Milwaukee 8 Possibly Harley's Last All New Air Cooled Engine

[@GixxerFoo]

How much longer do you see Harley-Davidson producing air cooled big twin engines?

[@brenthill3241]

As long as regulations allow.

[@dylanharris6847]

Not much longer I don’t think. 🤷🏻‍♂️ go with the times I guess

[@deangullberry5148]

@@508knucklehead It'll take longer than that to get an infrastructure to support all electric.

[@deangullberry5148]

My guess is that the Revo will make it's way into pretty much everything, with the Softail being the last hold out. It'll be the "classic" line that stays air-cooled until emissions standards force them to change it over.

[@carlbruhn1772]

It's all but over. Government mandates have killed them. Want a bad ass air cooled Harley, but a used one and build it.

[@marvelharris9540]

I hope that s&s will keep making their twin cam and evo replacement motors for those of us interested in building our own or retrofitting old frames.

[@GixxerFoo]

I feel they have more leniency as a after market company and as long as the "off road use" label flys they will be able to.

[@kiwidadygirl]

You can still buy factory Evos from Harley.

[@aaronbrooks7106]

I don’t think you can buy a evo anymore, I asked at the dealer for my fxr and they said no.

[@rgh622]

Well, looks like my air-cooled and my carbureted bikes will continue to demand a higher price even as I ride them...

[@dontworrybehappy8080]

Right!? They'll appreciate in value. I like your thinking.

[@offshore4848]

I've got a small stash, a 35 vld, a 45wl, a 1953 165st and my 74 flh. My wife knows the value ! Just waiting on that knuck to drop out of the sky

[@dingznthingz]

If an air cooled, carbureted bike breaks down alongside the road, it can be fixed on the spot. My brother fixed helicopters in Vietnam during the war. He said when the Hueys went down, they ran out and fixed them on the spot and flew them back. You can't do that with Blackhawks and Apaches. F.Y.I. How long will it be before some liberal dipshit throws a fit about naming military helicopter after Native American tribes? I am part Cherokee. It doesn't bother me that my Jeep is named a Grand Cherokee.

[@samuelmontgomery3882]

I believe the M8 is the last new air cooled engine they will ever build. They will make up grades, add ons, and accessories then sell them as long as they can. Or the law allows. My opinion.

[@kennethwise7108]

I recently learned that the VROD engine was killed due to non compliance with EPA emissions. That engine was sooo good, crazy how it never saw anything other than a VROD.

[@chrissmith7669]

I can’t see the original revolution falling foul to emissions. I’d more believe it was doomed by idiotic marketing of their best engine till then for drag racing only.

[@phili-_-eagles9243]

Lol y could get road glide kits for the vrods tho

[@kennethwise7108]

@@phili-_-eagles9243 ive seen them before, really bitchin!

[@phili-_-eagles9243]

@@kennethwise7108 each idk man hittin a on Ramp at 95mph comfortablely really isnt safe lmaooo

[@kennethwise7108]

@@phili-_-eagles9243 i think thatd be a good idea. Make a sporty Road Glide

[@bolexmadnessbygilbertsolor6953]

At a local San Antonio HD dealer just recently, I asked one of the sales staff about the new bikes. I asked if the dealer was on board with the PanAm and the new Sportster, and the direction HD was taking. He told me everyone at the dealership was excited with the new offerings. The PanAm, for instance, was selling before the bikes were off the truck, and bikes allotted were all sold. And new customers that wouldn’t have considered an HD offering are coming to the dealership. The Sportster S was also getting attention, he said, with constant calls for test rides and actual bikes. Plus the service dept was getting lots of training to service the new bikes. In short, there’s lots of excitement, even much of HD’s customer base is slowly coming around. Of course, there’s hard core riders who grouse that “it ain’t a real Harley”, whatever that is. Like Gixx sez, there’s plenty of used machines and parts to keep this group happy for many years to come. So yeah, HD has to embrace liquid cooling to survive, it is inevitable. I venture the M8 is the swan song for the aircooled mill. It was a good run, but time has run out.

[@xnihilo1044]

I had the feeling that when I bought my '20 Electra Glide it will be the last of the traditional air-cooled big twins. I still miss the Evo.

[@Frank-mt4qf]

Hey. Gixxer. I just checked my 2007 fat boy cam chain tensioner pads. I was so happy the pads looked great barely any wear. 50,000 miles. I am ready for another 50,000 Amazing. Was so scared with all the horror stories of pre 2007. Good to go Thanks man

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

When I got my Sportster it was a year-and-a-half-old and now I've had my Sportster 20 plus years, I'm happy with it as it is the Evo engine for big twins as well as for sportsters will go down as Harley's best motor barr-nunn!!

[@browngreen933]

Great discussion but one small addition. Evolution engine was merely a stopgap solution until NOVA came online. But Evo was such a big hit that NOVA was canceled. Now we're back in a similar situation all these years later.

[@GixxerFoo]

It's a shame that Nova never made it to market with a two pronged effort. It's crazy were witnessing the same thing happening right now, but with that new CEO I think he's going to get the ship turned in the right direction.

[@browngreen933]

@@GixxerFoo Yes, it's deja vu Nova vs Evolution all over again. But this time Neo-Nova has EPA on its side. Personally, after years of hating on water cooled motorcycles, I've come to accept. Especially for smaller displacement bikes which I wish Harley-Davidson would make a pleasing line of for old guys and beginners. (Please don't say Street.)

[@Bradtadabone]

Very true and not a lot of people know about nova!

[@Chase_N]

I have a Twin Cam 103, no matter what tune I used it'd run hot. After researching air cooled motors & talking with a dyno tuner I know, I found that they run best @ 11.5:1 to 12:1 AFR. So I wrote my own map. My fuel tables run from a 12:1 to 11.7:1 AFR. My Dyna runs better than it ever has, but I lost a lot of mpg- from 45 to 36-37. A big bore (1600+) RevMax with more HP/TQ, that runs cool & gets better mpg honestly sounds pretty good to me.

[@GixxerFoo]

Damn you got some fuel going into that bike! Big brother is gonna be following you with a satellite 😄. I bet it runs pretty good actually getting some fuel though!

[@ganuvien]

Just don't tune the revmax, if it runs lean from factory like any new efi bike a tune will open it up at the cost of some mpg.

[@harryhowell5644]

I think you nailed it. These may be the last of the big twin air cooled bikes.

[@mattcottrell3336]

Best video yet. They will go liquid cooled on overhead valve engines in the future in my opinion. I think they've already kind of hinted at it with the Milwaukee 8 engine in the twin cooling on the Milwaukee 8. Main reason being that the only way that they could go to a larger engine in general and still meet EPA requirement would be to add liquid cooling. If they made a liquid cooled big twin with that kind of power I personally would be all in favor of buying one as long as it was mechanically sound.

[@GixxerFoo]

Totally agree, I think we are seeing a shift right now with the new Revolution Max. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't come out with a new liquid cooled big twin like the challenger.

[@raderjohnson3890]

The new BMW R18 is a giant air cooled motor. Must be a market left… Lots of us young guys like old school simple stuff. I think regulation would be the only thing that could kill these engines. People love ‘em.

[@Mike-jv8bv]

Engineers will always find a way. I think the biggest enemy for fun is the unelected tyrants in the EPA. These are motorcycles for crying out loud, not cars. They try to justify their existence by making up rules as they go.

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

The vr1000 Harley-Davidson racer only lasted One race all the other races they dnf due to Major engine issues. You could compete with that bike with an old Flathead Harley that would last the whole season of racing not just one race. The old Harley-Davidsons were built to be tough as nails.

[@ozziejim8472]

I see an electric V twin ! Seriously, I love the way Harley runs engines for years , ironing out potential problems and improving on them. ….. I’ve said it before, love my evo! Cheers dude🍺

[@GixxerFoo]

Couldn't agree more! Hang onto that Evo!

[@fixerny]

If Harley could figure out how to increase the impact and efficiency of oil cooling, coupled with a further reduction in mechanical noise from the drivetrain - it would buy them more time. As it stands now however, it’s inevitable that all HD’s are going to be liquid cooled in the future.

[@snakebite6511]

Personally i cant wait to get a liquid cooled engine in a new Street Glide. I have 3 Harley's now and love all 3 of them, but id be open to a larger Revo Max in a new Street Glide

[@richporak]

The M8 will be the last air cooled engine for sure. The next engine will be a 45 degree (to keep the sound) and be under square for torque but of course liquid cooled.

[@divine_swine9665]

EDIT: I swear I paused the video and wrote this reply when you asked us what we thought would happen! I basically said everything you said! So… I agree with ya FooMan! Lol This is a long one…. But here goes…. Regulations will force them to go liquid cooled in the style of the new Revolution Motor. Hell, I’m even willing to put money on the line that they (“they” being the suits in charge) will offer the revolution engine instead of the M8 in more models…. A touring bike with the Revolution to start then a softail with one. Having said all of that, don’t think for a second that the guys in charge don’t know WHAT sells H-D’s. They’re not idiots. They know 95% of their customers want a pushrod v-twin. I think… or rather, I HOPE they figure out a way to keep the 95% base happy while simultaneously meeting regulations. until the Motor Co. is ran by another engineer (eg; Willie G) and not a bean counter, they will move in the wrong direction (and I don’t see this happening btw). It’s not a fluke that when companies are under the control of an engineer they really start to innovate. Look at GM, Ford, AMD, and now Intel… Take GM and Ford durning the bean counting years, their cars SUCKED. With an engineer steering the ship, their cars looked good and they came out with a Corvette that costs < 75k and it COMPETES with the super cars! Also, Ford’s GT won the Le Mans. H-D is seriously lacking leadership and vision right now. I hope they figure it out soon tho

[@GixxerFoo]

You're right Harley isn't dumb and they know what sells bikes. It really looks like the new CEO is getting it in the right direction, if what they say is true (and been showing) the CEO is out personally testing the new bikes. I have to admit I was really impressed with these two new bikes they came out with, it really seems like they got it right out of the gate.

[@twocupstwodrams7535]

I've had 18 Harley-Davidsons and recently purchased a new Softail Slim thinking, this is the last air cooled Vtwin.

[@GixxerFoo]

It quite possibly might be, I am hard pressed to see further development beyond the M8.

[@Azzow15]

I love the Air cooled bikes. If they go air cooled I'll just go to another water cooled brand which is much cheaper.

[@rollandklontz]

As epa standards become more stringent, yes Harley will be moving away from air cooled engines. Probably sooner than later and I fully expect them to release a water cooled big twin within the next 3-5 years if not sooner

[@GixxerFoo]

I kinda wonder if a monster displacement liquid cooled motor is in the future. Indian really fired the first shot with that Challenger.

[@rollandklontz]

@@GixxerFoo If they are smart they will slowly phase it in as to not completely shock the old school crowd. Then as people buy more and more of the monster water cooled vtwins they can stop the production of the air cooled or keep it as a limited run for die hards.

[@doctazee7545]

@@rollandklontz Their best bet will be to introduce a whole new bagger model that is running a liquid cooled engine. They probably could just jam one in one of the current touring models as an option, but I think a whole new model with some distinct styling would be the ticket.

[@Bradtadabone]

I’m actually looking forward to the water cooler big twins. Keep the HD sound but make them cooler look at all the success Indian is having with older and younger riders

[@GixxerFoo]

I have to admit Indian is killing it right now with the younger crowd.

[@Spaceman_Spiff_74]

I briefly had a 2012 fxdb and although it was a good enough bike, I always thought the size of the motor and the lack of idle adjustability on the efi was not great for someone who isn’t always on the highway. Even in CA where it’s normal to split lanes, that bike ran hotter than anything I’ve ever ridden. IMO I think a 74” or 80” is really the perfect size for these types of bikes. Plenty of stuff can be done to give em a lil more oommff, but no matter what, these 45deg v twin w a separate tranny is always gonna be a tractor. The fact that these are now “modern” ppl expect em to be better and more performance oriented... but as I said... tractor. That’s why choppers are so fun because no one expects anything out of an air cooled rigid frame bike that’s old enough for to collect social security, and yet they still git down the road just fine and are rebuildable and reliable bikes if you take care of em properly.

[@GixxerFoo]

I have agree people tend to get too high of expectations for the 45 degree twin, lol it's a stump pulling tractor motor. They are fun bikes and while you can get some power out of them they aren't gonna be a 4 cylinder superbike lol.

[@chopperchopster]

thats why I love my old pans shovels and ironheads.

[@usmcvet0313]

I just put a DK customs XL-VIED plug in on my bike, and it really cooled it down. I also ran an external breather. At $140 it's less than a third of the price of a tuner, and is all you need for opening up the exhaust and intake. The air cooled engines running hot is the fault of the epa, not the design.

[@veryinterested2382]

That's funny, I never understood why people liked the HD sound. I spent many summers bailing hay and and working fields around 2 cylinder John Deere tractors. When I here a Harley I think, farm equipment and plenty of sweat. I love JD tractors but I don't want to spend my weekends riding around on something that reminds me bailing hay.

[@chopperchopster]

@@veryinterested2382 if you ride a classic. Say a panhead you think right away . 2 wheel tractor. However it's got a certain something. I love my old bikes.

[@nevillegreg1]

You are spot on, continuing tighter EU regulations will kill the M8. Just the same, I prefer liquid cooled engines every day of the week - much smoother and better power delivery. I noticed that HD de-tuned the Sportster S motor (compared with the PanA). Clearly, to me, designed to rip-off customers (and line Motor Coy pockets) by pushing customers to SE in order to get back that increased performance. Just a disgrace. I say to the Motor Coy, bring on the Revolution Max motor to the Softail line-up (with PanA HP and all the same tech). Sales will go through the roof.

[@scottarmstrong1172]

The writing is on the wall my friend. Air cooled engines are being regulated out of existence. I believe the M8 will be the last. Like you said, plenty of used ones out there.

[@chrissmith7669]

I’m curious about what will eventually replace the M8. A Longer stroke revolution for the big touring machines?

[@scottarmstrong1172]

@@chrissmith7669 That seems likely.

[@chrissmith7669]

@@scottarmstrong1172 until then an M8 stage IV with 140hp & 140 ftlb of torque will have to do. Lol.

[@2ndchancetrucker874]

I can definitely see them switching the big touring bikes next. The soft tails will stay as is until they're force to change them

[@DynamicVlogs69]

They'll keep at least one around for a while. But I'm glad to see they are finally getting water cooled engines. I'm sick of having a 260 degree engine under me in 90 degree weather. It's like harleys are made only for the northern states and riding below 70 degrees.

[@GixxerFoo]

I am happy they are too, not only that they are quite impressive. Even on tje water cooled modern design twin they still put power down pretty low.

[@mattcottrell3336]

There's still a lot of people even in a younger generation that when they get into bikes like the classic look of a late 40s early 50s era bobber or cruiser. As long as that is a market for Harley considering the history and that they are the go-to brand for Americans looking for nice motorcycles I feel like these new motorcycles are meant to encourage younger people who may not want to buy a Harley-Davidson to buy one. As long as there is a demand for cool looking old school motorcycles I would think Harley would go to twin cooling in their full line first. They could meet emissions standards and still stick with their original engine. I do think the Harley-Davidson will probably go to all liquid-cooled engines eventually. But I really feel like they know it would be the end of the company if they went away from pushrod engines with the cooling fin jugs....just my two cents....

[@GixxerFoo]

For sure Harley wouldn't make it if they went all liquid cooled and got away from their core motorcycles entirely. They could go liquid cooled but they'd have to keep it like the metric cruisers and keep the air cooled look.

[@jodyhodge2129]

O would rather see a liquid cooled Harley rather than no Harley. Never had a problem with my liquid cooled metric bikes and never got concerned when the interstate came to a complete stop.

[@leonardstanford1877]

Everyone who rides & tours on baggers should prey to the Harley gods that they do build a liquid cooled bike ! It would do everything better than a air cooled bike . As for 4 valve motors it's a f**kin waste with pushrods ! I'm not a huge fan of fueling but they are working on a 3 valve replacement head for M8 motors that have already proved it can flow more air then the M8 head ! As for me I'll just keep riding my FXR ! Keep the videos comin !

[@GixxerFoo]

FXR is a legend! They have exploded in popularity, that's what the younger guys are trying to buy right now!

[@Imachowderhead]

I have an 03 kawasaki vulcan 1600A that I bought new. It's been in the shop for inspections. Liquid cooled and will run forever. My 14 road king has already broke down on me twice, once being that it overheated.

[@arthurvarady7258]

I have a 2002 Heritage Springer FLSTS with 6800 hundred original easy miles on it and love to ride it on the weekends now and then, All ways liked the Twin cam and Evo Motors. I am 57 now and in the late 80’s and 90’s I was in my prime and loved those years of Harley Davidson, Who needs Emissions anyway, Go away EPA…….

[@tylerlower5140]

I love my 103.... It's not as fast as an M8 but it's close

[@nicholausroadking7356]

Really pleased with my 2017 street glide 10 k miles.

[@davidmount7560]

I’m getting my wife a 2023 cvo tri glide next year,and I own a’95 evo wide glide and a 2010 ultra limited so I’m fairly certain I’ll be making my last Harley purchase next year. Nevertheless I don’t believe I’ll be in the market for a liquid cool hog any time soon. Besides I’m gonna run that evo for all she’s worth. Great video, keep em coming

[@GixxerFoo]

I don't blame you, those Evo's are awesome and they will run forever! Rebuilds aren't super expensive either, parts are very affordable on the Evo!

[@vtwinnking]

Your channel is a fountain of HD wisdom. Thank you!

[@GixxerFoo]

Thank you! We really appreciate the support on the channel!

[@Barchenhund]

Porsche had to go to liquid cooling years ago to pass emission standards also to enhance performance. Everything has a shelf life.

[@GixxerFoo]

Harley's worked closely with Porsche, Porsche has a die hard following and they successfully made the transition to liquid cooling. Harleys working with them on more than just engine development.

[@eddiechildress7856]

Really enjoyed your insight into the future of the water cooled engines. it does bring up a great question.

[@outagas2008]

I agree with you. Sadly, the air cooled Harley's days are numbered. Bummer. Riding the Twin Cam now which I love. Sold the Shovel last year and now I want another. Loved that bike too.

[@semperfipar1299]

I think Harley is doing the right thing and they should have started way back with the VROD. Yes they could have changed the bore and stroke on the VROD to make it fit a bagger. They still could have offered the old engine as an option. Indian right now is doing that with their line up of pushrod engines and now their overhead cam liquid cooled engine. The new sportster flows better than all of the rest of the Harleys. It is a beautiful bike because the FTR came out and it is a beautiful bike. Now let's see if the dealers will kill the new engine and in effect kill the company.

[@GixxerFoo]

Dealers so far have been limited to two Pan Americas and they want more. The Live Wire is collecting dust, l don't know if Harley had a hard talk about the new Revolution Max or if dealers willing embraced it. Pan America is getting new people in the door

[@tetlow2]

I absolutely love the twin cam in my street bob

[@Krossf1re]

I have a 2002 883cc Sportster, that doesn’t look like a sportster at all. Looks more like a sport bike now. Probably puts down 120hp/100ftlbs. Bike weighs maybe 450-500lbs. Gets 60mpg cruising, maybe 35 if I beat the snot out of it. Carb jets stock size, running 13.5AFR. Only downside is, if you want speed, the lack of a 6th gear. I will never get rid of this bike, best thing I’ve ever had. Better than my turbo hayabusa to cruise on, and would handily beat it to 60 i wager (get trashed by 80mph obviously). I just wish the aftermarket would make 4v heads for the evo, and a baker 7spd would be niiiiice. Liquid cooling isn’t necessary, and for EPA reasons, they could use the Atkinson cycle and actually put oil coolers on all bikes to make them more compliant. VVT, SOHC/DOHC, and oil cooling lines between the heads (like XR1200) would go a long way and are likely in the future if HD doesnt go full electric.

[@jerlaine1638]

Well the average of 15 years will mean that yes the old guard gatekeepers who won't let Harley innovate will be dead by them, so yes we can finally get a monstrously powered water cooled Harley

[@chrissmith7669]

I’m more curious about what’s going to happen to the current M8 Softail line. Same price point as the Sportster S but with none of the rider aids that are expected today. The only M8 products with the geewhiz electronics are the touring models above the Electra glide standard. They’re going to be forced to make them at least optional on the remaining models or lose sales to better equipped cheaper models.

[@jamessouthworth1699]

I don't have a problem with Harley adding liquid cooling to their engines. It's all of the other changes and the overhead cams that I'm not too fond of. I was kind of hoping they would just add liquid cool jugs and change the tuning on the existing Sportster engine. Maybe tighten up the tolerances a little bit to complement the liquid cooling. This revolution engine does not look like something you're going to work on at home and since I don't go to mechanics that takes the revolution engine off the table for me.

[@jamessouthworth1699]

I would take a Yamaha Bolt over this new Revolution Sportster

[@jamessouthworth1699]

I used to own a 1981 Honda CX500. That was a liquid-cooled pushrod V-Twin and that went into production over 40 years ago.

[@MrNegative57]

V-Rod , early 80's Evolution engine and V-Rod engine development Harley couldn't afford a mistake. The V-Rod engine was originally a V-4 to compete with Vmax and V65 Magna. Same case profile , looked just like a V-Rod but 4 cylinder. What If ? The Evo won out because they didn't have the resources to build both.

[@vf12497439]

Were only a generation away from the death of the internal combustion engine.

[@MrEiniweini]

I think there is a few years yet. My local dealer had sold 5 Sportster S and had a showroom full of air cooled bikes with "Sold" labels sitting on the floor. It will go like Indian. The larger Challenger engine is some options but air cooled in most for 5 years or so

[@stephenhall6922]

HD will go liquid cooled. Indian got the jump on them. No stock HD puts out the power of the Indian Challenger. I demo rode one and was very impressed. I currently have a 2019 Streetglide with the 114 in it.

[@GixxerFoo]

Yeah Harley's 131 is about the only thing that will compete with the Challenger. In King of the Baggers Harley runs a 131 against the Challengers, but the don't allow the Indian a bore increase.

[@ohdirtracer]

I hope so! This is a long time coming and they finally have my attention.

[@fivepin55]

there are still air cooled v twins out there. Yamaha star venture, Indians, and a few other bikes. But Liquid cooled over head cam bikes have proven there is more power per CC then air cooled counterparts.

[@neilbrown82]

Would be a lot nicer at the new Sportster was priced closer than what the old ones were instead of about 5k more

[@GixxerFoo]

They did drop the top of the line first, or so we think. There are more models to come and I expect some less expensive models to follow. But make no mistake they will blow the paint off the current 1200's.

[@harleyhawk7959]

just had my old O5 bagger motor rebuilt to a 103. with geared cams. balanced flywheel, high flow S.E. oil pump. forged pistons. ported, 102hp. 104tq. oil cooler. new 51mm throttle body. S&S push rods. should be ok for a few years.

[@mickc4633]

I believe it’s going to be sooner than 15 years.

[@GixxerFoo]

Sadly I would have to agree the way things are going.

[@grantkokich6906]

Interesting information on air-cooled v water-cooled Harleys.

[@GixxerFoo]

Thank you, I appreciate it!

[@JustYourAverageSecurity]

Hey I got a 2021 HD Heritage Softail and currently there's a problem about having them tuned due to the new ECM. What's your opinion about it and will ya make a video about it? Truth be told, I didn't know they changed the ECM but now knowing, kinda wish I knew

[@snakebite6511]

I would be all over a new Street Glide with a larger Revo Max liquid engine

[@djmysticalone321]

I don’t worry about any of this I just go riding and have fun non of us will last forever just ride

[@kerrylewis2581]

Not sure what HD is going to do in the future but my plan is to have Kevin Baxter build me a Skunk Works engine after the end of next season. That engine should last me the rest of my time on two wheels.

[@GixxerFoo]

Kevin Baxter builds some stout engines, it will be bad ass and reliable!

[@kerrylewis2581]

@@GixxerFoo Hope to see it rebuilt on KZbin. It will easily have over 150,000 miles so he may find it interesting to post.

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

I think that the Nova prototype motorcycle is a very attractive motorcycle as well as being something different from the typical Japanese motorcycle of the time. How much technology do you need to run one person or two down the highway on a motorcycle? My 30-7 cubic inch BMW makes 42 horsepower and that is 1970s engineering as big as the Harley Motors yet they still only make one horsepower per cubic inch something the British had in the 1950s. I shake my head in disbelief as to the gargantuan bloated Behemoth that the light Speedster that the knucklehead 61 cubic inch Harley has morphed into over the years.

[@dustinalexander1829]

I'm fine with it. Now stop charging 40k for a Road glide.

[@oldschool5505]

I think the Milwaukee 8 will be the last air cooled V twin. Maybe upgraded in the future but eventually go to water cooling. I still have a Evo and a Milwaukee 8. Low on power but a great Evo thump!

[@andysmith3843]

Have you thought about doing a video on the state of the bore an piston head with a scope . I do mine not that I'm always so happy but we don't have heat issues in NZ like you do in US.

[@bibleboys3560]

Well, the V Rod didn’t look, ride, and sound like a thumping Harley. Why don’t they build a 45 degree water cooled Harley ?

[@ScottUpdike-w5y]

2014-2016 ultras had twin cooled engines

[@justin.s9783]

i think this will increase the value of used bikes. unless they can offer the new ones at the same entry price, but i doubt that. good topic

[@GixxerFoo]

Thank you! The price of Evo's is steadily on the rise already!

[@johnnieours2111]

I like the looks of the new sportster, I think it will be a hit, but to get one right now is going to be tough because all the dealers in my area are already sold out and they haven't even been delivered yet.

[@jeffreyengle2762]

Dang grateful I get to own and ride, my ‘19 Road King….. everything a Harley should be (that is, after about 10 grand of upgrades🤪)

[@GixxerFoo]

Lol right! They are never where you want them to be from the factory!

[@wooddawg4868]

Harley Davidson is last to the table on modern fully liquid cooled & fully counter balanced motorcycles. The Revolution Max Platform is what HD developed and placed on the shelf until it’s needed. Well other manufacturers like BMW & Indian have these reliable, low maintenance engines already in their bikes.

[@KevinButler816]

Well the new CEO said they will always have a 45 degree V-Twin. That being said we will see bagger models with a different version of the Revolution Max soon.

[@FranBunnyFFXII]

I think the M8 will be probably the last they make of anything aircooled primary. I think they may try to apply that aircooled VVT Pushrod patent design later on in life, but I doubt it if its not going into a new sportster. I do hope they maintain the radial cynlinder placement and fake cooling fins in the future if they do go with a fully liquid cooled Big Twin. I hate offset cylinder placements, they look all wrong. I cant stand how they look in indian's bikes, and all the Japanese cruisers. It looks awful. I'd rather have a PTWin than an offset VTwin. So I hope they keep the radial rear cylinder directly behind the front cylinder design like all the Big Twins and EVO engine all have. It'll look nice and fitting so long as it looks like a harley engine. Im sad the RevoMax has offset cylinders, even though its well hidden from the viewer. I hope HD is smart about it, or else ill be riding an M8 for the rest of my harley riding days. Though I have to say that Nightster/Iron VROD+Dyna hybrid looking RevoMax Bike they teased and leaked in the survey... That bike looks dope. If you don't know what bike I'm talking about then ill try to get the images of it to ya. It looks epic, but I'm not sure if it'd replace my love for the radial Vtwin.

[@GixxerFoo]

You hit the nail on the head right there, offset cylinders don't look right. If they go liquid cooled they got to keep that radial design with the fins.

[@anthonygiovannikarmawisera218]

I was told when i bought my 2020 Softail Slim it was oil cooled. That's what the told me. I'm glad i got my 2020 because i heard nightmares about the early M8's like oil sump pump and so on..

[@GixxerFoo]

2020 had the updated oil pump, anything earlier than that can be a nightmare. Oil sumping, ring issues, blow by etc. Even with the 2020 a vented dipstick or trans cover isn't a bad idea. The M8's crankcase ventilation sucks, it's gotta go some where and pushing oil past the rings is the easiest place for it to go.

[@lovingmylifeasIage6741]

I agree. This might be the last year for the air cooled engine. Harley can't just sit by a wait. They have to get up to gear and compete.

[@GixxerFoo]

It was big surprise when Indian came out with a all new clean sheet air cooled engine in 2013, lol Harley wasn't a huge shock but going forward I think development is going liquid.

[@vernlochtefeld1626]

@@GixxerFoo Does Indian’s air cooled twin have anything on the M8?

[@nextridemtb489]

Do the M8 really need vented dip sticks for the oil or a vent in the transfer case?

[@donwaltman4276]

I really hate to admit it but I think you're right about liquid cooled engines. But look at it this way, 20 years ago if you had seen (heard) a Milwaukee 8 what would you have thought? Now we love em

[@jjs8046]

And yes, air-cooled Big-Twins are done.

[@GixxerFoo]

Indian's Thunder Stroke was a shock when it was the first all new air cooled design when it came out. With the electric push I am hard pressed to see really any all new designs especially air cooled.

[@erico6247]

I think they're going to start looking into the future and the future is water cooled! I know air cooled looks cool but they're so damn hot to ride sometimes! It's like you have to constantly be moving to keep them and yourself from getting so hot! Water cool would be nice.

[@1kzrider]

Only reason I would be ok with going liquid cooled is where I ride is so much traffic. Heat build up is no joke. Had a bike over heat in dc in traffic on a hill. Electraglide TC. No fun. Fully loaded in travel.

[@scrumthebum2451]

I’m still pissed off they gave the pan American 29 more HP Then the new sportster 🤦‍♂️

[@marvelharris9540]

Less torque tho... sporty may be lighter as well so it should beat it to the stop light

[@Brett0000]

They didn’t give the Pan American more HP. They Detuned the sportster, so they could sell you back the HP with Stage kits.

[@scrumthebum2451]

@@Brett0000 That is incorrect, they didn’t just detune it they gave the sportster smaller valves, different pistons & combustion chamber. So you’re not going to be able to run a power vision tune to get the HP back. It’s going to be expensive & maybe not doable if the EPA Has it’s way

[@wdurazo22]

Air cooled!!! One less issue to worry about while on the road.

[@damonpulliam6211]

Right like liquid cooled cars are breaking down all the time even the model T was liquid cooled

[@ganuvien]

Weird, I always see Harleys overheated on the side of the road here in Texas 😂.

[@DCSPORTSTER]

@@ganuvien if you use Amsoil and have the engine tune properly it shouldn’t be a problem with overheating. I still like the KISS method keep it simple stupid causes a lot less grief

[@upsidedowndog1256]

I would have liked to see the VRod engine in bike like the Livewire.

[@lpd1snipe]

I am one of the riders you're talkin about aging out. I won't buy a water-cooled Harley. I own and ride four Harleys. 1949 EL, 1968 XLH, 1996 FLHR-I, and a 2019 FXLR. I like the M-8 engine for over-the-road running at speed. But for all-around cruising, it's my Road King or my Panhead.

[@nicanorneto9697]

Amazing content! Greeting from Brazil! Subscribed! Oh... I'll keep my 2008 Twin Cam Fat Boy as long as I live!!!

[@GixxerFoo]

That's awesome you've got a TC Fat Boy in Brazil, I bet it's beautiful scenery to cruise around in down there!

[@mikedanaher3413]

As much as I really don’t want to see it. It’s inevitable that Harley is going to have to produce liquid cooled bikes.

[@FilterYT]

Great video, thanks. Do you know Project Farm btw?

[@GixxerFoo]

Thank you, lol no I don't know him and I am not him. He's got a great channel though, I watch him quite often myself. He's pretty sharp coming up with all those different tests, I was watching him back when he did all kinds of tests on the lawn mower engines.

[@dingznthingz]

Do you think the new H.D. Pan American engine will be slid into frames of other H.D. street bikes? I am tempted as all hell to buy me a Pan American in orange color. It'l look great next to my Scorched Orange 2020 Ultra Limited with the blacked out option. I personally don't care if Harley starts selling bikes with aluminum bug catchers up front, as long as Harley Davidson keeps making Harley Davidsons. F.Y.I. I owned a couple of Ducati 916's. The radiators were mounted under the seat.

[@GixxerFoo]

They've already got that Sportster S, some subscribers that went to Sturgis got to ride one out there. They it's pretty mean and gets sideways in 3rd gear. Were going to see a lot more models coming on that Revolution Max platform.

[@dingznthingz]

@@GixxerFoo Sounds like fun to me. Check out the Pan American.

[@bryanford1139]

Worked for a H-D dealer for 17yrs....they don't have a choice, have to go liquid cooled to pass emissions/noise PERIOD! It's comin...

[@RGHD912]

It seems like if you don’t have 150/150 hp/torque now a days you don’t have nothing, Performance Bagger!

[@yoshit9819]

Loving my shovel even more

[@GixxerFoo]

They are timeless motors and easy to work on!

[@marvinr5054]

I honestly can't wait to see a all liquid cooled Bagger that make over 120 tq at the tire at low rpm so it could kick butt on Indian and it will do it without mods. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[@jiltedjohn9294]

The Triumph twin that you showed is cleverly made to look air cooled but is liquid

[@GixxerFoo]

Triumph has done a hell of a job, they even made their throttle bodies look like carbs.

[@jiltedjohn9294]

@@GixxerFoo That's a bone of contention with some people ...dummy carbs, but it gets people on bikes especially ladies of which there are more than ever here in Britain

[@rgh622]

@@GixxerFoo no kidding? I didn't know that. Smoke and mirrors baby!

[@jamesmerritt1899]

I thought harley should update the sportster like triumph did the Bonneville. A midsized liquid cooled cruiser with retro styling.

[@kiwidadygirl]

Btw I know he didn't say otherwise but he kind of implied it. Harley didn't develop the Evo after the buy back. The Evo (yes, the best V twin motor ever made) was a amf design. They created the Evo. Just sayin'

[@gentrydebbie1040]

I bought one of the First Buell's and it had EFI sucked, and at a traffic Light it would Shake your hands off the grips, The EFI if the bike was not ridden 2 or three miles hot You better not pull out into moving traffic If you tried to do a wheelie it would Spit You had to Blip the Throttle when Hot Ran fine? I have a 2012 fatBoy Twin Cam good love the six speed but The idle on my EVO is awesome?

[@tyroneturner4215]

I understand the reasoning behind all the recent changes but at the end of the day what HD does going forward won't affect me at all. Got on my first motorcycle at 14, got my first Harley at 25 and been doing my own work for the past 24 years, so there's no reason I can't keep both of my carbureted dinosaurs running for as long as I want. And to be completely honest, I'm too stubborn and stuck in my ways to learn about anything newer than a carbureted twin cam.

[@rgh622]

God, I love my carbureted Harley! I wish them well in a liquid-cooled engine or an air-cooled one. Hell, I'll buy anything if I like it enough.

[@larry68hd11]

Great video. I think water's coming soon

[@GixxerFoo]

I think so too, I would rather have Harley go water cooled than all electric.

[@sidneysnottley6414]

Last? ... Yep.

[@dougbrian744]

Everything is a trade off especially with the EPA and the sound regulations. Liquid cooled is great and helps your engine perform better while not burning all the additives out of your oil. BUT you will miss out on that classic harley sound that we love . Nothing sounded like a cab ran harley and a carb was easier to work on and make adjustments. But the performance of an EFI gave you more horsepower and more torque all of this, while again, cutting back on sound. Everything is trade off

[@jondoe8816]

yeh sporty went through evo and twin cam and some M8 think 84\85 till 21 not a bad run

[@AlainTabangin]

I hope they do. Kinda of tired of having to buy extras just to cool my m8 to keep it reliable.

[@sunsinger970]

In reality how much better could they make air cooled engines? Regardless of emissions if you want bikes to get better you'll need to upgrade tech.

[@GixxerFoo]

The water cooled heads and oil cooling is about the peak of innovation on air cooling in my opinion. The 4 valve heads helped but I think we are at the end of the road.

[@jr388]

I think Harley will introduce that liquid cooled motor into the Trikes first.

[@GixxerFoo]

Getting that 114 in the trikes helped a lot, they were really underpowered with the 103. It did alright but if you ride a 114 you'll notice difference immediately.

[@jr388]

@@GixxerFoo I have a 19 Freewheeler. I couldn't imagine this thing with a 103ci.

[@simonkennedy6116]

The Revolution is the way Harley wants to go. They'll probably be working on and around that engine to produce bigger motors. I, for one, am all for liquid cooled engines - better engines, better bikes. Off topic, there's another '82 FXR up for sale and I'm very tempted. It's a grand more than the last one I was looking at but it's in a far better condition and 11k miles... Very tempting

[@GixxerFoo]

Condition really drive the price on those FXR's and if that's original miles I wouldn't hesitate on that one! They made that Revolution platform modular with the current version, I think they will scale down from the 1250 but I can definitely seeing something bigger coming in the future!

[@simonkennedy6116]

@@GixxerFoo They may even be working on a different liquid cooled engine right now, I'd be surprised if they weren't. But you're right about baggers, it's where Harley's base is and they are the most stubborn about change. If there was a liquid cooled bagger/dresser/barge, those crusty's would have to put up or shut up

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

If Harley mechanic at the dealership can't properly repair their M H series bike what makes you think that they can repair all these fancy double overhead cam Jeff bike copies that they're making an older Sportster is so expensive to build because it has four cams yet is 50% cheaper than the newer Sportster yeah I'm going to buy a $15,000 bike over a $10,000 bike oh yeah Harley's new motor is just like all of the Modern Motors they are built cheap with a limited lifespan where is he older bikes were built to be rebuildable forever which is why you still have British bikes on the road fifty years after the demise of their manufacturers the aftermarket makes so much better stuff than the factories couldn't even dream of

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

One factor that people don't seem to consider is that Harley is not interested it seems in selling a bike less than 25 or $30,000 they just can't seem to understand that working people these days being strapped as they are cannot afford a $30,000 toy but Indian you can buy a bobber American-made for Seven Grand with a modern high-tech liquid cool motor and in the victory days you never heard anybody playing of having problems with a victory so now they just dress them up to look like a vintage Indian a young person getting it to motorcycling can afford a $7,000 motorcycle but not a 20000 + motorcycle Harley is drowning in repossessions and lots of tens of thousands they are trying to unload all of their loans to investors saying that they can make 8% interest but all these guys are tired of paying $500 a month for 96 months just to play biker at bike night so they just tell Harley to come and get the bike and that's it they're done with being a biker really sidewalk Commando fads come and fads go

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

The new Harleys are as butt-ugly as the new Jap bikes or the new Ducati they all look like an escapee from a Japanese anime cartoon their looks are absolutely ridiculous everybody is climbing up to fall off the same cliff by chasing older customers who have money who are dropping like flies the companies that depend on people buying a 20000 + motorcycle may not have a future Indian has a nice range of bikes you could buy two Bobbers for the price of a Sportster s and there's but new bike does not even deserve the title of Sportster Harley is never going to be able to beat the Japanese motorcycle industry at their own game and let's face it for the price of a new Harley you could go to SNS Motors and build any type of Harley of your dreams with whatever engine you wants front end frame sheet metal sheet etc etc today's motorcycles are nothing but a collection of government regulations on two wheels which is why they're so hardly abominable motorcycles used to stir the soul and now they turn your stomach