Military Grade LPVO for you: SIG Tango6T

[@Moondog2A]

If you wondered how a Budget LPVO compares to this SIG, well... kzbin.info/www/bejne/rnqWdn-VYraiZ9Usi=eVkpLO1OHpcaFPS8

[@peteregger7928]

I have the Tango4 which has lived in its box for years now! The reticle is unusable below about 1.5-2.0x. The illumination is nonexistent and barely seen indoors with a fresh battery. Many were complaining about it when it was released so it wasn't just an issue with mine. Looks like some improvement has been made on the illumination showcased in this video but that FFP reticle at low power does not look to be improved on the Tango6. The Army purchasing that thing leads me to believe that a lot of palms were greased!

[@Moondog2A]

The downside to these "red dot" bright FFP LPVOs (Vortex Razor HD, Nightforce ATACR, etc) is battery life. There is no free lunch. Trijicon worked around that by using a full sized lithium AA instead of a coin battery.

[@peteregger7928]

@@Moondog2A I think so long as you're using a Lithium you're good. Alkaline's rot and leak quickly especially in temperature extremes.

[@TrollinCrazyRussian]

Military grade = lowest bidder meeting requested specs😂

[@angelavila8722]

Don’t forget the price is marked up ~3x because the government is buying.

[@Moondog2A]

Tru. And whoever is throwing the Brass and their wives better parties.

[@borkwoof696]

And that’s good so long as the requirements are high

[@msquared9605]

You say that like it’s a negative. You make a list of demands, company A meets your demands and says each unit will cost $1,000. Company B meets your demands and says each unit will cost $1,100. Who are you gonna pick

[@Moondog2A]

@@msquared9605 Tru. But sometimes the better product that exceeds specs isn't chosen because the company that won the bid undercut them. I don't want to open a can of worms but the SIG 320 vs Glock 19x comes to mind.

[@brazzy1467]

I have two of these lpvo's one on my AR-10 16" 308 DMR and one on my AR-15 16" 5.56 DMR. Both have Noveske barrels in them and out to 600 yds both are spot on. Great optics

[@Moondog2A]

About how many rounds have you put through them?

[@brazzy1467]

@@Moondog2A my AR-10 I just replaced the barrel told barrel had just over 9k. The new barrel just over 400 ish. The 5.56 is at 72 or 73 hundred. I've gotten 12k out of the Noveske CHF chrome lined barrel when I started to see accuracy issues. My buddies and I shoot almost every weekend.

[@Moondog2A]

@@brazzy1467 That is well utilized

[@joeygay7115]

I agree. I've got one and it's a really nice optic

[@MattH-wg7ou]

I feel like I'm under-utilizing my Noveske N4 Light Recce complete...with only a red dot.

[@coreyperez13]

Wow, just stumbled on you. Severely underrated reviewer. Great content!

[@Moondog2A]

Much appreciated! Hope you subscribed.

[@othnielbendavid9777]

Great demonstration and articulation of the capabilities of the scope. Thanks!

[@Moondog2A]

Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for subscribing.

[@Amite-zg2ob]

Sig must have a great Washington lobby crew

[@Moondog2A]

No doubt

[@boinger1988]

yeah, she must be really hot!

[@charlesmartin4535]

The Big Guy.

[@EspritBerlin]

What a nice presentation! Thanks!

[@Moondog2A]

Danka! Hope you subscribed

[@kevinhullinger8743]

Thanks for the review I’ll spend my money on ammo 👌🏻

[@Moondog2A]

Wise choice

[@fuzzyreticle]

The primary arms PLX 1-8 is definitely a better optic for less $.

[@PFNasz]

Interesting, did you have them side by side? At the club (MANY SHOOTERS) the Tango 6 only lost to the Vortex Razor 1-6 the swaro and Kahles 1-6.

[@Moondog2A]

Side by side to a Razor and Kahles? No. But compared to the Razor HD 1-10x, I thought the SIG Tang6T has a flatter image.

[@PFNasz]

@@Moondog2A I am sorry, we did at the club. The three mentioned beat the SIG, as they should have.

[@PFNasz]

@@Moondog2A I said 1-6 on Razor.

[@BS25999]

Great video, I like the relaxed approach and slightly lower speed of the review. More grown up somehow than a lot of the shooting reviewers.

[@Moondog2A]

I was a lot more hyper in my 20's. LOL. Thanks. Hope you subscribed for more laid back reviews.

[@imkeerock]

I got a Primary Arms GLX 1 - 10 FFP for $800. This SIG lpvo is nice but seems like half the lpvo for twice the price. The military probably got a killer deal on them since they're going with new SIG pistols and rifles now. Great review by the way. Does this lpvo have auto on/off motion sensor?

[@Moondog2A]

PA has great customer service too. That said, so does SIG. And no, unfortunately this does not have the MOTAC auto-off like the Tango6 long range scope.

[@JWallace004]

$1600 is a spicy meatball!

[@Moondog2A]

Mama mia!

[@MattH-wg7ou]

🤌

[@F150customs]

Thats more than the price of my rifle 😂😂😂

[@mobilegamersunite]

Discoveropt now makes ED glass scopes that ive been very impressed with so far

[@Moondog2A]

I'm going to be testing a Discovery LPVO soon. Be sure to subscribe and hit the bell icon.

[@mobilegamersunite]

@MoondogIndustries I think u know I'm subbed breh

[@echoauxgen]

I have two of older same brand but my thoughts are the radical has to bigger at 1x for even the size at 6X would be a good starting size. I use one for deep woods deer. rabbit and squirrel on a .22 ! As for Deer hunting in thick woods it is great for acquiring and zooming in. Even for powerline shooting, using radical bars either the zero at 100yds then using the next line down for a 50yrd or 200yrd and so on. Why I say 50yrd is very seldom is there a 100yrd shot even from a stand but for power line and open field yes each hash bar is deadly out to 300 to even 500yrds but at 6x. There is a 2x multipower add on for the front making this style scope up to 12x, making 2x to 12x. The perfect deer scope except at dusk when they are moving the most so you will be in the dark sooner if in the woods. I put one on my AK and 5.56 ranch rifle very deadly in good light for put the red dot on a shoulder no matter the range using the correct hash. I used on a secondary airfield out to the 500yrd with a coke can on a barrel while on a .35 Whelen 220 grain zeroed at 100yrds. The Strelok Pro has the scope radical and can do most any ammo ballistic info bullet placement even the 30 or 50yrd placement, many miss at those two ranges for aiming to low or high. Lastly no matter the size of the hash marks putting the bullet in the area at 1x it will hit there, we are too used to seeing the hair clearly vs iron sight shooting. The nice thing with the mounting is easy to remove for a bigger scope for cotton and corn field hunting.

[@Moondog2A]

Great feedback. I hope you subscribe and chime in on future videos. I wish LPVO makers would make a hunting reticle just as you described, with a thick 1x reticle more like a SFP LPVO.

[@0megaJB]

I picked up a 6T from Sig it was a display model for under $900 it didn't come with a mount but it's been great so far.

[@Moondog2A]

That's a deal. I like their Alpha mount but is overpriced IMHO. I'd throw this on a Monstrum mount for day to day use or if I was competing I'd put it on a Warne.

[@jefflemaster2850]

It definitely has some nice features, but a little spendy for most people

[@Moondog2A]

100% Hope you subscribed

[@hawaiiangunner]

I want a micro Prizm fixed 10 power with a red dot on top. That would totally destroy the lpvo market

[@Moondog2A]

I suspect any 10x would have a terrible eyebox.

[@stick3024]

very nice - sig optics have really improved

[@Moondog2A]

Which SIG optic were you disappointed with?

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Yeah finished 3rd in SF trials picked because of cheap cost. Right off many broke within the first few months of being issued.

[@Clockwork0nions]

lol

[@Moondog2A]

Remember kids MilSpec = Lowest bidder. What were the other optics in the trials?

[@poortac5568]

LPVOs are fragile. There is a reason no one will drop their rifle, with one attached. the tube body will bend. I like them for a dmr rifle, but they are not durable compared to a red dot or eotech.

[@Clockwork0nions]

@@poortac5568 You don’t think DOD testing includes a drop test? lol

[@poortac5568]

@@Clockwork0nions Im sure they did to some degree, but Id like to see someone do it on video. If you can find a video of a high end scope, getting dropped on the ocular lens end, while attached to a rifle, Id love to see it. Scope bodies and known for bending when dropped. Too much leverage, not enough structural support.

[@nategoodwin3329]

I'm still seeing 1,700+ before tax. That's wild.

[@Moondog2A]

Where's that deal? 1700 for the full package with the ALPHA mount?

[@FLIGHT762]

@ 2.46, you say the adjustments are .2 MOA per click, but the markings say .2 MRAD per click.

[@Moondog2A]

Good catch on my Biden moment. I mixed up and mispoke. It's an MRAD scope.

[@Ripper13F1V]

I don't understand it. 1-10 sure. But not on a DMR. DMR's really need more magnification past 300 yards. Admiditedly on a standard grunts rifle over that of a ACOG. But feel that other options exist at 1-8 that have a nuclear bright recticle that is usable at 1x. I just don't see it especially at the price.

[@Moondog2A]

Traditional Service Rifle competitions are run with targets at 600yrds and have a rule limiting magnification to 4.5x so you don't "need" 10x technically.

[@codycarden7266]

I really like the sfp with hellfire reticle version of this optic. If they remain durable, it'll be a win

[@Moondog2A]

For a fiber reticle, I'd consider the cheaper Primary Arms Nova

[@3231bsln]

​@MoondogIndustries lower tier in every way, though, correct? That variant was available for 999 a couple of weeks ago, btw.

[@codycarden7266]

@3231bsln it has a field of view penalty for added durability to interior components as compared to a razor. But the sfp tango probably matches in eyebox and light transmission about the same weight as well. Tango has the same awesome controls as the razor and probably better turrets and definitely better zoom ring. If your philosophy wants durability, I recommend military contract stuff

[@codycarden7266]

@3231bsln Looks like about 1500 on optics planet right now, I got mine for 1250, also whatever you go with, try to get the lifetime warranty models

[@renatosureal]

10:07 @10:00 "**Why they chose 1x6**" while I can't know for sure, but maybe the reason why military picked 1x6's instead of 1x10's FFP is based on reasons I've seen explained elsewhere on YT whereas the greater the difference between the min/max (10x) favors the appearance of lens distortion [ chromatic aberration ] at greater magnitudes, tending to be neutral halfway. Also, because of this difference, objects contour's fine lines begin to fade/blur as ones approach greater magnitudes. Another reason refers to the excessive thickening / narrowing of the reticle due to the 10x difference between max/min, respectively. _That's what I've heard_

[@Moondog2A]

What type of LPVO magnification would you choose?

[@renatosureal]

@@Moondog2A I remember me in the military way back in the days ... a 7,62 FAL with old-style non-LPVO scope (which I prefer due to the fact that in combat ones may not have batteries available), OIP/DFV 3,6x fix !!, mounted on a non-Picatinny rail directly on the top cover ... an ancient piece of optics in today's time... the goal was to enable a well-trained/skilled infantryman to hit a value target at 800 m (a 200m gain from max 600m open sight, at best) - 800m is a lot of distance; each platoon was issue 3 of them, one for each squad. Nowadays, I've heard on YT testimonies of the challenges US troops faced in Afghanistan to hit guerrilla in the surrounding higher ground while patrolling in the valleys below; and also, urban combat where there were some value targets hidden in mid-range windows that were difficult to hit using std issued weaponry... maybe these days every infantry man needs a scope, not only 3 per platoon. My thinking is ... there should have had a tactical reason for issuing a 1x6 to the regular/special infantryman rather than 1x10 (Just recently I saw your other SIG TANGO 1-10x review; disappointing at 10x !!) and I think that reason is/was ... 1x10 is simply too much!! for the most likely mid-range combat scenario, as above, and also the vision problems it brings (eye box shadowing, chromatic aberrations, and other lens related issues) ... 1x6 is plenty for those mid-range practical distances up to 400-500m (as per 5,56x45mm cal goes). As for me ... an average joe ... despite the fact I don't have all resources to compare them exhaustively ... the more and cheapest ... the merrier (ehehe) May we settle on a 1x8, perhaps ? 😉

[@cliffords2315]

Man i love those scopes but I Hate the $2,100 prices range

[@Moondog2A]

Agreed

[@chrisallen2792]

Bushnell got the best LPVO for the money. Bang for buck. Amazed I only paid less then 300$

[@Moondog2A]

My vote would be the Arken EP8 for 329 amzn.to/46h3R2y

[@chrisallen2792]

@@Moondog2A I’ll take a look at it.

[@theitalian556]

Debating between this and the Vortex Razor 1-6 Leaning Razor

[@Moondog2A]

I like the reticle at 1x better in the SIG. But honestly both kinda suck at 1x.

[@theitalian556]

@@Moondog2A Gotcha, thanks for the feedback. I've kinda been all over the place on deciding what I want for an optic haha. I think Ill rotate a Razor & Eotech.

[@davidkahler1311]

I'll stick with my Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6x24. As a Veteran Vortex gives 40% off. A no brainer for me.

[@Moondog2A]

I forgot about the Vet and LEO discount. I'm sure SIG also offers similar?

[@MrH00nel2]

i got one on a sig spear lt and love it.

[@Moondog2A]

Good pairing

[@user-sq6iw5pw4e]

Im just curious if this is truly worth 10x the price of the Tango-MSR which has basically the same reticle.

[@Moondog2A]

The Tango6T is in a whole different league optically. The Tango MSR is meh. kzbin.info/www/bejne/faSagpZuqZKCqZY

[@user-sq6iw5pw4e]

@@Moondog2A I bought an $1800 Nightforce and I honestly like my $300 Tango MSR better for faster target acquisition. On longer range shots the nightforce is better, but not 5x the price better.

[@Moondog2A]

@@user-sq6iw5pw4e I agree, SFP reticles are much better for an LPVOs.

[@SonotCali]

New here, just wanted to know what phone holder you are using. Great video loving the review.

[@Moondog2A]

Its' a phone rig for telescopes that I would NOT recommend because it's a pain to use and can't take any recoil. Hope you subscribed.

[@leealan4312]

Military often means lowest bidder who lined the proper pockets. I mean does anyone in their right mind think the Geissele or Sig rifles are better than a Knights Armament, LMT, BG Defense, LWRC, or Sword Defense? News flash not likely. Similarly there are many better optics on the market.

[@Moondog2A]

Good points. Hope you subscribe and make future comments. Which you do think are better optics?

[@e13m10]

I always know who's video I'm watching by that pole across the street. Do you ever get visits from the od for scoping the neighbors?????

[@Moondog2A]

I can tell you my neighbors think I"m weird for looking at the hill every week.

[@willepete0088]

I have hands on with the sixT(In the military), It’s mid as far as LPVOs. I would have gone with a swampfox or a Truglo honestly. The unfortunate truth is quality control problems as far SIG and the military right now. Get a swampfox and save the money.

[@Moondog2A]

Swampfox is good. Also like Primary Arms better for its reticle and improved glass but man have the prices on them gone up.

[@tlcrodeo768]

2:45 I think you meant 0.2 MRAD, not MOA..

[@Moondog2A]

You're right. It was a Biden moment.

[@yugbe]

I'm a bit disappointed by the glass on this one, for the price.

[@Moondog2A]

Agreed. But to be fair, the Vortex Razor HD also has chromatic aberration and more fish-eye.

[@toddjenest3212]

$3k for a 1-6? No thanks. I'll stick to my $400 Vortex.

[@Moondog2A]

Which Vortex is that?

[@XiaoPP1]

Glass not Vortex Razor sharp.

[@Moondog2A]

Or bright as 10x but the 1x is better than the Razor.

[@GodZji]

Mine doesn't come with the mount but I got the military version in BLACK.

[@Moondog2A]

That's the same with my Sheriff buddy, he put his on his own mount.

[@carlbunner5515]

Appears to be narrow field of view compared to my lpvo

[@Moondog2A]

Which LPVO do you run?

[@carlbunner5515]

@@Moondog2A i run two my coyote gun i have swampfox 1-10. My get er done gun i have athlon midas . Im a sfp guy , old eyes and ffp is useless to me on low settings. Plus hard charging coyotes in brush with ffp even with good eyes on low settings would be useless

[@Moondog2A]

@@carlbunner5515 The Midas BTR is great! , I'm working on a review of that as well but the weather hasn't been cooperating.

[@mohsenraghian210]

$2,199. Nuff said.

[@poortac5568]

Still waiting for someone to drop their $2000 LPVO, while attached to a rifle, upside down. My budget scopes all bent where the magnification ring meets the tube body. They are 6061-T6 just like the higher end scopes. Every “test” I can find is bias, because they only drop it when it’s not attached to an 8 pound rifle.

[@Moondog2A]

I don't think any "high end" LPVO will reliably survive a 8lb rifle drop. But Vortex and SIG have pretty good "replacement" warranties.

[@poortac5568]

@@Moondog2A I agree and a warranty is great. I just hear a lot of youtubers and companies talking about how durable their high end LPVOs are. When in reality, I doubt they would do any better than the “budget” options. Im currently trying to source one to test 🤞😂

[@Moondog2A]

@@poortac5568 100% To be fair, there is a lot more ruggedizing inside the mechanical parts of the turret and glass on premium scopes that help it hold zero from recoil and presumably more QC. But any drop that will dent the tube or break the lens is going to do that on a expensive scope just as easily as a budget one.

[@poortac5568]

@@Moondog2A agreed, thats probably why companies wont send me one to break/test 😂 I appreciate your videos 👍

[@danielbell4007]

Marksman is the lowest qualification. Marksman = minimum expectation.

[@Moondog2A]

Good point. Like Military Grade = lowest bid

[@i556xx4]

A 1-8 or 1-10 probably has too small of an eye box/relief

[@Moondog2A]

The Razor and Panzer 1-10x I've tested had decent eye relief. The eyebox was as you said: unforgiving.

[@GryphonArmorer]

NO SFP!!! But for Designated Marksman, they should have 10x. The 6x would be good for the line grunt. Puts the whites of their eyes further out. 😉😎

[@Moondog2A]

Are you saying they should NOT make a SFP version of this scope?

[@GryphonArmorer]

@@Moondog2A absolutely. FFP is much easier to range and adjust holds because it eliminates a lot of math and errors because unlike SFP everything stays the same no matter what magnification you are on or zeroed at.

[@JMark-zk5pj]

I will stick with my Leupold.

[@Moondog2A]

Which one you got, the Patrol 6?

[@fw1421]

And who makes it for Sig?

[@Moondog2A]

From what I heard, SIG gets the glass from Japan, the components from China, and assemble it here in the USA.

[@fw1421]

@@Moondog2A thanks!👍🏻

[@patrickmeyer4408]

❤

[@Moondog2A]

Do you have one?

[@patrickmeyer4408]

@@Moondog2A No, butI really like your video I made an abo - keep goinig 🙂

[@sc6802]

where is it made? and SFP

[@Moondog2A]

Japanese glass, assembled in the USA. FFP. The reticle changed size the video when I changed magnification? Hope you subscribed.

[@sc6802]

thanks! yes you asked about ffp or sfp, for a lvpo sfp has all the upside

[@sub0fathom]

Just a psyop...? What? What do you mean?

[@Moondog2A]

Its a turn of phrase for a bit of flair in the intro. But perhaps a cynic may think that putting an expensive looking optic on service rifles is just to show how "advanced" Big Army is?

[@sub0fathom]

@@Moondog2A Oh like, the idea is that the army can put fancy looking equipment on rifles to garner further support from lay people that don't understand it could just be a marginal upgrade or in fact worse; all for essentially propaganda, correct?

[@randyparker4126]

Why don't you two get a room?

[@xforce708]

Not sure I’d want a FFP on a 6X LPVO.

[@Moondog2A]

Not sure I'd want a FFP in an LPVO, period.

[@engineer12v]

It is garbage do not buy

[@Moondog2A]

Garbage? Compared to what?

[@freddietellez8737]

2yrs if your army

[@Moondog2A]

It's 2 years active and 2 years reserve but you're still committing to 4 total. Or did Biden change that?

[@tsclly2377]

reaally

[@Moondog2A]

What's your go-to brand in optics?

[@tsclly2377]

​@@Moondog2A Chinese - russian - belarussian long eye relief were the mount is more than the scope, but the glass is relatively big... LoL [last one was a Monstrum with a MX reticle, but it is not listed on Amazon or eBay any more] Function over brand as a brand is a brand and all are now coming through China.. soon to be sanctioned] .. Keep it simple and a bullet drop is quite specific and makes it an anyone tool.. and try to find a premium long eye relief like for a scout mount for a Garand (NOT). Fat reticle hairs are also a no-no and tape the battery as it should not be used.. ever (if it is that dark, it is not legal hunting most places). Lit reticles are like candles if you are out there during the SHTF.

[@Moondog2A]

@@tsclly2377 True. But no LPVO has a long enough eye relief to use on a scout mount. At best they are 3.5"

[@tsclly2377]

@@Moondog2A correcdomundo.. but only the cheap scopes are of that nature marketing has swayed consumer preference to nonsensical desires away from actual practicality. [ need vs greed]

[@garyjohns4711]

naw, i like my 1-10 too much....

[@Moondog2A]

Which 1-10x?

[@garyjohns4711]

@@Moondog2A Swampfox

[@l.s.451]

$1600!

[@Moondog2A]

$1699 is for the baseline Tango6T. For the deluxe package with the Alpha mount that you see in this video, its $2200. amzn.to/4ePNqOp

[@l.s.451]

@@Moondog2A You know they sell LPVO scopes on Amazon for $120 right?Why would anyone spend $2k?

[@Moondog2A]

@@l.s.451 Because they have a DOD procurement budget?

[@l.s.451]

@@Moondog2A Sounds right.🇺🇲

[@johnneill5960]

@@Moondog2A DOD ain’t paying 2200.00 Lol they prob got them for 5-600 hundo and they get free maintenance, but not us peasants

[@scott2228]

Simi auto scope. 🤷‍♂️

[@SierraMike78]

$1,339.99

[@Moondog2A]

Yeah that's just for the scope. For the 'Deluxe Apha' package in the video, it's still over 2K amzn.to/46bN8gN

[@sizzlechest6070]

Sig? No thanks

[@Moondog2A]

You don't like their products, I take it?

[@dzanze3733]

It’s not your boyfriend’s Dress, buddy (“Ooh , it’s buttery smooth”). C’mon seriously.

[@Moondog2A]

How would you describe a smooth mechanical bearing?

[@Spruce-Bug]

This seems more like a paid ad than a review.

[@whiskeytangohotel6624]

Highest power evaluation was BS. Lots of distortion around the edges.

[@LAT-qk3vj]

Good review. Very helpful. I’m in the market for LPVO. Started with low end budget Fifefieldbfrm Academy

[@Moondog2A]

Look into Monstrum for budget LPVOs. Primary Arms used to be my low-end recommend but their quality and price have gone up so much I can't call them budget anymore.

[@sog4646]

I got a Bushnell 1-4x for $125.

[@brandonlalande-mu6zx]

I like the idea of an lpvo but the quality can vary. The problem i have with lpvos is the producers. These cheap mfers are stuck on 30 mm lenses which fishbowl hard after 4x magnification, and refuse to use Japanese glass which should be the bare minimum standard. If you're going with an LPVO and want to save $ but still have quality, check out Arken Optics. In the end most people prefer miliradian for measurement rather than moa and id rather use something designed with more zoom and run an offset red dot sight for cqb instead. 34mm should be the standard for glass these days.

[@Moondog2A]

The EP8 is one of my favorite LPVOs kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKXddYVofLd0as0