Milk-V Mars First Look: Quad-Core 1.5GHz 64-bit RISC-V SBC plus Updated SD/eMMC Images

[@qaziquza]

For what it's worth, the quality of the audio/video is high enough to be unobtrusive, for me.

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Hey glad to hear mate. I really appreciate you letting me know - I think the lapel mic helped a lot, but I did turn the ISO up too high I think; had to do a _little_ postprocessing on it.

[@stylesoftware]

Guys, when your booting an SBC for the first time, and wondering if it's crashed: Keep an eye on the power draw. It will fluctuate as it's booting. Give it a few seconds for the boot loader, and then watch... If you get no change in current draw, "she aint booting" as they say in aussie.

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Yeah super good point, and that threw me off here. I am not sure if I left it in the final cut or not, but even when crashed, it was going from 400 to 700mA or so, hence I thought it was doing stuff. Probably just all that backdoor spyware these ship with 🤣

[@morgan8254]

I also bought the same model (v1.2 version, 4GB memory). It cost approximately 77 AUD (359 CNY).

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Nice! I've got the CM board coming as soon as there is stock! Where did you get yours from?

[@morgan8254]

I live in China. bought it from the official Wechat account.@@PlatimaTinkers

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Sorry for the delay, good to know!

[@Razor_Burn]

Nice to see you continuing the RISC-V videos with MIlk-V releasing some affordable boards but software support is sadly lacking on launch with this one. 😢

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Yeah it is unlike them in my opinion, especially after how well the Duo went. Eg they should have eMMC, SD and NVMe images available, not to mention a bit more info about the debug process. Definitely still a ripper product!

[@bellotto2551]

Love your content, mate. Cheers from South Brazil

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Thanks @bellotto2551 - much appreciated! Weather there looks about the same as here, enjoy 🍻

[@writer9999]

Wait! Was that gnome de running natively on the milk v Mars? If yes, then the basic animations were still smooth af considering how nascent risc v is rn.

[@PlatimaTinkers]

XFCE with LightDM if I recall correctly! And yeah the UI was pretty bloody smooth anyway. More RAM and it would have run great. Got the 4GB CM sitting around to try next for this

[@LivingLinux]

Nice video. Just a little remark, it's RISC-Five, the V is the Roman numeral.

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Hah yep I am well aware, it's just more effort to say, and I'm a creature of poor habits - like ESD safety 😂

[@turanamo]

I never say RISC-Five. If they wanted people to recognize it as a Roman numeral, they should have put parallel bars.

[@PlatimaTinkers]

@@turanamoHahaha YES, thank you my friend. RISC-V just sounds badass too. So... Milk-V or Milk-Five?

[@lorddeus369]

Milk V cause its more mysterious

[@PlatimaTinkers]

@@lorddeus369 Seconded hah

[@diegosantos9757]

Thanks for the great vídeos! I spent all my day going though your channel, great staff!! Do you know if Milk has fixed this issues recently?

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Hey thanks, much appreciated! Which specific issue are you referring to? They're constantly releasing new images :)

[@diegosantos9757]

The issue booting it, when it doesnt get out of the white Milk screen. Thanks!!

[@PlatimaTinkers]

@@diegosantos9757 There are a pile of things that can cause that, but USUALLY a bad image / storage. If you connect to the UART lines with something like a CP2104 you'll be able to see the debug messages.

[@timballam3675]

First power-up should not be interrupted as it's setting up and will be writing to the EMMC?

[@PlatimaTinkers]

With some configs yes, but not with how this image works. Power up -> chip checks DIP swtich -> reads OpenSBI and uBoot from SPI flash -> Loads kernel (from eMMC in this instance, once I got it working) -> Loads Linux OS from SD (in this instance). In this instance, it didn't get past reading OpenSBI due to the config corruption. Turns out Mr Geerling had the same issue with the CM version!

[@niceride]

Let's get HomeAssistant running on this JH7110-based board.

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Oh man I cannot wait. It'll likely take the Debian 13 release, but it should be worth the wait!

[@yorks_atheist3069]

Im loving the RISC V progress I have several boarde now inc the visionfive 2, and the cpu unfortunately isn't atm matching pi3 performance. Was hoping mars would have gone for something with a little more grunt but might be tempted with the compute modules for a project

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Yeah that's insane hey. I am looking at testing out a VisionFive 2 soon, but it'll be best to wait for Debian 13. The VF2 as-is should compete somewhere between RPi3 and 4, but it's held back slightly by drivers. The CM has the huge win of WiFi onboard, which is tempting me quite a bit... Kind of want to build a stack of them as a cluster haha. What sort of grunt are you after though? I have literally dozens of SBCs of all varieties and might be able to test or point ya. If it helps, so far one of my favs is the OrangePi 5B which smashes everything I've used as far as performance. Plus they are an Armbian platinum partner, so you know it'll be optimized!

[@Razor_Burn]

Their Meles version uses the more powerful TH1520 chip and should have similar performance to the Sipeed Lichee Pi4A but cheaper. I suspect they're holding out releasing it as software just isn't ready yet?!

[@PlatimaTinkers]

That is what I'm thinking too!

[@kingyachan]

There's a "compute module" variant, think you'll cover that? I'm very curious and there's very little coverage of it

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Yeah mate got one sitting on my desk! Just a backlog of SBCs to get through haha.

[@kingyachan]

@@PlatimaTinkers sick! I actually placed an order for two of them earlier today, but would love to hear your opinion on them. Good to hear Arace is decent from a fellow Aussie too, getting SBCs in Australia can be a pain 😅

[@PlatimaTinkers]

@@kingyachan Yeah sweet! I am trying to figure out the best baseboard too, and think I MIGHT get DeskPi Super6C. Hah yeah, it hurts here - hence starting to list more on shop.plati.ma as I can buy bulk to save on shipping and share with others!

[@kingyachan]

@@PlatimaTinkers I'll check out the Super6C! Yeah I'll definitely have to check out your shop, looks like a lot of the bit I want hahaha

[@PlatimaTinkers]

@@kingyachan What country you in? I'll make sure we've got shipping there!

[@Nexxxeh]

I love the content. Some great little touches in production too, like the boot time indication bar. But the only subtitles I was offered was the English (auto generated) ones which I don't think had your corrections in (unless you missed bits). "Aran" instead Armbian, "Milk fee" (iirc) instead of milkV, "gooey" rather than GUI etc. They were generally good, but would have been difficult for someone who needed them to follow.

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Hey that is appreciated. I actually wanted to add a counter too, as some bits I sped up and want people to know the real speed but... forgot. Hah. I was rushing a bit with that one! Yeah I am just editing the ACTUAL subtitles now, instead of auto generated. Should be uploaded in an hour or two! Thank you kindly for the feedback and input.

[@xylopyrographer9664]

I think the links to the Custom Images are reversed?

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Hah good catch, fixed! Thanks

[@xylopyrographer9664]

Hi. About 15:45 in, you grab what looks like an eMMC to USB interface board? Could you post a link to that? Also (new to SBC's) the eMMC module you grab - is that a standard? Asking as I've just bought a Libre "Le Potato" which has an eMMC slot with one connector and looking to buy an eMMC card but noted other cards, like for the OrangePi, have an eMMC card with two connectors? Could you also post a link to the eMMC card you used? Thanks for the video!

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Hey mate no worries. Here's a few options, all of which I use and work fine. Not sure about that single/double connector off the top of my head though, maybe Google knows. From Pine64: pine64.com/product-category/single-board-computer-accessories/ (noted these are single connector like yours, maybe lower speed) From Arace: arace.tech/search?q=emmc (I think I've been using these ones recently) From Allnet: shop.allnetchina.cn/search?type=product&q=emmc (I've also used these a lot recently) From Amazon: amzn.to/3v08boj (Affiliate Link) - these are from the Orange Pi store and are the ones I've used in some production deployments. And you're very welcome! Cheers for the feedback

[@xylopyrographer9664]

@@PlatimaTinkers Thanks for the links. Interesting that most of those eMMC cards have two connectors. Seems like the pin out of the actual chip is standard but each vendor designs a carrier card specific to their boards? Doesn’t seem to be a standard pin out or form factor like SO or DDR type memory. Makes it a bit confusing for the consumer.

[@PlatimaTinkers]

@@xylopyrographer9664 Not worries! And possibly but I had a look at some of the specs of the eMMC modules and different PCB designs and all the ones with dual connectors appear that only one connector is electrically relevant, and the second is just for mounting support!

[@xylopyrographer9664]

@@PlatimaTinkers Was wondering if that was the case. I’ve thought a mechanical latch would be a better thing but good to know for sure!

[@PlatimaTinkers]

@@xylopyrographer9664yeah seemingly no standard as you touched on, but better than nothing I guess!

[@originalmianos]

For the price, I'd expect much better qa. There has to be quite a lot of margin. That CPU is not that expensive. Sifive reference design?

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Hey mate yeah it looks extremely close to a reference design, but I cannot find one exactly like it. SBI config corruption in the SPI flash (god that kills me) could be from anything though; hardware seemed fine, just that one config that wants mmcblk0 instead of 1!

[@originalmianos]

@@PlatimaTinkers Don't some of those spi flash loaders start in single then go to quad rate read? Probably messed that up.

[@kayakMike1000]

​@@PlatimaTinkersisn't the name set in the device tree?

[@kayakMike1000]

​@@originalmianosI have heard that, default is a slow stable connection, but reconfigure into much faster line protocol.

[@PlatimaTinkers]

@@kayakMike1000hey which name are you referring to?

[@JaykPuten]

9:47 why not Rufus? Not using windows(forget if etcher has Linux support)? Or just prefer it? I love Rufus smaller size, and more options... Granted that's more I can occasionally mess up, but it also lets me make bootable USBs with free space after for files n such I'm gonna install on whatever PC, or for my persistent USB Linux system I *always* have, it lets me keep a fat32/ex/NTFS partition to show windows users pics n videos n books without the annoyance of windows not reading ext2/3/4 natively... Though again sometimes I do mess things up because I have so much control, so not for new users, but I doubt you or anyone watching this is new to... Any OS, or software... However that hardware is sick(in the good way)

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Hey mate I use Rufus heaps, quite like it acutally. If Linux I just use `dd` though haha. Balena is my usual go-to now, as ... I don't know why. It seems to work more frequently than not, as I guess sometimes I'll miss an option in Rufus which breaks compatibility. It also does not fill the device, so it leaves space at the end if need be, but I always expand the root partition anyway!

[@ZaCaptain1229]

Do you have a case you recommendfor this SBC I just bought one recently, and it gets quite warm.

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Nah not yet hey. If you get the Mars CM and Waveshare Pi4 IO Board (shop.plati.ma/products/waveshare-cm4-to-pi4-adapter) you could probably stick it in a Pi4 case though! That being said, the Mars layout looks very similar to a Pi3, so those cases may fit. Just the USB-C port I'm not entirely sure about.

[@ZaCaptain1229]

@@PlatimaTinkers I'm looking at a "Stackable Pi 5 Case" I'm not sure if I'll need/It will work with the included fan, but that's the hope. I just with these RISC V Boards had a little more support. Personally I think the upcoming Framework Risc V board might finally bring the support this community needs

[@PlatimaTinkers]

@@ZaCaptain1229 These boards / brands / SOCs, and some of the RISC-V technology such as RVV1.0 and RVA22 are all quite new, so we're essentially at the start of what I am hoping is a huge improvement in the RISC ecosystem and a bit of push back against ARM and their proprietary / closed / licensed dominance. The Framework laptop unfortunately uses a JH7110, so I won't be holding my breath for it. Those are in the StarFive VisionFive2 and Milk-V Mars, and whilst good, do lack those two key ISA developments I mentioned above. The SpacemiT K1/M1, and anything with C908 cores, would be the way to go. Eg MuseBook (I've got one coming), MusePi (got one coming too), Milk-V Jupiter, Banana Pi-F3 (although it performed poorly), etc. The Mars is good with the C910 cores though, as those at least have RVV0.7.1! Unfortunately I don't think the Pi5 cases line up with Milk-V products, however, you could put the Mars CM on a Waveshare CM4 to Pi4 board (I have in stock), and use a Pi4 case. I might also have to make my own Mars cases, since they don't seem to exist. Hope that helps.

[@ZaCaptain1229]

@@PlatimaTinkers If you do make Mars Cases I would definitely buy them. For right now (I have the Mars in the mail,) I think I'm just going to modify the plastic case it comes with, using an Exacto Knife to cut a hole for the ports. This is my first Risc V board, so I'm not planning on doing anything too crazy with it, but we're going to have to see. I did see your Ubuntu video on the Mars, so I think I'm going to stick with official Debian Build. (Good advice in General I think) But I did see that Box 64 was able to run on the Jupiter, so I'm gonna push my luck and see if I can get the Mars to do it

[@PlatimaTinkers]

@@ZaCaptain1229 hahaha great idea using the plastic case it comes with. Okay I might see if there are any readily available 3D models, and then print some. Currently printing some Duo cases of various configurations. Congrats on getting into RISC-V! Have not tried the Jupiter yet, unfortunately they forgot to send me one 😑 Good luck with Box64!

[@johnhunt1725]

I know there's a lot of enthusiasm out there for RISC-V, but I'm not feelin' it.

[@PlatimaTinkers]

It's not for everyone, but it's catching up to ARM quick, hence nVidia, Western Digital, etc, all putting so much into it. Once it's caught up, it can be used royalty free, which breaks ARMs monopolisation and lowers the cost of implementation for producers such as those that make mobile phones, IP cameras, network storage, etc

[@johnhunt1725]

@@PlatimaTinkers I don't think saving 1%-2% per chip in royalty fees is as compelling a reason to choose RISC-V over ARM as you might think. Not having to deal with ARM in the first place might be a more compelling reason.

[@PlatimaTinkers]

​@@johnhunt1725 Hrmm, I'd beg to differ. Economies of scale my friend. If Samsung shipped about 250,000,000 phones in 2022, with the ARM-based Snapdragon SoC taking up maybe $25 of their manufacturing cost, that gives you $25 * 250000000 * 0.015 (assuming 1.5% to average it) so a saving if $93.75 million... I'd consider putting a corkscrew through my own privates for that fat wad haha. Even if I am off by an entire factor, that's still a stupidly large sum IMHO. Then there are some other and less-financial motivations; competition drives innovation, RISC-V is more module and customisable than ARM's designs, RISC-Vs transparency can lead to increased security, being license-free allows more smaller organisations or start-ups to utilise the technology without sub-licensing, there's no vendor-lock, etc. I'd say where people are using it, it is likely the best solution, or at least the best available to them at the time. ARM make a great ISA, and have a market dominance with a more mature ecosystem, but it doesn't mean that competition is not viable or valid.

[@johnhunt1725]

@@PlatimaTinkers Economies of scale work both ways. $93.75 million is a lot of money to you and I, but it's pocket change to a company like Samsung. And don't forget that changing ISAs, while certainly feasible, wouldn't come without its own costs. In any case, RISC-V doesn't have much of a chance to supplant ARM in the personal computing or server spaces unless and until someone is willing to invest hundreds of millions if not billions into developing high performance RISC-V cores that can compete with ARM cores in the all-important GFlops per Watt metric. Of course, whoever does that isn't just going to give those core designs away for free just because they use an open source ISA. They would either be used exclusively in-house by the creator or they would - you guessed it - sell licenses for them. Personally, I don't see anyone stepping up to that plate - except perhaps the Chinese government.

[@catafest]

can you test a Fedora Linux distro? is Out of stock. It would be great if this would come with 16Gb would be better if the price is not increased.

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Yo why run Fedora when you've got Debian? 😂 Joking of course. Instruction for running it on the C920 (very similar RV64 arch) can be found at fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/RISC-V/T-Head and look solid. Oooh actually they have images specifically for JH7100 at openkoji.iscas.ac.cn/pub/dl/riscv/StarFive/JH7100/images/ which is very close, might just be missing some GPU functionality. You can get an 8GB model, then you could boot to SD, but use eMMC for swap + app data or your homedir.

[@catafest]

@@PlatimaTinkers where can be found an 8G model on Europe ? Thank you for sharing.

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Hey mate I am just not sure sorry. Your best bet is to go to the main website and check out all the global distributors. Eg milkv.io/mars then hit 'Buy now'

[@stylesoftware]

Thumbs and Subed, NZ

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Hey welcome mate, thanks for the support!

[@lorddeus369]

Somebody sponsor me too 😂

[@PlatimaTinkers]

I'll sponsor you with love

[@lorddeus369]

@@PlatimaTinkers Unlimited Powwaaaaah

[@PlatimaTinkers]

@@lorddeus369 😂😂😂

[@mattivirta]

only important have this board all GPIO pins same than raspberry pi, and can i use same all software than raspberry pi have, i mean can i use my, linuxcnc software whitout any external code change etc. and can i use this whit raspberry pi build mesa FPGA board together. not need change anything in code or GPIO pins. thats is only important what need know, can use better board whit olden hardware what has used before raspberry pi 4. only change new better board and use all same software and hardware whit new board.

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Yep so it has the Pi2 header, which is standard on most SBCs these days. You can see the pinouts here: github.com/milkv-mars/Hardware/blob/main/Mars_hardware_schematics/Mars_V1.11_20230821.pdf

[@The_Penguin_City]

Desperate like a child with a new toy.

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Absolutely haha

[@chuxxsss]

Morning, bit risk video, mate. 😅 How did you get on to pcbway to sponsor this?

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Hah, where's the risk brother? Don't you mean RISC? 😋 They just reached out since I already order piles of crap from them. Good bunch of folks to work with it turns out!

[@chuxxsss]

Melbourne?

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Hah nah but I was there recently. Spent way too much money on Espresso Martini's at Velvet Lounge... then on the blackjack tables 🤣

[@kleefan8]

I've been looking to pick one up (I'm in US), but Arace has none and can't find anyone on Ali either. 2G RAM pricing seems to be $39 at Arace...any idea what 4 or 8 G pricing is?

[@PlatimaTinkers]

Yeah everywhere is fully out of stock :( I did also get the pricing wrong, thanks for pointing that out. Will edit the video now. - 2GB $39 USD marked down from $59.90 - 4GB $49 USD marked down from $69.90 - 8GB $69 USD marked down from $89.90