Mill with Ashiok Tribal! | Pioneer | Against the Odds

[@tylerhamelin48]

My heart goes out to the Sultai player trying to Ballista into Kalitas. We've all been there.

[@DarkX64]

That took me a second to realize what happened and when I did I was like "Ohhhh nooooooooo. Poor sweet summer prince."

[@TheQueerLeaf]

Oh

[@TehSeksyManz]

I don't get it

[@niklasbauer7026]

The opponent tried to cast Ballista for 0, so it dies, and increase the delirium count. But Kalitas is a replacement effect, so Seth got a 2/2 and the Ballista exiled.

[@TehSeksyManz]

@@niklasbauer7026 Ahhhh I was thinking about it the wrong way. I was assuming that Ballista and Kalitas were being controlled by the same person.

[@Kerwanful]

"Opponent was playing some *weird* cards" -Ashiok Tribal Pilot

[@IntegralKing]

this is what ashiok tron can do! ... kalitas looking sad sitting in the corner for winning the game single-handedly ...

[@MTGGoldfish]

Kalitas is a honorary Ashiok this week ;)

[@Ghost26968]

"Gideon, Gideon" (selects opponent as attack target) 1:01:54

[@mrlescure]

Gideon goes to one! 😂

[@MidgarMerc]

The phrase of the day is: "this is a tough matchup for us"

[@MTGGoldfish]

= every matchup for Ashiok tribal ;)

[@prufrock1977]

Tyrant’s Scorn might be good in the sideboard.

[@wearealreadydeadfam8214]

That’s Mill for you. It’s basically slower Burn.

[@TheQueerLeaf]

Yep

[@theyonlycomeoutwhenitsquiet]

Ultimately, I love this deck. Ashiok is my favorite planeswalker in existence at this point. I am so glad there are enough to make a deck now. Maybe a tweaked version as a repeat later?

[@MTGGoldfish]

It could show up in Modern eventually :)

[@theyonlycomeoutwhenitsquiet]

MTGGoldfish oh, I would be so happy to see that. There’s been comments about torment of hailfire, do you think that a one or two of there would be worthwhile? And then in modern you’d get access to damnation, inquisition, maybe ancestral vision as an early play? I don’t know what you’d cut, but a more blue black control with Ashiok and eldrazi seems like a neat space to brew in

[@twoblueuntapped886]

I'm super disappointed by the lack of Ashiok's Erasure

[@MidgarMerc]

Would probably be a good answer to inverter. They can only bounce it so you just cast it again

[@twoblueuntapped886]

@@MidgarMerc that's a fair point. I was just thinking of it to stay on theme with ashiok. I didn't even imagine it being a legitimately good card

[@theashapeshift]

Ur name brings me anxiety lol

[@kennethritacco6959]

A single one of torment of hail fire would have been dope as well as scheming symmetry

[@endermeap6488]

That seems like a bit too spicy for an already spicy deck

[@Krossfyre]

Honestly I think the deck should have run Scheming Symmetry, it provides the flexibility to win the game consistently. Also, deck runs enough planeswalkers to run Bontu's Last Reckoning pretty safely. I think if the deck had those two cards it could have fought through more decks.

[@MTGGoldfish]

I was thinking about trying to play some big finisher for after stealing the opponent's lands, but I could fine one that felt right. Scheming Symmetry is spicy :)

[@FlawlessRhythmGG]

11:35 I love that Seth remembers what Ashiok does when HE is playing it but never when his opponent is playing it. xD

[@Th3Hakusho]

This video was at the top of my feed and all I could think was "YES"

[@dvaking7270]

I was trying to make an ashiok for a while. thanks for the showcase

[@TheOneMarty]

I actually made a Modern deck that kind of did this! It was an Esper build that would exile stuff with Delay, Relic of Progenitus, Spell Queller, Path to Exile and Anguished Unmaking. In the first place this was all to feed Nullifiers and Wasteland Stranglers, much like Seth did in this video. But once the board was clear I'd start dropping Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and Kaya and keep exiling till Kaya could ult. It was amazing vs Phoenix and Dredge; but I had a hard time with Tron and Jund, so it's not that viable now:(

[@dvaking7270]

@@TheOneMarty oooh that's sound so fun. I can see tron winning hard. I'll have to give this a try still. I'm not that competitive so i dont mind the losing matchup.

[@TheOneMarty]

I'll see if I can find the original decklist for you. Tune it as you please :)

[@Jonathan-qk5ed]

22:04... I've been scarred for life, I can't unhear that...

[@petersmythe6484]

(40:09) Gee, that Ulamog's Nullifier stole that game.

[@daievo073]

Too fun! Seems like doom blade, cast down, or some kind of edict effect would really help round out the removal package

[@HokaMagic]

Great deck Seth! I love how you adapted a lot of cards from Battle for Zendikar Standard. One thing I would change though would be the Lost Legacies. Unmoored Ego is a strictly better card that shares both of the colors of your deck. Keep making great videos man, love ya!

[@chemset475]

omg i love oblivion sower so much here lol amazing as always seth

[@ArchbardWava]

Man, what a set of matches! And what a sick last game! Ashiok and Oblivion Sower: name a more iconic duo.

[@chuckstevens4985]

Seth taking damage before killing some creatures hurt me mentally.

[@RobWirdWachsen]

Obviously waiting to see if there is a bigger threat coming in at second main... As long as he doesn't die it's the correct play

[@andrewmarinkovich8657]

I guess the last opponent brought in Tocatli Honor Guard to shut off Oblivion Sower, even though it doesn't work in that case because Oblivion Sower's ability happens on casting. It would shut off the Ulamog's Nullifier counter spell ability though, right?

[@Kestral287]

That's correct. Also works against Wasteland Strangler out of the board.

[@end-er_1023]

Thank you. I’ll definitely be using this as a shell for a deck.

[@grantwilliams1597]

Never thought about the interaction between adventure cards and the processors! Deece.

[@catnipdavesscratchingpost1422]

it's a Nightmare of a deck design.... waka waka

[@voidmaster6353]

Get off the scenario!!! X'D

[@liminal_entity1331]

I play a similar control/mill deck in standard revolving around using 4x Ashiok, Dream Render and 3x Nightmare Muse together to exile stuff and hopefully ultimate Muse to get back the opponent's three best spells and win the game on the spot, using mill as a backup plan. Otherwise, it's a pretty straight forward UB control deck: 4x Thought Erasure, 3x Thought Collapse, 3x Sinister Sabotage, 2x Devious Cover Up, 2x Ashiok's Erasure along with 2x Disinformation Campaign, 2x Ritual of Soot, 2x Cry of the Carnarium, 1x Muder and rounded out with 2x Discovery // Dispersal. There's also 4x Thief of Sanity in there too to keep the pressure on, and maybe eat a few burn spells, and 2x Murderous Rider because removal and life gain. I generally only play Bo1 on Arena with it, so I would build it a bit differently if sideboarding was an option. It's a lot of fun and at least semi competitive, as far as Bo1 is concerned anyway. Once people realize what it is I'm doing, they usually scoop. I might try tweaking it a bit to play in Bo3, if that's even still a thing in Arena, because I think it would do rather well with a good sideboard plan.

[@jacksonkohls820]

This is amazing. I love it

[@RyanIcey]

1:02:06 - My favorite moment. Gideon... *Seth punches opponent in the face for 4 damage* goes to 1... Also feels like it might need a Phenax or two. The devotion isn't much of a problem for the deck it seems, plus additional ways to mill end of opponent's turn?

[@danlewis7707]

Been looking forward to this! Ashiok is super cool!

[@FETUSSTATUS]

I always love these planeswalker tribal Against the Odds 🙂

[@MTGGoldfish]

They are some of my favorites too.

[@janloydllorada868]

Sweet! I actually voted for Ashiok on the MTG Goldfish poll. Love it! 🙂

[@MTGGoldfish]

Good choice!

[@crazymunk5159]

Love a good old tribal deck.

[@Eeeethereal]

25:33 The better play would have been the reverse. If he counters push, big Ashiok can remove the gingerbrute. If not, from that point on, small Ashiok could attempt bait the denial.

[@MTGGoldfish]

Hmm, yeah. It might have been. I was thinking that little Ashiok wouldn't be good enough for the opponent to spend a counter on (since they can just beat it down with creatures before it does anything), but it might have been worth trying anyway, just in case.

[@MstrKipper]

Kalitas, languishs, and cry of the carnariums Seth says bringing in one of each.

[@englishmuffinpizzas]

There has got to be something cool to do with those 20 lands you had. I feel like a nice spicy X spell would really bring this deck together

[@chriscunningham6401]

Such a sweet deck to play, probably very frustrating to play against though.

[@mushclone298]

Any reason for Lost Legacy over Unmoored Ego in the sideboard?

[@sethchapman1425]

Would not matter he would not play ego either.

[@alistercomins1806]

@@sethchapman1425 lost legacy cant hit artifacts or lands

[@WaterlooFlu]

The inverter combo can be hit easier with Lost Legacy. Edit: I guess not really. Whatever

[@MTGGoldfish]

Big reason: I'm an idiot :) I mean, the Persistent Petitioners matchup, duh ;)

[@sethchapman1425]

@@alistercomins1806 not wanting to get rid of those. We have stuff handling that. It gets rid of troublesome things, and gets rid of all copies.

[@IsesriX]

Thoughts on maybe splashing white for Kaya? With all the exile she could be a great win condition. Synergizes well, and has extra value against decks like that aura deck you played against here.

[@TheHouseCommunity]

Any thoughts of using Ulamog instead of big Ashiok as a wincon to use all the mana from Oblivion Sower?

[@NinjaScholar]

25:32 5 mana-Ashiok as a bait to resolve Fatal push lol. That just has to be wrong^^

[@Ninjamanhammer]

At 25 minutes when you bait out Stubborn Denial with the Ashiok to Push, the Stubborn was their only card, so you should have baited with Push instead, that way you could have resolved Ashiok and bounce exiled the Gingerbrute.

[@princequincy5421]

Imagine being on an adventure and a fucking Eldrazi bursts out of nowhere to process you.

[@gochadc]

Hey Seth A single Mass Manipulation would be awesome for yoinking the board after stealing the opponents lands. I don't think is the best card to add or anything but since is an against the odds deck it would've really funny.

[@foxokon94]

Honestly, this deck might have had a better record in a league. This deck looks like it has kind of an absurd combo matchup and that is the good decks in the format right now.

[@MTGGoldfish]

Having a bunch of main deck Ashiok, Dream Render is good against a lot of the top tier deck in the format.

[@IncrediPaulAZ]

Lol "Ashiok Tron." Love it!

[@curtiswilkins3290]

Cut lost legacy for unmoored ego. Hits any card. including land. Goes better with sower

[@DiogoVKersting]

Dang, that Nullifier was a 4 for 1 for 4 mana... the value

[@TheEvolver311]

I love how a Planeswalker being printed in a planeswalker deck is understood by the initiated as being unplayable

[@Zerschnitzler77]

some are fine in commander. they are designed to be worse since wizards does want pw decks to be for beginners

[@petrsevcik5044]

They're intended for beginners and specificaly to not be wanted by competitive players, so that's kind of their point - to be fun, but unplayable.

[@TheEvolver311]

@@petrsevcik5044 I didn't say they weren't did I? I said "I love it" as in its funny

[@petrsevcik5044]

@@TheEvolver311 What I meant is they're not "understood as being unplayable", they're specificaly designed and openly advertised as unplayable.

[@TheEvolver311]

@@petrsevcik5044 WotC doesn't market them as the worthless packs of cardboard they are that is stuff players learn after they are enfranchised into the game and looking into like Maro's statements etc...its like how when I started playing in the 90's and new players would always gravitate towards Shivan Dragons and Craw Wurms etc...I understand that they are not designed to be playable but that is information that players already invested into formats are given you don't pick up the pack and read the equivalent of "worthless if you wanna hop into playing Standard at your LGS" That was my point no shit they are designed to be not constructed playable etc... No shit I was saying that its funny that when enfranchised players people already invested into playing the game hear the words "Planeswalker deck" its synonymous with bad. So please understand I didn't say they are meant to be playable or any of that shit you wrote to make yourself feel good I know I've been playing since Ice Age you are not enlightening me ok it was just pointing out the humor in it

[@DAZEINNIT]

Hey man, with the ability given by oblivion sower, wouldn’t erebos’S intervention be a cool removal (Using it instead of agonising remorse). I love this deck profile! Please tell me your thoughts

[@donnmurdock3425]

Would a small white splash for kaya, orzhov usurper be doable in this deck?

[@adrienneladd8375]

Kaya Orzhov Usurper seems like it might be a good splash with Ashioks

[@MTGGoldfish]

Ashiok does fit the exile theme really well, that's for sure.

[@twoblueuntapped886]

Planeswalkers that qualify for planeswalker tribal: Domri Dovin Baan Elspeth Huatli (?) Karn Kaya (legacy) Kiora Nahiri (legacy) Ob Nixilis (legacy) Ral Saheeli (legacy) Sarkhan Sorin (unless we did it already) Teferi (legacy, but we'll get more in Core 21) Vivien

[@Ninjamanhammer]

I'm pretty sure he did Sorin. Think he went 5-0 that time.

[@faceoctopus4571]

28:43 Seth still isn't running Pioneer staple Legion's End smh

[@liamrockey3609]

Maybe even though it's Ashiok tribal. Go Esper for something like Kaya? Life gain + exile and the ultimate is GG in that deck

[@karfsma778]

Good ol' cletus

[@dcluvspie5777]

Why lost legacy over Unmoored ego it fits your colors and is strictly better hitting lands and artifacts as well.

[@endermeap6488]

Yea I was also wondering about that

[@craiggentile313]

Strictly better is wrong since a lot of decks are running mystical dispute even in the main thus lost legacy has its upsides by not being blue.

[@endermeap6488]

It’s still probably better though

[@MrJerichoPumpkin]

@@craiggentile313 you don't judge if it's strictly better based on responses available, but on the card alone, otherwise nothing is ever strictly better.

[@craiggentile313]

Magic is very much a contextual game where the cards opponents play do matter though. While I’m agreeing that unmoored is mostly better to say “strictly” better is wrong. Context matters and so does the meta. To ignore cards the opponents play is to set your deck building presses up for failure.

[@MrJerichoPumpkin]

26:42 but Seth, big Ashiok creates a chump blocker that mills, why would you bounce?

[@MTGGoldfish]

The tokens aren't great at blocking Gingerbrute though :)

[@shuttlecrossing1433]

Thank you for still making content on Magic Online. I honestly hate watching Arena content, it's just so much harder to appreciate from an intellectual standpoint. I don't mean to be negative. I really appreciate these videos!

[@MTGGoldfish]

I'm glad you enjoy it! I still love Modern and Pioneer, so MTGO isn't going away for me at this point.

[@the_snakelicious]

Unmoored Ego would be a straight upgrade over Lost Legacy.

[@MTGGoldfish]

Gotta be prepared for Persistent Petitioners.dek ;)

[@voidmaster6353]

Ashiok and Eldrazi. YAY ^///^ 💜

[@adamfiliatreault3393]

Is it just me that hears "Cletus" when Seth says Kalitas? You know what, it's now cannon - his name is Cletus

[@antoniosouza8832]

Why do you dont show the third game against monogreen?

[@outshimed]

What do you think of creeping tar pit?

[@Ninjamanhammer]

Not pioneer legal.

[@randomsocknr.3334]

Gotta love the thumbnail

[@5fwwfw]

Creature *exists* Seth : probably not a good match up for our deck. Hahaha

[@LandOfForeverSummer]

With all the mana, why no mind grind?

[@petrsevcik5044]

I would personaly go the more janky way of Thief of Sanity and Mnemonic Betrayal instead of the Eldrazi package, but this is probably the more competitive build.

[@MTGGoldfish]

Hmm, those could be interesting options. Thief of Sanity would be good on the mill plan and it does technically put one card in exile. Mnemonic Betrayal is spice, but it's a bit weird since we mostly exile cards rather than mill them, so I'm not sure how many cards the opponent will have in their graveyard.

[@Jonathan-qk5ed]

1-3 copies of Wasteland Strangler in the main board?

[@MTGGoldfish]

It really depends on the meta. With Sultai Delirium, Dimir Inveter and Lotus Breach being near the top of the meta, most of the best decks don't really have good targets for Wasteland Strangler. If you're playing against more aggro and midrange creature decks than it is very much worth inclusion in the main deck.

[@miraculeux2796]

Wohoooo awesome!!!

[@joshuajacobyap6222]

No Leyline of the Void?

[@antoniobush4560]

Confused about game 1 of the last round, it seem like seth had the match using thoughtseize bounce and a ton of tokens

[@anaphysik]

Opponent has a known Archangel Avacyn in hand.

[@MTGGoldfish]

Yeah, we knew the opponent had Archangel Avacyn to flash in since it came back from the graveyard with Den Protector so we had to beat the board plus another 4/4 flier that turn.

[@phelandiller4066]

More Reality Shifts to kill the animated citadels seems good.

[@BaygelTheDog]

at least in the sideboard

[@Ritokure]

Best part of playing Dimir on Pioneer is people so scared of Inverter, they side in all the hate as soon as they see your colors.

[@supremecourt4131]

Why no Kaya? -5 ability could straight kill an opponent

[@bolassnowman7429]

How much would the deck change if you played it in modern?

[@MTGGoldfish]

I don't think the Ashioks would change at all. I think we'd mostly get upgrades to the mana (fetches) and utility spells (Inquisition of Kozilek) and might want Wasteland Stranger in the main deck since there are a lot of small creature decks in Modern.

[@bolassnowman7429]

@@MTGGoldfish you all are crazy lol. Replying so fast. Very cool. Thank you

[@skylerhornagold4849]

Ashiok tribal.. omg YES!

[@colinjones5379]

"What is this janky bull$#!t?" -Sultai Delerium player, probably

[@Jehuty-fj2rv]

Where's thief of sanity

[@redstonepro5412]

If thief is your only creature it is even worse against removal

[@highmagia]

i audibly squealed when i saw the title

[@JacoIII]

This deck should have hedron crabs just to make those Oblivion Sowers extra crispy. EDIT: nvm I'm dumb

[@craiggentile313]

Those pioneer hedron crabs

[@JacoIII]

@@craiggentile313 haha good point. I shoulda paid attention to the format.

[@NoLessThanAGod]

That imperfection above and to the right of Seth's head is driving me nuts.

[@amoghganjikunta4299]

kaya in this deck

[@RyuBateson218]

I do believe Kaya and Ashiok are bff's.

[@energysshieldaura1619]

6:51

[@mcNopeFace]

if you play oblivion sower, at least play dread presence, urborg jank phyrexian scriptures lines up just perfect with a 5 mana walker -nightmare muses first 2 abilities are both mostly desperation mode, there are not many boardstates in which ob nixilis is worse of -Jace memory adept mills at least 20 cards on an underdeveloped board -Liliana Deaths majesty can reanimate ulamog or emrakul (no hardcasting 6-drops) Blacklance paragon (or mire triton) protect our walkers curse of the swine is more versatile than reality shift embodyment of agonies is at worst a deathtouch blocker, at best a 10/10 flying oath of liliana gives free blockers for our PWs

[@ShadowWasntHere8433]

4 Oblivion Sowers... Why? It's a winmore with 2 let alone 4

[@OGNoNameNobody]

Seth: [Shows *Thoughtsieze* ] Me: *Thumbs-Down Button Pressed*

[@pauljaton5128]

LOL

[@octolirious5035]

Where's syr Konrad? He's awesome in mill decks for counting creatures entering and leaving the graveyard

[@Atmapalazzo]

Most of Ashiok's mill is straight to exile. Syr Konrad has to have cards enter the graveyard or your cards leave the graveyard.

[@MTGGoldfish]

Yeah, unfortunately most Ashioks doesn't actually work with Syr Konrad :(

[@tiltilfing]

HAHAHAHA KALITAS!!!KALITAAS!! poor opponent

[@sethchapman1425]

You put in lost legacy but don't use it. I don't understand. It can get rid of things.

[@MTGGoldfish]

I think it's mostly helpful when there's something specific and game winning to get rid of (like Inverter of Truth against Dimir Inverter or Underworld Breach against Lotus Breach). Just using it to get rid of something is sort of meh in my opinion.

[@sethchapman1425]

@@MTGGoldfish fair enough but still thin it is handy

[@Ninjamanhammer]

@Seth Chapman Simply getting rid of whatever card from their deck is card disadvantage and doesn't really matter unless what you remove is very important to their game plan.

[@pauperjaymtg2920]

Laughs in dnd set

[@foxokon94]

I get souch a feel good from seeing mono green salt out. It's by far the least interesting archetype in magic.

[@timothy2c]

You can't be serious with that pronunciation of Kalitas....oh wait, its Seth.

[@daltonwakeup9537]

*plays 3 Ashiok * “ASHIOK TRIBAL BOYS” what a fucking neck beard

[@GoblinmasterYT]

No planeswalker deck ashiok? BOOOO

[@MTGGoldfish]

Traditionally we've excluded planeswalker deck planeswalkers from Planewalker Tribal (although they still show up on rare occasions).

[@gastastrophe1092]

lol what the heck is that thought distortion. Get this 6 mana discard outa there. Get another negate in there.

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303]

It absolutely destroys control, some builds of inverter and lotus breach

[@ToxicallyMasculinelol]

wtf is that stompy player doing conceding the entire match because you had 2 oblivion sowers lol. he didn't even need to concede the game, if he just drew some green creatures his yorvo would have outmatched them. and then conceding the match as if that's bound to happen again? wat

[@___ooobodybagooo___]

The flying ingest eldrazi would be nice. To add to the exile plan

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303]

It's too slow

[@___ooobodybagooo___]

I haven't watch yet but I hope ulamog nullifier gets a huge counter

[@MTGGoldfish]

I'm pretty sure we played on of the best Nullifiers of all time :)