground]

Interesting "Christianity is well documented" indeed so. Is the gospel narrative and the actual personage of Jesus well documented? Is it necessary that one has to believe that it is "Actual" and fully "Factual"? I wonder.

[@hglundahl]

_" the way that you know the __13:19__ pagan gods nobody ever believed they were historical personages"_ Depends. Hercules, Romulus, Rama, Krishna, Odin, all of these were pretty clearly believed to have on occasion lived basically human lives. Basically no one contests this of one more Pagan god : Buddha. Interestingly, a Jesuit was imagining that this historicity was disproven by the fact that Bodda had lived 9000 years in different shapes. What he didn't get is that most of these were supposed as previous to the historic Siddharta Gautama.