Xu Jing's Movements in May, 1960

[@TheSaxon.]

Good work, Michael.

[@michaeltracy2356]

This one was a tough slog. So many different versions of that 1960 climb.

[@АндрейНадточий-м9ч]

Когда много версий восхождения, значит восхождения нет. Откуда мы знаем, что баллоны или ледоруб найдены выше второй ступени, не факт. А теперь фотография с третьей ступени: правая часть скал третьей ступени более размыта чем скалы над снежной пирамидой, следовательно фотографировали на большой скорости(я думаю с самолета), да и ещё под небольшим углом вправо. Место фотографирофания - 10-15 метров правее третьей ступени и 10 метров над землей. А камни 1960 года в 2024 году не доказательства. Может эти камни в 1975 году китайцы принесли. ))))

[@kychertguy5061]

I have no idea why I’m so invested in these.

[@DiogenesOfDelaware]

The sense of longing for adventure...?

[@ManishSingh-xo1fb]

Umm Everest is a story of Human vs Nature. That's why.

[@kensilverstone1656]

The Chinese have failed to provide enough information to confirm that they climbed Everest in the dark. The further inconsistencies in this account affirm that Mr. Tracy's detailed and intelligent analyses of numerous climbs up the North Side of Everest have suggested the Chinse failure all along.

[@hipster-somme977]

For me the Chinese going back the next time and installing ladders at the second step is the giveaway. It’s like standing and cleaning your downstairs windows then buying 50ft scaffolding for the next time you do it.

[@wreckanchor]

They didnt make it in 1960.

[@jaye156]

To China it doesn't matter if they really did succeed or not it's about the idea of them succeeding, that's why alot of the information is highly suspect if you view through the lens of them actually trying to do a real expedition when in reality it was just a opportunity for propaganda

[@jackharle1251]

Funny ... something about not being able to trust the Chinese, ever.. I would trust Japanese on their word.

[@Error_404_Account_Deleted]

Always a good day when you post, Mr Tracy. Learning a lot. Thanks for your book recommendations, and warnings. Enjoying The Third Pole audiobook. Perhaps one day you’ll record a narration of it with some funny footnotes. 😁 I would love your opinion on the dozen or so Everest documentaries on Tubi. Several covering Mallory and Irvine. I’m sure you’ve likely seen them all.

[@michaeltracy2356]

I have probably seen them, but they were made years ago and so much new information has "come out" recently. Plenty of new "documentaries" will be made about their climb for the 100 year anniversary and I will try to comment on some of those. A couple new books are in the works so I'll try to focus on the new stuff. But I would like to get my review of Into the Silence done as well.

[@Error_404_Account_Deleted]

@@michaeltracy2356 very cool, thanks! Good info too, I might as well try to stay relevant. Excited for more from you 🤘

[@drozzmojenkins9605]

Your detective work is next level.

[@poc329]

Thanks Michael. You videos are always so thorough & informative.

[@tightropetomg]

I do hope you publish a book of your various analyses. Very fascinating and well thought out.

[@vukasinsibinovic8137]

So,there is a body that Xu jing saw in 1960.. And another Chinese report seeing a body in 1975 at the foot of the rock (like sleeping).. also above 8.100m This year it’s a 100 years!! Irvine it’s still high there!! Really hope one day he will be found! Michael,amazing work!! Just continue man! Enjoying very much

[@moethecat4265]

Based on Chinese actions and interests outside of mountaineering, it’s pretty safe to say what really happened in the expedition. Great video as always👏.

[@Boababa-fn3mr]

If it's safe, say it. 😂

[@darthcheney7447]

Always top notch.

[@frankblackadder]

Your channel is one of the most interesting I've ever found on KZbin. Finished watching every single video you have so far today and I wish there was more!

[@Chris-CardVault]

Well Done! Very professional, and detailed!

[@graywz]

Thanks. You give an excellent summary of your videos so far and the

[@geofff6671]

Another great video Michael! Your knowledge and line of reasoning is very compelling.

[@rogjackson]

Yeah, the Chinese not having summit photos (of their 1960 climb) has always bothered me. To have gone to so much trouble and so many resources expended, and then to not have and to not demonstrate the proof. Perhaps the rocks are the proof, but then why isn't there scientific study (and accompanying proof) of these items? Is it possible (or not?) that the Chinese were merely negligent in documenting and proving a successful summit expedition? Excellent video. Perhaps groundbreaking.

[@jaytimmerman992]

Thank you. This is fascinating. Keep up the good work.

[@rickonstark5452]

Great Video...once again!

[@pauldavis4287]

Hi Michael, Are all of Mallory and Irvine’s O2 bottles accounted for? If not, could there be a couple of bottles that were cached at the head of the Norton Coloir? How difficult would it be to fly a drone from the summit down into that “gully” to do an aerial search?

[@michaeltracy2356]

There are numerous problems with the oxygen bottle(s) that were found. We do not know if one or two were found, we don't know who originally found them, where they found them, nor exactly who moved them in 1999 prior to them being "found." Nor do we know the exact location they were supposedly "found" in 1999. Drone images of entire area have been taken. Not that difficult to fly drone from summit and I look at one video of the summit drone in an earlier video. The problems are not technical or has there been a lack of research. It is not "if only we could do this or that..." Those things have been done. To some extent, it is just human nature. Look at the Horizon postal scandal. People will ignore all facts just so their "team" can be right.

[@ronl8495]

The Chinese expedition is almost laughable! Great video Micheal!😎

[@alanhill5337]

Another excellent analysis Mr Tracey - thank you. And, as always I revert to reading the comments . Call me squeamish, pedantic or just old fashioned - but why the apparent compulsion to evict Everest of bodies encountered during an expedition? Are they a hazard ? Do they 'get in the way' ? Or is it just plain 'ole O2 deprivation kicking in ? Just wondering.

[@michaeltracy2356]

Very little you hear on the internet about Everest is true. It is better to look at verifiable facts. You can see a body in the 2019 expedition KZbin videos. That is the body of Namygal Sherpa -- which they incorrectly label as a Japanese climber. He died in 2013 -- the year I was there. He was still there in 2018 when I went back and in the photos form 2019. He was directly on the trial, but has since slid down about 10-15 feet. There is no compulsion to remove him. Peter Kinloch's body was also there in 2013 and there are photos from 2019 with him still there. Bodies do get removed occasionally and it is possible to evacuate any body and take it back to its home country -- another "fact" the internet gets wrong. Numerous bodies have been recovered and buried at home or otherwise given funeral ceremonies -- Nepalese preferring cremation. If you look at KZbin, videos that show and talk about deaths on Everest drive all the traffic. Even my own channel gets significant "referrals" from death merchant videos -- videos by channels peddling death and disasters on film. Thus, there is tremendous sensationalism regarding bodies on Everest. It is a rather unique situation, and I understand the interest in it. However, there is also a macabre fascination that frequently goes too far and even more frequently gets facts wrong.

[@alanhill5337]

Thank you

[@garysmith5641]

Nice work somebody had to say it .

[@prashantrao893]

In light of their mysterious change in route to Mallory’s and Irvine’s old camp, what are your thoughts on the theory that they indeed found Irvine, obtained his camera, and reportedly, “mishandled” the development of the photos? I remember reading one of the Chinese climbers on the expedition confirmed this too.

[@michaeltracy2356]

That is Chinese propaganda. The Chinese do no care if they look "incompetent" for botching developing some film. What they do not want is for people looking for Irvine to talk about summit rocks. The whole story about the "found camera" focuses exclusively on a camera -- when summit rocks would determine whether they made the summit. Pretty much any story that discusses a camera is not legitimate. The author of the article, Mark Synnott, stated that his book was going to be published in China after it included that story about the camera in it. So, you tell me, an author who gets his book published in China after adding a story, does that make it more or less likely the story is true?

[@prashantrao893]

@@michaeltracy2356To answer your question directly - yes, I agree it is less likely to be true. My statement was made while trying to rationalize their statements about supposedly summitting. While their inaccuracies simply could be their coverup of an unsuccessful ascent the true summit, I flirted with the idea they did indeed find him and took measures to ensure evidence that Irvine and Mallory reached the summit is destroyed, for obvious reasons. One theory is they destroyed camera evidence, another is upon finding Irvine and inspecting the body, they potentially “relocated” him. This, of course, is far into “conspiracy land,” and supported by no evidence. However, by their own account, they potentially saw Irvine’s body, and if true, I find it hard to believe they did not inspect it. Anyways, thank you for the fascinating videos, careful research, and bringing light to these two remarkable mountaineers. I also remember you said you haven’t watched “Beyond the Limit” yet. Obviously there is little technical insight into those early 2000 expeditions, but I think is worth watching. I thoroughly enjoyed it someone who has consumed lots of high-altitude mountaineering entertainment but has never set foot on a mountain.

[@colinasquith]

The photograph that purports to be from 8700m is a beautiful image. I'm not convinced Google Earth is accurate enough to make the call one way or the other, but to my eyes, using Google Earth, this picture looks like it was taken looking northeast from about 8300-8400m, in the area of or just west of the northeast ridge. This is based on the angles, perspective, or foreshortening as it were, of the distant peaks. The 8700m view has slightly different angles. It also appears that the sun is in the east. If this picture was taken at 8700m, is this supposed to be the morning of the 25th after summiting? Or did it take over 24 hours to summit from 8700m on the morning of the 24th? Excellent channel here.

[@michaeltracy2356]

The Chinese claim it was taken the "morning" of the 25th -- that is, on the descent.

[@colinasquith]

@@michaeltracy2356 Thank you.

[@JamesScott-o7i]

Michael, thank you for your research on this mystery. It was always implied that Chhiring Dorje was at / near the main North Route; not at the Northeast Shoulder, where he would find Peter Boardman. Thanks for your clarification. Wonderful! Question: This leaves Xu Jing on the North Ridge / below the First Step. As he descended, do you believe it possible that he encountered the 1933 High Camp remains, and mistook it for a body in a sleeping bag? The 'blackened' face could simply be the misidentified refuse / debris left behind by the 1933 team. This allows for Irvine to have fallen down to the CRG in 1924. Or is it your opinion that Irvine WAS on the upper ridge at some time after 1924 ? In any case, you are a very good Sherlock Holmes in your own right. Keep up the good work.

[@michaeltracy2356]

I think the drone photos will answer your question. If he was on the upper mountain for any period of time, likely some piece of clothing or something remains stuck to a rock. Mark Synnott just called for the drone photos to be released so that people could look -- which makes you ask "look for what?" Look for anything that gives a clue as to what happened. People should focus on getting the artifacts that were found on Mallory's body in 1999 and the drone photos taken in 2019 made public. Then there would likely be little need for speculation. Perhaps we see an oxygen bottle somewhere in the zig-zag. Perhaps we see some clothing stuck to a rock below the ice axe. There is momentum building, so I don't get distracted by all the Everest "mysteries."

[@JamesScott-o7i]

@@michaeltracy2356 Thank you for answering my question !

[@wreckanchor]

Michael in your opinion if Mallory took the zig zag route and went around the 2nd step, how long do you think it would take to summit roughly? Im left wondering if they had enough time to make it?

[@michaeltracy2356]

I give a complete timeline for exactly where they were for each piece of their climb in "The Watch" video.

[@wreckanchor]

@@michaeltracy2356 thank you

[@JonasReichert1992]

So Is it 8848 or 8850 where the Peak is? I read both regularly.

[@sharonsplat]

Michael Tracy giving us all facts and no cap! ❤❤

[@davidrennie8197]

01:30 The speaker says Everest summit rocks are "unique" but is using a chart that shows 3 location for the geology

[@michaeltracy2356]

Think through what this video is about and it will make sense.

[@deepwood4]

If he saw Mallory's body, there is no guarantee that it was in the location it was found in. Could've been much further up.

[@michaeltracy2356]

Mallory's body was fairly well attached to the mountain and it took a great deal of effort and damage to the body to lift it. They whacked him with an ice axe, step on him with crampons, and ripped up his clothing in the process. It is very unlikely that he had moved down he mountain from a higher location in 1960. The amount of scree and the extreme efforts needs to pry him off the ground make your theory extremely unlikely - bordering on completely impossible.

[@pauloalvesdesouza7911]

Excellent analysis, got my Yeti senses tingling. I suppose it is fair to assume Xu Jing probably took the least challenging route possible. The Sommervell one is interesting because puts him at the top of Mallory basin, and as you point out Dave Hahn didn't had good snow conditions for a proper search on that location. On the claim of seeing the "body of an english climber" the question that needs to be asked first IMO should be: what reason would Xu Jing, or the climb team leadership, have to create such a tale? It doesn't reinforce nor legitimate their claim to the summit.

[@michaeltracy2356]

I wish Dave Hahn had better snow conditions. I would have been very happy if Dave was the one that found Irvine. In terms of creating a tale, it is not clear what portion of it is created, but it is easy to see the motivation. The 1960 expedition seems to have spend plenty of time on Mallory and Irvine. The traversed way over to locate 1924 Camp 6, they found the ice axe and some oxygen bottles above the Second Step. They then spent the next 40 years back tracking and changing their story as they realized what had happened. Seeing a body helps this Chinese propaganda in that the Chinese were able to find the body and the English didn't even look for their own man.

[@money_motors_more]

@@michaeltracy2356 What!? The chinese found oxygen bottles above the Second Step? That information is completely new to me! And they even admitted that? Isn't that like the strongest indication overall, that M&I made it to the summit. Having 'all' the technical difficulties behind them, with only relatively easy terrain ahead? And what ice axe did they find? (didn't know that either). I thought the 1933 expedition found the ice axe. Sorry, for my confusion and thanks for your great work! Since I discovered your channel all the details add up quite well and I'm seriously shocked about all the political aspects/propaganda to it, though I should've known. Naive me.

[@michaeltracy2356]

Yes, Messner wrote about it in The Second Death of George Mallory. He discounts the Chinese version as he thought they were just trying to get people to believe that they themselves had made it above the Second Step. While that may be true, it does appear the Chinese made it above the Second Step -- just not to the summit. As with everything in this "mystery," people take the facts they like and ignore the ones that don't fit their narrative. For years, it was just accepted that the Chinese made a mistake identifying where they found the bottles and that they had fully disclosed everything they found. Hemmleb explains as much in one of his books. However, then the 1924 ice axe showed up in the Chinese museum and it became apparent the Chinese had not been fully candid about what they found and where they found it. We still have no indication from the Chinese where they claim to have found the ice axe. More problematic is the movement of the oxygen bottle "found" in 1999. That is a clear indication that someone has a very keen interest in changing facts about oxygen bottles and their location on the mountain. This bolsters the notion that the Chinese did find bottles above the Second Step and later retracted it to fit their new narrative.

[@money_motors_more]

@@michaeltracy2356 It was just today that I watched your video about the 1999 oxygen bottle discovery and i was seriously puzzled when I heard the sherpa or whoever moved it. Like, why would you do that?! On an expedition to solve the mystery, why would you move pieces of evidence (before making a photo of it)? It would make a bit of sense if he moved it downwards (like he forgot about the protocol, what to do etc.) and just wanted to make sure I won't get overlooked by the actual search team, but why on earth would you take it up with you on that height? That doesn't make any sense. I would not be wondering if the chinese took their chance in the last 3 years of closure to get rid of any evidence they could find. And maybe they even used the 2019 expedition to find Irvine for them. Or are you confident he's still up there?

[@michaeltracy2356]

There are various explanations, but we will never know. More problematic is that two bottles were reported found, but now we only have the one with no explanation as to why Peter Firstbrook stated two bottles were found in his book written well after they had returned. Nothing about what happened there is clear. We just don't know all the facts, and the people there will never say. You can watch this video with Thom Pollard calling the entire team a bunch of liars, cheaters, and deceivers. And yet, you ask him about it today and they are a bunch of saints. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIPFmYdqmraLrrs

[@vigoarizona2027]

i hope there will be the searching expedition for irvine to commemorate the hundred years of mallory and irvine attempt

[@michaeltracy2356]

"Search" expeditions, sure. But people who will report honest findings... doubtful.

[@vigoarizona2027]

@@michaeltracy2356 why?

[@michaeltracy2356]

@@vigoarizona2027 This is a very political and "influenced" subject. The nice people who purport to bring you the "truth" usually have an alternate agenda. And that agenda probably ties back to China. As you look into the 1960 Chinese "summit," more of this will make sense.

[@Garde538]

Good to see others publishing the dissapointing truth 1:42

[@michaeltracy2356]

There seems to be a big divide on this with people outside the climbing community as seeing this as an obvious truth, while people with some interest in climbing tending to ignore the issue.

[@Garde538]

​@@michaeltracy2356will the Chinese give you any dramas with accessing the Tibeten side again?

[@Garde538]

Great photo at 8:05 💪

[@eric-wb7gj]

TY 🙏🙏

[@Oldguy-k3t]

Telephoto still pics show very steep slopes. Pics taken at high camps show much more gentle slopes.

[@CandyGirl44]

How does one know that summit rocks haven't been brought lower down the mountain by avalanches, falls with climbers, glaciers etc? I don't understand the emphasis on summit rocks to "prove" one reached the actual summit.

[@michaeltracy2356]

If they were on the summit, the rocks would be summit rocks. While there is a remote possibility that somehow a summit rock was deposited lower down, that they collected 9 such rocks makes the possibility too far fetched. People routinely collect rocks from Mount Everest to analyze different layers, and this has not come up. Just far too improbable. More likely, their story is a sham.

[@samdavis6445]

I think they came out with some movie called Ladder 75' or something like that. Apparently the title Ladder 60' was Taken by some Liam Neeson movie where he drives some semi-truck on icy roads up some rock step without tires.

[@wyomingadventures]

Wtf! I think you missed something. Like wrong comment section.

[@samdavis6445]

No, I don't believe I missed anything. It was a joke. Ladder 49 is a movie about firefighting, the joke is that they would come back with a Ladder in 1975 had they made the top in 1960, I also included the title and plot of two other movies in there to further illustrate what I think about the superpowers of both Liam Neeson and Chairman Mao. Also, check out the movies Neeson has made since 2009, they've done him dirtier than Mallory and Irvine.@@wyomingadventures

[@fin29864]

Do you think it's possible that Irvine actually isn't anywhere near Mallory on the mountain? I'm new to the mystery and the geography of the mountain itself, but is it not possible that Irvine fell, and slid pretty much the entire way down the mountain, and has since been covered in snow/could have fallen into a crevasse? Or that after Mallory fell, Irvine stumbled on solo and fell a lot further along, down the mountain? With all the searches on the NE ridge that have happened since Mallory's remains were found, I find it hard to believe Irvine also hasn't been found. Is it also possible that Irvine could have fallen first, being the less-experienced climber, then Mallory in turn fell an hour or so later? If Irvine fell, maybe he went off a ledge, and had a higher velocity tumbling down and ended up much further down, where nobody has searched...

[@michaeltracy2356]

While those are all possible, there is a lot of information about where Irvine might be and as you are new to the "mystery," it will take some time to understand that people working on this "mystery" act more like treasure hunters than problem solvers. People are not going to tell you where they searched nor what they found unless they can make money off it. So, all the "searches" really tell us nothing. As I will get into in an upcoming video, it is likely that Irvine was found in 2019 and that he will be revealed this year. The North side was closed for the past 4 years, and there are a number of reasons to believe they found something in 2019. One of the many reasons to believe they did is because Thom Pollard, who was on the 2019 search, has stated he has some information about Irvine's location that he is not permitted to disclose.

[@SuperEvilMonkee]

@@michaeltracy2356 where did he state this Michael? Big fan of your work, it irritates me that a group of people are actively working to profit from the deaths of 2 such legendary climbers instead of working to solve the mystery

[@michaeltracy2356]

He said it in a comment and has not mentioned it since. I'll show the comment and get into other reasons why it was likely Irvine was found in 2019 in an upcoming video.

[@Oldguy-k3t]

K

[@nevets4ever4]

Hi Michael - A naive question perhaps - but what prevents an interested well-funded, politically-connected party from securing Everest summit rocks (black market?) - on a later date - after the claimed ascent date - and claim "see here are the rocks that we obtained from our summit climb!" (FWIW - I checked that Everest summit rocks are not available on eBay - at least as of today.)

[@michaeltracy2356]

For the average Joe, nothing. You can fake a summit and produce rocks to "prove" it though I don't see any benefit to doing so. Nor would anyone wish to expend the money to test your rocks because they wouldn't care if you faked it. For the Chinese 1960 team, there are numerous photos of the alleged "summit rocks." For them to be able to purchase "black market" rocks or go there an collect some actual rocks from the summit would do little good because the rocks would not match the photos -- which include a microscopic view of one of the rocks. If the Chinese have the ability to duplicate entire rocks while faking their actual composition, this would exceed the technology on Star Trek, and I would say just give them credit -- as they could likely also just travel back in time and help their team reach the actual summit. But keeping with technology realistically available, the Chinese's claim can be tested. Of course, the most direct attack on any "test" is to use a human who is compromised and just have that person "confirm" the rocks match summit rocks without providing any detailed analysis that be be publicly verified.

[@sabineb.5616]

@nevets, in 1960 it wasn't possible to purchase black market summit rocks from Mt. Everest - except from Edmund Hillary or from Tensing Norgay 😉 And when the Chinese team from 1975 was successful and collected rocks which were really from the summit, that train had left the station. There were pictures of the 1960 rocks, and if the custodians of these rocks would've allowed an examination by experts after 1975, everybody would've smelled a rat 😉 lt was much easier to keep the rocks from 1960 safely locked away and simply ignore all critical questions. And as long as Wikipedia says that the 1960 team summitted, everything is fine. It's far more important to destroy all evidence which might prove that Mallory and Irvine did reach the summit! Today it would probably be possible to purchase summit stones if someone wants to pretend that he or she reached the summit. However, such a fraudster would need a bit more evidence than a few rocks. But who knows...These frauds happen in the mountaineering community. And there are quite a few well known climbers whose claims have been met with suspicion.

[@SimonWallwork]

No Mountaineer here, but my money is on Mallory. I've known these gentlemen.

[@pbp6741]

Mallory +100 China +19900 Neither +102

[@natpagle2323]

Such a shame that history is written by the most powerful

[@Oldguy-k3t]

Did the Chinese say what they left at the summit? Would not climb empty handed. A bust of Mao, flag, etc.

[@heseekstruth33]

These posts questioning the Chinese climbing everest in 1960 smack of racism...same channel supports some of messners climbs that have much proof as this climb in 1960

[@michaeltracy2356]

Messner has a photo of him on the summit in 1980. You have one of the Chinese "summit" in 1960?

[@Boababa-fn3mr]

Lol the R word means absolutely nothing these days. Anyone shouting R is a R himself.

[@sabineb.5616]

@heseekstruth, that's absolute nonsense! If the 1960 team would've supplied at least some shred of evidence - like letting their rocks be inspected by experts - and if they had ironed out the blatant kinks in their narratives, most experts would've accepted their claims. Especially the rocks could have been powerful evidence, since it wasn't possible in 1960 to get rocks from the Everest summit on the sly 😉 l actually think it's surprising that so many people still believe that the 1960 team was successful! This isn't a case of racism but of abuse of power. It would not even surprise me if the climbers themselves have not been happy that their expedition was used for making a political statement. It’s a bit like the nefarious state doping of athlets. Athlets have always doped - but totalitarian states have turned doping into a political duty, and it's well known that many young athlets didn't even know that they were doped, or they have been forced to go along with it. And China has a terrible track record as far as known doping cases are concerned. It's absolutely not far fetched to assume that the government supported or maybe even constructed a false claim. That said, it’s of course true that there has been and probably still is racism in the mountaineering community, and the name of Edmund Hillary's partner Tensing Norgay wasn't always as well known as it is today! But doubting the summit claims of the 1960 team has nothing to do with racism. Sincere question: why do you think that we should believe that they reached the summit? But, please stick to that specific case. Pointing your finger at other climbers, who also made dubious claims doesn't make your case more plausible. I know about a few dubious cases, too, where l think that the claims are kind of weak. But most of them were/are climbers with a very good track record. Most of them had the abilities to do what they claimed to have done.