Mike Patton: Why Do His Melodies Sound Like That?

[@Jonobueno]

This intervallic technique is exactly what jazz soloists do. Mike knows his stuff.

[@CarlKingdom]

If he knows his stuff, I suspect it's only intuitively. He's got an incredible ear.

[@boiling.euphemism]

An interview with Mike Patton on this channel would be amazing.

[@CarlKingdom]

Thank you!

[@ZaGaZigZag]

Yes, absolutely. Please try to make that happen, it would be great.

[@jwilborn27]

This was interesting! Yes, Patton is definitely the GOAT of singers.

[@radshoesbro]

I'm so glad you brought up The Last to Know. Easily one of my all time favorite Patton vocal melodies and a song that I think gets very overlooked by far too many people. When they did their original reunion I was so happy it made it into the setlist.

[@CarlKingdom]

Great song and wild Lydian Dominant solo.

[@nelnich4445]

Wow!!! Great observations. I never realized, he sings them so perfecty, I never realized what he was doing

[@CarlKingdom]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[@nelnich4445]

I would love for you to analyze some of his odd harmonies

[@jeanio2010]

I love his note choices. Maybe he does it to add a little complexity or just make it a little bit more eerie. But no matter the reason, it makes the songs better.

[@CarlKingdom]

Agreed!

[@metalmanny666]

Plus you’re such a hottie. Makes me wish I met a hottie just like you who’s also a Mike Patton fan

[@arsmor1end1]

I feel like Trey answered this in your interview with him (feel free to drop the link to that): his theory being that while they were in Trevor's basement as kids, while Trey and Dunn nerded out and noodled through the dissonant boundaries of music theory, Patton intuitively learned to sing poppy, bi-tonal melodies over the top. And as Trey said, it's not just a "natural" thing for Patton anymore; he knows what he's doing. The only melody I've heard Patton "miss" live was Retrovertigo. It would be interesting to hear a breakdown of Dunn's song structure, and why it might have confounded Mike (he did nail it with Mondo Cane a few years ago).

[@CarlKingdom]

I'd love to sit Patton down and test his ability to sing various intervals and arpeggios, and have him explain what his internal visualization is. Purely to satisfy my curiosity.

[@DARKHORSEMUSICOFFICIAL]

Thanks for this... Very interesting & yes, it sits with my own theory that Mike's 'non formal' approach but enthusiasm to collaborate regardless (of his non music training) produced(s) unique results... I mentioned a similar collabroship (*new word lol!) with Roddy from F. N. M who I feel has a unique slant on quirky melodies also...

[@DARKHORSEMUSICOFFICIAL]

@@CarlKingdom Aah Carl ya gotta do this! Reach out to Ipecac his label (Greg Werckman - Co producer ). I think Mike might just be open to it as a unique experiment!

[@arsmor1end1]

@@DARKHORSEMUSICOFFICIAL Patton has a GIANT voice (decibel level) to go along with his strong inner sense of dissonance/(false, but seeming) consonance. True, Roddy was the closest thing he had to a friend in FNM, but given his youth, he was merely establishing his performative base in the early '90s. There's a great "Turning Point" interview where Patton talks about Zorn's influence on his conception of vocal performance. Can post a link if you're interested, but pretty easy to find on YT.🤙🏼

[@arsmor1end1]

@@DARKHORSEMUSICOFFICIAL Regarding this point...if Carl had to verbally prostrate himself at the beginning of Trey's interview, ain't no way Patton will give Carl even a perfunctory, "Thank you for your inquiry" form letter, let alone join him to dissect his vocal qualities/abilities.

[@MiloshVictory]

I'm detecting a Mike Pattern

[@CarlKingdom]

That’s really good!

[@allenandrews2380]

Knowing where the chord is going to resolve can make those choices make a lot more sense as well. " blue notes" are like a weird bridge from one chord to the next. He's also awesome at whole tones. See " Hollywood squares" with dillinger.

[@Burglekutt3000]

He said he listened to The Real Thing every morning for 41 years gosh damn this is my favorite KZbin video of all time

[@TeariiDeflesselle]

Absolutely interesting ,thank you Carl

[@CarlKingdom]

Very much appreciated. Glad you were interested in it as much as I was.

[@TeariiDeflesselle]

@@CarlKingdom I was and I'm also passionnate about Jim Martin's work! Here is my cover of Caffeine : kzbin.info/www/bejne/hpaUZqN6hLCUsNk

[@diotenchi]

This video was awesome!

[@CarlKingdom]

I appreciate it!

[@claesvanoldenphatt9972]

In Aïnulindalë, J. R. R. Tolkein’s cosmogonic prelude to the Silmarillion, all the Valar and Mayar sing together with Eru, the One, in the collective artistic act of the creation of the cosmos. They all sing harmoniously except for Melchior, who sings a dissonant theme against all the other voices. Mike Patton is Melchior, AKA Morgoth.

[@allenandrews2380]

I think I sang a tri tone or something. I believe I was born with that proclivity. I've always appreciated that about Patton and Claypool.

[@gregautry2421]

Interesting. I've always loved 9ths in my own playing and I wonder if this is the origin. I was Bungle/FNM obsessed when I was finding my musical footing, and I wonder if my affinity for 9ths was born in that period.

[@CarlKingdom]

These are good things to think about, Greg. This is why I think theory is so helpful. We can catalogue the things we like so we can use them in the future. Your interest in 9ths might go back to when you were even younger.

[@DARKHORSEMUSICOFFICIAL]

You're spot on... I noticed his unconventional vox melodies from Angel Dust onwards... Maybe he and Roddy (keyboardist) discussed a lot of these melodies to be intentionally different; Roddy's own melodies (and ideas! *e.g. the music box interlude in 'Malpractice' ) are especially unique & quirky too in the 'rock' genre so I think they may have collaborated uniquely in this regard...

[@CarlKingdom]

My own suspicion is that the majority of writing in Faith No More was Billy Gould, but I really don't know what I am talking about. That's all hearsay and speculation.

[@CarlKingdom]

What I mean is, as opposed to Roddy. That was only my guess.

[@Typical.Anomaly]

I'mma sub just because I'm a diehard Patton fanboi. I'm a theory geek too but yeah... everything that dude performs makes the Universe either dance or writhe in pain lol

[@madam_im_adam]

Very interesting analysis, I've also noticed a lot of his melodies that are generally in a minor key resolving on the major 3rd, creating that aforementioned tension - I'm thinking the verse melody in Smaller and Smaller for one example. Do you have any insights on Trey's solo in Last To Know? It sounds like some kind of variation on a mode but I'm not schooled in such things..

[@CarlKingdom]

Yes! Trey’s solo on Last To Know is Lydian Dominant. It’s a major scale but with a sharp 4 and flat 7. And he plays it over a blues riff. So there’s additional tension there.

[@madam_im_adam]

@@CarlKingdom Thanks Carl! I may be wrong but I recall that he also omits one of the notes from the scale like the 3rd or the 5th or something? I may be mis-remembering..

[@CarlKingdom]

I learned that solo note for note a few years ago and at the time it was strictly Lydian dominant. I’d have to go through it all again to verify.

[@mm091540]

thanks for putting into words what i could only have felt... somehow

[@jtlemay4878]

Saw an interview were trey says Mike studied elton johns melodies when he was young

[@CarlKingdom]

Trey did mention something about Elton John when we talked about Patton in the Trey interview.

[@arsmor1end1]

Yeah, not "studying," just able to sing. I wonder how many 9ths are in Elton's catalog?

[@pillmuncher67]

I sang the sixth, but I play a lot of Western Swing these days, so that was to be expected.

[@CarlKingdom]

There's honestly no predicting what bizarre note I would sing. It could be anything, because I don't have an intuitive internal connection to the pitch of my voice.

[@daneclarkcollins]

I've always heard "truth." "Soul" never occurred to me.

[@BenHotzOfficial]

The consistent use of 9th intervals is an interesting find! I feel a similar effect listening to Keith Moon's drumming. They're both untrained musically, with little to no education. But they have the natural talent and creativity to produce strong musical passages that are also off kilter due to their lack of theory.

[@CarlKingdom]

Agree with everything you said, except for one tiny thing... the "due to" the lack of theory. I think it's more "in spite of." Outrageous amounts of wild music have been composed by people with deep theory knowledge. I will need to check out some Keith Moon because I am almost entirely not familiar! Thank you.

[@SeriousRodger]

Should've examined the note choice during the "I am what I've done" section at the end of Jizzlobber. It twists your brain.....

[@CarlKingdom]

I will make a note of that for a future episode. This one was all about 9ths. Not sure what intervals are happening there. It’s been a long time. Thank you for the suggestion!

[@dxfifa]

The essence of the Trooow hoouth is how he sings it. It's definitely not soul

[@trieme]

My bet is: music theory was invented to study Mike Patton's musical talent.

[@CarlKingdom]

I like this idea! Because that's mostly what I use it for.

[@trieme]

@@CarlKingdom I really liked your analysis on Patton's melodic lines. Do you plan to say something's about Bordin's beats? They leave me intrigued. Heard he uses african rhythms.

[@kosmokramer5420]

I don't know why this channel doesn't have way subscribers

[@CarlKingdom]

I don't either! But I'm also not complaining.

[@joshs.6608]

Interesting to know that his melodies are unusual... though I highly doubt he knows music theory so that could have arrived subconsciously and independently.

[@ryn5671]

What melodies :)

[@CarlKingdom]

I'm not sure what you are asking! There are 5 melodies in the video.

[@jasonscovel7775]

Predisposition to dorian.

[@CarlKingdom]

That idea has got my brain gears turning. Thank you.

[@arsmor1end1]

Maybe on a few of these songs. Now try Moonchild with Zorn.

[@waytospergtherebro]

Why do rapidly balding Millennials think that brightly-colored novelty eyewear will make them appear youthful and creative?