The History of Safari on Windows - Why Did It Fail?

[@The_Wandering_Nerd]

I think it was a mistake for Apple to remove the Aqua theming from Safari for Windows. Apple has always been an aspirational brand, and seeing a sleek Mac OS X-themed app on your computer might convince you to eventually buy into the Apple ecosystem... I mean, iTunes kept its UI through to both versions. Without the sleek brushed metal design and lickable buttons, Safari's basically Chrome, except it sends your personal data to Apple instead of Google...

[@EMDWDG4]

Well, Apple doesn't like to collect your data and that's something they're proud of. I agree with you tho, the OSX window borders looked sooo cool!

[@crafciak31]

@@EMDWDG4 I also personally believe, that Apple design for UI was great, sure it's a shame you had to pay extra for it...

[@pokotoko]

@@EMDWDG4 Aged like milk...

[@notNajimi]

Yeah, as a kid I was a big fan of apple’s design language to the point I wanted to skin windows to look like OSX lmao. I would’ve used safari a lot more if they kept the aqua theme and OSX style UI design

[@Daniel15au]

@@EMDWDG4 Apple do collect your data. They only restrict what third-party apps can do, not what their own apps can do.

[@Pixelcraftian]

I remember using Safari on Windows 7, and then when KZbin said it’d be ending support for it. I was very confused 😐

[@franklinsalazar8430]

When did KZbin say that they'd be ending support for Safari on Windows? Even then, it doesn't make sense to me. Why would KZbin drop support for Safari on Windows when it's nearly identical to its macOS counterpart?

[@d-o-n-u-t]

@@franklinsalazar8430 It IS identical... only change is the OS it runs on...

[@franklinsalazar8430]

@@d-o-n-u-t It wasn't the fault of the operating system though.

[@nickplj12]

how

[@franklinsalazar8430]

@@nickplj12 How what?

[@stevethepocket]

You forgot the best thing about it: Not only did the original version incorporate all the look-and-feel of MacOS, it also used its text-smoothing algorithm for both the UI and the web pages themselves. And I'm pretty sure they kept the latter as an option you could turn on even after the redesign. This meant that if you were a web developer (like me), you could see exactly how your site would look, feel, and function for Mac Safari users without having to buy a Mac.

[@seshpenguin]

Damn, I remember using Safari for Windows back in the day! Apple and Macs seemed so mystical to me back then, since I've only ever seen Macs in videos or when I went to the mall to see an Apple store.

[@mrjohnnyk]

Yeah OSX was really appealing back then, it was prime Steve Jobs era and they had those cool looking Power Mac and iBook designs.

[@TorontoPopulistConservative]

Safari on Windows inspired me to hackintosh my laptop back in the day

[@TorontoPopulistConservative]

@Central Based Agency The 1050 in my current laptop is unsupported in Mac OS so I run Win 10. I recently fixed up an old 2012 MBP so I do have that as well

[@prayagsuthar9856]

Did you ever get one? Although Apple seems to be letting up with macOS's quality lately, it's still the fastest and cleanest experience you can have on a computer.

[@seshpenguin]

@@prayagsuthar9856 Yea lol My current daily driver is a 15" 2019 i9 MacBook Pro

[@Spax1234]

I'd love to see you make a video on the history of the Opera browser (up until they switched to chromium). Introduced more features that we take for granted today than any other browser and it never seems to get the recognition it deserved.

[@MichaelMJD]

There seems to be some interest in browser history videos, so I’m definitely looking into making more. I’ve got a few ideas written down but I’ll definitely add Opera. Thanks for the suggestion!

[@darknesskingsized8996]

Opera is pretty dece on mobile. It used to be my main until Chrome got better.

[@thecatontheceiling]

yeah opera deserved to be recognized when it was made but nowadays it's just spying on you so that's a shame

[@thecatontheceiling]

@Pindé when did I say google didn't do that too lmao? at least google has good page loading speeds and even better extension compatibility but opera is just gimmicky features that don't even do what they're advertised to

[@groos3449]

chinese spyware

[@popaname]

As someone who's family wasn't able to afford a Mac as a child, I used Safari as my main web browser on Windows XP and I was obsessed! Miss these days so much but funnily enough I use Safari on my Mac now :)

[@thebasketballhistorian3291]

For XP, I also used a Mac OS X skin and Dock (both 3rd party programs). I wasn't obsessed with Mac nor was I planning to buy one, but I just wanted to try a different look for a few months.

[@brendanpulis]

I can remember downloading and using Safari in Windows when I was younger. Eventually I stopped using it and didn’t find out Apple stopped supporting the browser until years later. Great video, really takes me back.

[@notNajimi]

Same! I was shocked to learn it wasn’t maintained anymore, I think I must’ve tried it right before they dropped support

[@700gsteak]

Me too. I think I had it installed with itunes and quicktime. Around that time I also had opera. Using tabs was so amazing for decluttering the startbar

[@franklinsalazar8430]

The History of Google+ - Why Did It Fail? That would make for a good video.

[@juangutierrez5400]

Yeah Google+ discontinued.

[@franklinsalazar8430]

@@juangutierrez5400 The Google+ brand wasn't killed off until Google+ for G Suite was killed off shortly after the shutdown of the consumer version of Google+ in April of 2019. Google+ lives on in the form of Google Currents (targetted towards businesses, but identical to Google+).

[@franklinsalazar8430]

@@ibnalhidha1375 I would like to see Michael's take on the platform. Do you have a link to the video Leafy made?

[@SharkVaderYT]

Yeah good video idea I used to use it

[@franklinsalazar8430]

@@SharkVaderYT Yeah, Google+ was much better than Twitter. If Google+ still existed today, that's what I'd be using instead of Twitter. I wish it had actually become a success. I was in love with KZbin and Google+ due to the integration.

[@ogabrielcasanova]

I used to really love this browser on windows. I remember being impressed at the full 3D history/favorites? view

[@MvsG18]

Gabriel Pilgrim Vs The World

[@ogabrielcasanova]

@@MvsG18 haha, you got it :) the sprite was heavily inspired in scott

[@slickoilstm7154]

I still have it in my computer for legacy content. Glad to see someone know about this browser!

[@JessicaFEREM]

I loved safari when it was on windows, i was a kid back then, but the browser looked really cool and it was a decent browser, I had been using firefox before, and i still use it till this day.

[@lamasu8060]

I always use firefox. Idk why some people hate it but I like the idea of a secure browser that has just as many features as the unsecure ones.

[@Clay3613]

@@lamasu8060 Same, been using Firefox since 2005. I totally uninstalled IE from my current PC. Chrome is a resource hog and missing critical features. Mozilla got it just right since they were a part of the Netscape Devs.

[@volundrfrey896]

When it first came out on windows it was actually really good, and it felt like a big leap forward at the time. Firefox was good back then, but it lacked some modern features as standard. I'd say it was the best browser until chrome became a serious player, and eg. firefox got their shit together.

[@volundrfrey896]

@@smpmuzpid I'd say that the reason so many people doesn't like firefox is the adverse of that, honestly when you're used to eg chrome or safari then firefox just seems clunky and cumbersome. Like for a long time they refused to combine the search and address bar for whatever reason, even though that had been industry standard for ages. With that said, I'm not a firefox hater. I highly appreciate that there's some serious competition to the chrome monopoly.

[@MediocreTCG]

Firefox for everything here. Even mobile

[@silly-goose-127]

2007: Safari on Windows 2020: *_Microsoft Edge on Mac_* Somehow one failed while the other hasn't ...though I'm certain it will (WOW. I never thought I would get this many likes. Thanks I guess.)

[@dregenius]

Ironically Edge is kinda the one that failed because MS dropped the bespoke engine in favor of Chromium, which uses Apple's WebKit. Honestly we can all appreciate WebKit for freeing us from the calamity that was Trident/IE.

[@silly-goose-127]

@@dregenius yep!

[@efusion1995]

1996: Microsoft Internet Explorer on Mac :P

[@LobarRobotic]

I remember Internet Explorer on Mac OS 9

[@anomishfish]

@dregenius Chromium nowadays is built off of Blink which is mostly funded by google (Blink is a fork of WebCore, a layout/rendering library part of WebKit, so its not _really_ WebKit per se). The old Edge used EdgeHTML which was a fork of Trident, IE’s old engine

[@davinp]

Apple also discontinued Quicktime for Windows instead of replacing it with a new version

[@juangutierrez5400]

That succ.

[@Charlesb88]

Current versions of Windows include built-in support for codecs QT4W enabled and VLC is also available for Windows for free too so there is little reasons to install it on Windows anymore. So basically no one is creating QT video on a Mac these days that Windows users cant open with free options such as VLC , which was the main reason they offered QT4W in the first place.

[@privacyhelp]

There is no reason to installing quicktime nowadays. k-lite codec pack is the best way for windows users

[@whette_fahrtz]

QT is even useless on the Mac. You’re not missing anything.

[@MaddTheSane]

The current version of QuickTime Player on Mac OS X doesn't even use the old QuickTime framework. The old QuickTime framework isn't even available on more recent Mac OS X releases.

[@satellitemx]

Safari also brought the OS X font rendering engine to Windows and the text viewing experience is fantastic (you need to manually turn it on). Actually, there is someone still maintaining WebKit Windows build but the UI is quite meh. Also, Apple transitioned away from WebKit to WebKit 2, which iTunes for Windows is currently using, and it uses the Windows font rendering engine instead.

[@radioyug]

Yeah, I used Safari just because of the font rendering back in the days when I had Windows. Now I'm running on Mac for my main work, but when I turn on Windows for games, and do some casual web browsing/etc; my eyes hurt. There are some plugins to mimic / simulate MacOS rendering, but lots of compatibility issues and isn't quite the same.

[@darkbendover]

who's maintaining?

[@mjdxp5688]

I had no idea Safari even was on Windows at some point until a while ago. It's kind of wild to think at one point you could use IE on macOS and Safari on Windows.

[@prayagsuthar9856]

ikr! And what's even _wilder_ is that coincidentally, the last version of IE:Mac for Mac OS 9 was _also_ 5.1.7! (The last version for Mac OS X was 5.2.3.)

[@silverballstudios3578]

I can use edge on Mac :/

[@Delgen1951]

If you Downloaded Itunes for windows it would DL Safari for Windows as well, that habit bugged me to no end, and I would uninstall it. Never trusted Apple after that.

[@askhowiknow5527]

It's great that Google forked WebKit so they could make it just as slow and resource hungry as friggin' possible

[@andreibalasa745]

But Edge isn't like that, I use the new Edge daily and is much better than Chrome in terms of performance, resource utilization, and battery consumption...

[@wacesferpit]

@@andreibalasa745 Microsoft trackers aren't as bloated as Google's

[@andreibalasa745]

@@wacesferpit Might be, or might be something else... I've pointed out what I noticed from the POV of a basic user.

[@whette_fahrtz]

I kinda loathe Chromium based browsers in general, there’s something about the overall UI philosophy that does not mesh with me whatsoever.

[@andreibalasa745]

@@whette_fahrtzI think it s a little outdated in terms of the general layout

[@tomaszgasior772]

5:17 Aaand WebKit is based on KHTML, web engine from KDE on Linux.

[@immoloism]

Looking for this comment.

[@AchmadBadra]

Aaand chrome is based on webkit. So?

[@daemonspudguy]

@@AchmadBadra nope. Chrome is using the Blink engine, a fork of WebCore2, itself a fork of KHTML by the KDE Project.

[@egorleschev]

​@@daemonspudguy first versions used original WebKit. Blink is a WebKit fork.

[@daemonspudguy]

@@egorleschev yes. I know.

[@logan_page]

Idk, I'm still not convinced that this Google Chrome thing will ever dethrone IE.

[@juangutierrez5400]

Well too bad Chrome is most used

[@jaden8923]

@@juangutierrez5400 r/woooosh

[@7zeb]

I switched to Microsoft Edge

[@mrjohnnyk]

Kinda funny because Chrome is becoming the new IE, it's definitely peaked.

[@franklinsalazar8430]

Microsoft Edge is proving itself to be a fierce competitor, so we will have to see how the market adapts. Will people get bored of Google Chrome as they did with Internet Explorer back in the day?

[@lorenzo.delbello]

I used Safari on Windows until its end

[@vibonacci]

Don't say that at a job interview.

[@Madwonk]

As I recall, Safari was bundled with iTunes around this era, as many Windows users would buy mobile apple devices and sync them with their computers. I think the thinking was to tap into that market, since a LOT of windows machines had iTunes.

[@mowtow90]

You are correct. Most apple products sold outsife of US ware Ipods , Ipod Touch and Iphones. Back in the day iTunes was mandatory to transfer files to and from those devices. Not a lot of people remember the Ipod Touch but it was amazing (iphone without the phone). It was miles ahead of any PDA on the market at the time. I remember having it as a student , it served me a lot.

[@Bigjar420]

@@mowtow90I don’t think anyone forgets the iPod

[@Deutriex]

I remember I used Safari 3 for Windows in Windows XP back to 2008. It was pretty resource-intensive. Maybe because of the animations. But moments after we got Google that used the same WebKit engine that Safari used.

[@macinman]

I remember Safari for windows, even though I am a Mac user by default, I do keep up with and use other platforms as well. I think what both Chrome and Firefox have going for them over Safari, is they are both completely cross-platform browsers as well. They aren't just for the Mac, or windows systems. They also run on Linux, and BSD, and probably others as well. I use Firefox most of the time as my main browser currently, mainly because of it's flexibility and the fact it will run on just about anything I'd want it to. Safari with Big Sur has gotten some nice updates as well (including 4K video compatibility with KZbin) .

[@Solidcancer07]

I'm curious why the loading bar in browsers has been abandoned. All browsers now use a spinning circle of some kind. I miss being able to see how much a page has loaded, because some pages just never finish 100% loading. Weird maybe i know

[@LPMusicON]

Modern websites are not that simple. Most of the times browser doesn't know how much it will have to download and if you probably remember sometimes that linear bar would get stuck when loading images etc. When current solutions made in mostly JS arrived you couldn't predict how much data will page download as new requests as the code requests new content dynamically :) Hope it helped!

[@sazwell]

@@LPMusicON if that's true why do mobile browsers still have loading bars across the top? I think the reason you don't see them on desktop anymore is that net speeds have increased so much that a loading bar would just be a distraction. On mobile you may have slow network, so the bar is still beneficial.

[@mmcplus1947]

Man. I miss the old Polished Mac OS X Theme. It was and still is A LOT better then the flat and ugly Theme that is in Mac OS Today.

[@FlakyMusic]

Same. I quite like modernised one they had from Lion to Mavericks.

[@joaomontesinos4839]

agreed.

[@cyangalaxy]

Me too man, mee too. I never owned an Apple device, but the industrial/realistic design they used to have, looked so awesome. The icons were so realistic, high quality and had depth!, the "Aqua" theme from OS X. The brushed metal design, the lower tray where all the apps sit was glass. Unfortunately they've gone to flat design, just like Google and, the worst offender, Windows. I don't even like mentioning it, but the icons in the Windows Settings-app...it's just black and white. Don't get me wrong, macOS and iOS now don't look ugly... but it doesn't speak to me. I really liked the realism and depth.

[@kaleidoscopeon]

Aqua theme for Mac was the best.

[@EvelynHayes97]

I love the design we have today.. I hate the old nostalgia design... I wouldn’t use a Apple device again if forced that on me

[@DrewWalton]

Technically WebKit was forked from KHTML from the KDE project. A lot of KDE folks were pissed about their code being used in a proprietary OS.

[@negirno]

I think they've pissed of more by the fact that Apple haven't contributed back properly, or something? In other words, they did released the code, but in a way that was barely usable, or something?

[@DrewWalton]

@@negirno oh yeah that’s it! Apple didn’t make many (if any) code contributions, which goes against the free software ethos.

[@TechNetworkUK]

It’s amazing how Safari was on windows in the first place

[@jocerv43]

I think it was just a stunt to hook people over to MacOS. Since it carried over the same theme.

[@ITAC85]

@@jocerv43 If you watched the video, you would know that they did it because Apple wanted Safari to have more market share.

[@ananttiwari1337]

@@ITAC85 I'd say they also had that other goal which Jose talked about, at the end of the day (although Apple didn't talk about it)

[@BrowncoatInABox]

Funny enough one of my favorite memories with my brother is when he downloaded Safari and seeing that blue bar for the loading animation made me laugh so he kept loading new webpages. God I miss being 5

[@SimSimsTECHcrunch]

I am both a Mac and Windows user and my main browser on both is Firefox. Firefox has always been a solid browser and regret moving to Chrome way back when I did. I've gone back to Firefox a couple of years back and boy am I glad that I did.

[@Solidcancer07]

Really wanted to use Firefox. But its touch controls were terrible, especially pinch zoom (not sure how it is now). Now i jus stick with chrome, and will probably move to new Edge

[@lordeilluminati]

2. I hate Chrome with a passion and dont understand at all why it is so widely used. I understood at the time of the release around 2009 because it was very good, especially compared to Internet Explorer and when Firefox released Personas it was quite awful, now people just use because of brand recognition. I just keep on the phone because changing browsers on a phone is not as meaningful like on the computer. Both Android and iOS lock browsers to use only the included web engine on the operating system, any other browser installed are basically the same Safari and Chrome browsers with different skins.

[@Spectere]

@@lordeilluminati Android allows browsers to use different rendering engines. Firefox for Android uses Gecko just like its desktop releases. Even if Google tried to enforce the use of Blink for browsers listed on the Play Store, users could always sideload a third-party browser with its own rendering/JavaScript engine. iOS does lock the browser and JavaScript engines. I imagine one could get around that by sideloading or jailbreaking, but I'm not sure how much of a demand there is for such a thing.

[@slightlytango9741]

Even as a web developer, it was difficult to use. It wanted to download itunes with it, and was *very* unstable. They also didn't advertise it at all. That's really about it, you *really* had to be *super* into safari to not only install it, but also to keep using it.

[@GeoNeilUK]

Would you consider doing histories on the various Linux desktop environments? Starting with KDE and GNOME and maybe going onto XFCE and maybe LXDE? Most of the other ones are derivatives or offshoots of GNOME or use either GTK (the technology behind GNOME) or Qt (the technology behind KDE)

[@adamsfusion]

Developer and curious soul here. Safari for Windows is a very interesting case study in the approach Apple took to port software over to Windows. It actually ships with a lot of Mac centric libraries. The UI is (code wise) fairly similar to the one used on Mac OS X and they wrote a custom renderer to render the interface on Windows via GDI and Direct2D. You also saw this somewhat with iTunes at the time. That said, it seems like they had a troubling time keeping it up to date, or didn't care, and as far as I can tell they've ditched the concept altogether.

[@windowsfan95]

Video idea: Trying to install and run Microsoft edge on Windows XP

[@mjdxp5688]

It's not possible at all.

[@juangutierrez5400]

Only possible on Vista and higher.

[@skoda8666]

@@juangutierrez5400 Not even on Vista. 7 or higher

[@skoda8666]

@@mjdxp5688 Oh hi again!

[@mjdxp5688]

@@skoda8666 Hello!

[@Lightstrikers]

Don't forget that there was Internet Explorer for Mac back in 1996. It was a very light and clean browser. Like a lot of mac applications.

[@mrqwerty567]

and and that mac users didn't get another microsoft browser until microsoft edge came out on MacOS

[@PearComputingDevices]

I used to use this on my Mac when I would run Windows on it. I even installed it on my other PCs along with QuickTime and iTunes. It really gave Windows a "Mac" feel. I especially loved the fact it looked like Leopard. Still to this day I love Snow Leopard. Arguably one of Apple's greatest releases of that series. It was fast, snappy and worked on Intel only. While it resembled Leopard in every way, as a matter of fact most non-technical users wouldn't see the difference between late PowerPC hardware and that of Intel because Apple kept the Macs mostly the same, with mostly the same OS. But Snow Leopard was in many ways Leopard perfected. This was a fantastic era to be in the Apple ecosystem. Almost as good as the return of Steve Jobs and the hardware and software released shortly after like the Imac and G3 series Power Macs. Sad actually when you think about it, not the same company. What's most sad is the only open and free browser is less popular then Safari. You would think that Firefox would be the most used browser or at worst slightly trail that of Microsoft Edge. Nope, not by a long shot and not many are using that either.

[@prayagsuthar9856]

Yeah....🙁 Although today, Mozilla is going down a different route and using Firefox to advertise stuff like Pocket and Monitor, even a FF account, and I think that's really off for a browser that's supposed to be all about being open. Heck, I'm even having a hard time finding the FF source code! And I'm sitting here wondering, "Where did the makers of PaleMoon and SeaMonkey get it then?"

[@PearComputingDevices]

@@prayagsuthar9856 Yeah, Even FF has trackers to boot. Soon as you open FF it does a page hit. I am alright with page hits, but it's now to the point it wants to also be your home page by default. Creepy.

[@aryatololHTF]

I just bought a MacBook. Been frustrated with how to sync my bookmarks with Edge on Windows (Edge on Mac a bit buggy here and there so I don't wanna use it for now). And then... I remembered, Windows used to have a Safari. And then I found this video. Such a memory. I was still 12 years old, and in awe of its font rendering quality. Thanks very much for bringing this sweet memory back :)

[@Damaniel3]

I actually used it (briefly) back in the day. I went right back to Firefox.

[@super86brandon]

I loved the interface but the way it rendered text was hideous for me.

[@theblah12]

I remember using it for a while. Was a fairly decent browser for the time, and the Mac OS-style theming was pretty novel for a Windows app.

[@daemonspudguy]

I used the last version of Safari for Windows for a few weeks. I liked it.

[@alexander1989x]

Early Windows versions of QuickTime, Safari and iTunes all had that Aqua design language. It really felt out of place.

[@wadmodderschalton5763]

You should also likely do a video on the history of QuickTime for Windows in addition to the older versions for macOS before QuickTime X, as well as the QuickTime Web Plugin, why that web plugin failed (likely that it was never ported to HTML5) and why the remaining QuickTime 7-based APIs were killed off by Apple.

[@GeoNeilUK]

Why stop at the Quicktime plugin? He could also cover the Windows Media, RealMedia and Silverlight plugins! And how this led to the Real Alternative, the Quicktime Alternative and eventually the K-Lite Codec Pack, FFMPEG, MPlayer and Libav! K-Lite Codec Pack is still going btw!

[@RickSanchez-ig3lp]

@@GeoNeilUK And all this mess is a large part of the reason why the AV1 codec is under development. Yeah we have VLC, but it’s really a band aid when you think about it.

[@finkelmana]

There were many Apple software products for Windows. Bonjour, iCloud, iTunes, Software Update , AirPort Utility, AppleWorks, MobileMe, QuickTime, Safari, and I guess Boot Camp as well.

[@Astinsan]

Edge,chrome,safari.. they all started on linux as the kde browser khtml webkit. A open source engine with pretty advanced features that set it on the right track for popularity. Was one of the best contributions to humanity. Fast. Detailed and robust. 100’s of contributing programmers made a 140,000 line beast that was far better than any other engine.

[@GeoNeilUK]

Apple took KDE's KHTML and made it Webkit, KDE then adopted Webkit as a replacement for KHTML in Konqueror. Google took Webkit and made it Blink. I don't know what Konqueror uses nowadays (probably Blink) I remember when Nokia decided to release a Webkit based browser for their Symbian smartphones and Apple fans started screeching about Nokia StEaLiNg ApPlE's TeChNoLoGy... when it didn't work like that at all. I suppose it does help that Nokia are Finnish and I believe either KDE or Trolltech - a company with close links to KDE - are Norwegian.

[@eenayeah]

I used to use this and I loved it. The whole aesthetic was just very pleasing, and for some reason, I had wanted to have a Mac back then so this was the next best thing.

[@Charlesb88]

I got the impression that Safari for Windows was only developed for the purposes of Windows developers to test their websites and web apps for compatibility with Safari in IOS (for iPhone and iPad) and macOS and at some point the came to they conclusion that supporting Safari on Windows was not longer valuable to them in this regard.

[@augustogalindo8687]

I remember installing Safari on Windows back then, it was unable to open many websites, especially old ones that government didn’t update. And it never worked well with Flash, which at the time was kind of the standard. Nowadays I own a Mac and the experience is completely different, it is way lighter than chrome (which I still have to use for those old government sites) and not as RAM hungry, so the battery lasts longer too.

[@AntoninPoitou]

I used it with XP too as I was used to Safari on my iBook. It was pretty fast and felt better than Opera, but we would still default to Firefox at the time.

[@jimbo-dev]

Apple still supports WebKit on Linux. Gnome Web (or Epiphany if you use the same terms as Apple) is a WebKit based browser which is available trough package managers and from WebKit website under Safari

[@asteroidrules]

The use of OSX design language on a Windows application for the original release of Safari on Windows was likely a feature carried over from iTunes, which would actually continues to use OSX theming on its Windows releases up to its latest version. I don't really know why they removed it from the Windows version of Safari, maybe they wanted to make it feel less like an Apple product and more like a direct competing web browser.

[@Daniel15au]

The beta version used the Aqua theme because they essentially took a bunch of MacOS code and cross-compiled it to run on Windows. That's why the animations are all there - it's the exact same code.

[@oliwiernowicki]

Can it run on ReactOS? xD

[@pepeshki]

Bruh

[@sugaryhull9688]

Probably. It had Windows XP support, and I doubt Apple was told about most of the undocumented Windows APIs of the time

[@HimenHeadFish]

I used Safari for Windows all the way through high school. Didn’t realize it was gone, as I used a Mac after that for a long time. Safari allways ran faster than chrome on those cheap school computers

[@junehanabi1756]

I used Safari on Windows for many years. I was looking to jump ship from Firefox as I felt it was starting to get too big and lose sight of it's origins. Safari was really enjoyable and after Apple forced me to use a different browser eventually I switched to Opera where I've been ever since. Unfortunately, as of this writing, the past 3 or 4 years Opera also feels like it's declining with the introduction of many features that feel like ads or like they don't belong as Opera is trying to prep the Desktop browser for mobile and awkward integration with 3rd party companies like Facebook Messenger which never felt right. I honestly may have to jump ship again, probably back to Firefox, I just really hate the look and design of Chrome.

[@whophd]

The biggest clue is probably over on macOS - the features that got added in the next version were pretty major in terms of cross-platform support, and you can remember what happened when Microsoft Office for Windows started taking off in the Windows 3.1 and 95 era, and its momentum exceeded the ability of the Mac version to keep parity. All that macro scripting compatibility got out of sync, and Word 6.0 for Mac was a Sisyphean campaign to stuff in a ton of momentum going on at the other platform. Even though Excel started as a Mac app that got ported to Windows, it got harder to flow the feature parity back the other way eventually. MSIE for Unix had the same fate. I think it's only since the era of Electron apps that we've seen sustainable (but often feeble) cross-platform apps like Slack and Discord. Adobe's suite of apps looks weirdly bland now, and the whole saga with 1Password is a bit sad. But it shows what it's like to keep going with cross-platform.

[@ahmetdenizsezgin]

i remember installing the safari on my windows vista pc and getting shocked to the top pages feature.

[@TrolluxCaptor]

Getting rid of the iconic Mac OSX design was their biggest mistake. It looked hideous after they did that

[@Caruniom]

You could even extend the „life“ of this browser by copying the Apple Application Support Files from newer versions of iTunes. As it still included updated webkit builds for some time. I really liked that big screen you got for often visited sites.

[@darkbendover]

how?

[@Caruniom]

@@darkbendover install safari for windows. Install an old itunes version (some 11 version stopped supplying the necessary files). Go to itunes golder copy application support files from itunes folder to safari. Still that will be pretty useless, as this is still really old stuff by now

[@darkbendover]

@@Caruniom i never got that method working. like the file in itunes never update the file in safari at all. there's no pop-up that it's been updated either, nothing.

[@Caruniom]

@@darkbendover it wont tell you, as this was certainly not officially supported.

[@Shadow1MI]

I remember using Safari on WinXp back in the 2010, because I shared my PC with my sister and we didn't want re-enter login and password for our socials. It was until late 2011, when Chrome got multiple profiles feature.

[@yjk_ch]

I remember using Safari on Windows back in the day, but I didn’t know early versions had Mac-like UI. I didn’t really care about web browsing performance(and I still don’t), so I’m not sure if it was faster than IE. BTW: The only case I felt “this browser is too slow” was Vivaldi. I think I used it for about a month, and trashed it because it was just too slow.

[@kbhasi]

3:16 It was very surreal to me as a kid back in the day!

[@MyLastSong719]

I was so sad when they killed it. Really wish they'd bring it back

[@cbw56]

Great, informative video, as always!

[@MichaelMJD]

Thanks!

[@ThatTonybo]

I used this as a child, makes me feel old haha

[@yiannisdanatzis2889]

Apple made iTunes, QuickTime & Safari available for Windows, and Windows also made Microsoft Office available for Mac, both operating systems got something in return

[@AnnaMorgause]

I used to use safari on my windows as a secondary browser so I could log into different accounts of the same websites without having to log out of any of them. If I wanted to be on my secondary KZbin account for example I’d just open up safari while I was still logged into the main in Firefox. Imagine my annoyance when apple tossed windows safari.

[@laurinneff4304]

You might already know this, but Firefox now has a container feature which allows you to do exactly that without even switching windows

[@AnnaMorgause]

@@laurinneff4304 I didn’t, actually! I’ve been mostly using chrome for the past several years but that’s super useful, thanks. I might have to switch back to Firefox haha

[@thetechconspiracy2]

@@AnnaMorgause Firefox and Chrome also have browser profiles, allowing you to have different environments within the same browser (though they are in different windows).

[@hR-gw3re]

what a catfish

[@adriraul2002]

Safari was the best browser for Windows 8. Now. Nowaday is the new IE: the browser (preinstaled on Mac) to dowload other browsers like Firefox or Chrome.

[@michaeljones3687]

For years before my transition to Mac, my default browser for quite some time was Internet Explorer, which later I transitioned to Google Chrome. I remember when Chrome had come out and I had downloaded it on my PC. I had used Chrome for about 10 years. Now I exclusively use Safari on my Mac and iDevices. I'll use Chrome when I absolutely need to. When I use my Windows PCs for other things, I exclusively use the chromium based Edge browser. This video gave me some nostalgia as I remember installing Safari on my WinXP computer as well, and had used it for awhile too!

[@funnypranker34]

Edge freezed up on me often on windows 10 I hate it. But once it’s cached and loaded into ram edge is faster then chrome which I don’t use for reasons of Google tracking you. Now Firefox and edge are close but I’ll take Firefox any day

[@iUseAndroid2024]

I have always been an Apple user but I used to hate Safari. Now I’ve been using it for awhile and I can confirm that it is not bad. It is definitely a decent web browser and it is VERY fast.

[@Mrmayhembsc]

I used it for a bit Safari but I have always jumped around

[@curbsideship116]

I am seeing this video 2 year later. When 4.0 launched, I was on Mac, so I didn't know about the whole Aqua theme being removed. Have to say, visually it made Safari look worse removing it. I wonder if there was some technical reason they remove it, as a result of adding other features like cover flow.

[@lmttn]

God, Safari for Windows was so bad when I tried it (this was around the same time as Firefox 2)

[@AraiDigital]

Man... I remember using Safari on Windows... alongside Ares, Limewire, etc years ago... how time flies.

[@razorsparag]

yes, i had it installed on my windows pc back in the days

[@anokata-kd8oc]

I remember used it a few times when it was released, but wasn't sticking to it - the only thing speaking in favor for Safari on Windows despite the speed was the design. When they dropped it - ok, go on. Today I'm using only Linux anyway and when Google introduced their Ad Blocker Policy, I backed up and are using now Firefox with a customized Netscape Theme which gave me the feeling of the good old times back. For curious people: It's the "Netscape Navigator" Theme by Simon, the one with four and a half stars. Edit: While looking for the exact theme name I discovered a extention which give you the old loading animation back. A nostalgia theme park, I guess :)

[@xXBlueSheepXx]

Coincidently, I was looking at Steve Jobs presenting this, and the first iPhone.

[@juangutierrez5400]

First iPhone best for the time being.

[@EricRosenfield]

Safari for Windows was created because iPhone didn’t have an App Store yet and different browsers responded very differently to JavaScript at the time and so Apple wanted to give Windows developers a way to develop web apps for iPhone which is what Jobs pitched as the way to do apps on the new platform.

[@GersonCampos]

Dude I used to use Safari on Windows!

[@ubhelbr]

I loved Safari 3 for its UI and font smoothing

[@evenzero]

As a web developer I recommend Firefox to everyone

[@TorontoPopulistConservative]

Firefox is my favourite browser for PC

[@cookievideomaker4042]

But Brave?

[@TorontoPopulistConservative]

@@cookievideomaker4042 Maybe one day. I'm not sure what the pros are of using Brave. Im just tired of Chrome and derivatives.

[@sam_music555]

@@TorontoPopulistConservative Brave ad block is just fantastic

[@FikiCar0]

aha go back to typing html

[@BooTeresa1006]

Didn’t know there was a Windows version of Safari, but I did know about the Mac version of IE.

[@ColdFuse96]

Firefox = The default browser of Linux

[@JustinDalebout]

Yes true

[@StarsOfPleiades]

Yeah, Internet Explorer was pre-installed in the Mac OS X and Safari was available in the Windows platform. What a memories!

[@KetchupBlood94]

Firefox gang represent!

[@patrik_x86]

I used to use safari for Windows for a while until I discovered Google Chrome sometime in late 2008. I remember it running quite well on windows XP

[@RuinAngel]

I remember decorating my XP with an Mac theme plus a lot of hacks and stuff, so I installed Safari to make the look authentic and consistent. And just like every Apple software on Windows, it runs like shit. For years I thought Apple simply sucks at software, until I got a Mac, and voilà! Everything is fast, responsive and ready to go at a click. Apple software only runs like shit on Windows lol.

[@OliveIsTyping]

Great video Michael always looking forward to your content

[@MichaelMJD]

Glad to hear that! Thanks so much!

[@OliveIsTyping]

@@MichaelMJD your welcome

[@melonademan5639]

1:50 Yikes! Opera isn’t even on the chart! 🤣

[@TylerGH]

Opera wasn’t that popular atm

[@NielsonLucas]

My dad used Opera from 2010 until 2020.

[@melonademan5639]

@@NielsonLucas Why did he stop using it?

[@morganrussman]

Honestly, I think it's a bit poetic that apple wanted to develop a program for its larger competitor, Microsoft, considering that they (Microsoft) did the same thing for Apple back in the late 1990s.

[@lolcat]

I remember it being slow as hell

[@growdot1961]

Glad youtube recommended me this channel

[@CityAnimate]

Watching on Firefox

[@dani.munoz.a23]

You should do a video about microsoft edge for linux! I haven’t really been keeping up with it so idk if its been released yet but I do know theres preview builds available

[@MichaelMJD]

Edge on Linux would make a great topic for a video. Thanks for the suggestion!

[@gp3328]

Im proud to be able to say I am part of that 2.97% that uses edge and that .5 percent that uses bing on edge.

[@graycantcombo]

Ooh baby we’re in for a treat

[@CartoonNetworkGlitches]

"That us windows users" me who uses linux: >:(

[@lexibigcheese]

I used safari way back when I was using windows I must've been like, 9, maybe 11 back then

[@usodarou]

@@lexibigcheese me too but way younger.

[@BeesonsCars]

I remember using the first version on my grandparents old Emachines from the mid 00’s with a P4 and it barely being able to run safari smoothly.

[@naipoioseinai9078]

Internet Explorer was such a great browser To download chrome/firefox/opera😳

[@kuropixeljp]

Thanks for covering this. I wish Apple would bring Safari back to Windows just so people can have a nice webkit browser on Windows as well as use their existing bookmarks, etc.

[@NepgearGM6.1]

I wish it too

[@rhealeona672]

Safari was actually a good browser... But Opera is still the MVP

[@HerrBlauzahn]

Oh I remember using Safari on Windows XP and I loved it!

[@IndigoJo]

WebKit itself was forked from KHTML, a rendering engine developed by the Unix KDE project. The KDE browser Konqueror now uses WebKit.

[@xorxpert]

I still use safari on windows, which can still be downloaded from their official website, though since they dropped support, it’s an outdated browser engine.