Midi Controllers ARE NOT getting better…Here’s Why! |Novation Launchkey MK4 Vs Arturia Keylab MK3

[@Johnmike]

Get Peculiar Sounds here: gospelproducers.com/product/doobie-powells-peculiar-sounds-v2-vst-au-aax-plug-in/ Consider supporting the channel by using our affiliate links if you decide to purchase! Zzounds: Launchkey MK4: www.zzounds.com/a--3980668/item--NOVLNCHKEY49MK4?siid=359837 Keylab MK3: www.zzounds.com/a--3980668/ Sweetwater: Keylab MK3: sweetwater.sjv.io/4P3oD0 Launchkey MK4: sweetwater.sjv.io/AWr2eK Amazon: Keylab MK3 www.amazon.com/dp/B0D9DMT3LV/ref=cm_sw_r_as_gl_api_gl_i_RP04EAS31N08FE3035V2?linkCode=ml2&tag=ynamicsmusi0c-20 Launchkey MK4 amzn.to/3Z27ibK Not Famous But Fruitful Hoodie: amzn.to/3K7V6yL

[@NeonPLotus]

@@Johnmike how you feel about midi controllers is how I have always felt. I almost went to studio logic until Nektar finally upped their game, so I stuck with my panorama P6 I’m also having this same exact problem with the new SofTube Console 1 Mk3 Advertising and reviews for it are SATURATING all the internet and KZbin, but I can barely find anything about the icon pro audio P1-M, for example I see a lot about the V1-M (the direct competitor to the console 1, in my opinion), but even then nothing in comparison to softube and how there’s clearly been money spent to saturate The information streams That having been said, I respect they softube is still privately owned, and not swooped up by hedge funds, like everyone else (Arturia and native instruments, as well as plugin alliance are now hedge fund owned)

[@robinsss]

@@Johnmike the controllers aren't very different from one another but they provide what many musicians want That's the most important part

[@robinsss]

The controllers aren't very different from one another but they provide what most musicians want That's the most important part

[@nxumalo]

In my opinion I wish midi controllers should have built in audio interface and make it a standard. Can you imagine SL88 Studio or NI Kontrol S88 Mk3 with 96k 24 bit audio interface? That could change the game.

[@blastofo]

As a decades long guitarist getting into synths and midi controllers, i'm not jaded like veteran players. So i'm enamored with what midi controllers can do. My macbook, 61 key midi keyboard, arturia v collection, pigments, logic pro, was less than i've paid for one guitar. And the possibilities with this setup is limitless.

[@smoothsavage2870]

As a fellow guitarist, just letting you know, you can get the Fishman Triple Play midi controller to play polyphonic MIDI from your guitar.

[@djkanyon]

how much exactly you've paid for one guitar?.... 6 grands?

[@blastofo]

@@djkanyon My Gibson Les Paul Classic was $2k. My midi controller $270, logic pro $200, analog v collection 8 $60, pigments $100, and my macbook $1k, but I already had the laptop before this.

[@djkanyon]

@@blastofo ahh, excluding the laptop, got it!

[@ilovegoogleandyoutube]

Lol. That's not a great example, comparing the price of a Gibson Les Paul with this stuff. You can get a pretty good guitar for 300 quid. But you could probably go even cheaper with this, if you avoid apple completely, buy cheaper MIDI controllers and use free software.

[@Smooveg25]

I just want a MIDI keyboard with the Fatar keybed with an affordable price. I don’t need bells and whistles and trinkets…

[@Pacman1ac]

Studiologic Numa Compact 2...not very affordable, but it has a Fatar TP/9, it's simple and it's a bit cheaper than the current flagship controllers. This, together with the forthcoming Behringer's BCR32 controller would make a great pair. Don't you agree?

[@bassbassbasser]

Get a Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S61 or S49 MK2. NI sells their b-stock really cheap on reverb.

[@MaximizedAction]

@@Smooveg25 there’s Studiologic made by the Fatar company itself, but I myself am missing the variation in keysized. No Studiologic with 49 keys. It’s a weird market for controllers

[@kevinclayborn7830]

Precisely!

[@PeeranatThongyotee]

@@Pacman1ac I'm also using numa compact 2 as my main rig for live perform since it has built in audio interface output , which is good enough for live.

[@NyakzOTSD]

Lets take it one step further... Plugins have peaked to! There is nothing new being produced. Just variations of what already exist

[@Johnmike]

The whole industry has peaked…I’ll probably do a video on that soon!

[@Emily_M81]

​@@Johnmike A hot plugin takes off, and suddenly everyone is copying it and new companies are copying it. LoFi plugins, granular plugins, wavetable synths, etc. It's boring out there at times.

[@2112jonr]

True.

[@d.j.divinedivineproduction8375]

@@Johnmike 🤣 you are right

[@sawdustcrypto3987]

​@@JohnmikeI agree! , But it's not necessarily a bad thing. There are so many tools and ways to manipulate audio available to us that you could spend a lifetime learning everything. We should just take the tools we have and focus on using them creatively to make new music. Imo, I hope the focus shifts to being creative musically (not with making new tools)

[@ToneCabinet]

John Mike!! Thanks for the video. I'm actually in the market right NOW, for my first midi board, so this was sound advice at the perfect time. 👍🏾

[@exilecgaming]

I am about to buy my first MIDI keyboard and I'm glad I came across your channel. This is as real as it gets.

[@mvsmsx]

Agree 100%. I work as a writer for a large music retailer (170M/y), and I'm the de facto guy for keyboards, synths, MIDI-keyboards 'n such. And for over a decade I'm more or less writing the same things, and I see the same development patterns. First they start with a very basic model (the MK1), then the MK2 adds bluetooth MIDI, then the MK3 adds a new keybed, then the MK4 adds a new display. I mean, anyone with half a brain could've added these together in one model right from the start. But yea, everyone knows the drill. In order tot sustain business, customers need to pay up 100% for each new model for only 5% new features. It was actually shocking when a few years ago I added a fullsize 25-key MIDI keyboard to our shop. Later on I noticed there was an old Yamaha MIDI keyboard, also 25 fullsize keys, which was by then over 10 years already already. It was the same thing! Faders, pads, encoders, transport, the whole thing had the same features. It's just the colors, specific shapes and location which was different - and obviously the software that comes with it. The only somewhat new thing these days is that the traditional USB connectors get replaced by USB-C connectors. Whoop whoop! My conclusion: the companies are out of inspiration. No one tries anything new, and no one would even know anything new anyway. The evolution is complete, what else is there to add? Even worse: all these company websites look like one big marketing squirt. One really doesn't get the impression that the musical/tech guys are writing all that. It's all fancy fonts, fancy graphics (rather than normal graphics you can actually properly use in retail), fancy frames with fancy texts, but no order in this chaos at all. It takes hours to sort out what's new, just by having to dig through thick layers of nonsense. The only MIDI keyboard of interest I added recently was the Korg Keystage, because of the keybed by ASM (Hydrasynth). And before that? I wouldn't even know... the whole MPE thing was nice surrounding Roli, but I"m not even sure that vibe has aged well. I guess the Kontakt LEDs from Novation's S-series are nice, though technically I could live without. I also agree on rarely needing faders/encoders - if ever anyway. In fact, my own MIDI-controller is a Hydrasynth Deluxe, it's a great synth with a great keybed. With synths it's more or less the same thing, unfortunately. Lots of garage companies with weird expensive synths no one needs, and the traditional companies rehashing the past over and over again. They too are out of ideas. A shift of paradigm is sorely needed. New blood. New ideas.

[@Johnmike]

This is good info and perspective! Thanks for this comment!

[@wolfblaide]

The faders are useful to us composer types. Well... COULD be. Most VSTs nowadays you need more than just the mod wheel to control, which is why having faders is so good. But... the idiotic thing is for forever these keyboards usually only allow you to operate in one "mode" at a time, where you can either control the DAW, OR use the faders for CC control, not both. Basically they become useless, because the DAW and keyboard integration is still so crap. It's either proprietary or uses 30 year old integration tech. My 20 year old Roland midi controller could do this better. 😂 Almost every composer I know, therefore, has a Korg mini control 2 sitting on their keyboard for this very reason. 😂

[@vatolegato]

Someone could make a controller with a huge adjustable screen, 16 pads with Maschine-like sensitivity and MPE, keys with MPE, faders, knobs, lots of connectivity, good build quality, top quality DAW control, ability to load VST's within the midi controller by adding storage drives that install the VSTs on them, etc. This would be my dream midi controller, but no one has ever done it. One company has some of the features, but are missing others, and so on.

[@mvsmsx]

@@vatolegato But that's not how companies work. To sustain their business, the regularly need to release something new. If they'd put it all into one machine, and if that machine is the ultimate machine, who would ever need the follow-up, a few years down the line? It's in *their* interest to sell *incomplete* products. So they *know* these products are incomplete. Mind you, I'm not against business practices, we all have to eat. But there was a time in for example synth history when each year (due to a sudden revolution in CPU and RAM performance) you really got a *new* synth. From mono to polyphonic, from analog to FM, from early expensive sampling to affordable sampling, from meager polyphony to large polyphony, from little sample RAM to large sample RAM. As a customer you had the impression that any new synth back then was money well spent. The problem these days is that MIDI keyboards don't really evolve anymore, and then you might wonder what the added value of a new model really is... DAW software faces the same problems, for that matter.

[@vatolegato]

@@mvsmsx That's a good point. I guess the best way to get what we want is to do it ourselves if we have that ability. But we can always just buy a customized setup. People can still make music regardless of what midi controllers they have.

[@stoccorodolfo]

Bro I liked your honesty of not selling yourself in exchange of views. You have a new follower.

[@aristotlekumpis7095]

You hit it right on the head. These companies need to focus on a really good keybed. That's all we really want. None of the bells and whistles and marketing crap.

[@TheTrinirocker]

This is what i love watching your videos, you keep it real

[@Khordmaster]

That USB C on the new Novation like finally. I have no intention on getting any midi controller without usb c at this point

[@tuneunleashed]

@@Khordmaster A USB C breaks a lot more easily though

[@potato9832]

Would be nice if they came with a separate/secondary power supply. Using on a mobile device (phone/tablet) uses up its only USB port and prevents the device from being able to charge its battery.

[@Grant82gc]

i don't like the USB c connection for live use, not enough meat on the connection for reliability

[@JayCasinoOfficial]

Why? It’s literally the same thing

[@DopamineOverload]

I happen to hate USB-C. I bent two cables right at the contact point, on complete accident... most annoyingly, with my Motu M4 interface. The design of USB-C is absolutely awful. WAY too easy to bend/break.

[@sodathief]

thank you for this. it feels the same every year, but also never what I actually want.

[@lochnes76]

I remember my first M-Audio Axiom 25 back in the day the i first discovered Ableton Live 7 from a friend. The Akai 88 with hammer keys and novation with midi exclusive for Live was avail up to now with new versions and many companies making these boards I've settled down but the novation launched mk4 is really nice, I wouldn't of known the features without y'all so i value these videos.

[@EpiphoneAP]

That's a refreshing, honest perspective. I felt lost after not playing since childhood, but I'm just going to stick with my early 2000s Yamaha till I actually understand the differences. Seems like drum pads, faders, and a bit of software is all I'm really missing. I ordered the arturia microfreak just for its weirdness factor too.

[@bLiNdEDM]

I agree about not using the faders for mixing. Thats mainly why I chose the s61 mk2 when I did. I also kept it instead of upgrading to the mk3 because it fully controls maschine. Anyway, good video - we have peaked with midi controllers lol

[@papankunci]

I still use Roland Midi Controller from 13 years ago (Roland A500 Pro) and feel content with it (most of mys synths/keys are considered vintage/very old now)... all the functions, buttons, sliders, knobs and keys responds are assigned to what i need in live gig. as much as i'm a gear addict and want new toys -- the money will go to family and other things that's currently more important.. all i want to say is, there's something rewarding with staying on and learn/keep what you have to serve you the most.. they are just TOOL after all.. the treasure and what matter most is YOU.

[@PetrolMediaInc]

I’ve had so many midi controllers over the years. In the end I went back to the first gen Arturia minilab for travel, and the Roland Fantom X6 (the keys felt the best and soo many features for midi took many midi controllers years to implement). It just works! The bonus is all the sounds internally when I need to grab something extra. have an akai mpk249 as a back up.

[@salmanesh]

Thanks for your honest review!

[@richhewes]

This video is spot on. I agree, the new iteration of midi controllers are basically the same. Great you made this video!

[@pcgambit]

Really appreciate the perspective along with the facts and other reviews. Without concise and for-real reviews on the vantage point of a music producer on products (whether they're an improvement or not) keeps the industry dependent on innovative creativity and less on re-packaging operations for squeezing cash out of loyal consumers.

[@tr33tv]

Thanks!

[@Johnmike]

Thanks so much 🙏🏾

[@AprilRoxStudios]

There needs to be a midi controller that integrates with all the major platforms like NI Kontakt, Arturia, etc. Include a large touch screen, mpe, faders on left side, knobs, drum pads, at least midi 2.0, wireless zero to low latency & after touch.

[@fruitykrueger]

@@AprilRoxStudios Poly AT at that, but for everything to work properly it’s gonna be 2K

[@dannymolns3573]

Touch screen? Why?? Maybe a decent sized screen but it doesn't need to be touch. We need about 24 pads or so, 10-12 faders and about 24 encoders. Let me sound design on the controller as if it were a synth

[@tuneunleashed]

@@AprilRoxStudios M-Audio Hammer 88 Pro was the closest thing to it but yet so FAR so as the Novation SL series if only they made an 88 key version ✋😩🤚

[@Divuar]

Zero wireless latency is physically impossible, am I wrong?

[@revp01]

Your title says it all. Reasons why I’ve just stayed with Studiologic SL88Grand (amazing keybed & 4 midi channel workflow) and Nektar P6 (great daw & midi workflow). Everything else I’ve tried is usually not as good. Was hoping someone would make a 49-61 key controller with a true waterfall keybed.

[@x-producer-b]

You hit the nail on the head... They've peaked. IMO the next evolution is for visual/physical feedback, tighter software integration, and workflow-based engineering. Something like a Streamdeck, but integrated into a Midi controller. You're correct, I've never mixed a song using faders on a keyboard MIDI controller. I have mixed songs on control surfaces before, and I prefer it over mouse and keyboard, but only because the control surface is engineered to give me all the visual feedback necessary to navigate a session. This is why products like the Ableton Push are very successful over generic pad controllers... Tight vendor-specific integration and engineering to optimize a workflow that the software offers. Ever Midi controller vendor needs to here this. If not, they'll continue to capitalize on producing cheap controllers because we keep buying them, and not demanding anything better.

[@Johnmike]

Yup

[@bassyey]

They need to add motorized faders or proper weighted keys. They aren't evolving. Do these things sell like hotcakes? Cheap guitars and bass have evolved a lot.

[@d.j.divinedivineproduction8375]

That's absolutely right. I also delved into this years ago. As an example, I bought an old Roland A 33 controller. While there are also the A30 A50 A70 and even more variants. The new stuff, other brands models, are not my favorite. I chose the A 33 because it is robust and has similar basic features and other unnecessary things are fortunately not included. I deliberately chose no LCD screen. So that this machine still works after years, if an LCD breaks down, you can no longer operate the controller. But I use software that adjusts the settings once. This controller is from 1994 !!!!! Almost 30 years old !!! And 76 keys. Robust and strong as a tank. They don't make them like that anymore these days. Simple strong electronic components on a printed circuit board. Made in Italy, yes not China :-) Manufacturers often use the basis of a previous model. Visually adapt the design and then sell it much more expensive. I knew that years ago. I even use an old Roland Super JV-1080 19'' sound module. Also from 1994. You really don't need more. Yes, you also have VST synths. But with this setup I have something robust. And yes, it still works after 30 years. It is possible that the capacitors will have to be replaced at some point if they start leaking. So think carefully. Don't be fooled. 🤣🎹🎻🎺

[@MattRid]

How refreshing is this?!! A man who speaks truth

[@MattRid]

I just got the 25 mini MK4, it’s dope it’s soo much better than the MK3! I get so fuckin distracted by new products and plugins.

[@thisisalbe]

Bro I do a lot of MIDI keyboard reviews and you are spot on....it's peaked...

[@Techisol]

I appreciate your honesty, sincerity, and loyalty to us viewers. Great Take man. 100% Correct on everything you said.

[@deltajockey]

Thank you John Mike for your genuine and honest opinion about the current state of these controllers. I've been feeling the same way for quite a long time, after purchasing many myself, always hoping for a new product with the combination of features, I think, are most useful these days, only to see incremental upgrades still lacking those features, at any price. I've always held your reviews in high regard and heartfelt, and found them to reliably reflect the real world of my own experiences. It's refreshing to get the opinion of someone who tells it like it is, rather than talk up a rehashed product as if it's ground breaking. Well done, and I wish you continued support!

[@jcchaconjr]

I totally feel you on this. I bought the Oxygen Pro 61 a few years ago pretty much out of frustration because like you said, they are pretty much the same, and NONE of the controllers on the market tick all the boxes I was looking to satisfy. It's like these companies are not listening to feedback/wishlists for the most part. Now, I will say that for the companies creating controllers for the software they produce, it might be all good because the features are typically created to complement the software features - but for the producer that uses a mix of tools, you are on your own. I won't get into the nitty gritty about who uses what keybed because at the end of the day, there aren't too many companies making keybeds, and none of these players are going to spend the money to cerate their own. It does make the pricing interesting, because that suggests that they are charging you for the electronics inside and that "free" software you're getting. FWIW, the M-Audio just basically meets my need. Honestly, it's not a "bad" controller for my needs, and it's nice that they try to cater to several DAWs, but considering that I got it for a great price (I haven't seen it drop to that same price since buying it), I guess my satisfaction level is just a little higher than if I had paid MSRP for it. But I totally agree. If someone were to drop a controller that changes the game, I pretty much guarantee that company will corner the market.

[@alsoulmusic]

As a non-keyboardist I never understood the whole idea of upgrading a keyboard because they felt pretty much the same years ago. If you really want innovation I think you have to look at MPE keyboards. That involves learning how to play with a different level of expression and they may not be for everyone. Otherwise what you already have is probably good enough.

[@edz55447]

I agree with you about the MIDI Controller market. I am a player in the budget controller market as a cheap entry into the software side of the controllers. Often, it is cheaper to catch one of the controllers on sale to access software than to purchase the software outright.

[@sotirisvarotsis5848]

There's quite a bit of room for innovation, but that depends on your use cases and particular needs. For instance, as a live gig musician what sold me into dishing the 1k for the keylab 88 mk2 was the detachable tray to create space for placing a laptop on it, the detachable transparent lectern, the relatively low weight of the device for a hammer action keybed (about 15kg), the insane amount of controls which are quite useful in a live setting, especially the 16 pads which I use to select splits/instruments layouts, and last but not least, its looks and general aesthetics which I find very appealing. I'd normally want to add ruggedness in this list, but in less than a year I had two of the keys on the keybed stop working, and now the lcd screen shows up garbled characters so that messed that last point. I couldn't care less about the Analog Lab integration, or DAW integration when I'm producing, or chords/arpegiators etc. What had me excited for the mk3 series, primarily was the large screen, as me being farsighted makes it a challenge to be able to see info on mk2's petite lcd screen without glasses. Sure, it's not an innovation (and Native Instruments already won that with its ginormous screen), but the mk3 LCD, while noticeably bigger is a letdown. Maybe they'll make it more customizable to show things the way I'd want with a future firmware upgrade, or (and that's a stretch) include an even bigger LCD in the 88 mk3. I'd still probably get it, mostly to have a backup whenever one of the two needs to go in the shop for service. As for innovations, I'd love to see new things (or things done by other manufacturers, or in other Arturia products) like: - Backlit customizable LCD screens under the pads (kinda like Stream deck does) - LCDs for knobs and sliders to display info on - Ribbon controller - Lateral key controls for vibratos (like the Osmose) - MPE / Midi 2.0 support - Waterfall keys - Level indicator light for the Mod Wheel (like they did with the Astrolab) - Attachment points underneath the controller to slide a drawer and mount your audio interface (Currently I'm doing that with velcro stickers) - USB Hub to power/charge external devices - Touchpad/trackball to either control midi, or the mouse of your USB connected computer.

[@DonnDeVoreMusic]

Akai MPK88. Had best weighted keyboard and controls for $700. Note repeat on the pads. endless encoders. Transport controls Weighs 75lbs. Love it.

[@Johnmike]

Maaaan fr fr…they had a sequel to that one planned called the “Road 88” but they never brought it to market…I tested it at namm years ago…bed felt so good! I hate they never released it

[@SimonePhoenix]

I really appreciate your video, bredren, thank you. I tend to be a bit “brand loyal”, but I’m looking hard at Arturia, I agree about the “clicky-clack” aspect of Novation’s controllers, however, I’m just a little indecisive since overall their products have never given me any issues. I’m not interested in all the bells & whistles, I just want a controller that is responsive & that the MIDI will lay down exactly what I play. Again, HUGE thanks for the video, respect. 🙏🏽

[@MrSRellz]

I’m still rocking with my Novation SL Mkii. I’ve tried a few others, but always came back to my SL MKii

[@ZombieLincoln666]

I love my mkii.

[@lehearse662]

I haven't mixed a song using the faders on a midi controller no. I did map filter controls and other sound shaping modifiers to faders and pots so I can tweak and play at the same time. You can put wet/dry fx balance on a pot, you can put filter frequency and resonance on a pot or a fader. It's fun to tweak while your playing!

[@pesto12601]

you are right on.. they ARE all the same and no one really uses these to control a DAW beyond perhaps just to start/stop and play tracks.

[@Johnmike]

Eggsactly

[@JamieR]

I think push 2 is the only one worth using to control a DAW. Too bad we can't get some midi controllers with full weighted keys instead of all the unnecessary features.

[@2112jonr]

@@JamieR You've evidently never used a Launchpad.

[@DopamineOverload]

That's why there needs to be a cool "no key" version, with lots of transport buttons (completely assignable). Like Maschine MK3's screens, encoders, the 4-way push-encoder, custom buttons, etc. It can have pads (small or none). I will never part with my Maschine MK2, MK3, Behringer X-Touch Mini, etc... for the customizability... for the functions. Make anything do what you want, pages of controls/parameters. What a wonderful thing.

[@DopamineOverload]

Always been a fan of your channel John Mike. I'm obsessed with MIDI controllers, as well. It drives me nuts that no one's yet made a non-key encoder / screen combo thing. Launchcontrol XL needs all endless encoders, and screens (or at least ONE screen like the MK4 Launchkeys). The SL MKIII should have a non-keyboard version desktop thing. The early 2000s was filled with desktop controllers and synths. BRING THEM BACK!!!!!!! I got the Launchkey Mini 37 MK4.... can't believe Components doesn't allow the encoders to be Relative (Bipolar). They only transmit as Absolute (Unipolar). Ridiculous oversight. I let Novation know, too. They need to update firmware AND Components. The REC button transmits MIDI CC117 Ch16, but the Play button does not transmit a message. Why do they keep dropping the ball? SL MK3 in Components has Relative or Absolute mode for the encoders. Circuit Tracks and Circuit Rhythm-- they offer Unipolar or Bipolar mode inside Components. If they don't offer this option, why bother putting encoders in the controller at all? They're just like a pot (min-max). They just turn 360 degrees. C'mon. They need to get on it. Arturia's editor-- flawless. NI's Controller Editor-- flawless. Even Akai can do this with their editors (Absolute/Relative). Behringer's X-Touch Mini offers all sorts of MIDI messages, too, in the editor software. They need to LISTEN. TO. US.

[@user-nu7xx7pc1d]

great video and opinion!

[@christianschoenewald]

I think the real big issue here is that the manufacturers are trying to be all things to all people all at the same time. A company like Arturia with the large array of virtual instruments that they create, should be completely aware of the idea that different virtual instruments require different controllers, it makes a big difference in the way you play an instrument. If you’re going to play a virtual organ, well, it would really be helpful to have two manuals, waterfall keys, and drawbars, or rocker switches. If you are truly going to be playing synth recreations, you need lots of knobs and sliders, you might also need a ribbon controller. If you’re going to be playing a virtual Prophet-VS, or a virtual Wavestation it’s essential to have a joystick. The types and amount of physical controllers that you have really does impact the way you play the instrument. If you try to please everyone with every unit, you’re going to wind up pleasing nobody and exciting no one. At this point, I would love to find a small company that would be interested in building custom keyboard midi controllers for me; maybe then I might actually get unique instruments that I’m excited to play my virtual instruments with.

[@Johnmike]

Same

[@JayEmII]

​@@Johnmikeagree fully.

[@furiobisotti8150]

Fully agreed. We have incredible software hammond simulations and no hammond-like controller. I would buy one immediately (there is one, but it costs like an hammond clone...)

[@theonecalledvino8165]

Because of you I bought a series of MIDI controllers for live use with MIDI modules or iPad synths. I designed some sick rigs..Thank you.

[@varitech-vfx]

The Best Video! Thanks John!

[@superdeluxified]

It all depends on your individual use case. I have the launchkey mk4 (37) and really enjoy it. I got it for the scale/chord/arp features. I submitted a feature request for a modulation feature to let a person explore related scales....and I could see pivot chords being a useful feature. These would be helpful as songwriting supports. That being said, I think a lot of people do clip/sequence-based writing these days where key changes aren't so relevant. Honestly, if notes/scales aren't critical, neither are advanced controllers.

[@axoplanet6081]

The Keylab 3 is a big fail to version 2. No real innovation here, worst upgrade of all. The Launchkey 4 is a good upgrade in my opinion. I like the new 37 key mini version, if you on the road it is great. The NI 3 is… I don‘t know, not a great upgrade but better than what Arturia did. I hope Novation nails it with a SL 4. I love my SL 3 but there are some things which could be better.

[@jamietopolski4019]

My favorite MIDI controller isn't even a MIDI controller. I use the Casio CT-S1 as a MIDI controller. Casio sells a Bluetooth adapter that allows me to pair it with my iPad and I use my iPad as the sound source. This Casio has my favorite semi-weighted action. It is responsive, very quiet (no click-clack and no bounce), and it allows me to play acoustic piano with nuance. It can run on 8 AA batteries. It has built-in speakers which are really good for practice or for playing with a friend on acoustic guitar (I run an audio cable from the headphone out on the iPad to the "aux in" on the Casio). My one wish is that it had a pitch bend and/or mod wheel.

[@sectiondrecords4580]

Thanks for this - subscribed. I have litteraly tried all except forthe new Expressive E Osmose. MPE is supposedly the new holly grail of midi but my Ensoniq SD-1/VFX-SD had MPE in 1990 and I still have it!

[@HansyPants184]

My 2009 m-audio axiom 49 was near perfect from a hw feature perspective. Cheap, faders, encoders, buttons, split-able keyboard, aftertouch, expression pedal input was my favorite, full sized 5 pins. There was a super basic LCD display that necessitated keeping the manual around. No daw integration but you could map everything up for as much or little control as you needed. I've been looking for something that isn't $$$$ that has an expression pedal input for so long. It was an amazing feature.

[@funnzie]

Yea, buying a keyboard that doesn't make any sounds for lots of money was always something difficult for me to buy. The Yamaha MX series start at $500 for a keyboard that can be used like a controller with sounds included. BUT.... i just bought a Novation SL MKIII, mainly for the sequencer, but the keybed is high quality too and full sized keys. I paid $550 for it, and I think this one is worth it. My studio is 100% hardware with no computer, I record to a 24 track SD recorder, so it should fit in nicely. I did buy a controller once before with the Arturia software, but only used it twice, I just don't want a computer in my audio studio.

[@CarrelDavis]

Thanks for posting this video! I was thinking basically the same thing as you as I’ve been looking for a new controller. I have a few old ones but wanted something new that incorporated newer tech and slicker performer features. I guess the only controller with new tech is the Korg with MIDI 2.0. Just wished it had more physical controls than knobs.

[@lostreligion1313]

Novation Remote SL 37 OG Is still (IMHO) the best midi controller ever made for Ableton Live, i just wish they would bring it out again, exactly the same but with smooth encoders & faders, decent pads an 2 big oled displays over the top just the same. 🙏

[@realtalk5347]

John Mike is right. I went and got the Roland fanton EX ^. It is standalone and works as a midi controler and has excellent DAW intergration with abelton, logic, and studio one

[@michaeloravecz5752]

For something 'new' in MIDI controllers, any opinions on MPE MIDI controllers, such as the Seaboard Rise 2? Or how MIDI 2.0 can matter?

[@RubenDari]

you are a real one for this! respect respect respect.

[@MoeThermodynamics]

Thanks for the honesty. It sure feels like they just want to sell more plastic in a new housing that makes everyone excited when the "new" features are a literal daw plugin we already have.

[@Novasoul]

Your openness about how these manufacturers set up YT influencers (to give favorable reviews) is appreciated. I've watched many of your MIDI keyboard comparison videos and was also wondering why you had stopped producing them. I feel what you said about not being inspired by the same ol' same ol' year after year, that becomes not only boring, but also discouraging. I agree that manufactures are not putting anything worth upgrading to in recent years, and in some cases downgrading their selections! It seems they are just creating these controllers that have a bit of everything as a net in hopes of capturing as much of the market as possible. But unfortunately their "new" models fail to improve previous versions especially in terms of keybeds and keys, the actual parts that make a keyboard playable! I don't believe they have peaked in terms of technology or innovation, but they are definitely not trying to spend more money for these essential and highly desired upgrades. It is unfortunate, because there clearly are several types of people wanting MIDI keyboards; Beginning producers - this is the main market of people that manufactures are going after, as they throw the entire kitchen onto a keyboard. Composers - this market seems to be served well w/ many 88 keyboard offerings all the way to the boutique$$$ level. Players & performers - the market that seems to be constantly ignored! They just want a keyboard with good action and less of the extras; Piano style or synth style w/ (poly) aftertouch depending on the musician. Instead, this group is forced to buy older used MIDI or synth keyboards to have access to these simple expected features from 15+ years ago! It's frustrating to say the least.

[@el-bov8034]

The big change and draw for me towards the Novation is the faders being moved to the left-hand side. For us right-handed players this puts expression in a much better location. Also, the Novation has more pads, and I believe they're the same sensitivty as their Launch controllers. Arturia has 12 pads with faders on the right. Also, the Novation's 61-key version comes in at 300. As someone in the market for a new controller, I'm finding the Novation to be way out in front.

[@marcusdolak6688]

In principle, you are really right. But the way Leonard Ray uses his Novation Launchkey really impressed me and motivated me to find out more about it. the combination Ableton and Launchkey is really insane Greetings from Germany❤

[@jp4751]

First time on this channel. I think you hit the nail on the head about the "reviews" and the "shills". I take any KZbinr's "reviews" with a grain of salt. It is very disingenuous to even label something a "review" when the company that sent it to you is controlling the narrative. I have seen some admit that they were asked to make "x" amount of videos, touting certain features in exchange for having the keyboard sent to them. Additionally, I have heard at least 1 in particular say that he couldn't really say a lot of negative things because then they wouldn't work with him anymore. Realistically, these videos should not even be labeled "reviews", they should be labeled as "product spotlight", "paid advertisement", etc because it is paid marketing. In reality, people are suppose to clearly disclose that they are getting the product for free in exchange for their "review", "survey", etc. Many KZbinrs don't do this, but you know it was sent to them because they have the products before launch.

[@beatz04]

Taetro at one point slipped that he was busy editing a review and then having to send it to the respective company for approval. So much for independence and "unbiased".

[@jp4751]

@@beatz04 🤔. I just don't like shilling. I am ok with "influencers" doing videos but not presenting them as unbiased "reviews", when these videos are really infomercials.

[@ilovegoogleandyoutube]

I just had a look at ricky tinez videos page yesterday, every video is just advertising a different piece of music hardware.. There's only a couple there that are actually interesting.

[@2112jonr]

Most don't have any control though. You're agreeing with his false opinion, which is not based on evidence.

[@jp4751]

@@2112jonr I am not sure what your point is. However, If an "Influencer" doesn't have control, than it's not really a "review", it is paid marketing.

[@hemlock3088]

Great points and hopefully the manufactors listen. Selling junk is probably more profitable, if one company could make a quality midi keyboard.

[@julioguerrero8849]

Hi John, great video. I cannot believe that Arturia does not offer a MIDI controller NOT for DAWs, but one specifically for virtual synths that just has a huge amount of knobs, faders and switches with small, cheap LED screens only for text under them to automap to all of their different synth emulation plugins and most of their parameters, not just Analog Lab. The Keylab range has never been enough to cover all the parameters of even simple synths like the Moog Mini. A controller specifically for actually playing synths. Is that too much to ask for?

[@Johnmike]

I totally agree with you here! We need something that just focuses on that…

[@julioguerrero8849]

@@Johnmike Exactly. Soundforce's SFC-Mini is a good example of that, but lacks a keyboard and mod wheels. Imagine something a bit more robust than that, and add a 61 keybed with poly aftertouch, a small 8x8 LED lit buttons grid (not pads) for live looping/clip pattern sequencer programming, scene buttons and a transport, and you've got yourself something never been made before for V Collection to be fully sequenced for live performances in Logic, Live and FL Studio. Probably would cost around $800+, but I would buy that in a heartbeat.

[@jsmacks11]

biggest things I see with controllers. This is after buying multiple controllers, playing in Live bands. 1. Lack of polyphonic aftertouch options. If they could get this cost down more that would be a big thing. 2. 76 key synth action boards almost nonexistent. 3. Very few boards with integrated audio interface. 4. Limited laptop holder considerations. 5. Make 9 faders standard over 8.

[@MrBrappedOut]

I use Reason Studio and I use the Nektar Panorama P1 and Oxygen Pro to control the mixer and transport of Reason. If you're NOT customizing and mapping out your controller and them making templates in your DAW then just get a Roland A-49 or M-audio keystation. Something barebones.

[@hundeaux]

I personally want a 49 key with motorized faders, endless knobs, full transport controls & Mackie/hui compatibility for Pro Tools

[@DopamineOverload]

I will say though, about the Launchkey MK4 37-key... I think it's a near-perfect controller. The velocity/response is much better than I expected, playing good grand piano VSTs and such... and, if they could enable the Relative option for the encoders, inside Components (and make the Play button transmit a CC on Ch16, like most controllers do, with their Play buttons, usually CC115)... they'd have a winner on their hands. The Rec button transmits a message. Play button does not. The chord modes (insanely useful and inspiring), the arp/scale stuff, and the mutate / rhythm options, the 4 custom modes... it's pretty much a perfect controller, for me, if they could address the obvious oversights. That said, I really REALLY like the Keylab Essential 61 MK3, a lot. If it came in a 37 or 49-key mini, I would be ecstatic.

[@peabodyscientific2082]

The new Launchkey did bring some pretty innovative chord features that look interesting, and I've never been a user of previous chord features. But you're right, with Arturia taking six years to refresh the Keylab and Novation taking four for the Launchkey, we really deserved a lot more. I'm hoping this disappointing generation is just the result of residual effects of the pandemic on the companies' product roadmap and maybe we quickly get another iteration with the improvements we should have had this year. See you in two years! 🤞🏽😄

[@Sonmz]

It will be interesting to see the Novation Launchkey SL MK4. It's their flagship product. But I don't think it's even been announced yet.

[@Pyroja]

My MPK49 from 2008: 12 pads, 8 knobs, 8 faders, DAW integration Arturia Keylab mk3, 2024: 12 pads, 8 knobs, 8 faders, DAW integration

[@Johnmike]

@@Pyroja exactly my point

[@iRelevant.47.system.boycott]

Roland A-500 anno 2008: 8 pads, 9 knobs, 9 faders, DAW integration. Edirol PCR-30 anno 2003 : No pads, 8 knobs, 8 faders, DAW integration.

[@Zzzz...7]

I think you should evaluate what software (daw, plugins, etc) you're primarily going to use (download trial versions and see what you do and don't like), figure out your workflow and test if possible (read reviews also) the finger drumming, key bed feel and features that interest you. Try to go with midi controllers based off what's designed to work within the ecosystem you choose. Most major daws have midi controllers that work specifically with them. Keep in mind that your keyboard and mouse is a viable solution also.

[@Johnmike]

Yup!

[@Ryan0751]

This shouldn't be a big surprise, this is a very mature product category. Controllers like these have been on the market for 30 years at this point. Where iterative innovation can still take place is in the software and integration. I'm currently using the Komplete Kontrol S61 MK3 and NKS is lovely.

[@4mb127]

I think there's still a lot of innovation to be done. Infinite encoders, better bidirectional communication and compatibility, Q/A, better build quality, bigger displays, better pads, novel input interfaces. Even things like good poly aftertouch are still extremely rare. Sure, a basic keybed was done over half a century ago. But there's a ton of stuff that can be improved in so many ways.

[@KBpro54]

The 9(!) faders on the Launchkey 49 MK4 are now on the left side, thank God, finlly a proper controller for the VB3m.

[@DawlessAndBibleBlack]

I do wish we had more options for MPE/Poly aftertouch. That's the one thing the market is still severely lacking in. Now that NI added poly AT to Kontrol MK.3 I reckon it will start to spread because the competition has to acknowledge it.

[@hahaxolotl]

the nektar gx61 is the perfect formfactor for a midikeyboard, if they would just make a version with really good semiweighted keys id instantly buy it

[@paradockz]

I'm about 9 minutes in..bro they took pads AWAY from the keylab!! only 12 instead of 16!!

[@Johnmike]

Yup didn’t get to point that out

[@paradockz]

@@Johnmike crazy downgrade.

[@ChristopherJenkins73]

Sad!😢 Every Midi Controller needs 16 pads and 9 faders

[@legargarcia4363]

I totally agree, i have a minilab and was looking to upgrade to a keylab beacause of the pads and now theyre gone

[@DopamineOverload]

That... was a mistake. For sure. Having all 16 is such a blessing.

[@williamillington]

I thought of getting the big brother of keylab from my essential 49 mk2. I kinda came to the conclusion of this video within the last few days. I wouldn't gain much and I'm making great music already..But I never owned premium keys before so that itch is kinda there.

[@Johnmike]

The keys on the Mk2 were great…as stated in this video they are pretty much the same in the Mk3…if you want a better feel and got the money I say go for it…but that’s literally the only benefit you’re getting…

[@williamillington]

@@Johnmike Can't justify the cost. I think I'm an adult now lol thanks for your honesty.

[@Johnmike]

@@williamillington lol absolutely!

[@TheMainSilverSultan]

Someone said, look for features you want to use the most and have quick access to via knobs/buttons/sliders. Then see which one gives you that accessibility.

[@officialjerel]

You could say majority of music production tools and workstation keyboards have peaked? Are there any synths and pianos that haven’t been duplicated? It takes a while for a groundbreaking new invention to be developed.

[@Johnmike]

I agree on all points…I think the industry has peaked

[@magicmulder]

I'm still rocking my NI Maschine Studio (w/o the Maschine software) and am super happy with it. Nothing that came after it could replace it for me. Shame they never did a 2.0 version of it. Gonna get myself a Komplete Kontrol S61/S88 Mk2 because the Mk3 exchanged the two displays with a single one with smaller net real estate. That's all I'll ever need.

[@alonamit2754]

Wow man each of your words are gold. recently i found myself looking for new midi keyboard. listen to my requirements and tell please how its possible not to have even one model like this in the entire market: - 37 keys - Full size keys (or almost full size) - Semi-weighted (or any kind of good feeling keys) - Normal wheels and not freakin touch (!!!!) why the hell is someone came up with this stupid idea of touch. - No needs of any faders/knobs, or just a few but still top priority is to keep it portable with minimum upper part. you know, i had yamaha clp-645, not the best keys in the world but still million times better than any midi keyboard (even the 88 hammer weighted models, except Kawai VPC1). if you were to create this model but without speakers, sounds, or any internal features, with no legs or bulky body, and reduced the keyboard to 25- and 37-key versions, how expensive could it really be? I don’t think it would cost much, and I’d buy it in a heartbeat. Am I the only one who feels this way? btw your playing is very inspiring and i really like your reviews, thx for that!

[@b3owu1f]

I swear I am going to build my own controller.. I want one that is similar to what most have now.. but I want a joystick not wheels, I want an xy pad that works well, I want 16 drum pads that are good/on par with MAschines. I want 16 knobs/faders (on a 61 key board) with RGB status (10 on each knob/slider), RGB per key for various uses like chord setups, learning, etc. A slider/finger touch bar for dynamic use, a fatar or on par keybed with per key aftertouch that is durable and can take a beating. Dual screens or a big screen like what Komplet has now. If possible.. ability to swap faders/drum pads so left/right handed players can choose where to put faders/knobs. Give me that.. that is what is not yet available. There are some that offer a few of those.. but no one keyboard offers all this.. and I dont know why. I'd pay $1500 for a quality durable board that offers all this. The nail in the coffin is ability to swap things in/out easily.. e.g. pads, knobs/faders, screen, xy pad, joystick, etc.. so if something breaks.. you can replace it like a PC part.

[@tuneunleashed]

The only midi controller I know that has joystick is the Kurzweil KM88

[@iRelevant.47.system.boycott]

There you have it. Next level. Modular keyboard. A skeleton built for the current form factor, with the option for plug-n-play components to added to taste. Lego keyboard.

[@danslamusique]

I have been on the market for a new midi keyboard for the last week. I saw the mk4 drop at the end of the week amd pulled the trigger amd it arrived today. I will say, the last controllers i have are 10 years old keystation pro 88 and axiom 25.. fhe faders and buttons never seemed to work.. this new keyboard actually controls stuff and the preprogramming with chords and scales is quite a surprise!

[@Asmuk]

Thanks for the video. I agree with almost everything about it. Korg Keystage has some innovation, but almost every other midi controller repeats the same stuff and the companies aren't bothering with polyphonic aftertouch and more recent midi implementations. I just sold my Arturia MkII last month as I was definitely not using it. Got a Yamaha CK61 which I can play live on the church coupled with some synths like the Opsix, and don't need a dumb keyboard with no sounds to play sounds from the computer at home - the CK61 does it and even acts as the interface. I'd only justify the controller for using with modules, mostly live. On the computer, I'll use the mouse and keyboard to control stuff. And, to add insult to injury, using Arturia's controllers to record a Hammond requires the faders. Also if you want to change synth parameters on the go. That will make the daw control possibilities on the faders inutile.

[@rez9159]

I have to oppose about the lack of innovation. The Launchkey MK4 range comes with an Ableton Live script including step sequencing functionality, sure Push does that too, but most controllers missing on the software side. Another really innovative thing is that the new Launchkeys and Launchpads (X, Mini+Pro Mk3) are recognized as keyboard and are able to send keystrokes including modifiers, stored in the device. That means you can for example map opt+cmd+5, cmd+z etc., on a pad in the custom modes and it will be usable everywhere you take your device without additional software, especially for Live users who can't change shortcuts without workarounds this is a pretty big improvement and has even advantages over stream deck which relies on local software. Atm. This is pretty unique on this kind of devices and even on dedicated Keyboards you need QMK/ Via compatible devices to do this. This is a pretty cool and useful direction.

[@Magnus_Loov]

To me the upgrade boiled down to getting a new 61 key controller with polyphonic aftertouch and Midi 2.0 (for future proofing). And that it must have really good feeling keybed. The best for the price (from what was around in march) for me was NI S61 Mk3 with the good fatar keybed. It also happened to integrate well with NI:s own plugins and then some, but it was only a bonus.

[@panyermusic]

I’m upgrading to the Novation 49 mk4 from a native instruments kontrol 49 mk2. All the chord, scale and sequencer options build in instead of in the software is a huge upgrade. So yeah I don’t think you have to upgrade from last years version, but there is definitely improvements in these controllers.

[@CorreeHoey]

Fatar Keybed, built in audio interface, 8 faders. All I need. I think these companies know this would put workstations out the business with softsynths in the mix.

[@SomebodyPickaName]

16:30 - the faders and encoders on the MIDI controllers are generally designed for controlling synth parameters, so it's understandable that it wouldn't work well for mixing purposes. You touched on something important here, which is that companies aren't innovating and that it's all the same! So true, unfortunately. The good news is that MIDI 2.0 brings a whole new level of control, however, as you pointed out, companies aren't innovating to use MIDI 2.0 yet.

[@dannydecanhas3743]

Question. If midi keyboards arent getting any better. But someone was looking to get something for his studio. Would it be better to just buy an arranger/workstation or actual keyboard/digital piano of some sort, and just use it as a midi controller when need be?

[@pjbpiano]

@@dannydecanhas3743, if you’re in a studio, then most things you can do on a workstation can be done by some software.

[@ViRiXDreamcore]

Someone actually did write a custom script specifically for Cubase that works very well with the arteria key lab Pro Mark two. I don’t know if it works with the Mark three but I’ve been using it a lot because it has a lot of functionality. But that is a custom script written by one of the users of Q base and the key lab Pro. The out-of-the-box functionality with Cubase is completely broken because of how cCubase uses its midi remote.

[@martinjmusic]

I really don’t understand why not a single one of those new MIDI controllers has MIDI 2.0, MPE, or Property Exchange. The only new thing for the same price is the Korg Keystage with MIDI 2.0 and Poly Aftertouch!

[@alteredworks]

Technically MIDI 2.0 is still in development, but I agree. There's other synths with PolyAT too such as the ASM Hydrasynth and the Waldorf Iridium. Korg licensed the PolyAT from ASM for their Keystage. The new NI controllers have PolyAT beds by Fatar. Of course none of those are MPE controllers, but there is the Osmose. PolyAT is at least becoming more common which why the Keylab MkIII is a major disappointment. If take more expressive control over a bunch of knobs and sliders any day.

[@SomebodyPickaName]

@@alteredworks I didn't know that it was still in development. I thought that developers were just afraid to innovate with it since it was so new.

[@alteredworks]

@@SomebodyPickaName I didn't know either until I looked into it recently. I guess the core implementation is done, but some things are still getting hammered out. Every time I look into it I find conflicting information.

[@kalinmirchev]

MIDI 2.0 offers complexity and computing requirements that are not ready for the mass market yet.

[@2112jonr]

Because no one has a use for MIDI 2 which is why few synths support iy either.

[@JohnSandlin-e3j]

My MIDI controller is a Yamaha MX-49. The synth has a DAW control mode so the knobs on the face can be defined to control specific MIDI messages. I keep looking at dedicated MIDI controllers but the price has kept me away. I do typically use the mouse, but always think it'd be cool to have more knobs (always need more, right?) and pads to trigger samples or for drums (the MX-49 has 4 knobs with bank switching so they're effective 12 knobs, just not all at once - but no pad buttons). I've been thinking the same, MIDI controllers really haven't done anything really innovative, all the "new" features have been around on high end systems for a long while.

[@agentooe33AD]

Honestly, I do use knobs and faders on my Midi Controller to mimic using an analog synth. But at no point have I ever used those controls for controlling the actual DAW. I don't know anyone who does. I wish they would focus the controls on MIDI Keyboards for virtual instruments in mind instead of controlling a DAW. But yeah, we are in the age of Cookie Cutter Controllers. I have a Keylab Mk2, and I hate it because they put the knobs and sliders on the right side of the keyboard. But the keybed is way better than the Mk1 which I upgraded from, so I deal with it. It just seems like nobody can get it right. I honestly think that at this point, you'd be better off just getting a hardware synthesizer that you like, and just using it to play your virtual instruments.

[@iRelevant.47.system.boycott]

It is better with a dedicated motorized controller for DAW control. Also the keybeds on some of the older synths, have a luxurious synth action feel to them. Different construction of the key action, with a lighter, less typing keyboard feel to them. To me the keybed is half the synth, from the physical feel to the trigger action (On Key Trigger/On Impact/After touch).

[@JoelStephen]

Agreed. Wish i had just upgraded to a full 88 key stage key and use it as MIDI as well. I bought oxygen pro mini when it was launched. And only to find out that i wont use anything except the keys. Which sucks now im stuck with a 20 somthing set of keys.

[@igorsenayoutube]

Props for being real about the youtube promotion game. Obviously i knew how it's played(only a naive person wouldn't), but it's still refreshing; not mabny creators do that.

[@lhzx]

Well my Samson m25 is no longer supported with Cubase 13. The DAW just no longer recognizes the buttons even the big volume knob actions on it anymore. I think that's the outlier of the bunch lol.

[@salut9658]

Is the keybed of the launchkey 49 good enough for producing music ? Not playing classical piano obviously Or does it feel cheap Also can I use it on a desk behind my computer keyboard or will the height be too big ? And I should go with mini instead? Thanks

[@ViRiXDreamcore]

The MPE boards might be something. I’d love something like the oasis or a full-size version of the Luma key maybe. Or that one MIDI controller from Keith someone I can’t remember their name.

[@woodyoulove-reynaldguibone6890]

Couldn't agree more! 100%. That's why I don't upgrade anymore. I think my Novation Launchkey 61 miii for 10 years as long as it's stays functional. What I want to see is they should copy atleast Behringer's motorized faders. But yeah, Behringer already made it many years ago.

[@JackaTrial]

Man, you are exactly right! I wish these companies would stop making toys and actually listen and analyse how we work and what we need...