Mini Chlorinator Units Pushed to Their Limits - ElementalMaker

[@Enjoymentboy]

This was fortuitous timing. I said to myself last year "If ElementalMaker doesn't post a new video by mid-day on January 17th I will have to unsubscribe". Talk about getting it in just in the nick of time. Glad to see Bill let you out and hope the Stockholm Syndrome isn't too intense. :)

[@theterribleanimator1793]

If he wants to, i do have a ball gag and a radiator, just call me for a good time chemistry man.

[@hanleypc]

The coating on the second one with the round cathode almost certainly is MMO. I cut the round pin off and used the MMO electrode to electrolise some copper sulphate to sulphuric acid along with some copper pipe as a cathode. MMO holds up well in acid.

[@ElementalMaker]

Awesome! I've been meaning to try it to make sulfuric from copper sulfate, I wasn't sure if mmo would hold up but I'm glad to hear it works!

[@WaffleStaffel]

​@@ElementalMaker I got one of those spray-bottle hypochlorite generators ($18), and the electrode is matte black and pretty good size. I haven't used it for chlorite yet, but I've run several batches of salt water and it still looks pristine. I haven't always rinsed it out right away.

[@lautaromorales2903]

I think it needs to be an iridium-tantalum electrode, because the iridium-ruthenium electrode liberates ruthenium tetroxide in the solution when evolves oxygen due to low chloride levels in the solution

[@lautaromorales2903]

Ruthenium tetroxide it's pretty toxic

[@JB-Was-Here]

Sorry to hear about the remodeling horrors but glad you're back making videos. I know I can speak for most when I say that we've missed you sharing your projects and colorful commentary with us! 👍👍👍

[@bpark10001]

I toured factory where ammonium perchlorate is made for the space shuttle main engines. The chlorate cell consists of a 3" piece of copper tube 3' long for the cathode, capped on the ends with in & out hoses. The anode is a carbon rod, internally set concentrically, coated with lead oxide. The manufacture of the lead oxide coating is a trade secret. (I saw trash pile with 1000's of "dead" anodes.) The clearance between the electrodes is about 1/16". Starting chemical is saturated salt solution (guy claims potassium salt will not go to perchlorate.) 10 amps flows through each cell. Cells are connected in sets or 10 in parallel, & these sets are connected in series until 400 volts of voltage is needed from a huge transformer/rectifier. Each sell has caps on its ends & Tygon tubing about 1/2" diameter is for supply & output. What I could not determine is how the current is prevented from flowing the "wrong way" through all the tubing interconnections which contain conducting liquid. The entire cell array is mounted on huge fiberglass insulating structure. No points reachable by human are more than a few volts different, people routinely can do maintenance on cells (exchanging bad ones, etc.) WHILE array is running! A large pump circulates the salt solution through 1000's of the cells & a main holding tank at a FAST pace. Processing is done in batches, each one requiring days to process. Chloride is processed all the way to perchlorate in 1 step in the same cells. Apparently the lead oxide is the "magic" that allows this to happen. Other manufacturers have to make the chlorate to perchlorate step in separate set of cells. The whole cell array room stinks of chlorine (it diffuses through the miles of Tygon tubing). The problem is that no matter how long you run, chlorates will be present. Some chemicals are added after the batch is done to reduce the chlorates back to chloride, leaving the perchlorates alone. Then other chemicals must be added to precipitate out those chemicals (I recall barium was used in this step). Then HCL & ammonia are added to precipitate NH4ClO4 as temperature swings from boiling to freezing in controlled way in a crystallizer vessel to make proper crystal size. These go through giant rotating pipe (like cement kiln) to dry & passed through stack of graded sifter stack into barrels. Remaining solution is boiled down & added to the next batch The mistake you made was turning off the current. NEVER turn off the current without immediately disassembling the cell, or the cathode will be eaten!

[@Sniperboy5551]

That’s far too detailed to be made up

[@darkxxhimxxlight]

Oh, am i glad to see you back. Hope you and the fam are doing good.

[@johnwiley8417]

Regarding chlorate primers... Easiest way I found to clean your firearm after firing chlorate primers is to start with patches soaked in water, then squeezed out, run down the barrel with a jag. Then, the rest of your cleaning and oiling regimen, as usual. The water dampened patch clears the water soluble potassium chloride, where gun oil, Ed's Red, Break Free CLP, (petro based) etc. just leaves it corroding your barrel. (But, what about the rest of your gun??? If you have combustion gasses going anywhere other than down the barrel, you have bigger problems than corrosion, or a revolver.)

[@ElementalMaker]

I recall hearing how Russian soldiers used to remove the bolts if their mosins and piss down the barrel to dissolve the salts. I'd imagine urine might be worse but still a fun war story.

[@BlueEyedColonizer]

Where you been brother? We've missed our science pimp!

[@jason0870]

Hey glad to see you back Mr.ElementelMaker. I have missed you and your epic video productions in addition you always have cool + interesting views on things.

[@cavemaneca]

Didn't get a notification, but this still showed up in my recommendations luckily. Glad to see you've been able to get some more time finally.

[@samwise3268]

These videos are so easy to listen to, your voice is amazing, and I could watch these for hours

[@TheWolfsfang1]

Missed ya!!! Been so busy I can't keep up with all the KZbin channels I've loved over the years. Glad you're back, hope you've enjoyed your time away, hope to see more from you!!

[@matthewellisor5835]

Happy New Year! You were missed but I sure feel ya on the home remodeling. (And the smell in the wall.)

[@ArizonaAdam]

Happy New year ElementalMaker!!! Glad to see you back bud! It sure has been awhile. Looking forward to some new uploads! Be well bud!

[@ElementalMaker]

Happy new year to you as well!

[@fusspawn]

I was just thinking and checking the channel yesterday wondering if you had posted recently. Hope life is treating you well. Glad to see your back \o/

[@Frank-bc8gg]

I subscribed to you during the primer crisis because I was getting desperate and was considering reloading primers but I really like your content!

[@davidjones8942]

Yep, he has tons of awesome content..... The purple gummy worm fuses are still my favorite! 😍

[@tomjohns8498]

Hi ya so pleased to see you back, hope your family 👪 are getting enough sleep,

[@bobedwards8896]

FINALLY... feels like its been years since your last video, thanks for uploading!

[@gutsngorrrr]

Great to see you back, alway love your videos.

[@chemistryofquestionablequa6252]

I bought a couple of the round ones and ran them to failure at 2.1a. I got a few pounds of kclo3 from them. They corrode at the connection with the cord. I also have an mmo electrode set and a platinized electrode set Electrochemistry is fascinating!

[@deadlikedisco4726]

I wasn't aware of these little devices. Great video, my man!

[@WmSrite-pi8ck]

I'd try a tungsten welding electrode as a replacement for the cathode rod that died. Tig electrodes com 10 to a pack for about $15-20. I'd avoid the thoriated ones and stick to pure W.

[@nonchip]

the thorinated ones taste better tho ;)

[@BensWorkshop]

There are two things you must know about Big Clive. The first is that his name is Clive and the second is.... Nice work. Many thanks for the entertainment!

[@katyushaslab7635]

I had a video in the works on these for ages , posted results every so often on the Ex&F subreddit every so often. I got the idea from your last video on them IIRC! The round one you have there is the same as the ones I've been playing with, so far about 6 months runtime (with the occasional day off). Draws about 2A, 5V from a cellphone wallwart kind of power source. Has produced a couple of kilograms of good quality chlorate now. No noticeable issues with the electrodes, maybe some mild wear? I haven't left the electrodes in solution while not running though. My purification process is also pretty lossy, been using NaCl due to cost and then later doing the double-displacement dance with KCl, followed by some recryst. I'll be very interested to see any stuff you have on primer making or DIY percussion caps for BP shooting.

[@ElementalMaker]

Holy smokes I can't be you've gotten six months runtime with that kind of current density! I thought it might last a few weeks and much longer if current limited, but that's unbelievable!

[@katyushaslab7635]

@@ElementalMaker I'd kind of assumed they would wear out after a month tops, so I bought a bunch. The original one is somehow still working, rest are still in their boxes. From what I can see so far, as long as the cell temp is kept under control and they aren't left in solution without power, they seem to be fairly resilient.

[@dandan-gf4jk]

@@katyushaslab7635 what does "cell temp is kept under" mean? Do you run them cold? because I assume they don't produce much heat on their own. From my own observation this keeps the ph very basic and keeps the OCl- ion in solution so you don't get the autooxidation reaction thus requiring more current/time.

[@katyushaslab7635]

@@dandan-gf4jk the cell is barely warm to the touch. I don't do any active pH control currently on the small cells. Some of my larger cells with proper MMO electrodes get genuinely quite hot while running and need active cooling, wheras these ones I just leave in a room with no heating - the thermal mass of the electrolyte is enough.

[@ewbaite]

I've read that the double displacement method is more efficient than just electrolysing KCl

[@Markus__B]

Hey. You´re not dead. Nice. ^^

[@MrRadioGypsy]

Bought one of these (the bigger one shown in this viddy)) almost a year ago to make potassium chlorate; but never got around to it yet. The power supply was my issue. But I can now see that those little wall wart jobbies work just fine in gittin 'er done. Not bad for 48 hours; thought it would also take longer. Like 72-96 hours - closer to 96. Did you also wash and re-crystalize your product? If no; the there were still contaminates - but your experiment proved chlorate in great concentration! That is viable. Glad to see that you are making videos again, as I do watch them. Some more than once - especially synthesizing the silver acetylide. That was fun!

[@godfamilycountry4211]

Glad to see you back. Missed your knowledge. Thx

[@UncommonNews777]

That little thing makes bleach? That's awesome for a shtf bugout bag. Thanks man!

[@branni6538]

Yes! Making chlorate isn't a wise move, but making bleach is very valuable. Cleans everything, work surfaces, entire home/vehicle insides, our bodies so long as it's diluted and makes water safe that isn't safe so long as it's filtered.

[@kevin...-]

I'm happy to see you again my friend.

[@morareduard]

Really happy you're back!

[@HeimoVN]

Interesting... After watching this video, I found that they make chlorinators for saltwater swimming pools that may be a decent source of electrodes for decent sized cells...

[@ElementalMaker]

Yes those work great, but are quite expensive

[@HeimoVN]

@@ElementalMaker expensive, no doubt, but only about 50% more expensive than a MMO electrode from ebay if I factor in the cost of getting it this side of the pond and all the import taxes that goes along with buying from abroad in this crappy country... The one thing though, the spare electrode cartridges are available from local suppliers that are fairly reliable in comparison to the ebay sellers, which would make the extra cost worth it...

[@ElementalMaker]

@@HeimoVN another great thing is to call local pool shops and see if they have any old used /broken salt water chlorinators. Typically the electrodes outlive the housing so they are often tossed with still usable electrodes

[@HeimoVN]

@@ElementalMaker excellent idea...

[@VinniesKitchenYt]

I have a saltwater pool and those generators are stupid expensive lol

[@DesertJeff]

I'm also glad to see you back on KZbin!

[@jaredanderson9781]

oh hey, 2 little pink rings that look just small enough for you! wife will be happy ;) glad to see youre back with more less-than-illegal chaos

[@johnchristopherrobert1839]

I’m glad to see you back.

[@frednasty9153]

Think we was all worried about you. Welcome back

[@DatBoiOrly]

i'm looking forward to the primer video and what would be cool is to see a video on smokeless gunpowder so you can produce everything for a bullet at home

[@ElementalMaker]

I think I may still attempt the primer video, but no way I could post it on KZbin without risking the channel. That might be a patreon / Odysee only video

[@theterribleanimator1793]

I'm sure the atf is gonna love that one.

[@DatBoiOrly]

@@ElementalMaker that's fine with me since i'm following your odysee channel

[@trollmcclure1884]

@@ElementalMaker but you have to use them fast right? It's not very stable, is it?

[@theterribleanimator1793]

@@trollmcclure1884 chlorates? yeah, very unstable, even worse if mixed with... just about anything that would make them into a explosive. Really you should make your rocket compund "in situ" when dealing with chlorates. Perchlorates should be mostly fine though, less power since its more stable but you wont get any "middle of the night in your shed" surprises.

[@drmarine1771]

Great to see you back. I knew Bill had a dungeon.

[@chipko]

You're alive!!!I was going to stay searching for a backup channel just in case. I think you need a backup channel anyway!!!+ All balance in the universe has been restored!

[@koukouzee2923]

It's good to see you are still alive

[@benlee4940]

Might be worth putting a USB meter inline with a working cell to see if it's drawing more than the supply likes. If that's the case then one of those cheap current limited buck converters running off the 12V rail of a computer power supply stepped down to 5V and current limited might be better. It also gives you the option to lower the voltage and set a current limit that won't push the electrodes so hard. Or run it of the computer power supply 5V rail.

[@fiokgoogle8779]

I like a lot the way you talk Greeting from Hungary Bánfalva ISU🎉😃👌🏻

[@RangerOfTheOrder]

Glad to have you back! I've been missing your videos

[@grugsplat3540]

Welcome back hope things are going well

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

Long time no see! Welcome back

[@ElementalMaker]

Thank you my friend!

[@buckstarchaser2376]

Me: "Heeey! It's a new video from The Elemental Maker!" 3 seconds later... "I just got anticipated."

[@jeffallen3382]

"Tighter than a nuns ass"...man have I missed your videos! Glad to see you back!

[@ralfvk.4571]

Tried the flat ones some weeks ago already and they are great for KClO3 and also they seem to be very durable. However, for better removing of KCl residues I would recommend a one-time recrystallisation of the crystals with some boiling water and you get really ultra pure, flaky Chlorate. Unfortunately I ordered also a round one, before I've seen this video, that could have protected me from buying. Now I know, what to expect from it. Will not use it for ClO3 production. Better use 2 or more of the flat ones same time. Dear Elemental Maker, it would be very nice to see how to make PbO2-Anodes from blanc lead-sheet electrolized in H2SO4, and after that, the production of ClO3 or even ClO4 from it. That's a project I still wanna test. Even if the lead may be not so effective like MMO and maybe the layer won't resist as long, but therefore it's ultra cheap and you can produce big electrodes and use real high current on it, for fast production of oxidizers. I guess that still could be worth a try. :-)

[@markymark-2]

Man I was getting worried. Good to see you're back

[@Mikidy303]

I 'm glad to see you back. I was afraid you went the same way as my other KZbin hero Apetor.

[@Tapajoss]

I am currently running a sodium/potassium chlorate farm. I bought one round one and threw it in a solution of sodium/potassium chloride at 2A 5V with strong stirring. Hope it works fine

[@ChimeraChemLab]

And... It works fine?

[@Tapajoss]

@@ChimeraChemLab yep

[@Dumbscience4thewin]

So you need a set voltage and amperage thise are using usb so its most likely 5v at like 0.5 to 2 amps probably? How would this make you that much chlorate in such a short time?

[@helidrones]

The electrodes will quickly degrade if most of the KCl is used up. Be sure to add KCl to the solution whenever the concentration goes below 10 to 15%. Also, make sure to remove the electrodes from the solution as soon as you switch off power. I am guessing that the one with the round pin finished early and then degraded due to a lack of KCl.

[@ChemicalU235]

A little off topic but I snagged a few sheets of titanium wire plate looked about same size holes as your mmo sheet. I am working on trying to make a hho cell and I wanted to try titanium electrodes vs stainless steel. I kinda want to try to make a hydrogen compressor and o2 compressor so I can store both gasses in bottles if I run a diff cell set up to separate them. Then a home made cryo cooler to torn them to liquid. My rocket dreams kinda need little more the composite fuel

[@iamme39]

Have you made a cell that separates the gases ???

[@TheAussiePirate]

Good to see you back!

[@Saltboi231]

I'm so happy you're back! I love all your videos!

[@dcallan812]

you are allowed to have some fun with a ball gag if you want, and you dont have to make excuses to us. 🤣 Have fun with the renovations.

[@negativerush]

Glad to see you back

[@richspillman4191]

"...ended up in the basement with a ball gag..." 1st thing I thought was "I KNEW IT!"

[@melplishka5978]

Nice too see ya back lol. Totally thaught you got tired of it lol.

[@itsmanlikehark3203]

What Voltage and Current did you use, How Long did you have the chlorinator run and what was the concentration of KCL and volume of the total electrolyte

[@ElementalMaker]

Current was as much as the electrodes would allow, voltage was standard 5v from a USB power adapter, and the KCl solution was fully saturated

[@itsmanlikehark3203]

@@ElementalMakerthanks I’m currently running at 5.1v 2.1A in 40g sodium chloride solution in 100ml of water do you think this would be alright Edit: I just finished running it for 48 hours and there were crystals built up on the electrodes and there were crystals at the bottom of my beaker but I dried it in open air and tried to light them by themselves and with sugar but they wouldn’t ignite do you know what the problem may have been

[@Psyden5757]

I wonder if these could be used to chlorinate CuCl2 etchant in order to "regenerate" it I know usually in the industry they bubble chloirine gas into it but i'm not sure about an electrolysis method like this

[@ElementalMaker]

I would think electrolyzing cucl2 would just plate out elemental copper and release chlorine gas, probably the opposite of your desired effect, although I admit I'm unfamiliar with that etching process so I definitely could be wrong

[@INORBET]

Hells Yeah Elemental Maker 😎 Best voice on YT returns , Yahtzee !! 👍🏼👍🏼😂😂❤️❤️

[@bill6943]

Welcome back Bob.

[@NineSun001]

Great, that you are back!

[@Engineerd3d]

Been binge watching your channel as I recently found it. You have a bit of an AVE sense of humor. Lovely work!

[@koukouzee2923]

I read somewhere that you can make perchlorate from chlorate with acetone or something like that

[@laboratoryofliptakov8157]

Yes, on my channel.

[@mysterysolved4411]

What's the difference between 84 disinfectant and hypochlorous acid?

[@JohnLeePettimoreIII]

Holy shit, Batman! He's alive! 🤯 😳 🤘

[@GMCLabs]

I think I got my MMO plate from the same guy. Still have it! It was some insane price, like I think I paid $36 for a 12" x 36" sheet. Crazy cheap!

[@ElementalMaker]

Yessir I think his name was Laserred on ebay. The prices were UNREAL! I wish I bought many more when he had them in stock years ago. Probably will be tough to find a deal like that ever again

[@drjmansplace5174]

Mouse is likely in the basement. Good video.

[@acorredorv]

You're alive! Welcome back!

[@MercAudio99]

Awesome video👍 good to see you back

[@rickjwilliams]

Yep, They do work for making chlorates! Just keep the amps down 1-2 amps

[@iamme39]

So what am I doing wrong ??

[@iamme39]

I have tried and tried so many times with everything you can imagine, and fail... So I bought some MMO and titanium, ran them for 2 days and yellow water is what I got .

[@JohnLeePettimoreIII]

For a proper comparison, perhaps you could mix your salt solution separately prior to filling the two beakers with it. That way, you can be certain that the salt concentrations are functionality identical.

[@ElementalMaker]

I used the provided salt scoops with the water volume recommended for each, that way everything was done per mfg instructions. With identical solutions, I think the bigger one would have had the slight edge

[@ZURAD]

Pretty sure you can make sure these produce chlorate if you get the solution to 60C or higher before starting.

[@Qwertypp10]

Yeah, even 70C is optimal temp. more over in souch temperatures much less chlorine evaporates, probably Cl2 is better used.

[@LocnavLivoc]

Welcome back to the youtubz!!! :)

[@Chris47368]

Welcome back! First time i have been this early too! 😂

[@Chuck_Huckler]

Damn, i thought the wuflu took you!

[@NagashiChidorii]

What is the white stuff that you extract and mix with sugar? Is that potassium chlorate?

[@ElementalMaker]

Yes it is

[@fredrickgustafsson4795]

yay finally back, been missing your videos

[@ProfaneGod]

I don't know if you know of these two channels both by the same guy but he does some experiments you might like they are Explosions&Fire and Extractions&Ire and yes NurdRage did do a large scale one with an ebay $6 pump which he is still using for vacuum filtration and vacuum distilling.

[@ElementalMaker]

I love Tom's videos!

[@DatBoiOrly]

yay he's back!

[@gordonfamilyforge134]

In an apocalyptic situation one may need to create lead acid batteries. How does one go about making or acquiring the lead oxide types needed for the positive and negative plates? The one is called peroxide of lead and Lead oxide

[@johnmcfadden9336]

Robert Murray smith has some good videos on lead acid batteries amongst other stuff

[@DudeVon]

Heeeey! Its my favorite layman chemist! Good to see ya. Hows the home life been treatin' ya?

[@putteslaintxtbks5166]

I think if they would hold up, they could produce large volumes. Say put into a 10 gallon fish tank and let them go for a month or so with some extra salt and maybe a glass fish tank heater to keep it at op temp (what is that? 80-110°f?).

[@putteslaintxtbks5166]

Also could have multiples running in one tank.

[@ElementalMaker]

I like the way you think

[@stevenarmstrong7548]

Return of the King.

[@JohnLeePettimoreIII]

"Cathōdic" sounds right to me.

[@mph8759]

Love the Bill Gates joke with Pulp Fiction reference there

[@thekaduu]

If there is a nun, there may be an alter boy too. I'd look into that...

[@Deveyus]

This is so strange, I was just watching one of your videos earlier this weekend going "Man, it looks like another channel I liked stopped posting, bummer." Then this pops up, after watching a BigClive video on salvaging lithium cells.

[@tenchi20229]

Hey man! Missed your content.

[@kenwolfe6093]

Hey! Welcome Back!

[@ElementalMaker]

Thank you Ken!

[@hamhawk4027]

OMG I missed you. I hope everyone is ok.

[@damocsell]

More salt would have created a lower resistance in circuit overloading the power supply?

[@scotthaddad563]

That primall kit is pretty anemic and the chemicals are mixed by volume by utilizing a tiny scoop. I guess the manufacturer thinks that guys who reload their own probably won’t have a Grain Scale. It is kind of disappointing. A list of ingredients would have been helpful so we could twist our own from locally sources materials. If I was inclined to mess with that stuff, I would just use Amazon. They have almost everything a mad scientist could ask for. Hahahahaha, stay safe there man!

[@keithmoore5306]

was starting to wonder maker!! so a remodel i was figuring the wife surprised you with triplets and you had your hands full twice over! if you're looking to make percussion caps you can get the old paper cap gun strips and cut the little dots out for the bang part! i used to have a 26 caliber muzzle loading turreted squirrel rifle that used those bastards in place of no 11 caps you'd turn the turret chamber sideways load her with 10 grains and a ball then tear a dot off the strip and fit it to the back of chamber!! that's one i should have kept!

[@ElementalMaker]

That squirrel turret sounds awesome! Caps are pretty much just Armstrongs mix if I remember correctly. K chlorate and red phos go bangl

[@keithmoore5306]

@@ElementalMaker not sure what's in them but they're a major pain to use in reloading primers i can tell that from experience!!

[@johndcknsn]

Holy crap you're alive!!!

[@BB-jq6ek]

welcome back

[@bobrobert319]

Cool. Thank you. 👍

[@darkfur18]

A quick google search shows that you can produce ammonium perchlorate with sodium chlorate (or table salt including this process), hydrochloric acid, and ammonia via a multi-step process. Sounds fun.

[@ElementalMaker]

Your username made my day. Thanks for the tip on that process, I will definitely look into it, that's potentially way easier than what I had in mind

[@laboratoryofliptakov8157]

@@ElementalMaker Yes, next steps are easy.

[@darkfur18]

@@ElementalMaker Thanks, Google won't actually let me change my name anymore so I'm stuck with this now :^) As for the process, what I've come up with is table salt to sodium chlorate to sodium perchlorate through electrolysis, mixed with hydrochloric acid to produce perchloric acid and sodium chloride, and then treat the perchloric acid with ammonia to produce ammonium perchlorate. Bear in mind this is all wikipedia research so take it with a grain of salt

[@woo7309]

I bought this thing the big one in the video, but after 2 days the cathode the stainless steel getting a bit darker (not completely black is like the color of a graphite in the pencil ) but it keep producing chlorate, I think because of the temperature maybe too high i don't know please help me.