Mindfulness Could Lose You Your Job

We'll look at one recent article in the Harvard Business Review that claims mindfulness meditation can lead to worse job performance, something that could potentially lose you your job. Why is this and what lessons should we take from it?
H/T to Ted Meissner for the article!
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[@DougsDharma]

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[@cheyennealvis7899]

hi Doug. Listening to this will help you out. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5yUlYBohrCMqtU

[@dwijgurram5490]

Meditation through work aka karma yoga is a very ancient practice . This is mentioned in BHAGVAD GITA too

[@talisanoberlandr]

Mindfulness can be especially dangerous if workers become enlightened and form a union. ;)

[@DougsDharma]

😆Yes that would be something wouldn't it!

[@bobbyandersson3382]

😁

[@dianav.5837]

Mindfulness forced me to leave my job in healthcare after 18 years. The work that I loved became toxic and destructive. It was a great lesson in ego, and attachment. I was definitely using calming practice routinely to get through the day. The working conditions came into direct conflict with my values. It’s all about profit over patients, and employees are expendable. Covid only made things worse. Eventually I came to the conclusion that it was a no win situation and had to walk away. Two years later I’m still struggling, but know I made the correct decision. Mindfulness saved my life and my sanity. ❤️

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks for your input Diana, it's very valuable to hear from someone who dealt with it up close! I hope you are doing better now. 🙏

[@dwijgurram5490]

Meditation through work aka karma yoga is a very ancient practice . This is mentioned in BHAGVAD GITA too

[@CH-jj8wk]

I feel the same as a teacher, and I've only been doing this for few months. It's often in direct conflict with my practice. I'm only at the beginning of my career and I already feel its toxicity, and I also have to take moments throughout the day to focus on my breathe and take a pause. It's hard.

[@5hydroxyT]

i also work in healthcare and practice mindfulness...my practice has caused me to see my work in a different light, and question the system we work in. I have great faith in the way, however. Kudos to you and your courage; i hope your decision has led to internal peace and greater freedom

[@dianav.5837]

@@CH-jj8wk I’m so sorry to hear this. Just know that you’re not alone in your feelings. Sometimes what we think we want, doesn’t resonate with who we are at our core. What helped me move forward was to identify what truly brings me joy which is freedom and creativity. Unfortunately, in order to do that I had to give up a lot, but it’s worth it. Sometimes, old habits and thought patterns creep in, but I just remind myself how “security” made me miserable.

[@JagjotSinghNonDuality]

You're right! Mindfulness lost me my job. But it led to something far more valuable.

[@DougsDharma]

Glad to hear it! 🙂

[@lasithaamiyangoda]

Mine to 🤩

[@xiaomaozen]

😁😊❤

[@yapsweeleng]

Me too. Lost many jobs over the past 10+ years and gave up at some point, still no permanent job ..... somehow, I believe I am on the right path. Sadhu sadhu sadhu ...... 😑

[@dwijgurram5490]

Meditation through work aka karma yoga is a very ancient practice . This is mentioned in BHAGVAD GITA too.

[@videomaster8580]

Did Morrissey say it best? "I was looking for a job, and then I found a job. And heaven knows I'm miserable now."

[@DougsDharma]

😆 Good one!

[@dwijgurram5490]

Meditation through work aka karma yoga is a very ancient practice . This is mentioned in BHAGVAD GITA too

[@shaolinotter]

“in my life, why must I spend valuable time, on people who don’t care if I live or die?”

[@LameBushido]

Hello! I think the main problem with using mindfulness training to reduce stress in the workplace is when it is used as a replacement for improving the worker's conditions. This is the neoliberal atomisation of the worker as an individual who must not complain, organise or demand emancipation. You can't really talk about this issue apolitically.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, it's tough to discuss this neutrally. Thanks LameBushido.

[@JamesSmith-kt3bi]

Twice I have lost jobs, both in a small firm and a corporate, by being unwilling to act unskilful in my action towards my fellow employees (refusing to be part of a panel designed just to de-select others through new role allocation) and the client, (refusing to lie when asked a direct question, though the client had their own axe to grind). I was in fact very successful in applying Buddhist methods to reorganisation (Protect Eradicate, Develop and Maintain) which resulted in turning around chronically bad situations, much to the amazement of the employees involved, but in the end, once the initial stabilization was achieved it was time to "let the Buddhist go". As for, Mindfulness in the corporate space, it is only to get people who fall of the horse to get back on, and it's cheaper than actually changing work practices that create chronic stress (same in the British Health Service). Nevertheless, I know from experience that many people are thirsting for meaningful, engaged employment, and lives. Also, the Financial Times has tracked over 10 years "Ethical" based companies and they clearly outperform short-term, number-driven, revolving door companies. So even for the corporates, it's bad. A crooked casino will always make less money than a legitimate long term operation (putting the issue of the ethics of gambling to one side) As for me, I have squirreled away enough saving and cleared all debts and am for now working with Buddhist businesses for free, and looking towards working for a salary with an environmental NGO. Still, it took many, many years to be in that position. You buy out not in. If you live a lifestyle that makes you indebted with inflated consumption and material expectations then you are tied to the wheel. Of course, there is the family and the mortgage, but if you don't dig a tunnel you will never get off the wheel, and eventually, you will be broken. The big takeaway is a right livelihood The Buddha never worked in a call centre, even the Bodhisattva would only last so long. Get out, or get Mindfulness Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, so the rat can get back in the maze, until the next breakdown or lay-off or both. Yes, this burns deep, Thank you for bringing it to the fore Doug, appreciated, steels my resolve. Aye the best Kind regards.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks James, excellent reflections. Best to you!

[@tonidarko8410]

Maybe if mindfulness isnt possible in a job, you gotta get a new job. My suffering in my jobs lead me to build my own company, you arent supposed to silence your intuition, follow it, dont waste time.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes I think that makes a lot of sense Hsin.

[@dwijgurram5490]

Meditation through work aka karma yoga is a very ancient practice . This is mentioned in BHAGVAD GITA too

[@vaeItaja]

When you meditate yourself into unemployment

[@lildwarflikes6386]

monk mode

[@andrew7008]

Another great video. As Doug suggested, both mindfulness- and tranquility-oriented practices tend to quickly increase the sensitivity of the knowing mind but only gradually increase wholesome qualities like goodwill and wisdom that actually unravel suffering, so everyone encounters this sort of magnification of unpleasantness at some point. I work at a restaurant and often feel the unpleasantness of "surface acting" and interacting with rowdy or demanding customers; but, having had the good fortune of a few years of devoted practice and long-term retreats, I also feel the pleasantness of metta and of releasing the habit of I/my-making in reaction to what others say or do and what this mind thinks. So... keep practicing, everything will work out :)

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks so much for your input Andrew, good to hear from someone dealing with these issues first-hand.

[@CH-jj8wk]

I am a teacher, specifically a trainee teacher who started in 2020 - the year of on and off lockdown teaching/half full classrooms (in the UK). It has been unbelievably stressful. I don't work at some peaceful, relaxing private school where behaviour is no issue - behaviour for us is a constant issue, as is laziness. I find myself having to be firm, often rasing my voice and purposefully being reactive. I don't have time to take a breathe and consider what to do next, because by that point I have already lost the moment and something else has happened that needs my attention. My job does not align with my mindfulness practice. In fact, I would argue that the only step on the eightfold path or lies on is the "right livelihood". I am helping these students to become adults, and forming the future generation in some small way. But the rest of it? My life is out of balance, I have a specific room in my life in which I cannot exercise my Buddhist practice and I often leave feeling drained and that I have acted in a way that does not reflect my personality, beliefs or my own goals even as a teacher. I don't beat myself up about it, because this is just how schools work in the poor area I've landed in with this role - the behaviour is such that it demands we be reactive and in doing so try to preserve what calm we can find. I also very often have to be stern when I am telling students that they cannot be lazy or waste my/their time. I can't meet then where they are because I don't have time, and they have somewhere they NEED to be, withing a certain time period. It's exhausting and I actually don't think I can do this for as long as I had planned to. This is why teaching has such a poor staff retention rate. It's fucking hard and the government have made it nigh on impossible to be a functioning adult while also being a teacher. It's not working for us or the students - NOBODY is benefitting.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes I hear what you're saying C. HC. Teaching is a very difficult job that is underpaid and underappreciated. It's great that you're trying though! 🙏

[@marcusbeast100]

SUPER interesting! Especially the point of “inauthenticity”, what if you were to also teach your employees the ways of compassion and lovingkindness? When someone is being rude, they have lovingkindness to ease the difficult feelings that arise & won’t be “acting” if they are practicing compassion

[@DougsDharma]

Good point, it's hard to discuss these matters in the abstract, it'd depend on the context. But an honest attempt to introduce lovingkindness or compassion should be a great thing.

[@dwijgurram5490]

Meditation through work aka karma yoga is a very ancient practice . This is mentioned in BHAGVAD GITA too

[@eleusis2286]

I love your channel. Thank you for spreading such valuable information to those who may not have been exposed otherwise. You’re doing an amazing thing.

[@DougsDharma]

You're very welcome Luke, it's my pleasure!

[@origamicaptain5664]

I'm a lead in a service position. In my experience being authentic is significantly more beneficial, than try to pretend. In the end, if someone is being difficult that is because they have a misunderstanding of what will lead them to happiness and we can show compassion to those people and if we do so mindfully I feel people would be amazed at how quickly a difficult client can be your closest allies. I think mindfulness without metta meditation could be problematic because both are needed to get to the truth of things. I think the article is well-intentioned by slightly myopic in its view of meditation and mindfulness training. Mindfulness training should be given by a monk or someone with years or experience otherwise issues like what is being described here can occur.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, if mindfulness is accompanied by metta or karuna meditation it will probably be more skillful when working with the public.

[@ryisyourguy]

Same- shift supervisor at sbux here. Really appreciated your comment and thoughts. Gonna try to apply it to my daily work to make it more tolerable. :)

[@dahouse1552]

Jeff was furious. Ever since he offered his employees at Disneyland those cursed introspection courses, their work performance diminished. One attraction operator even quit his job because he realized he wasted 15 years wearing a Mickey Mouse costume and being friendly to 5 year olds who couldn't even see his face. Another one ended up travelling to Sri Lanka and attained Nirvana at the age of 45. Jeff would never offer introspection courses again. Then the economy burst and Jeff lost his job too. Then he died. The end. Oh, and Doug made a video about it.

[@DougsDharma]

😄

[@shaolinotter]

This actually hits home for me. My boss often gets frustrated when he can’t rile me up with threats or accusations. And I just hit em with the mild smile :)

[@DougsDharma]

😄That's great to hear, the Buddha considered it great practice when we can respond mildly to annoyances, but be aware of the inner feelings so you don't bypass them in a way that makes them worse later on.

[@tobiaskapp1487]

I just want to say how thankful I am for the conversation-oriented style of your videos. You never give a definitive answer or try to persuade me, the viewer, but ask questions and point out flaws and controversies in every kind of thinking. Not to destroy those beliefs but to engage a conversation and keep everyone humble and open to new opinions. Maybe you already answered this question but I would love to hear a take on how work, in a broader sense, be it for your own sake and enjoyment, for helping others or for a company, relates to the Buddha.

[@DougsDharma]

That's a big topic Tobias. I have a whole course on it over at the Online Dharma Institute: onlinedharma.org/p/work-money-pleasure . Though in a nutshell the Buddha didn't have anything against laypeople engaging in an honest livelihood. Indeed, the sangha depended on lay donations, so needed there to be a financially healthy and stable lay population.

[@value8035]

"Adverse" effects of mindfullness may be even more severe in management and executive decision makers rather than the service and sales workers. However, in the core of the problem is not about loosing the job, but re-calibrate the job to something which looks radically different from what is the norm. For example, the emperor Asoka used to be the king of the kings, but after becoming aware, he has drastically changed his ways and means, as well as his objectives as an executive. So did he become "unsuccessful" by being mindful? Probably yes by the terms of his previous standards. However, most importantly, the definition of success changed.

[@DougsDharma]

That's a good way to think of it Value. Involving mindfulness can change one's job description, hopefully to something more skillful.

[@QuyNguyen-lm1gq]

We don't have to worry about losing jobs if we practice mindfulness along with right livelihood . It will lead us to finding a proper job .

[@DougsDharma]

It should definitely help, yes.

[@dwijgurram5490]

Meditation through work aka karma yoga is a very ancient practice . This is mentioned in BHAGVAD GITA too

[@bobbyandersson3382]

Great video! 🙏🏽

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks Bobby! 🙏

[@wiser.kinder.calmer.6530]

thanks Doug, I'm teaching mindfulness at university, this is useful

[@DougsDharma]

Glad to hear it Matt, that’s great you’re teaching it.

[@hammersaw3135]

I practice mindfulness while doing remodeling tasks at work. Every time I practice I do a better job than if I am not practicing. Often things go wrong during remodeling, and remaining mindful allows me to keep my blood pressure from spiking while I face the challenges of the day.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, great point! 🙏

[@chriseden9946]

Dear Doug, thank you for this and all the other fantastic videos/ teachings. Yet another great material with clear explanations. 🙏 Had the same experience than many other commentators. I have been (trying 😉) practicing for some years now. About 3 years ago have had the luck to meet a great Vajrayana teacher. The “cutting” that was made by the “blade” has had a major impact on my life. Working in the corporate environment for the last 13 years, I just could not bare it any longer (was surely a lengthy process and I never felt really home). Approx one and a half year ago, just after changing jobs to another corporation, I quit just after half a year. Interestingly, I did not even think much about it. Just wrote my resignation and hand it in. Started my own company a year ago, doing what I always wanted to do. Now, surely I struggle financially and I might opt somewhere for a part time while building up the business. But still, applications are not sent to big, controversial companies any longer but to organizations that communicate clearly without any double meanings and BS. Take good care and thanks again for the awesome videos. 😊🙏

[@DougsDharma]

Happy to hear it Chris, and I hope you find the right work for you! 🙏😊

[@chriseden9946]

@@DougsDharma Thank you for your loving kindness ☺️

[@geoffh2560]

Thanks Doug, a really thought provoking video. My own experience of mindful meditation has been pretty positive, including in the workplace, but I'm fortunate to work for an ethical employer (university) and I can well imagine folks working for less ethical employers would have a very different experience.

[@DougsDharma]

That's right Geoff, either way I think it can be a help, at least in clarifying the mind so we can get a better sense of what's really going on.

[@DPLS77]

How did that line in Plato's Allegory of the Cave go? "Previously he had been looking merely at phantoms; now he is nearer to the true nature of being."

[@DougsDharma]

Yes something like that. Plato was an interesting guy.

[@dwijgurram5490]

Meditation through work aka karma yoga is a very ancient practice . This is mentioned in BHAGVAD GITA too

[@jeffnewton4184]

Love your channel and what you say. Very educational and contemplative. I see a third option here Doug in addition to the two you offer. Mindfulness within Buddhism is intended as a starting point really, and not an end in itself. The secular world has taken mindfulness and run with it as you pointed out but it is 'out of context'. As a Buddhist practitioner, once one achieves mindfulness, or at least a good level of mindfulness, one is encouraged to move into a deeper level of meditation in order to achieve insight into oneself. This is often called Vipassana meditation within the world of Buddhism. It is my understanding that mindfulness is really only a starting point for Vipassana. While it is great and beneficial in itself it is the preparation for Vipassana. So the third option is to move to a different kind of meditation once mindfulness has been achieved to a degree which supports a deeper look. This is actually what Quy Nguyen 2 days ago (edited) is getting at in their post. Because one needs to move beyond mindfulness to get to Right Livelihood.

[@DougsDharma]

Well Vipassana is only one approach to practice, an approach that basically originated in late 19th c. Burma with Ledi Sayadaw. (See: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hn-9g3eGpditoas ). It's good practice for sure, but requires a good deal of dedication and is not the only route we can take.

[@billhicks8]

Maybe the social context in which these jobs currently exist is simply an environment not conducive to skillful, ethical function? Maybe it tells us more about the conditions we allow to endure more than it does the merits and drawbacks of meditation itself

[@ptyleranodon3081]

Exactly my thoughts

[@DougsDharma]

Yes that certainly could be part of it. This is something the Buddha himself commented on. Lay life is a life of constant compromises.

[@5hydroxyT]

such an interesting issue that i can relate to...i too work in the service industry (healthcare) and practice mindfulness. My concern, however, is that mindfulness has somehow made me so acutely aware and sensitive to the suffering of others that i often feel overwhelmed. It can make it difficult to make it through the day knowing what people are going through. I have great faith in this practice, however, and i believe that some good will come out of this.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, it may help to aim your practice more towards the early notion of compassion as well-wishing rather than towards empathy, which can become overwhelming. See for example: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIfTlaKka754qLs And thanks so much for your service in healthcare! It's so important. 🙏

[@xiaomaozen]

Another great video! Couldn't have made it better... 🤪😂 ❤🙏🏻

[@DougsDharma]

Thank you! 😁

[@shantanushekharsjunerft9783]

So mindfulness can destroy a politician’s career 😃

[@DougsDharma]

😆

[@westsidesmitty1]

Interesting and astute discussion! I think no one should underestimate the profound and deep changes in the unconscious and even in brain morphology (and the correlative behavioral changes that come with, for example, shrinkage of the amygdala (probable source of anxiety) and the lessening of the hegemony of the ''default mode'' of our ''normal'', egoic state of mind). The biggest factor, I have anecdotal and personal reasons to believe, correlates chiefly with time spent in meditation. I'm guessing these corporations and the military, etc. are teaching short ''time outs'' used, as necessary, to achieve relaxation and relief from stress. One could remain at that stage for a lifetime and be well satisfied, as deep and mindful breathing is so very effective at producing the ''relaxation response'' which is the opposite of the fight or flight response. But if for, whatever reason, one begins to do half hour sessions or longer, or if perhaps one went on a retreat and was exposed to deep practice, then pretty much regardless of expectations or beliefs, the 2500 year old anapanasati, and satipatthana practices (and also the more recently codified versions of vipassana that are so wildly popular) will work at a very profound level and lead to the clarity that is compassion, and related ethical changes. Modern ''depth psychology'' (Freudian or otherwise) - the famous ''talking cures'' so in vogue in the 20th century- is (IMO), child's play compared to the changes wrought at every level of the psyche by regular, sustained, Buddhist practice. It is all in the doing (and doing it regularly and for longer periods of time) that the changes would come such that being someone who works in arms dealing/manufacturing, hurting the environment, economic exploitation, or engaging in organized violence becomes personally unacceptable. -Just my thoughts on a fascinating subject that I hope will contribute to the discussion. Thank you for another thought provoking video! Metta

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, well said Smitty. Thanks!

[@theunassumnglocalguy5441]

My practice has helped me greatly with the frustration and angry that results from my job stresses. At the same time its brought up an intresting problem. As I attempt to move away from the hindrences I find myself realising how unhealthy my work enviroment and people in it are. Everyone hates the place and constantly attack and demean each other. I will come into work fresh off of metta or insight meditation and within the hour I struggle not to be pulled back into the toxic mindset of the people I have to spend 12 plus hours of my day with. The deeper my practice goes, the harsher this reality becomes.

[@DougsDharma]

Wow that's really too bad! But maybe realizing this can help you make beneficial change in your life.

[@bencharits]

Thank you for the insight as always. I found that mindfulness has helped me deal with difficult problems at work in a kinder, more gentle, and more effective way. I am surprised to see that we cannot use mindfulness it certain job. I thought it would have applied to most jobs and have not seen a conflict. However, after watching this video, I could now see the conflicts and appreciate your suggestions.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, I think mindfulness can be used in all jobs, the problem is that if we use it in jobs that involve suffering, then mindfulness will bring that suffering to our awareness more directly. That's good for us, but maybe bad for the job! 🙂

[@bencharits]

@@DougsDharma That is very true. It would be hard to lie or to create suffering while practicing mindfulness. Thank you.

[@brianvitagliano975]

I could see mindfulness being an issue if you stop at just recognition but among the lay community, I feel that we should especially try to ensure we work through a resolution that we can come to terms with if even for the moment. Buddhism for me, has always been a freedom to understand imperfection in all things and being able to work through the imperfections either as a whole or in smaller ways while staying on a path with a strong foundation we can believe in. The only conflicts I felt is when absolutism is applied so strictly in those that practice.

[@DougsDharma]

Good points Brian, thanks!

[@canibaloxide]

So there is hope that the system's recoupment of meditation could backfire

[@DougsDharma]

I think if mindfulness is pursued properly it will lead the way.

[@jeanluclariviere7107]

Hey Doug, loving the content but miss your usual intro! I thought it was great.

[@DougsDharma]

Ah interesting Jeanluc, I've had a number of them over the years. Which one did you like? In general I've tried to streamline things a bit and get to the material quicker with the thinking that many folks don't want to see an intro! 🙂

[@jeanluclariviere7107]

@@DougsDharma "I'm Doug Smith of the online dharma institute. If you're new to this channel and interested in living a wiser, and a kinder, and a calmer life, consider subscribing..." :), I like to think that this helped bridge the gap between humanity and philosophy. It took the edge off what could sometimes feel like clinical discussions. That being said, I appreciate the need to optimize; the youtube algorithm is certainly a beast to be reckoned with, so if you see the view count going up, don't change back on my account! :)

[@livchapman8051]

Having had many types of jobs, all jobs require some level of inauthenticity...if we went around being totally authentic the workplace would be interesting to say the least! Surface acting is normal. The key thing is that you can be authentic when and where it counts. And that is 100 percent possible even if you are surface acting.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks Liv, agreed. I think to an extent all of life involves at least a little surface acting from time to time.

[@seadawg93]

I’m skeptical of the ethical focus of corporate mindfulness, beyond the most shallow ‘self care.’ I think that most things called ‘mindfulness’ by corporations are really shamata (what I think you translating as ‘calming’) that pacifies employees into being more effective in working to hard in toxic environments.

[@jupiterinaries6150]

There was an article recently about how mindfulness in an improper context can actually make you selfish. It's so important to practice meditation along with the ethical practices of the Dhamma.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes that wouldn't surprise me. I think it's great to practice lovingkindness along with mindfulness meditation.

[@RomanDianaOZ]

Whatever has been conceived with an unwholesome intention will bear unwholesome fruits. The same goes for mindfulness practices. There is a difference between a person who intends to be mindful just for the sake that he / she could generate a better financial outcome and a person who wants to become mindful so they could be more harmonious with all beings around. ! When the latter is the case one should not worry about losing jobs or "friends" etc. Keep practicing through having wholesome intentions and the dharma will point to the right direction. This is my experience so far.

[@DougsDharma]

That's true though do keep in mind that the Buddha had nothing against laypeople making an honest living.

[@sonamtshering194]

Guess the problem is how people process their heightened awareness resulting from mindfulness practice. It is said that from the intense practice of mindfulness you recognise the value of life yet in the case of samurai trained in zen such as Miyamoto Musashi they just became more efficient killers

[@DougsDharma]

That's right, mindfulness can be a double-edged sword. In the abhidhamma it's considered a universally skillful state, so an efficient killer would by definition not be mindful. But in the early teachings it seems there is an understanding of mindfulness ("wrong mindfulness" or mindfulness that includes hindrances) that would allow such a thing.

[@geoffreydawson5430]

If you want an Anthropological critique of scientific evidence based mindfulness search - "If mindfulness is the answer, what is the question" via KZbin. It is a lecture by Dr Joanna Cook whom did social anthropological research with the team involved with the Mindful Nation UK report.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks Geoffrey!

[@geoffreydawson5430]

@@DougsDharma You are welcome. I wrote an Anthropological Honors degree using similar theorists (Foucault, Weber) critiquing the popular culture and uses of scientific evidence based mindfulness. As Dr Cook often comes back to she, as did Foucault, provides a genealogical critique. Also, as with Weber, its similarity to the Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, to put this into a political economic paradigm. Or as Slavoj Zizak currently calls its, if Max Weber was alive today to write another volume, The Taoist Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism. It has been years since I read Sartre's best seller, Being and Nothingness. Correct me if I am wrong but did these existential philosophers ever provide ethical arguments for their radical philosophies for the time? Sure the culture is far different now but the existential reality is no different only now we have modern psychology openly using Eastern philosophy rather than Western existential philosophy as a base. Which is positive in my view. The more we can incorporate value systems outside of Western academia the better I feel, coming from a social anthropological position. And can rest in the reality that the Buddha put forth that everything is constantly changing. Whether one chooses to take a more spiritual root or simple apply some techniques of Buddhism is all positive in my book. People have always taken the Buddhas teachings and adapted it to their culture, it is what people do, especially academics.

[@marcusbeast100]

For me, I could see mindfulness going a long way for a genuine company/corporation that cares for their employees in all means. I could see it helping their focus in work but also it extends past that, and the company could/would just be helping them in their day to day life by implementing mindfulness practice at work.

[@DougsDharma]

That's right, it can be of great benefit if it's done right.

[@vanessayeboah2175]

I must be missing something because I feel mindfulness can be useful in a work environment even in service jobs like waitors etc because to my understanding it’s about being sensitive to the realities of a situation and having the calmness to navigate it without getting too upset. For example I work as a Veterinary Nurse and I encounter difficult clients all the time but I just try to understand that I don’t know what their day has been like and if there’s something external that’s making them act the way they are. I try to calmly get to the resolution of the problem their presenting in a friendly way. It’s not about being ‘fake nice’ it’s about genuinely trying to help. You would be surprised how much anger you can satiate by being neutral and helpful. Then later I reflect on my own feelings and remind myself not to take what the client said personally so I can be at peace with myself as well.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes that makes a lot of sense Vanessa. The article was based on a study, so I'd assume that the people in that study had a different understanding of mindfulness, but it's difficult to say for sure.

[@RocketVet]

Mindfulness, completely by itself, is not the full picture of practice. For example; being more aware of the unpleasantness of the situation in those job examples might make someone less likely to want to do the task if mindfulness was the solitary point of practice yet if it was part of comprehensive practice then you would lessen aversion toward the unpleasant task or suffering rather than more strongly attach to and strengthen that aversion. This is why it’s important to practice properly and not just grab some McMindfulness.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, there is more to mindfulness than simply open awareness.

[@tiam4281]

This topic could go very deep and I think it will naturally anyways in those who do. There is a not so famous American Gyani Robert Adams who used to say often to the small group of student he had in his lifetime that the truth or the higher paths have nothing to do with making this world better or worse in your experience. Obviously he’s making this statement for a specific reason that hopefully a person who does not understand yet what he means or says that for would get turned off. The biggest thing that statement does is it touches on one of the most important requirements for enlightenment . Sincerity, Sincerity leads to purity, and of course what purity really is is true sincerity of motive of why you are even on a path towards what and for what reason? Of all things Thst are universal in the higher paths understanding what sincerity is and why higher paths have nothing in reality to do with how good or bad your common conscious experience is is one absolute cristicao thing which will naturally unfold on its own mainly through suffering but sincerity eventually leads one to no longer care about suffering or actually even achieving anything whatsoever. But sincerity also allows one to say but I love the idea of becoming a truly wonderful soul or having powers etc or being a very compassionate person and it also allows us to know where we are currently at and almost the moment we see these parts of us with true admittance and non judgement compassion we go beyond them.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks for your input T I am!

[@lilarios9717]

Heyyy I know this has nothing to do with this video in particular but I have a question that I hope you will be able to clarify for me. Can I have ambitions to change the world, let's say for example fighting against climate change or racism or take part in any other type of activist movement and still be a buddhist? Because I feel like Buddhism wants us to accept the world as it is and only work on our inner self. I feel like it tells us that dissatisfaction/suffering stems only from within and that the way the external world is has nothing to do with it, that we should not try to change it in any way because that will do no good. But i don't agree… I do think that changing the external world can be good. And that it can help with our suffering and our dissatisfaction a certain level….Lets take discrimination for example, is craving to be seen as equal inherently bad? Yes it will probably be unsatisfactory because every time we experience or witness a situation that involves discrimination it will displease us, it may even make us suffer. But are all dissatisfactions the same? should we try to eliminate all of them? Because if you think about it all activists movements must come from dissatisfaction of the way the world works. Slavery wouldn't have ended if people hadn't been unsatisfied by the way the world worked at that time. So in that case dissatisfaction with the world brought something good, it ended the suffering of thousands of people, and it all stemmed from a desire to change/work on the external world and not on our inner self. So do you think that you can be dissatisfied with a certain part of the world and want to change it so as to make it a better place for everyone and be a buddhist at the same time? Ps i hope this makes sense. I'm not a native english speaker and i sometimes have trouble trying to express my opinions.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, you make perfect sense Lila. I did an earlier video on this very topic: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eneXo5eHbKuFfLs

[@gabrielisrafil7236]

Make the jobs more ethical, and mindfulness will increase productivity at the same rate as you make it.

[@DougsDharma]

That could be, Gabriel!

[@dukelee3964]

Google loves to talk about mindfulness, let's talk about courage and discernment.

[@DougsDharma]

Well sure, there are many important virtues to discuss! 🙂

[@dukelee3964]

@@DougsDharma didn't mean to be flip, just feeling a little more revolutionary than acceptable woke, good work, and good luck.

[@potstab2875]

The conflict is mindfulness is mostly an ethical process, it is antithetic to most industries. Mindfulness is probably the antithesis to narcissism. IMO the world is heading toward narcissism at an alarming pace. Also I got fired because I was to mindful and tried to hard to be helpful and conscientious about doing things right. Someone that pretends to give a S@@t will always be faster than someone that takes the time to do the job right.

[@DougsDharma]

This certainly can happen potstab, thanks for your input.

[@GalaxiaTokyo]

I like the point of view that the Bhagavad Gita offers about this issue. As you may know, the Gita is about Krishna trying to convince Arjuna to fight in a war against his relatives that he doesn't want to fight because he thinks the suffering he will cause is too cruel. And one of the things Krishna says is that the merit of an action doesn't really depend on whether it involves causing suffering or not, or whether it has in the end good or bad consequences, but rather on the motivation with which you do it. If you seek to gain something, either materially or emotionally, the action is wrong; but if you act solely for the good of others, you are doing good: "4 One who shirks action does not attain freedom; no one can gain perfection by abstaining from work. 5 Indeed, there is no one who rests for even an instant; all creatures are driven to action by their own nature. 6 Those who abstain from action while allowing the mind to dwell on sensual pleasure cannot be called sincere spiritual aspirants. 7 But they excel who control their senses through the mind, using them for selfless service. 8 Fulfill all your duties; action is better than inaction. Even to maintain your body, Arjuna, you are obliged to act. 9 Selfish action imprisons the world. Act selflessly, without any thought of personal profit. 10 At the beginning, mankind and the obligation of selfless service were created together. “Through selfless service, you will always be fruitful and find the fulfillment of your desires”: this is the promise of the Creator. 11 Honor and cherish the devas as they honor and cherish you; through this honor and love you will attain the supreme good. 12 All human desires are fulfilled by the devas, who are pleased by selfless service. But anyone who enjoys the things given by the devas without offering selfless acts in return is a thief. 13 The spiritually minded, who eat in the spirit of service, are freed from all their sins; but the selfish, who prepare food for their own satisfaction, eat sin. 14 Living creatures are nourished by food, and food is nourished by rain; rain itself is the water of life, which comes from selfless worship and service. 15 Every selfless act, Arjuna, is born from Brahman, the eternal, infinite Godhead. Brahman is present in every act of service. 16 All life turns on this law, O Arjuna. Those who violate it, indulging the senses for their own pleasure and ignoring the needs of others, have wasted their life. 17 But those who realize the Self are always satisfied. Having found the source of joy and fulfillment, they no longer seek happiness from the external world. 18 They have nothing to gain or lose by any action; neither people nor things can affect their security. 19 Strive constantly to serve the welfare of the world; by devotion to selfless work one attains the supreme goal of life. 20 Do your work with the welfare of others always in mind." (Ch. 3.) So on the subject of the video, I think the important question is, why are you doing that particular job? If it's necessary to provide for your family, or because it's the only way for you to carry on, or because the job is an important service, then all the struggle and ugliness of it shouldn't burden you down. But if you work because you want a comfortable life, and all the fancy things of the modern world, or because is easier to ignore the evils of the world, then the cruelty and dishonesty of capitalism that you engage in is really just that.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes one's intention is paramount. I think mindfulness can help one to become more aware of one's own intentions over time.

[@perrybrissette7144]

Buddha sitting down with his Supervisor: "Siddartha, can I see you in my office please?...: Buddha: "Sure thing boss!"... Supervisor: "You know, Siddhi, we've been going over your numbers during the board meeting last week... well, it just doesn't seem like you're making your number... we're gonna have to let ya go.... I'm sorry to say, this is your last day here at Acme."

[@DougsDharma]

😄

[@markbrad123]

True there are a lot of jobs that are dependent on ignorance, cognitive dissonance, and stupidity rather than mindfulness and compassion. The answer is find a better job.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, but I also think we need to keep in mind that for many people it may be difficult to do so.

[@sayalishahare9388]

Due to becoz of my mindfulness I might be lost my friend and relative

[@DougsDharma]

Yes that can happen too sometimes Sayali.

[@ashokbramhane5064]

Sir🙏👉 Dr.B.R.Ambedkar The author of the Indian constitution.who was hindu ,but he gave Buddhism to 5 lakh people in 1956 and himself too....today in india buddhist population is 10 million ....why did he turn to Buddhism...why not other riligions,, please make a video on it....🙏🙏🙏DR.B.R. Ambedkar used to know 11 Language ....he was one of the best educated people of India at that time...who had 32 degrees he wrote the constitution of India .....🙏🙏🙏I hope that you will extract all the information about DR.Ambedkar and make a video of him🙏🙏🙏

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks, already did awhile ago! kzbin.info/www/bejne/p52rkKSfmqiaeaM

[@ashokbramhane5064]

@@DougsDharma Nice video sir🙏🙏🙏you are great sir ....you are working alone like a big organization ...... Hope you will always share or spred love, knowledge.....for save world ❤️🙏

[@bobbyandersson3382]

Mindfullness saves Galaxies!

[@DougsDharma]

😆 Maybe so!

[@user-ic4ce8xb5v]

🙏

[@DougsDharma]

🙏🙂

[@mattrkelly]

people think sales is generally a non-buddhist job... i would say it is the only buddhist job! You do not make sales if you're inauthentic.

[@DougsDharma]

Interesting, that makes a lot of sense Matt. I do think that skilled salespeople should be authentic to be credible. But then they also need to find a product or service that they genuinely believe in. Sales is a really hard job!

[@mattrkelly]

@@DougsDharma yes you have to have a tight morality and people skills.... compassion and wisdom.

[@pavanatanaya]

Using mindfulness to bleach your public image, coupled with unethical behavior is ever-present in the yoga world. For profit yoga studios are a prime example. Prakriti serves Purusha. Using Purusha as a marketing tool leads to ethical lapses

[@DougsDharma]

Yes it can happen anyplace. While we are all only human and so make mistakes, we have to be careful of people who manipulate others for their own ends.

[@xfloodcasual8124]

Let's be honest : A corporation doesn't do a single thing unless its directly connected to profits.

[@DougsDharma]

I think this is true of any livelihood. Without profit, a livelihood isn't sustainable.

[@xfloodcasual8124]

@@DougsDharma Well, to be clear, individuals can balance profit with spiritual wholeness. Big corporations do not need to; their motives are usually one-dimensional.

[@DougsDharma]

@@xfloodcasual8124 True!

[@hemi7175]

Hi

[@DougsDharma]

👋

[@urrrccckostan]

I got an opportunity to practice mindfulness when, 1/3 of the way through, your video was interrupted by an ad, “HI, I’M TONY ROBBINS...” haha Reactivity mitigated thanks to years of practice.🤓

[@DougsDharma]

😄 Sorry for the interruption! 😄

[@Soiedelune]

I am a little puzzled by this discussion. Maybe I don't understand mindfulness in the same way but I don't see the point made in this video as a binary choice. If the aim is to get us to our authentic selves, to be aware of life and live it in the moment and we achieve this, then we will also tap into the compassion of our innate selves. Quite frankly, not a bad thing when dealing with irate and angry customers in the service and sales industries. Once we are our authentic selves, if we realize that our job is disempowering us or rendering us unhappy and we leave it to follow our heart, then it is also a massive win. We live in the world we live in, warts and all; not in a make believe one. Therefore, we have to ensure, first and foremost that we are grounded, Mulhadhara, the root support of earth energy, of sustenance and of family. Even the top Zen Buddhist monks promote their teachings and request donations to keep their organizations afloat. The modern world is not an anathema to mindfulness. Anyone studying it on any level can only enhance humankind by practicing it in the every day. Even with my limited knowledge of mindfulness, I certainly try. Just do it. Don't think and analyze it so much. Isn't that what it teaches us?

[@DougsDharma]

Well I think this may turn on different understandings of what authenticity amounts to. In the article I take it that authenticity means following through with what you're actually feeling at the time, which probably wouldn't mean compassion, though they don't give examples so it's hard to be sure.

[@sugarfree1894]

Mindfulness can make you much better at whatever you do, but it also makes it harder to turn a blind eye to unethical systems. Hey, can't have it all!

[@DougsDharma]

Yup, well said SugarFree!

[@Nooneself]

The overwhelming neuroscience literature (not psychology literature) indicates that mindfulness helps you deal skillfully and authentically with difficult, angry customers and concurrently maintain one's equanimity. Best Wishes

[@DougsDharma]

I would think so, though clearly more study is required.

[@sidecardude]

same thing can be said for relationships, are you meditating to cover up your crappy relationship????

[@DougsDharma]

True, though in this case we'd tend to think that meditation would uncover the fact that the relationship was crappy.

[@sidecardude]

@@DougsDharma Hopefully that would be the case, nice vid sir.....

[@wolfk2258]

I don't buy it. I read the article. There's no links to the questionnaire they used or studies. Making any conclusions based on this seems foolish. There's so many questions and issues with this article. First, the questionnaire, they assess mindfulness based on "whether they tended to be more attentive or more rushed while performing work activities, and the extent to which they were able to resist temptations and distractions". Is this mindfulness they're assessing with the survey or ADD? And why would someone with ADD-like mindfulness do *better* in public service jobs? Was this self-report questionnaire their own instrument or has it been used in other studies to measure mindfulness? Next, the jobs themselves. How bad were the jobs? Were the more mindful participants equal in job satisfaction to the nonmindful participants? If not, maybe they're measuring job satisfaction. What about length of time spent on the job? Many times new people on the stressful job may not have burnout. Did they account for that? I don't think so. Had the people with more mindfulness had any course or training in mindfulness or were they always this way? Maybe it's a personality thing rather than a mindfulness training issue. I think their mistake is to assume the only difference in these more mindful reflective people vis-a-vis the nonmindful people is that they're more mindful and reflective. Maybe not. If the survey really measures mindfulness ( I doubt it) -- then perhaps a higher degree of mindfulness is correlated with reflection and intelligence. These people generally might be unsatisfied with terrible jobs that force them to be inauthentic. If you're working a soul-sucking job and you're a more reflective type, you're perhaps liable to be more dissatisfied. This could be good in you implementing a job change. This is all no surprise. Researchers Good on getting published in Harvard Business Review though. Next Water is Wet. It seems a bit unfair and elitist to say that sales people and waiter jobs force them to perform inauthentically. Whereas I suppose the researchers jobs and social scientists in general would score very high. LOL. Good sales people I know are very authentic. If a waitress or waiter had to smile when I complain about a cockroach in my soup -- I would think there's a problem. Any job that deals with the public may have this problem. Any job that has a boss may have these issues. There's a lot of soul-sucking jobs out there. If I were to grade the Ph.D. researchers themselves in a blind "authenticity" test with waiters, salespeople and others on authenticity -- I don't know if the authors would come out ahead I really don't. I've known a lot of college professors and they don't strike me as being inherently more authentic. Maybe less so, since they talk a lot of sh*t in an authoritative manner without having the evidence to back it all up.

[@DougsDharma]

Could be, you're certainly right that to know the details in any depth we'd need to know the study and its design and statistical analysis and so on.

[@ForeverMasterless]

huh, weird. I would've thought the opposite would be the case. When serving a difficult customer, for instance. I would think mindfulness would increase your patience and compassion for the difficult person and help you see their innate humanity and see that they don't really understand their own actions or how they are impacting others. I thought you were going to go in the direction of unethical practices of capitalism and no longer being able to work for a company that objectively makes people's lives worse.

[@DougsDharma]

Well in the article they mention people having to behave inauthentically, though that can take many forms. Unfortunately they don't give actual examples of individual cases.

[@nellie2m]

An enlightened population is in direct conflict with modern capitalism.

[@Nijala]

The one who wrote that article seriously needs to hear DJKR or read one of his book, What makes you not a Buddhist

[@jandewitt-harris1133]

Wow. This article seems to totally go against what mindfulness is. Totally missed the point of mindfulness. I find mindfulness allows me to recognize my true feelings, knowledge them, mindfulling listen to the other person, and be genuine. This allows me to not cover up my anger, but address it, not be inauthentic. "Invite the emotions in, just don't serve them tea." As a salesperson for decades, mindfulness is EXACTLY what is needed. This seems to be typical western view trying to alter and make an eastern practice fit our western way of thinking. 🙏🏼

[@DougsDharma]

Interesting, thanks Jan. The article was based upon a study of participants so it would be interesting to know their own feelings about what mindfulness is.

[@rolijain3985]

Another news channel on Buddha , where there is mind talking and wondering why should I give up thinking ? Echert Tolle , Thich Nhat Hanh speak from that place of discovery

[@cheyennealvis7899]

oh it seems they misunderstood. Mindfulness increases compassion and so as a result when you're a customer service person you become even more empathetic and caring toward the client. So if you're a waiter and a customer is angry or frustrated you empathize with them completely and take their side. And in the process calm Them down as well. From Doug's body language I can tell he deals with a great deal of anxiety. he has a tight personality and is extremely wound up. his jaw is too tight. he would easily be able to let go of it all if he just viewed himself from the I AM state.

[@DougsDharma]

😄Thanks for your diagnosis!

[@cheyennealvis7899]

@@DougsDharma no problem. just sit and know that 'you are' the 'I AM' without words. that is all that is needed. Soon you will arrive at your natural absolute state. Seekers of enlightenment are no different than dogs trying to catch their own tail. only when they bite it do they come to realize it always belonged to them. deep down you know this conversation is no different from your left pinkie finger having a conversation with your right pinkie finger. on the surface they may look like two separate unique distinct individuals but when they zoom back they realize that they're both actually Doug. are you and I two distinct individuals? yes. Are we then also the 'I AM' without words and eventually the point beyond that? yes. we are that too. We're Doug's individual pinkies having this conversation. And we're both Doug too. don't seek enlightenment. don't work to attain it. Just know and realize the truth. That you are Doug, sure, BUT 'you are' also the 'I AM' without words. Be there now (or at least be that for 10 to 20 minutes a day). And soon you will arrive at your natural Absolute state. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5yUlYBohrCMqtU also try meditating in the 'I AM' state. it's Amazing!!

[@rolijain3985]

You are confused and lost. There are no questions to answer in mindfulness. Take an empty pot and if you see everything in it, your discovery is complete. If you want to attain enlightenment, there is nothing to attain. You DISCOVER it where you are 😀