Micro Hydro - Generator 1st Run

Part 8 - In this final chapter we'll be finally testing our first prototype Micro Hydro housing and jet combinations. But we're not done yet. This ends the chapter series and we'll begin countless testing and improvement episodes.

[@samhartfieldlewis5247]

This is a brilliant setup, best thing about making things yourself is learning & understanding how too fix. Thanks this is cool, take care Sam

[@Magutz]

I have a few more crazy ideas to try out. Thank you for your encouraging comment.

[@Mr.Engineer.]

Excited to see the results with the new nozzles. One Scottish guy here on KZbin managed to double his power output by setting up the inverter correctly for hydro instead of "solar" MPPT

[@Magutz]

Next month I'll start playing around with MPPT controllers. Thanks for the info.

[@Mr.Engineer.]

@@Magutz I have many times now tried to comment here with a link to the video I am referring to, but youtube deletes it. Search for these exact words: Micro hydro part 4-750watts- Off grid day 44 It is more about adjusting what the MPPT tries to achieve than have a specific hydro inverter. Personally I am not a fan of the midnight inverters ...

[@Magutz]

@@Mr.Engineer. I found the video you reference, thanks for the update.

[@jameslagura3521]

We're u buy that turbine

[@Magutz]

@@jameslagura3521 I bought it from motenergy.com either through eBay or directly from their website.

[@andrzej3511]

Very careful workmanship! I'm impressed. Your power plant stands out from other solutions. Let me give you a thought that doesn't have much to do with performance and efficiency, but it does have to do with safety. You have installed electrical accessories directly on the turbine housing and in its immediate vicinity. This is a mistake. Electrical devices exposed even "only" to splashing water corrode very quickly, and wet insulation is a ready recipe for problems. I understand that it's curiosity and impatience. But ultimately, pay attention to the issues I mentioned. Follow the electrical safety standards in force in your country. Believe me, they weren't made by idiots! The fact that the alternator operates at relatively low voltage has nothing to do with it. It's about smooth operation and reliability. Good luck!

[@Magutz]

I will pay close attention and follow your advice. This is more a test bench rather than a permanent power house, either way you're correct. Thanks for your input.

[@andrzej3511]

@@Magutz I'm glad I could be of help. :)))

[@simoncoe7781]

Those bearings are robbing so much potential power.

[@Magutz]

It ended up being the clearance between the generator and the housing. Thanks for posting.

[@JR-xw5dk]

I have seen people taking a hot hole saw a just big enough to fit into the PVC pipe that is glued into a fitting. When it heats up the pipe you should be able to remove the pipe from the glued fitting. Cutting the pipe just short enough to have a little it grab with needle nose pliers. Everything has got so expensive, if you can reuse old fittings it could save you some money. I am glad you have a water source that you can use. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing. I think the channel may have been "got to learn"

[@Magutz]

You're absolutely correct, things have gotten expensive and saving a little here in there helps. Thank you for the tip, I'll put it into practice.

[@travisroyer7113]

Those new nozzles should definitely help you out! But look into getting a Midnite Classic 250 charge controller, your efficiency could more than double if the Max PowerPoint of your Hydro is significantly more than 12V. An easy way to figure that out is to unhook it from your batteries and check your free spin voltage, somewhere around 40 to 50% of that voltage is your max power. if you drag it down too far from that, you will simply lose your efficiency.

[@Magutz]

That is a great point and the Midnite Classic seems to be the best choice. I still have a lot of other crazy ideas to try out, but an MPPT charge controller should be a main priority. Thanks for your advice.

[@udos46]

you have to test it by connecting it to the pipeline; a nice cylindrical jet must come out for at least 30 cm it's fine from 6 litres/second but.. the first series made, for me they spent too little time in the mold before opening it and the consequence there are some shrinkages, that the conical pin does not remain perfectly in the center you can also put in the outlet cap, if you find it, a ceramic eyelet used in weaving or spinning, of an appropriate diameter Textile-Ceramic-Eyelets-Alumina-ceramic-eyelet-for-Wire-Guide_

[@Magutz]

I only have 2 liters/second capacity. I also have done some tests on the adjustable nozzles already and will be posting those results in a week or so. Thank you for your information and quick reply.

[@johnbeattie9561]

Good Morning and Merry Christmas. I can't help but feel your starving the turbine with those small pipes. If I remember right those adjustable jets can push 4lt per second. Mine average around 2.5lt as I only have 34psi standing. I lose around 2psi per jet when open. When I first built my hydro I used 100mm penstock then dropped at the turbine to 90mm then 63mm then 50mm which was fitted to the jets (same jets as your adjustable blue/red ones) I can't remember the exact figures but I removed the 50mm pipes and connected a 63mm flexi hoes direct to the jet using a 63mm stepdown which gave me better flow and more power. It really is a trial and error kind of thing to get the best out of the water you have but it is great fun trying. Your definitely rubbing/hitting something on the inside you can hear it getting faster as your turbine start to spin and for it lock up solid like that.

[@Magutz]

Great peace of information you've giving me. Thank you and Season's Greetings to you and your family as well.

[@udos46]

For every 90 degree bend in the header pipe, approximately 15% of flow rate is lost. For every 45 degrees you lose 8%. The generator has a built-in 90 degree turn making it inefficient for that volume and flow rate of that stream! They look like globe valves and probably reduce flow by 10% each.

[@tortelini222]

Nice projects....:) thank you for your videos....I love to see how housings of pelton runer increases or decreases on power productions.... Diferent shapes and diferent free space from peton to houseing...id love to see differend reciffier how they compare to each other on efficiency (smaller, biger amps, voltage)... :)

[@Magutz]

I enjoy doing them, lots more to come. I will take your request into consideration. Thank you for posting.

[@tortelini222]

@@Magutz thanks, super :)... reciffier has bad efficiency i think about 80% and pelton and generator about 80% so together there are big losses...

[@HOWBOUTTASHORYUKEN]

The hoses/tubes having 90 degree angles will sap power as well. You’ll want to smooth that out as you’re restricting flow

[@Magutz]

Yes, you are totally right but it is negligible on a 1.5" pipe at 30 GPM. I will do some actual comparisons in the future. Thanks for posting.

[@riigel]

cant wait for the next one!

[@Magutz]

During the winter I have a little extra time so you won't have to wait long, next one will be posted first thing Friday morning. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pquneKFndt-Sgrc

[@chrisdaniel1339]

I am curious as to why the lines to each jet are so small, typically 2" diameter is used to each jet. That grinding noise was not good, it sounds like the rotor is touching the stator or the bearings are not in alignment.

[@Magutz]

Yes you are right, everyone uses large diameter feed lines, I wanted to see what the losses would be. I'm still working on it and will return to this prototype for comparison. The grinding noise turned out to be the clearance between the generator shaft and the housing. Thanks for posting.

[@chrisdaniel1339]

@@Magutz When I saw your six sided housing I thought you were going to make a six jet Pelton turbine similar to industrial size Peltons. Good to hear the grinding noise was not a stator/rotor clearance issue.

[@Magutz]

@@chrisdaniel1339 I just may try that in the future to see if I can get 300 watts using six 3/4" water line feeds. Thanks.

[@udos46]

I advise you to try your double adjustable ones first, if they spray straight... there are two plastic injection points which are also made to be able to thread and put a pressure gauge they are not made for low consumption because they spray crookedly you can insert a 3D printed insert inside to reduce the exit diameter I have some videos on this channel with my nik good work

[@Magutz]

That's a good observation. Making an insert is a great idea. What is the flow rate range for these adjustable nozzles? I'm currently running at 110 LPM.

[@Jkauppa]

What's with the pelton wheels, you could be using (open) tesla turbines. Easy to diy from metal. Also vertical bushings as bearings instead of ball bearings.

[@Magutz]

My understanding of Tesla turbines is that they are only about 60% efficient, unlike the Pelton and Turgo which are close to 90% efficient.. But that would be a good project that I'll be trying in the future. Thanks for the idea.

[@Jkauppa]

@@Magutz if you inspect an open tesla turbine and compare to a pelton, what do you observe? Very same type of operation, and I think the usual statements are not correct. Avoid marketing statements. And motivations.

[@Magutz]

@@Jkauppa I'll start working on a prototype and put it to the test. I will be watching your videos on the subject. Any other good sources you can point me to?

[@Jkauppa]

@@Magutz no, just an idea, most important part its easy to build diy from metal. Not as complex as any other turbine. Other aspects are secondary issues, including the efficiency. Which should be fine.

[@Jkauppa]

@@Magutz no welding required, just drilling and cutting sheet metal with stainless rivets.

[@MarkRose1337]

If you're expecting to get about 400 watts, and have about 44 meter of head (63 PSI), I'm guessing your available flow is about 1.1 liter per second or 20 GPM? At that flow, your head loss due to friction in a 2 inch PVC pipe 950 meters long (as you mention in the comments) should only be 13%. Not the worst! It's true a 3" pipe would nearly eliminate the head loss due to friction, but it may not be worth the money. Cutting your flow in half with a second 2 inch pipe would lower your loss to just 4%. I suspect the tight clearance around the motor was causing much of your loss as well as the narrow blue pipe. Plus jets being misaligned can greatly reduce your power output. The lack of an MPPT may also contribute to losses. Thought MPPTs work most effectively if their input voltage is 30+% higher than the output voltage. If your turbine is designed for 12 volts it may not work that effectively with an MPPT to charge a 12 volt battery. Or at least I'd look for a unit designed to boost voltage, which the Midnite Classic is not. That said, the MPPT of a impulse turbine is half the water flow, and if you were boosting your voltage over 12 volts, you likely have a turbine capable of generating power well above 12 volts, so it will probably work. What is the design voltage of your turbine? I look forward to your future experiments!

[@Magutz]

I have available a minimum of 3 LPS at any given time during the year. I totally agree that the effort and cost of going with a 3" may not be worth it. The generator shaft friction loss did not turn out to be a major factor as you will see on my next tests. I believe that your MPPT point is where most of the losses are. My PMA specs are 1000 watts/12V/1000 RPM and may do well with one of those chargers. See my free spin test here... kzbin.infoXhgzCPD9408 (I was posting this for you but I see you already saw it before I was able to fix the #short) Thank you for your detailed analysis and thoughts.

[@MarkRose1337]

@@Magutz Ah, with 3 LPS then 3" is definitely worth it! You might even want to go with 4" if you can install a second turbine for use during high flow times. That would be good for 6 LPS (which should yield over 2 kW).

[@roosenlodewijkwiggers4594]

Thank you for the update on your project! You give the best advice on the end: if you go hydro, spend the majority of the money on the penstock and go as large of a diameter as the budget allows. Don't be discouraged by the 'low' power numbers, just keep digging where the biggest losses are. My bet is that the big pvc tube you had on together with the tunable nozzle will give the best performance. Gradual diameter reduction is key not loosing all the pressure. Also having the angle correct can make big difference. Kris has gained substantial gains by tuning angles (kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6qtgnammsiIsJY)

[@Magutz]

Your encouragement is well appreciated. I follow Kris and he's been a great help, I'll keep at it until we get it right. Thanks for your advice.

[@udos46]

@@Magutz cristof48 youtube

[@udos46]

youtube.com/@HoffmannFreeEnergy

[@chrisrhodes5464]

You need to replace the bearings in it before you screw up the stater in it

[@Magutz]

It turned out to be the clearance between the turbine shaft and the housing. The bearings were fine. Thanks for posting.

[@arvinsupetran8844]

Add more 2 inch pipe. See the Head lost? Thats equivalent to system power lost. There's more way to get rid of that head lost by making a deeper forebay tank that help water push through pipe opening

[@Magutz]

A forebay would be useful if I needed more flow. My greatest power loss is pipe friction. The biggest problem I'm facing is the 950 meters to the collection box. Adding more 2 inch pipe it's a good idea, I plan on running a new 3" penstock in the future. Thanks for your input.

[@dutchglobetrotter6464]

Subbed!

[@Magutz]

I'm sorry, I don't understand your comment. The subtitles (CC) work, if that's what you were referring to. Please clarify, thanks.

[@daviddavids2884]

information you are using very SMALL jets. and, i suspect that the Nominal Flow rate is LOW. a low nominal flow rate equals less Watts available. power comes from the MASS of falling water, not from psi. conclusion: a low flow rate equals Less total available watts. your site analysis should TELL you that. losses could be reduced by correcting the plumbing mistakes. d

[@Magutz]

The current flow rate is over 40 GPM. It is a learn in progress operation and will be improving as I go. The biggest problem is the narrow 2" water line I ran but it will be sufficient as my test bench. Thanks for posting.

[@udos46]

HXCONTROLLER MPPT 230VDC 40A 60A 80A is perfekt

[@Magutz]

Yes, I was thinking of the MidNite Classic 250. Thanks.

[@jyj8552]

노즐로 연결되는 호수가 너무 사이즈가 작아요,, 마찰손이 증하하여 효율이 급격히 떨어집니다

[@Magutz]

나는 더 큰 호스를 달았지만 나아지지 않았습니다. 내 둥지 비디오에서 더 큰 호스와 노즐을 테스트할 예정입니다. 게시해 주셔서 감사합니다.

[@daviddavids2884]

11:56 the use of ninety-degree bends in plumbing to the jets should be AVOIDED. you should LOOK inside yer ball valves and determine whether each one is actually RESTRICTING flow, when open.!!!

[@Magutz]

That was a tight spot for that test, the other 2 had straight, though very narrow lines. I have a 1.5" flexible line for my next tests. The ball valves are not too bad, but I'll mike them up to see how much they are restricting vs the line, good observation. Thanks for your input.

[@daviddavids2884]

:45 this is a not-well-designed, High-loss manifold..

[@Magutz]

I totally agree, there's way too much flow restriction. I just wanted to try it out to have a point of reference.

[@steb430]

What a goon, this guy should be watching utube videos rather than making them!

[@samdowdall5232]

what an insightful reply. I'll watch your videos for some reference on how he could have done better.... Oh wait you don't have any.

[@Magutz]

I make these videos because I enjoy tinkering around and have the time and the funds to do so. I definitely do not make them to impress useless humans. How about you? Just a bully with nothing better to do? Either way, thanks for your feedback.

[@steb430]

@@Magutz Sorry if I come across as a bully but I've watched loads of videos on off-grid subjects and have also studied electronics, engineering, maths n physics. What gets my goat is watching videos of people trying to teach what they haven't got a clue about themselves, the blind leading the blind. In your first setup you make such fundamental mistakes it makes me wonder if you have studied the subject at all, hydro has been going on for many years and there's plenty of data and videos available free

[@Magutz]

@@steb430 I have never claimed to be an expert and I'm just simply showing my work for those that may be interested. I can understand your frustration, but I have never seen any videos of anyone testing the limits of nozzle restrictions, comparing different runners or generators. I myself am a retired electrical engineer and understand one or two things about the subject. Thanks for your clarification.

[@minglim-pollard1167]

Have you ever worked with real men or ever undertaken and completed a project on your own?