Mid Engine Cars - RWD vs AWD

[@nicolasdibari6888]

One of the things I love about your videos is that you don't have an intro. You just get right into the topic, give us the information we want/need, and you seem to enjoy yourself! So keep it up! I've learned so much from these videos, I question why I'm even going to school.

[@EngineeringExplained]

nicolas dibari Thanks, glad you enjoy the simplicity and to-the-point nature of my videos. Stay in school!

[@zacp6339]

@@EngineeringExplained can you explain whether a mid engine has to be behind the driver? I keep getting in this argument...

[@AlastorTheNPDemon]

Damn, I was going to create the Zonda Civic!

[@nimblemotorsports]

I'd really like to see you explain the pros and cons of a mid-engine car with transverse (Pontiac Fiero, MR2) setup, vs longitudinal (Boxster, Ford GT). I've thought the longitudinal keeps the weight more centered, but then it twists the car when it accelerates, whereas traverse wants to lift the front for better traction. Can you help explain?

[@duelcard1391]

yes, this is exactly what I'm researching right now.

[@Shadow1986]

transverse is more compact with less drivetrian loss and weight, though it limits how far forward you can place the motor

[@3248934]

AWD would be resolved with electric motors on the front wheels. So no driveshaft to the front. The new Honda NSX will use this configuration.

[@jackp-j1041]

Bro can I borrow your tima machine?

[@hightiernub1313]

How did you know!?

[@Sunny2456-]

The Saab engineers said themselves that having more than 250 hp going to your front wheels is too much anyway...Imagine a 400hp mid engined supercar that's actually fwd. Wheelspin all day long, and you'll end up either going nowhere, or in a ditch. Great video man, keep it up ^.^

[@Fluegelkran]

That's the reason why modern hot hatches (like Corsa VXR, Leon Cupra R, Focus RS500 etc.) need to have clever electronic front differentials. They all have 270+ HP and suffer from torque steering.

[@vintageman91]

Hahahaha well that would just be a stupid layout :P

[@SI0AX]

MC Taipan Imagine the opposite of FR. RF (Rear Engine - Front Wheel Drive) with a V-6 Turbo like 500+ HP. Now that would be burnout paradise. lol

[@vintageman91]

hahaha yes well i searched for a while ago for cars with rear engine and FWD and there was a rare type of smaller buss that had it. 1 rear wheel and 2 front wheels with steering in the back.

[@vintageman91]

Also there are a few cars that has rear-mid engine and 4-5 seats. Lamborghini got one nad Ferarri got one. The engine is probably mounted transversely.

[@Unb3arablePain]

Poor Cayman. It's really the best sports car in terms of performance form Porsche, but they'll never give it enough power to beat the 911.

[@11jet1331]

Tharee MaahthePuddi Cayman is mid engine, 911 is rear engine.

[@jerri0401]

Tharee MaahthePuddi 911 has a bigger engine. base engine is 2,7liter, up to 3.4liter. 911 has a 3.4 up to 3.8 liter

[@EngineeringExplained]

Nicktrance1 And the GT4 is coming! Should be awesome!

[@bryankendall7068]

Tharee MaahthePuddi It's not a chip, just different ECU tuning. Perhaps with an aftermarket ECU tune, (sometimes called a chip) the 3.4L cayman engine can reach 911 power figures.

[@SideWays8Productions]

Bryan Kendall Not reliably. The Cayman is cheaper than a 911 not just because it's slower, but the materials used to build the transmission, clutch, drivetrain, bottom end of the engine, etc are weaker and cheaper. Smaller injectors, fuel rails,lower compression pistons, smaller valves and cams, even with an ECU tune, the engine won't be able to keep up. There's only so much fuel you can add to atmospheric pressure.

[@BobTheHatKing]

can you do a video on RMR vs FMR? thanks

[@AutodromoF1]

The 06-11 civic si is the closest car I've seen to a mid engine front wheel drive layout. It's still very much a FF, but Honda did move the engine as far back as they could. Changing the spark plugs on this car requires the removal of the plastic trim underneath the windshield, and a big metal piece underneath that (strut brace?). That's how far back it is.

[@redmanhigh]

You also have front-mid engine setup. Setup wich allows for the the benefits that you explained, but as a plus you get more comfortable ride, a proper boot, a GT car.

[@peterscott4597]

Excellent video. You answered by curiosity about mid engine vehicle exactly they I want with the pros and con illustration: Thanks 👍

[@vintageman91]

There is 2 different alternatives of mid engine, the other is front-mid but when you talk about mid engines than its probably about rear-mid. The first preformance car to use mid engine and 4wd was the 80s rally car named Peugeot 205 t16. There is actually cars with mid engines and 4 seats but its very unusual. Ferarri made such a car and so did lamborghini.

[@Mladjasmilic]

Mid engined front wheel drive car - Renault 4 . Mid engined turbocharged RWD 4 seater - Tata Nano and Mitsubishi i kei car .

[@johndaugherty3544]

Hello! I'm wondering if there was anyway you could explain benefits (if any) to a mid engine front wheel drive car (I'm familiar with the Renaults that did it and a few others as well). To my knowledge, the most current and only available car with this in the USA/North America was the Scion (Toyota) iQ where the differential was placed in front of the engine and much of the front suspension was allowed to increase to almost 8° caster and much of the engine was behind the front strut towers. Thank you for your time and I hope, future answer!

[@thadeucity]

It is a bizarre question, but it is a possible concept to make a AWD mid engine car with a normal transversely mounted engine and its respective gearbox? How i think it could work: - You pace the engine longitudinally mounted at the rear so your FF gearbox differential is pointing to the front and the back of the vehicle. - You now place a short drive-shaft going to the rear and a RWD differential to move the Rear wheels. - For the front wheels you place a longer drive-shaft on the other side of the gearbox differential leading to another RWD differential at the front of the vehicle, but before you link the shaft to the differential you invert the rotation with a small gear system. I had this idea to make a 4x4 weekend off-road vehicle with a cheap engine.

[@waatevanhuizen8085]

Will you also do a video on rearengined cars, like the 911 and some more classic cars.

[@EngineeringExplained]

Yep.

[@waatevanhuizen8085]

Thank you:)

[@rushking19]

Engineering Explained Do you know that the rx7 fd and honda s2000 is technically mid engine because there engines are behind the front axle,so it's inbetween the front and rear axle so it's mid engine

[@nickfs442]

you have the best automotive informative videos. you make great content for your viewers. please keep up the good work.

[@EngineeringExplained]

nickfs442 Thanks, no plans on stopping!

[@TyinAlaska]

I love this episode, but how? What are the components, and how do they work?

[@andypatterson6847]

very well spoken quick factual and to the point made me subscribe to this channel

[@TrungTheMaker]

with a mid engine awd car would most of the power be transferred to the rear wheels, and what would it drive like if that is the case?

[@swayingGrass]

What about transverse vs longitudinal engine? And the multi-link suspension I've requested a couple of times?? T_T Also, since now you have a subaru with boxer engine, can you explain the lubrication? I don't understand how it works since you can't use gravity to return the oil to the pan (at least for piston ring/cylinder lub).

[@JS-nt3cn]

Transverse vs Longitudinal: Transverse are engines installed parallel to the vehicle longitude line (imagine center line running from the front to back). This is the direction most FWD cars have their engines. Think/google Honda Civic. Longitudinal is easy. These are engines that have their outputs along the longitude of the vehicle. This is the orientation most Front-engine RWD vehicles are mounted. Think/google V8 muscle cars, but this also applies to MR or RR cars like the Caymen and 911, and pretty much every super/hypercar in the world - where you will see the runners and exhaust running parallel with the longitude of the vehicle. Which is better? No such thing, really. It depends entirely on application, fitment, and feasibility. Transverse engines can only be as long as the vehicle can afford to have the engine bay be wide. Multi-link suspension: Means exactly what it sounds like. It is a suspension that relies on multiple links to do its job. There is no such thing as a set pattern or group of specific benefits/cons, as the different variations in the number of, location of, and the physically attributes of the linkages themselves all dictate very different behaviors. www.autoevolution.com/news/how-multi-link-suspension-works-7804.html Boxer engine design returns oil from the cylinder to the sump primarily the same way other engines do - and it's not by gravity. It's by the piston's lowest rings, the oil rings. Their purpose is more or less scraping oil off the cylinder wall during "down" strokes (inward, in the case of a flat/boxer) or intake & power strokes, keeping a certain amount to keep the wall lubricated, but preventing excess from entering the combustion chamber. Once the oil's been scraped inward, gravity then pulls it down to the sump, usually having to pass a windage tray and the like on the way.

[@vintageman91]

Joe Smathers One thing that is good with transverse mid engines is that it gives the car shorter wheelbase like the Lancia stratos with its mid mounted v6 from Ferarri dino.

[@jowflow2]

Hey Jason, if I can't afford a STi, which car would u get? Civic Si, Golf GTi,or Scion FRS? Just open for suggestions.

[@EngineeringExplained]

Of those choices I'd probably go with the FR-S since it's RWD and I believe it's the lightest. But test drive them and see which one you prefer. :)

[@skaargan]

fr-s, please go for fr-s

[@biomolecologo]

I think it's time for a video about mid engine with the engine in front of the passengers (a lot of high end sports car use this configuration).

[@chrisw5738]

To what extent does AWD have slower braking because it’s heavier, despite having greater grip/traction because it is AWD?

[@hypershadow5g]

Could you do front mid engines at some point? While the principle is the same as rear mids, theyre still different designs that can be pretty popular with performance cars

[@EngineeringExplained]

+hypershadow5g I've combined the two here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a6GXf5yOaaZrntk

[@hypershadow5g]

+Engineering Explained Oh cool thanks, I missed that part. Thanks for all your videos btw, they're all really simple and informative

[@lookanlike2]

Question. How exactly does manual transmission (stick shift, not those tedious paddle-shifters) work on mid-engine and rear-engine cars? Can we get a video explaining the parts of how it functions?

[@alohatigers1199]

If the AWD uses 4 wheels to drive & brake, is it possible to remove the brake on just the front tires? Because it’s a 2 seater, What if you expand the length just a little and minimize the size of the hood?

[@sentinelcheese3420]

Actually, there is a car with mid engine front wheel drive layout. Google it. It's some kind of weird rear wheel steering mid engined van or bus or an MPV whatever you wanna call it.

[@sentinelcheese3420]

It's called the Dymaxion car in case anyone is wondering.

[@Subflower19]

Thank you! that was super informative

[@Omeax3GS]

is it true mid engine cars have a problem when you brake, the front end of it gains all the force upon it, while the back becomes nearly weightless?

[@FarmYardGaming]

Are there any cars that DO go mid-engined FWD? Haven't found any... yet

[@stevenswm9844]

Nice T-Shirt! :)

[@santanat.7206]

Can you drift a mid engine rwd?

[@ferreira94a]

ofcourse, all ferraris have this layout.

[@Abhishek-150]

You can but once it's start spinning.. It will go out of control with in no time..

[@iBestuck]

Nice explanation. Does the engine has to be behind the driver to be considered mid-engine though? Isn't something like the SLS also a mid-engine car?

[@TheFlacker99]

You're talking about front-midship; when the engine is in front of the driver but near or in the middle of the vehicle.

[@EngineeringExplained]

Technically it just has to be between the two axles, but it's common to refer to mid engines as mounting in front of the rear axle.

[@elwulfo666]

but in the end you're right. cars like the sls or the lfa are mid engined as their engine isn't located on the front axle as in normal front engine cars, but behind it and therefore between the axles. it has the disadvantage that it also limits the passenger space if you don't want to build a 90 meter long front end. this is one of the reasons why old audi rs cars had their engines so far in the front which made them understeer.

[@Finstahy]

How would the drivetrain be setup in a manual car with a mid engine and rear wheel drive? Are the clutch and gearbox in front of the engine so that the gearbox is still underneath the stickshift and the drivetrain just turns around somewhere either in the gearbox or with an extra pair of gears? Or are the clutch and gearbox behind the engine going straight to the rear axle? If so, how does the stickshift connect to the gearbox?

[@TimVogel87]

I've got a manual, mid engined RWD car (MG F). The gearbox and clutch are in the back with the engine. The gear selector has links/cables running from the cabin to the back to operate it. Also, the radiator is in the front with coolant pipes running underneath the car to the back. Sounds like a hassle but it's pretty clever. And then again the exhaust setup is a lot shorter compared to a front engined car. A big downside is indeed access to the engine bay (you don't just simply pop the hood :) )

[@Whizzly602]

Is there any difference at all between AWD & 4WD???

[@UnpopularGoblin]

If my not so good car knowledge is good I think AWD is active all the time and 4WD you can choose when to activate it like when scaling a incline.

[@Whizzly602]

UnpopularGoblin ALright, yeah. I was sorta thinking the same thing but someone was telling me that I was wrong soooo yeah lol thx!

[@ABui06]

If we assume that your car has four wheels on the floor, then no, there is no difference. But for something like the Mercedes 6 x 6, all wheel drive (AWD) will mean something different than four wheel drive (4WD).

[@ABui06]

UnpopularGoblin I believe full-time vs. part-time AWD is a different matter entirely.

[@Paulplays06]

awd has a center diff. 4wd has a transfer case. they are both forms of 4x4, meaning 4 out of 4 wheels can get power. thats not the only reason but it is one

[@louisbabycos106]

Question how would you make an AWD Fiero and or Toyota mr2?

[@Malficion]

I'm still try8ng to figure out where the transmission and differential goes in a mid engine...

[@sarmatiancougar7556]

The Blocker from Flatout 2 was a mid engine FWD car. And that thing was okay.

[@Afterburner991]

Aren't AWDs also more stable in the corners? And by that i mean no excessive over- or understeer.

[@banddude121]

Tend to understeer due to the weight up front.

[@banddude121]

Roclee612 Yes they do. See Gallardo, Aventador, R8, and Huracan.

[@Afterburner991]

Porsche Curves i've seen/read some reviews about those cars, haven't heard anyone mention that they understeer.

[@banddude121]

Afterburner991 You apparently haven't read enough then. jalopnik.com/is-the-lamborghini-huracan-just-an-understeering-audi-f-1625466205 www.carscoops.com/2014/08/lamborghini-huracan-gets-bad-review.html

[@Afterburner991]

Thanks, i'll check it out, but that is one review. And what's enough btw? I should have looked at reviews until i found one that says it understeers?

[@Kbuilds7]

So how exactly does the Honda s2000 work with its mid engine

[@pao44445]

I hate every time the rear lose traction and spin, but it hardly happen with AWD ( R8, Huracan ) Mainly 650s ( 488 is so well balance ) PS. Assetto Corsa

[@bevanjonsson2284]

Nissan 300zx. 2+2 version for extra room in the rear. Rip out the back seats. VR38DETT in a mid-engine config and also AWD. Can it be done?

[@HighMagnitudeGT]

very informative video as always #muchlearned

[@196hasnain]

what about twin engine cars? are they legal? are they better than a more powerful engine? and are they even worth it?

[@edge21str]

From an engineer's point of view they probably don't make a whole lot of sense, which is why you don't see any in motorsports. It's double the weight, they are more complicated, don't leave any room for a boot and generally take away a lot more space.

[@Haffa14]

Electric cars will make use of it i guess. There is a few custum builds with twin engine out there. Jay Leno had a mini on his show. I advise you to check it out.

[@kristenburnout1]

There was an old racing car called the Alfa Romeo Bimotore which had one engine in the front and one in the rear. And they both drove the rear wheels, which were reduced to nothing but a rim after a short while, because of the enormous torque.

[@SuperFunkmachine]

There legal here in the uk. Most twin engine cars brake down in to two types: A) Linked engines Two or more engines are linked up, often just with constant mesh gears This is the easy way to do it as your just making one massive engine. B) Separate engines You don't link the engines togeater and have each engine power it's end of the car. This do need more work as you'll need a second set of controls but it's not all that hard. It is not as hard as it first seems, both engines will still push even if there power out puts are different and separate engined cars can just use an auto box to get a little slippage.

[@azalru]

Yeah, P85D Tesla Model S has a motor front and back with no driveshaft.

[@jojothepirate87]

As an MK1 MR2 owner I would like to add that the way the car feels and responds to driver input is way different than a front engine car responds. I don't like driving FR cars anymore :(

[@SrTuX]

snap oversteer!

[@jojothepirate87]

It is mostly a myth. I have tried very hard to cause snap oversteer and I have not managed to do it yet. I have lost control of the rear but I have managed to regain it everytime. Like he said in the video when you finally do lose control of the rear end in a mid-engine car it is harder to get it back but it isn't impossible. I blame all the snap oversteer hype on lack of driving ability.

[@SteaM992]

why don t you like FR anymore then?

[@jojothepirate87]

Andrei Tanasescu Nothing else I have driven feels the same as the MR2. The cars feels like it is glued to the ground. Granted I have not had a chance to drive a lot of performance FR cars in a while. I still like a lot of FR cars and plan on buying one sometime soon(MK2 or MK3 Supra or an FB or FC RX7).

[@jojothepirate87]

Tharee MaahthePuddi FR is Front engine Rear wheel drive. The MR in MR2 is Mid engine Rear wheel drive.

[@yangyuan1224]

Why mid engine affordable sports car nearly extinct :(

[@FBFerran]

the new paugeot dakar rally car is actually mid engined fwd, i don't get it either..... Engineering Explained

[@FBFerran]

oh, that makes more sense, i remember reading somewhere that the 2008DKR was Mid-Engined Front wheel drive and i was like "wtf?" thanks for the info ;)

[@JS-nt3cn]

Peugeot/Redbull designed the 2008DKR as Mid RWD so that they could empty the space up front for the front wheels. That's probably where you got confused. It allows more tricks to be pulled with the suspension geometry, more travel, and technically would allow allow the "truck" to have as much approach angle (the maximum angle between the bottom of the front tires and the edge of an object being driven towards) as they wanted.

[@brendanbenoit789]

an

[@snaaail]

First thumbs up!

[@omarwahbi8788]

so why Bugatti is 4wd ? Is it because​ of its huge horse power ? +engineeringexplained

[@oldfashionedwrx3574]

great vid

[@TrichbeeT]

I had my nsx on Forza fwd...kind of fun to drive but useless XD!

[@postmortemspasm]

Most forklifts are mid/rear engine front wheel drive.. Just sayin...

[@EngineeringExplained]

They also are rear wheel steering.

[@coscorrodrift]

If I'm not mistaken Jason used to work in a forklift factory, so he probably knows what's up.

[@postmortemspasm]

I dont remember saying they werent rear wheel steer?