Milk Crate Battery, Part 1, Easy 48v 16s LiFePO4

This is a down and dirty lithium build using some LiFePO4 cells. I'm arranging these as 16s for a 48v pack. I found an old milk crate that works great to house the cells. I padded around the cells with plywood. Since there is no good airflow around the cells I'll be limiting my amps to prevent overheating.
I bought the cells from batteryhookup.com/ but sadly, they are already sold out. But there are always some cool batteries for sale. Use the discount code "DAVIDPOZ" for 10% off your order.
This battery needs a BMS. I'll be testing a brand new BMS for this build. It's called the Tiny BMS. There are many advanced features I'll be exploring.
www.energusps.com/shop/produc...
If you would like to help support the channel please check out Patreon:
/ davidpoz
Disclaimer:
My videos are in no way intended to be instructional "how-to" lessons. I am simply documenting my project for informational purposes. Property damage, personal injury, or death may result, even when following manufacturer's instructions. I cannot be held liable for such damage or injury. It is YOUR OBLIGATION to ensure that you are complying with any local and federal laws as well as code and permit requirements.

[@eDoc2020]

Here's a protip I just made up for anybody making their own battery array of this style: leave the jumper between the two halves out until everything else is connected. That way if you accidentally make a short between the two sides nothing will happen.

[@ianmangham4570]

👍

[@urgencepc4563]

My house/farm burnt down up here in quebec last fall. I'll be rebuilding and NOT connecting to hydro. So grateful for you guys online sharing all that ''solar'' and ''batteries'' stuff. I almost feel like an expert now. :P

[@trevortrevortsr2]

The spec on that BMS is amazing - thanks for the link

[@homestyleoff-grid564]

I just binge watched all your videos, now I can't wait for more

[@NicholasSouris]

Part2 as soon as possible! I'm chomping at the bit here.

[@dogdipstick]

Hahahahah Thats great. I am doing an RV and got a 25kwh install to go and it is taking days to balance. I had steel boxxes bent and welded for the highway application and used 1/4 inch fiberglass back pane for the sides of the install, and a ton of plastic Gland nuts. protection. Dally 8s all around. These LifePo cells are gonna last for years. Keep showing us the cells David P

[@asabovesotabelow]

This summer I was deep diving in some test DIY e-bike project, to get my feet wet for a full on e-cycle project... Long story short some parts have arrived do to world shortages and such, 6 months later... I have forgotten much what I learned this summer lol and have to look at my notes but it looks like I was going with a 16s 1p build myself with very similar batteries ( 3.2v 75ah 240wh Lifepo4 ). I was shooting for a 48v build, or at least running the pack at 48v via the BMS hopefully.... Glad I found your video, its starting to refresh my mind...

[@andycanfixit]

Nice little package, I've been looking at some of these metal case prismatic cells for expanding my solar storage. I have about 14kwh now of existing storage with a 48 volt pack made of a couple of the byd batteries and then a 100ah pack made from 14 of those A123 lifepo4 36 volt packs they sold reconfigured into 10 48 volt packs in parallel. I've been using those ANT-BMS boards for my BMS on both, they've worked very well once I figured out how to change the default bluetooth address on the second one so you can use more than one in the same space. $120 for the 400a version and in my setup even if one of the two batteries failed or shutdown the other would never take more than 120amps peak, 80-90 amps max for short durations during daily use. With the two splitting the load, 40-60 is peak. Each additional battery with BMS further reduces the load each battery sees. Plus they are cheap enough to keep a spare on the shelf. They never even get warm in my daily use. I looked at the tiny bms, looked cool, interested to see how it worked, just couldn't justify the cost for my setup.

[@swormser865]

How did you change the ant bms , I bought some then found out 400amp is just instantaneous not contentiously maybe can do 100 continusly if you lucky

[@leviclark2573]

Excellent! Didn't even see these for sale they sold so quickly

[@tropmonky]

Looking forward to seeing the BMS

[@eldridish]

Looking forward to the next video, thanks Dave

[@SuperVstech]

Nice! I did the same with my60Ah cells, put em in my rolling toolbox. I love it!

[@dchome5635]

Would that be a Milwaukee rolling toolbox you installed them in?

[@fisherus]

Dave, another great video. I've been waiting to see what you were coming out with next as I am always anticipating your new videos. You must be busy, as it's been awhile since your last one. Sure wish I had a way to keep lithium batteries heated on my farm as they are more cost effective than my LTO batteries. I'll be waiting for your follow up on this one.

[@zeitGGeist]

This was awesome! I want to make one of these now

[@randykailey5836]

You are packing flammable material inside the battery pack!

[@ElementalMaker]

Great video David, Just ordered a bunch of Ring batteries on Batteryhookup and used your code. Great resource there, the prices per cell are pretty unbeatable.

[@3th1xs]

Hey! Good to see you here!

[@lasidora]

Nice video as usual David, your so lucky having Battery Hook Up located in the USA, they sell some very good batteries & very fair prices, I wish they had a UK based company, I would be ordering from them every month with some of the cool stuff they get.

[@backacheache]

This looks like it'd make a great battery for camping

[@No1JetDoc]

Seems like you would want to parallel them up for a while and maybe top balance with cells that have been in storage. Cool how they fit in the crate.

[@johnbeeck2540]

Congrats on the 100K Subs!

[@ziauddin7948]

excellent Lithium FePSO4 single 3.3 DCV batteries connected in series to increase the voltage # Thank U David for good explanation #

[@fortun8diamond]

Nice project. I want a 48 v battery myself to power up my house.

[@Todd_Gerhardt]

Nice build! This would be a beast battery on the back of my ebike trike haha

[@lloydrmc]

One of your many great builds. You are an amazing fabricator. Yours is my favorite, non-political, channel

[@zekeboz5533]

Looking forward to the review of the Tiny BMS. I’ll be curious on your thoughts when compared to your Chargery BMS.

[@lenturnbow6417]

Very cool David! Instead of those thermally isolating spacers, I'd prefer aluminum sheet between each battery, with exposed fins to get rid of waste heat. Obviously one would insulate them electrically.

[@bakadeshi_aunstudios]

LIFEPO4 batteries do not really heat up though, in Solar application. They are cooler than other chemestries anyway, but also Just don't pull enough amps to generate much heat like it may in an EV application.

[@surfreadjumpsleep]

great video. i'm looking forward to the bms video. I just blew up my SBMS0 by accidentally mixing up the positive and negative sensing wires. hooked it up and smoke... ah the smell of not going to be using the camper for a while. :(

[@NoelBarlau]

I was thinking of doing something similar in a 12v arrangement as a power pack for our little Gheenoe canoe with trolling motor. I hate lugging around two lead acid deep cycle cells for the purpose. Great job finding a way to reuse the copper!

[@JoeStoffa]

I made a 12V pack with 4x LiFePO4 using 105 Ah batteries off of AliExpress (~1.3 kWh). I placed them in a plastic "ammo can" and they've done wonderfully powering my 45 lb trolling motor on my 15' inflatable Kaboat. Total weight is about 22 lbs. Of course now I want to build a 48V pack and buy a 3 kW outboard so I can get on plane and maintain 10 knots...

[@donaldsmith3048]

That worked out really good. You can run the cables out one of the hand holes.

[@usamaansari1420]

Sir.. I perched po4 battery plz gained line

[@usamaansari1420]

My contact number 03162027748

[@57REDROOSTER]

Nice little pack

[@blakehafling6995]

Handy tip when working with sheet metals. Score a line with a razor knife and within two or three bends it will snap apart leaving a clean unbent edge. Way easier than tin snips not to mention quicker.

[@josepeixoto3384]

up to maybe 1/2 millimeter thickness,or more?

[@alialu4719]

Good Job

[@samsonite8017]

Hey thanks for making another really awesome video. Just an idea, if you cut plating a lot where you'd use hand tin snips, a nibbler is a fun tool to have in your arsenal hehe... They make really clean and precise cuts. I'm not sure what they cost these days, I have an old nibbler I inherited from my Grandpa when he passed so obviously if they cost a lot and you wouldn't use it very often then may not be worth it to get one in every case, but since you seem a bit like a tool junkie similar to me, it 'could' be a tool you could find interesting... I know I love mine even though I don't use it very often anymore, it is handy to have when I do need it.

[@nstufflebeam]

nice battery pack

[@nap8187]

Man this gives me an idea for a battery for my van...

[@joancarlescolomo2627]

Molt bon video. Gràcies per compartir. Very good video. thanks for sharing.

[@shahenfakhraldin4471]

Great work thank you for sharing

[@SolarEngineering]

thanks for video!

[@laredo8960]

What a bummer that copper pan is what I needed for one of my projects, and it was probably the size I needed! But at least copper good idea, I will use copper sheet to build my own box. Aside I do like your vids, I’m starting my off grid solar system for my 40ft Bus conversion as I go along building the bus.

[@anothergoogleuser]

Thanks for sharing.

[@ghulamsabir9461]

Good 👍👍👍 very good and very nice and very nice and very beautiful wark

[@GoingOffGrid101]

very nice setup, as soon as I saw the video i checked batteryhookup but I missed out :D

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Lol. yeah I think they were only on the website for two or three hours before they sold out. I just happened to be cruising their website at that exact right moment. I got lucky

[@GoingOffGrid101]

@@DavidPozEnergy doing great man! and its showing.

[@garystewart6093]

Flatten some old copper pipe, use a wire wheel brush, bets busbars for the price.

[@bkay042]

I did this for one of my DIY builds. Biggest PITA was getting the hole spacing correct and not overdoing it using the step bit like David did. What's the wire wheel brush used for though?

[@marcrismanga1283]

Waiting for tiny BMS test and review.

[@loucinci3922]

Cant wait for testing to begin. That looks like a "solar generator" in the making....curious on the cost of each battery.

[@denvera1g1]

Would love to be able to make a pack like this for my honda CRZ, but that would require a custom controller/BMS that actually works with the car's computer, a pack that would fit my CRZ would be over 6KW, or roughly 10x the capacity of the factor battery which drains and recharges very quickly

[@DracolegacyOfficial]

a quick and dirty trick i learned working construction is a plywood blade turned backwards can be used to cut thin sheet metal. something we used all the time for cutting aluminum siding or soffit.

[@Felixsilvajr11]

Need help getting started, what do you recommend? What is the best bang for the buck? Can you provide a system breakdown if possible.

[@tracym427]

I do like the milk crate idea. I should have 4 of the 280ah cells coming any day now. Been wondering what kind of case I would use for them and a 250A BMS. I think I’ll use the crate.

[@LithiumSolar]

Building in a milk crate was a great idea! How many of those crates do you could stack safely?

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I don't know the official limit. Full of milk is probably 35 pounds, and this is almost double. Maybe 3 stacked?

[@NoorRefrigerationsystem]

Wow amazing video I Love this channel, ❤❤💅❤

[@GapRecordingsNamibia]

Hi David, Well, nice again as always, On the hardware, Stainless steel has excellent corrosion resistance but electrically is a very poor conductor, Using as thin a bus-bar as you are I find it more appropriate using a zink plated nut rather than a stainless steel one as this increases the conductive area that you have through the copper plate making for a better connection. Regards Charles.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thanks

[@catskillwoodgas]

Nice batteries! FYI the problem is not using steel hardware, its using those zinc coated steel nuts on the Stainless steel battery studs. Eventually the will corrode weld themselves to the stud.

[@BigHeinen]

So many kayak and Jon boat fishermen would love to see the most compact and highest kw Hour output battery system to power their trolling motors. PLEASE!

[@leeackerson2579]

Hey David, love your videos. You may want to use the analysis power supply engineers use for conductors, they use CM/amp or circular mils per amp. A circular mil is really a box that is .001" x .001" square and they calculate the total circular mil volume by multiplying the cross section by width. For example, a .03" X 1" conductor would be 30 x 1000 or 30,000 circular mils. Engineers generally want to conduct about 300 to 500 CM/A or in the example 30,000/300 would be a max of 100 amps. At 500 CM/A that would be 60 amps.

[@opa-dick]

Maybe a good Idea to use Cooper Nuts next time with flat rings. That wil give you more contact surface on Both sides from the tap.

[@huysworld701]

Great video, question: can I lay the cell side way? Will it leak or effect performance? I am building a power box and laying side way give me more room to play with , thanks

[@DavidPozEnergy]

You can orient this type of cell any direction

[@geracaosolaroriginal]

Show ótimo trabalho parabéns!!

[@kswis]

Wish I'd seen these

[@madscience76]

Instead of taking all slack from the sides, Could you divide that extra air space in between each battery with spacers (like spacing tile) to get even a little bit of extra air flow in between the cells? If It isn't practical to divide the space between each cell, even 1 or 2 gaps in between the banks might help especially with any active cooling. Edit: Forgot to say thank you for the video, it is really cool

[@DavidPozEnergy]

your ideas very valid. I would love to include some version of active cooling for these cells. I thought about maybe grabbing some old roadside signs that are made out of chloroplast and maybe using that that way air could potentially move. I also thought about maybe getting some ceramic tile to have a spacer in between them but in the end I just wanted to do something that was fast and I'm going to be limiting the amps on these so they probably won't heat up anyways. But adding some version of active cooling would be ideal

[@winstonfoto6505]

Dave awesome video! So in theory could this configuration work as a house Battery system for a camper van? With proper BMS, Charge controllers etc. 3.5kw would be amazing 👏

[@aomanchutube]

I'm screaming to myself... plywood in the center!

[@TecSanento]

How much more batteries do you need? or what do you do with the earlier projects?

[@christopherbeddoe406]

I probably wouldn't use chevy as an good quality reference. 😉 They had to recommend customers park their Bolt EV's outside due to fire risk. Your channel is awesome though, much appreciated.

[@leemr.7905]

In normally, 16S cells is 52v battery. voltage is 58.4v.

[@silentone3142]

Very Kool, i have 3000watts ELIMINATOR inverter and charge controller but no batteries nor panels

[@nickdepuy7162]

Will these cells need to be compressed? It seems like the milk crate won’t provide enough pressure to keep them from expanding.

[@RUPoop]

Hey David. Just wondering if you would possibly make a video how you incorporate all the different types of batteries you have to work together in your system?

[@DavidPozEnergy]

That's a great idea for a video Thank you. I'll add it to my list of future videos

[@stalwart56k]

Hi David! Great video! 1) please remind me what the purple coating is? Tape or a brush on paste? 2) can you speak about the fire harzard potential or lack there of with this setup? I spent a day drilling holes in salvaged 2x2 angle iron for my battery rack to avoid using wood of any kind, just in case something happened. Powerwall will be in my basement.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

That is a machinist dye. It just allows me to scribe the lines for cutting/drilling. LiFePO4 cells are considered very safe and don't do the "thermal runaway" that can occur with Lithium Polymer. I'll also be adding a BMS, and limiting the amps to 0.5C (low) so i don't suspect I'll have any issue with heat.

[@theonlywoody2shoes]

These size cells are available in Europe from GWL.eu (I’m not affiliated in any way, just a very satisfied customer). Cost is around $65 per cell - brand new, but sadly nowhere near as cheap as you managed to get them for. One other use is 4 of these cells fit perfectly into a MakPak style size 2 power tool case, with just enough room down the centre for a BMS and fuses; makes a great portable 12v power unit for car camping - it powers my Dometic CFX35 compressor fridge for around 48 hours with no additional charging.

[@MacMcCabe2456]

Can you possibly give some info on a milk crate size battery (assembly & parts required) info or how you would put together a 36 Volt Golf Cart battery for a EZGO Golf cart ? Thanks, great videos.

[@basslifexxl2391]

David love videos! Need ur help what is the most ah lithium i can buy for the price to go under hood. Have a big xs power in it now with plenty more room. so fit big batt! seen a 190ah from i think bms? idk. 550$ 4 cells but not sure if safe under hood. phlz help recommend what i should buy???

[@markrobinson2983]

Hi any chance of getting the price you paid for the batteries 🤔

[@joepah51]

nice fit.. milk crates usually hold 4 gallons milk.. or 33 lbs.. 66 lbs is OK?

[@stevehastie6032]

Just wondering how do you size what bms you need is there a calculation

[@DivineStatus]

I want to make battery pack for motor having 48 Rated voltage and 92 Amp continously current by using samung 18650 -30 Q cell ( 4.2 v max volt, 3.6 nominal voltage , 3000 mAh , 15 Amp continously discharge current ) 11S6P Or 12S6P Or 11S30P Or 12S30P . Which combination is correct please let me know Thank you

[@ChampionCCC]

Hi David, I want to build a 48v LiFePO4 pack with 3.2v AliExpress cells. But should I build it as 15s or 16s. 3.2v x 15s = 48v while 3.2v x 16s is 51.2v. Basically, why do you choose 16s rather than 15s ? I currently have 4s4p of 12v Lead-Acid batteries - so a 17kw Lead-Acid powerwall, but less that half is usable because you cannot drain Lead-Acid too much and charging rate gets massively reduced after about 80% full - so it's basically impossible to go over 80% and you cannot drop much lower than 40%. Keep up the good work. Excellent knowledge transfer to us new learners :)

[@paulmoretto1224]

Do you have to worry about cooling for a power wall?

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I have all my batteries located in my garage which is cooled in the summer so I don't worry about overheating. I also limit the amps for charging the cells so they don't overheat.

[@LeslieIsgrigg]

What is the manufacture and part number, I can't even find the data sheet for these cells, never mind finding that actual manufacturer. Also what was the per battery cost? Of course another interesting video, keep up the great work.

[@unknown-unknown69]

These cells are LIFEPO4 cells comparing them to lithium-ion batteries They are cheper and more stable, but performance lithium do better Lithium-ion 512wh/litre Lifepo4 about 300 wh/litre its like double If you you are familiar with electronics Because they both may explode when overcharge them or die whe overdischarge them They need a BMS A board circuit that protect these cells from damage

[@BlackdogDeaf]

Is this will be working Forklift 48V? For how long will be hold?

[@stephanmetph]

Still waiting for the vw beetle update ;-)

[@VincentsfamilyCali]

Hello experts, I put a 4S DALY BMS to my 272AH pack and check the voltage from BMS P- to Batter B+ and it show 3.11V, when i check from Battery B- to B+ it show 13V.... is the voltage from P- suppose to be same as B- ? thanks

[@DavidPozEnergy]

First, check that all the balance wires are in the correct order. Second, connect the BMS B- wire to the negative battery post BEFORE connecting your balance leads. Third, if the BMS is still in "standby" mode, sometimes it needs to see a charge current to wake up. Hook it up to a charger and see if it allows the charge current through.

[@shanemeder1]

Hey. Don't know if I missed it but what did it cost you do make the 3kw battery.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I think I spent $400 buying the cells from battery hookup.

[@geraldgrogan]

Did you see that there are some companies that are now selling professional looking cases for 16 of these prismatic cells and a place to mount the BMS? Looks like there are companies that are cashing in on selling kits with batches of 16 matching new cells along with their custom cases for about $1600 with everything included. I haven't seen where they sell the cases separately yet however.

[@hawkeye312456]

Is it possible to use a 24 volt inverter on a 48 volt solar battery bank ?

[@ze_german2921]

67lbs. I once had a 100AH AGM lead battery it also weight 70lbs. this is 3KW!

[@WiSeNhEiMeR-1369]

HOWdy D-P, Thanks for the VIDEO This might be my solution for an initial BATTERY What do you SUGGEST for Airflow & Ventilation ? COOP ...

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Generally, if you don't stress the battery with high amperage, then you don't need to incorporate a cooling strategy. I try to build to a 0.5C rate and then the cells don't get hot enough to worry about. But, if you are building for an EV or something with high Amperage, then you will want to have air space and fans.

[@RafaelSantos-ni9ck]

Bom dia david sou Rafael do Brasil onde posso encontrar dessas baterias

[@piotrgruszkowski2106]

Provide the link where you bought these batteries Please. (long life lithium lon batteri) Thank you

[@lr7815]

There's a van supplies store that sells something that looks exactly like that pan as a shower for 800$

[@sreekumarUSA]

082220/2147pst. Davis thank you. It was nice seeing you got hold of a good bunch of Lithium Polymer cells. The question:- Why was the marker pen blue colour left as it is on the connecting Cu strips? Surely the serrated end on the nut will cut into the Cu strip, creating a good contact, I know. But...esthetically.. I’m looking forward to the next segment. Cheers n 73s... Correction:- read as LiFePo4 instead of LI Polymer cells.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I left the blue dye on the copper purely out of lazyness. You are correct that the nut will bite through. It is just looks, not function.

[@65bigfalconable]

Hi From Australia :) Do you know if they post to Australia? Great videos.... have been very helpful

[@tln8424]

This is ideal for motor cycle ev conversion I am planning. I know these are sold out but can you day how much you paid for the whole group?

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I think I paid $400

[@mendozaconsultation]

What would you charge to make a 12v 300ah Lithium ion battery that will charge from car alternator for now and solar in the future.? I'm looking to run CPAP machine that I just bought the kit to run on 12v, microwave, phone and tablet. I have a 1500w PSW INVERTER,

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Sorry, but I don't build batteries for sale. But this one could do the trick for you: www.altestore.com/store/deep-cycle-batteries/lithium-batteries/kilovault-lithium-solar-battery-p41011/#KLV3600HLX-V3

[@caseytbss]

Zinc conducts better than stainless steel also😉

[@Richardincancale]

Thanks, as a matter of interest how much did they cost?

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I think I spent $400 buying the cells from battery hookup.

[@teslafudge1585]

DavidPoz Great deal 👍 Just saw an old Jehu walkthrough of their operation. They seem great.

[@diyEVguy]

@@DavidPozEnergy That is $400 / (3.2V x 60Ah x 16ct) = $130/kWh, which is even less than the cost per kWh for a Tesla Model S/X module from my local California junk yard. Very good deal *if* the capacity is near 60Ah.

[@richardlinked8797]

David, great video and I just bought a Tiny BMS. But I have a quick question not on this video, when you got your BMW batteries they came with the orange connectors a bunch of us are trying to figure out what type of connector they are and size, and why you can give us the spec or some kind of part number. Thanks Rich

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I didn't see a part number on the orange connector but maybe if I break it apart from the base I can find one hiding in there. But it's going to be a while before I can get a chance to get some high res photos up on Facebook for you

[@richardlinked8797]

@@DavidPozEnergy even if you can get the size and mayby a pic I can make one... Thanks David

[@richardlinked8797]

@@DavidPozEnergy OK, thanks

[@TaylorMadejdm1975]

Could I use this in my 48v golf cart....!!?🙂 ( to save weight and get more power hopefully and range..?)

[@aahhh6947]

Wondering the same thing

[@jaycharles9548]

Question 101 : how do you know if you should go with 12 or 24 or 48 volt battles . Wanting to do a SMALL solar project for home.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I like 48v for nearly every situation. The exception would be installing the system in a van, and the van already is 12v. It used to be that 48v inverters were way more money than 12v, but in the past decade (and especially the past 4 years) that has become less true. There are plenty of good 48v inverters in similar price points as 12v inverters. I see no reason to go 12v anymore (most of the time)

[@vincentlouis3363]

Have you done a video on the sigineer 5000watt inverter?

[@DavidPozEnergy]

No I've never tested a signier 5000 watt inverter