Milling Shop Made Angle Plates on the Horizontal Boring Mill - Shop Built Tools

Perfection takes time. But 10 years was a little ridiculous. I made these for one job, and they worked. I planned on getting back to them, but now I have a job for them. So, it is time to finish them.
The Lucas 441B-48 Horizontal Boring Mill makes quick work of these with the 8" Face Mill. Even though I had some difficulties with vibration early on, I found a solution to overcome and get the job done right.
Topper Machine LLC is an entirely manual machine shop located in Spooner, WI. Our videos will highlight some of our shop work.
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[@CRUZER1800]

Hi Josh.... I am fairly new to your channel and one thing I have noticed is that I am seeing things I don't normally see on other channels which is very refreshing. I enjoy your inventive approach to challenging situations..... keeps it interesting to say the least. Keep up the great work... Russ

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Thank you. Every job has its challenges, if you can't overcome them you can't call yourself a machinist. I try to show all of these challenges in all their difficulty.

[@BrucePierson]

The angle plate was pretty accurate to start with, considering that it was welded together. What sort of a setup did you have when you made the plates to keep them in line for welding?

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I did that 10 years ago. I remember lots of short welds and tweaking. Maintaining interpass temps, slow cooling. It was a process for sure,but well worth it.

[@bostedtap8399]

Every job wants to sing Josh, tuning forks R Us. Built not bought. Thanks for sharing

[@Rubbernecker]

Great video! Saw your name pop up in the comments over on Inheritance, listed you as right up there with them, and Cutting Edge. A great compliment!!!

[@hersch_tool]

Boring mill is the best mill. Such a cool machine. You have the best toys, I mean tools, the best "tools"...

[@TopperMachineLLC]

It took me a long time to get these tools, and I have plans for some upgrades this year.

[@ericsandberg3167]

That Lucas mill is a beast of a machine, I love seeing this old iron still being used to this day and producing close tolerance parts.

[@DaveEtchells]

I love seeing these old, massive machines work. The precision seems amazing, given their size.

[@gusviera3905]

And a new "forever tool" is born. Nice. Thanks for letting us watch, Josh. Cheers.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

It's far from new, but it's now finished.... For now....

[@charleskutrufis9612]

This was a two-fer. I learn from you and your commenters. There are YEARS of experience commenting. Thank you for the videos.

[@duaneohall]

Another way to cut down on the vibration is to attach a heavy weight at one or more places along the 'spine' of the part. Your big Vevor lifting magnet would be a good candidate, I suspect. The idea is to change the resonant frequency of the top of the part so that the whole thing can't 'ring' sympathetically with the other parts. For small parts I have just used a vise-grip, experimenting with placement to get a spot that stops the resonance.

[@jetegtmeier71]

when it rings like a bell like that could you put a "C-clamp" on the web of your piece kind of replacing your hand to deadin the vibration, just something to change the harmonic of the piece ?? The other thought I had is using only half of your cutter vertically so your cutting force is downward into the table??

[@mikeking7470]

One of the things I noticed is that you employ all your senses when doing this kind of work, not just your eyes but also your ears and sense of touch. Others mentioned shot bags to kill vibration, I'll bet sand bags would dampen vibration, too. You should have some sand bags in you lighting kit, anyway. Thanks for another "boring" video.

[@funone8716]

Mrs Topper sighting at 15:26. Not often a small shop gets to machine on the boring mill at such a high altitude off the table. Cool.

[@anxietyislandllc]

First time I've seen the Mrs. 😊

[@aaronfritz7234]

I have seen guys pull all but one insert making a sort of fly cutter. Takes longer but cuts out the vibration and leaves an amazing surface finish. It’s one of those things sometimes it works great and sometimes it doesn’t.

[@kristyskirt9015]

Good afternoon Mr. Topper; now that’s how u make a precession Angle plate iron. Get used to making similar items And Do Not Sell your very fine “Starrett Tools “. The company has been bought out by a bunch of investors, Yikes. 😳

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I saw that recently. RIP L.S. Starrett

[@RuthlessMindset68]

Hi Josh. Just a thought. If you had set both angle plates up beside each other. You could’ve used 2 squeeze clamps, one in spreader config to help eliminate chatter. Possibly also use the giant lead solder wire trick wrapped around the end mill arbor to change harmonics. Plus if you attached some stock in the slots, you could cut both plates together and they’d be indexed.

[@bobjones6242]

Just curious, Did the face get deburred before flipping over and put against the key stock?

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Yes it did

[@gofastwclass]

Josh, your videos have gotten a little... boring lately. Ha Thanks for sharing another job and a creative solution to a problem. Cool stuff!

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Lol, yup lots of boring mill work to do lately.

[@kurtswanson3528]

Hi Josh, Not new to your channel but just subscribed. I worked at a company that built welding systems that could be quite large. We had 3 boring mills all from the 40's to early 60's The largest was a Carlton that was 4' in the ground and you rode a seat attached the the spindle. I ran a G+L that after releveling required remilling the knees. They were 5' tall and 4' deep of cast iron. I started by setting them with the long leg on the table with the short legs face to face, shimming and clamping as necessary. than machined the 2 edge faces together. Then I had a good flat surface to clamp to and machined the long legs horizontally on the table. Stood them side by side, clamped them together and milled the short legs together. No Singin! Keep up the good work!

[@fredhoyt6900]

Just a suggestion, Add shim stock as needed under the bolted down surface at setup, to halve the stock removal and lessen the spring in the weldment? Cutting down against the table was for sure the way to go.

[@BruceBoschek]

Very nice job and excellent surface finish. Good that you did the bottom, too. It's too much setup for a compromise. Thanks for another fine video.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

They came out beautiful and worked better than expected

[@SegoMan]

10:48 You needed some diagonal bracing from the top to the sides.. 12:12 Told you so LoL

[@bcbloc02]

The length to width was quite a bit on those. A cheat I have learned from my set I use on my small bore bar is to drill and tap the tops on the back side and tie your two angles together at distance say a foot a part or so. That allows it to operate like a box and makes it much stiffer thus eliminating chatter. 😊

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Thanks Brian. Great idea.

[@seantap1415]

Hang 2 big pipe wrenches 1 off each side of the rib in the back. I've had good luck doing that in the past. also, a single-point fly cutter might work better..... Cheers I love the vids

[@The_DuMont_Network]

Just wondering... Would diagonal supports from the top to a T Slot (side to side, left to right) have been sufficient to stop the vibrations?

[@kappullen]

You can make yourself some pipe jacks for stiffness in your setups. Get some pipe and threaded rod that will fit in it nicely. Heat and flatten one end of the pipes. Saw a vee notch in it. Saw your all thread down the center a couple of inches. Heat the slotted ends and bend them out like a Y shape. Square up the pipes and weld a washer on the flat ends. You can then clamp a block on the table and a heavy duty c clamp on the web. Put your pipe jacks between the block and c clamp on both sides and have good easy diagomal supports for a variety of job situations. A variety of pipe lengths is handy to have.

[@wendell454]

The ones I made for my mill I used 1" x 8" bar and my gussets were out of 1" when machine them square I could take .125 per cut with out chater

[@edwardvan5808]

Yes, use the other angle plate to firm up the setup. How many times have you all done a finish cut, it's on size, everything is cool, and it chatters on you and woodpeckers up the surface? And on an expensive part like the angle plates. And the customer wants it today. Us machinists have to be greedy when it comes to rigid set ups.

[@urbanawoodproject3123]

Surprised you didn't mill the edges after doing the first face. The rough edges used as a reference against your blocks almost certainly introduced some twist. Or were those already machine previously?

[@jakedoom8807]

Bracing, get some allthread and couplers and tack a couple jack points in place at those extremes. Should still leave plenty of reach even running 2 pieces up to that big ear hanging out there to get your clamps in positions on the part. A couple ream holes near the bottom after you brought it all square (prefereably a half thou under your slot width and dowel pins to match) would make throwing these on and off the table any time a breeze. I was glad to see you finally use te other angle block as some bracing, but remember, the stiffer you can get setup before you slap that part up there, the happier she will be.

[@garymucher4082]

I was thinking if you added weight on the V portion you would dampen the vibration. You handled that with the other bracket...

[@ypaulbrown]

Hey Josh, I was wondering before you put the 2nd angle on to reduce vibration/chatter, if you might also clamp some heavy blocks to the gusset on the angle being milled to help reduce vibration.....????...... I was also thinking about using the 2nd angle clamped to the table right before you clamped it....but putting it parallel to the 1st with some sort of jack between the two to put pressure toward the face mill..... any opinions on that ?..... a lot fewer chips in your arm pits from clamping than holding onto the angle anyway........ well done.....Paul

[@jackwillson8099]

You should have clamped aluim or wood too get rid of Is vibration,Ran a horizontal boring mill 7 years , I have run & set up job way too big for the machine but got it done,also lot of line boring for metal Fabricated gear boxes big ones size of a Toyota car lol

[@lrakschmidt2880]

I would have attached magnetic vices to the web for damping. Clamp any and every thing to the web..

[@randytravis3998]

when they would turn brake drums they had a strap they would put around the outside of the drum to knock down the noise .. I was thinking take a 2x4 board clamp it to the angle brace on both sides ,, the boards should knock down a lot of the noise if not all the noise ..

[@usaerospace6707]

The Horizontal Boring Mill is a useful machine. Do they even make them anymore.

[@TheUncleRuckus]

Nothing to say just an obligatory algorithm boost for the channel. 👍👍

[@kooldoozer]

Love the rapids on that machine. On mine, you have to shift 4 levers. --Doozer

[@MrArtVendelay]

You are one with the machine, Josh. I am no machinist but would this not be better laying on its side and being milled horizontally?

[@kevinmountford4541]

Any reason you did not rough it on its side? You could clock the base using the spindle to adjust to true then clamp the heck out of it.

[@strykerjones8842]

This may be a silly question, but did you not have enough travel to lay the part down on its side and do a horizontal cut?

[@Rez441]

After watching both Max Grant's video about machining angle plates and this one, I've learned a lot. I might never have to use this knowledge as a lathe guy, but never say never 😅

[@jayladwig2160]

There are times you can or would need to use angle plates on a lathe, if you have a carriage with "T" slots. And you can do a lot of milling operations by using a cutter heard in the lathe and the cross slide or carriage to move the work.

[@ThePottingShedWorkshop]

There are no machines in my workshop where I need a long handled broom to clear the chips and have to clamber on the machine to set things up!😁 Nice job, and a beautiful finish!

[@d1stroh]

To change the harmonic resonance try welding the two together and then machine them.

[@georgetarabini6552]

Fun to watch someone who knows what he’s doing, good job

[@Freetheworldnow]

Hi Josh. Another great video the way we like it! Question: Why did you mill them in the vertical position? Is it because of insufficient table travel? Thanks for sharing. God Bless. WWG1WGA.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I considered laying them down, but I couldn't be 100% certain of its accuracy. I could indicate the angle plates on the table and set the base up to that, but clamping these directly to the table and using the column was guaranteed to be square. Also, it would not have looked as impressive.

[@DAKOTANSHELBY]

Great video. That Lucas boring mill is a monster of a machine. On the level of Brian Bloc's in Kentucky. Would love to see content of how a machine of that size is relocated by riggers. What is the highest 3 phase HP rating of that Lucas? Thank you Josh!

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I moved this alone. 37,500 lbs. Super easy, just need the right tools and patience. Plan every maneuver. It's a 20HP machine.

[@mongoose388]

Was that a Mrs. Topper sighting? She was probably wnting to know when you're going to start building that giant vice. ;

[@TopperMachineLLC]

It was, but no worry about a dumb vise. I have bigger fish to fry. Stay tuned.

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

That took some experimentation, but it turned out very well. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.

[@Paul-jb7br]

Nice work and video. Did you consider running an end mill down the ridge of the base plate to ensure the edge is vertical? You may have taken care of that when you made the angle plate originally. Again great job

[@Paul-jb7br]

I meant edge.

[@Warren-x3e]

On another video you were using a spade bit reamer. Where would I be able obtain them? TY I enjoy your work.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

If you are referring to the spade drills that I use for deep drilling, they can be purchased from any good tooling supplier. AMEC is the MFG of them.

[@wendell454]

But my gussets went all the way to the top

[@jackdawg4579]

very interesting project! So where do you keep a set of massive angle plates like that between jobs!

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Hiding in the same corner they were the last 10 years.

[@kendion4597]

Why didnt u lay it down and face it, wouldn't it have been more ridged than up Wright???

[@TopperMachineLLC]

you must not understand how a Horizontal Boring Mill works.

[@wrstew1272]

A thought- a 4x6 or 6x8 between the angles might further the vibration dampening. As you know far better than I, rigidity is essential in machining, and the opposed “square “ helped a lot. But metal transfers the vibrations of the inserts making contact with the edges of the plate, and wood should dampen the vibration rather than pass it along. Easy, and you probably have some shipping dunnage laying around the shop. I’ll bet you a coffee it really will improve the process and possibly help in future projects to increase feed rate and improve surface finish. What ya tink? 😂

[@ianloy1854]

I love to see sizeable machining, and manual machines being used for jobs they should be doing. Perhaps a change in the machining order would give an even more aligned outcome. 1/ Machine the slotted face edge that goes against the table stops - so that it is machined reference. 2/ Machine the slotted face. 3/ Machine the last face. So it is machined the way it will be used and so will be as square as possible. There are basically four ways of removing vibration. Weight (e.g. lead) which lowers the resonant frequency (vibration point). Can be on the tool support or workpiece depending on what is vibrating. Stiffness of the workpiece (e.g. side support) which raises the resonant frequency. This could also be changes to the part (add ribs/welds etc) Change the frequency that the cutting induces. Changing the spindle speed as Josh did or changing the number of teeth (e.g. different cutter, removal of every second tip, all but one tip) Change the forces the cutting induces Changing the feed, depth of cut or both (as Josh does) The use of additional weight (lead strip and lead shot bags). The spindle on this machine is so stiff no change would occur even if lead strip was wound around it. That is the vibration was the workpiece moving, not the spindle moved. Adding mass to the angle plate would work, but the amount needed would be high and the method of mounting would be difficult and need to be added. As Josh showed very little needed to be done to remove the vibration and it was only occurring in one direction and was the workpiece moving, so the use of a side support was simple to do and had the desired effect.

[@NICK-uy3nl]

How about laying the piece on its side and milling it that way, you could clamp it much better to stop any chatter

[@TopperMachineLLC]

But it wouldn't be as fun to watch.

[@lerkzor]

Hi Josh I watched a guy turn some rotors and drums for automotive brakes, and he used a rubber strap to prevent the part singing while it was being machined. I wonder if you had clamped a piece of rubber to the web if that would have been enough to dampen the resonance? Anyway, you found a method that worked, which is all that really matters. Thanks for sharing this with us!

[@RossMarsden]

To reduce vibration and chatter in that situation, I suggest you add mass on that triangle gusset, and clamp it there with rubber or similar between the clamp and your plate. This adds mass AND damping. The added mass changes the resonant frequency, and the damper suppresses vibrations if they are generated. This is what the shocks do in your vehicle suspension. What you did there was to increase rigidity which also changes the resonant frequency. Good work. I like your approach to problems and the way you find solutions.

[@greeceuranusputin]

Just clamp a hunk of metal where you were putting your hand. That would change the natural frequency of you part and change the amount of vibration. You can also fab a damper on the spot by using some compliant material attached to the web (that's what you were doing with your hand). Bracing the part risks changing the shape and that will show up in the end product.

[@MotoRestoFL]

See I was thinking at your initial setup to put both plates facing the cutter and simple jack between them at the top. That way you can face mill them both in the same setup. I ran a Bullard about that size as the Lucas back when I was 19-20 and vaguely recall doing something similar.

[@donteeple6124]

Morning Josh, Resonance harmonics caused from machining is always hard to overcome. Your approach to solving it in this particular project is innovative and educational. The camera work clearly explains what you did, why you did it and the outcomes of each attempt to remedy the problems encountered. The mark of a true master machinist. I have a little sign posted in my shop of an acronym that reminds me of things and helps when I face situations such as this. The sign simply says....SMEAC.....S= what is the situation, M=mission what am I trying to accomplish, E= execution, how and with what assets am I going to fix it, A=administration, how am I going to actually get it done, and C= command and control, how am I going make sure things are done the best i can do and in what order. Our dreaded snowstorm was a bust thank goodness, the bulk missed us and slammed Vermont instead, they got 15-24 inches. Only 4-6 inches here and cold temps following have ensured light fluffy stuff which will soon melt away as the temps soar into the 50s this week....your magical snow-blower has done its job again !!! Keep up the good work and if no one has said it, THANKS for bringing us along on the ride. Don

[@ypaulbrown]

21:10, amazing how much weld heat can cause such distortion, I fight everyday with it, especially with stainless weldments....... unfortunately, my weldments are 2.5 x 4 x 7 feet sometimes.... and my shop is only 1,500 sq feet, so no post machining for me..... glad you decided to mill the other side.......now to get a Big Donkey size lapping stone and use some Armstrong Power to really tweak those babies out......PB

[@williamchapman2607]

How about bolting (or somehow attaching) a mass of of metal to the upper part of the gusset plate. That'll damp the vibrations.

[@michaelweatherhead9470]

Thanks for the video Josh great job figuring it out nicely done ❤❤. Take care of yourself and family and friends and be Blessed ❤️.

[@kennyrmurray]

That’s awesome! I have to make a 12X12 at least so I can mount my big rotary table on my Bridgeport

[@mallyuk1]

Nice job Josh plenty of thinking time while machine running, But why you not have ear defenders on i have bad Tinnitus be good idea to wear them ear plugs arnt the same noise still gets in around the ear not just in the ear hole, Love your channel

[@carlbyington5185]

EXTREEMLY smart idea to angle the angle to the angle !!

[@ypaulbrown]

that angle to the dangle is directly proportionate to the mass of the angle and the heat of the face mill.... or something like that....

[@ypaulbrown]

Greetings Josh, wishing you a wonderful Easter Weekend, looks like a great episode, love the boring mill and the radial drill when you are using.......best wishes from Florida, Paul......

[@edsmachine93]

Good job Josh. I really like watching the Boring Mill Action. What a versatile machine. The angle plate came out nice. Glad that you decided to do the bottom of the angle plate. Nice precision square. I hope you and your family has a Happy Easter Sunday.

[@williamchapman2607]

I made my comment before you came up with a much better solution.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

It happens all the time.

[@procyonia3654]

Never noticed this before, Josh is that a spindle bar clamp on the nose of the spindle? My 41 is abit Older than yours (probably 15 years) but it clamps differently then that, that's really cool. Or is that a shop made dealio?

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Yes,it's the factory spindle nose with clamp. It will accept the boring and facing head as well. Something I wish I had.

[@procyonia3654]

Wow they really made some improvements from the early 41s then. On mine (1943 vintage) you have a clamping lever at the rear similar to a GL hbm And instead of the electronic control like yours for feed/rapid there's a clutch lever and a reversing switch for directions.

[@georgekennedy2496]

Have they been stressed relieved if not it’s a waste of time , they will move .

[@TopperMachineLLC]

yes

[@fpoastro]

Couple chain binders or even ratchet straps down on the diagonal would likely have stiffend that up

[@chuck1352]

saw the wife twice

[@ttargetss]

Could you have milled that half the face at a time so the force was going straight down into the table instead of sideways (which was making it sing)? Then a full face finishing pass at the end? Not criticizing, just asking to learn

[@TopperMachineLLC]

It would have vibrated no matter what I tried. Support is the only cure.

[@ttargetss]

​@@TopperMachineLLC Thank you! I appreciate the reinforcement of the mantra "rigidity, rigidity, rigidity"

[@jonedmonds1681]

I thought the idea of wood wedges between the 2 angle plates would have helped dampen the chatter. I’ve also seen an inner tube pulling an oak beam into the back of the workpiece as a damper.

[@fricknjeep]

hi there very interesting, best to all john

[@russellwall1964]

Another job done right the first time! It was nice to see your line of thinking as you worked through the job. Thanks for sharing!

[@alanm3438]

Never less than interesting. Good to see you first thing in the morning. Good job on the project and the video!!!!!!!!!!

[@Сергей_Иванович]

Hello. Question. The transverse travel of the table was not enough to process this part in a lying position? This position would eliminate vibrations.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I chose vertical for ease of setup and the theatrics. It would be boring otherwise.

[@Сергей_Иванович]

It's clear. Good luck. I like your channel.@@TopperMachineLLC

[@ericgarrett7875]

Nice job Josh…. Enjoy watching your videos!

[@jakebronger3568]

10 mins in, why dont you get a 4x2 cut a notch in it set over the web and hold it down with your hand?

[@michaelwooda9444]

I would have tried milling all 4 corners only.then laid the part horizontally on the table,indicate it in. That way the edge would be solid all the way.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

But that would not have been as much fun.

[@michaelwooda9444]

@@TopperMachineLLC it is all about fun! And trying to do a job with the idea you had to full completion.

[@dirtfarmer7472]

I asked you a day or 2 ago how old is your machine, I’ve never around a machine with a horizontal head. It sure looks funny to me

[@TopperMachineLLC]

1963, Horizontal Boring Mills are very common in large shops.

[@dirtfarmer7472]

@@TopperMachineLLC Thank you Sir, 1963, that’s 60+ years, it’s got to be a good 1 to still be working & holding everything straight & true

[@kd5byb]

Really enjoy the Lucas Boring Mill. Such a neat machine!

[@ejharrop1416]

Used to put sand bags or lead around vibrating parts. Sometimes that helps

[@grahamcifuentes4451]

I love the sound that big mill makes raising the z axis! I almost believe you stole a horn from one of those trains in your other life, and mounted it on the mill!

[@carldaniel6510]

Love that Lucas boring mill! Great video!

[@nobuckle40]

This never gets old. I just wish I could get back into the shop and put my hands on those handles again. Thanks Josh.

[@roylucas1027]

Interesting video. Vertical boring mill is a thing of beauty.

[@jimsvideos7201]

Couple hours well-spent, I think.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

It was.

[@zpoppe]

Put sand in a car inner tube and hang it on your work, old shop trick

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Great suggestion. Thanks

[@swanvalleymachineshop]

Always a challenge ! 👍

[@rexmyers991]

Another great project. Thanks, Josh.

[@number2664]

Good job on adding the second angle plate for stiffening. It really doesn’t take much to snuff out vibration in my experience, just very careful placement of struts or supports. I was thinking it’s a pity that horizontal doesn’t have a rotary table otherwise you could do it laying down, that type of mill is not common here in Australia, we normally have the rotary table type borer with a facing head built in.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I don't have the Lucas rotary table, but do have a big(24 or 30",not sure which) rotary table I can use. Just haven't had a real need for it yet.

[@jamesriordan3494]

🙌

[@davidrichards5594]

pretty neat....Dave

[@ellieprice363]

Thanks for another interesting milling video. My black “Topper Machine” T shirt came a a couple of weeks ago. It’s my way of supporting your great channel. You’re doing work here that I haven’t seen anywhere else.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Thank you for your support. I try to film only my interesting stuff. Although I don't do a lot of boring stuff regularly.

[@lapoint7603]

Another great video. I like your problem-solving techniques and how you don't give up easily. I enjoyed the cameo appearance at 15:28. I hope you're enjoying some sunshine and warmth over this easter holiday.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Thank you very much!