Midwest Gaming Classic Single Board Computer Part 3 - The Z80 Note

[@JadarDev]

I just discovered this channel. I didn't realize how much I missed the Ben Heck Show! So glad you're still making content, man!

[@asusman7460]

Me to...

[@wakkowarner7391]

Just found this channel and glad to have Ben back in my life. Missed those hacks!

[@BrightSpark]

Ben Heck - The Joy of Soldering

[@olik136]

that soldering iron is the 2 inch brush of the surface component world :) ..... the only thing I am missing is the Louis Rossmann sea of flux

[@Muldrf]

I either want to go solder up a board, or do some painting. I am not sure which. :)

[@SimplyDudeFace]

Let's add a capacitor. It's your circuit board, you get to decide where it goes. My happy little cap goes over here.

[@BenHeckHacks]

RE: Flux. Not sure why, maybe it's the quick turnaround time, but Oshpark PCBs have a tendency to get really "sticky" after using lots of flux or cleaner. Thus I avoid using it as much as possible. I will bring flux syringes to the workshop though.

[@TravisWebb]

What about brush with a paste?

[@ryangrainger6271]

I always thought it was my flux that did that, but maybe you're right and it is Oshpark boards

[@TomStorey96]

I get this on boards from Chinese manufacturers as well. I think it's just flux in general, you just need to clean it a lot or leave it if it's no clean flux.

[@dragom3417]

I've missed this kind of Ben Heck video, it feels like the old skool stuff.. or maybe I just like watching him solder LOL

[@KingJellyfishII]

I'd certainly buy this as a kit, if it was made available.

[@alexthelion335]

Yeah me too

[@MrBatraaf]

One of the best videos on surface mount soldering.that I have ever seen. It actually gave me enough confidence to attempt a simple SMD project.

[@pwicks78]

Ben's going for that Bob Ross vibe today. Happy little chips.

[@IHeart16Bit]

Soldering is a skill i'd love to learn at some point. Watching people who are good at it is always very impressive.

[@intel1m]

You're a really great teacher for all this tech stuff. I Realy appreciate the time you spend on all your videos. Just because your videos I start to Solder my own electronics and getting better every time. Thank you Ben! Best wishes from Germany

[@MrSapps]

I'm taking note of this huge success, anyway the board is done its so surface and mounted. Now these lines of basic make a beautiful line and the board is soldered for the event on time. So I'm glad I watched this video think of all the things I learned for the Ben who is still alive.

[@mikekopack6441]

Thanks for teaching the surface mount soldering technique! I've always been deathly afraid of it because of the small sizes, but what you showed makes a lot of sense and took away my fear of it. Would love to build one of these to play with.

[@RisingRevengeance]

That soldering was very well explained, I will definitely make use of it in the future. Total noob at soldering here. I'm a decent welder and some of the tricks are similar.

[@whette_fahrtz]

Get a roll of kapton tape and you can stick components in place a little better before laying the solder down, it's an extra step and a bit fiddly but an extra "hand" so to speak for us novices is a huge help.

[@RisingRevengeance]

@@whette_fahrtz I'll keep that in mind, thanks!

[@1pcfred]

@Mr Guru wrong.

[@1pcfred]

@Mr Guru and that is why you cannot compare your experience to doing this. Because they're not the same thing. Clearly what Ben did worked. We have the video as evidence.

[@1pcfred]

@Mr Guru you think you're the only one with years of experience? I was assembling surface mount military coms gear at a board assembly house in the early 90s. I'd been soldering through hole for decades before that. I'm sure Ben has a few years experience himself. The flux in solder is enough.

[@pvc988]

It's hard to overstate my satisfaction.

[@Coloradoguy234]

This is actually a great way to introduce people to soldering. You should sell these as a kit. Teach a wider audience soldering and make some money on the side.

[@Drumada]

Super relaxing to watch! This is exactly what inspires me solder by "de-mystifying" everything going on. Time to go repair a broken speaker! Ps - as a lifetime metro-detroiter, it took me a shockingly long time (until my mid 20s) to realize that there was no "south" Detroit

[@klave8511]

I, on the other hand, was in great pain watching that sad soldering. I stopped the video after 4 minutes.

[@waltercomunello121]

You're like the super smart, likeable and nerdy tech teacher I've always wanted to have. This was a triumph, wasn't it.

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

"Most of the time, rubbing alcohol will suffice." Words to live by.

[@xnonsuchx]

I thought club soda always sufficed? ;-)

[@SmokeGrinder]

I was wondering if the convention had already happened bectause I was curious how it had turned out - Nope, cancelled. Stay safe and healthy.

[@LucasHartmann]

I sometimes use painter's tape to hold the chip in place while soldering the first two pins. The tape has enough give for small fixes, and is much easier to hold than the tweezers.

[@preferredimage]

A good 'rossman' amount of flux along those pads before you solder fixes all issues with bridging. and IPA fixes all flux issues!

[@BenHeckHacks]

Indeed will be bringing flux to the workshop as well!

[@azyfloof]

The Amtech flux Rossman uses is fantastic for drag soldering, too :D Just lay down bead of flux, get a blob of solder on the soldering iron tip and slowly drag it along the pins. Don't even need braid for cleanup afterwards :D

[@Codeaholic1]

Louis also uses a lot less then you'd think. It just looks like a a lot with the magnification.

[@macro820]

I think some flux would go a long way on those small pitch chips

[@ray30k]

Definitely. Just about every other youtuber I know that does this kind of soldering is like, "Three rules: flux, flux, and flux."

[@cosmicraysshotsintothelight]

A flux pen has a wiper type tip. All one needs do is wipe the pad frame one time. And place a tiny droplet of solder on the tip to fix the first pin. Then the diagonal opposite.

[@devil8975]

No flux? I've heard petroleum jelly will work in a pinch. I can't find non-corrosive flux in my area anywhere. Everything around here is for plumbing.

[@cosmicraysshotsintothelight]

@@devil8975 www.ebay.com/itm/KESTER-24-6337-0027-WIRE-SOLDER-031-RA-ROSIN-SN63-PB37-66-FLUX-44-CORE-1-lb-NEW/173905672242

[@bustopherjones2285]

@@cosmicraysshotsintothelight Not flux core solder. Actual flux in a gel or rework pen.

[@lmaoroflcopter]

Would love to buy this if you made it available as a kit

[@dragom3417]

Mr. Heck, can you sell this bundle as a build it yourself at home project?

[@Codeaholic1]

@Joe Blow or JLCPCB or PCBWay or or ;-)

[@0xc0ffea]

Kinda related ... Ben Eater has a breadboard computer kit with massive YT series that builds it up chip by chip.

[@AuDHDQ]

I don't think ben has ever released the plans to any of his projects

[@janbiedermann1398]

once again: one of the most entertaining ways to learn how to solder there is... apart from other videos like this from him... ^^

[@HokusaiXL]

I usually crazily clean my tip and use a little no clean flux to make the solder pull onto the iron tip. It's a lot faster that way with PS4 HDMI's since they have a similar pin pitch.

[@Alakazzam09]

This video seems strangely intimate. I like it.

[@JaredClarkBoaz]

That's why I love Ben's videos.

[@Codeaholic1]

I really wish I could go. Hopefully the gerbers and design files are up on github. I'd love to be able to build my own.

[@ralphyrocket5770]

Great Stuff! Like always! I saw the 15 decimal for the joystick value and I thought 4 least significant bits like atari...and you said it at the same time!!! It stays with ya!!!!

[@_lolucoca_9735]

Love that reference at the end!

[@sa230e]

Greetings from Windsor, Ontario.

[@eformance]

You should consider tenting the vias with solder mask, OSH does have that capability.

[@dparson]

Great idea, I was going to suggest the same thing. In case it's a help to anyone, I used this Eagle tutorial to tent the vias with OSH and never had a problem. Just search for 'tenting' on the page. www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/115

[@rootbeer666]

I do large pitch SMD chips with an even easier technique. I first tin all of the pads, making sure they don't have any tall blobs, then I brush on my liquid flux onto rows of pads and let it dry a little so it's not wet or runny. The liquid flux becomes sticky as it dries. I take advantage of the stickiness to literally line up and stick my components onto the board. Then with a clean iron tip I just heat a couple of pins to secure the chip into place (the amount of solder on the pads after tinning and the solder coating on the chip pins is more than plenty, no need to carry solder on your iron tip). Once I've got a couple of pins securing the chip in place I solder the rest by brushing the clean iron tip over each pin lengthwise, not side to side. This avoids solder bridges and the flux I brushed on the rows of pads also helps keeping solder bridges from forming. Quite foolproof.

[@devrim-oguz]

7:19 Man, Ben is so good, he is able to solder during an earthquake 😂

[@DannyWilliamH]

I can never get my solder wick to work as effectively as it does here (and others). I haven't tried that brand but I've tried fairly costly, highly recommended brands. It almost always just ends up with me having soldered the wick to the joint lol Is my iron too hot? Not hot enough? Am I just awful at soldering/desoldering? I have no idea at this point.

[@gianlucarenzi7706]

@29:20 Atari Reading pokey port values. It was 35 years ago. And the are still with me. Thanx for this remainder...

[@cosmicraysshotsintothelight]

Could place the resistor network on the back side elevated slightly and then lay it down next to the two chips. Low profile.

[@CoolFire666]

Is there going to be any way to get a kit of this project for people who can't make it to the conference?

[@youdud44]

Bob Ross, Steve1989, and Ben Heck. Three things I didn't think could be possible to have in one video yet alas, here we are. You love to see it.

[@billsixx]

Just a tip, tin your pads first, then apply a little solder paste....next, epoxy your packages to hold in place while soldering.

[@Decco6306]

I always find it humorous when people make a z80 board and there's a micro controller doing something small on it that out specs the z80 like 10 times over lmao

[@GamingHistorySource]

Would it be possible to interface something like this with a nintendo cart & make an expansion for the nes with it ?

[@christi198281]

Have you ever used a gull wing tip? The one with the tiny reservoir. PACE calls them the MiniWave tip. I have always had the best luck drag soldering with them. They are my favorite tip for any soldering actually.

[@DogRox]

That was actually fun and relaxing to watch. :-)

[@sidharthap]

Ya know... no matter what n e 1 says, I like your content, skills and your KZbin channel. You may not have kids (depending on how you c it, it's a blessing), you may b alone (again, depending on how you c it, another blessing), you may have a dermatophagia (I completely understand that thing... whatever. Even Paul over at Learn Electronics and Mike over at Mikeselectricstuff seem to suffer from this...) but I like your funnies, I admire your skill and envy your knowledge. I've been watching your content since b4 Alison (if memory serves me right!). God bless you Ben! 👍

[@Accolyte1]

Could you dab a tiny drop of super glue under the surface mount components like the atmega chip to hold it in place for soldering?

[@1337Shockwav3]

Recommendations for the final version: Cover your vias ;) And what about making the labels of the smaller ICs align with the orientation on the chip? Seems to be an eagle thing to only switch labels in their orientation rather than going in 90 degree steps (can be fixed by checking a box tho). Otherwise this seems like a really nice project, covers a nice span of packages for beginners (yes, SMD is no magic, I've gone as small as QFP208/0402 without ever learning how to solder in a course) with a final product that's interesting enough to keep people engaged. I also highly approve of the chip under chip approach with the DIP Z80 - compact designs (even tho PCBs are dirtcheap these days) is an art of it's own.

[@Mr_Meowingtons]

louis rossmann is shaking his head at the lack of Flux

[@1pcfred]

What Louis Rossmann is doing is different than what Ben is doing. There are similarities but also differences. Which you apparently are not appreciating. You could say what Louis works on is fluxed up.

[@lonnymoore2622]

i would love too build up this kit . please post links wen you have the kit up for sale . that looks like soo much fun .

[@SvenAlmgren]

In Putty you can make backspace send Ctrl+H instead of Ctrl+? under Terminal > Keyboard

[@Waltkat]

Love the content. But I kept whispering "flux" to myself every time Ben soldered something. Lol.

[@MobCat_]

11:11 You can put solder mask over a via right? could of sworn iv seen some retail products do that... most commonly apple cos apple got to be apple with there jet black pcbs

[@absalomdraconis]

Depends on the PCB fab house, and sometimes on whether you're willing to pay more.

[@torridice]

Ben’s like the Bob Ross of board stuffing

[@jeyjeywoolfolk1684]

Love watching your show

[@SegaSaturnSubs]

First time I went to Wisconsin I also thought the accent there sounded a bit Canadian, hehe. For a non-native English speaker such as me, I most noticed the diphtongs (like in "food", "good", and "lease") being more elongated than in other regions.

[@elipsorange]

Great stuff dude! I want to get something made by you, you are an inspiration!

[@nabilandadamslaboratory3422]

Why would the SD card module cause contention? Won't the signals coming out of it be at 5v? Where is the problem?

[@timrb]

I love it! The mighty Bens need to get together. Ben Hack, Ben Eater and BennVenn.

[@hene193]

Is the pcb files available somewhere? I kinda want to build one or two for myself

[@ingmarm8858]

OCD making me twitch but keeping it all to myself lol. Nice project overall, enjoyed watching the progress.

[@edabean007]

any chance of buying one of these in Australia?

[@Mobile_Dom]

+1 for UK

[@victorsidorov2335]

and +1 for RU

[@JaredClarkBoaz]

He's going to upload the files to his GitHub, so you can order, modify, or whatever you want with it

[@KuraIthys]

Yep. Z80 and 6502/65816 are still being made to this day. (Also ran into a brand new 68020 integrated into something - but whatever that was cost like $300) The 65816 even has a microcontroller variant that's only been available for like a year or two (I checked for 65816 availability like 2 years back and this variant didn't exist yet) The discrete 65816 you can currently get is a pin compatible version of the 65c816 that will work in anything designed for such a chip. It's rated for anything from a out 1.8 to 5.5 volt operation, with higher clock speeds possible at higher voltages. Officially it's a 14 mhz part but the vast majority of them are stable well into the 20 mhz range (though you probably want to check them individually if your design depends on this fact) The microcontroller version though? - it goes by the designation W65C265S So what does the microcontroller variant get you that the standard CPU doesn't have? Well, sadly, it's slower. Only 8 mhz instead of 14. (it's also twice the cost of the CPU only version) But, for that you get: - 2 Tone Generators - 64 I/O lines - 8k of built in ROM - 576 bytes of on-chip SRAM - WAIT and STOP lines - Fast oscilator start/stop feature - whole bunch of dedicated interrupt logic above and beyond what the CPU normally has - 4 UART's - Time of day clock function - 8, 16 bit timers/counters - Bus Control register - Extra bus features - 8 programmable chip select outputs And... For the first time, this has the entire 16 megabyte data bus of the 65816 broken out into a complete complement of address pins! (eg, no more external logic required to demultiplex the data/bus pins) If it weren't for the fact that it's slower than it's dedicated counterpart, it's pretty clear this thing has a lot of useful functionality for any new designs that you could build around a 65816... It's use of a full 24 line address bus also makes integrating it into designs less complicated...

[@Perseid]

For those of us coming to the workshop, is there a list of stuff we should bring, if anything?

[@hippynurd]

Its cool that you are showing how soldering technology really tries to make it hard to mess up, but seriously use thinner solder and quit blobbing it around so damn much. This is a great opportunity to show how to drag solder, and I like that you show cleaning up flux, you dont seem to add any. You could make nicer more consistent joints by using a little flux, but it comes at the cost of cleaning up more flux. Im kind of a minimalist, I try to use just enough solder and just enough flux, but always enough.

[@MrSapps]

there is flux in the solder so it still needs a quick clean

[@MrBuzzBrain]

I would love to buy a kit. Cheers from Norway.

[@Vizimech]

Those SRAM chips are no longer in production according to Mouser. Are there any logic and pin compatible alternatives that are in active production?

[@yuppiehi]

Soldering the ATMEGA chip - you really need to add flux. The built-in flux in the solder is not enough. You want to keep the solder liquified, and keep it from getting lumpy.

[@crides0]

Finally a guy that actually knows how to solder things properly. But still, better get the knife tip (slanted flat tip?). One thing though, why are your vias not buried? That would have made your life so much easier.

[@simonlagann8178]

is there a place i can order a kit from you? as i like to support your tech and videos.

[@JanEringa8k]

Would "tented" vias add to much to the board cost?

[@pnjunction5689]

Nope. I usually prefer my vias tented, but on a prototype it's handy to be able to solder bodge wires to them :-)

[@JanEringa8k]

@@pnjunction5689 - Fair point on the prototype issue & mod-ability. Still for the few that are under the Xtal or too close to pads, seems like a good idea :)

[@BenHeckHacks]

@@pnjunction5689 Haha indeed. I found a bunch of bodge wires on vias in the Sega Pluto I just worked on, video coming soon!

[@Gabriel-kz8ns]

Oh... I love when a plan comes together.... nice work! You know that this project is 10 orders of magnitude better than all of the 'last job' combined over the entire period since you left, right? haha (and almost same proportion on combined views as well ;p)

[@evensgrey]

I unsubbed from them after seeing what they were going to be doing afterwards.

[@NicolauWerneck]

"Happy little clouds" :D

[@DavidWilliams-dh4kj]

Dr. Strangehack or: how I learned to stop worrying and love the surface mounts...

[@JustinCole45]

I’ll have to catch the next workshop!

[@noobFPV]

That is some awesome wick you have.

[@bonnome2]

I personally solder these qfp type of smds by putting flux on the pins, put solder on the tip and just drag it across.

[@wmoecke]

+Ben Heck Hacks, I was wondering: I wouldn't be able to attend on April 3th (because I don't live in the USA), so perhaps would it be possible for me to register for the event (even though I'm not attending) and pay the fee, just to be able to get the parts and PCB for this SBC shipped to me?

[@BenHeckHacks]

The workshop is nearly sold out so I wouldn't recommend you do that. Don't worry the parts will be available in the future!

[@wmoecke]

@@BenHeckHacks good thing for me to ask you first! Will be looking forward for those parts to become available.

[@BunnyuK92]

Is this hole “package” only available at the event or will it be something that can eventually be brought online?

[@ithaca2076]

Files will be put on GitHub so you can order it yourself. But you'll need to buy your own Parts

[@donaldwright2426]

Nice project! Nice work!

[@TboneLoyal]

Happy little solder balls. See everyone can solder. Let’s just use this solder wick to mop up the traces here. Now so this resistor isn’t lonely we will put another one right over here. Ben Ross. :)

[@reddcube]

SIP resistor arrays are great.

[@hexidimentional]

its a lot easier if you tin the pads and then flow the chip on with a heat gun ben, letting the surface tension seat and position the chip

[@adonian]

why is this so soothing

[@diegfb2001]

I felt nervous and anxious watching this guy tryng to soldering without flux XD

[@SeanChYT]

Maybe you can make the vias tented? Doesn't cost anything extra at my preferred pcb fab.

[@scharkalvin]

Did you pre-program the Atmel chip, or just didn't show us you connecting the ISP. (Hope you have an ISP connector there).

[@BenHeckHacks]

I flashed it through the SD card header.

[@scharkalvin]

@@BenHeckHacks Oh yeah, I forgot that the ISP shares the SPI bus. Cool! Course' you still have to bodge the AVR reset to the programmer somehow.

[@BenHeckHacks]

@@scharkalvin Indeed. I added a single header pin for RESET to attach to.

[@saddle1940]

You must be sick of this suggestion but, use flux to ball up the solder! Your solder on the pins of the Atmel might not last, as you heated some of them 5 times without flux.. Use a solder tip with a concave dimple in the tip and walk it along the pins. Dip your solder wick in flux too, it works waaaay better. I do like the look of the board. All it needs is sound and a video output for a complete gaming box.

[@alienozi]

This project reminds me of the i8080 but with discrete transistors.

[@fnjesusfreak]

Confirming: that version of BASIC supports &H for hex-to-decimal conversion, and AND, OR, XOR, etc. are 16-bit bitwise operations.

[@ЕвгенийВолошко-ц9ы]

Это великолепно! Хочу быть таким, как ты, когда вырасту))

[@mcg6762]

Really cool project! Maybe do a 6502 version as well?

[@iloveshw]

Hey Ben, binged the whole 3 parts. Are you planning to do a follow-up video with changes you mentioned at the end of this video/release code and schematics on GH?

[@mohinderkaur6671]

Q: Is it possible to use Atmega644 - with pin changes ofcourse? Why not use solder paste- with solder+paste and solder using your toaster oven? Soldering with a toaster oven is the easiest thing to do ever. Are the files available anywhere yet? github etc?

[@SlyEcho]

There is a setting in putty to send ^H on backspace.

[@MisterRorschach90]

Would you be able to make a custom mini motherboard for a pentium 3 or original Xbox? That would be so cool.

[@FrankenLab]

Where is the BOM and schematic for this, is there a github link?

[@peberdah]

Why not a larger display as large as the board on it's reverse.

[@FixedUntilBroken]

You animal putting the resistors on upside down. I prefer to get my PCBs tinned from the factory. awesome video though I enjoyed it.

[@ZaPpaul]

Soldering SMD like this is much easier with flux, please people, use flux and plenty of it.

[@lmaoroflcopter]

Flood the cowling!

[@tehrobotjesus]

Thank you! I wish someone had shouted this at me years ago. Lots of flux, and a hoof tip.

[@feicodeboer]

Right, look at the Louis Rossman and Paul Daniels repair videos. Just flood it with flux.

[@1pcfred]

There is flux in rosin core solder. It may not be enough for some folks but it is enough for others.

[@jonmayer]

Your braid seems to suck up solder really fast. What temp is your iron at Ben?

[@tenpencearcade1162]

Such a shame the event has been (understandably) cancelled. Hope this project gets to all it's potential builders at a later date!