Awful Archaeology Ep. 6.5: The Baghdad Battery... Again?

[@SpaceMarshmallowPirate]

As a librarian: If you're struggling with primary sources now that you've left college, use your local library! We libraries spend a fair amount of money to give patrons access to many databases, websites, etc. that colleges give students access to. Although our sources are definitely lacking in comparison, if you look into what digital resources your local library offers, there's a good change you already have access to more than you think.

[@iloveplasticbottles]

Some universities offer their databases for free, like NAU. Some even let you walk in and use their resources (like books and computers) for free, like NAU.

[@thnecromaniac]

I super agree, I remember my dad taking me to Truman Library, one of my local libraries, to do his reserch on his and his ex wife's (who was indeed his ex wife at the time, and is also my mom) geneology. though sadly I was too young to apreceate the library in such a way I can now, I should go back to check it out some day...

[@emmestein]

@@thnecromaniac What was the reason for his research?

[@thnecromaniac]

@@emmestein he just has a personal instrest in geneology.

[@danielhooper502]

That and scihub

[@Floccinaucinihilipilificator]

"-- to curse your target, engrave spells of preference on a sheet of lead, roll loosely and leave it to sink at the bottom of their personal source of water." I don't believe in curses but I got a hunch that this one used to work pretty well.

[@bakedbeings]

The wording in the spell may not have matched the results, but the melody could be discerned.

[@TylerTMG]

hmmmmm i should try this

[@EnigmaticHandbag666]

I will test this theory and get back to you

[@axew3127]

I wonder what *lead* you to that conclusion

[@pomelo9518]

au contraire lead doesn't actually react very well with water :(

[@hoo7797]

Knowing the most likely interpretation of the Baghdad Jars, it's absolutely hilarious how the "it's a battery" interpretation is really just a perfect storm of circumstances: >A jug, in which someone may have put lemon juice to drink >The owner of the jug writes a curse on a lead sheet >Stores the curse in a copper cylinder >Seals the copper cylinder inside the empty, uncleaned jug with bitumen >Nails the jug and buries it >The top of the jug is broken off so it looks like just a jar with a nail sticking out of a bitumen seal Thousands of years later Conspiracy Theorists: All the elements line up: this ancient jar is a battery! Surely used to power up a lightbulb ways away from where it was found!

[@schuylergeery-zink1923]

Other comments about witches bottles also theorize it could be urine which has been used to rituals similar to this one. Not as appetizing as lemon juice… without the bottle and modern tools to analyze the substance we won’t know for sure.

[@plainText384]

2 contacts made of different metals, separated by an insulator, some sort of fluid/electrolyte in between, all of it encased in a container. That's an electrochemical cell (battery). But does that mean it was ever used as a battery? No. It doesn't even mean the people who built it knew that there was an electric potential there waiting for a way to be discharged. Especially if the electrodes weren't accessible because of the top half of the jar, which hadn't yet been broken off, there would be almost no way to tell. Even if the contacts were accessible, the voltage would be too low to detect it by touching the contacts with your hand. Even your tongue, which is much more sensitive (and can be used to "taste" a 9V battery's charge), probably wouldn't pick anything up at the 1.1V Milo mentioned in part 1. Maybe you could short circuit the battery with a very thin thread of copper (or a conductor with a lower melting point), and the thread would melt or burn through like the filament of a smashed light bulb, but this would only work if the internal resistance of the battery is low enough. That's probably not the case, but Milo didn't talk about experimental archeologists measuring this, and I'm not going to do any research of my own. But realistically, the internal resistance is basically going to be related to the surface area of the electrodes, so I'd assume it's pretty terrible for the Baghdad battery. Tldr.: It's very possible for two things to be true. 1) It is a battery 2) the people building it neither knew nor cared about the electrical properties of their creation.

[@cherryjuice9946]

@@plainText384 That's a good point about not being able to feel a small voltage. I can "taste" 9V's if I put it on my tongue, but can't feel it on my skin. Half-cell chemical reactions from the metals used would produce a lame voltage. Without evidence of wires, there's no reason to suspect they stacked these in series (to get a higher voltage). Unlikely they were batteries or used as batteries.

[@johns1625]

Did you not watch this video? There's no way for the electrolyte to contact both metals. It's a sealed copper cylinder set into a ceramic pot, and the copper cylinder has papyrus in it. The iron nail and bitumen seal is just to close the open end of the copper cylinder. For all we know the lemon juice or whatever was inside of the pot was only there to keep the pot from tipping over.

[@sweettorello]

We're getting both an Avatar 2 and a Baghdad battery 2 in 1 year. Strange times, also good, but still double sequels

[@miniminuteman773]

James Cameron eat your heart out

[@sweettorello]

@@miniminuteman773 it would be really sick if you could do a short comparing the treatment of the native people of pandora with how other cultures on earth had sacred artifacts/sites destroyed. So much lost history and culture.

[@CoreKatalyst]

I thought it was just back in theaters, is it really getting a sequel?

[@patchyworx]

@@CoreKatalyst yep, it's getting a whole new movie!

[@sweettorello]

@@CoreKatalyst yeah the sequel is releasing sometime in December I think

[@rachelkartin7019]

My favorite "it must be ritual" is when a bunch of male archeologists found sharpened obsidian stuck in the roofs (like thatch) and said it might have been to keep them closer to the sun so they get some of the sun's power. But then some women quickly realized it was to keep the kitchen knives away from the kids.

[@michaelj.beglinjr.2804]

That is awesome.

[@brotherkhrayn3525]

Men: “it must be a ritual!” Women: “no, it’s to keep the sharp things away from you guys…”

[@Jovangrollino-xh4fr]

I mean, they theorized that, they didn't realize it.

[@sayno8685]

Is there an article/videos explain further detail about the whole situation?

[@troystaunton254]

Trust a woman to recognise kitchen wear. I am of course joking. But it is often surprising how the most logical answer is the answer.

[@itsonlyafleshwound9024]

I love how the ultimate archaeology flex seems to be: "I found the MOST OBSCURE source in the SMALLEST library in the LEAST ACCESSIBLE location".

[@amandas2639]

Historians are guilty of this too. We love to one-up each other with increasingly obscure sources. "Oh, what's that? You *didn't* know about this scrap of paper in the private collection of this widow living in the remotest part of Iceland and who will only show it to you if you ask her nicely on a Tuesday? What a shame."

[@ladylucia917]

You are absolutely right ❤

[@geteducatedyoufool4563]

This sounds so easy to end up with 'sources' that aren't trustworthy and potentially prone to confirmation biases

[@gageyoung2111]

@@amandas2639😝😝😂😂😂😂

[@gabriellynch2764]

Oh yesss say it again!

[@Bowie_E]

I am so in love with the amount of respect, maturity, and growth exhibited in this video. The professor's video has repeatedly come up in my feed and I never Wat he'd it bc I assumed what I would hear. That was my bad. I will go back and watch the professor's video. I love this mature, knowledgeable back-and-forth. I just freaking love this sh*t. Thank you so much for this knowledge 🙏 Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu 🙏

[@miniminuteman773]

Discourse is at the core of all the sciences! Without it we are just yelling into the void. I highly recommend checking out Dr. Haffords channel as he has PLENTY of insightful content that I’m sure you will take a lot away from!

[@greggi47]

@@miniminuteman773 There are some who post on KZbin and other platforms who would ignore the kind of insights Dr. Hafford offers, find them threatening, and even strike out in some way You have my respect for your own reaction..

[@themeddite]

@@miniminuteman773 I love genuine discussion, watching it and being apart of it. As much as I like watching two people arguing However that gets old. Thanks for uploading this video.

[@AcornFox]

vipassana practitioner?

[@toxicnukem]

ima go watch it too

[@kaylinhendrich4673]

A consistent theme of my watching Milo’s videos has been that the actual story behind a lot of archaeological conspiracy theories is waaaaay more interesting that the theories

[@Nono-hk3is]

I'm so glad Dr. Hafford brought up the ground breaking ceremony when talking about ritual. I think we tend to think of ancient rituals as weird, esoteric religious incantations from horror movies, when really they are just things from daily life! Which actually are weird, esoteric, and religious, but no more horrific than candles on a birthday cake, or saying "bless you" when someone sneezes .

[@someone16234]

👆👆👆

[@lisasetiawan3552]

thats very true!

[@shannap.lawnerd8107]

👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 When anyone says “ritual” lately, people seem to jump straight to dark robes & candles 🕯 with insidious purposes… Ritual is an important part of the human nature! It enables us to connect with our deepest feelings; hopes, fears, desires, grief, anger, etc… Merriam-Webster has this to say on “ritual”: “1 : the established form for a ceremony specifically : the order of words prescribed for a religious ceremony. 2a : ritual observance specifically : a system of rites. b : a ceremonial act or action. c : an act or series of acts regularly repeated in a set precise manner.” You already mentioned birthdays and “Bless you”s after sneezes… I would include pre-game huddles, carrying that lucky 🍀 charm your dad gave you, tossing spilled salt 🧂 over your shoulder, and so much more!! Even those dark robes, that might look imposing to those who are uninformed, have a meaning & purpose for the wearers. 😉 If anyone has doubts about the power of ritual in these modern times, I’d invite you to search for “winning lottery numbers” in the KZbin search bar. 😅🤷🏻‍♀️🍀 If it’s important and special to you, that shouldn’t bother anyone else… Stay safe out there, be blessed!! 🤓🤘🏽💋🔮⚖️

[@michealdrake3421]

It's kind of weird to realize that, while cultures and religions and philosophies and societies come and go, human nature ultimately stays the same, and in every time and culture, the peoples' behavior was just that same nature that we have, the same basic wants, needs, fears, and impulses, through the lens of the time and place they were in. That's why the Voynich manuscript is probably just an art project or the handbook to a tabletop game and why the the annotations in the margins of medieval manuscripts are full of in jokes and complaints about writing and other monks.

[@albuseisenhorn3385]

Yeah or that technically so is a toast during a meal - that one kinda threw me.

[@Fairyfink]

This was pure joy: two people, both passionate about archaeology, but with very different but equally engaging personalities, communicating through the medium of the reaction video. And a cat.

[@5superhombre]

The cat truly stole the show

[@teucer915]

I would love to see them do a collaboration.

[@jeffreymoulend9099]

"and I hope he continues" Milo then went on to not continue this series for another almost 1.5 years

[@LordOfElysium]

😭

[@malubecker8508]

I mean, life happens

[@legion162]

Love how he's not debunking or proving you wrong, rather he's filling in gaps in your knowledge, and expanding the knowledge that you already have 👍

[@kylewilliams8114]

The intention behind the response makes all the difference. He was definitely corrected on some things, but not attacked for it. Allowed for teaching moments we all got enlightened from!

[@pokerusfreak8194]

honestly, so cool. A lot of it boiled down to a more broad understanding of the culture at the time and the area of the world, as well as better access to documents and research. Very impressive showing of his expertise in the field, and truly brought to light just how easy it is for secondary sources to get little things wrong, and those little things adding up over time to make the "common knowledge" about things be so far gone from the original sources.

[@nidhogg8446]

Science

[@hankboog462]

That's what actually important science discourse is. Debunking idiots is fun and a potential teaching tool but stuff like that is what actually matters

[@hoppytoad79]

@@kylewilliams8114 Dr. Hafford's a great teacher. Teaching majors should observe his lectures.

[@mr.hartwood7121]

"This is my roommate's cat, but he will be mine." This is it. This is how you get a cat.

[@when-do-we-get-a-block-button]

parents let a cat inside, i ended up with a cat. yes, you only end up with a cat. you dont go and get one, they get you

[@Klaaism]

Cats choose you, human servant.

[@lynntownsend100]

During the vast majority of my adult life since I was 20 or so, I've almost *always* had a cat, and I've almost *never* had more than a few hours - or days at most- warning! (And the times that I had to wait more than a few days, it was because a friend's cat had a litter! 🥰😹)

[@jonathanj8303]

We went to the shelter to chose a cat.. an 8 week old kitten climbing 5feet up the cage mesh to look me in the eyes. Gave me good hard look. Went home with that one. Yeah, we got picked.

[@kyetes.866]

@@lynntownsend100 haha my second cat was from a foster litter of 5 kittens that I had 30 minutes’ notice for. (I thought they were assigning me *some* of the litter, I was wrong LOL) And then later found out the rescue had mistakenly given me kittens with ringworm (I’m immunocompromised) because a “holistic” vet had cleared them without actually culturing them.

[@phodon129]

A lot of what I'm taking from this is that the paywalling of scientific papers is a massive wall on the way of anyone wanting to learn about a subject matter without a lot of money to spend on either the papers themselves, or being part of a university.

[@krankarvolund7771]

Long live SciHub ^^

[@northernnaysayer1240]

I know academics that struggle to pay for all the books written in thier relevant field as theyre usually in the hundreds of dollars and they're not always covered in the budgets they get for thier research. Everything is being commercialised to such a horrendous degree that even the experts struggle to keep up without limitless funding.

[@barbaralaibuta7710]

@Nad Senoj very rarely the researchers are paid by publishers for he research papers... but if you email the researcher they usually email you the paper for free because they are just happy that the research is used.

[@cursedGalataea]

@Nad Senoj who told you that researchers get paid by journal publishers for their articles? researchers don't even get paid to peer review, they're expected to do that for the publishers for free, too.

[@northernnaysayer1240]

@Nad Senoj that money isn't used by them, it's used by the publisher to enrich thier shareholders. They're not cooperatives, they don't redistribute wealth to the people doing the work. In fact, I'm pretty certain academics/institutions have to pay for thier own individual subscriptions, but I'd have to confirm. Researchers get thier money from either private enterprise, grants or intergenerational wealth, once the research is done, most in the public sphere happily give it out for free. I've heard of academics putting thier papers, books and audiobooks onto torrent websites 6 months after it's been published, just so the info is out there and not stuck behind a pay wall that they will never make any money from. Funding in academia is fucked up. You won't find much online but if you go and talk to academics they will happily tell you many anecdotal stories of how funding has fucked them over.

[@ExzisUniverse]

31:10 When he says he’s gonna start putting in more errors so he gets more corrections- i love that, perfect example of Murphys Law: “The best way to get the right answer on the Internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer.”

[@evanrigel954]

devestated that no-one took your bait sooner! that's cunningham's law. (murphy's law is what can go wrong will go wrong, for future readers)

[@samit9789]

Holy cow, i just realized that this comment is a bait, TO PROVE THIS COMMENT Hats off my friend, hats off

[@-elijahriggs-]

I appreciate that post. I knew the concept and I've explained that to people before and always got very great response because I haven't mentioned it to someone yet that seems to have understood the concept already but I did not know it was called Cunningham's law.

[@magosmallen2973]

I read this and I was like, "wait, that's not Murphy's law, don't know who's law that is, but it isn't Murphy's" Then Mr. Evanrigel954 comes along and introduces the name Cunningham's law. Now as I'm writing this I'm questioning if they are going for a double bait or not... quick fact check expedition accomplished, they were not, in fact, going for a double bait.

[@gzer0x]

@@magosmallen2973no, that’s Cole’s Law

[@chadoistad]

I am a partner at an architecture firm, responsible for training young architects. One of the first things I tell new hires is that if they ever think I`m wrong, to tell me, because then I can correct my knowledge, or correct their knowledge, and then we can both be right. I love this back and forth.

[@gruesometoucan2332]

And this is why I like your channel. You're EXCITED to be wrong, because you get to learn something. It's a hard mindset to have, but one that is absolutely essential imo

[@kyetes.866]

That mindset was the most valuable skill I took away from higher education, and I’m still not as good as Milo is here.

[@nonpondo_]

​@@kyetes.866being wrong sucks but I think it's what separates who's truly passionate about the topic, the excitement to learn the truth vs the shame or embarrassment of being wrong

[@zorimanar2247]

It's an incredibly difficult mindset to foster, and one of the main things schools need to get better at encouraging. Being ignorant is shamed too much in situations where it doesn't matter, and it leads to people taking fewer intellectual risks and gaining an unfortunate ego over being right. Speaking from personal experience.

[@binkbonkbones3402]

This is wholesome. THE INTERNET IS FINALLY LIVING UP TO ITS POTENTIAL OF BEING A PLACE PEOPLE CAN EASILY AND RESPECTFULLY SHARE INFORMATION

[@louisrobitaille5810]

It happens all the time on the internet. However, this is KZbin, only a very tiny fraction of the internet.

[@lucalinadreemur9448]

Perhaps he means finally it's happening in the mainstream section of the internet? I can't really say his intent but that does spring to mind.

[@bmxriderforlife1234]

Scholagladitoria is a great channel for this. But mostly sword related.

[@babygorilla4233]

This video is actually kinda a modern snapshot of what the early internet was. I'm talking before the first spam message, it was just professors being cordial.

[@SnailHatan]

Finally? You must never use the internet.

[@sadmermaid]

I watched his original video, I love that archaeologists are basically history detectives, and 'calling each other out' isn't personal fighting, but fighting for the common good of knowledge. Dr Hafford is a real one, its very cute watching you fangirl. Beyond stoked for you dude, congrats!

[@elinaw6175]

The 'batteries' being buried in the corners of a house foundation really gives me the vibe of protective spell. I'm Swedish and in old Swedish folklore when building a church you would bury a sheep, dog, horse or other farm animal alive under the church and that animal would become a Grym. Another version is that you killed the animal first and that it was to be specifically buried under the north corner stone of the church. The church grym was a ghoul that wandered the graveyard at night and scared away thiefs. Great video as always, looking forward to a possible collab .

[@Klaaism]

You wonder where people come up with this stuff.

[@Whispitt]

​@@Klaaism well when things die they become ghosts and ghosts are spooky so I guess it makes sense if ghosts are real

[@Klaaism]

@@Whispitt Audio-visual hallucinations from sub-harmonic vibrations has been suggested.

[@aribantala]

​@@Klaaism Well yes, But that's why the human mind is a fascinating stuff on it's own. How it came to rationalize their surroundings. By far, Humans are the only species of animals that have this concept of *spirituality* with such an extensive rigor Other animals have this concept, We see Elephant mourning, and even covering up their dead pack member with leaves or dirt, and Ravens congregating on scene where one of their group died and began squawking in quite a unison. Animals that have a semblance of pack/social behaviour do this essentially. But never to the extent of what Humans do with theirs. What humans do as a social animal and doing/rationalizing this, I guess to put it bluntly, very non-utilitarian acts, is pretty intense There's no apparent reason for humans to make a jar and write curses inside it to "ward off evil spirits", no reason for burying the remains of an animal under a building "to appease the grym" and prevents bad things to happen to them... But in the same way there's practically no reason for those ravens to literally gather in the middle of somewhere, usually even open grounds, and just squawk loudly on one of their dead mate... Possibly attracting predators or other dangers to them.. The most utilitarian move is just to leave the premises. But as a social animal, their rationale is probably to seek the danger and alert other members of their group. It's not the best move, but it's the only good one they know... Same as humans thinking that it's the only good one they know... So they bury animal remains with XYZ criteria, or giving X amount of valuable material to storage/offerings because it worked before TL;DR: Humans are Social animals and many social animals do perform these "non-utilitarian" acts of *spirituality*. But one thing for certain, Humans is by far the only species that indulge on this so much

[@barthoving2053]

@@Klaaism Because only if you held it up to more scrutiny it actually makes no sense. And you often do not have the resources for that scrutiny. All babies and young children view the world as a place where magic is possible. Supernatural or aliens is an nice simple explanation so long as you do not want to much proof.

[@VonSpriggan]

For a long time I really bought Into the Graham Hancock thing. Went to his talks, met the guy (very nice person and endless energy for his fans). I feel quite stupid now, but that's good. Thanks Milo for the correction and with this knowledge I've been able to change my opinion and look at history with a new perspective and fascination ❤

[@hannahbeanies8855]

Never, ever feel stupid for your past self when you are learning and growing. You weren’t stupid! In fact, you were obviously very bright and curious (you still are). Not everyone would willingly go to talks about history, even if the material itself wasn’t accurate and/or was misinterpreted. That would not make you stupid at all! 😊

[@wowitscoldout1119]

Milo being so ready for criticism is not only super sweet and fairly entertaining, but man it makes getting criticism so much easier for me

[@darbybaird7275]

Watching you get nervous and giddy about someone 'grading' your video was absolutely adorable! Like how much you want to be right, but also your awe at his knowledge!

[@user-ni9op2cp9m]

Thanks for watching 🔝🔝 And commenting Send a direct message right away You have just won a gift🎁🎁🎁

[@artanddesign8561]

You nailed it, there’s always a problem with logical discussion when somebody just wants to be right, that’s all they care about is being right… I don’t care what anyone else says I just wanna be right…

[@myrithart]

The last week Dr. Hafford's video was recommended to me A LOT but I somehow haven't watched it, probably because I was scared of KZbin drama. I'm so relieved that this is so respectful, nice and just adding onto your video! I'm very happy I stumbled upon this community~ Also omg Lou is so adorable

[@Crlarl]

I watched the Dr's video before this and it was great. Give it a watch!

[@KianaWolf]

I had the same initial reaction, mostly because I'm used to following YEC / flat earth debunkers, who get a lot of hate and lie filled responses to their videos. The *second* time Hafford's video popped up in my recommendations, I clicked it. It was a very pleasant surprise.

[@lordofuzkulak8308]

@@KianaWolf same here. When I did click on Dr Hafford’s vid, it was with some tentativeness because I was worried it might be drama/pot stirring, and was relieved to find it was respectful discourse.

[@BigNBrother]

This speaks volumes. Alot of people I've seen get insta-triggered as soon as someone says they were wrong about the slightest detail. However, these two showed mutual respect. Dr. Hafford had the experience to teach us something new. Milo was willing to listen to Dr. Hafford so he too can learn. Also loved that Dr. Hafford affirmed Milo's good points while also correcting when he needed to. Teaching at it's finest, in my opinion.

[@OneToxicPixel]

Milo: I am happy and stoked because I learned a lot of cool stuff today No joke the pure joy on your face every time you learned something from that nice doctor was genuinely fun to watch. You didn't get angry because "How dare he correct ME?", instead you just went "Hell yeah, new knowledge, I'm gonna soak this all up like a sponge" and that is why we all love you.

[@robertnett9793]

And that's how it should be :D I think those two videos back to back are brilliant and shows the different levels of information one could hope to get. It's the same everyhwere - you have your layman-knowledge from publicly available books, documentaries and such - then you have your beginners professional knowledge you get in schools and specialised courses - and then you have layers upon layers of ever increasing informations on a subject matter, which expands on or replaces other information.

[@sangwaraumo]

oh yeah!

[@kurnugiakurn3567]

the main problem is that reaction content is not really based on good faith of furthering understanding. Luckily we had a very good exchange. I would love to see the two collab in a more direct way.

[@robertnett9793]

@@kurnugiakurn3567 Yeah. There's unfortunately more than enough reaction-stuff ending up in an emberassing slap-fight. So we should be thankful for those who work out with this level of respect. Overall - we should strive for and demand this level of respect in debates in all situations.

[@Wyster]

Milo your reaction to Dr. Hafford’s criticism was a joy to witness. It’s incredible to see someone so completely open to correction and so willing to alter their stance given new information. I’ve never seen such a lack of toxic ego before, and it makes me respect the hell out of you.

[@helmaschine1885]

23:27 I relate to this reaction so goddamn much. That intense fear of being caught to be wrong by a professor.

[@chelsuh614]

Omg this part had me BUST out laughing. The second hand anxiety 🤣😹🤣

[@SynchronizorVideos]

As a person in a scientific field, I wouldn’t use the term “fear “. While it can be mildly embarrassing to lean hard on a point only to be proven wrong later by a peer, I always welcome being corrected on things. That’ll help me learn and benefit from others’ experience, and experience is an incredibly valuable thing.

[@cerberaodollam]

@@SynchronizorVideos yeah but that's the thing. I *want* to be corrected as an academic....but as a human, I also know that being corrected means mom will beat me to a pulp for being wrong. it's a very conflicted and exhilarating moment.

[@scorch4299]

yeah screw this long-haired noob. im gonna go watch the boomer do it!

[@somedudewithaface3336]

Milo, archaeology has long needed public communicators who understand archaeology but aren't necessarily professional archaeologists. Professionals can sometimes get a little pedantic when communicating with the public so the discipline needs people like you who can bridge the gap. Keep up the good work!

[@iharpo9292]

Yeah like ofc he has a degree and does this professionally but hes very casual about it

[@abiel4222]

That happens unfortunately with a lot of academic areas

[@ThorDude]

​@@abiel4222There's two types of scientists: the psychos who are more than happy to share their work, whether or not someone can understand it. Then there's the busy one: The ones who don't want to split their own work time, and then talk to people who don't even care about their work, then get misinterpreted. We need more psychos who can also speak in simple words about science. If you reach out, psychos will be more than happy to explain science to you.

[@bruhtha3296]

Like the archeology avatar

[@fanfywriter8727]

When a lay person catches me being wrong; extreme embarrassment and anger. When an expert catches my mistake and then tries to enlarge my knowledge; oooh gooooood yes! Glad to see I am not the only one.

[@Dhdjksjsnsnsnnsnsna]

If a layperson catching your mistake infuriates you,,,,,,,,, you need help.

[@krankarvolund7771]

Why do you feel angry and embarassed when someone catch you being wrong? ^^' It happens to me regulary, and generally, it means that either I didn't remembered properly what I was talking about, or they know more than me, either way, I'm wiser than if I've stayed in my errors ^^ I'll trust an expert more than a lay-person of course, but in the end of the day, some experts are wrong, and a lay-person with the right evidence can be right. Trust the evidence, not the persons that brought them ^^

[@olivialahde5485]

@@krankarvolund7771 I think it's about getting angry at yourself for missing an error, not at the person correcting you.

[@krankarvolund7771]

@@olivialahde5485 But then, you would also be angry when an expert corrects you ^^'

[@maxlutz3674]

@@krankarvolund7771 That may depend on the nature of the error. When it´s so obvious that a lay person can catch it, it´s really embarassing. If it´s more subtle, it´s different.

[@wyattsickels499]

Watching this video from about a year after you posted it I can see why you would be so excited. You received a very high quality peer review from someone who is of high esteem in his field who gave you very wonderful information. Corrected a couple of your mistakes. And complemented you in a couple ways. I am in awe for you. I can only imagine how excited you must have felt

[@tomhowell8398]

The batteries could easily still be behind the couch! I worked at Dover Museum as a volunteer, helping to work through damaged records, identify objects, accession things into the collections, etc. If anything happens to the records, nobody will ever know for sure what that museum has again. You could have one in your hand and still only be ~90% sure it's the right object, but more likely you don't even know where to start looking for it. Even a small, local museum has so much stuff of all kinds in so many locations that keeping track of it all is an unending battle at the best of times. We never completely recovered from the main building being bombed in world war 2, so we were still contending with the effects of the historical events depicted in our galleries.

[@svennoren9047]

Very true, and Germany got thoroughly bombed during WW2, with enormous loss of not only lives. For example the original brontosaurus skeleton got completely destroyed.

[@CoincidenceTheorist]

⛺️Man this video is a shilly goose circle jurkhole.

[@CoincidenceTheorist]

11:55. This feels very fake. Contrived

[@hoppytoad79]

Congratulations on attracting Dr. Hafford's attention! His crit was incredibly constructive, thoughtful, insightful, and informative, and it was so cool listening to him explain why it's believed the jars served a ritual purpose. Stay hungry, stay humble, and stay fabulous, Milo.

[@stupidminotaur9735]

Bob Ross was hated/looked down on by most university artist professor's until 80-90% percent of their classes/students were heavily influenced by him to be painters/artists. talking about indian jones alot of young people were influenced by him.

[@Robynhoodlum]

Yup. Can’t stand Indiana Jones or Bob Ross, but if they inspire you, that’s great!

[@mars_ffs]

@@Robynhoodlum oh no what did Bob Ross do😶

[@nidhogg8446]

My archaeology professor once said that to most, Indiana Jones would be the first inspiration that led them to archaeology as a career, then they would spend the next few years learning why he is the Worst Archaeologist

[@Deinobi]

@@Robynhoodlum what's wrong with Bob Ross?

[@MtnNerd]

@@Robynhoodlum Can't we just save the hate for Thomas Kincaid?

[@KaitoLune]

There is just something so calming about two people discussing things they're passionate about (this case, jobs) with such honest mutual respect. This video just radiates pure joy!

[@Lucy-zv4xc]

Here's a tip for holding cats- hold them on their tummy, letting them tuck their front paws under you as if they are loafing, while supporting their back legs. It mimics how they naturally lie down, and most animals I've handled find it very comfortable :) Holding them like a baby disorients them. What a sweet kitten Louie is!

[@RocRolDis]

Most cats hate being cradled. My previous cat, Chloe did. I’ve been fortunate that two out of the past 3 cats I’ve had love to be cradled

[@Touchpadse]

This is why I love science "Ooh someone made a video about what I've said, let's see what they said. Ooh I was wrong, how interesting I'm learning stuff. Thanks for this!". So great to see people not get angry when corrected! Awesome video as always, keep it up!

[@djalexander968]

21:20 this just stepped up from "wow im vaguely surprised and delighted by this guy correcting and informing us" to "i want him to co-host awful archaeology now"

[@AncientArchitects]

Miniminuteman reacts to a professor who reacts to Miniminuteman 😂 Great video. 👏 (Still watching)

[@owngamesgamer4030]

cat : *is being cute, enjoying themselves* -> *falls of the bed* -> *proceeds to eat a candle* this is a quintessential cat

[@PascalOPM]

I love that you said what you said about Indiana Jones. We’ve lived in a world where he has always existed and while it’s very obviously inaccurate as an adventure film, I think it’s a useful point of reference as well

[@kyetes.866]

He’s also an important character for Milo, a science & archaeology communicator, to incorporate into his content targeting the (younger) general public. We can see he’s very deliberate in how he presents his information and humor, and he’s always thinking about how to make these topics accessible to people who would otherwise not be super invested. It’s a very different kind of communication than academic communication.

[@alicethemad1613]

I don’t even understand why every time you got excited about being complimented or talked about I also flapped my hands and said OOOOOOOO really loud. I’m so happy to have watched this channel grow from the start and I’m absolutely hyped if this turns into a long term collaborative conversation.

[@oblivious-owl6914]

Working on my master's thesis this semester, and was feeling a bit anxious about it and putting off what I'd been meaning to do today. Watching this discussion and celebration of research has helped me get hyped back up for my own research, and make my curiosity outweigh my stress, so I'm definitely going to go back into my own thesis work when I've finished watching this :]

[@MrDicehead]

Having the humility to post this and take the criticism so well shows how much you care about archeology. Loved this video

[@Trevor21230]

This is super wholesome and I'm so here for it. Also the stuff about the demon-trapping bowls and the jars being used as implements for spellcasting was absolutely fascinating!

[@final_catalyst]

Especially when you realize the jars seem to actually be repurposed after being damaged for this function, potentially. (no longer haveing the neck/handle etc) it makes more sense

[@KS-PNW]

Feel like there's room for a cool DND class based off that

[@danafox9659]

Hi Milo, When trying to research things behind paywalls, if possible, reach out to the author or the institute who originally published. A lot of times, they'll send them to you via email without a problem. Most researchers dont receive compensation from the paywall owners and are interested in getting info out there. I've gotten so many papers this way. I've also reached out to museums and gotten the records for specific artefacts - archaeological reports, research reports, conservation reports, exhibition reports, etc. This has been so useful to me in my previous career as a museologist and researcher. Love what you do! ❤

[@regiergal]

The discussion about buried blessing jars made me think of a local tradition here where if you want to sell your house, you bury a statue of St. Joseph in your yard. When my parents bought their house they dug up like three or four 😂

[@matthewsteigauf470]

I hope that overtime this channel has the same level of impact on edu-tainment that Sam Onella did. Man set the standard for facts and narrative broken up by relevant cutaway gags that enforce the newly introduced fact. You bring a conversation / community aspect that really reflects the debate face of academia that I don't think most people get. By reacting to peers, debunking bs articles, and translating the academic back and forth you really show off the "scholars are still debating this" line that most places gloss over. Keep up the fantastic work!

[@seekerstheshy3842]

as much as i do miss sam's content, this has very nicely filled that void in my heart

[@tatjanakragh1539]

with so much hate on social media, this video is a reminder that we can have civilized conversation and not feel like everyone is an enemy. this video ROCKS! Cheers

[@TealVillian]

I was never "on the fence" about whether these things were true or false. But I HAD had them presented to me as facts, with very little background info. Having the full story is SO important. People who don't want to dig into research and backgrounds etc. can find the facts all in one place. (Also, hey from East Providence)

[@trs4184]

One of the high points of my life was when I ended up in a conversation with a "9/11 skeptic" the day after I read the whole 9/11 wikipedia page (as you do). I had The Facts and even remembered a lot of the times and details. When he said, "but how do you explain the Secret Service building that fell down the same day several blocks away" I could immediately say, "Oh you must be talking about Building 7, which was hit by pieces of the collapsing North Tower and burned over the course of several hours." I don't know if his mind was changed at all, but there were other people there and I know some of them have some conspiratorial impulses. It's nice to have answers.

[@lauramatilda3279]

I have to say your ability to take well formulated and respectful criticism well is admirable. I really liked the way that you respectfully responded to the response video and it made me smile that you might have made a friend in the archaeologist you were speaking to as well as having found a new role model in the world of archaeology. These are the kind of interactions that we need to see more of in the world.

[@pyingst]

Literally the only time I’ve watched a reaction to a reaction and come away NOT cursing the human condition. Thank you both!

[@sapphic_sophie]

Milo, if you could only preserve a few specific artifacts of your life to represent you to future archeologists, what would you pick?

[@DrewLSsix]

Obviously the laptop for one...

[@thesquidmaster9378]

Ur mom

[@ebarobyre2720]

His skull would be a good artefact too, can get a lot of information from an intact skull

[@arnoldjohnson3317]

A girls hair thingy.

[@onbearfeet]

The various bone-themed jewelry items (Toumai ring, etc.) and his Otzi tattoos for sure... Oh, boy. Milo's gonna try to get buried in a bog, isn't he?

[@emilieisaway1]

I love that you sat down and reacted to this, I probably wouldn’t have seen it otherwise. It really shows that all you aim to do is educate your audience and make sure we get the right information. Respect to you!

[@Creature_of_Knight]

This is probably the friendliest, most professional, and educational game of KZbin ping pong I've ever seen. We love to see it!

[@rhys4567]

I took a class in college about metaphysical beings (especially in regards to Ancient Near East religions and beliefs) and we learned about the curses and bowls and it is so cool seeing other people learn about them as well! A big part of the curses (and blessings/wardings) was being as specific as possible in regards to the subject, what you want to happen to them, and who you're calling upon to enact your will. We read a couple of articles with many transcriptions of such incantations and now I need to see if I can find them again!

[@Treethinking666]

I have zero research credintials, nor have I been shown the proper directions on how to do researching as a totally effective person for finding the best answers possible. I love how, when faced with incomplete evidence and/or not having the totality of more factual information (which sucks that much of these resources are behind walls of some sort, can be discouraging for some). I really think there should be some levels of "hoops" to jump through, to get proper access to these resources. Would allow and open up the scientific community's ability to the public. Libraries are a great resource as well. I seriously love the appreciation of getting new and more information about his video with more and better information. I love Milo, he's quickly becoming one of my favorite KZbin personalities!!!!

[@wolfiemuse]

It’s cute to me how the kitty cat (Lou?) is watching Milo’s computer with him. My cat loves to watch videos, we keep a quiet TV going in the spare bedroom for her with colorful videos ❤ great video! Super nice to see you react to a professional archaeologist’s view of your video in a respectful and academic matter from both sides, both his side and yours are respectful

[@drawer111]

I’ve accidentally made a battery by drinking iced lime water out of a stainless steel insulated cup. Touching my tongue to the edge of the cup while drinking out of it and getting the mild sensation of licking a 9v battery was pretty bewildering the first time. I pulled out my multimeter and measured 350mV, then even dimly lit up an LED. This PROVES BEYOND CERTAINTY that the jars were batteries and were used to power ancient lights 🎉 (/s)

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Now we only have to find the wiring to connect them to egypt :D

[@pembertr0n]

@@HappyBeezerStudios No see they used uh... really thin sticks of ice instead of wire, so that's why we can't find them. They all melted.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

@@pembertr0n oh those genius ancient people, they had superconductors

[@phantomstarsx9343]

This is what I love about discussing sciences. Sometimes you get things wrong, and this kind of civil discourse is soooo refreshing. Thank you for showing this and talking about it!

[@KatieeBug445]

I'm over a year late to this video, but Milo is right on about Indiana Jones being a huge inspiration. When I was growing up, my favorite movies were Jurassic Park, The Mummy, and Indiana Jones, and all of those films sparked such a deep and passionate love for paleontology and archaeology that has stuck with me my entire life. I wasn't able to go to college so I wasn't able to pursue those passions, but those have always been my first love thanks to the movies. It's just like Jaws inspiring people to become marine biologists. The power of cinema can be a beautiful thing, and it has the ability to inspire people to follow their passions and help the future be a better place.

[@freshprinceoffrance754]

I love this so much, Milo and Hafford are so respectful and two people educated on the subject and adding onto eachother

[@CDN_Bookmouse]

The feeling of finding out one of your profs is super cool and smart and then desperately craving their approval REALLY took me back X'D

[@SomeOnlinePerson]

I don't think I've ever come across you or your stuff before, but I have to say that watching you and how you were talking everything was absolutely adorable. Also felt sort of reassuring to see someone speaking so positively about people correcting each other even on seemingly-minor details. Here's to hoping you and Dr. Hafford do get to share a drink some day. :)

[@ossifiedwallaby5009]

I can't tell you how scared I was during the first few minutes. So many KZbinrs end up being not the best people and I was so afraid he wouldn't take criticism 😅. Thank you for not being your average online personally!

[@RocRolDis]

The way Milo just lit up when Hafford made the drink was amazing. ❤️

[@coffeezombie6032]

I am seriously amazed by the intelligent and kind conversations that happen among people in the same field. It's great to see everyone correcting and adding to each other's research without being rude or disrespectful. We definitely need more of this in the world.

[@MattFromHawaii]

This actually reminds me of a "witch's bottle". Kind of the same concept; you put 'metal' into a closed bottle, and bury it. There's more intricate details into what you do in preparing said 'bottle', like adding in your DNA, but you also have to add something sharp, and most people have added in metal nails. Mostly lead I'm sure. Some even say spells before burying it, as you have to bury the bottle. I've seen them done and prepared in different ways, mainly in the UK.

[@DavidSmith-vr1nb]

The nails were iron. Needles could also be used but I think some importance was attached to iron. Also, a nail made from lead would be almost useless.

[@theminerwithin9316]

When I was listening to you talk about the Baghdad Battery, the first thought that came to mind was that it was originally used for ceremonial purposes, because to the ancient people, electricity would seem like magic. I also love how you sound like a giddy child who is being praised by their idol. It's adorable, and it shows how much you love your job.

[@chaconut6431]

I love how open to criticism you are and how you admit when you got something wrong instead of making a whole big show or some shit out of it. I think it goes to show that you are a reliable source because even though you may make mistakes (we all do) you address those mistakes and try to correct them or admit you made them

[@PosthumanHeresy]

5:52 No, inoculating the masses against misinformation is SO IMPORTANT!! The "it's pointless" mindset forgets all the people watching it go down.

[@joonzville]

The Romans were still inscribing curses and prayers on to thin lead sheets and throwing them into springs, streams, wells, etc even centuries later! (I used to watch Time Team and they found, translated and explained the lead rolls on a couple of digs.)

[@Late0NightPC]

The conversation about the bowl trapping demons reminded me of a sort of similar ritual performed in a lot of other cultures, and even still to this day though it's now done as part of architecture and "aesthetic". Things like Gargoyles were placed on buildings to practically serve as a waterspout to redirect rain from pooling around a building, but they were dressed up as animals and monsters to "scare away other monsters". If a demon was going to come to that building, the terrible monsters sitting atop the walls would scare the demon away and protect the place. Similarly, in ancient Greece, Medusa/the Gorgon was considered to be a symbol of protection and safety. While most myths say that after decapitating her Perseus gave her head to Athena to put on her shield, leading to many shields being painted with her head to invoke that same protective ability of Athena's shield, according to the writer Pausanias, there's a variant of the story where instead her head was buried beneath the city of Argos, Perseus' birth town. So some homes and temples would depict the head of the Gorgon nearby doorways to "scare away monsters" due to how fearsome the head of the Gorgon was known to be. Both legends show the same thing, apotropaic magic. Apotropaic magic is "magical rituals" performed to ward away evil in some form, and range from stuff like what I listed, with using a terrifying monster to scare away other monsters, to using depictions of powerful gods/spirits instead, to plain old good luck charms like telling someone to "break a leg", hoping for something bad to happen to them so that "luck" causes something good to happen instead, or crossing your fingers for good luck. It's yet another example of how so many different cultures came to the same sorts of ideas independently of each other, not because there was some massive ancient globe spanning empire that broke apart into all the current groups, but because we are all ultimately human, so we look at the same problems, and come up with similar solutions. If you know about a scary monster that can be controlled, and other scary monsters that can't be controlled but want to eat you, use the former to protect yourself from the latter.

[@thataceguy7437]

I know I'm a little late to the party, but as someone studying the sciences myself, try reaching out to the authors of the papers! Sometimes, if they're not bound by an agreement with the publishers, they'll be happy to provide you with a copy. It can be a really good way to sidestep paywalls and get those primary sources!

[@handsoapinc]

12:30 Another area in which we're painfully aware of this, closely related to Anthropology, is Linguistics. As a Linguist it's always important to be aware of the checkered past the field has had, and how it had been used to justify some pretty heinous ideologies.

[@jacobpshappy]

You can never go wrong with a sequel

[@jojom.9545]

Star Wars begs to differ ^^

[@killerbug05]

Tlou2

[@friendlyneighborhoodasexual]

@@jojom.9545 true

[@martinthedrainedsedlak]

@@jojom.9545 World wars as well

[@phoenix0166]

Disney begs to differ

[@537monster]

Your cat is the perfect kind of talkative. She just does that weird chattering thing instead of full on death scream like some cats do when they want something.

[@N0pleaseN0]

I love how vocal my cat is but everybody else finds her annoying because she kind of sounds like a screeching demon... My husband calls her the "death metal seagull" Cats don't usually meow to each other so it's sweet of them to make an attempt at communication, even if it makes our ears bleed :')

[@GeoGamerArtistVlogger]

@@N0pleaseN0 DEATH METAL SEAGULL LMAO

[@coolcutiekitti17]

For now… it’s still a kitten… who knows what kind of demon noises it can learn as it matures

[@26th_Primarch]

I had a calico that me and my mother rescued since she was abandoned at 2-3 weeks old and we always talked to her, when she had her first litter she was constantly talking to them and us in a manner where it sounds like she was trying her best to enuciate the syllables of actual words in literal sentences.

[@537monster]

@@26th_Primarch they actually do that sometimes. They feel the need to mimic the sounds that people make. Idk why, but it apparently happens.

[@davidwalter2002]

Your respect for the scientific method is admirable. It's so refreshing to see people respectfully disagree, present counter-arguments backed up by facts, and to see a revision in the thinking. This will save us.

[@BarbarosaAlexander]

The ability to adapt and admit fault in the face of new evidence is science's greatest strength. Thank you for such a clear example of exactly that. Bravo, sir!

[@moonshadow4276]

I love how gentle and kind they are in reacting to each other. This channel is EASILY a new favourite of mine

[@neutronstarlord5716]

As a physicist i must say that i totally agree that it feels amazing to addressed an as equal by peers in your field who have a higher degree (not that the degree guarantees their accuracy or intelligence in the field) and hiding data and discovery behind paywalls is the most obnoxious and insane BS since we are meant to be sharing information and not hording it. cant say I fancy playing in the dirt like a child in a sandbox but you do you lol I enjoy the content just as much as i do for other fields than my own.

[@geoffreyporter7567]

Oh my god, the unbridled joy and positivity in this video makes me so happy. I’m smiling like an idiot through the whole damn thing

[@odin_191]

Same. It’s so contagious

[@smk4224]

This is not the first time I realize that science, history (and probably archeology) is not black/white (true/false), its a process. Watching videos from two academics in a KZbin discord is shining bright light on this hyped ancient battery story. Thanks to both of you.

[@selencia7312]

Happy to see just 4 days after this video is posted that Dr. Hafford's channel has gone up to 12k subscribers and I know, thanks to my introduction to him through this video, that I am also one of those new subscribers. I hope more professionals can engage with Milo in the future and enlighten us all with their excellent commentary.

[@sarahferguson0]

Me too! I immediately went to his channel 🙂

[@worldwartanker4542]

Just so you know, I just subscribed to Artifactually speaking. And the screenshot of his follower count on your video has doubled as of right now. You're getting those curious minds of your followers to look to others to understand and learn more archeology! That's pretty sick man, keep it up!

[@mopanda81]

this video is an excellent example of WHY it’s important to challenge conspiracies so that people can share valuable and rare information and have that information reach wider audiences. Dr Hafford’s exploration of the original german source, that english dig, and pointing out that museums in germany have some of the jars and did publish on them in the 80s is so crucial to the confused and limited information open to the wider public.

[@rockinbobokkin7831]

I wasn't aware of the Dr. until soon after your Battery video, I randomly came upon his response. I was nervous to click it at first, but I took a chance and was greatly rewarded. Even better to see a dialogue form. I like seeing a community of archeology buffs beginning to form here. It's tough work to debunk the years of History channel disinformation.

[@uncannedspaghetti]

I had the same experience! I’ve enjoyed watching this discourse unfold ☺️

[@KenBarberGeek]

I'm glad you reacted to his video. You showed a lot of respect for his opinions Milo. Also, it's nice to feel a part of the professional community isn't it? I think this interaction was great.

[@HECKproductions]

i think we should collectively stop calling it a battery first of all because it is not the thing that we mean when we colloquially say battery (eg a device that has one of more cells that store energy chemically in a way that can be used to create a voltage with which to unitilize electrical energy) and secondly because if anything it would be a cell and a battery is an array of more than one cell

[@wiltaylor]

Wow! Peer review on a youtube channel. Amazing!! Good work both of you. I want you to know you have both changed my mind. I watched all eight ancient apocalypse and was a Graham Hancock fan. he's a great writer. But I see there is a lot to be learned from actual archaeologists that I had not considered. Thanks!!

[@philmccraken]

When he started talking about the spells and the bowls, I was blown away. His knowledge is so useful and I loved the way he didn’t try to correct you but just added more amazing information!

[@Gunbudder]

i love this channel so much. its like a fully formed, high quality History or Discovery channel show just appeared on youtube. never sell your show to a network! you will always make more money independently!

[@annafdd]

My higher functions: oooh very interesting and superior interactions between genuine geeks, such good role models! My limbic system: CAT! LOOK AT THE CAT! OMG HE’S SLOW BLINKING! AWWWWWWW.

[@verylostdoommarauder]

I so relate to the "Waiting to get the feedback from your teacher" thing.

[@cinnamonwarrior3212]

My 4th period science teacher has the most judging stare ever

[@CostCoSettlementCheck]

I rescued a neighborhood kitty some months ago after not owning a cat for years and the back-and-forth at the beginning with Lou is something I feel deeply in my soul

[@ruthlesace]

Gotta love the amount of respect given between these two. Allot of people who go through this sort of thing are often disparaging to each other

[@carlrambow1277]

never heard that they had paper or used as spell jars for curses or protection. also never heard of the prayer bowels included with the findings. everyone WANTS them to be batteries and then never looks deeper for context. thanks for this update Milo.

[@spacelemur7955]

I am impressed that Milo aired the professor's feedback in such good spirits. 👍 Auch wenn man sich mit der Archäologie des Nahen Ostens beschäftigt, ist es eine gute Idee, Deutsch lesen zu können.

[@Blue-is-great-color]

Da stimme is dir zu!

[@spacelemur7955]

@@Blue-is-great-color Vor zwei Wochen waren wir (endlich) auf der Museumsinsel. Ein fantastischer Ort, unglaubliche Museen, und die Berliner ließen mich sogar höflich mein schlecht gesprochenes Deutsch üben!🥰🍻😉🇺🇦🇸🇪🇩🇪

[@Blue-is-great-color]

Geil! Ich war bis jetzt nur einmal kurz in Berlin. Ich muss da mal bald wieder hin. Egal ich bin Muttersprachler und ich wette mal dein Deutsch ist besser als meins lol 😆🍻 🫶🏼

[@flecki5908]

Definitiv!

[@unheilbargut]

Just found your channel (some videos ago) and now am hooked. This video here is just awesome and it shows the light side of internet communities. Not all are horrific hell holes, some are precious, informative and spark more curiosity. Great stuff and many greetings from Germany.

[@QueenOfNoMansLand]

Omfg I felt the struggle when he mentioned not being enrolled in a university and how hard it was to get primary sources! I miss my library so much!