Monstrum Panzer vs Vortex Razor: How does a $200 scope compare to a $2500?

[@Monstrumtactical]

Holy smokes, at $2500 I thought the Razor would blow us out the park but it's crazy to see that distortion and chromatic aberration. We did put a lot of effort in developing the Panzer and I'm glad it showed. I didn't have time to look through the Razor before sending it to you but I do admire how sharp the Razor is when looking at the USAF resolution chart and that daylight bright reticle very impressive. I believe our next priority is to create an affordable daylight bright reticle in the Panzer's future iteration. Thanks again for reviewing the Panzer!

[@Moondog2A]

Great job! If the reticle on this Panzer was as even equal to the Razor at #6 intensity it would be a category killer. I would also love to see a reticle similar to the one in your G3 or this CM2 reticle in a SFP Banshee.

[@linkchen8245]

it is made that way to get better image in higher x, the menstruum is the other way around

[@georgeclarke4235]

Great comments. Good to see a company pushing the limits to provide quality affordable products. I use your rings a lot with my builds. I’ll look at this product and your other scopes in the future.

[@thewrongneighborhood7847]

good move sending him one, cause im fuckin sold homie. 200$ for that nice of an lpvo? shit i wont even feel bad paintin it.

[@harveylin3548]

Do it, all of budget scope builders have the same problem - their reticle lighting is practically useless in daylight, all of my Arken scope have the same problem too and I think they are also in the budget scope field.

[@LiveLo0t]

For me it's easy... Buy the Monstrum Panzer and put the $2300 you save into upgrading/building the rifle it sits on, or ammo, or courses, or lunches for a year, or a vacation. $2300 is a lot of money to spend on "daylight bright" illumination in the reticle and a +/-5% clarity bump.

[@Moondog2A]

That's the best answer. Hope you subscribed.

[@justsomeplantcells-]

give a poor man 2000 bucks, he can pay his rent give a rich man 2000 bucks, he dosent care.

[@TheSpicyBoi]

they apparently even got rid of the green illumination and updated the reticle. it gives more information and is even brighter :O

[@wesman7837]

​@@TheSpicyBoi Oh that's disappointing, I like green much better than red!

[@Jeff-oo8gx]

Wow, honestly that weird 1 power fisheye effect was the biggest deal breaker for me. That's so odd that they couldn't get that perfect at that price point.

[@Moondog2A]

I gotta ask that at the Vortex booth at SHOT next week. Hope you subscribed.

[@loganwatts5985]

@@Moondog2Awhat did they say?

[@Moondog2A]

@@loganwatts5985 They weren't at SHOT. Apparently they skipped SHOT the last 2 years.

[@wesman7837]

​@@Moondog2A That's disappointing! 😞 😕 😔

[@loganwatts5985]

@@Moondog2A laaaaaame😒

[@sethlaughlin6955]

I have three Monstrum optics now and am very impressed. I’m on a budget so I simply cannot go with high dollar scopes. I’m so appreciative to Monstrum for making really good quality glass that middle class people can afford. Awesome video. Thanks!

[@Moondog2A]

Good choice! Hope you subscribed.

[@JacksonCarter-hh7hd]

I was skeptical too but have had nothing but good times w their prism and forward mounted magnifier I'll be grabbing this soon. Gotta love a company that's reasonably priced AND worth a damn

[@GetMeThere1]

Excellent comparison! Thanks for taking the time to do it and put it up for us.

[@Moondog2A]

Glad you liked it! Hope you subscribed.

[@CalzaTheFox]

As it's been said before, we're in a race towards the bottom - newer, affordable scopes can punch well above their expected weight class due to great performance for the cost. It's a fantastic time to be in as a consumer.

[@Moondog2A]

That's a great point. We are very fortunate with how much performance has progressed in gun accessories. Hope you subscribed.

[@paulbarclay4114]

try dropping it a few times and see what happens

[@brentharrington9235]

This can be said about _MOST_ current technologies. Thanks to capitalism and automation, ''budget'' level gear is on par with top tier gear from just a decade ago.

[@Splarkszter]

​@@paulbarclay4114 Why would you EVER drop your sights?

[@paulbarclay4114]

@@Splarkszter why would you ever assume you wont accidentally drop it Usually at the exact moment when you need it to work That's how things go

[@GldenRetriever]

Love how you are running the monstrum mount on the razor lol. Gets people rowdy.

[@Moondog2A]

LOL. Glad you noticed. The Razor HD doesn't come with a mount (which the Vortex sells for another $250!). Thanks for subscribing.

[@docholiday5872]

another $250 DAMN !!!!

[@ballsack8937]

Monstrum sells whatever mount you need and they perform just fine. No need to drop 250 it's honestly a slap in the face how much some of this shit costs when it's probably made right next to the budget stuff

[@gala021]

Amazing comparison Sir!!! That's the kind of stuff we all need to understand how to spend our money better!!! I'd love to see something like that with the long range scopes with more than 30x magnification: Night Force, Zeiss, March, Leupold, Vortex....vs some budget optics like Monstrum, Arken, Vector Optics, Hawke. I think many people will love a big and nice comparison done by you with all these optics...

[@Moondog2A]

Great suggestion! Though Hawke is rather expensive, no? Prices on their high end magnification scopes are more like Athlon or Riton? Hope you subscribe.

[@gala021]

of course I am! @@Moondog2A ! Hawke is kind in the middle to be fair...nothing compared with the high end brands mentioned before tho...

[@papapoonpoon]

This is a great video. We are in a golden age of firearms and accessories - including optics. The improvements in Chinese glass have made budget optics significantly better. For recreational civilians, budget options are looking nicer all the time.

[@Moondog2A]

Agree 100%. That's an excellent insight. The budget optics of today are as good as the expensive scopes from just a decade ago and they keep getting better. Hope you subscribed.

[@Rico11b]

You pointed out that the zoom at 1x was lower in the vortex, but also appears to be more than 10x at the high end. Or either the cheaper scope doesn't make it all the way to 10x. Regardless, there is NOTHING about the razor that justifies the price point. Great video, as I've long viewed Vortex as highly overpriced. This video just proves it.

[@Moondog2A]

Hope you subscribed. I remember when Vortex was considered the "budget" scope brand compared to Leupold.

[@Rico11b]

@@Moondog2A Hahaha.... so true. Heck I remember when Leupold was considered "best bang for the buck" budget also. :)

[@NickMinskey]

@@Moondog2A vortex has optics available at just about any price point, including the $200 mark - also they're made in Wisconsin, not China like the monstrum.

[@TalkingHands308]

It depends on which Vortex. I agree that the high end Vortex scopes seem quite a bit overpriced. Especially when you can pretty much get a Nightforce with similar specs for about the same price. But their mid to low-mid stuff is actually very good quality for the money. I have a 5-25x Venom scope, I only paid like $415 for it brand new, and it's REALLY nice for a sub $1k scope. That's not their lowest end line, and not their high end. It's like maybe the mid-range or lower mid-range. But for $415 (it regularly goes on sale for like $499, I found a guy on ebay selling scopes super cheap brand new, I wouldn't be surprised if they "fell off the truck"...) I got a FFP scope, 5-25x, 34mm tube, 56mm objective lens, a great reticle, and really performs great.

[@TalkingHands308]

@@NickMinskey I thought Vortex was made in China as well? When did they start making them in the USA?

[@rustymiller194]

For $2250 in a difference in price I can live happily ever after with the Panzer……….Good job Moondog 👍👍👍👍👍

[@Moondog2A]

You're welcome. Thanks for subscribing.

[@belt1974123]

I think it is about time to ask why do we pay this much difference. And spare me the hand ground lens is expensive argument. I would bet there are very few that are done this way with today’s tech.

[@rustymiller194]

@@belt1974123 like TV’s , appliances, and everything else, they are all made in the same few factories ……

[@newlifemedicalcenter]

I’m glad I found your channel, exactly the type of reviews and comparisons I have been looking for. Thanks

[@Moondog2A]

Glad I could help! Hope you subbed

[@destroyerofnuggets3644]

I've used their mounts in the past, but it seems like their optics are quickly becoming interesting as well. Amazing to see some ED options in that price range, and it's absolutely hilarious that it has a truer 1x and less fisheye than the Razor. Obvious point of weakness is reticle brightness, but honestly for plinking/hunting you really only need twilight brightness. The biggest lingering concerns would be durability, quality of the internals (adjustment accuracy, repeatability), and whether or not the reticle holdovers are right. If it does end up being a durable, precise optic in addition to punching above its weight in glass quality, then it's a no-brainer for an entry level LPVO. I'd be interested in seeing how much of the

[@Moondog2A]

Monstrum has a new supposed, daylight bright LPVO that I'll be testing soon.

[@harveylin3548]

I also buy their cheap mounts on Amazon a lot, I like they have it for all heights and tube sizes. If you are not a competition shooter, nothing wrong with those cheap mounts.

[@brianwhite7686]

Your comment is exactly why I spend as much time as I do with reviews and testimonials online. There is no justification for a price difference that large. Bragging rights are extremely expensive.

[@The02seta]

Nice fair review. I have to say there are LPVO's out there with better glass than Vortex for the price point.

[@Moondog2A]

Which are your favorite LPVOs? I'm partial to the EOTech and Primary Arms.

[@The02seta]

@MoondogIndustries I'm fond of a couple Riton X7 series on bobro qd mount. I do like the Eotech, I just don't have one yet.

[@zzzgoodnight2883]

Nightforce

[@joeculver6227]

Best optics review I have seen in a longgggggggg time. Subscribed and can’t wait to see your next video!

[@Moondog2A]

Thanks for the sub! I'll be posting coverage from SHOT Show soon.

[@66justariot]

Canes upon your channel last week looking for monstrum reviews. Really enjoy your ways of reviewing and comparing.

[@Moondog2A]

Thanks. Hope you subscribed.

[@sokoand]

Optical quality (until it is OK) is not the most important factor in my opinion. Far more important is how it tracks, holds zero (shooting magnum calibers, accidental drops, impacts, etc), protected from weather and geometrically and mechanically perfect. That directly affects you ability to reliably hit the target much more than soft edges or chromatic aberrations. For example, some $200-300 scopes do not hold zero if you zoom in/out. You sight it at the max zoom and then use it at low or mid magnification. Others work differently in cold and hot weather or can not withstand even minor abuse. Not many people ever realize it. And this is what should be tested first.

[@Moondog2A]

Extremely valid points. Hope you subscribed.

[@mikehenthorn1778]

ok 2 videos in and i have subbed. well done sir. looking forward to going through your old videos.

[@Moondog2A]

Welcome aboard!

[@QP154]

Excellent review, thanks for taking the time to do it. I will have to correct you a little bit, the Vortex warranty is far and above the best warranty in the game. It kind of can't be overstated. Any malfunction whatsoever, intentional or not, and they will repair or replace it no questions asked. You fill out a form, they send you a label and you get it back in less than two weeks. I had a faulty dot they just...replaced. Lifetime, transferrable, and unlimited.

[@Moondog2A]

Thanks for the info! They pretty much set the standard for industry warranties. Hope you subscribe..

[@ballsack8937]

But shouldn't that be expected when they're selling optics for 2k that aren't worth it. The fact is that most of the components of both scopes were most likely made in the same city in China. Same parts sourced, tolerances might be different but we all know our shit is made in China. 2300 to 200 it's flat out bs. It sounds like they really depend on that top of the line warranty. But it's not a flex it should be the norm when spending the same amount on a scope as you would a DD

[@ericchdjdjnx]

Got one mainly because of this review and am going to return it. Seemed okay, but the reticle in mine was rotated before even shooting with it. Multiple reviews said they had this issue, but I gave it a chance and ended up having the same problem. QC issues are apparently very common. They also lowered the price to 150 dollars shortly I bought it. It feels really bad finding out that I overpaid by 33% on what's supposed to be a value purchase.

[@Moondog2A]

Man that sux. Did u buy it from Amazon or in Monstrum?

[@ericchdjdjnx]

@@Moondog2A Amazon. Luckily it's easy to return. About a third of the reviews are 1-2 stars so it seems like QC is an issue.

[@TheOldFatDadGoober]

75% of the quality for 10% of the price. I know folks like to chase the best goodies but for a guy on a budget we are living in great times.

[@Moondog2A]

100%

[@doncowboy6625]

There are times we're spending a lot more to get a little more is worth it and there are times it's not. every rifle every situation is different. But if I'm spending over 2500 on a scope it's not going to be a vortex. I'll wait for a sale and get a NightForce Zeiss or swarovski.

[@doncowboy6625]

There are times we're spending a lot more to get a little more is worth it and there are times it's not. every rifle every situation is different. But if I'm spending over 2500 on a scope it's not going to be a vortex. I'll wait for a sale and get a NightForce Zeiss or swarovski.

[@TheOldFatDadGoober]

@@doncowboy6625 That's a good point. There's a lot of competition in that premium price range. I don't think most people buy the G3 razor at that price though. It can be found a good bit cheaper.

[@brettlindberg7895]

New subscriber here. I've been binge watching some of your comparison videos and have to say that I am very impressed. Your reviews are very thorough and objective. I appreciate that you just present the facts and let the viewers draw their own conclusions.

[@Moondog2A]

Welcome aboard! Thanks for subscribing.

[@Moondog2A]

This month for my Subscribers, I'm giving away N4 night vision goggles. Enter to win at moondogindustries.com/n4dcontest

[@georgeclarke4235]

Good review. Honest and upfront with the your results. Looks like Monstrum is providing good quality and features at very good prices.

[@Moondog2A]

Thanks. Hope you subscribed. My next step is to give the Panzer a durability test.

[@thomascampbell7407]

I appreciate your time making such an informative video. Thanks!

[@Moondog2A]

Glad it was helpful! Hope you subscribe.

[@pasjooter1039]

Nice detailed review, one thing I miss in your testing is low light conditions, normally the better glass aka Vortex should take the advantage. You could test both next to each other and see how much longer you can still detect something vs the other one. Meaning how much time do you buy more with the high end scope….

[@Moondog2A]

Great point! In the shaded cove section with the targets you can see how much better low light performance is by looking at the backstop. You can see the individual fine speckles of old bullet hits on the steel backstop. On the lower priced glass of the Panzer, it's just a blob.

[@pasjooter1039]

@@Moondog2A Yes, correct, but you tested within a static situation. Look at it as a hunter, when sunset starts to set in, how much longer are you able to identify not just a silhouet, for example a deer and see wether it’s doe or a buck and be able to take an ethical shot. That’s what I mean with buying time in a more expensive optic with better glass. Not sure if you will win a lot with the more expensive Vortex or not.

[@bobwiese6128]

​@@pasjooter1039Great points all. Thanks

[@billwiley7216]

Budget, use and longevity all must be weighed, for a person with deep pockets to the degree the Razors cost is not even a consideration the yes you get what you pay for although on a very notable scale of diminishing returns. For those of us on a budget though the Monstrum is a welcome option that performs very well at its price point and if the longevity on these proves to be good will work well for the majority of people in the market for this type of optic. Great review and honestly I think the Monstrum performed a lot closer to the Razor than I would have thought given the price differences. Glass the Monstum seemed to punch way above its price point while with the Razor I would have expected better at its price point. Razor larger elevation adjustability range with its 34mm tube and better less sloppy turrets seem to be two of its major points of being in a higher tier class of optic.

[@Moondog2A]

Very well put. I hope you subscribe and offer input on future videos.

[@lenzielenski3276]

I expect a 10-15% difference except in light gathering capability. I'd expect a greater difference there, maybe as much as 50%. Justify the difference? Nah. I know f-all about scopes, but I do know photographic lenses. For $2500 it should 'show me a good time' AND make me breakfast. Coming back after watching I think I was mostly right but under estimated the brightness difference. It seems closer to 100% or, photographically, a 1 stop difference. Parting thought: If my skill isn't 10x the average I won't be able to use or really appreciate the difference 10x the money makes. I'm no where near that good a shot and don't care for bragging rights as to how much money I spend.

[@Moondog2A]

That's a great point. I hope you subscribed and comment on my next video.

[@lenzielenski3276]

@@Moondog2A Seriously, $2500 for a scope is absurd except if its for competition where a 1% difference is a win or loss. That's a lot, even for a camera lens where color, contrast, fidelity, auto focus and mechanical aperture are added in. That's why people are going to miss Nikon scopes. They had all the light/color/resolution down to a science and just needed to concentrate on the mechanical and optimizing design for customer demand. RIP

[@Moondog2A]

@@lenzielenski3276 Tract Optics is a new company founded by form Nikon guys.

[@kavancooney214]

Ive watched two of your videos so far and I am a huge fan of how you do your video comparisons, clearly unbias, to the point, and best of all the media quality really shows the best side by side comparisons!!! Much love brotha keep making these videos. Im gonna subscribe and see if you have more videos on prism optics as I have stigmatism

[@Moondog2A]

I appreciate that! Hope you subscribed.

[@deplorabledave1048]

This video added to my FAVORITES!

[@Moondog2A]

Thanks!

[@yhckelly]

Both LVPO's appear to be solid performers. The cost difference is the key- meaningful upgrades could be had in your rifle for $2300 that would serve you far better than the difference here. Throw in a case of ammo, a dozen mags, and still have a few 100 bucks left. It's Panzer for the win.

[@Moondog2A]

Excellent point. You could buy and outfit another AR, included with its own Panzer, with the price difference between these two.

[@allenmays3340]

Very thorough and detailed! The only thing missing (and understandably so) is a torture test. Ultimately, it has to withstand what it will be put through or it's just wasted money. A warranty is great, but it doesn't help when you're in the middle of using it and it breaks.

[@Moondog2A]

That's true. But Vortex has been notorious in the past few years for having a generous warranty but also for users NEEDING to use it often.

[@ismaelrios7046]

A comparison between Panzer, Banshee and Spectre would be great! I’m stuck in between them three. I’d like to see all three of the reticles on the screen at the same time. The format on your comparison/review videos is the best. Back to back straight to the point. Showing strengths and weaknesses on both. Glad I found your channel 💯

[@Moondog2A]

Optically they're pretty much identical as far as I can tell. The difference is in the body, turret style, and reticle (first or second focal plane). Thanks for subscribing.

[@lenzielenski3276]

OK. A Panzer is a tank, a Banshee is a mythical spirit that screams and a Spectre is a ghost. You're welcome.

[@jessiejane6259]

Unless I am a competitive shooter and win lots of money doing it, I will stick to the cheap scopes.

[@Moondog2A]

100%

[@deplorabledave1048]

HOLY MOSES!! I subbed to your channel and LIKED this video!!

[@Moondog2A]

Thanks for subbing!

[@Juuul89]

Great review. I probably don't have to tell you this since you are clearly knowledgeable on the subject. However, I would have personally really liked to have seen an optical review of say, 5x, half way through the range. Like camera lenses, optics are at their worst at min and max power and the Vortex was both wider at min and closer at max power, adjusting the vortex to match the monstrum's FOV probably also would paint a more favorable picture for the Vortex. So would have been cool to see somwhere in the middle of the zoom range!

[@Moondog2A]

Thanks. I did show the 5x of the Panzer in it's review video so you should check that out to get a good sense of its sweet spot. I plan to do a more in-depth review of the Razor showing it's 5x image quality soon. Hope you subscribe.

[@doctormoo9444]

Your breakdown was very well done it seemed like you covered everything

[@Moondog2A]

Thanks. I tried my best though I did skep the whole zero shooting testing footage because it was getting a bit long. Hope you subscribed.

[@GunsBlazingRanch]

Awesome review.

[@Moondog2A]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@poopymcface9792]

I really appreciate the work you put into these product reviews! Liked and subscribed!

[@Moondog2A]

Thanks for the sub!

[@dansgunsnstuff]

I have a monstrum 3x18. 100$ scope. Honestly pretty good for what I use it for, impressed for the price, I’m not shooting past 200 yards anyways. I did upgrade the scope rings, ones that came with seemed pretty cheap

[@Moondog2A]

The Panzer's are nicer than the Banshee's mount.

[@shaymcquaid]

Great review, I really enjoyed it.

[@Moondog2A]

Awesome, thank you! Thanks for subscribing.

[@bg3160]

The overall quality of glass today is incredible whether a $2500 scope or $200 scope. I have Nikon lenses from the 1970's that were best of breed in the day. Today, crappy kit lenses are just sharp if not sharper. The comparison didn't surprise me on glass quality, Yeah, the Razor does resolve slightly better than the Panzer, but do you need that resolution? If you are a true long ranger, yes maybe, but if you shoot under 100 yards like me, not so much. The one thing not really covered here is build quality. Which one will last longer in the field under your use conditions? In that case, maybe the Razor is a better deal. After all, you don't want to pack in for 3 days and have your scope crap out on you. Me on the other hand, due to physical limitations, strictly a range shooter. I can buy another rifle for the price difference. It all depends on your needs. Excellent review, good information, THANK YOU!

[@Moondog2A]

Excellent point. Now we photographers value "vintage" lenses for their warm soft focus qualities lol. Hope you subscribe.

[@ChrisOhlsen]

Monstrum is great, thanks for the video. Buy as many Monstrum reticles as possible before they go mainstream stream and we cant afford them anymore.

[@Moondog2A]

You're welcome. I hope you subscribe.

[@IsaiahChapter53isAboutJesus]

I didn't see enough through my screen to warrant such a vast price difference. It seems that diminishing returns plays a huge role here with the Vortex.

[@Moondog2A]

Agreed.

[@GenXisT]

I have been buying Monstrum products since they first started offering things. Lights, mounts, optics, everything. They are QUALITY products. Anyone who has $2500 to spend on an optic, more power to them, I guess. But I'm not here to try to impress anyone, nor am I LARPing like so many people do. Today, the Panzer 1x10 is on sale for $145. This is a no-brainer for me.

[@Moondog2A]

That's a very fair assessment. I'm sure Monstrum is cutting some durability to get it to such a low price point but for they typical range user, this will be as good or better than any of the premium brands low ends.

[@ChetJang]

I prefer spending my money on the firearm and not the scope. I wouldn't maybe put a cheap scope on my Barret 50 BMG but I might out of curiosity just to see what would happen. My cheap scopes may not have the sharpest image at full power but I still hit my targets fine. Rare to have a truly awful scope I have run into a couple of really awful Chinese scopes, but they were dirt cheap. I have surprised my brother with an old fashioned cheap AR 2x scope. The first heavy barrel carbine I built he claimed I didn't even hit the target but when we walked up all 20 shots were dead center in the 1 inch black which is why he couldn't see them. His only comment after getting over the shock was "I didn't know my brother was that good a shot".

[@Moondog2A]

100% Carlos Hathcock scored his kills using Unertl scopes that have dimmer image than most budget scopes today. It's the chef not the knife. Hope you subscribed.

[@TheMikeshannon]

Good comparison, only other big thing missing here is low light performance. The 30mm tube is going to be a big disadvantage in darker settings. Was interesting to see the chromatic issues with the razor so i will give credit to the panzer on that one. Also nice to see references like the USAF sheet used

[@Moondog2A]

Thanks. You can see the difference in low light performance in the difference in detail of the dark background of the backstop at the range. You can see the bullet hits on steel with the Razor. It's a dark blob in the Panzer.

[@bjornegan6421]

of course, very well done video. i think vortex's main claim for the razor is the alleged durability. that would be an interesting comparison, but likely not possible.

[@Moondog2A]

Agreed. But both companies offer a lifetime warranty so that's something. Hope you subscirbed.

[@halfasoap1172]

I suppose, as with most things, the high end option is better, but higher and higher price points have diminishing returns. the Razor is a clear winner if cost is not a factor, but i think for most people it would be more practical to save 2,000 and instead put it towards other accessories or upgrades

[@Moondog2A]

Hope you subscribed, it would be great to see more insights like this on the comments section.

[@jayfin5507]

Solid review!

[@Moondog2A]

Much appreciated! Hope you subscribed. I'll be posting coverage from SHOT Show soon.

[@evinsleddervedder6816]

It would be interesting a see a torture test and water proof test

[@tired9398]

For about a tenth the price.. I'd say the Panzer is a much better option. It held up really well and I can't see why you'd get a razor unless you want that premium feel and sharper glass. The chromatic aberration is a huge issue for me personally, as is the distortion. The muddier glass on the Panzer looks bad in comparison, but is still super clear. That's a lot of money saved for an optic that really holds its own against the giants.

[@Moondog2A]

Well said

[@jjdee7901]

i liked the Panzer better for a couple reasons. I have a Monstrum 4x magnifier coming tomorrow funny enough. And I have a low budget lpvo that Iam more then happy with. But great video . And the price difference blew me away.

[@Moondog2A]

Nice!

[@salvatoredelgaudio5952]

Well done, great vid. Just subbed

[@Moondog2A]

Thanks for the sub! Did any of the testing surprise you as it did me?

[@bobwiese6128]

Agreed, Me too. 🇺🇸 🇺🇸

[@kevinhullinger8743]

Well done, I’ll take the panzer all day and use the money saved for ammo.

[@Moondog2A]

100% Thanks for subscribing.

[@kevinhullinger8743]

@@Moondog2A you’re welcome. Thanks for putting out great content 👌🏻

[@fmbga]

I'd like to see a follow-up after a year or two of regular use. After all, in a riflescope the lenses are just a part of what you pay for (although an important part to be sure). If your turrets start to stick and your inversion tube starts to randomly move your POI, that won't be good - it will often happen just when you were really counting on it not happening. I'm also thinking the edgy-looking shapes of the Panzer may snag on branches more than the sleeker-looking Razor.

[@Moondog2A]

Stay tuned then for an update on the Panzer. Hope you subscribed.

[@jamendoza821]

Video at 14:22 pretty much Captured my reaction (😳😬😵)when you said the Vortex is priced at over $2,000 U.S. Dollars 💵

[@Moondog2A]

You can get them on sale for less but they are well over 1,000 in the US.

[@michaelnelson1911]

Wow, that Panzer is an awesome scope.

[@Moondog2A]

It's pretty darn good. Hope you subscribe.

[@justbrian3487]

Bought one of these to replace my 1-8 Strike Eagle after watching this video, the monstrum panzer fell apart within 100 rounds suppressed on a gas piston .223 gun. The rear optic glass unthreaded itself and the optic would not hold zero. Tried it in the included monstrum mount, as well as my ADM mount. Was really let down because the optic was super promising and the glass is very clear, compared to the strike eagle it was barely an inch longer with a larger window. But didnt last more than an hour bench shooting at a flat range.

[@Moondog2A]

No way! You should contact Monstrum right away and get a replacement. I just stopped by their booth at SHOT and they were really responsive to user feedback. The Panzer their new flagship and they want to make it right or make it better.

[@justbrian3487]

Ill have to get into contact with them, ive used monstrum mounts and stuff in the past with great success

[@TonyYork-KB9RAO]

I have 2 Monstrom 6X24x50 scopes and was very suprised at how good the things are.

[@Moondog2A]

Hope you subscribed. Go you have the G3 or G2? Is there anything you don't like about them?

[@TonyYork-KB9RAO]

g2 they are a bit heavier than some old scopes i have around but it isnt a complaint@@Moondog2A

[@mavrikmavrik3032]

How does the 1x compare when you start adjusting the diopter? Most LPVOs start to really magnify their image when you adjust the diopter. This makes the optic nearly useless for both eye shooting at close distance. The Razor II 1-6 I have does not magnify the image so it’s very usable for close in work as you get older.

[@Moondog2A]

I adjusted both diopters to get the best image and reticle clarity. My friend's Razor 1-6x does not have this fish-eye issue that this 1-10x either. Hope you subscribed.

[@paulcoleman8103]

Well the Vortex is a higher quality optic the main question I have is which one is more durable in adverse conditions. That’s pretty much a deal breaker. I would rather have a lower quality optic that is more durable to rough treatment than a high dollar optic that won’t hold up to rough field use.(just my opinion). As far as what was shown in this video the question is is the difference between the Vortex and the Monstrum worth the difference in price ?

[@Moondog2A]

That's fair contrast you posed there, I haven't had the opportunity or means to truly abuse a 1000 optic. But what do you mean by adverse? Are you talking about rain and sub zero temps. Or are you talking about dropping out a helicopter kind of adverse?

[@paulcoleman8103]

@@Moondog2A I’m not into some of the extreme stuff I have seen people do in the tests they do. As you know a weapon can take a lot of abuse in field movements under fire. (Not saying you should have someone shoot at you during this) A timed obstacle shooting course where the weapon and attachments are put through the abuse that is common in real life use under duress. In real life a weapon system can take a beating just moving forward from position to position. Thanks for what you do, keep it up

[@commonsense5709]

Fantastic comparison. I was about to buy a Razor Gen 3 $1750 from A&A but rethinking about buying the Monstrum instead.

[@Moondog2A]

What's A&A?

[@commonsense5709]

@@Moondog2A A&A Optics sells Vortex refurbs same unconditional unlimited lifetime warranty but for much cheaper prices.

[@fernandoben5605]

For the huge difference in price, I was expecting far more on the Razor. Interestingly there is not ! The Panzer competes fine !

[@Moondog2A]

I know, right?!

[@lenzielenski3276]

Uh, actually its not called a fisheye effect as that is a 180 degree field of view and not a distortion. What you're seeing is barrel distortion, outward curving of straight lines near the edge of the field of view. Moreover the contrast (difference between light and dark) is actually about the same. The difference is in overall brightness which I'd expect from a larger objective. It would be interesting to see both images adjusted to the same brightness so actual contrast could be judged visually. In practice brighter images usually look sharper. Frankly, if I saw that quality image from a $200 photographic lens, I'd be pissed. Neither seem sharp or very contrasty. Fringing or chromatic aberration means diddle. If I was trying to spot species of bird at half a mile it would matter, but, then I'd be more likely using a telescope or binoculars. In field use I'd expect the difference to make or break a shot in less than 1% of situations. What I would expect to make a difference is the brightness of the dot. If you're sighting on a target, especially a moving one, a brighter dot is easier to pick up and I consider it noteworthy that you can always power the dot DOWN but you are limited to how far you can power it UP.

[@Moondog2A]

True, "fisheye" in photography is a lens with a 180º FOV. But "fisheye" has become common term in LPVO reviews when there is noticeable curvature at the edge of the FOV. Its nigh impossible to fix the aperture, ISO, and color balance on the phones that I use for recording so showing true comparative brightness is not something I'm able to capture reliably in my videos.

[@lenzielenski3276]

@@Moondog2A Adjustment and comparison would have to be done in post. Brightness adjusted in Photoshop and then highlight and shadow values measured with color picker. Nothing is perfect and your tools are limited; still, your review is well above average. Keep it up.

[@brady9169]

For 10x The price, I'm gonna have to go with the Monstrum Panzer. If I was an operator or swat and relied on it daily you can justify the $3k+ price tag for the vortex.

[@Moondog2A]

Tru dat. Also you'd probably be covered by your units gear procurement budget so your out of pocket would be 0. Hope you subscribed.

[@mark120371]

I was right but not 10x the cost right. The Panzer is a great value.

[@Moondog2A]

100%

[@clarkdavid79]

This is a great comparison, but I'm seeing that the long range or "zoomed in" comparison to be a bit unfair, looking throuch the scope I can see the difference, however, looking at the sky seeing it MUCH more blue on one side vs the other makes me question the view we (on youtube) are seeing. With that said, amazing video, and since I live in the US and like many other blue collar workers I struggle to afford a 2500 dollar LPVO i chose the Montrum about a year ago and I love it, although they are a bit big lol.

[@Moondog2A]

I used the same phone camera for both scopes. There was like a 20 mine difference between each set up. I wonder if the change in color was due to the camera sensing a color shift in the glass and trying to compensate? Dunno.

[@kiwiperspective8656]

Impressed by your review, and the cheap Panzer. In my opinion the Razor is only 2-3 times better. I've only tried a Razor for 5 min and haven't touched a Panzer (Just going of this review) The fish eye effect at 1x on the Razor was very disappointing and distracting.

[@Moondog2A]

I know, right? I was expecting a much flatter image with the Razor. But that glass was sharp. Still the price!

[@Badhagis]

Umm, "Better by far" and "No contest" seems to be a bit of a stretch. The Razor compared to the Panzer on the paper targets, and as far as the visibility of the red dot was better, and also in clarity. However, in real world testing (where it matters), when you were at max power, you could see the sign at the top of the hill clearly with the Panzer as opposed to the Razor (which I couldn't see at all with the Razor until you pointed it out). Also, in my own experience, "red" dots as opposed to "green" are always harder to see. I would like to have seen a comparison between the red and green on both. And then there was the fisheye thing at 1x and also the chromatic aberration with the Razor...So, as has been pointed out, a 10x difference in price is significant, and wasn't borne out in and real way in favor of the Razor by your testing. For my money, I'm DEFINITELY more impressed by the Panzer. JMTC

[@Moondog2A]

Hope you subscribe. Check out my Panzer review for the difference in green and red. Usually green is brighter in daylight, but oddly, that wasn't the case with the Panzer? kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKjHhqOKipqnj6M

[@majortwitched]

I would have loved to see, is a drop test/zero retention. May not apply to most shooters but I want to know that an optic will survive and preform when things go wrong. Cheaper optic tend to drift more easily.

[@Moondog2A]

They wouldn't let me drop the Vortex but I'm going to do a zero hold test over the next few weeks with the Panzer. Stay tuned. Hope you subscribed.

[@ScottStone-g8j]

I have the Soectre 6x and have been really pleased. I rather have the Panzer and a LWCI DI for the same money.

[@Moondog2A]

That's a wise use of money

[@jackmorrow427]

The panzer wasn't out I got the 1-10 specter mounted on a rak308 c it is holding up so far . At 1x I can use it at night moon lit with no problem seeing my intended targets .....

[@Moondog2A]

Great report there. Hope you subscribe and keep us updated on its durabiltiy!

[@milspecmike8440]

I’m glad to see options and that they’ve managed to make usable glass work well at a budget, but what’s the point of an LVPO if the dot is unusable at 1X because it’s washed out? I get people can’t all afford the Razor but I’d rather have a decent 1-6 with a usable dot than a 1-10 without.

[@Moondog2A]

Agreed. I prefer a nice visible SFP. Hope you subscribed. I'll be posting coverage from SHOT Show soon.

[@gaggle111]

One point that I would make is that I personally like the compactness of the 30mm tube over the 34mm. I personally don't need that much internal adjustment in a LPVO. It makes the rifle seem bulky to me.

[@Moondog2A]

That and the weight, right? I hope you subscribe.

[@ryangorman3061]

Excellent video. It would be good to see a bit of a torture test, but for the average plinker or hunter, the Monstrum looks like a clear winner. Coming from a guy with a safe full of Vortex.

[@Moondog2A]

I've only run a few mags through each to check zero but I'm going to do a more robust durability test on the Panzer over the next month. Hope you subscribed because I'll post a follow up review. Unfortunately I had to ship the Razor back to Monstrum after this video so that they could have it at SHOT next week.

[@modernwar2ghostrp]

you should check the turrets. the largest issue ive had with cheaper optics is the accuracy of the turret adjustments. some cheap optics do great while others can be over 10 percent off.

[@Moondog2A]

Good point. Though both of these scopes were capped turret so weren't deisgned to dail in dope.

[@NoTimeForThatNow]

Razor is better, but not 12x better! As a relatively inexpensive scope the Monstrum is incredibly capable and nothing to sneeze at.

[@Moondog2A]

Which LPVO do you rock?

[@koolerthanapolarbear]

Only $200 msrp for the panzer? Thats a pretty crazy price point.

[@Moondog2A]

I know, right?! Hope you subscribed.

[@bayouromanian]

Excellent video. I would love to see a Monstrum 5x prism comparison with Vortex Spitfire or acog. Monstum's prism scopes look interesting and I really enjoy your videos.

[@Moondog2A]

Thanks! I never understood the benefit of a 4x prism vs a 4x fixed power scope which is so m uch lighter. Is it the durability of a prism over a tube scope?

[@bayouromanian]

@@Moondog2A the Vortex and Monstrum 5x micro prisms are in around 11 ounces and can be paired with small red dot light weight package the may offer quicker transitions than red dot magnifier setups

[@bayouromanian]

I think the acog is a little heavier with a mount. The lightwieght prisms with red dots either on top of the prism or in an offset configuration generally make for light weight setups

[@nrf2009]

Without looking at any comments or watching the video my guess is the cheaper optic will be ok or pretty good at shorter ranges like 200 yards and in, while the Razor will be better at all ranges especially longer ranges. I suspect the biggest difference will the size of the eye box, or the ease of getting a good sight picture on the Monstrum will be terrible while it will be amazing on the Razor

[@Moondog2A]

I'm curious to find out what you think after watching. Hope you subscribed.

[@nrf2009]

@@Moondog2A great video ( I am a subscriber). I was surprised by the 36" sign at the top of the hill comparison, also the fish eye comparison! I own a number of Razors (not the 1-10 though). Personally I use lpvos mostly for 3 gun. It sounded like the Monstrum might work, but unfortunately 3 gun really needs a daylight bright reticle.

[@redacted3610]

Durability and holding zero are arguably the most important aspect of an optic. The Amazon reviews of the Panzer back up my suspicion of shitty build quality as it seems the Panzer breaks after basic range use.

[@Moondog2A]

Monstrum told me they've had to replace a bad factory batch of Panzers sold in December. They're aware of those QC issues and are working to make it right. But it's got knock-on effects on reliability perceptions.

[@redacted3610]

@@Moondog2A Definitely, rooting for them to recover and grow. The American giants need more competition.

[@Moondog2A]

@@redacted3610 It's all good. Cyclops Joe and other KZbinrs called out Vortex a few years ago about the shoddy QC on their scopes. Sure they have a Lifetime Warranty but when your scope spends more time getting shipped back and fourth to Vortex than on your rifle that's hardly "quality". Thanks to them pointing that out, I think Vortex has "slightly" improved their QC?

[@MrZhaokuo1225]

I owned and looked through a variety of LVPO of different tiers. Razor gen III was not impressive for its price tag. I actually prefer razor genii 1-6 sfp because The glass is better. The best competition LVPO will be Swarvoski Z8 1-8 and K18i for the glass and weight. The best combat LVPO is going to be Schmidt bender dual cc 1-8

[@Moondog2A]

What about the Nightforce ATACr 1-8x? Hope you subscribed.

[@bayouromanian]

As a fan of this chanel it makes me happy to see how many reviews this video has. Im still hoping to see Monstrum 4x or 5x micro prism comparison, I havent seen one on YT as of yet.

[@Moondog2A]

I haven't gotten into prism scopes. Why do you prefer them over red dots?

[@avar5852]

I’d say price point is the main factor. A 5x prism w/ an offset dot like Swampfox is about the same weight and the combo will cost less. I’m not a shooter but for SHTF situations I can’t see why the average joe would want to engage past 150-200 yards.

[@colby1398]

​@@Moondog2AMostly just because prisms don't make the dot blur like a red dot does for people like me with astigmatism.

[@AllThingsLoud_]

Vortex lpvo’s were the standard until we actually had other options to compare to it and started to see their downfalls. They’re still good but there are great options out now for cheaper prices. I’ll take the eotech 1-10 over it every day. The athlon eres is good as well. As far as the monstrum, I think it’ll fall flat with dusk/dawn and bright light shooting. It’s a balance of everything but doesn’t necessarily excel at anything. That being said, it’ll work for most as hardly anyone will take it outside of 200 yds.

[@mmancino1982]

I have the Eotech 1-10. It's phenomenal. And an even better deal with their military discount. I compared the Eotech to the razor at Scheels and there was no question the former was better in almost every way.

[@Moondog2A]

Good insight there. The Panzer coatings helped with CA better than the Razor but it's low light at 10x was meh. Hope you subscribed.

[@Moondog2A]

100% The EOtech has a best 1x reticle and like half the price of the Razor from the get go. Hope you subscribed.

[@gilvietor1918]

Well, I had no idea there was a cross till you pointed it out, in both optics lol.

[@Moondog2A]

It's not something you expect to see on a hill. And not a cross that HUGE. Hope you subscribed.

[@brettconey5616]

I can live with a scope that may not be quite as clear, or as sharp, as long as the reticle itself is clear. What I would like to know is which one holds up better under the stress of day to day use. I despise having a scope that will not hold 0 while under storage or daily use.

[@Moondog2A]

That is a valid concern. I have read some viewers have been succssful with both after 200+ rounds of 308

[@cyotedude]

Pre-viewing, i think the Vortex will have clearer glass, and better cross-hairs visibility with better shock/vibration resiliancy, assuming you put it through the torture test. Post-view comments: you revealed a plethora: begins with quality. 1. Razer Lense caps are not field grade; this is not a small thing. 2. Panzer does include field grade lense caps, and a good quality scope mount. 3. Tube diameter and MOA adjustments is significant, + to Razor HD Gen III. 4. 5-6 oz. Heavier Razor means robust materials build quality. This is what i expected in my pre-view comment. 5. The illumination bezel, not sure id pay for 15 clicks of brightness, im sure 5 settings are enough. 6. The 1x fish-eye distortion of the Razor is not bothersome. 7. The wider bezel of the Panzer i dont prefer, but is not bothersome. 8. The 10x clairity of the Razor is nice, but my old eyes prefer the more visible markings of the Panzer. Not what i expected in my original pre-view comment. 9. The red-dot illumination daylight bright of the Razor is a good selling point, sorry Tank Tread missed this. 10. The sharpness and clairrity of the Razor at 50 and 100 yarrds, is what i expected in my original pre-view comment. Overall, obviously i would prefer the much more expensive Vortex Razor for many reasons. But, honesty, the Panzer does work well given the parameters of this rewiew. And with my prolatariat budget, we all know what this Texan will put on his PSA budget AR10. The selling points and, more in focus, the price points are all there with the Monstrum Panzer for me.

[@Moondog2A]

Excellent rundown! Hope you subscribed, I'll like to see more of these on my future reviews.

[@cyotedude]

@@Moondog2A yessir, I did indeed.

[@jhonnysrivera2002]

I’ll take the panzer any day of the week the price difference for a average worker is not enough to justify the daylight brightness when either way you’re probably going to be zoomed in outside if you where to use it in a real life scenario

[@Moondog2A]

100%

[@SamFBM]

unless you had either side by side you'd never know. panzer ftw

[@Moondog2A]

Truth. Hope you subscribed.

[@saratj1]

I have an old monstrum prism scope on my AR and love it, I even bought a vortex strike eagle but havent mounted it yet partly out of laziness but partly because why ?the monstrum prism does well for the shooting I do. Its a great optic for the money isnt very gucci looking but who cares

[@Moondog2A]

Monstrum has impoved the quality of their glass every year. You'll be surprised how much better their prisms are today.

[@Everythingallthetime666]

I did the 1 mile milk jug challenge out in Utah, I used a monstrom scope, inexpensive indeed but very accurate.

[@Moondog2A]

Hope you subscribed. What were you shooting? 6.5? .300?

[@Angakuk19]

For a price, I would 100% go with Monstrum. Small details difference for 90% cheaper lol.

[@Moondog2A]

It's like the Military Industrial Complex: pay 10x extra for 10% extra performance. Hope you subscribed. More comparisons coming.

[@rumnboats7612]

love to see you check out Hawke scopes.

[@Moondog2A]

I've looked at Hawke's fiber dot LPVO at SHOT show last year and appeared as bright as a Vortex but it was only available in simple duplex reticle. Check out my Hawke Sidewinder review kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXK9cqyrfs9-jtk

[@The340king]

If it’s anything like my Arken LPVO, the glass was really good. My only challenge was working through the parallax at 8 power. I don’t have any doubts that the Monstrom is going to look very close to the Vortex.

[@Moondog2A]

What do you think now you've seen the tests?

[@The340king]

@@Moondog2A I found it interesting. It is difficult to compare visual things without being there looking through them with your own eyes. Everyone sees things a little differently. I don't know that I would spend the extra money for the Vortex. I have this same dilemma with my Leupold Mark V. It's a great scope, but it's hard to justify the cost compared to my Arken EP5. There's arguably not enough difference.

[@psy-chopps]

i just got the monstrum blackbird 5x, am very happy with what i got for $99

[@Moondog2A]

What made you pick the blackbird instead of a Banshee 1-6x, the weight? Hope you subscribed.

[@psy-chopps]

@@Moondog2A i chose the blackbird because its an extremely sleek little optic, probably the best looking optic for the price imo, i like the circle dot reticle & the fact that its etched in. all my life if ran essentially a 3-9x40 scope & wanted to try a fixed magnification prism. currently running on a hoffman tactical 3D2A Orca & the combo is outstanding for hogs @ medium range. planning on doing a short review soon.

[@Moondog2A]

Sweet. For hog range that's a perfect choice. You running NV or purely a day hog hunter? @@psy-chopps

[@psy-chopps]

@@Moondog2A looking at 3d printable night vision options right now, & exploring android flir options, but currently just working in low light conditions using solar lawn lights @ night.

[@harveylin3548]

I have the Panzer and for $200 it's not terrible. However one thing I did notice is that almost all the budget scope builders, including the likes of Arken, all have terrible illumination features. None of their lights are visible on any daylight and are practically useless, I'd suggest just get rid of it all together for those budget scope builders and use that budget elsewhere. I will however, not spend $2500 to buy any scope that still have CA at max power. You can have a Zeiss LPR3 for less than that on sale nowadays.

[@Moondog2A]

Things are changing. I'm testing Monstrum's new daylight bright Banshee. Subscribe and stay tuned for that video review.

[@tsafa]

Why do they refuse to extend the t-post all the way out and make them slightly thicker as they grow outward.

[@Moondog2A]

I agree with the later. If the outer part of the T were much thicker, like an elongated arrow) it would solve most of issues I have with the reticle at 1x.

[@BuckF0eJiden]

High quality glass doesn't really start to shine until you start getting into higher magnification. The 10x magnification ratio of a 1-10x is a real equalizer for low quality glass when compared to high quality glass. A 5x ratio like a 5-25x would make that difference much more apparent. The real test in a 1-10 is turret accuracy and whether or not zero shifts (those two can be, but aren't always connected) For the ranges you'd use a 1-10x, I really wouldn't expect the average shooter to notice the difference, especially given what you pay. LPVOs are all tradeoff. You either get a great 1x, a great max magnification, or average on both, regardless of how much you pay. I'd expect a MPVO like a Mk5 HD 3-9x, or any of the big name 2-10/2-12s and a top mounted dot to out perform both of these, and the Vortex especially for the money. Even the US Optics TS-12 with a top dot would be a much better option for your money.

[@Moondog2A]

Great points. I'd add to that, really any decent 3-9x hunting scope with a top dot would serve most folks better than any LPVO. Hope you subscribe.

[@BuckF0eJiden]

@@Moondog2A I definitely will. The Primary Arms lineup of 4-14s and 4-16s are my current favorite AR scopes. Especially in their HUD DMR reticle. I have one with a top mounted Holosun 407c on a 20" build, with the magnification set to about 6.5-7x on the scope most of the time. I almost never touch the magnification adjustment on that build, but when I do, it's definitely a nice perk to be able to move up as high as 16x for PID and precision shots. The scope and the dot, with the mount, cost me right at $600, and it blows the capability of a 1-10 out of the water. The SWFA 10x42s with an offset dot are also fantastic and an option that a lot of people sleep on. You can pick those up for around $250 on black Friday, with a ton of accessories. Those scopes have some of the most accurate turrets in the game, too. I just wish they weren't over an inch high lmao.

[@FC2ESWS]

Nice comparison, but you gotta post these videos in 4K, so we can really see the optics clarity and resolution.

[@Moondog2A]

Thanks for pointing that out. Somehow my output settings have been incorrectly set. I thought it was in 4K. I'll have to post this and other recent Monstrum optics reviews in 4K.

[@FC2ESWS]

@@Moondog2A I saw another video that Monstrum posted that was in 4K, and that glass looks really good. Idk how they sell it for under 200. Might buy one just to check it out myself.

[@Moondog2A]

I rendered and uploaded a new 4K version but I don't see any improvement in the quality of the video? Do you see any improvement kzbin.info/www/bejne/gYCpe6CPgNt6aNEsi=jv4oKQmF_u5cFSn6

[@FC2ESWS]

@@Moondog2A Yeah I can notice it. Especially on the side by side comparisons. You using a 4k phone or TV?