Midway Naval Chat ft. Jon Parshall

[@travispollett2120]

Amazing interview/Q&A; very thankful to Mr. Parshall for coming on again and sharing his expertise and thoughts on all the questions. Thank you Drach for setting this up and providing people like me with the ability to sit at the feet of a mind like both Mr. Parshall's and your own. Thank you as well to the questioners for coming up with a lot of really good questions. Looking forward to seeing more collaboration between you two! Very sad that Mr. Hornfischer will be unable to be a guest in the future; his death is truly a tragedy for historical research and publishing.

[@matchesburn]

21:49 _"I did a Take a Shot Every Time I Spot A Historical Inaccuracy. My wife stopped me around about the time of Battle of Coral Sea when I was screaming at the screen that, 'Lexington is not a Yorktown class!'."_ [Next morning] Drach: "Why is all the rum gone?" Mrs. Drach: "Something about Lexington not being a Yorktown class contributed to it."

[@ph89787]

Would you believe me when I say that Lexington being a Yorktown is not the most infuriating part of that scene?

[@matej2733]

well, I missed one excelent mercenary commander in Game of Thrones.... pitty he signed for this... whatever it is .... %)

[@khaelamensha3624]

Thanks for this excellent comment that brightined my day! I needed it (and a good rum ration of course... the video of Drach of course what were you thinking about ^^)

[@ph89787]

@Nihil Patel his liver would be demanding a raise.

[@TheSchultinator]

@@ph89787 If it survived

[@phluphie]

I remember reading an interview w/ a Japanese civilian. She said that she started to notice that the radio kept reporting that the IJN was winning glorious victories closer and closer to Japan.

[@khaelamensha3624]

Well controle of information is still in use... during the war in 1991, US medias have the order to never film a corp so people watching the news would not be traumatized... not sure of the number of deads in this story but quite a lot...

[@toddmadison4666]

@@khaelamensha3624 there are degrees to it. For example, in Vietnam, media and politicians were notorious for giving too much info, which got more than a few groups shot to pieces when future plans and targets were released. There is definitely a fine line between sugar coating and outright lying. Ironically, western WWI propaganda was so over the top that people didn’t believe the stories from Eastern Europe during WWII. 91 was pretty tied down media wise, ‘03 was pretty wide open on the ground. Like most things in history, depends on who is calling the shots. Japan was a funny case, because the armed services were trying to hide from their peers as much as they were from their own people.

[@Zerox_Prime]

@MMoLoLu And they continue to this day.

[@The_Viscount]

I've heard this too. And that it was obvious that they were losing. In the end, it was actually even more terrifying because what kind of monster could build and lose two thousand ships and keep coming?

[@ED-es2qv]

@MMoLoLu a recent propaganda victory had my friend angry about “the worst thing that’s ever happened in America “, which he thought was the first time vaccines were required in a school. It isn’t. The same man had been required to have a number of vaccines to attend kindergarten, but was furious that a college student would have to wear a mask if they weren’t vaccinated. The same man who wears a mask when he sands wood, believes that wearing a mask is an unacceptable hardship for entry to a business. You can’t tell me propaganda doesn’t work.

[@sawyerawr5783]

can I just say that the image of Drach screaming at the TV about historical inaccuracies while drunk is waaaaay more amusing to me than it has any right to be?

[@Whitpusmc]

Yeah I’d watch that!! Seriously I’d watch a movie like Midway with some simultaneous commentary like closed captions with corrections or other info or “believe it or not that’s correct!” The drunk part would be a bonus.

[@Mikey300]

But which movie would get you drunker: Midway (1976) with Heston using a ramp strike to change his SBD/SB2C into a F9F Panther, or Midway (2019) with (as Drach and Parshall observed) the Kido Butai putting up Battlestar Galactica levels of AAA?

[@artbrann]

someone get his wife to film, him drinking while he does the review on Midway(2019) it should be funny

[@sawyerawr5783]

@@Mikey300 I always kinda liked the 1976 Midway Movie. I get that its not accurate...though in fairness Shattered Sword wasnt out yet so they couldn't know...but it works as a dramatic story. Hell, the "the strike was warming up on the deck when the SBDs tipped over" works perfectly for a movie plot.

[@steelhammer96]

@@Whitpusmc @Drachinifel I'd pay for that! :D

[@chloehennessey6813]

USS Atlanta is my favorite ship. US Anti Aircraft Doctrine: Can the cruiser BE the anti-aircraft gun?

[@enjibkk6850]

A sort of the opposite to an A10

[@Billchungus-e3e]

Shattered sword is a glorious book. What a guest to have! Great vid

[@spudwesth]

I read it 3 times.

[@LukoHevia]

Drach + Jon Parshall = Many happy history buffs

[@davidbrennan660]

Drach watches his screens like a Chief Engineer does his gauges when being told to get up stream at short notice.

[@alanmcclenaghan7548]

She cannae take it cap'n. I just don't have the power!

[@victorydaydeepstate]

His respect to his guest is a display of Drach's incredible communication tools in his kit.

[@JediKnight19852002]

Engineers gonna engineer

[@PalleRasmussen]

@@victorydaydeepstate Jon told me on Facebook that Alex is both nice, funny and knows his stuff. So the Drach we see, seems to also be the Drach that talks to guests. I hope to run into him at a reenactment event at some time.

[@ovk-ih1zp]

The IJN's greatest losses at Midway after the loss of flight decks was the loss of trained & experienced support crews. They had maintenance & deck crews that could set up & allow for the coordinated take-offs & forming in-flight formations. It took an incredibly skilled deck crew to spot & launch the alpha strike skills that the US took over two years to accrue. That hurt the IJN just as bad as losing the flight decks.

[@Whitpusmc]

This is a key comment. Unlike the US the Japanese was a very agrarian society with little mechanical assistance. You could draft and American off a farm who still had experience with a tractor or better yet an auto mechanic or auto factory worker and train them to service a carrier aircraft much much faster rate than a Japanese farmer with zero mechanical experience. Plus the US had much more manpower period so we had five or ten to one of those people to draft period. Losing the Kido Butai six months or a year later than they had to was devastating to them. Plus the lack of experienced pilots rotating back to train and mock combat the new pilots added to the growing quality deficit.

[@kevindolin4315]

@@Whitpusmc Very true. As mentioned in the book, there weren't that many pilots lost. The Guadalcanal Campaign was the beginning of the terrible attrition of aircraft AND aircrews for the IJN. The US had the luxury of assigning aircrews a specific limit of missions, whereupon they were rotated back to the States to train new pilots. Japan neither had nor could afford such a program. Exhaustion and the wear and tear of the constant use of aircraft (people often don't think about the importance of maintenance) meant that the best pilots were constantly sent back into the meat grinder where the odds often caught up with them. The Japanese shot down during "The Great Marianas Turkey Shoot" were not the veterans that were around at the start of the war. It wasn't much better for the IJAAF.

[@PalleRasmussen]

@@kevindolin4315 same for the Luftwaffe. Those German aces with hundreds of kills got them by flying 3+ years and surviving. Meanwhile the new reinforcements were untrained, while the US and CW pilots had been trained by aces. The Red Army Air Force functioned the same as the Axis, but lost even more men.

[@kevindolin4315]

@@PalleRasmussen If you look at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_aces_from_Germany, you'll see that many of the Luftwaffe pilots who racked up high totals didn't make it to the end of the war. Many were KIA, MIA, or simply lost in flying accidents. Hans-Joachim Marseille, with over 150 kills, died in a crash caused by a dodgy new engine. Six years of a meat grinder of a war, exhaustion and the bloody odds of battle took its toll. Once the Russians moved their production capacity beyond the Urals, the Luftwaffe couldn't touch it, so that was a major factor in Russia's favor. Perhaps the biggest factor was that the Russians could afford those hideous losses because they had a much greater population to replace those losses. While the Luftwaffe was bled white, the Russians simply bled and bled while still having reserves to send into battle. They also had more than enough space for new pilots to get to know their aircraft before going into battle. Not so the Germans.

[@Fulcrum205]

​@Whitpusmc the Germans were in a similar situation. The general population was much less technologically savvy than your average rural American. Their industry was full of very good scientists and engineers but with Victorian factories

[@GavinTheFifer]

You should talk about the Pacific submarine war, probably the most underrated military campaign in history, and very rarely gets talked about. It essentially models what the Germans wanted to do in the Atlantic, but actually having a massive effect on Japanese war-making capabilities.

[@haroldhenderson2824]

AFTER the Mk14 torpedo got fixed, obviously.

[@GavinTheFifer]

@@haroldhenderson2824 well yeah, although on the off chance the crews rigged them in a way that let them work, the subs did a lot of damage

[@dubya85]

Definately

[@kiloalphasierra]

@@haroldhenderson2824 when I started to look into the Pacific submarine campaign the one thing I found out was how blown out of proportion the Mk-14 fiasco was. The main thing that caused Japanese ship sinkings to go up in 1943 was US submarine production hit it’s stride in early/mid 1943 and prior to that around half of the US subs in the Pacific couldn’t even use the Mk-14 and the ones that did frequently were deploying with less then a full load of Mk-14’s with the older Mk-10’s making up the rest of the load out. By the time large numbers of US fleet subs were roaming the Pacific, the Mk-14 was well into the process of being fixed. It still doesn’t absolve the US Congress of it’s guilt for not properly funding Mk-14 development in the first place and BuOrd for not taking the time to test a few Mk-14’s once complaints started coming in in mid 1942, but at least BuOrd has legitimate excuses that mitigate some of its dropping the ball.

[@paulpeterson5214]

They used a lot of code decripts to guide subs to where the merchant ships would be. Apparently the Japanese merchant fleet had to report their location daily.

[@hazchemel]

Seems that as the war went on, the focus of Japan's military men (all branches) turned more and more inward. His thought and effort flowed ever more toward perfecting an inner ideal, probably a specific military/warrior ideal. As defeats, retreats and captures accelerate , his association with the inner ideal, rather than victory, grows stronger.

[@peterthomson4632]

Same was true for the Germans. They became more Nazi, and ever more dedicated to cultivating the 'warrior spirit' (a favourite phrase with Doenitz).

[@livingadreamlife1428]

Nimitz’s CNCPAC Cocktail Demerara Sugar Cubes Dash of Angostura Bitters 2 oz Bourbon 1 oz Dark Rum Ice

[@jonparshall]

I forgot to add: dash of hot water to dissolve the sugar cube with the bitters. Then add the ice and booze.

[@livingadreamlife1428]

@@jonparshall Thanks for the comment Jon. Hope our paths cross in the future.

[@jetdriver]

@@jonparshall how long do you need to Let the Sugar Dissolve? Does the cube dissolve fully before adding the alcohol?

[@gnyrinn]

@@jetdriver I’d just use Demerara syrup. If you make it to the ratio 2 parts sugar to 1 part water you’ll end up with a syrup you won’t have to refrigerate, if you keep it in a closed container and consume it within a season.

[@Rikevis10]

These discussions are incredible. Thanks for the time and for sharing with all of us.

[@garygriffiths2911]

I suspect that everyone who has ever read 'Shattered Sword" must have been impressed with it to some degree and I'm no exception to that rule. But I'd go further and state that this book is I think quite the finest work of naval historical research I've read in twenty years or more - in particular the way the authors have managed to combine all this ground breaking academic research (especially from the much neglected Japanese side of the story) and arranged it into script that reads like a thriller.

[@richardscott6716]

Man and boy I’ve been a student of the Second World War for more than half a century. I suppose that largely due to my Canadian nationality I focused almost entirely on the European theatre of operations. Furthermore I knew little and understood less about naval history and the nature of naval warfare.Shattered Sword changed all that. It’s no exaggeration to say that this book introduced to naval warfare and has sparked a nearly all consuming interest in the Asia-Pacific war.John Parshall is but one of a host great historians who have brought that fascinating aspect of 20th century history to life.Hope I live long enough to see his next book published…..

[@davidcollins1705]

… yeah, it really is a page turner and a great work of historical research.

[@nickmcgookin247]

thanks Jon for coming back, you guys make are minds richer.

[@Conn30Mtenor]

The 5" 38 gun was so good it was in service until 2008.

[@TheEDFLegacy]

1:38:00 More like: Admiral Lee: "I'm not trapped in here with you... you're trapped in here with ME."

[@brovold72]

LOL I only get that reference bc coworkers were discussing it *today*.

[@paulstreet9162]

A great catch for a great conversation. Shattered Sword is a brilliant read with huge issues of Japanese troubles spotyed in their war games and flawed invasion capabilities for Midway. A must read.

[@Palora01]

I would like to thank Mr. Jon Parshall for taking the time to do the video and the stream, he is a true scholar and to thank Drachinifel for somehow making it happen, it's amazing to see.

[@spikespa5208]

Would love to peruse Parshall's book shelves.

[@ZJ517]

I was really enjoying listening to this fabulous chat until hearing the passing James Hornfischer, really saddening to hear.

[@SWAMPTTHING]

Thanks again to you and Jon for another great historical conversation. Looking forward to the next collaboration.

[@markwhitton8785]

Really interesting insight on the Japanese over-inflation, and consequential impact on Japanese decision-making in 1945 when they were being told to throw in the towel.

[@davidk6269]

16:46 I also watched the 1970's version of "Midway" in the theatre when I was about 9 or 10. It was a hot mess. But it was a very LOUD hot mess, as the theatre was using the "Sensurround" system, which augmented the normal audio with enormous extra speakers which amplified the battle sounds absolutely eardrum-shattering levels of sounds. Ah, the memories. ; )

[@markholle3450]

I remember that as well. The very first scene with the planes on the deck was intended to make you aware that this wasn't going to be a normal film. Those huge speakers shook you pretty good.

[@user-oo8xp2rf1k]

I remember (possibly wrongly) film of planes being pushed off the deck after their home carrier had sunk. My former Royal Navy AA officer uncle told me there was nowhere to store them. To my six year olds brain throwing away a cool asset like a plane showed how desperate the battles in the Pacific were. It blew my mind they would do that. I has a strong sense of that even before I knew very much history of anything.

[@WilliamDye-willdye]

Seems like Mr. Parshall always has something interesting to say, especially because he takes the time to do plenty of research. My dad was in the pacific theater, so I learn about that part of WW2 as a way of better understanding what he went through.

[@denvan3143]

A really interesting and informative talk. I enjoyed every minute.

[@roho10011]

Just discovered this fun and informative sessions with the very fun and informative Mr. Parshall. What a treat! Thank you

[@stevenmajor9513]

The more I read about Midway, the less Nagumo did wrong. Nagumo did the do. He was simply not given the chance.

[@richardmalcolm1457]

He was the wrong pick for the job. But it's also true that Yamamoto's plan and dispositions handcuffed him in important ways.

[@stevenmajor9513]

@@richardmalcolm1457 I disagree. Any other commander would have done exactly the same thing with the details and forces and orders they had. Nagumo was following doctrine which any other commander would have done.

[@Philistine47]

Nagumo wasn't a great pick for the job, not because he didn't know anything about carrier aviation when he became CO First Carrier Striking Force, but because once he was given that command he never took an interest in learning about it. Compare both Fletcher and Spruance, both of whom - like Nagumo - came out of the surface forces and had no experience in aviation prior to having to do it for real, but who both set themselves to learning as much as they could as fast as they could as soon as they got picked to run a CV TF. But I agree that no IJN flag officer (except the maniac Yamaguchi) would have done any differently at Midway. Nagumo was no aviation expert, but he had the best staff the IJN could give an officer in his position - and he knew his limitations well enough to let them call the shots.

[@stevenmajor9513]

If someone can point me to a source which says Nagumo was wrong then I will happily read it. He had to bomb Midway. He was under constant attack. He had to recover his aircraft. His scout planes and other aspects of intelligence and reconnaissance failed him. Hiryu should have gone west at ramming speed to get out of Dodge. So yes...that's an error.

[@Philistine47]

@@stevenmajor9513 There are a LOT of sources which make that claim, but they're all based on Fuchida's "pack of transparent lies." Nagumo was hobbled by Yamamoto's orders and handcuffed by IJN CV operational doctrine, and so when the plan started coming off the rails he quickly found himself between a rock and a hard place. In that sense, No, Nagumo didn't do anything seriously "wrong" at Midway. Could Nagumo have done better? _Maybe._ *Speculatively.* But the change point wouldn't be at Midway, it would be a year earlier - when the _Kido Butai_ was initially formed and placed under his command. If he'd taken an interest in learning about carrier operations then, _perhaps_ he could have interjected himself into the formation of IJN CV doctrine (which was still being hashed out by relatively junior officers) - if nothing else, Nagumo as a career destroyerman _should_ have recognized the crucial importance of scouting, _possibly_ leading to a more robust effort on that front. *Hypothetically* this could have led to an earlier detection of the US Fleet at Midway, or making contact with the British CVs... at all... during the Indian Ocean Raid. But if it seems like there's a whole lotta "If" coming off these statements, well, that's because there is.

[@GrahamWKidd]

What can we do to aid Drach in getting out his Midway review. Please let it be longer than the movie itself!

[@flattblackcopper4558]

Part 1 and 2 is longer but part's 3-5 are ONLY about 1 hour. 🤦‍♂️😜

[@tekie1725]

Long man good

[@rayward3630]

John Parshall may be the number one Pacific War historian that there is. He is great and busting myths on both sides. He understands just how hard it was for the US Navy to keep Japan from expanding their domination of the Pacific and to even begin to start turning them back, before the Navy was able to utilize the massive capabilities of US production. In 42, they were really outnumbered by the Japanese. They were outnumbered, out experienced and we're faced with a military that wasn't prepared for a war of this scale. Not until late 1943 and into 1944 and 45 did we begin to dominate the Japanese with massive production, experienced Naval crews, pilots and Marines and Army personel.

[@duncanmaclean1001]

Hearing Jon say he "didn't know something" absolutely floored me, is such an event possible? I would love to read the wartime diary of Admiral Ugaki, he sounds like an interesting guy.

[@timschoenberger242]

Available: www.amazon.com/Fading-Victory-Admiral-Matome-1941-1945/dp/1591143241/ref=sr_1_1?crid=808M6YHA597X&dchild=1&keywords=matome+ugaki&qid=1624192719&sprefix=matome+%2Caps%2C174&sr=8-1

[@Philistine47]

Willingness to answer "I don't know" when that's the case is the mark of a genuine scholar.

[@testtestesen9702]

I knew they were after us after firecracker run.

[@nathangillispie51]

I continue to boggle at quality and sheer number of hours on content Drach puts out

[@jonparshall]

Recipe for the CINCPAC: Demerara sugar cube Couple dashes Angostura bitters Dash of warm water to dissolve them, then add: 2 oz bourbon 1 oz dark rum Ice (Chester used "cracked ice"; I just use cubes)

[@timsparks7049]

John, I’ll be checking out this Cocktail at happy hour! Retired Naval Aviator Sparky

[@timsparks7049]

Can I get an email for you? I have more questions too!

[@zootsootful]

Emmerich's Midway was like all his other movies: A series of preposterous escapes from certain doom, asses-in-the-seats being the main concern. Get anything right, more's the better, but it's a peripheral concern, if that.

[@zootsootful]

@Doctor Detroit God forbid people rediscover thinking.

[@sundiver137]

@@zootsootful Some the people I've worked with would have done well to heed Crash Davis' famous admonition to Nuke LaLoosh, "Don't think. It can only hurt the team!"

[@NathanOkun]

Much is made of the major advances in electronics (radio, radar, IFF, sonar/asdic, telephones, etc.) through the end of WWII, including the vast improvements in British and US equipment during the war, but the situation is even greater than most people realize due to the huge leaps in the TYPE of electricity that had to be used in these devices and in electric long-distance transmission and in such non-electronic devices such as motors, electric power in production machinery, and in such important background things such as light bulbs changed things immensely through the late=1800s to today. As a major example, the battle between Edison for DC electricity transmission and Tesla and Westinghouse for AC transmission, among others, which AC won for the most part, vastly changed how various devices that used both kinds worked (most electronics internally used DC but externally used AC, especially for transmitting information (Morse Code, voice and music, fast data transmission between the various parts in a fire-control system's equipment, etc.). The US and Germany were able to more quickly improve such things as AA weapon control systems than Britain due to switching to AC internal power between WWI and WWII, while Britain kept its DC "Ring Main" power too long, which required extra AC circuits be installed for data transmission systems during WWII before they could, for example, change from their AA HACS system to the far better US Navy Mark 37 systems. Such seemingly minor background changes had profound effects on the creation and development of advanced electronics or lack of it. This tale should be explained in detail to anyone trying to understand how modern electric-powered devices of all types came into being...

[@brickhockey]

This is highly informative and very very well done. “Shattered Sword” just doesn’t get old.

[@MRYOUNG123451]

Looks like johns not only a pacific war enthusiast but it appears that he fancy’s the bass as well! Looks like a stingray or some other equivalent hanging on the wall behind him? Cheers from a fellow pacific enthusiast and bass player!

[@testtestesen9702]

Where?

[@sundiver137]

@@testtestesen9702 Behind Jon's left shoulder, hanging from the wall.

[@sundiver137]

What bass do you play?

[@spikespa5208]

Would love to peruse Parshall's book shelves. And maybe borrow one occasionally. And, of course, Drach's.

[@CFarnwide]

Sure looks like an Ernie Ball to me!

[@andrewszigeti2174]

Watching the two of you watch and critique Midway would be a blast!

[@boreasreal5911]

"Can an aircarft carrier sink another carrier? Yes, with guns" I can already hear Dr Clarkes maniacle laughter followed by a slightly sarcastic remark about it being a fun time for everyone involved, especialy the japanese

[@Alfordlandscaping]

Army B-26 crews did train with torpedoes at the Lake Charles RTU, well into 1944. The Marauder was designed with a torpedo rack to use them if they thought it was warranted, much like the Betty or Nell. While they weren’t employed to any great or effective degree, largely due to practical circumstances, the B-26’s at Midway had more than just “a torpedo strapped to their belly,” I’m done oddball field mod.

[@jetdriver]

I love the way Jon describes Halsey’s decision to commit the battleships at Guadalcanal.

[@JediKnight19852002]

Cage match vs Ching Lee? Betting the farm on Lee

[@Thumpalumpacus]

@@JediKnight19852002 If Friday the 13th was "the Barroom Brawl" that Saturday fight should aptly be called "the Mugging". Dark alley, dead of night, Washington catches you by the neck and sticks a shiv in your ribs.

[@charlestoast4051]

Awesome chat, Jon Parshall is such a great talker! So candid about aspects of Shattered Sword he could improve. Such a shame that there will never be a good movie about midway - Hollywood are never satisfied with the (great) real story and characters, and have to exaggerate and "dramatise" things to the nth degree. His "ninety minutes" turned out to be quite a bit longer.... :)

[@Philistine47]

The only real advantage of the Swordfish over the TBD Devastator was the British aerial torpedo, which was much better than the dreadful USN Mk 13. There's nothing inherent about _the Swordfish itself_ that would have caused them to withstand massed fighter attack any better than the Devastator. For that matter, the biggest advantage of the B5N "Kate" over its RN and USN contemporaries was the excellent Type 91 aerial torpedo - if the _kanko_ squadrons had been saddled with American Mk 13s, it's doubtful whether they would ever have executed a successful attack after Pearl Harbor.

[@johnshepherd8687]

By the end of the war the Mk 13 was the best aerial torpedo of the conflict. The problem with US torpedos was ack of pre-war testing. Had BuOrd actually tested their product many problems would have been fixed before the war.

[@Philistine47]

@@johnshepherd8687 Yes, I should have specified I was talking about the early Mk 13s in service in 1942, which were the absolute worst aerial torpedoes of the war.

[@TomCamies]

History Buffs praised Midway (2019) for its accuracy, would be interested to see Drach’s video on the film.

[@lovablesnowman]

History Buffs is an absolute fraud

[@testtestesen9702]

The fight yes

[@rancidink7069]

History Buffs doesn’t seem to know much about history

[@victorydaydeepstate]

Parshall is a master communicator

[@billbrockman779]

So sorry to think there will not be a Hornfischer interview. Ian Toll would be a good interview subject if willing.

[@flattblackcopper4558]

I second and third that 👌👍

[@robertdendooven7258]

So would be John Lundstrom.

[@maxinelouchis7272]

P U R E G O L D. Enjoyed every minute.

[@John.0z]

Thank you Jon. You have modified my opinion on some of the history that I have read in very positive ways.

[@legoeasycompany]

I almost regret putting up that question to Mr. Parshall, to hear the situation about RV Petrel makes me sad. Especially in regards to the things left undone around Midway

[@robertmills8640]

Adm. Nagumo ended up as the Naval Base Commander on Guam or Saipan and committed Hari Kari I believe.

[@Philistine47]

Saipan, and yes. He killed himself a short time after US forces landed on the island, when it was clear that it was going to fall.

[@richardelliott9511]

Thanks to mr Parshall for mentioning Walter Lords book. I have cherished my copy since I received it as a young teenager. In school I used it for 2 seperate book reports, the first as a straight up book report in junior high and the second in high school as part of ww2 study. Having read it several times I have considered my self more knowledgeable than most about the battle of Midway. I am pleased that he still thinks highly of it even after his own research has corrected some errors with recently discovered new information. Thanks Drac for interviewing him and as always I enjoy the videos and the really deep dives the most.

[@tomservo5347]

I could imagine the morale effect on American pilots knowing that they'd be sent Stateside to train new pilots with their combat experience was considerable. It provided a sense of 'the light at the end of the tunnel' versus their IJN and Luftwaffe counterparts that only through some miracle would they be relieved from frontline duty.

[@livingadreamlife1428]

Although he wasn’t at Midway, Halsey certainly commanded a fleet task force again. Remember, Halsey was at the Battle of Leyte Gulf and chased the IJN carriers which, unknown to tthe US Navy, weren’t a threat to the landing force Halsey was to protect as they had so few planes left.

[@johntaves487]

He was the 3rd fleet commander, which is not a task force commander. I assume that's the distinction Parshall is making.

[@EK-gr9gd]

But Waldron and VT-8 did find the IJN carriers. By attacking the carriers the American torpedo-bombers forced Nagumo to concentrate on defending his units, rather than planning a second strike against Midway or trying to fix the two USN task forces.

[@Zerox_Prime]

Those were some brave men. I'm not convinced that none of them torpedoed a carrier. Tger e are accounts of Japanese survivors seeing unexploded torpedoes, at least one of which banged the side of a sinking carrier repeatedly.

[@fxdpntc]

I’ve read Neptunes Inferno twice, and that is the book that got me to read more and more books about the Pacific Theater.

[@parrot849]

Someone else may have, by this time, already mentioned that Drach and Jon may have misunderstood the question asked regarding LCDR Richard Best’s abort altitude during his initial bombing dive on IJN carrier Kaga [ 33:55 ]. I could be mistaken, but Jon instead answered the question by stating his estimate of the Best’s bomb release point during his subsequent attack on IJN carrier Akagi. I too was also hoping to learn if it was documented what actual altitude or attack profile Best was at when he broke off his initial Kaga attack, but I don’t think they answered the question. Again I could be mistaken.

[@dongiovanni4331]

I wish I had been able to ask about comparison between Fuchida's accounts of the battle and ex-Wehrmacht officer's accounts like "Lost Victories"

[@blueboats7530]

It's so bizarre to me that Fletcher was shoved onto the dock while Mitscher went on to be a major player in carrier operations later on. Yorktown did all good and Hornet did . . .

[@Philistine47]

A lot of officers seemed to harbor grudges against Fletcher for things that weren't his fault (to the extent they were faults at all). For example: being the nephew of an admiral, which got him some choice billets early in his career. Or for Nimitz tapping him, a career surface guy, to command the _Yorktown_ TF early in the war. Or for Terrible Turner getting his ass kicked at Savo Island by an inferior force. And one of said grudge-holding officers was Nimitz's boss.

[@ph89787]

@@Philistine47 You mean King. I heard that one of the reasons he wanted to bench Fletcher was for loosing Lexington at Coral Sea. Considering King was one of her Captains, her loss could be considered somewhat a personal matter.

[@Philistine47]

@@ph89787 I do mean King, yes. King actually fell into all three categories: his initial grudge against Fletcher predated WW1 and stemmed from Fletcher's family connections; because King was an aviator his grudge against Fletcher grew when Fletcher was given command of a CV TF in WW2; and King's antipathy for Fletcher boiled over after Turner blamed his own ineffectiveness at Guadalcanal on Fletcher.

[@Zerox_Prime]

Ahhh. Admiral Mitchner, the fool who gave us "The Flight to Nowhere" AND "The Flight into Darkness." He killed more Americans at Midway and the Phillipine Sea than did the IJN.

[@michaelsommers2356]

FRUMEL was a US Navy organization. The core personnel had been at Station CAST. Although there were, at least in the beginning, some Australians and British working there, it was not an Australian or British command.

[@motorcop555]

Love these joint streams with John!

[@964cuplove]

Drinking game: take a shot every time someone says “fair enough “ or “that’s a really good question “

[@FreeloaderUK]

My question would have been: what lessons did the IJN learn from Midway & what improvements did they make if any after the battle?

[@f12mnb]

The Russo Japanese War and the naval campaign from the blockade of Port Arthur to the decisive battle of Tsu-Shima affected the IJN view of how the war would be fought against the US. But they weren't alone - many but not all allied generals and field marshals thought WW2 would be very similar to WW1 - so we have infantry and cruiser tank ideas.

[@eduardocharlier7560]

Really saddened to hear of Mr Hornfischer's passing, he seemed like a really nice dude from the stream at wargaming and Neptune's Inferno was the next book on my reading list...

[@spikespa5208]

Agree.

Brilliant all round Video. I certainly learned a lot. The influence of the Japanese Propaganda on their decisionmaking towards the end of the war was unknown to me. It is certainly a good addition to what I learned from Downfall and Hell to pay. Boath very interesting books which I reviewed on my channel.

[@gastonbell108]

I own very few navhist books... Shattered Sword is one of them. It obliterated a lot of canon regarding Midway when it came out.

[@Johnnycdrums]

I love hearing a good Pacific War Carrier debate. Thank you; Mr. Drach.

[@USS_Grey_Ghost]

@Drachinifel 2 questions one have you heard about the Time a US Iowa class had a army group surrender to its UAV in desert storm and are you going to do a Video about USS Pigeon the first ship to receive the Presidential Unit Citation?

[@adenkyramud5005]

As usual the answer to the second question will surely be "yes, eventually, but the list of videos to do is already long enough to fill years"

[@USS_Grey_Ghost]

@@adenkyramud5005 I know I just would like to know if it’s on that list at all

[@thomasjamison2050]

I live in RI. A ship that played a very significant role in our history was HMS Gaspee. Sure, it wasn't that big a deal, but it's hard to find history on it, other than when we burned it in the Bay. I would love to know more about it.

[@ABrit-bt6ce]

Big Clive Live was my play date for the night. Looks like this was damn fine.

[@jeebus6263]

~3:00:00 thanks for addressing the question. You mentioned aerosoled dispersion, so one question is what is the diameter of an aerosoled substance. Seems to be a consensus that they potentially make a difference in the case of a direct sneeze but that's about it.

[@porksterbob]

Wouldn't the swordfish be way worse since Japanese naval pilots all cut their teeth fighting i-15s over China? Like shooting down biplanes is what Japanese naval pilots specialized in.

[@erikmagnuson9670]

What was the record of the Swordfish when faced with fighter opposition? Plenty of stressed skin aircraft also returned riddled with holes - most aircraft are lost due to hits on engines, fuel tanks, or pilots (reference the the patterns of holes in surviving B17s)

[@matchesburn]

@@erikmagnuson9670 Y'know, there's a bit of a glaring issue with the "our aircraft is mostly fabric and thus most of your shots pass clean through" defense: The pilot and crew are part of that "bullet passes through" bit. And as we saw with biplane combat in WWI - most of the experienced dogfighters didn't even try and bother with hitting the aircraft, but the pilot. "Kill the pilot and the plane will follow."

[@Philistine47]

@@erikmagnuson9670 The Swordfish squadrons were lucky in that they very seldom encountered fighter opposition during the type's operational service. The one notable occasion when they did run into enemy fighters was Operation Cerberus, aka the Channel Dash - and they got absolutely obliterated, while scoring no hits.

[@kevindolin4315]

@@Philistine47 The British had the Vickers Vildebeest in the defense of Malaya, Singapore and Java. It suffered the same fate.

[@kevinwilson1228]

My 4th time through, I just enjoy the conversation and friendship

[@dancolley4208]

Things like the publishers have done by ceasing to publish tomes like "The Cruider Bible" (so called by Mr. Parshall) is a bloody tragedy on all fronts. If the [paraphrased] saying that those who refuse to study history are doomed to repeat its failures is true, by not publishing this book, we continue down a slippery slope. I see it as a dangerous precedent. It begs the question "what's next"? In addition to reading valuable information, it is extremely interesting. I make no claim to being a historian but I enjoy thoroughly reading about the past, particularly WW2. I am anxiously awaiting the availability of "1942". I've been looking for a timeline- type book on the war and this sounds like it might be a cornerstone for something like that. To not be aware of what is going on in the ETO at the same time the Battle of Midway was going on. Good luck, Mr. Parshall. Persevere 111

[@AbananaPEEl]

After seeing History Buff's review of the latest Midway movie, I am eagerly awaiting yours to compare the two

[@DanColley-qy3wi]

Some time ago, I heard a statement made in this episode (and one or more additional episodes), that Admiral Yamamoto had his first plan to deal with the American aircraft carriers disapproved and what we are seeing is his SECOND effort. Is the content of his FIRST plan still available to ruminate over? Where could that plan be found?

[@jsorbieus]

I always wondered why Yamamoto thought he had to entice Nimitz to fight at Midway when it was clear that Nimitz was willing to fight at Coral Sea. Furthermore Port Moresby was a more worthwhile (IMHO) goal than Midway.

[@cladglas]

more evidence that he is one of the most over rated flag officers of the war.

[@gizmophoto3577]

As I recall, the Midway operation was well in the works before Coral Sea, so perhaps part of the answer is the sheer momentum of an existing decision.

[@austinlange7210]

True, but part of the IJN’s operational planning was springing a trap on the US fleet as they dashed out of Pearl Harbor to respond, so they wanted a target that was fairly close to Pearl in order to maintain the element of surprise and to pressure the US into acting rashly. The US Navy was the target; Midway was just a “conveniently” placed bait to lure the Navy out.

[@Philistine47]

It was a doctrinal blind spot. The IJN had spent decades assuming, as a matter of policy, that in any war with America they'd have to bait the USN into sailing out to give battle on terms favorable to the Japanese; and while Yamamoto showed himself willing to entertain out-of-the-box ideas on occasion, ultimately he was still a product of that planning and doctrinal environment. Likewise the massive, complicated operations with half a dozen fleets moving separately, hundreds or thousands of miles apart, with no real hope of coordination or mutual support - Yamamoto planned battles that way because that's how the IJN planned battles.

[@jamesstark8316]

Great point. I believe Nagumo's decisions were "colored" by the unexpected heavy land based air response from Midway. This interferred with the whole point of the entire operation - sink the remaining American carriers in the Pacific.

[@cyberfutur5000]

2:55:00 ish In his book "Japanese Destroyer Captain" Cptn. Harra described a situation, where his ship was surprised by US bombers and he ordered the ship to go to instant full speed without the usual steps to ensure the engine wont eat it self. This resulted in lots of thick dark smoke. The bombers missed, but thought to have sunk the destroyer, since all they could see through the bad weather was a seemingly burning destroyer, so they radioed in that they sunk it and went home. Stuff like that (pilots faking being shot down as well) is the closest I can think of to the kinda thing asked in the question.

[@davidcraig9938]

That book "In the Dark"...I would love to read that!

[@gdrriley420]

30:00 would have been a good place to fly the air group to Alameda NAS and cut 500 miles or about a day of sailing to get them closer 1:15:00 mk8,13,14 were all using alcohol

[@robertdendooven7258]

Would NAS Alameda have all the ordinance and provisions to load onto the Saratoga? The fighters of the VF-2 detachment did fly up to Bremerton to be on the journey to San Diego. The other thing is that Saratoga just didn't carry VF-2 and VS-3 out to Pearl Harbor but as cargo carried 4 F4F-4s, 43 SBD-3s, and 14 TBF-1s. You couldn't realistically fly all of those up to Alameda.

[@gdrriley420]

@@robertdendooven7258 yes, Alameda at the time was home to Fleet air wing 8 and was a common base for carriers to stop at

[@robertdendooven7258]

@@gdrriley420 But it is not where Saratoga's squadrons were based when she came to the West Coast for repairs. Was there even a Fleet Air Wing 8 in existence in the late Spring of 1942? I have never seen that organization mentioned in any of the books written about the early part of the Pacific War. Would it have shaved some time off of Saratoga being on the West Coast after repairs were finished? Yes, but were any of the people in charge of allocating aircraft and responsible for Carrier aircraft thinking that far in advance? I would say no and that is why Saratoga wasn't hurried up at San Diego to leave 4 or 5 days earlier than the actual date of June 1.

[@davidluck1678]

Midway battle plan was actually drawn up by his top staff officer, Kameto Kuroshima....and Yamamoto, always fascinated by plans with lotsa moving parts, lotta simultaneous objectives and so forth (some kind of general Japanese cultural thing also going on here) signed right onto it. Net/net: Naguma @ 8:30 AM, when the last attacks from Midway-based planes ended, found himself confronted with a terrible choice situation: get his strike aircraft armed and spotted for launch, then launched in the direction of the American naval force which he now knew was out there.....or spend the time landing his c. 100 circling Midway strike aircraft which were already beginning to run out of fuel and fall into the sea. Fatally, he chose to do the latter....and shortly after this was done (c. 9:40) the first of the American carrier-based torpedo plane attacks came in and the rest you know. Nagumo was a bad commander....he shorted his aviators @ Pearl harbor and again during the Indian Ocean Raid....but the Midway disaster was, as Parshall says, all on Yamamoto's plate.

[@victorydaydeepstate]

Wow! You brought out the big guns!

[@Brucev7]

1:30: 'we're coming up to half past 8...notorious for doing 4-6 hr streams...' Running Time near 3:15: )

[@HoverLambo]

Drach, remember that there was a lot of space between the 6ft deep beams required under the armoured flightdeck, they had plane parts, including wings, fuselage and engines allmarked on the plans. Although I havent found any pictures showing this area clearly, and they probably didnt have all that many.

[@johncarroll3457]

How the heck do I find these weird rabbit holes? Really enjoy these guys.

[@GrahamWKidd]

Today is the day I learnt that Drach = Alex!!!

[@mamarine81]

Yes! I was beginning to think I was the only one that caught that.

[@glennricafrente58]

04:17

[@CFarnwide]

My first thought… Drach doesn’t look like an Alex 😂

[@paulstreet9162]

@@CFarnwide Or call him Sandy or Paris

[@alowry2002]

Skip to 2:50 for the audio

[@thebutlersellsit]

Great interview and since your guest knew james hornfisher I have a new aurher to start follow. Thanks to paul jingles he turned me on to james hornfisher

[@ARDRI2009]

I recall a newspaper reporting after Coral Sea that the US Navy had cracked the codes which resulted in the IJN codes changing. Midway still went ahead.

[@ChristianReinholdt]

What a great guest!

[@blazodeolireta]

yep. Found him on that Kursk video. I know I'm here for a treat.

[@PalleRasmussen]

@@blazodeolireta that is where I encountered him as well, we became FB friends, and I suggested a couple of month back to Drach that they should do something together, then connected them. It pleases me a lot to see their cooperations.

[@alanrogers7090]

Someone, (I suspect Alex), kept moving the cursur around randomly and it was so distracting that I turned off my screen and just listened to the byplay.

[@crobert79]

where can we find the podcast drach did with james hornfisher which he mentions in this video?

[@Thumpalumpacus]

Halsey returns to command when he relieves Ghormley in Oct 1942. He was after his hospitalization for a hot moment air commander for Pacific iirc but that was a temporary billet understood as such. Halsey commanded 3rd Fleet with its flattops in 44-45.

[@hogey74]

My drinking game: a shot every time I find myself screaming "damn nerds!" During this chat. Madness ensues...

[@spikespa5208]

The question about Taffy 3 being at Midway: someone already in the middle of a drinking game.

[@leeroyjames7463]

I love the fact i'm at the half way point where he's saying "I do 4 hour hour streams", Jon saying "I'm not doing that" then looking at the video length 3 and a quarter hours xD

[@eldritchwulfe]

What is the name of the Japanese film about Midway? Can only find the 1976 and 2019 films

[@kevineastin7649]

I would have liked to ask if there are answers to questions to be found in the wrecks. What types of planes were being readied in the hangers etc.

[@TacoSallust]

Great stream, too bad I couldn't catch it live!

[@georgewnewman3201]

Wake Island US reinforcements: All reinforcements sent before 7 December were already on Wake. There were 450 or so Marines, 68 Navy and about 20 US Army personnel on Wake, plus over 1100 civilian contractors sent to build extra defensive facilities on Wake. The next wave of reinforcements were not sent out from Pearl until 15 December; by the time that force left Pearl, Wake had repelled one amphibious assault on 11 December, been subjected to daily air raids of long range land based bombers from the Marshall Islands starting on 8 December, and had 1-2 Carriers from the Kido Butai either parked on their doorstep or at most 2 days from being there flying multiple daily raids until 23 December when Wake was overrun by the second amphibious attack and surrendered.

[@davidcraig9938]

It's unusual that one soldier can contribute as much as Dick Best did in this epic battle and that the contribution can be so clearly confirmed. Dick sunk the Akagi and he killed the highly skilled torpedo squadron pilots that certainly would have retaliated and sunk both Enterprise and Hornet. Does anybody doubt this? So with two Japanese carriers afloat and 3 American carriers sunk, the Japanese still take Midway and Saratoga becomes the only surviving carrier in the Pacific...in dock at Pearl where she will probably stay for awhile. At this point, Nimitz never gets a carrier named after himself. Maybe there should be a carrier named U.S.S. Dick Best? The same with John Powers. Without John Powers at the Battle of Coral Sea and his suicide bomb drop, two more Japanese carriers are at Midway and we lose. 100% sure, no doubt about it!

[@awathompson]

Note, You could get into a dog fight with a Zero but you better keep your airspeed above 280 knot true airspeed. Above that airspeed the Zero's controls became very heavy. Like trying to move cement blocks.