Why Do We Count the Breaths in Meditation? Early Buddhist Origins

For many of us, meditation involves a practice of counting the breaths. But it wasn't originally practiced that way. We'll look at the development of the practice of counting the breaths through some of its earliest written descriptions. Then we'll consider why the practice may have originated.
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✅ Video mentioned:
The Five Hindrances to Meditation: "Armies of Māra" -- • The Five Hindrances to...
✅ Books mentioned:
Anālayo, Mindfulness of Breathing (Windhorse, 2019), pp. 231-233. -- amzn.to/3xff00P
The Path of Freedom (Vimuttimagga) www.ahandfulofleaves.org/docum... pp. 159-160.
P.V. Bapat, Vimuttimagga and Visuddhimagga, A Comparative Study archive.org/details/Vimuttima...
Ñāṇamoli (trans.) The Path of Purification (Visuddhimagga) pp. 271ff -- amzn.to/3wojbHC
Leo Pruden (trans. of De La Vallée Poussin) Abhidharmakośabhāṣyam -- amzn.to/3v5knOQ
✅ Other literature mentioned:
Anālayo, “How the Steps of Mindfulness of Breathing Decreased from Sixteen to Two,” in Illuminating the Dharma: Buddhist Studies in Honour of Venerable Professor KL Dhammajoti, Toshiichi Endo (ed.) (Centre of Buddhist Studies, U. Hong Kong, 2021).
Anālayo, “The Treatise on the Path to Liberation (解脫道論) and the Visuddhimagga” www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hambu...
Florin Deleanu, “Mindfulness of Breathing in the Dhyāna Sūtras” ahandfulofleaves.files.wordpr...
00:00 Intro
02:17 When Counting Began
03:01 The Vimuttimagga
06:35 The Visuddhimagga
13:13 Abhidharmakośabhāsyam
14:56 Why counting may have developed
18:46 Problems with counting
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[@DougsDharma]

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[@zemiFTW]

"... thoughts get excited by the cramped space" this is very key i think

[@DougsDharma]

Yes it's kind of neat!

[@simonooi2544]

My first mediation class was Zen. We were sit cross legged facing the wall and focus on counting from 1 to 10 with every in and out breath. If our posture become unnatural or fell asleep the Zen master with hit on our back with a special bamboo stick to wake us up to sit upright. Very tough to even sit for 5 minutes. It needs lot of patience and determination to reach one hour in one sitting. Oh those inconceivable hard times!

[@DougsDharma]

Yes the keisaku, I remember it well from a Zen retreat I had many years ago. I found it invigorating in that it woke me up when I began to doze off or when my back started hurting. 😄

[@gra6649]

Sitting for an hour is very hard. Maybe you should try sitting for 30 minutes, and if you want to do more, get up, and walk around for 5 minutes, and then start again.

[@krabmane1304]

5:54 I thought this idea of miscounting or forgetting was very funny. I thought "how could I possibly mess up counting to 5?" Of course when I tried it myself, my mind began wandering almost instantly, and I forgot what number I was on. It's not so easy after all !

[@DougsDharma]

Yes so interesting how the mind works!

[@Dragon_With_Matches]

Great video, Doug! A while back I tried counting the breath and found after some experimentation that it’s useful for me when I’m struggling to settle in and stay focused. But like you mentioned, I found that I could frequently keep the count going properly and still be lost in my thoughts and fantasies. Regretfully, I haven’t been keeping up with my practice for some time now, I’m trying to get myself motivated to get back into it again.

[@DougsDharma]

Ah well if I can be of help by providing motivation, I’ll do so! 😄

[@anthonychan3336]

Thank you this is very helpful. From the guy who have the tendency to count from 1-20.

[@DougsDharma]

😄Whatever works for you!

[@VIJENDRAKUMAR-ur1fd]

Thank you sir for letting us know these little secrets about meditation. It's very hard to get this million-dollar information for me on my doorsteps without doing any research of our own. Once again Thank you...Thank you... You doing great work for the community.

[@DougsDharma]

You're most welcome! 🙏🙂

[@michaelm108]

I like the counting, because it enables me to mindfully connect to my breathing all day

[@DougsDharma]

Yes it can be a very helpful practice!

[@QuyNguyen-lm1gq]

Thank you so much for this video. As a lay person, I have found it extremely difficult to control negative emotions and the so called monkey mind. I hope this method may help in keeping the wandering mind settled, but I think it requires lots of practice and patience !

[@DougsDharma]

Yes it certainly requires patience and practice! Eventually you will become more at ease with the monkey mind and so it becomes less troublesome, even if it's still there ... 😄

[@AtlasVistas]

Thanks for this Doug, this is the first video of yours I have watched and it’s absolutely brilliant! I’d definitely class myself as quite a slow beginner, I still find counting breaths extremely useful. However I found your mention of mixing up practices to avoid them becoming stale really really interesting! You have definitely inspired me to go deeper with my practice and experience new methods. Thanks again! ❤🙏

[@DougsDharma]

Wonderful, thanks and welcome! 🙏😊

[@AtlasVistas]

@@DougsDharma 😍🙏.

[@JohnAngelori]

Very useful. Thank you Doug.

[@DougsDharma]

My pleasure, John!

[@brandonwilliams8113]

Love the content🙏

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks Brandon! 🙏

[@chriskaplan6109]

Insightful as always, thank you Doug. Your humble and wise approach is always appreciated 🙏

[@DougsDharma]

My pleasure, Chris. 🙏

[@soryachantreareaksmey4283]

Thank you Sir for your beautiful video 🕊️💓🕊️ I have tried it and the result was amazing. I found myself in a space and I could hardly see and feel myself or body except air and hole of space. It was like I was floating in space, though I could hear real sounds of stuff around me. In oder to reach this state of mind, first I followed my breathe in and out at my nose with all my awareness. Then there were many thoughts appeared but I didn't care about them and turned my concentration to the flow of air in and out. Then again I felt very sleepy but I tried to overcome it and continued to focus on the air in and out at my nose. After awhile the breathe went shorter and shorter as if I was about to die. But I didn't care or try to change it. I just let it be. Finally my breathe in and out stop automatically. I was shocked then and asked myself What's happening?. Am I dying? Of course not, instead I have the finest air of breathe in my body. I observed my air in my body but I could see as if it was a space and my mind seemed to be in the middle, no hatred ....ECT. It was a pleasure I have never found in my life. When I stopped it, I could see I had been sitting for nealy two hours unconsciously.

[@DougsDharma]

Great, thanks for your report Sorya!

[@dhammaboy1203]

This was well timed thank you Doug! Presently, I am re-attempting a project I had some small success with some years ago learning - Brasington-style Jhana’s. So after many years of ‘dry’ Vipassana I’ve returned to counting breaths to deepen access concentration & cultivate the mind for Jhana. Im going to apply Buddhagosa’s suggestions for counting.

[@DougsDharma]

Sounds great! I wish you success. 🙏

[@lazitazen6882]

Thank you very much for this video 🌷So very interesting...I now understand why Thich Nhat Hanh never counts the breaths ...

[@DougsDharma]

My pleasure Lazita! 🙏

[@nirvana4061]

Useful hack!

[@DougsDharma]

Yes! 🙂

[@Johnoines]

I must be slow too. I like to count to 10 for a while before I switch to just focusing on the breath without counting.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes join the club!

[@stevenponte6655]

I am very late to this post but great video. I dont think "dull faculties" should be taken as slow. I used to study with an Indian meditation guru who often said that you should find the meditation practice that is most suited to you. Counting breath is great if you have a strong kinesthetic sense, particularly around your nose. However, many people dont. And if you dont, then you might be more suited to sound (mantra), or visualisation etc. This could be seen as "dull faculties". He also said that sometimes focussing on counting overshadows the focus on the breath and the count ends up being used a "mantra" of sorts. Interesting stuff.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, it is interesting. Agreed, find the practice that's most suited to you. Don't worry if others do it differently or by quicker means.

[@bobg.7976]

Very interesting, Doug, in one of his podcasts Ajahn Sona mentions a book "The Satipatthana Wars". To count or not to count.....

[@DougsDharma]

Wow I didn't know there were such deep disagreements over Satipaṭṭhāna ...

[@michaelhanford8139]

Not to take away from the quality of breath practice nor the advice to not try to control the breath, when my mind is extra restless i find that controlling my breath to be longer and more smooth with each in & out breath. Tbh, i dont think counting is a technique for slow or weak meditators nor strictly a beginner practice as the counting leads the mind into samadhi which is the goal do meditation...doesn't matter *how* you get into samadhi. it matters that we do. ❤️ #there'sno.one.rightway

[@westsidesmitty1]

💗!! My favorite of all the aspects of Buddha Dharma that you cover. Practicing in the Theravada lineage, I am unlikely to ever read the Yogacarabhumi Sastra (just as a practical matter- I'm certainly interested in all developments in Buddhist thought). But the claim anapanasati is for dullards seems patently unsound, given that it was the preferred meditation object of The Buddha! I guess it is like the discussion within Theravada about the difference between Samatha and Vippassana, and where the 16 stages fit in. To me, the last tetrad of the Anapanasati Sutta is clearly ''insight'' meditation. With the pandemic, I have been frustrated in my goal to make a retreat and learn the Vipassana technique from a master. But knowing that the Buddha preferred anapanasatti (and that it leads to the ''seven factors of enlightenment''), well, let's just say, I'm FULLY satisfied (and have my hands full) using breath as my meditation object! In cases where I am really unable to concentrate, I still fall back on counting, then flow to labeling (in and out), and finally to just experiencing the sensation of breathing. Counting is great for the ''worst case scenarios''! Ultimately, if one can't use mindfulness in the absolute worst moments, then, perhaps one would be better off with prayer or mantra practices. I absolutely loved your comment about finding, after several years, that one can successfully count even as monkey mind runs wild. Counting DOES have its limits! LOVE this ''nuts and bolts'' category of your far ranging expositions! Metta! P.S. It would be great to hear your teaching on the ''4 step'' method (Counting, Connection, Contacting, Fixing) as I have never encountered it before.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks Smitty! Yes I hadn't heard about that "four step" method either. If I can find more about it I'll do a video.

[@westsidesmitty1]

@@DougsDharma Many Thanks!

[@cmusic54able]

Great video Doug! Have you heard of Bhante Vimalaramsi and his claims about the early suttas? If not I highly recommend the book "The Path to Nibanna". Thanks!

[@DougsDharma]

I know of him but haven't read his book.

[@firstname7769]

From a practical POV it seems to me that counting helps you keep your mind/thoughts from straying.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes I agree. It can be very useful.

[@user-sl6gn1ss8p]

I haven't studied or practiced much on meditation, but I like to try to just kind of know the number without explicitly counting, and start again if I feel I don't. I think I wander off a bit more at the start doing this, but that it eventually gets me more focused and also kind of reinforces the whole acknowledging thoughts without fixating on them stuff

[@DougsDharma]

Whatever works for you! Yes I think counting can help us not to fixate too much on other thoughts as they arise.

[@5piles]

the object is the tactile sensation of the breath counting it is just a way to freshen vividness, so that we may then return to the object correctly consider 1 completed when the out-breath pause in-breath is ended and you begin the beginning of the next out-breath

[@DougsDharma]

Yes that's one way to look at it, thanks!

[@bobg.7976]

Another variation, which I learned from senior teachers at SFZC (I don't know if Suzuki Roshi taught them this) is to focus on the hiatus and its sensation at the hara between the outbreath and in-breath. Many lose their focus and get distracted at this place and moment, as there are subtle shifts in muscle and abdominal sensations that can trigger mental distraction- at least for me.

[@jupiterinaries6150]

I was taught by a Theravadan monk to just follow the breath. He never mentioned counting the breath but just to breath naturally without trying to control the breathing.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes that's another common practice. Just follow the breath without trying to control it.

[@michaelhanford8139]

When my mind wants a bone to chew on, i find counting helps. The counting goes away on its own as samadhi comes on. Counting in sets 1 in, 1 out; 1, 2; ... 1, 9; 2, 1; 2, 2 ... makes for a minimum of brain power.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes it can help keep the mind occupied for awhile.

[@gerhardbraatz6305]

We repeat the mantra, rising, falling to concentrate on the breath , to be in the present moment.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes that can work too!

[@user-ic4ce8xb5v]

🙏

[@DougsDharma]

🙏🙂

[@xiaomaozen]

😊🙏🏻

[@DougsDharma]

🙏😊

[@alicehallam8247]

Normal breathing for me in practice is 4 in 3 pause 5 exhale. My natural rhythm.

[@DougsDharma]

Sure, if it works for you then that's great!

[@lartorgames]

Can you please answer me on sitting posture cause my master is teaching me to do Chan. It’s comes to my question of interlocking the legs or one foot on top one another which has come to troubling to mind why their two different siting posture. My master has not really ask question so I want to ask if you had any answers Thanks for always helping know Buddhism in a different way of point of view.

[@DougsDharma]

I can't say for sure. In the early texts it only mentions to sit down with legs crossed, but it also says you can meditate while standing, lying down, or walking. So I don't think it really should matter, but perhaps your master has another idea.

[@iainhughes2998]

I do mantra practice the reason why I do it is because I can see the habits my mind creates then I can see through them please what ever you do don't try and become holy

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks Iain, no worries I'm certainly not going to try to become holy! 😄

[@iainhughes2998]

@@DougsDharma 🤣

[@scottmottram4607]

Thanks for the video! Is there any clarity or guidance on eyes open or closed ? 🙏

[@DougsDharma]

It's not mentioned in the early texts. Some traditions (Theravāda in particular) tend to practice with eyes closed, others (such as Zen) with eyes slightly open. Id don't think it really matters.

[@scottmottram4607]

@@DougsDharma thank you kindly 🙏

[@martynb901]

What starting point is used to define the "common era"?

[@DougsDharma]

Here's Wiki: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Era

[@gra6649]

First I'd like to apologize if any of my comments stepped on anybody's toes. I all too often fall victim to my own exuberance. I learned the counting thing from The Three Pillars of Zen. In that book they talk about three technics for counting the breaths. Counting both in, and out breaths, then, only the in breaths, and finally only the out breaths. After one has done this for a few years, (No hurry) one can just follow the breaths, and so on. One of the cool thing about just counting the breaths is that there is nothing holy, mystical, or magical about numbers. They are just numbers. And they are a great way to gauge ones concentration. If one ends up at, lets say 35, it's a good indication that ones focus can use a little sharpening.

[@DougsDharma]

Right, these can be very good practices! I use them all the time.

[@ricklanders]

I could never get any calmness whatsoever from counting. The point of anapanasati, it seems to me, is to be aware of the breath, not to count them, and I sincerely doubt the Buddha would have presented anapanasati as he did (ie without mentioning counting) if he advocated the practice. He might even have encountered (no pun) it in his spiritual wanderings before finding the middle way, and so then why would he not have mentioned it if he supported it? Another point brought up in the video regarded counting more than 10 leading to excessive focus on the numbers. But apparently, in fact, this can be an issue even with a lower count. Ajahn Maha Bua, Ajahn Chah, and I believe Ajahn Man, if not others, recommend using the meditation word "Buddho," aligning it with the breath if necessary such that one says the first syllable on the inbreath, and the second on the outbreath. In discussing this practice, Ajahn Martin Piyadhammo says that at some point one or the other of these (the breath or the Buddho) will tend to become the predominant focus of the mind, and one should then shift exclusively at that point to whichever one it happens to be for the remainder of the session. So the obvious things to note here are that 1) if it can happen with what is essentially merely a two-number count (ie the two syllables of Buddho) then clearly it can happen with any amount of numbers (over one at least if we're being super literal, lol) and 2) if it does happen with the numbers, how is one then going to proceed with only numbers and no breath? Just keep counting in your head tethered to nothing? It doesn't seem to make sense or to be conducive to one-pointedness - almost by definition, lol. Well maybe we can call it 5- or 10-pointedness, hahah. One of course could protest that saying Buddho isn't strictly speaking textual, but somehow it seems closer to the spirit of the Buddha's intention in developing one-pointedness than multiple numbers. But I suppose whatever works for the individual person ultimately is the best method. I can only say I tried counting via zen teachings for years and could never get anywhere with it. It was actually even detrimental, as I had the same experience described in the video, namely that the ugly (to my mind) counting was just going on at some sub-surface level while all kinds of thoughts were then still proliferating. A very uncomfortable and unpleasant experience, actually. And I don't think that is what the Buddha was aiming for!

[@rin-ix6ub]

sir do you have a video showing how to do amitabha meditation

[@DougsDharma]

My videos tend to be about early Buddhism, and Amitabha is from a later tradition. I may do a video on it eventually!

[@rin-ix6ub]

@@DougsDharma thank for your answer sir

[@rinconesxdescubrir5105]

8:48

[@bobbyandersson3382]

Breath in short and Breath in long... Anapanasati 🙏🏽

[@DougsDharma]

🙏🙂

[@bobbyandersson3382]

Doug... Your doing well. How can people donate via Crypto as some dont really like the "idea" of "money" so to speak... Sudhu 😊

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks Bobby! I don't think PayPal takes crypto currency yet ... that would be the only way for now ...

[@tormunnvii3317]

The question is; did they intend counting the in and out breaths separately or together? 😏. I would suspect it was the latter, as 5 is an odd number, so you would miss an “out” breath each time…not that it really matters 😅🥸

[@DougsDharma]

Yes I usually count the in breath and out breath as two separate numbers, but one can also count in-and-out as one number.

[@blackhunk2265]

Which meditation method did buddha diacovered and practiced by which he atained enlightment?

[@DougsDharma]

Well he practiced with a number of them, including mindfulness and concentration (jhāna). Arguably his attainment came through insight.

[@imankasthuri6527]

Anapanasathi meditation

[@sonamtshering194]

I guess if you properly practice the breath counting meditation it would help in developing patience as well

[@DougsDharma]

Yes I guess that's true. I think generally meditation helps with patience in that we have to be patient with our own monkey minds in order to be able to sit quietly for half an hour or more! 😄

[@TheWayOfRespectAndKindness]

Funny how let go means wait a minute. Make up your mind. Did you create it? No. Can you change it? Yes

[@DougsDharma]

😄

[@BabishanMascarenhas]

5:45 or is it to count 1-10 for 5 times?

[@DougsDharma]

As I understand it, it's to count either from 1-5, 1-6, 1-7, 1-8, 1-9, or 1-10. Whatever you prefer.

[@blackhunk2265]

Namo Buddhay

[@DougsDharma]

🙏🙂

[@mickparly]

My God, this man he really chats a lot before reaching a conclusion/explanation on why we shall count when following the breath in mindfulness meditation. And the he is even not able to really tell us why it is necessary.

[@JohnMiller-bs2ln]

Is there more Canonical Buddhist literature regarding individuals that are slow, insane, idiotic, senile, have suffered head injuries, etc?

[@DougsDharma]

I'm not sure John. It's something I'll keep a look out for, but if there is some, it's not much.

[@JohnMiller-bs2ln]

@@DougsDharma Thank you sir!

[@JohnMiller-bs2ln]

@@DougsDharma Seems a bit odd though considering how around 1-2% of the human population has noticable problems and that the vast majority of people that make it into old age (although that pool would have been signifficantly smaller in the buddha's day) will go dull.

[@sbamatsa989]

Is it wrong to think of the practice as a career ?

[@sbamatsa989]

At the time the Buddha used it to get food, even of that's not essentially why it was started. But it became something valuable, something unable to live without. So it became a "career", for him until it wasn't ( his extinguishment being the reason ). So to teach individuals who wanted to be taught, a syllabus had to be taught.. But truthfully speaking, anyone individual ( if the syllabus did not exist ) could become a "buddha", with each individual tailoring a practice for themselves and individuals in a similar situation

[@sbamatsa989]

To continue further, the 16 steps could not be accomplished in a modern or so society, especially due to its fast-paced-ness. Imagine being told, "find peace! It only takes 16 steps!" I'd assume that an individual would be reluctant to proceeding with the practice. I think k they'd see it as "getting in the way ", even though the practice is kind of "the way".

[@sbamatsa989]

Therefore developments such as counting( and so forth ), needed to be developed to combat such cases.. I hope I'm making sense

[@DougsDharma]

Sure, I think framing it as a career makes the most sense if one decides to become a monastic.